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Red Hat Software Businesses Operating Systems Software

Fedora Core 2 Test 3 Released 287

Posted by timothy from the try-it-out dept.
Wee writes "I just got an email from Bill Nottingham of Red Hat letting me know that the third and final test release of Fedora Core 2 is now available. The announcement mentions the big changes are SELinux being disabled by default, that on-and-off problem with install CD1 not booting should be fixed, and anaconda now is sporting 31 languages. The mirrors look like they are opening slowly but surely, and bug reports are always appreciated."
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Fedora Core 2 Test 3 Released More

Fedora Core 2 Test 3 Released

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  • Please use BitTorrent!!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chester K ( 145560 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:45PM (#8991264) Homepage
    FC2-test3-binary-i386.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for i386. 2.1GB 2004-4-27

    FC2-test3-src-i386.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 source iso images for i386. 2.0GB 2004-4-27

    FC2-test3-binary-x86_64.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for x86_64. 2.1GB 2004-4-27

    FC2-test3-src-x86_64.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 source iso images for x86_64. 1.9GB 2004-4-27

    FC2-test3-x86_64-DVD.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 DVD iso image for x86_64. 4.0GB 2004-4-27

    FC2-test3-i386-DVD.torrent [duke.edu] Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 DVD iso image for i386. 4.1GB 2004-4-27

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:47PM (#8991284)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:What about X? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Spoing ( 152917 )
      Did you update from XFree to X.org? There were some hassles for me on another card (Nvidia) that likely would not be an issue on a "clean" install (guessing).

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:15PM (#8991558)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:What about X? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm having the same issue with my Radeon 9600. Hardlocked Core 1.
    • Hope they get the problems with the drivers for ATI Radeon cards sorted out.

      Same with NVidia. NVidia's drivers don't work with fedora's 2.6.5 kernel. You compile the drivers, and then when you try and startx, the system locks up (totally locks up, if you're sshed into the box you'll find it frozen).

    • Re:What about X? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by juhaz ( 110830 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:19PM (#8992502) Homepage
      Nothing much they could do about it.

      XFree86 4.3.0 FC1 was using came out 26.2.2003, and Radeon 9600 and 9800 series later that year (9800XT not until november, I believe) so it couldn't support them out-of-the-box because they didn't exist when the relevant X version was made.

      Since this one will be using the much more recent X.org server based on XFree 4.4.0, yes, it should work fine now.

    • Re:What about X? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bruthasj ( 175228 )
      It was a framebuffer issue in the early versions of the 2.6 kernel. For example, under 2.6.2-1.156 the ATI cards framebuffer would be blank during boot if you passed in parameters to run at a higher resolution.

      I'm not sure which kernel FC2 will eventually run, but under 2.6.5-1.332 which is the latest from arjan, the ATI framebuffer now works and the nice Penguin Crony can be seen again.

  • Red Hat (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PeaceTank ( 758859 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:51PM (#8991314)
    Ever since Red Hat died (sob) i've been kind of up in the air on distro's. I'm currently running Debian, but I decided that I'm going to at least try Fedora. I've tried Test 2, and overall, I was impressed. Other than the fact that they still have mp3 support disabled, it's a great distro. Still it lacks the amazing 'apt-get' feature that makes me love debian. I do like that it comes with Gnome pre-installed, since gnome can be a real pain to install otherwise, and the 2.6 kernel is nice. Wish somebody would just combine debian and Fedora and make the uber distro with a beatiful graphical installer like Fedora, and all the power of apt-get like Debian. For now, though, I'll just have to wait.

    • Re:Red Hat (Score:5, Informative)

      by Professor Cool Linux ( 759581 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:55PM (#8991346) Homepage
      you can have apt-get for fedora...
      http://www.fedora.us/wiki/FedoraHOWTO
      http://www.brandonhutchinson.com/Fedora_apt_and_yu m_repositories.html

      • Re:Red Hat (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mcrbids ( 148650 )
        How well does apt-get for RPM compare with apt-get for Debian?

        Are they really comparable?

        As a user of yum on FC1, I'd really like to know. Why did I choose yum? Mainly because somebody I know used it and liked it, so I tried it, and liked it so much I set up my own yum repository mirror.

        Does using apt-get really offer any benefit over yum? Doesn't apt-get simply mine the same RPM repositories surveyed when doing updates with yum?

        Any intelligent response would be highly appreciated.

        • Re:Red Hat (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          As far as you're concerned, apt and yum do the same job. If you are happy with yum, then there's little point in switching.

          my experience: I found it quite easy to persuade apt to restart downloads when my 56k modem (yuck!) disconnected -- so I can just apt-get upgrade and leave it alone -- yum wouldn't do that and I had to sit watching it (a bastard if you are upgrading 100Mb of OpenOffice).

          Setting up your own yum repo was a lot easier though. Apt was very messy in that regard.

    • Re:Red Hat (Score:5, Informative)

      by IpsissimusMarr ( 672940 ) * on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:01PM (#8991415) Journal
      An RPM build of apt-get for Fedora is available at FreshRPMS [freshrpms.net]. You can also install Synaptic [freshrpms.net] which is a graphical GUI for apt-get.
      Its all there for ya.

    • Re:Red Hat (Score:5, Informative)

      by rgmoore ( 133276 ) * <glandauer@charter.net> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:29PM (#8991665) Homepage

      apt is available for Fedora, though it isn't included in the install. You can download it from Fedora.us [fedora.us], which also has some instructions on configuring it. You might also want to consider using yum, which is included by default. yum's capabilities are very similar to apt's, including all the good stuff like automatically resolving and downloading dependencies, so it's definitely worth learning. I find that yum is good enough that the first thing I do when installing Fedora is to disable up2date.

    • Still it lacks the amazing 'apt-get' feature that makes me love debian.

      What makes yum less amazing than 'apt-get'? They appear to do the same thing.

      • Re:Red Hat (Score:3, Interesting)

        by pyros ( 61399 )
        What makes yum less amazing than 'apt-get'? They appear to do the same thing.

        As lame as it might sound to say, a graphical front-end like synaptic is what makes apt better, in my opinion. On a headless server it doesn't make a difference, but when I'm using my desktop, I don't want to fire up a shell and su to root (or setup sudo). I just want a nice pointy/clicky app to do package management. And no, system-config-packages doesn't cut it, it can't handle dependencies for anything not in the official Fedor

        • I just want a nice pointy/clicky app to do package management.

          Perfectly understandable. up2date on fedora uses yum as its backend... and it's all pointy/clicky. Even has an applet that turns red when there are new packages.
          • Perfectly understandable. up2date on fedora uses yum as its backend... and it's all pointy/clicky. Even has an applet that turns red when there are new packages.

            yeah, but that only does updates. I can't launch it to install new applications or remove installed ones. At least, I don't know of a way to. Personally I configure up2date with the same set of sources as apt (up2date supports apt repositories), and use the applet to know when an update is available. I usually just use up2date-gnome to apply the up

          • The GUI for up2date lacks the ability to install new packages, but apart from that it's quite nice, yes.

      • Re:Red Hat (Score:3, Informative)

        by AstroDrabb ( 534369 ) *
        Yum lacks a GUI front-end, apt has synaptic, which makes searching through 1,000's of packages much easier. Also, apt is about 100x faster them yum. Try to install about 50 packages with yum and you wil see what I mean. I tried to install about 100 packages with yum and it took about 15 minutes just to hanlde the dependencies before it even started to install anything! Trying the same 100 packages with apt, the dependencies were done in about 20 seconds before the install started. I think the only reas

    • Re:Red Hat (Score:3, Funny)

      by asciiRider ( 154712 )
      This always cracks me up. Millions of hours of work go into an open source unix - and some idiot complains about not having mp3 support available out of the box.

  • Languages (Score:5, Funny)

    by FenwayFrank ( 680269 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:52PM (#8991322)
    and anaconda now is sporting 31 languages.
    Including "redneck"?

    • for the redneck impared (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @11:01PM (#8992830)
      Announcin' th' third tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2

      * Fum: Billy Joe Nottin'ham
      * To: fedo'a-announce-list redhat com
      * Cc:
      * Subjeck: Announcin' th' third tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2
      * Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:36:11 -0400

      "Eff'n ah's curt wif yo', it's on account o' time is a facko'. ah reckon

      fast, ah type fast, an' ah need yo' guys t'ack fast eff'n yo' want

      t'git th' bess outta this. So, purdy please, wif sugar on

      top, try th' tess release!"

      Yessuh, it's time fo' th' third an' final tess release of Fedo'a Co'e 2.

      Notable changes in this hyar release include:

      - SELinux is now disabled by default. Eff'n yo'd like t'install wif

      SELinux suppo't, pass 'selinux' t'th' installer. Bug repo'ts about

      th' behavio' an' suppo't of SELinux is sartinly still welcome; we is

      still wawkin' on it.

      - Th' 'CD1 won't boot' issue appears t'be resolved, cuss it all t' tarnation. Enny repo'ts of

      corntinued failure is sartinly appreesheeated, cuss it all t' tarnation.

      - Please check th' included translashuns fo' co'reckness an' sanity.

      Anaconda now installs in 31 languages.

      -----
      Thank you and have a pleasant tomorrow.

  • Exclusion of SELinux as a default? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Coryoth ( 254751 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:53PM (#8991327) Homepage Journal
    Anyone know exactly what the issues with SELinux by default were? Having SELinux, or something equivalent system using the LSM kernel module as a default is the way that Linux should e heading - it would dramatically increase the security of Linux systems. I was looking forward to Fedora Core 2 being the first to include it by default, and anticipating other distributions making the move in the near future.

    Jedidiah.

    • Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default? (Score:5, Informative)

      by justsomebody ( 525308 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:06PM (#8991477) Journal
      Yeah, this is a simple matter of lacking time.

      Inclusion is one thing, hard core implementation is another. SELinux is not click RPM and install.

      SELinux is a set of policies that define how your system is acting basing on actual happenings. To put it simply, take it as system account ACL-s (maybe I put it wrong but that was the only way to describe it as simple thing).

      One month most probably isn't enough time to implement more than trivial policies that actualy take your system trough correct workout. Expect FC3 to be the first one with correct settings. FC2 can be but probably settings will depend on you
      • Yeah, this is a simple matter of lacking time.

        Thanks. I was aware that writing and implementing a default policy that was going to work well is a non trivial task - I wasn't aware how far they had progressed with that. It soudns like enough people had prolems with the policy settings etc. in Test2 that it is being delayed. As long as it is going to be folded in properly once all the quirks have been sorted out I'm happy.

        Jedidiah.

    • Fedora team needs a lot of time to integrate SELinux well. Test 2 release was horrible horrible mess. When SELinux locked me out of my own box that is when I decided to format the partition and never touch Test 2 Fedora again.

      I am downloading Test 3 and hoping that it is better.
    • Anyone know exactly what the issues with SELinux by default were?

      Perhaps it had something to do with problems experienced by people like me that just went with the default install, and were greeted with pages upon pages of security violations just trying to start init.

    • Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default? (Score:4, Informative)

      by pyros ( 61399 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:59PM (#8991938) Journal
      Well, the default disabled status of SELinux isn't truly disabled as you might think it is. I forget what the implementation is, but it is still there, I think along the lines of set to allow everything with no policy in place. SELinux is a huge part of FC2, but it's proven to be so freaking difficult to integrate with anything resembling a standard policy that they have to disable it by default or you will have an unusable system out of the box. And I say this as an apologetic RH fanboy. They will enable it by default when it doesn't break everything for 90% of the users.

    • Re:Exclusion of SELinux as a default? (Score:5, Informative)

      by LnxAddct ( 679316 ) <sgk25@drexel.edu> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:04PM (#8991977)
      SELinux may be a bit too secure and/or complicated for those not familiar with it. By introducing it as an option, those who know about it and/or are willing to mingle with it can. I mean its possible to lock yourself out of your system even if you have root access, itd take quite a bit of rebooting(probably into knoppix) or reinstalling the system to get access to your system if you messed anything up. I can't comment on the stability of the SE patches but I would assume they are stable conidering that the NSA put them together, but if they aren't stable it may be causing trouble as well.
      Regards,
      Steve
      P.S. If any of you are trying out fedora and prefer the ReiserFS file system just pass reiserfs to the kernel at boot. For those who don't know, ReiserFS is a journaling file system that is very stable, very fast, and has the best recovery that I've seen yet. It is also funded by DARPA as well as a few other secret donators.

  • Differences from Core 1 (Score:4, Interesting)

    by thpdg ( 519053 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:53PM (#8991329) Journal
    Does anyone have the URL to the list of differences from Core 1?
    Thanks!

    • Re:Differences from Core 1 (Score:5, Informative)

      by prockcore ( 543967 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:23PM (#8992138)
      I don't know of a URL, but I'm running Core 2 on both my powerbook and my desktop.

      Here's the most obvious changes I've seen:

      Kernel 2.6.5 instead of 2.4.22
      Gnome 2.6 instead of 2.4
      x.org instead of XFree86
      Mozilla 1.6
      SELinux (although it's been turned off)

      and upgraded versions of gcc, python, glibc, and a most other software.

      Also instead of redhat-config-* it's all system-config now.

  • SELinux is a big step forward. (Score:4, Informative)

    by hey ( 83763 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:55PM (#8991347) Journal
    There will be lots of problems with SELinux but it
    is a giant forward for fine-grained security!
    No doubt there will be quite a few initial problems with it.
    • You're absolutely right. The problem is mainly the psychological one of not having a true "superuser" any more, but rather having realms and mini-superusers within those realms.


      That's a big shift, especially if you're used to running everything as root. (A big no-no, but most Linux users are guilty of it anyway, because it's convenient at times.)


      There are also no texts out there on how to use SE-Linux, making it a foreign object to people installing from cold.

      • There are also no texts out there on how to use SE-Linux

        ??? fedora.redhat.com has links to various books and howto-s. Just look under the question What is SELinux
      • especially if you're used to running everything as root. (A big no-no, but most Linux users are guilty of it anyway, because it's convenient at times.)

        I was not aware most of us run Lindows^WLinspire :). On a more serious note, I normally just add admins to the wheel group and allow the group members sudo access.

  • SELinux, et al (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@ y a hoo.com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @07:56PM (#8991363) Homepage Journal
    First, if SELinux is now disabled by default, then presumably it was enabled by default before. Hopefully with all the relevent patches to all relevent packages being applied!


    However, this would result in a system very different from one that most Linux users would be used to. It would also be very different from any system described by any manual or textbook out there. MAC (Mandatory Access Controls) do strange things to the way systems work.


    Now, those strange things happen to be Very Good Things, if you're wanting a secure system. They are also very disconcerting things, if you're wanting a very usable system.


    Fedora's now on 4 CDs - yeesh! And the mirror I saw only showed source ISOs, no binary ISOs. That makes it hard to test such things as install routines.


    Now, 4 CDs isn't too bad, when you consider that a comprehensive system would have nearer 100 CDs in it!


    For those who don't believe me, here is a quick-n-dirty guide to some of the things you are missing:

    • Scenery to FlightGear. This takes at least 2 CDs on its own!
    • Various additional compilers and interpreters. eg: Occam, Intercal, BCPL, Cobol, etc. Now, arguably these aren't really in widespread use, but we're talking comprehensive, not practical.
    • Alternative web/ftp servers. There are lots of these!
    • A hard real-time kernel, eg: Linux with RTAI.
    • Network routers, such as Click and PIMd
    • Berlin
    • Distributed systems code, such as a MOSIX kernel, a Beowulf kernel, Cactus, PVM/MPI, Globus, COSM, etc.
    • FreeVMS (Another kernel patch!)
    • The first 200 billion decimal places of Pi


    The list is extensive. And, yes, all those would be valuable to someone. Even Pi.


    So, I suppose that although 4 CDs seems a lot, it's actually a lot better than it could be.

    • Was SELinux even included before? It could well be that this is the first time that it's been included, and it's disabled by default as a "safety measure". When you're feeling experimental, you can try installing with it enabled, and that will help any bugs be tracked down, without discomforting the users that don't want to be experimented on quite THAT vigorously.

    • Now, 4 CDs isn't too bad, when you consider that a comprehensive system would have nearer 100 CDs in it!

      A comprehensive what system? Redhat is really not designed to be anything other than a workstation or server. It's way too much system to be an efficient firewall or router, or to be a RTOS.

      As for your first 200 billion decimal places of Pi, it would probably be faster to generate them than to load them from CD.

      Saying that four CDs isn't a lot because it could be 100 CDs is like saying that br

  • Works well. If you have test 2 installed, and have used Uptodate in the last few days, you're probably close if not using test 3.
    • That isn't entirely true. In the development tree, packages will sometimes go backwards in version (i.e. from 1.1-1 to 1.0.5-2). When you just continue to do updates, you won't get such packages updated unless you manually track them down and use "rpm --oldpackage". This has happened with several packages lately IIRC.

      Also, part of the point of the test release is to test the installer (and booting disc1 :-) ). Since some of the defaults (i.e. SELinux) have changed in the installer, you don't have a "r

  • BitTorrent (Score:5, Funny)

    by kick_in_the_eye ( 539123 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:07PM (#8991480) Homepage
    Great, only 675 hours to go! I Guess test 4 will be out by then.

    • Re:BitTorrent (Score:3, Informative)

      by karevoll ( 630350 )

      There will be no Fedora Core 2 Test 4. The next release will be Fedora Core 2. :-) You can see their release-schedule by clikcing here [redhat.com].


  • In Test 2 and in Fedora Core 1, I could never get the "Lock screen" feature to work.

    Did anybody else experience that?

    It is a minor annoyance and not a big deal.

  • Sparc 32 port (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheRealMindChild ( 743925 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @08:22PM (#8991617) Homepage Journal
    I started porting this to sparc 32 as a kind of contribution to the Aurora Linux [auroralinux.org] project, but damn is that tedious. I dont even know of a distro that has an up to date port for sparc 32... except maybe gentoo, and I still think it lags behind a little.
    • Is debian-sparc out of date, and if so, how? (I wouldn't know.. just curious.)
    • Yeah, as someone who is about acquire a gently used (when it fell of the truck, it didn't hit the floor) Sun-420R, suddenly I wasn't all that thrilled with my options. Having lived thru it with an old Cobalt Qube 2, I'll figure something out, but gentoo was about all that looked like it wasn't going to be an exercise in futility.

  • Oxymoron-ad (Score:5, Funny)

    by loconet ( 415875 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:23PM (#8992137) Homepage
    This while I get a big fat flash ad from Microsoft telling [microsoft.com] me that mainframe Linux was found to be 10 times more expensive than Windows 2003

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