Ask About the Iraqi LUG 375
Yes, there is a Linux Users Group in Iraq. When it was first mentioned on Slashdot it only had two members. It's grown a little since then, as has The Iraqi Linux Group Portal. Adam Davidson, an American reporter in Baghdad who helped start the group, has agreed to answer your questions about Linux in Iraq. Please post only one question per comment. We'll email Adam 10 of the highest-moderated questions, and post his answers verbatim (except for HTML formatting) when he gets them back to us.
Which distro? (Score:4, Interesting)
"except for HTML formatting"? (Score:2)
Original version:
Question: Which distribution of Linux do most Iraqis use?
Answer: oh, they all use Windows. I think I saw one with Slackware once though.
Slashdot version, with HTML added:
Question: Which distribution of Linux do most Iraqis use?
Answer: oh, they all use Slackware.
What? We edited the question? Of course not! We just added some strategically placed comment tags...
Re:Which distro? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why don't you get off your high camel. (Score:3)
Wow! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow! (Score:5, Informative)
well, according to the linux users journal, it sounds like it was. the article is here [linuxjournal.com] - you could have found it easily by reading the article.
additionally, it should be noticed that saudi arabia - a country that has consistently been in the top three worst regimes as far as human rights violations are concerned - has a lug as well [linux.org.sa].
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
Re:Wow! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wow! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
And the 2004 elections... (Score:2)
Age group? (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, I don't even know what it's in Sweden, but it would be interesting, right?
Re:Age group? (Score:2, Interesting)
hopfully will go there sometime soon
Re:Age group? (Score:5, Interesting)
Computer density in Iraq (Score:5, Interesting)
Mullah density in Iraq (Score:5, Interesting)
Any undertanding at all or just considered foreign and evil?
Re:Understanding? (Score:2)
WTF, do you think I mean. Iraq is not exactly a hotbed of technology, so it is a safe assumption the most technologies will be Foreign in the Not from Iraq sense. Second, Computer science, Semiconductor technology and Operations research is probably not the 3 top subjects on the How to be a Mullah curriculum. So there is a good chance it is foreign in the I have no experiece with this sense
Chances are the the clerics only knows that computers can be used to watch porn (Women without a h
Re:Computer density in Iraq (Score:2)
Whats Iraq really like? (Score:5, Interesting)
We all know that the news only plays the parts that sell (normally the worst parts) of reality, which leaves everyone with a twisted idea of what it is like. So if I was born and raised in Iraq, what would my life really be like?
Re:Whats Iraq really like? (Score:5, Interesting)
Encryption (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Encryption (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Encryption (Score:2)
what do you mean "before"? when hussein was gassing kurds, he was our pal. when he was committing war crimes against the iraqis he was on our side.
Re:Encryption (Score:2, Insightful)
"All crazy" in U.S. terms means "he screwed with our personal convenience" e.g., he invaded Kuwait which messed with our power-slurping habits. Nobody in any administration in recent memory gave or gives a crap about human rights. We're still "buddies" with China, after all, even though the country's run by nasty little brutes. Ditto India and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and....
Execute a few thousand of your countrymen? No problem. Fuck with my SUV? You're dead.
Re:Encryption (Score:4, Interesting)
So we look next door. Instead of a radical Islamic government, we see a secular leader, and we falsly assume that this means Iraq will not be subject to the same volitility as Iran. We also see a leader that is against the new Islamic government in Iran (our new enemy). We obviously underestimated Saddam.
Its not like we sat back and did nothing about his war crimes. We sent Rumsfeld to Iraq in the early 80's to urge Saddam not to use chemical weapons. We voted for almost a half a dozen UN resolutions condemning Iraq for it's chemical weapons use. And the chemical weapons he was using were not American [sipri.se] anyway. Finally it became painfully obvious that we could not trust Saddam, so we started working to disarm him.
Hopefully we can learn from mistakes like this.
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the finer points to be made regading use of Linux is none of it (again, unless you use a distro from a US company) is bound by US law, and least that's how I percieve it.
Re:Encryption (Score:2)
Re:Encryption (Score:2)
Re:Encryption (Score:3, Interesting)
If they are not 100% sure of where your IP is geographically located, they will not allow you to download the code. It happens to me once on a T3 line in Belgium. I was running behind a bunch of proxies, which I guess somehow prevented Sun to know for sure that I was a trusted user in an Allied country. I had to use a slow dial up
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
Which accomplishes... Nothing?
"Hi, Mom&Pop's Hometown ISP? I'd like to sign up with you. Yup, great, can I pay for a year in advance via direct deposit? Good. Okay, yeah, I'll need a shell account, does that present a problem? No? You'll have it active in fifteen minutes? Great. Thanks, bye".
Poof, any amount of attempted IP-to-geography mapping completely defeated. Saddam47@momnpop.com now appears to come from Sandusky, Ohio, not Tikrit, Iraq.
And that even goes so far as to assume someone has to pay for such obfuscation of their physical location... Personally, although I live in the US and don't need to circumvent export rules to do anything, I have a number of accounts in various places to get around strange policies I've encountered (such as "only from a
How can people outside Iraq help? (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux and "Netscape" lead the statistics... (Score:3, Informative)
Have to remember to check that page a day or two from now... there'll be a new "busiest hour", probably.
In the long run... (Score:4, Interesting)
a better question (Score:2)
What will the Iraqi government use? (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I correct in assuming that Microsoft is in there big time locking down contracts to rebuild government computing sytems?
Re:What will the Iraqi government use? (Score:3, Interesting)
I also fear that given the past history of Chalabi and his ilk it is likely that under the table payments will be crucial in getting any contracts from the appointed provisional authority - Chalabi faces a twenty stretch if the Jordanians ever get their hands on him, following his looting of the Petra Bank. Obviously a fit person for the US to select to se
Iraqi geek girls (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
I've been told by many reliable sources, including Iraqi expats, that Iraqi women were very emancipated by Arab standards (and even some Western standards) before this whole Saddam mess. Most of the older female Iraqi expats I know are either medical doctors or engineers (educated in Iraq), and the impression I got from them was that it was not all that uncommon for women to choose these kinds of careers. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the girls and women of Iraq
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
"/Dread"
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
Being a female or not, I feel it is a legitimate question, especially considering Iraq's previous history of being a model for women's liberation in the Arab world. Many women became scientists/engineers pre-Saddam. My interest is to chart any changes during the Saddam regime, and also investigate the role of women and women and technology for Iraqi women now that they have "freedom."
Re:Iraqi geek girls (Score:2)
Can we help you in some way? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)
Who fucking cares?
You will when they label you an enemy combatant and lock your ass up with no lawyer, trial, or contact with the outside world.
You don't screw with hair-brained dictator-wannabes and their psychotic little regimes unless you're serious.
How can we help? (Score:4, Interesting)
Domestic vs. Foreign Talent (Score:5, Interesting)
War coverage (Score:5, Interesting)
Would it have improved the way the major news channels "translated" the events ?
The Answer (Score:2)
Not really sure what Linux specifically would have to do with the ability of everyday Iraqis to get information off of the Internet (the same Internet that Linux and Windows connects to).
Re:The Answer (Score:2)
Since the first war I sincerely doubt our fellow Iraqi geek can line up the money to buy a licence.
(Yup, some other OSes count as free too but the article was about Linux...)
Re:The Answer (Score:3, Funny)
At least in former times there was a lively blackmarket in software in Baghdad.
The numbers. (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course we all know the fastest way to get network is to get a bunch of linux-geeks together.. Is the next linux beer.. erm.. thee hike going to be in Bagdad?
Re:The numbers. (Score:2)
mmmmm hookahs. not expensive, not illegal, looks damn cool, tastes damn good
Re:The numbers. (Score:2)
Legislative issues (Score:5, Interesting)
Given Iraq's clean-slate status:
How can the international community promote the freedom to use information technology for fair and lawful purposes (ie no DRM, free use of strong cryptography)?
Re:Legislative issues (Score:2, Troll)
By the tone of this post, I'd day say you're an "US vz. THEM" guy. I almost hope you're trolling, but if not:
It's not wise to put strong encryption capabilities in the hands of any Islamic nation.
Ok ... (awkward silence ensues). Let's also be sure not to trust countries who pass laws that allow the government to detain individuals for no reason based on their ethnicity and general paranoia. Let's also take cryptography away from those countries whose leader's mislead the general public about WMD, to p
Infrastructure (Score:5, Interesting)
So, as somebody who's actually there and actually knows what life is like for a techno-geek in today's Iraq, perhaps you could give us a detailed account about current network infrastructure, how easy or difficult it is to buy computer parts, how much Iraqi people (and Iraqi computer geeks in particular) use Internet technologies to connect to one another (e-mail, blogs, instant messaging, the web, etc.), what cultural attitudes in Iraq concerning the Internet, the global community, and the West, etc.
Most people in the United States (which is where most of the readers of /. come from) know very little about day-to-day life in Iraq. A detailed account would probably be very educational and broadening.
Piracy? (Score:2, Interesting)
If pirated copies of Windows are still the norm, and hardware/power is so unreliable that uptimes are irrelevant, what remaining advantages does Linux have over Windows?
Wouldn't it be better to promote OpenOffice/Mozilla/open file formats, so that the switch to Linux is easier once the infrastructure is more solid, and once piracy is no longer rampant?
Mandrake?? (Score:4, Funny)
Are you allowed to use Mandrake, or
are you forced to boycott french products in the new Iraq??
Re:Mandrake?? (Score:5, Funny)
Mandrake refuses to install itself in Iraq.
You insensitive clod! (Score:2)
State Of Intellectual Capital (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:State Of Intellectual Capital (Score:2)
How can we help? (Score:5, Interesting)
Programming Experience in Iraq (Score:5, Interesting)
Halliburton... (Score:3, Funny)
Free operating systems vs. Windows? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm assuming that most Iraqis don't have a computer, and as such there is not a very large Windows marketshare.
Do you think the lower prices of linux will encourage widespread computer usage in Iraq? Do you think maybe people will use linux more than windows, since it's cheaper and can (maybe) get a foothold in the market faster?
Better Question (Score:2)
How about "Do you think maybe people will use linux more than windows or Mac OS since it's cheaper and can (maybe) get a foothold in the market faster?"
Windows isn't the only commercial OS on the market, and Apple hardware isn't exactly an 'economy-priced' either.
Chance to return to old glory? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Chance to return to old glory? (Score:5, Interesting)
In about 762 A.D., the Abbasid dynasty took over rule of the vast Muslim world and moved the capital to the newly-founded city of Baghdad. Over the next five centuries, the city would become the world's center of education and culture. This period of glory has become known as the "Golden Age" of Islamic civilization, when scholars of the Muslim world made important contributions in both the sciences and humanities: medicine, mathematics, astronomy, chemistry, literature, and more. Under Abbasid rule, Baghdad became a city of museums, hospitals, libraries, and mosques.
Most of the famous Muslim scholars from the 9th to 13th centuries had their educational roots in Baghdad. One of the most famous centers of learning was Bayt al-Hikmah (the House of Wisdom), which attracted scholars from all over the world, from many cultures and religions. Here, teachers and students worked together to translate Greek manuscripts, preserving them for all time. They studied the works of Aristotle, Plato, Hippocrates, Euclid, and Pythagoras. The House of Wisdom was home to, among others, the most famous mathematician of the time: Al-Khawarizmi, the "father" of algebra (which is named after his book "Kitab al-Jabr").
While Europe festered in the Dark Ages, Baghdad was thus at the heart of a vibrant and diverse civilization. It was known as the world's richest and most intellectual city of the time, and was second in size only to Constantinople.
After 500 years of rule, however, the Abbasid dynasty slowly began to lose its vitality and relevance over the vast Muslim world. The reasons were partly natural (vast flooding and fires), and partly human-made (rivalry between Shia and Sunni Muslims, internal security problems).
The city of Baghdad was finally trashed by the Mongols in 1258 A.D., effectively ending the era of the Abbasids. The Tigris and Euphrates Rivers reportedly ran red, with the blood of thousands of scholars (a reported 100,000 of Baghdad's million residents were massacred). Many of the libraries, irrigation canals, and great historical treasures were looted and forever ruined. The city began a long period of decline, and became host to numerous wars and battles that continue to this day.
Re:Chance to return to old glory? (Score:2)
The Arabs gave nothing to the world... (Score:2)
The thing is, he was right (probably without knowing it). They gave us the concept of zero in about 950 (I think). I would guess that it probably came also from Baghdad, along with all the other stuff.
The story of the sack of Baghdad must be more complicated. As a rule, if you agreed to their notional rule (the Kahn was usually a long way away) and raised and paid taxes, cities were generally left alone.
We cant allow that! (Score:2)
Internet in Iraq (Score:5, Interesting)
Does the Internet help opressed peoples in dictatorial regimes to see the rights and freedoms that their governments deny them, and to see around the official views that are put out through party propaganda machines? Is it our responsibility to help people in nations like China circumvent their government's censorship mechanisms (using systems like the ill-fated SafeWeb) and see what's really going on in the world, much as Voice of America and BBC World Service have been doing on the radio for so many years?
How many people have you spoken to in Iraq who used the Internet in some form under Hussein and what did they think of the content? Impressed? Disgusted? Did the Internet have any influence before or during the war, perhaps persuading people not to resist or fight for the regime?
What uses have you found the for Internet in post-dictatorship Iraq? Communications, fostering democratic thinking?
Does Linux (being free and hence requiring no capital investment) represent the ideal way to get people online in Iraq when money is tight and perhaps better used elsewhere?
IT jobs in Iraq (Score:5, Interesting)
iLug (Score:4, Funny)
What does Linux give Iraq that Windows does not? (Score:4, Interesting)
Baghdad Internet Cafe (Score:5, Informative)
They reported being able to buy cheap computers ("200 USD FOR P4"), but power was an issue - it goes down a lot - fortunately the Cafe has a generator.
I plan to do another chat with them in February.
It is important to keep in mind that during the mid-70's, Baghdad was practially a "European" city in terms of infrastructure, based on high oil prices and Saddam's desire to create a showplace for the glory of his regime. Things didn't really go downhill structurally there until the war with Iran, then Gulf War I, the sacntions, etc.
Also, a lot of businesses now depend on email for communications to and from Iraq, as the phone lines are often less than dependable.
The Baghadad Internet Cafe opened August 1. It is my feeling that it would not have been possible to have an open public Internet chat like the one we had before operation Iraqi Freedom without some kind of government political official there to monitor things. I'll have to ask next time.
At the college/university level (Score:5, Interesting)
Political angles? (Score:3, Interesting)
Tell us the truth... (Score:2, Funny)
G.W.B.
Licensing differences... (Score:2)
Question:
General (Score:5, Interesting)
What is currently the most popular OS and hardware platform in Iraq, both by numbers and total computing power?
Issues:
* Crypto importing
* Access to Internet to maintain a Unix system
* The ".iq" top level domain
* Who runs the providers?
* Keeping Microsoft out (their own EULA forbids its use in Iraq)
who is more evil? (Score:2, Funny)
Overall (Score:5, Interesting)
How do you think they will be one year (or 5 years) in the future?
Re:Overall (Score:2)
Re:Overall (Score:2)
Yes, I think it is. Various entities have said no, they're worse off. others have said they are better off.
I'd like to hear it from someone on the ground.
And you can keep your Dr Dean innuendos at home. If you can derive my political leanings from one simple question, you are truly a master.
Personally, I think they are much better off today. However, a real opinion from someone actually there would seem to count for much more that your or my opinion from thousands of m
In-house, commercial, or hobby? (Score:2, Interesting)
If there is a lot of commercial development, in what areas?
How can we help put Linux... (Score:2)
"/Dread"
What's the rest of te region doing? (Score:3, Interesting)
Intellectual Property legislation (Score:5, Interesting)
State of the Iraqi network. (Score:5, Interesting)
I.E. is broadband available? Is it mostly dialup etc...
Nature of your members (Score:3, Interesting)
Is there any optimism that, once the current turmoil settles down, Iraq will be able to grow a stronger technology-based economy?
Contributing to linx-iraq.org (Score:2)
This is a serious question - are you
the best question asked yet.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Here in Seattle there are lots of PII's at the Goodwill - great for Linux use
Best ways to get software? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm probably headed back to Saudia Arabia for a week in February, and I had a heck of a time finding good servers. You never know how much you rely on a fast Internet connection until you spend three days downloading the source for Open Office for your Gentoo-based laptop.
And yes, I know for the future that the binary Open Office package is smaller, just about as fast, and that it doesn't take 30 hours to build on a P3 system.
Re:To all the people that think liberation is bad. (Score:2, Insightful)
I disagree. Thinking the liberation was wrong does not imply a disregard for the current state of affairs in Iraq.
Whether or not you supported the war, we must deal with the situation as it stands, and Iraq can use all the help it can get. I fully support a free software initiative in Iraq.
Globe199
Re:What happens when you type "make (Score:3, Funny)
error: uranium.so is corrupt or could not be found
error: anthrax.so has corrupt header (possibly expired)
error: compiling anyways, program may fail to install properly