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Linux Business Handhelds Wireless Networking Hardware

DoCoMo To Use Linux On Their 3G phones 139

Posted by timothy from the darl's-ears-perk-up dept.
ilbrec writes "Looks like NTT DoCoMo will be using Linux on their 3G phones next year. This actually was reported yesterday in Japan (here), but I could not find any article in English until now. While it's not clear who will be making the Linux phone for them, I would certainly be interested in seeing them once they are out. No word on this anywhere at DoCoMo's website at all, however." Reader paku adds links to similar coverage in Forbes and in Japan Today.
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DoCoMo To Use Linux On Their 3G phones More

DoCoMo To Use Linux On Their 3G phones

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  • That's who makes just about anything embedded-Linux based.

  • bad idea.... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by k0d0 ( 648229 )
    top use something like linux on a mobile IMO... we have enough exploitable mobiles out there already, better use something simple without toys...

    greetings,

    Kodo [kodo.me.uk]
    • Well I figure the phone will cost $100 with a discount for a service contract. Then add on the $1399 per platform SCO tax and you get $1499. ouch.

      But on a more serious note if they really want to put a nice OS with an exapansible API on the phone some company should think about partnering with apple to do it.

      Also I dont know much about kernels, but from a superficial knowledge level I'd speculate that BSD with its modular microkernel might be slightly more adapted to niche platforms than linux which

  • Well, it's an option anyway. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:54AM (#7617691) Journal
    Quoth Forbes article

    DoCoMo does not intend to force them to use the Linux-based software and it does not preclude the use of other operating systems including Smartphone software from Microsoft Corp as future OS candidates for its 3G phones, the source said.


    Simon.

    • Re:Well, it's an option anyway. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tftp ( 111690 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:10AM (#7617798) Homepage
      The engineers decided on Linux, but the PHBs don't want to take risks (correctly, by the way.) So they, in their usual manner, tell us something while telling us nothing, and not committing to anything.

      But seriously, Linux is great on embedded systems. I am right now working with Arcom's PC/104 board that has XScale CPU on it. I left the board plugged in for several months, and when I checked it was still working fine :-) It's Debian, btw, and takes only 8 MB Flash (other 8 MB are free, and I have larger CompactFlash plugged in as /dev/hda for development).

  • I don't think the cdma people will even carry it. I reather have a 2.5G phone since the GSM carriers deliver, sprint has been promising for 7 months a bluetooth phone, so I don't think that eather sprint of verizon, the 2 cdma and therefor the only 3g networks in the us, will ever carrie it, I ditched sprint last week for a 2.5G company T-Mobil because they have the better phones, yes the theredical speed of the net is slower but the applided speed is faster because it is there. see this page I did http:/ [slashdot.org]

  • It'll be Monte Vista Linux (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If it's the Panasonic model.

    (posted anonymously because I'm working on that project)
  • Nitpick:

    Linux is an open-source, easy-to-modify, and license-free product.

    No it's not. It's free licence. These people need to understand libre software [slashdot.org].

    Manufacturers are expected to comply with DoCoMo's request to replace their systems with a unified Linux standard apparently for fear of being left out in the cold

    Now, is this a good reason to move to Linux? I mean, if this is the reason for small manufacturers to move, had DoCoMo chosen Windows, they would probably have moved to that instead. Oh we
    • Nitpick:

      Now, is this a good reason to move to Linux? I mean, if this is the reason for small manufacturers to move, had DoCoMo chosen Windows, they would probably have moved to that instead. Oh well.

      They didn't choose Linux, at least, no more than they did Symbian or Microsoft's SmartPhone. They simple choose to provide specs for manufactuers of iMode compliant phones who wish to make Linux phones. They aren't making the phones themselves, and certainly are not switching to Linux.

  • On Bizzaro World... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Can you hack these phones to run Windows and not support the Evil Penguin Empire?
    • On Bizarro World:

      SCC makes you pay them $699 if you DON'T use Linux.

      The recording industry sells all their material online, in a usable format, at a fair price

      We don't, for one, welcome our new overlords.

      Windows Security is not an oxymoron.

    • Also on Bizarro World... Soviet Russia jokes make you!

  • GPL (Score:4, Insightful)

    by h4rm0ny ( 722443 ) * on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:00AM (#7617727) Journal

    How does this work as far as distributing the source code? Is that available for modification and if so is it possible to upload a self-improved OS to the phone?

    Does that open up the possibility of doing clever things or am I being ignorant? If the former then this could be great, if the latter - hey, I only wrote telecommns code for two years, what do you expect?

    • Re:GPL (Score:3, Interesting)

      by cyberformer ( 257332 )
      To comply with the GPL, they need to make source code available. But it's perfectly possible (and legal, IMHO IANAL) to embed the OS in ROM in such a way that it can't easily be changed. Source code availability is still useful, though: It helps developers of apps understand how the system works, makes security audits possible and means that once the device is no longer produced, it'll be easier to make an emulator.

      The downside for the phone makers is that their competitors can also take the source code an

  • At the same time, DoCoMo is also looking into the possibility of developing a standard based on an OS made by Symbian Ltd., a British firm whose OS is used widely in Europe and in some handsets in Japan.

    (the above from the article.)

    My wife's phone uses Symbian's OS. It's very, very nice. Unless someone comes out with a killer phone app requiring the linux kernel, I think DoCoMo would be better off with Symbian.

    Although I would give a mint to be able to use regexps on my phone book.

    • And also here - Japanese mobile operator to develop user interface and service delivery technologies for 3G handsets using Symbian OS [symbian.com]

      The Symbian OS is nice, I've played with one of the Symbian based FOMA phones, and it's very cool indeed.
    • Its also very nice to write software for. Soon as I get a free moment I'll break the seal on the dev kit Nokia/Borland gave me, but from what I've read and seen it has a very good system model that makes it VERY hard to have an app crash the OS. In addition the System 60 phones have a screen that is higher res then the defalt Palm screen of 160x160, granted it is smaller. So there is little to stop you from porting or creating "real" applications for the platform.
    • "I think DoCoMo would be better off with Symbian."
      Just to clarify things...DoCoMo will likely be very well off with *both* Symbian and Linux. I think this is great news considering that DoCoMo and Symbian has already signed an operator technology integrator agreement.
      So in the end, all this really says is that MS appears to be on the loosing end of the stick concerning a very large market indeed.
    • Yeah, it's too bad you can't buy PDAs that run EPOC32/Symbian anymore. Some of those phones are almost as good- the P800 for instance- but it'd be nice if there were a few Symbian devices that were simply dedicated PDAs.

    • Except that Symbian is controlled by Nokia. And the Symbian dev tools are sucky. You have to use their wacky C++ variant, incompatible with all your legacy code. They don't even have a remote debugger to debug programs running on the phone! Borland sells a Symbian remote debugger, but you have to pay extra, you have to switch to Borland's C++ compiler, and it barely works.

      From the user's perspective, they can't tell the difference (given a decent GUI). Using Linux underneath a user-friendly GUI is an advan

  • Will there ever be a standard? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SexyKellyOsbourne ( 606860 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:06AM (#7617770) Journal

    We all know Microsoft is trying to be the "standard" for cell-phone operating systems much in the way that they took over almost the entire desktop and workplace market, but will there ever be a Linux standard? I know Symbian [sybian.com] is also trying to create a standard for cell phones that already is quite strong in Europe, but there really should be a consortium where Linux developers can get together and set standards, instead of them being scattered across the internet proposing a few ideas.

    If there's going to be standards, they should always be open source and free as in beer. Corporate control of standards only creates monopolies. Even in America, a lot of people are dropping their landlines for cellphones, and if there's ever a Linux standard for it, it should be created quickly before it's too late.

    • a few standards to be available... (Score:4, Informative)

      by mm0mm ( 687212 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:37AM (#7617988)
      according to zdnet japan [zdnet.co.jp] (sorry link in japanese), DoCoMo added Linux as an option for manufacturers to choose from, by setting standardized specs for Linux on 3G. apparently DoCoMo doesn't want to limit choices of OS on 3G. The article says that they have specs (requirement) for Symbian OS available also.

      As Japan's largest provider, DoCoMo's relaxed stance on choice of OS may benefit manufacturers and consumers in a long run. Obviously people at DoCoMo can't care less about the OS that will soon be running inside of every car [yahoo.com].

      Freedom of choice is a blessing these days...
    • Hmmm... I'm a bit dubious about the site you linked to Sybian.com [sybian.com], although that would give a whole new meaning to an embedded operating system. I think (am hoping) you must have been meaning Symbian.com [symbian.com]. Of course sybian they might have helped developed the vibrate features...
    • Sybian, eh... now there's a Freudian slip/typo, if I've ever heard one ;)

  • One Year From Now... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I can just see the headline on Slashdot a year from now will be:

    DoCoMo accused of GPL violation, fails to release modified code.
  • Given that the FSF will not pursue anyone who abuses the GPL unless the abused code's copyright is owned by the FSF, and given that no other organization seems to be protecting the GPL, what guarantee do we have that the sources will be included and this will be legit? Answer: None.
    • ..they will probably be. ..what use will them be for you? probably none, since you can't probably upload your own firmware code without a big fuss(for apps, i take it as a pretty sure bet that it has j2me of some grade).

      the symbian phones allow the most flexibility currently(most lowelevel tricks you can do in software compared to other phones.. like answering machines that run on the phone&etc..).
    • AIUI, the FSF own copyrights over a large selection of code fragments in the kernel. It's quite unlikely that DoCoMo would be able to strip out the FSF's code and still have a running kernel.

      Anyway, anybody whose code is in the kernel can pursue any GPL-transgressor themselves if they like. In other words, Red Hat, IBM et al could chase it if they thought it was worth their while.

      J.

  • Probably will be modded a troll, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mental_telepathy ( 564156 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:14AM (#7617823)
    I mean this seriously. Would a good sign of Linux becoming more mainstream be when it's no longer news that a company is using Linux in their products?
    • And does it really matter that this phone will run Linux? That alone is not a reason to buy it, at least not for me. Phones with PalmOS are great since there's a lot of software developed for that platform. I guess the phone wouldn't run any linux program right out of the box. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
      • Phones with PalmOS are great since there's a lot of software developed for that platform.

        Perhaps software developed for the Sharp Zaurus would run out-of-the-box on the phone, or be trivially ported.

      • And does it really matter that this phone will run Linux? That alone is not a reason to buy it, at least not for me.

        That is not a reason to buy it for almost anyone- except a lot of the Linux cheerleading slashdot crowd. NTT DoCoMo certainly won't be marketing this as a special Linux phone, in a lame attempt to cash in on interest in Linux without having to produce a decent system; at least, they won't if they want this phone to be a decent seller to general consumers, which is their style.
      • Judging from the rest of the cellphones in Japan, the OS will be absolutely transparent to the user. No additional programs can be run (except Java apps, which are basically platform independent). I have a J-Phone (er, I guess technically "Vodafone" now), and no idea what OS it is. Since all I can do is what the phone manufacturer (Sharp) programmed it to do, I don't care what OS it runs either.
    • what would become of /. !?

      Don't like the direction this country has taken? Go to www.blogforamerica.com

    • I think this would be bigger news if DoCoMo had chosen NetBSD over Linux. NetBSD prides itself it being a portable and lightweight OS, but why doesn't it get more attention? You would think NetBSD's BSD license would be more attractive to manufacturers than Linux's GPL license. There is even commercial dev support for embedded NetBSD systems from Wasabi Systems [wasabisystems.com], but they don't seem to be having much success in the cell phone arena.

  • Phones and operating systems (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zog The Undeniable ( 632031 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:24AM (#7617884)
    What I don't understand is why anyone needs to cram a whole multi-user, multi-tasking OS onto a small device with only two or three modes of operation (voice phone, Internet and maybe digital camera). None of these devices really need to be upgradeable - most Europeans get a whole new phone every 12-18 months because their network provider allows cheap upgrades - so that can't be the reason.

    Presumably it's cheaper to build additional processor speed and storage into the device, to cope with the overhead of Linux/Windows Embedded, than it is to spend developer time to knock up a custom OS for the limited hardware?

    • Re:Phones and operating systems (Score:4, Insightful)

      by aug24 ( 38229 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:44AM (#7618042) Homepage
      Cos you can rip out what you don't need and add what you do fairly easily.

      For example, all the userland stuff can go - just cos it'll have a user doesn't mean it needs to use the existing, highly secure multi-user stuff.

      The multi-task stuff may well be of use, as phones are not RTE any more. The chips almost certainly are still, but certainly not the front end.

      Justin.

    • Have you seen what the latest phones in Japan can do? MP3 playback (including replacement of ring tones), external storage on MemoryStick, movie recording and playback, digital still camera with 1.3-2Mpixels, Bluetooth, two displays (one internal, one external so you can check your mail without opening it)...

    • What I don't understand is why anyone needs to cram a whole multi-user, multi-tasking OS onto a small device with only two or three modes of operation (voice phone, Internet and maybe digital camera). None of these devices really need to be upgradeable - most Europeans get a whole new phone every 12-18 months because their network provider allows cheap upgrades - so that can't be the reason.

      The new generation of 2.5G/3G phones are more like computers stuffed into a small case than a traditional phone.
      • "how cool wouldn't it be to run sshd on your phone"

        I have no idea how cool it would be, but since Japanese manufacturers don't allow user access to the OS, you couldn't run it anyway. The only external applications that can run on Japanese cell phones are Java applications. The manufacturers use the OS to run phone functions (user interface, dialing, phonebook, digital camera, internet, and video), and that's all the customer can see.

    • What I don't understand is why anyone needs to cram a whole multi-user, multi-tasking OS onto a small device with only two or three modes of operation (voice phone, Internet and maybe digital camera). None of these devices really need to be upgradeable - most Europeans get a whole new phone every 12-18 months because their network provider allows cheap upgrades - so that can't be the reason.

      I would think of two reasons:

      1: Because they can. Japan has always been the land of new miniaturized geek gadg

  • Don't forget: re-arrange the letters in NTT DoCoMo and what you get is "Not Dotcom" !

  • O/S not the main consideration (Score:4, Interesting)

    by wombatmobile ( 623057 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:59AM (#7618194)

    Many handset vendors are working with Linux in some way, and some vendors like Motorola are working with all kinds of O/S from Linux through to Symbian and MS.

    But does the O/S really matter if all the phones support Java now anyway? If you're going to write software for open mobile deployment, wouldn't you be inclined to consider Java first since it alone is ubiquitous on phones? O/S generally doesn't count for much in that decision.

    More than that, consider the data formats... Those indespensible new compelling 3G services if they ever eventuate will be all about selling and consuming data. Whose format(s) are service vendors going to use and support and work with? The content is what will be monetized with consumers and the format is what determines the nature of the franchises, like e.g. Office on the desktop.

    Whether the data format is something proprietary like .ppt or .doc or .swf or something open like SVG or XHTML I think is more significant to mobile developers' careers than the O/S.

    Look at the SMS business - the SMS standard can be implemented on any phone O/S and in fact it has been implemented on all of them. That is why SMS has been able to grow to $36b per year today.

  • Who is making the phone (Score:3, Informative)

    by neglige ( 641101 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @11:29AM (#7618416)
    While it's not clear who will be making the Linux phone for them [...]

    As I recall from the NTT iMode service, NTT just set the technical specifications. Any manufacturer who wants to sell iMode phones has to follow these specs, and they do it, because the iMode market in Japan is huge.

    My guess is that the same thing applies to the 3G handset. There probably won't be a dedicated handset manufacturer but each of them will produce a "NTT compliant" phone.

    And since the Japanese version of IMT 2000 is "slightly" different than those in Europe and America, you won't be able to use those phones anywhere else without modifications.
  • In many ways Linux and the whole Open Source way of doing things is ideal for this kind of application. It makes a certain amount of sense to standardize certain aspects of the OS on mobile phones, after all it is a communication device, and having every thing talk the same language is an obvious bonus.

    The article talks about how many different manufacturers are running different systems on their phone. The linux initiative would mean that all of those companies can contribute to an open standard codebase
  • "I would certainly be interested in seeing them once they are out."

    Of course, if they do their job properly then you wouldn't be able to tell that it runs linux. It would just do phone stuff.

  • This actually was reported yesterday in Japan (here), but I could not find any article in English until now.

    Courtesy of the Rejected Post Machine:

    NTT DoCoMo: Linux-based 3G Mobile Phones in 2004

    * 2003-12-02 11:59:33 NTT DoCoMo: Linux-based 3G Mobile Phones in 2004 (articles,pilot)(rejected)

    Reuters [reuters.co.uk] cites a confidential source as saying that NTT DoCoMo will offer its customers Linux-based 3G mobile phones in 2004 [forbes.com]. DoCoMo has apparently sent specifications to handset manufacturers and DoCoMo [nttdocomo.com] suppl

  • hmmm (Score:2)

    by XO ( 250276 )
    I just wanted to add that I had put this in as a submission 3 days ago. I know the submission big can be a bit lagged, but I know damn well it isn't 3 days lagged. Grr.
  • This is particularly interesting considering DoCoMo bought a large stake in AT&T Wireless last year. AT&T Wireless is based in Redmond, WA, and has announced that they plan to use Microsoft products in their phones. I suppose DoCoMo could influence AT&T Wireless to switch over.

  • I was one of the first Westerners (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BillsPetMonkey ( 654200 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @03:55PM (#7621138)
    to get a Docomo imode phone.

    Docomo, like Sony is one of those companies you want to hate but end up rather liking. Sony, you hate for the AIBO hacking controversy, saves itself with the Linux kit for PS2.

    Docomo is a money-grabbing, high priced qu(e)asi-governmental monopoly. But it knows that by adapting Linux to run on a phone, it wins tecchie friends.

    The first imode phone came out in February 1999. I bought one (the black f501i) in March 1999 when I arrived in Japan. I wanted a phone I could send email from because I didn't have a PC. That phone was nice and was way ahead of it's time (even in Japan)

    Docomo's Linux offering will also be good, as it has tecchie know-how. Oh, and NTT Docomo has one of the highest market capitalisations on the planet.
    • "The first imode phone came out in February 1999...I wanted a phone I could send email from because I didn't have a PC. That phone was nice and was way ahead of it's time (even in Japan)"

      FUCK J-Phone and its horrible horrible public relations. J-Phone (and Digital TuKa) had email on phones way before iMode came out, but they didn't advertise or hype it at all, and only techies knew about it (it wasn't hidden, by any means. Clearly explained in the manuals, obvious on menus, etc., but they didn't advert

      • Recently, thankfully, [DoCoMo's] prices have become sane, but they really don't deserve to be the top carrier in Japan. Currently EzWeb (KDDI) is probably the best, followed by Vodafone (J-Phone), and then DoCoMo...And then TuKa and its glorious bid to avoid going out of business.

        I don't know; I haven't been impressed with KDDI ever since I tried reporting spam to them and was told "we don't have a reporting address and we're not taking any action against spam senders". (DoCoMo, on the other hand, set u

        • I'm not sure how KDDI works their mail system, but J/Voda-fone automatically transmit the first 128 characters for free. If you get longer mail, and want to read the rest, you can choose to download the rest for a cost. This means that spam, while a pain in the butt, is free for the user (yes, yes, I know, indirect costs associated with increasing bandwidth and equipment to handle spam loads, but you know what I mean). DoCoMo used to charge for EVERY mail, whether you want it or not. A big scandal came
          • iMode came out and basically lied about being the first

            No, they didn't lie, they actually covered up the fact that it had an always-on connection to the Internet, because people in Japan were kind of scared of the Internet then.

            JPhone certainly didn't have email and Internet then either as NTT Docomo was the first to request W3C's comments on CHTML which became the standard subset to display content for the phones. JPhone was too busy concentrating on increasing the pixel-depth of their colour displays b
            • A few points

              Ok, they didn't lie, but they did massively represent (in implying that they were the first to offer email via cell phone).

              NTT DoCoMo was the first to have internet, true (ref CHTML comment). However, J-Phone had email before that (no need for HTML). I had a Digital TuKa (a company that no longer exists composed of Digital Phone (also known as J-Phone) and TuKa) Denso DN-174 in late 1997 (it came out in November, I think I got mine in December) which I used to send email to my parents, bef
  • http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8011783890.html

  • No matter what the operating system, I have no doubt that mobile phones in Japan will continue to be used by pedestrian-endangering people on bicycles and incredibly irritating Japanese schoolgirls who insist on keeping their "SMAP" ringtone at TOP VOLUME while riding the train.

    Dear God, perhaps Linux based phones will be able to tell when this is happening to reach out and give them a good whack. (That was a joke. Please don't reply and tell me why the OS doesn't make a lick of difference. Thanks.)

    Mod

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