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A Novell Linux Specialist? 335

Posted by Cliff from the proving-you-know-what-you-know dept.
richardeholder asks: "Our Novell partners differentiate themselves in the marketplace by promoting their areas of expertise or specializations; this allows their customers to know what their skill sets are and what they can reasonably expect these partners to provide for them. As we embrace Linux, we would like to extend the title of 'Linux specialist' to partners who merit it. Before we move forward on this initiative, we would like to ask the Linux community for guidance on what should constitute a Linux specialist. Should we require certifications such as LPI and the RHCE/RHCT, or are there other more valuable ways of demonstrating Linux competency?"
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A Novell Linux Specialist? More

A Novell Linux Specialist?

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  • Requirements for a linux specialist: (Score:5, Funny)

    by SeanTobin ( 138474 ) * <byrdhuntr AT hotmail DOT com> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:21PM (#7285669)
    An individual or company can be considered a linux specialist if they demonstrate the ability to:

    -Properly secure a firewall
    -Compile and install a kernel
    -Configure the third button on thier mouse
    -Print to a Panasonic KXP-8410 printer in color
    -Make coffee that is restricted under OSHA guidelines
    -Recognize a minimum 8 of 10 random network cards by thier chipset number only
    -Understand the usefullness of the SysRq button
    -Install linux on any appliance that does not come with a keyboard or mouse
    -Setup a cron job to order pizza online
    -Pay a license fee to SCO
    -Assemble a beowolf cluster which includes more than one type of gaming console
    -Install a really cool kde/gnome/enlightenment theme
    -Run desktops at no less than 1600x1200 resolution, native
    -Name all boxen after sci-fi characters/objects
    -Any cats owned must be named after cabling specifications
    -Adequate space must be reserved in all hardware racks for pizza boxes
    -Every system must glow at night. Server rooms should be scary

    That should just about cover it. Congratulations! You may now call yourself a linux specialist!
    • I don't qualify. I don't use desktops at all.
    • -Make coffee that is restricted under OSHA guidelines

      Are you kidding? I much prefer OSHA-violating coffee.

      Sweet, sweet, forbidden coffee. Who cares if it's made with heavy water.
    • Any cats owned must be named after cabling specifications

      As geeky as it sounds, I did this. My wife didn't mind "Cat 5", but she really hates the other one I named "Cat 5e".

    • Even with a "5 funny" score, parent seens the only post to touch the question asked.

      I would not mind calling a Linux Specialist one that would be capable to comply with the 4 first itens in parents list:

      -Properly secure a firewall
      -Compile and install a kernel
      -Configure the third button on thier mouse
      -Print to a Panasonic KXP-8410 printer in color

      Itens 3 and 4 - or maybe some other semi-random tasks - would assure that the guy really can handle it, and not someone who just overworked a couple howtos.
    • Assuming it's ok if i don't have any cats, i'm there. And i sleep in the server room, so i go for the soothing, not scary, glow.

    • Re:Requirements for a linux specialist: (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mnmn ( 145599 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @09:54PM (#7286846) Homepage
      -Properly secure a firewall
      This should really include configuring and using snort as the IDS part, full control over the iptables command and NOT using squid.

      -Compile and install a kernel
      And change the default screen color, use rdev and use ksymoops to locate the source of a crash and report it properly using the right bugreport email format to the exactly right group of people after having searched mailinglist archives and newsgroups for the same problem. Should also know enough C and about makefiles to correct function typos, comment out assert blocks and point the makefiles to the right libraries and include directories. Remember we're talking about a linux SPECIALIST, not a kiddie compiler.

      -Configure the third button on thier mouse
      No thats too tough

      -Print to a Panasonic KXP-8410 printer in color
      Too many Linux experts know little about printers. Many printers dont have drivers but can shared to smb/active directory users who do have the drivers. I strongly agree with this point.

      -Make coffee that is restricted under OSHA guidelines
      Or Quetta Tea. Doodh Pati. Not all geeks are scrawny white suburban californians.

      -Recognize a minimum 8 of 10 random network cards by thier chipset number only
      I would agree with this one, but you can have software-only experts too. I can tell ethernet, tokenring, fddi, atm, arcnet and isdn cards by their chipset, whether they will run under Linux/FreeBSD or Solaris, but I know guys who dont change their RAM but develop sophisticated KDE apps. There are niches...

      -Understand the usefullness of the SysRq button
      This can be learned in a day, so a specialist MUST know it.

      -Install linux on any appliance that does not come with a keyboard or mouse
      I am tempted to say he should be able to do the same with Solaris. Should also be able to install Plan9, Windows 2000 Advanced Server, Unixware, AIX and QNX on vmware images. (bochs would do)

      -Setup a cron job to order pizza online
      Too easy

      -Pay a license fee to SCO
      Uhh yeah. I'll hire such a person.

      -Assemble a beowolf cluster which includes more than one type of gaming console
      I'll bring a serious point here. This is not a practical skill. Just test for RHCE and that covers the really required sysadmin skills. Someone who is obsessed with gamebox clusters will not be interested in 99.9999 uptime. He will be playing unreal on the servers at night.

      -Install a really cool kde/gnome/enlightenment theme
      And get used to twm and CDE. Learn to enjoy the command line.

      -Run desktops at no less than 1600x1200 resolution, native
      Why? Use a real DEC VT520 dumb terminal.

      -Name all boxen after sci-fi characters/objects
      Come on geeks are more diverse than that. I havent seen star wars.

      -Any cats owned must be named after cabling specifications
      Or kernel header files, or commands.

      -Adequate space must be reserved in all hardware racks for pizza boxes
      One PC-XT case should be home to a hamster.

      -Every system must glow at night. Server rooms should be scary
      I second that. Modders for beautification are generally not all that interested in the software and are gamers.

      Here are some others:
      1. Take a 10GB ext3 or XFS or reiserfs partition full of data, and dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/partition block=512 count=4096, do the same for the END of the partition, and dd if=/dev/partition of=/tmp/file and give the file to him to recover as much data as possible.
      2. Give him a Linux server and a Pentium1 with no harddisk but a bootable nic, and tell him to remote-boot windows95. Hire him for at least $80k if he can do that.
      3. Act like a project manager and ask him to put all his work in project form on MS Project 2000, and submit weekly reports. Cause deliber
  • slackware 3.0 (the one with "stable internet", a PIV 2.4 Ghz and tell him to get it up and running with just the disks, the hard and the net connection.

    If you are not too bad with your proxies rules, about 1 in 10 000 will do it 8p
    • 3.0? That is for the weak. Slackware 95 booting off of the floppy disk (pre CD boot era) to access the proprietary CD-ROM hanging off of your sound card. Using said distro to connect to the internet via modem (requiring hacking of MANY scripts including ppp-on, ppp-off, chat, options and resolv.conf) and find out from your ISP or trial and error if they are using pap, chap, mspap, or mschap).

      Oh, he must have been able to get the base installation running in 6 hours and X-Windows in 4 more having never se

  • Wow, high ranking Novell official honors Slashdot (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:24PM (#7285687)
    It makes me want to re-embrace Novell just knowing that they are doing things *right* (like talking to the community on Slashdot).

    I think I left off at 3.12. Hey did anyone ever keep a copy of that NCSnipes game?

  • Since you mentioned Novell.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by psykocrime ( 61037 ) <mindcrime&cpphacker,co,uk> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:24PM (#7285688) Homepage Journal
    Go for the Novell Certified Linux Engineer [novell.com] certification.
  • How 'bout these:

    What's your Karma?
    How often do you post to Slashdot?
    How many stories have you successfully submitted to Slashdot?

  • That's easy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by zulux ( 112259 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:25PM (#7285701) Homepage Journal

    Ask them to spell Microsoft.

    If they use a dollar symbol somwhere in the spelling - then the're a Linux expert.

    If they spell it Micro-Soft - then ther're really old school DOS expert.

    If they spell it MICROS~1 -then there a Windows expert.

    • It's interesting to note that in each of the 3 cases, you also spelled "they're" differently, none of which being correct. One of those read between the lines kind of joke? ;-)
      • It's interesting to note that in each of the 3 cases, you also spelled "they're" differently, none of which being correct. One of those read between the lines kind of joke? ;-)

        I was just testing Slashdot's Human-Touch(tm) spell-checker. It seems to have worked yet again! ;)
        • I was just testing Slashdot's Human-Touch(tm) spell-checker.

          Hmm, "Slashdot, the open-source spell checker". A very interesting concept I must admit! :-)
    • Ask them to spell Microsoft. If they choose not to spell it correctly, then you've found yourself a slashdot troll. They'll most likely be a linux expert, but their lack of hygiene and/or social skills may scare away potential clients.

  • certification requirements? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sl0ppy ( 454532 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:26PM (#7285709)
    there's the obvious one -- how many anti-microsoft comments you can get onto slashdot during one day.

    but, all kidding aside, what's the scope of the specialty?

    o firewalls
    o security
    o script writing

    or are we talking end-user support?

    o kde
    o gnome
    o X configuration

    there would also be the need for familiarization with common opensource apps, such as openoffice, gnumeric, kword, etc.

    what exactly are we talking about?
    • How about, "Yes, all of the above", including more basic "old school" admin tasks, such as distro building, compiling, and other basic system administration tasks?

    • Re:certification requirements? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rossz ( 67331 ) <ogre@@@geekbiker...net> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @09:00PM (#7286480) Journal
      Yah, the term "linux specialist" is just too damn broad. The field needs to be broken down into many different fields - some overlapping, e.g. system admin, security expert, app development, kernel hacker, etc. Personally, I'm a pretty good linux admin, do rather well with scripting, perl, php, mysql, and so on, but I struggle with c/c++ coding (I can do it, but I'm not an expert). I compile my own kernels, but would be dangerous to let lose actually making kernel code changes. So what do they actually want?
  • If the individual can get a Delta 44 sound card installed, they get my vote.

  • this man is not one of us (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:30PM (#7285743)

    Our Novell partners differentiate themselves in the marketplace by promoting their areas of expertise or specializations; this allows their customers to know what their skill sets are and what they can reasonably expect these partners to provide for them. As we embrace Linux, we would like to extend the title of 'Linux specialist' to partners who merit it. Before we move forward on this initiative, we would like to ask the Linux community for guidance on what should constitute a Linux specialist. Should we require certifications such as LPI and the RHCE/RHCT, or are there other more valuable ways of demonstrating Linux competency?

    These words are the words of a suit! But that's all right, all are welcome on slashdot. Well except the RIAA and microsoft, but that's besides the point.

    Basically, you need to come up with your own certification. All certifications are pretty meaningless to the non-suits, but I think your partners would have a better understanding of "skill sets" if you defined your own set of Novell Linux Specialist credentials, and then either came up with your own tests and so forth or use these credentials to certify other certifications.

  • My list for interviews: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:35PM (#7285781)
    Fat? Check.
    GNU/Linux? Check.
    Steals music online? Check.
    Smells? Check.
    Patents are evil? Check.
    Fat? Check.
    Lack of social skills? Check.
    Smells? Check.

    Congratulations, you are a Linux expert.
  • I can't offer any constructive reply, but it's certainly flattering no end that Novell would ask this question on /.

    Thanks!

  • Certification is important but.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by morelife ( 213920 ) <f00fbug@post[ ]O ... t ['REM' in gap]> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:39PM (#7285814)
    Only one small part of it.

    In the business climate, you should only be considered a "Linux specialist" if you have designed, deployed, maintained, or extended production Linux platforms in real life.

    Additionally, there should be some track record, say over two years, of professional or technical services delivery either in Linux or another Operating Platform, UNIX, not Windows or Novell.

    Finally and most importantly, should be able to provide at least two business references resulting from completed or ongoing projects.

    All this would be Real [TM] as opposed to say, the Microsoft "Partner" thing where you need 2 MCPs on staff, a fee, and, uh, that's all.

    To my mind, the successful business reference is the best certification anyone can have.
  • Can they successfully install debian on the first try?
    • Oooh, that's a tough one. I've been using Slackware for years, and I haven't had much luck installing Debian.

      Actually, that's not really true: I can get stable installed and working, but then I have the sick feeling I've gone back in time. Trying to upgrade to "unstable" or "testing" is where things went awry for me.

      --RJ
  • They should be able to pronounce "Linux" properly as well as its originator's name.

  • What do you mean? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MisanthropicProggram ( 597526 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:42PM (#7285845)
    The article isn't very specific - to me anyway. The article is vendor specific and if you want an OSS job you need to know generic issues:

    Network security - ALL protocols (esp. TCP/IP)

    Network Architecture

    Platform Integration - including (yuk!) Windows

    I don't want to be a TROLL, but it's working out that way. I need people who can put together a NETWORK - NOT be a vendor specific cooky cutter LAN. The more you know about everything (networking) the more it helps to justify hiring you.

    I know, it's a CATCH 22 deal these days -(I used to be a coder - and I got sick of it.) There's a lot of us ex-techies who are now PHBs because we couldn't take ( or didn't want to deal with) the current climate in the IT industry and we know TRUE skills when we see them.

    I don't even know if this is even on topic based on the article...

    WTF?

  • Yes there is a important thing. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Yaa 101 ( 664725 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:42PM (#7285849) Journal
    Do this ten times and then ask yourself the same question...

    http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/

    If you really did this all by hand and got a nice working bare system you really know what drives a GNU/Linux machine.

  • linux/novell working together (Score:3, Interesting)

    by b17bmbr ( 608864 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:45PM (#7285870)
    one, it is nice to see novell embrace linux, provide a groupwise interface, and make linux desktop, through ximian, an option. great job. but funny thing is that at my school district, which uses netware, i've been playing nicely with novell for some time.

    i had got my linux box at school (couldn't stand those damn win98 POS they give us) up and running, and used ncpmount to mount my novell share, and got our attendance and grade programs (SASI) to run through wine. now, one day our district technidiot comes into my classroom, going through his usual hardware inventory, etc., and he notices the district computer collecting dust in the corner (hell, it was a P200 i think). so, he takes a peek, and notices that i am running SASI on this weird desktop. he can't figure out how i can get linux to work with the network, how i could run sasi, how i could connect to the internet. poor fella.

  • I'd look for systems-level engineering skills. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cduffy ( 652 ) <charles+slashdot@dyfis.net> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:52PM (#7285912)
    Most of the really, really good Linux folks I've dealt with have been people involved with embedded systems or OS-level programming as well as a reasonable level of sysadmin-style and coding skills.

    If I were grilling someone for a "senior Linux expert" position, my interview would probably include the following:

    - Describe the scheduling algorithm the Linux kernel presently uses.
    - Describe the differences between NFS, CIFS, AFS, Coda, Intermezzo -- and how you'd pick the appropriate one for a given environment.
    - Answer a pop quiz about the kernel itself (How is the input core designed? Which filesystems have no limit on the number of inodes? How does the preemptive scheduling algorithm work? Under what circumstances is it undesirable? What's the first thing you do if you get an OOPS?)
    - Be familiar with the system's boot process and how to resolve problems relating to it. (What search order does the kernel use when searching for an "init" process?)
    - Be able to build an initrd to preload I/O drivers (ie. for booting off a firewire drive)
    - Have a solid understanding of the linker, the environment variables and search paths it uses, etc.
    - Be able to track down simple bugs in kernel drivers (implications: the candidate must be fluent in C, have some familiarity with the kernel's source base, and know how to use tools such as ksymoops and possibly one of the available kernel debuggers)

    Of course I'd also be looking for fluency in at least a few scripting languages (and LDAP queries), an understanding of the tools and libraries underlying GNOME (which we use here) [so I'd want someone understanding GConf, Bonobo, and the like], and so forth. Personally, I'd probably include a series of questions about revision control tools as well, and I'd look for at least a passing fluency with SQL (as a great many popular services backend into SQL databases, it's become rather necessary as a sysadmin skill as well as something important to developers and DB specialists).

    Now, are all these skills going to be needed on a regular basis in someone who's just (say) in a sysadmin role? Of course not. On the other hand, the advantage of having someone who understands how things work under the hood is that when they *do* get something really weird jumping out at them, they'll be able to understand what the problem is and *get it fixed*.


    Personally, though, I'm not sure what value I see in the whole certification thing. Someone with the kind of skill range I mentioned above typically won't *need* a piece of paper to demonstrate what they know -- it'll be visible in the code they release, in their posts to public mailing lists (Google is your friend!), and in their survival of an actual, proper, face-to-face grilling.

    • Your questions touch onto subjects even a lead admin will likely never use and fails to cover essentials like:

      MTA configuration: postfix, exim, qmail, sendmail.
      Cluster management: DRBD, heartbeat, arp.
      User deployment: openldap, nis, kerbos.
      Systems management: cfengine, webmin, perl, bash.
      DNS: Bind8/9.
      Security: Snort, tripwire.
      Web: apache, zope, mod_php, mod_perl.

      Of course if you expect your interviewie to know all the above, plus all the stuff you listed I sure hope the position you're hiring for pays 6 f

  • Make your own or not? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Stinking Pig ( 45860 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @07:52PM (#7285915) Homepage
    Evaluate the existing certification programs: LPI and RHCE, any others out there. Look at their methodologies and tests, interview certified engineers, see what you think.

    If in your opinion they're certifying wankers instead of quality engineers, you'll need to do your own certification program. The CNE was a pretty decent program IIRC.

    IMHO you'll find that LPI and RHCE are pretty good programs and are probably good enough to run with or to build your own program around.

    On a side note, I certainly hope Novell can make a comeback.
  • As one who did v2.11 installs/administration back in the late 80's, I would like SNIPES certification for all new novell certified persons. Think of the bored admins. Put the fun back into network management :)

    Enjoy,
  • That no supplier company will do anything about it.... CERTIFICATIONS MEAN NOTHING MORE THAN THOSE WITH THEM CAN PASS TESTS WELL! That being said, the most meaningful exam sets ever given in the *NIX community were the Sun Interactive exams, where you were told to do things, then had to do them in a simulated environment (a virtual OS really). How you got there didn't matter, just that it worked. Dunno where that code ended up, it was from SunSoft when that was a division that had their own training sep
  • Work with these guys [lpi.org] very competent and has a global view.

    The Linux Professional Institute (LPI) serves the community of Linux and open source software users vendors and developers, in the interest of increasing and supporting professional use of such software throughout world. LPI will seek to improve the skills and resources of Linux and open source professionals, by providing services and setting standards which are relevant, of high quality and widely accessible.

  • Real linux specialisation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by too_bad ( 595984 ) * on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:03PM (#7285985)
    Its sad that novell dumped their Unix division just when I joined them, and then
    they are embracing Linux few years after I dumped them :)

    That apart, I think if Novell is really serious about Linux and Linux specialists, please
    do not follow RHCE or any other certification. You should identify what aspects
    of linux concerns you most. Then identify the contributions made by the concerned
    parties to this field. Also, IMHO, it is much more sensible to identify specialists with
    their contributions to the open source community. Redhat certification is very
    commercialised, and is for people entering Linux to prove their worth to the world.
    What you are looking at is to identify real specialists, many of who may not even bother
    to prove themselves to anybody, and their works speak for them.

    Identify broad areas such as:
    Linux Kernel (Accomplished in kernel development)
    Linux Device (Someone who is a wizard in getting any device working on Linux)
    Linux Installation (Someone who can troubleshoot all kinds of installation problems,
    who knows, redhat, debian, gentoo and what not on the back of their palm)
    Linux Application (Someone who specialises in applications, KDE/Gnome, etc.)
    Linux Ultimate (Accomplished in all the areas)

    Now come up with different titles such as Specialist, Master, Guru etc. These titles identify the
    extent of their skills. A Linux Kernel Guru might indicate kernel developer whereas Linux Kernel Specialist
    might refer to someone who is good at managing patches, troubleshooting the kernel, installing modules etc.

    Of course, people who have not contributed to open source should be able to prove themself by either
    working with Novell on some projects, or by taking some certification exams. I think it is necessary to differentiate the two categories.

    Infact if Novell starts a centralised Linux forum to attract newbies and experts to discuss (like linuxquestions.org) it will be easy to identify the gurus by their contributions and newbie testimonials.

    Hope this helps.

    • identify what aspects of linux concerns you most. Then identify the contributions made by the concerned
      parties to this field. Also, IMHO, it is much more sensible to identify specialists with their contributions to the open source community. Redhat certification is very
      commercialised, and is for people entering Linux to prove their worth to the world.

      I'm baised as hell, since I teach RHCEs. That said, developerment and systems administration are very different skills. Most developers make poor system adm

  • forget certifications for now, use real people (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kaan ( 88626 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:08PM (#7286016)
    I don't know a single technical person who is a) reasonably good at what he does, while b) being certified as such. Said another way, all of the people I know who have a clue about any specific technology are almost certainly not the people who hold any formal certifications in that area. By and large, I don't see much evidence that the technical community in general thinks too highly of certifications. Sure, some certifications can be difficult to achieve, and can be crafted in such a way as to filter out everyone but the experts. But creating such a test would be difficult to do, and it would take a lot of time to evolve (especially something so diverse and varied as 'Linux'). And even once you get there, you still have the problem that the technical folks don't value the certification anyway.

    From what I hear in the questions posed in the original post, it sounds like there is a group of non-technical people who are searching for a way to bless some small subset of the technical crowd. I think it would be far wiser to hire some technical people to do this job for you. If you're still committed to building a certification process, get your technical people to do it for you. Posting on /. is a good step towards getting useful feedback, but I think the right step would be to source a few tech heads (full-time, contract, whatever) and task them with the problem.
    • ...partly because if someone who has been in IT for more than ten minutes went out and got a commercial certification on everything they are skilled in, they would spend more than they would getting two Bachelor's degrees, a Master's and a Ph.D. from a private university.

      What gives? Oh, I'm sorry you've been doing that for more than decade (or several) and/or have a string of degrees that cost tens of thousands of dollars and represent thousands of hours of specialized education that required passing hundr
  • Certianly nothing Novell about that question...

  • Two cents on certifications (Score:5, Insightful)

    by digitalhermit ( 113459 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:11PM (#7286042) Homepage
    Very interesting question. Five years ago I would have said that certifications were about as useful a predictor of knowledge as swirling tea leaves in a cup. I've seen some really good MCSEs with a thorough knowledge of networking and their specialties and just as many who can't properly subnet a network. Five years ago, anyone who was seriously into Linux was *usually* a competent sysadmin in their own right and didn't need a piece of paper to prove it.

    I think this has changed. There are a lot more people getting into Linux for the money than there has ever been before. This has upsides and downsides. Upside -- Linux is growing. Downside, it's no longer an arcane science. I can live with the downside though.

    Alas, we peddle our skills to non-technical types who don't understand that a cram session and the ability to prepare for a test does not predict the knowledge of a consultant or future employee. They, for good or bad, use keyword filters or head hunter resume databases to choose candidates. Those who have magical letters on their resume get noticed. The rest, regardless of knowledge, get filtered out before ever being seen by a human.

    So are Linux certifications a good thing? Maybe. If done right and don't end up as a certification mill as happened with the MCSE, then sure. They can help show a certain level of competency and could ensure that the certificate holder has the broad level of knowledge required to pass the test. In the next five years I'd expect that more executives will start asking for some certification anyway.

    This will only work if the certification process in itself does not become an industry. The cost of taking the test should be low (under $150) but it must be difficult. Ideally it would include a practical, hands-on section instead of a bunch of multiple choice questions. The course work should be openly available and reflect not only real-world knowledge but some theoretical and philosophical aspects of using Linux.

    • Those who have magical letters on their resume get noticed. The rest, regardless of knowledge, get filtered out before ever being seen by a human

      Good point.

      Here's a sugesstion:
      On your resume, put a statement that says ..'Although I do not have my CCNA, CCNP, MCSE, A+, EIEIO. RHCE etc. I do have the following skills....' and the filters should pick you up!!!
      :-)

    • Re:Two cents on certifications (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tyler_larson ( 558763 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @11:51PM (#7287584) Homepage
      It's been my unfortunate experience that those whose titles contain the word "Certified" tend to lag far behind the rest of us in the industry. In school, the hackers studied Computer Science or Electrical Engineering and learned how to make computers work. The dropouts from these majors who just couldn't hack it (those who wanted the jobs but didn't have that special gift that lets you think like a computer) switched instead to "Information Systems" in the business school.

      Instead of learning how to make a computer work, there they learned how to work a computer. I.e., they learned how to use the programs that we learned how to create. Their programming coursework was graded on effort rather than effectiveness. The program they wrote didn't have to work (or even compile), it just had to look right. And yet, interestingly enough, part of this particular university's I.S. program was to complete the MSCE coursework and obtain certification.

      Now that's scary.

      You may be thinking that this is nothing special--network administrators don't need to know how to write programs, right? Well, immagine hiring an MSCE who can't even write a working batch file--but who can at least recognize one 80% of the time! This gets even more complicated in the *NIX world, where customization means script writing. Certification requires you to have more or less the same understanding of computers as someone like me has of quantum physics: memorized well enough to pass the test, but not necessarily understood enough to remember it next week.

      Those of us with real computer skills never bothered to take those certification tests because they cost money and meant nothing (after all, the CS and EE dropouts are all certified). Do I really want to be placed in the same catagory as THEM? Those of us real admins who are actually certified only did it so they could pass the resume word search.

      And yet, it's useful to know who understands system administration and who doesn't. Certification was a stab at making such a devision. It's relied on heavily by HR departments everywhere, despite the fact that it means so little in practical terms, because the HR department doesn't know any better.

      But the truth is, IT certification is a flawed system at its very core. Certification is based on book work and tests--neither of which you'll find in the real world. It doesn't have to be that way, and here's why:

      IT Certification should work like Pilot Licensing

      In order to fly an airplane, you need to know the books, but you also need to know how to fly--that means extensive practical knowledge that can be demonstrated to an examiner in an actual airplane thousands of feet above the earth. You can't cram for that test.

      In the same way, certified Linux experts should be able to demonstrate practical skills, not just pass tests. For example, a Linux system administrator should be able to write (in just a few minutes) a simple script to parse 300 log files looking for a specific pattern. He should also be able to modify the boot scripts such that a custom executable runs after (and only if) the network is brought online, but before any remote login programs start. They should be able to customize a firewall, build and install a kernel module, examine a syslog file, and maybe even configure xdm. And the stuff that he demonstrates has to *actually work*, not just look right.

      I dare say that any of the existing certification courses will have a well-thought-out curriculum, and probably cover all the necessary aspects of system administration. However, knowing the location and purpose of the rc.sysinit script doesn't mean that you know how to customize it to do your bidding. Certified engineers may know "what", "where", and even "why". But only experience and practice teaches you "how". And knowing how is a mandatory component of being useful.

  • Certifications are stupid. To pass the certification exam, you have to memorize stuff like which key does what in the fdisk screen, when it's all written right there. Instead of learning how to really administer the system.

    Instead of certifications, just figure out how good someone is at getting results quickly and effectively for various types of problems that involve Linux as a solution and you've got a winner.

  • Linux distributions vary so much that is hard to say that anyone is an expert on every distribution. The LPI is good well rounded cert and the RHCE are somewhat well rounded but focus primarily on RedHat. The best thing to do would be to come up with your own Novell cert that had varying levels based on the configuration of the Novell distro. A good starting point is the Linux Administration Handbook. This has a solid base of knowledge that most linux admins should know.
  • How about requiring them to be a Debian maintainer? ;-)
  • Certifications mean nothing.

    I mean it.

    Linux is moving WAY TOO FAST to invest 5K in certification, to learn a PRODUCT.

    Look at a persons resume, and identify WHAT they have done with Linux, and what was accomplished.

    I can't repeat this enough. Certification is almost worthless. The industry moves so fast, that competency in a PRODUCT won't cut the mustard .

    Next to check is REFERENCES. Dial dial dial talk talk talk to coworkers, bosses, even customers if you can get a hold of them.

    Ultimately a person

  • Simple (Score:4, Funny)

    by denks ( 717389 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:38PM (#7286237) Journal
    Check on their resume if they put "GNU/Linux" instead of Linux.
  • My opinion:
    A "linux specialist" has most likely submitted at least one patch to at least one open source project. Even if this isn't a big flashy bit, it still requires knowing what pieces are doing what to know what needs patching, and then some coding skills to write the patch. This is then peer-reviewed before being accepted into the project. Even if they don't have coding skills, documentation authors/contributors also show a reasonable depth of knowlage. If you want to hire someone who knows some
  • It's simply enough put. "Linux Specialist" directly refers to someone that has specialized in providing Linux solutions. That is their area of expertise - linux. Not servers, specifically, but doing things with linux.
  • If indeed you're going to make your own certification program, here's my personal suggestion.

    Do NOT use multiple choice. Use essays.

  • A Linux specialist can mean an awful lot (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StArSkY ( 128453 ) on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @08:56PM (#7286445) Homepage
    After spending quite some time on the Golf Course with a Novell SME evangelist, I will add this comment: You want a GNU/Linux specialist. Youy want people who understand more than just the kernel. Given that assumption, I will go further.

    If you want to measure competencies, then you need to break this down into categories.

    Design Competency
    This should cover the elements of gathering the requirements from a customer, and designing appropriate hardware and software solutions for the client. It should include an assessment of their knowledge of

    • Server Design: Do they know how to spec a server, do they understand the consequences of Multi-proc, Raid and hardware choice.
    • Network design: Do they understand all of the services they need to provide to support the activities on the network
    • Security & Authentication: Do they know how to enforce password changes. Do they know what the key security holes are for key distributions and applications "out of the box"
    • Client design: What should they look at in choosing a distribution, or would they build their own. What Customer requirements should they capture to drive choices for wm and application choices.

    Implementation & Support
    This should capture if they understand the nuances of rolling out linux in an organisation

    • System Imaging: Do they have a handle of the options available for building multiple linux servers and clients for mass rollout
    • Do they know how to keep systems up to date and patched.
    • Do they know how rebuild a linux system with minimal loss and reconfiguration.
    • Application Competency: Do they understand the purpose and limitations of key applications that Novell will base their offering around.
    • Are they able to explain to your secretary how to use all of their key applications
    • Interoperability: Do they understand how get linux clients talking to Novell, Microsoft and other Unix Servers. Do they understand how to get windows workstations using linux for file sharing, and other services.

    Now the harder part is "how to you test this". As a perpetual student I would suggest that you need to do this in a multi-phase test. This will be expensive, but it will ensure that you get some level of objectivity:

    1: You write a scenario based around a real world example to assess their ability to come up with an appropriate hardware and software solution for the design components.
    2: Give them a multi-processor + Raid + Redundant PSU server and get them to install, configre and lockdown the system. Then get them to install a heap of services that you think are important.
    3: Give them 10 PC's. Get them to build an image on 1 and then roll the image across all 10 workstations. Make some of the workstations different, give them different size drives, and different network adapters. See how they adjust to the variations
    4: Bring a secretary in and get them to run a "how to use" session for the secretary. See how good they are

    Also: Note this does not necessarily need to be the one person for all skills. So be flexible and allow them to have up to 3 different people to deliver the outcome. The only limit is that only 1 person can spend time with the end-user. If you want any more ideas or thoughts, feel free to mail me: starsky AT bluecouch DOT COM DOT AU

  • Most of the certification programs do not involve working with Novell. You basically want to create one that means not only competent in Linux, but also able to to Novell and can make intelligent choices. While Redhat has a good program, LPI is distro and company neutral. That is your best bet.
  • Name a graphical Linux application that is not a game, and has a name that both describes what it does and does not begin in K, G, or X.

    That's a real test.

    the other part of the test is wether or not they think that's funny.

  • More perks (Score:3, Funny)

    by tjstork ( 137384 ) <todd.bandrowsky@ ... UGARom minus cat> on Wednesday October 22, 2003 @09:12PM (#7286576) Homepage Journal

    1) Explains why Windows processes worse than Linux processes. Check.

    2) "I can understand both Perl 4 and Perl 5". Check.

    3) Runs own SMTP server at home. Check.

    4) Chooses banks whose online service works only with Mozilla over IE. Check.

    5) Scavenges business discards for old computers because they would make good Linux Servers. Check.

    6) Does weird things to Furrbies wired into serial port. Check.

  • At last, a decent post from a Slashdot reader (Only took 168 comments). Thank you StArSkY.

    For those of you who don't know, Novell qualifications still count for a great deal in the real world of IT contracting. There is still a perception that 'real' IT professionals have a CNE (Certified Novell Engineer). The rest have an MCSE.

    Novell recently aquired Ximian. This gives them access to the XD2 desktop, Mono, Gnome development, red carpet and more.

    I think that this puts them in a very good position

  • I liked what I read in a reply about LFS install and the some from the Slackware camp. I think that a Linux expert should be able to recompile a kernel and configure the system using native GNU tools on all systems. The main problem I have with the RHCE is the fact that a lot of it seems very Redhat centered. I know that there is no way that a person could be concidered competent if a "Distro" stumps them if you can use the standard GNU tools that works on Redhat and on all other systems. All unix type skil
  • Most of the posts I've seen on here seem to take the angle that they're looking for individual credentials. That's not what I get from the question.

    Credentialing a partner (a business) should have a broader scope than having so many of this certification or that on staff. In my mind, at least, a partner would be required to spend x dollars a year keeping their internal training facilities current.

    They would also maintain legacy hardware for probably three to five years after production ends. This would al
  • What do you want? 2 choices
    1) You want someone who is a Linux Admin with Novell training.
    2) You want someone who is a Novell Admin with Linux training.

    These two may eventually converge, but they definitely start from different places. My personal feeling is that you need a "Linux Addendum" to your Novell training, so your current Novell Admins aren't left out. This would be something like an LCI over-easy + Novell tools and configuration on Linux.

    And you also need a "Novell training for Linux Admins" c

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