New Red Hat Linux Beta: Severn 450
JofCoRe writes "Just got a message from the redhat watch list today, announcing the availability of a new beta, called "Severn". Some snippets from the announcement:
What's its development status?
"It doesn't seem too horrendously in flux. Difficult at this
moment to make a specific diagnosis."
Among other things, SEVERN has: a new graphical boot, GCC 3.3, an updated 2.4.21 kernel, updated Evolution and Mozilla,
More information about the beta can be found at rhl.redhat.com. And the Release notes are found here. Looks like they have it currently labeled as v9.0.93." Update: 07/21 15:11 GMT by H : It's 3.2.3 GCC, not 3.3, as I had above.
Torrent file? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Torrent file? (Score:5, Informative)
Just the Binary ISOs [duke.edu]
How dare you steal from Redhat! (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder if a checksummed p2p system like bittorrent will ever be merged with apt.
Re:Torrent file? (Score:5, Informative)
http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/
And more specifically:
severn-i386-disc1.iso.torrent [duke.edu]
severn-i386-disc2.iso.torrent [duke.edu]
severn-i386-disc3.iso.torrent [duke.edu]
orAll severn Binary isos in one torrent directory [duke.edu]
Theres torrent linx to the SRPMS there too.
Thanx AC!
Re:Torrent file? (Score:3, Funny)
Seven? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Seven? (Score:3, Funny)
No, this is the Southern version of Seven, Severn (Score:3, Funny)
but but but.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:but but but.. (Score:2)
(shakes head) Even I got this right without looking.
"VO ist Klippy?!"
Bablefish ist ihr freund.
Re:but but but.. (Score:2, Funny)
It is 'Wo is Klippy?!' 'w' not a 'v'. Babelfish ist kein Freund.
Re:but but but.. (Score:2)
It is 'Wo is Klippy?!' 'w' not a 'v'. Babelfish ist kein Freund.
Dah you're right, and I didn't even notice when I checked Babelfish.
My grandmother would be so disappointed ;)
Re:but but but.. (Score:2)
Version numbering (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Version numbering (Score:2)
-Erwos
Re:Version numbering (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Version numbering (Score:3, Funny)
Red Hat 9 was actually a release that broke some backwards compatibility, mainly due to the new kernel threads.
It might just be that this next release is Red Hat 9.1.
Re:Version numbering (Score:3, Funny)
If it is version 10 it will almost surely be called RedHat X, as RedHat 10 would be read by all the ubergeeks as "RedHat 2". This of course also explains why Apple uses the Roman numeral, because if they didn't OS 10 would be read as OS 2, causing IBM, and by extension SCO, to sue them.
Re:Version numbering (Score:5, Insightful)
OTOH, a lot is going to depend on what their new release style is. Assuming that everyone has a broadband connection and doesn't pay for bits downloaded is... optomistic at best. Perhaps they aren't interested in anyone else as a customer (if you can't pay for a broadband connection, you're unlikely to buy an Enterprise Edition), but they might consider that developers are also an important market for them. Not so much as a source of cash, but as a source of skills that make their product useful to enterprises. And many of them *don't* have broadband connections.
Well, there's Mandrake and CheapBytes, but Mandrake is diverging more and more from the Red Hat model (nothing deep, but the tools are different, some of the directories are different, etc.) OK. There's CheapBytes. But CheapBytes (etc.) has no particular brand loyalty to Red Hat. They will sell you whatever the hot distro is. And Red Hat has explicitly told them "Don't use our name." That's fair, but it cuts down on the advertising exposure.
Altogether, I think that they still need to make boxed sets. And that if they don't then they'll regret it. But this isn't the same thing as paying stores to carry it on their shelves. That's probably something of dubious value. Perhaps they should set up a JIT manual printing, disk burning and boxing shop. And only make as many as they have orders for. They'll need to ensure that what comes out is good quality, but there wouldn't be any excess (or not much). There's a company that was trying to get a JIT book printer into bookstores (distribution of the right to copy was a problem), so they might be glad for a sale. And CD burners aren't that hard to come by, especially if your forcast is that you won't need thousands of copies.
Re:Version numbering (Score:2)
Had they used kernel version 2.6.0-test1, I would have agreed with you. But going from 2.4.20 to 2.4.21 really isn't that big a step. Consider that there are more differences between the kernel which came with the distribution and what you will soon be running if you just keep up with the security updates. For example RH7.1 when released was using kernel version 2.4.2-2, if you have installed the security updates, you will now b
Re:Version numbering (Score:3, Informative)
So when they released "Redhat 7" did you consider it a bad sign then as well? There was no 7.0 -- there was 7, 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3. Any reference to "7.0" was either not following the official Redhat naming scheme or was changed after 7.1 was released.
As has been stated many times before (to no apparent effect... but this is
Re:Version numbering (Score:4, Informative)
You say that like it's a bad thing to have decent package management software (urpmi[e,i,q,f] and rpmdrake), multiple 3rd-party software "media" available (plf.zarb.org, jpackage.org), a sane library naming convention (so you can happily have two versions of the same library installed), solid community involvement (yes, some contributors who know their stuff maintain packages in the main distribution), and an open development process (the cooker distribution itself, the mailing lists, cvs, wiki).
Actually, with their recent announcement, it seems more like RH is converging on the Mandrake model
Re:Version numbering (Score:3, Informative)
Versions (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Versions (Score:2)
For all I know, it may go from 9 to 10, because of the big changes in project direction - see here [redhat.com]. But, when the major number changes, it's due to a major change, that much is certain.
Re:Versions (Score:5, Informative)
Standard release practice, we won't know if it's a 9.1 or 10 until they release it =)
Also they went RH8 to RH9 with no point release because there binary breakage in the packages (major system changes) which made lots of RH8 packages incompatable with the latest release
Re:Versions (Score:2, Informative)
It is a damn confusing name. Eleven wouldn't be much better, so I say skip to twelve.
"...updated Evolution..." (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:"...updated Evolution..." (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"...updated Evolution..." (Score:3, Interesting)
But maybe not since the first version of GTK (the Gimp Tool Kit) had everything that Gimp needed. Why would they bother upgrading. Just guessing.
Re:"...updated Evolution..." (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"...updated Evolution..." (Score:2)
I don't think so. I installed a GTK2 version of Gimp on Gentoo last week. I know this for a fact because I do not have GTK1 installed. I'm pretty sure it is beta, but still GTK2. Called the politically incorrect version, according to the splash screen.
No Galeon? (Score:5, Interesting)
I also like the option of a graphical boot... soothes the nerves of less-knowledgable people who will wonder why X, Y, or Z service is coming up.
Hopefully they'll add some more graphical configuration stuff for the system. I've always liked their style with it.
-Erwos
Re:No Galeon? (Score:5, Funny)
I've never understood why this is so. Even back in the day when I was a clueless newbie, I found those messages to be really cool. It was like the computer was doing...cool computery things, just like in the movies.
Re:No Galeon? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No Galeon? (Score:2)
AND they get great looking people to operate the machines.
Mmmmmm...Carrie Ann Moss (drools)
Re:No Galeon? (Score:2)
Perhaps, but most of the time it's just some pseudo-technical looking text scrolling past in some fancy graphical font (see The Matrix).
When Windows '95 came out, some of the trade publications were drooling over the fact that the computer no longer booted up into "scary DOS messages", instead displaying therapeutic pictures of clouds. Bleh. At that point I decided Windows was ghey, and started to apprecia
Re:No Galeon? (Score:4, Funny)
Also keep in mind that things like VESA were still new and shiny when Linux first came about. So at best you would have a 640x480x16color bootup instead of text messages.
Might as well have them. What I find lacking are the joke messages with useless twirling
like
pruning IP lateral sensors.......done
establishing networking matrix...../
Just to throw people off. Plus it would be funny to see how many "IT experts" that "read about many things" will go about talking about it. "Yeah, well my Duron 4Ghz can establish the network matrix faster than your 200Mhz ARM box... hahaha!"
Tom
Re:No Galeon? (Score:5, Insightful)
The graphical representation of the bootup info makes the user 'understand' more and makes it less intimidating.. Much like a GUI makes a computer easier to use then text mode programs
Re:No Galeon? (Score:4, Insightful)
it is confusing and/or intimidating;
So computers are going the way of automobiles.
In the old days, you'd have an oil pressure gauge and an oil temperature gauge and you'd be able to tell pretty quick not only if something was wrong, but have a good idea of exactly what was wrong. And you'd be able to fix it yourself.
But scary technical looking gauges on automobiles have gone away. Now, you'll get complicated behind-the-scenes Boolean evaluation from multiple sensors feeding into a microprocessor that results in a "Check Engine" light, which will mean that you'll take it into a specialist for precise diagnosis and repair. You probably won't repair it yourself.
The analogy continues.
My old Honda had a Check Engine light that would flip on going down steep hills for extended times (sounds suspiciously like the sensor was in the back of the oilpan, eh?) but would reset if I turned the car off and restarted it. And guess what most people do to their Windows computers start displaying "Check Engine" lights? You got it - power cycle!]
I'm one of the people that likes the more detailed diagnostics, even if they give a scary impression of a high performance race car about to explode to the casual user (My God - look at those packet collisions!)
Let distro makers hide those messages behind clouds or penguins, but make it real easy to see those diagnostics and you'll get a lot more backyard mechanics improving the vehicle.
As a piece of advice for distro makers that hide behind soothing graphical "Check Engine" lights: make sure your system readily handles sudden, abrupt power cycling at any time, but especially after encountering other problems.
Re:No Galeon? (Score:3, Informative)
You don't. [gentoo.org]
Re:No Galeon? (Score:3, Insightful)
Epiphany sucks (Score:4, Interesting)
It's also still rife with bugs, eg. the toolbar does not work correctly using the "text beside icons" setting in GNOME.
Furthermore, it's been dumbed down to a point where it is below the level of complexity most casual web users want - excluding the confusing bookmark functionality. If you like using tabs, Epiphany has made a wreck of them. The options for opening new links in tabs, etc. have all been removed.
Frankly, I don't think they know WTF they're doing...
I invite anyone who knows more about Epiphany than me to correct anything that is factually incorrect.
Re:Epiphany sucks (Score:3, Informative)
There is an option to open links in tabs by default. Which I have turned on and clicking the middle mouse button on links opens them in tabs. Not sure if that is what you wanted.
As far as
Re:No Galeon? (Score:2)
According to this [mozdev.org] screen shot taken from the website, it does - at least in version 0.80.
The meaning of Severn (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:5, Informative)
9 was named "Shrike". This beta is "Severn". Both are characters from Hyperion.
In Hyperion, Joseph Severn was a cybrid reconstruction of the deceased 19th-century poet John Keats.
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
I think the Hyperion connection is more likely, though.
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
It could be named after this.
Phil
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The meaning of Severn (Score:2)
I might just setup a RH machine again if they did that
What About Kernel 2.6.x? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it possible to have 2.6.x (or even 2.5.75) as an option for the installation? Of course I woluld like it.
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? (Score:2)
Re:What About Kernel 2.6.x? (Score:4, Informative)
http://people.redhat.com/arjanv/2.5/ [redhat.com]
These files are also setup as an apt repository if you read the readme.txt file.
Not sure if they will work with the beta.
slight correction... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:slight correction... (Score:5, Informative)
The GCC you see mentioned in the release notes is 'gcc32', the backward compatible compiler (used forinstance to compile the kernel and much of the compat-* packages).
The default compiler which is also used to compile the normal packages is gcc 3.3
Shame such an incorrect correction made it as story update
OpenOffice.org (Score:3, Interesting)
Wasn't the purpose of having 2 products (commercial and community) to offer the latest and greatest software? I hope Red Hat will include OOo 1.1 in the next beta.
Why Severn? (Score:3, Interesting)
Just finished reading Hyperion and I was wondering if there might be a link with "Joseph Severn".
Re:Why Severn? (Score:2)
Re:Why Severn? (Score:2)
However, it is the Forth bridge. The nearly-a-number names got me confused.
Re:Why Severn? (Score:3, Funny)
J.
Re:Why Severn? (Score:2)
Re:Why Severn? (Score:2)
Well, considering the last release was named "Shrike" that's not much of a stretch.
Nothing too impressive (Score:3, Informative)
Removal of lprng and sndconfig might cause a few grumbles but otherwise nothing remarkable here.
Re:Nothing too impressive (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I think this is bad. I've run into situations where GRUB just couldn't handle the configurations I needed to do. And changing hardware on GRUB can sometimes force one to a boot disk where it shouldn't be necessary.
Now pine IS on the removed list, ACK!! Guess it's time to pick a new mailer, but man, a decade old habit is hard to break.
Re:Nothing too impressive (Score:2)
I got exposed to mutt a few years back when we moved to a freebsd machine at UK for the student unix server, that and zsh were the two things I absolutely loved about that machine from the command line compared to our old HP-UX machine (ksh and pine)
Disappointed (Score:3, Offtopic)
I was hoping for a quick, clean install of a modern Linux OS to port my software over to (which uses OpenGL, so the binary drivers were a must), but I crashed and burnt. Many times over, even after tweaking my BIOS and following all available tips I could find on forums.
Sigh.
I found the nVidia drivers quite easy to install (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, and a suggestion: Don't try running your system at default runlevel 5 when messing with the video. Use runlevel 3 and startx.
Re:Disappointed (Score:3, Interesting)
Redhat is HQ'ed in the south, you know (NC) (Score:3, Funny)
RH Dev Manager: "Hey y'all - how many lines-a-code did we find copied over from-a UNIX?"
RH Dev'er: "Urrmmm... looks like about severn er ait to me, hoss."
RH Dev Mng: "Well'um then, that there's the next ree-leease name then. Severn."
Laptop mode, yes! (Score:5, Informative)
The Red Hat Linux 9.0.93 kernel now includes support for laptop mode. When placed in laptop mode, the kernel batches disk I/O, allowing the disk drive to become idle long enough for the drive's power-saving features to take affect. This can result in significant increases in battery runtime.
Considering I used to do most of my development while on batteries, this is great! (Gotta love the dell 7000 with its 7 hour batteries!)
Doens't appear to have ALSA yet ... (Score:5, Informative)
Chris
install PlanetCCRMA ... its worth it. (Score:3, Interesting)
while planetccrma might take you an hour or two to install and configure, its AWSOME... i love it. once its up and running its so much slicker than windows or macos for keeping your audio environment up to date.
bascially planetccrma is a multimedia distro on top of redhat (7.3, 8.0 or 9.0). it gives you a new kernel with alsa and the low latency + preemptive patches built in. plus it uses Apt-Rpm so installing and updating all those constantly developing linux audio apps is dead simple.
nando, the guy
Free continues (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it's just the pressure for profitability, but I continue to be blown away at RedHat's committment to Free Software and community commitment. These guys have a huge share of the GNU/Linux commercial market and yet they continue to be as open as is possible for a for-profit company.
They have invested a ton of effort into software now distributed by most other distributions (GNOME, RPM, kernel development, graphics, etc.). I don't mean that there aren't others playing, too. But it seems every time I expect RedHat to start trying to greedily hawk their enviable position, they do just the opposite.
Thanks RedHat!
Severn, eh? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Severn, eh? (Score:2)
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast -- for it is a human number: its number is six hundred and sixty Severn.
GCC 3.2.3 AND 3.3? (Score:2)
Have they fixed the menus (Score:3, Interesting)
I have RH8 at home, and the there seems to be a decided lack of any way to add items to the menu structure.
There also seems to be no easy way to get a snapshot of the desktop or of an app window.
Re:Have they fixed the menus (Score:2)
xwd -root -display [target_ip]:0 | xwud -display [your-ip]:0
for an instant looksee at what your mates are doing...
Some mirror sites have the beta (Score:2, Informative)
I can see the support calls now... (Score:5, Funny)
Severn.
Seven?
No, Severn.
You need 9.
I am using 9.
You said Seven!
No, I said Severn. Severn is a version of Nine.
Click.
What's the next version going to be called - Sicks? Hey chaps, here are some more great ideas for names: Fayiv, Fower, Thur-hee, Tahoo, Wun, Zilch, Miner Swan.
Re:I can see the support calls now... (Score:5, Funny)
It's a marketing ploy, pure and simple. What geek wouldn't want to "beta test" Severn of Nine?
The end of RedHat as we know it (Score:5, Interesting)
With this release, the Red Hat Linux product is becoming the Red Hat Linux Project -- an openly-developed project designed by Red Hat, open for general participation, led by a meritocracy, following a set of project objectives.
Looks like the old setup of 2 boxed sets (personal and professional) is going, as is the x.0, x.1, x.2 release cycle. This means they can break binary compatibility with each release. Also means that despite the fact that RH officially stops supporting this relase afer 1 year, package maintainers will be responsible for their own bug-fixes, not RH. Check out the article on The Register [theregister.co.uk] for more info. Looking at the package list, it looks too bleeding edge (Apache 2.045, PHP 4.32) for server use. If you want to keep with Apache 1.3x, then your only choice is RHES. Goodbye RedHat, it was good while it lasted.
Re:The end of RedHat as we know it (Score:2)
Q: Will Red Hat Linux be sold in retail?
A:The Red Hat Linux releases will not be sold through the retail channel as a shrinkwrapped box; the design of the project, with the potential for s
Re:The end of RedHat as we know it (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The end of RedHat as we know it (Score:4, Insightful)
Or, if you actually know something about Unix, you can download and install Apache 1.x.
I'm pretty tired of so-called Systems Administrators who can't seem to actually do anything on their own. If it doesn't come in a RPM, they can't manage to install it. If you're not one of those people, quit your whining about how Apache 1 doesn't come with Redhate, and go download the source and build it yourself. For the only moderately lazy, there's always apacheconf.
boost (Score:2, Interesting)
soup++
Packaging (Score:3, Funny)
About time (Score:2)
Product --- Project ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
pine gone? (Score:5, Informative)
Among them:
pine (I've just finished, after 8 years or so) getting used to this thing after the migration from elm. Does this mean I finally have to use mutt?
tripwire. I know lots of people didn't actually use this, but it's really important and the fact that redhat integrated it really raised its visibility.
postgresql72. what's going on here? are they running a more recent version and simply removing the old one?
Re:pine gone? (Score:3, Informative)
Pine has always had licensing issues, and it's widely accpeted that Pine fans can be appeased with Mutt and something like Pine2Mutt [icewalkers.com] (which is simply an import script or two and the pine.rc that comes with Mutt.)
Re:Just so I know... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Is it binary compatible with RH 9.0? (Score:4, Interesting)
One issue that might affect some people is the exec-shield anti-stack overflow technology, which
most notably doesn't play will with wine and alsalib (latter might be fixed nowadays, alsalib used to use a gcc feature that made it place code on the stack).
You can easily disable it through
here [redhat.com]
Re:Not so exciting (Score:2)
Re:Not so exciting (Score:2)
Anyway, I'm using the Mac to get my wife off of MSWindles, with the definite goal of eventually moving her to Linux. But Li
Re:Actually i preffered RH 8 (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, I have to concurr. although I also found RH8 to be much faster than RH8, RH9 literally crawls in comparison to RH9. I long for the good old days, when RH7 was just as fast as RH7. Vendor like Redhat need to make sure that they can maintain performance within any singel version...
If you were using RH7, it certainly would have been fast enough to capture that missing "s"...