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Red Hat Software Businesses Linux Business

New Red Hat Linux Beta: Severn 450

JofCoRe writes "Just got a message from the redhat watch list today, announcing the availability of a new beta, called "Severn". Some snippets from the announcement: What's its development status? "It doesn't seem too horrendously in flux. Difficult at this moment to make a specific diagnosis." Among other things, SEVERN has: a new graphical boot, GCC 3.3, an updated 2.4.21 kernel, updated Evolution and Mozilla, More information about the beta can be found at rhl.redhat.com. And the Release notes are found here. Looks like they have it currently labeled as v9.0.93." Update: 07/21 15:11 GMT by H : It's 3.2.3 GCC, not 3.3, as I had above.
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New Red Hat Linux Beta: Severn

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  • by jsvesnik ( 553230 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:03AM (#6490510)
    Where's the torrent file?
  • Seven? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:03AM (#6490511)
    Didn't RedHat 7 get released already? I am so confused.
    • Re:Seven? (Score:3, Funny)

      by hafree ( 307412 )
      It's been at least a month since Redhat 9 was released, shouldn't we be on release 13 or so by now? Of course that would mean that Redhat officially stopped supporting anything prior to 11 or 12 by now...
    • You know how it works . . . "Shutting Down" becomes "Shutt'n DO'n", "ssh" becomes "pipe-DO'n Bo'", and when KDE (err, bluecurve) starts, you hear a fiddle a play'n in the background.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:04AM (#6490513)
    (heard all over Munich) "Ver ist Klippy?!"
  • by erlando ( 88533 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:05AM (#6490527) Homepage
    With RedHat's latest sprint version wise (7.3->8.0->9.0) it's probably a safe bet to say that this release is going to be RedHat 10.0. Or maybe "RedHat X"? Roman numerals are popular this time of year.. ;o)
    • It's just 9 now, not 9.0. So, really, "version sprinting" is only cosmetic, unless you consider i++ a huge jump. I don't.

      -Erwos
    • That would be better than RedHat XP...
    • That is not safe bet to say at all.

      Red Hat 9 was actually a release that broke some backwards compatibility, mainly due to the new kernel threads.

      It might just be that this next release is Red Hat 9.1.
    • With RedHat's latest sprint version wise (7.3->8.0->9.0) it's probably a safe bet to say that this release is going to be RedHat 10.0. Or maybe "RedHat X"?

      If it is version 10 it will almost surely be called RedHat X, as RedHat 10 would be read by all the ubergeeks as "RedHat 2". This of course also explains why Apple uses the Roman numeral, because if they didn't OS 10 would be read as OS 2, causing IBM, and by extension SCO, to sue them.
  • Versions (Score:2, Redundant)

    by avalys ( 221114 )
    What happened to their versioning system? I thought they were moving towards purely integer-based releases. Shouldn't this be RedHat 10 Beta?
    • No, the reason for the jump from 8.0 -> 9 was due to the introduction of NPTL.

      For all I know, it may go from 9 to 10, because of the big changes in project direction - see here [redhat.com]. But, when the major number changes, it's due to a major change, that much is certain.

    • Re:Versions (Score:5, Informative)

      by mahdi13 ( 660205 ) <icarus.lnx@gmail.com> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:13AM (#6490595) Journal
      The RH9 beta was also called 8.0.93 as this is 9.0.93

      Standard release practice, we won't know if it's a 9.1 or 10 until they release it =)
      Also they went RH8 to RH9 with no point release because there binary breakage in the packages (major system changes) which made lots of RH8 packages incompatable with the latest release
    • Re:Versions (Score:2, Informative)

      by deanpole ( 185240 )
      The next Red Hat will be "X" in October. Look for books [barnesandnoble.com]

      It is a damn confusing name. Eleven wouldn't be much better, so I say skip to twelve.

  • by jvmatthe ( 116058 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:06AM (#6490540) Homepage
    I didn't see anything in the notes about this (sorry if I missed it) but is this a GTK2 version? This is the last GTK1 app that I'm still using, and I'd love to upgrade if a GTK2 version is included in this install.
  • No Galeon? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Erwos ( 553607 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:06AM (#6490543)
    I see that they removed Galeon. How does Epiphany stack up to it right now?

    I also like the option of a graphical boot... soothes the nerves of less-knowledgable people who will wonder why X, Y, or Z service is coming up.

    Hopefully they'll add some more graphical configuration stuff for the system. I've always liked their style with it.

    -Erwos
    • by Xpilot ( 117961 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:13AM (#6490597) Homepage
      I also like the option of a graphical boot... soothes the nerves of less-knowledgable people who will wonder why X, Y, or Z service is coming up.

      I've never understood why this is so. Even back in the day when I was a clueless newbie, I found those messages to be really cool. It was like the computer was doing...cool computery things, just like in the movies.

      • Re:No Galeon? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by baywulf ( 214371 )
        Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.
        • Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.

          AND they get great looking people to operate the machines.

          /homer mode on

          Mmmmmm...Carrie Ann Moss (drools)

          /homer mode off

        • Yes but in the movies they do cool computery things except with lots of flashy graphics around it.

          Perhaps, but most of the time it's just some pseudo-technical looking text scrolling past in some fancy graphical font (see The Matrix).

          When Windows '95 came out, some of the trade publications were drooling over the fact that the computer no longer booted up into "scary DOS messages", instead displaying therapeutic pictures of clouds. Bleh. At that point I decided Windows was ghey, and started to apprecia
      • by tomstdenis ( 446163 ) <tomstdenis&gmail,com> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:27AM (#6490697) Homepage
        Funny or not, same thing here.

        Also keep in mind that things like VESA were still new and shiny when Linux first came about. So at best you would have a 640x480x16color bootup instead of text messages.

        Might as well have them. What I find lacking are the joke messages with useless twirling /-\| thingies...

        like

        pruning IP lateral sensors.......done
        establishing networking matrix...../ :-)

        Just to throw people off. Plus it would be funny to see how many "IT experts" that "read about many things" will go about talking about it. "Yeah, well my Duron 4Ghz can establish the network matrix faster than your 200Mhz ARM box... hahaha!"

        Tom
      • Re:No Galeon? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by chabotc ( 22496 ) <chabotc&gmail,com> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:50AM (#6490940) Homepage
        I think you put your finger right on the problem.. For people who are not intimidated it's 'cool' but for many others not understanding it is confusing and/or intimidating; They don't understand computers and prob. don't want to..

        The graphical representation of the bootup info makes the user 'understand' more and makes it less intimidating.. Much like a GUI makes a computer easier to use then text mode programs ;-)
        • Re:No Galeon? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by 4of12 ( 97621 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @11:35AM (#6491248) Homepage Journal

          it is confusing and/or intimidating;

          So computers are going the way of automobiles.

          In the old days, you'd have an oil pressure gauge and an oil temperature gauge and you'd be able to tell pretty quick not only if something was wrong, but have a good idea of exactly what was wrong. And you'd be able to fix it yourself.

          But scary technical looking gauges on automobiles have gone away. Now, you'll get complicated behind-the-scenes Boolean evaluation from multiple sensors feeding into a microprocessor that results in a "Check Engine" light, which will mean that you'll take it into a specialist for precise diagnosis and repair. You probably won't repair it yourself.

          The analogy continues.

          My old Honda had a Check Engine light that would flip on going down steep hills for extended times (sounds suspiciously like the sensor was in the back of the oilpan, eh?) but would reset if I turned the car off and restarted it. And guess what most people do to their Windows computers start displaying "Check Engine" lights? You got it - power cycle!]

          I'm one of the people that likes the more detailed diagnostics, even if they give a scary impression of a high performance race car about to explode to the casual user (My God - look at those packet collisions!)

          Let distro makers hide those messages behind clouds or penguins, but make it real easy to see those diagnostics and you'll get a lot more backyard mechanics improving the vehicle.

          As a piece of advice for distro makers that hide behind soothing graphical "Check Engine" lights: make sure your system readily handles sudden, abrupt power cycling at any time, but especially after encountering other problems.

    • Re:No Galeon? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by leifm ( 641850 )
      In my limited experience with RH9 they had covered most of the bases as far as GUI config stuff goes, but those frontends could definately be more intuitive and less prone to crashing. I'd actually rather see the current GUI config things mature a bit rather than adding more new ones.
    • Epiphany sucks (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Ender Ryan ( 79406 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @11:48AM (#6491387) Journal
      Not to flame, but IMNSHO, Epiphany is a big step in the wrong direction. Galeon was doing great - the gtk2 version is very stable, has nice features, and is completely uncluttered and not in the least confusing. Epiphany has added some really weird bookmark functionality; it basically allows you to put bookmarks in many categories, which is nice in principle, but in practice it really slows down people who use bookmarks a lot. There is no bookmark toolbar functionality, and the bookmarks open in a separate window instead of having a nice quick menu... Bookmarks are a very simple thing, and the Epiphany crew is overengineering it to the extreme.

      It's also still rife with bugs, eg. the toolbar does not work correctly using the "text beside icons" setting in GNOME.

      Furthermore, it's been dumbed down to a point where it is below the level of complexity most casual web users want - excluding the confusing bookmark functionality. If you like using tabs, Epiphany has made a wreck of them. The options for opening new links in tabs, etc. have all been removed.

      Frankly, I don't think they know WTF they're doing...

      I invite anyone who knows more about Epiphany than me to correct anything that is factually incorrect.

      • Re:Epiphany sucks (Score:3, Informative)

        by hexix ( 9514 )
        Your comments on the bookmarks sytem use to be true, but they now have a bookmarks menu item like other browsers. The bookmarks system still works how it use to, categorize bookmarks into topics. This means each topic will show up as a bookmark folder in your bookmark list, and you can't have it deeper than 1 folder.

        There is an option to open links in tabs by default. Which I have turned on and clicking the middle mouse button on links opens them in tabs. Not sure if that is what you wanted.

        As far as
  • by morcheeba ( 260908 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:09AM (#6490560) Journal
    I'm not sure if this is what they intended, but this picture [fcfighter.com] comes up with google images... I'll just stick with 8, thank you.
  • by C0deJunkie ( 309293 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:10AM (#6490568) Homepage Journal
    Since the promising 2.6 is alredy in a test phase [kernel.org], I would wait a couple of week to avoid the infamous module-related issues [theaimsgroup.com] to upgrade a 2.4 kernel.
    Is it possible to have 2.6.x (or even 2.5.75) as an option for the installation? Of course I woluld like it.
  • slight correction... (Score:4, Informative)

    by eupheric ( 618980 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:10AM (#6490569)
    From the release notes, it seems Severn uses GCC 3.2.3, not 3.3.
    • by chabotc ( 22496 ) <chabotc&gmail,com> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:53AM (#6490968) Homepage
      Incorrect. Like older redhat's did, it ships with two GCC compiler sets.

      The GCC you see mentioned in the release notes is 'gcc32', the backward compatible compiler (used forinstance to compile the kernel and much of the compat-* packages).

      The default compiler which is also used to compile the normal packages is gcc 3.3

      Shame such an incorrect correction made it as story update
  • OpenOffice.org (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Znonymous Coward ( 615009 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:11AM (#6490577) Journal
    According to distrowatch [distrowatch.com], this release still has OpenOffice.org 1.0.2

    Wasn't the purpose of having 2 products (commercial and community) to offer the latest and greatest software? I hope Red Hat will include OOo 1.1 in the next beta.

  • Why Severn? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fastfwd ( 44389 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:12AM (#6490582)
    Anyone know why it's called Severn?

    Just finished reading Hyperion and I was wondering if there might be a link with "Joseph Severn".
  • by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:14AM (#6490600) Homepage Journal
    Lilo is removed from the packages *shrug*

    Removal of lprng and sndconfig might cause a few grumbles but otherwise nothing remarkable here.
    • lilo is deprecated, not removed. This means it is still there, but will probably be removed in the future.

      Personally, I think this is bad. I've run into situations where GRUB just couldn't handle the configurations I needed to do. And changing hardware on GRUB can sometimes force one to a boot disk where it shouldn't be necessary.

      Now pine IS on the removed list, ACK!! Guess it's time to pick a new mailer, but man, a decade old habit is hard to break.
      • Now pine IS on the removed list, ACK!! Guess it's time to pick a new mailer, but man, a decade old habit is hard to break.
        I got exposed to mutt a few years back when we moved to a freebsd machine at UK for the student unix server, that and zsh were the two things I absolutely loved about that machine from the command line compared to our old HP-UX machine (ksh and pine)
  • Disappointed (Score:3, Offtopic)

    by Sludge ( 1234 ) <slashdot@@@tossed...org> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:18AM (#6490633) Homepage
    I installed RedHat 9.0, and it wasn't able to autodetect or otherwise utilize my configuration: GF4 ti4200 w/ dual monitor setup (21" + 19"). Installing the latest Nvidia binary drivers as-is caused hard lockups on boot (read: no num/caps lock or ping replies), despite many attempts.

    I was hoping for a quick, clean install of a modern Linux OS to port my software over to (which uses OpenGL, so the binary drivers were a must), but I crashed and burnt. Many times over, even after tweaking my BIOS and following all available tips I could find on forums.

    Sigh.

    • by Vengeance ( 46019 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:22AM (#6490657)
      RH9.0, nVidia .bin driver installer, it was foolproof and easy. A tainted kernel was a small price to pay, IMHO.

      Oh, and a suggestion: Don't try running your system at default runlevel 5 when messing with the video. Use runlevel 3 and startx.
    • Re:Disappointed (Score:3, Interesting)

      It's not your BIOS, it's most likely the AGP on your mobo. There was a bunch of work on the nVIDIA related AGP code in the post 2.4.20 kernel series, particularly 2.4.22. Depending on your mobo and kernel patches RH applied to 2.4.20, this could explain your problems. The 2.4.21 series in general hasn't been anything to brag about -but- stability is getting much better again as of 2.4.22-pre3 (haven't tried pre7 yet). You may want to try 2.4.22-pre7 to see if it solves the lockup issues for you.
  • by drgroove ( 631550 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:22AM (#6490655)
    I can just imagine the process of coming up w/ the new release name...

    RH Dev Manager: "Hey y'all - how many lines-a-code did we find copied over from-a UNIX?"

    RH Dev'er: "Urrmmm... looks like about severn er ait to me, hoss."

    RH Dev Mng: "Well'um then, that there's the next ree-leease name then. Severn."

  • Laptop mode, yes! (Score:5, Informative)

    by morcheeba ( 260908 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:24AM (#6490675) Journal
    At the end of the release notes is this gem:

    The Red Hat Linux 9.0.93 kernel now includes support for laptop mode. When placed in laptop mode, the kernel batches disk I/O, allowing the disk drive to become idle long enough for the drive's power-saving features to take affect. This can result in significant increases in battery runtime.

    Considering I used to do most of my development while on batteries, this is great! (Gotta love the dell 7000 with its 7 hour batteries!)
  • by LizardKing ( 5245 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:29AM (#6490714)
    Someone with the bandwidth to download this might be able to confirm this, but it appears that the beta doesn't come with ALSA. A shame for those of us who like RedHat, but want to use the latest MIDI apps "out of the box".

    Chris
    • while planetccrma might take you an hour or two to install and configure, its AWSOME... i love it. once its up and running its so much slicker than windows or macos for keeping your audio environment up to date.

      bascially planetccrma is a multimedia distro on top of redhat (7.3, 8.0 or 9.0). it gives you a new kernel with alsa and the low latency + preemptive patches built in. plus it uses Apt-Rpm so installing and updating all those constantly developing linux audio apps is dead simple.

      nando, the guy

  • Free continues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by digitect ( 217483 ) <(digitect) (at) (dancingpaper.com)> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:36AM (#6490770)

    Maybe it's just the pressure for profitability, but I continue to be blown away at RedHat's committment to Free Software and community commitment. These guys have a huge share of the GNU/Linux commercial market and yet they continue to be as open as is possible for a for-profit company.

    They have invested a ton of effort into software now distributed by most other distributions (GNOME, RPM, kernel development, graphics, etc.). I don't mean that there aren't others playing, too. But it seems every time I expect RedHat to start trying to greedily hawk their enviable position, they do just the opposite.

    Thanks RedHat!

  • Severn, eh? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Darth_brooks ( 180756 ) <clipper377@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:39AM (#6490822) Homepage
    Sounds like quite a beast.
    • Woe to you, oh linux user, for RedHat sends the beast with wrath, for he knows the time is short.

      Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast -- for it is a human number: its number is six hundred and sixty Severn.

  • The release notes [redhat.com] list package gcc32 (which is version 3.2.x). The Package List [redhat.com] list gcc and gcc32 as packages. gcc is listed with version 3.3 and gcc32 as 3.2.3, so I can only assume that you can have both. Probably configure which on using gcc-config, though that doesn't look like it is listed in the package list.
  • by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:47AM (#6490924) Homepage Journal
    Have they added the ability to alter the Gnome menus in a fashion that does not require binary editing the inodes with a needle?

    I have RH8 at home, and the there seems to be a decided lack of any way to add items to the menu structure.

    There also seems to be no easy way to get a snapshot of the desktop or of an app window.

  • Visit mirrors [redhat.com] to find a site close to you.
  • by jazman ( 9111 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:51AM (#6490954)
    So what version of Red Hat are you using?
    Severn.
    Seven?
    No, Severn.
    You need 9.
    I am using 9.
    You said Seven!
    No, I said Severn. Severn is a version of Nine.
    Click.

    What's the next version going to be called - Sicks? Hey chaps, here are some more great ideas for names: Fayiv, Fower, Thur-hee, Tahoo, Wun, Zilch, Miner Swan.
  • by pyrotic ( 169450 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @10:55AM (#6490979) Homepage
    From the changelog:

    With this release, the Red Hat Linux product is becoming the Red Hat Linux Project -- an openly-developed project designed by Red Hat, open for general participation, led by a meritocracy, following a set of project objectives.

    Looks like the old setup of 2 boxed sets (personal and professional) is going, as is the x.0, x.1, x.2 release cycle. This means they can break binary compatibility with each release. Also means that despite the fact that RH officially stops supporting this relase afer 1 year, package maintainers will be responsible for their own bug-fixes, not RH. Check out the article on The Register [theregister.co.uk] for more info. Looking at the package list, it looks too bleeding edge (Apache 2.045, PHP 4.32) for server use. If you want to keep with Apache 1.3x, then your only choice is RHES. Goodbye RedHat, it was good while it lasted.
    • Anyone who had to work this weekend and hanged around Slashdot saw this post [slashdot.org]. Apparently, Red Hat has launched the Red Hat Linux Project [redhat.com], and that's why we have seen stories of the boxed version stepping out of the retail channel (it means, you will not buy a CD-Rom with RH for $ 40 on Amazon). According to their FAQ:

      Q: Will Red Hat Linux be sold in retail?

      A:The Red Hat Linux releases will not be sold through the retail channel as a shrinkwrapped box; the design of the project, with the potential for s

    • If you want to keep with Apache 1.3x, then your only choice is RHES.
      Or compile from source.
    • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Monday July 21, 2003 @01:35PM (#6492491) Homepage Journal
      If you want to keep with Apache 1.3x, then your only choice is RHES. Goodbye RedHat, it was good while it lasted.

      Or, if you actually know something about Unix, you can download and install Apache 1.x.

      I'm pretty tired of so-called Systems Administrators who can't seem to actually do anything on their own. If it doesn't come in a RPM, they can't manage to install it. If you're not one of those people, quit your whining about how Apache 1 doesn't come with Redhate, and go download the source and build it yourself. For the only moderately lazy, there's always apacheconf.

  • boost (Score:2, Interesting)

    hm, boost [boost.org] seems to be there... hopefully things like gtkmm will start making their way in so c++ developers don't need to download half-of-the-world before they can start coding...

    soup++
  • Packaging (Score:3, Funny)

    by treyb ( 9452 ) on Monday July 21, 2003 @11:15AM (#6491119)
    They should wrap it in a spandex-skinsuit theme, make it boot WINE by default, and call it release Severn of Nine.
  • It's about damn time Red Hat came out with a new version. I've been toiling on 9 for several months now and I need that new version of Mozilla. Debian could learn a lot from Red Hat's release cycle because it comes with Mozilla 1.0 and it would suck to be using Debian and stuck with an old browser.
  • by mnemotronic ( 586021 ) <mnemotronic.gmail@com> on Monday July 21, 2003 @11:20AM (#6491151) Homepage Journal
    From the release notes:
    the Red Hat Linux
    product is becoming the Red Hat Linux Project.
    Followed (here [redhat.com]) by all kinds of softer,gentler "public forum" and "outside participation" words. I admittedly don't get out from under my bridge very often, but does this signify a fundamental shift in how RH is doing development? Are they becoming a not-for-profit?? Hey, I'm a microsoft masochist, and any kind of altruism just confuses me....
  • pine gone? (Score:5, Informative)

    by tmu ( 107089 ) <todd-slashdot@renesys . c om> on Monday July 21, 2003 @11:52AM (#6491435) Homepage
    Crap. The notes page points out several cool new packages (including acpid for power management and the dvd+rw tools for dvd mastering. But several important packages are falling by the wayside.

    Among them:

    pine (I've just finished, after 8 years or so) getting used to this thing after the migration from elm. Does this mean I finally have to use mutt?

    tripwire. I know lots of people didn't actually use this, but it's really important and the fact that redhat integrated it really raised its visibility.

    postgresql72. what's going on here? are they running a more recent version and simply removing the old one?

    • Re:pine gone? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Plug ( 14127 )
      Red Hat have been moving, as part of this big shakeup, to remove everything non-Free from their distribution - including contributing to an open source Java, I believe.

      Pine has always had licensing issues, and it's widely accpeted that Pine fans can be appeased with Mutt and something like Pine2Mutt [icewalkers.com] (which is simply an import script or two and the pine.rc that comes with Mutt.)

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