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Caldera Linux Business

SCO Taking Linux Discussion To Japan 463

Posted by simoniker from the son-of-godzilla dept.
levin writes "EETimes is carrying a new story about our good friend Darl McBride, CEO of SCO. His latest escapades include a trip to Japan in response to the CE Linux Forum initiative undertaken by several big-name Japanese tech firms such as Sony and Toshiba. He's putting his famous tainted code dog-and-pony show on parade, trying to influence some of the major CELF founders."
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SCO Taking Linux Discussion To Japan More

SCO Taking Linux Discussion To Japan

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  • Too Bad... (Score:5, Funny)

    by JoeLinux ( 20366 ) <joelinux.gmail@com> on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:23PM (#6385451)
    ....I guess that means he'll have to accept his AssHat Award by proxy.
    • I wonder if he'll get lampooned in Japan by the IT people there like he has here in the US and the rest of the english speaking world. If I only spoke Japanese....

      • Re:Too Bad... (Score:3, Informative)

        by Megane ( 129182 )
        Ano gaijin wa aho desu ka?

        Iie, oshiri boushi to iimasu ne.

        • Re:Too Bad... (Score:5, Funny)

          by rworne ( 538610 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @06:26PM (#6386646) Homepage

          Ano gaijin wa aho desu ka?
          Iie, oshiri boushi to iimasu ne.


          I commend your use of keigo but it isn't totally warranted in this case.

          Ano yatsu aho ka?           (Said to friend)

          Chigau, ketsu-boushi da.           (oshiri is polite form like "bottom" or "butt". Ketsu is more vulgar, closer to the meaning "ass". I've never heard Japanese refer to the sphincter as ohshiri-no-ana, only as ketsu-no-ana, anaru, or komon)

          If you are wondering where I picked most of this up, you get to learn a lot in Akihabara watching some kids teach Sega's Seaman to talk in Japanese.

    • Re:Too Bad... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gcalvin ( 325380 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:10PM (#6385993) Homepage
      The EETimes article makes several mentions of SCO's "Unix patents", as if patent infringement were at the core of this controversy. I was under the impression from the other articles I've read that the issues were 1) breach of contract (with respect to IBM) and 2) copyright infringement (with respect to everyone else, including the 1500 recipients of letters from SCO). This is the first mention I've heard of patents. Is it really about patents, or is Charles J. Murray (the article's author) deserving of an AssHat Award too?

  • Does anyone out there still use SCO Unix? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ACK!! ( 10229 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:23PM (#6385455) Journal
    For what?

    I remember we use to use this EMC datamovers on the controller server that was hooked up to the things. Besides that, I knew of only one other company that used them.

    • Yeah, I use SCO as my server platform, and WinXP for my desktop. I'm a /. rebel, baby!
      • Nothing funny about that, I'm in exactly the same boat. For some reason management has the idea that a system that lasts for 15 years without upgrades is a *GOOD* thing...

      • meh! (Score:3, Funny)

        by danro ( 544913 )
        Yeah, I use SCO as my server platform, and WinXP for my desktop. I'm a /. rebel, baby!

        If you were a true rebel, you'd be using WinXP as a server and UnixWare (or some other SCO-crap) as a desktop.
        Imagine the pain.
    • FilePro. We use it for a FilePro database that runs our entire accounting operations. I dunno why. Maybe I should mention to them that FilePro runs on Linux now. (duh).

      • FilePro. We use it for a FilePro database that runs our entire accounting operations. I dunno why. Maybe I should mention to them that FilePro runs on Linux now. (duh).

        Wow, I thought we were the only bass-ackwards organization that did that. We're trying to migrate away from FilePro, as it's retarded in ways that makes the short-bus riding childrens parents cringe in horror and shock.

        We regularly get to make SCO jokes, though. Still not any form of consolation for having to have programs actually run on that shit.

    • Re:Does anyone out there still use SCO Unix? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Jeremy Erwin ( 2054 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:37PM (#6385632) Journal
      Just finished converting my home's systems from Debian to OpenServer. Cost me a bundle, but I figure it's important to support organizations that defend IP rights.

      • Re:Does anyone out there still use SCO Unix? (Score:5, Informative)

        by packethead ( 322873 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:15PM (#6386035)
        Apprently some still do. A lot of bricks and mortar type companies run their manufacturing systems on Openserver. They are generally low-tech firms to begin with and have no plans to budget for any upgrades, nor should they - for what they do.

        Now. Any company that requires, HA/failover/performance, etc. Needs to *not* be running OpenServer. Netconfig requires a re-link and reboot anytime you breathe on it. THe package manager is this thing called 'custom', which is anything but customizable. SMP? Gigabit Ethernet? Journalized filesystem? I think not! Maybe the Military can use it, considering that Colonel Panic and Major Re-install are part of the core functionality.

        UnixWare is better, but it ain't Solaris.

    • Yes. Over 700 servers mainly on OpenServer 5.0.5 and 5.0.6.
    • Our point of sale system is running on SCO. Replacing it this winter woohoo :)

      With a M$ system :(

      I do like to bash Microsoft but sometimes their products make sense.

    • Re:Does anyone out there still use SCO Unix? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by shadowbearer ( 554144 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @06:52PM (#6386847) Homepage Journal
      The Ace Hardware down the street still uses SCO OpenServer Release 5 for their POS systems. I was talking to the owner last week and he showed me their new POS they are phasing in....running Windows XP. He didn't have very kind words for SCO tech support.

      SB
    • Lots of people still use SCO Xenix, let alone Unix, for things like point of sale and proprietary management systems such as for delivery tracking. Probably the biggest company doing the latter, ADAQ, was purchased by Mobile Information Systems which has a Sun/Solaris package to do the same thing, with GUI tracking of GPS-enabled trucks and so on, so they have probably transitioned just about everyone off the old package, and there's probably like two people supporting the old users, and no one issuing fixes.

      The thing is that these mom and pop operations dropped a few grand on a 386, a five user Xenix license, and this software package and as long as it works, they'll keep using it. Not to mention it's a minicomputer, they just get to use dumb terminals which are available at garage sales and whatnot, rather than having to have PCs. The package does everything, including financials and such, so why use something else? When the hardware fails and they find out they can't run 386 Xenix on modern hardware and they need a SCO license, then they decide they might as well buy a used Sparc or something, and that's the time to transition. However I do recall assisting one customer on transitioning to SCO Unix on a Pentium 2 instead of going to the other product. Poor bastard.

      However the point remains that if it ain't broke, why screw with it? If you're trying to make any kind of customizations, then you would like a much better OS, especially something better-supported. If you're just using something for a turnkey system, then you want something with low overhead and high stability, and while SCO Unix doesn't really fit the bill there in either category, good old SCO Xenix was amazing. Unix on a 286 in 1mb of ram, installed in 20mb of disk is nothing to sneeze at. Of course there are older examples of Unix on even lesser hardware, and there's always Minix but hell, it's almost as restricted as Xenix :P

  • What is a "Central Module"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dr. Smeegee ( 41653 ) * on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:24PM (#6385464) Homepage Journal

    "I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel," said Enderle of Giga Information Group, who viewed the alleged code violations two weeks ago. "The lines of code contained typos, misspellings and even copyright disclaimers. It appeared to constitute a violation of the license."

    Where can I get me one of these central modules?

  • More icing on the Cake... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jdh-22 ( 636684 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:24PM (#6385465)
    Why do we keep posting articles that we know are only to impose FUD on the Linux/Open source community?

    • Re:More icing on the Cake... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by missing000 ( 602285 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:35PM (#6385608)
      Why do we keep posting articles that we know are only to impose FUD on the Linux/Open source community?

      Because it is very useful to have an informed community for the media to talk to.

      You have to remember that the SCO fight is not only in court, but also largly in the court of public opinion.

      If a user is contacted by the press, it is incredibly advantageous for them to be well informed of the allegations as well as the actions of the parties making them.

      Even if we win in court, which I for one assume we will, the damage to linux adoption could be enormous if we come off as unknowledgeable and ill-prepared.

      If, on the other hand, linux users are seen as well prepared and educated, we could even stand to make gains in the business community.

      This SCO stuff is anything but trivial.

      • Re:More icing on the Cake... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by GoofyBoy ( 44399 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:43PM (#6385724) Journal
        >If, on the other hand, linux users are seen as well prepared and educated, we could even stand to make gains in the business community.

        Actually, thats what Programming/OS/CPU wars start. One group thinks they know more/their facts are "more" right.

        To an outsider, you risk the chance to look like a shallow individual who seems to take delight in arguing petty details.

        Just wait until the facts of SCO case are fully public.

        Note:this is an article about a trip the CEO made to Japan. Is there really anything new here?
        • >If, on the other hand, linux users are seen as well prepared and educated, we could even stand to make gains in the business community.

          Actually, thats what Programming/OS/CPU wars start. One group thinks they know more/their facts are "more" right.

          How's that again? I don't think a positive public image has ever been started by a Programming/OS/CPU war. Becoming a good advocate for your cause can hardly be a bad thing.

          To an outsider, you risk the chance to look like a shallow individual who

    • Re:More icing on the Cake... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gaetano ( 142855 ) * on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:35PM (#6385611)
      I think its important to be well informed about these things so that we can fight it. Most slashdoters know the score but people reading the articles that slashdot links to, such as this one, may not know the score. Those people may be managers and have questions so perhaps they come to their sysadmin, a slashdoter, and since he is well informed he can fight the FUD.

      Otherwise there is a vaccume created by the FUD and we don't want it to be filled with yet more FUD, so we have to fill it with the trueth.

      • It's also important to be able to aim someone at Slashdot so they can pick up on what is current without having to search the archives.
        Old story rolls off the front page.
        New story rolls onto the front page.
        While there's a storm in progress the storm tracking stays up. If there's nothing new to be said, then simply reiterate the old.
        • Mod parent+ up.

          It's very important that Slashdot stays on top of this, so that people in the IT world who *are* following it know that we are very, very seriously concerned about what is going on (and seriously pissed off).

          This cannot be a fly by night sort of thing. It has to be, and will be, fought to the death. SCO's death. Hopefully any other companies out there who consider these sort of public FUD tactics will have second thoughts after this is all over. (I'm NOT mentioning any names, they know wh
    • ... "must have latest SCO FUD fix."

      For the /. community it is nice to have a new evil around besides that of Micro$oft.

    • I must say, personally, I rather regret the paucity of recent SCO stories; I was enjoying a pleasurable frisson every time I checked Slashdot, wondering what the next hilarious turn in the story would be.

      Anyone know when something will actually happen, as opposed to someone giving an interview?

  • where next after Japan (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:26PM (#6385485)
    I think he should take his show on over to Iraq - you don't wanna let them violators get a foodhold there!

  • The Headline Makes it seem like..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dr Reducto ( 665121 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:27PM (#6385502) Journal
    The headline makes it seem like they are trying to get as many countries to discredit SCO's claims, before they get there.

  • Here... sign this. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tbase ( 666607 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:27PM (#6385505)
    "McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman."

    I wonder if he's dumb enough to think they'll sign a non-disclosure?

  • We are done with SCO. (Score:5, Funny)

    by bazik ( 672335 ) <bazik&gentoo,org> on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:29PM (#6385527) Homepage Journal
    We had two Compaq Proliant servers at work, running SCO Unix. We reinstalled them with Linux three weeks ago and sent back all SCO CD's, handbooks etc. to SCO with a little note that we dont want to use Software from a Company which can't write good code and sues those who can.

    Curious why we didn't receive a response yet ;)

    • You are doomed now .. they know who you are ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheViffer ( 128272 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:42PM (#6385713)
      "The 1,500 companies who received letters from SCO [about potential infringements] should be worried, big time," said Rob Enderle, a research fellow for the Giga Information Group (Santa Clara, Calif.). Based on what he saw, Enderle said, "The evidence appears to be very compelling."

      Prepare for the leter with very compelling information.

      Ahh lets cut the crap right now.

      All SCO would need to do is publish one example of where Linux has there source code here to slashdot and it would probably sway 50% of the /. viewers in a second (and if you mention WMD or politics here, you should get modded down to obliteration)

      I would very much like to see one of these 1500 letters and this very compelling information.

  • NDA? (Score:2, Redundant)

    by OECD ( 639690 )

    From the article: McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman.

    I wonder if they're going to have to sign the NDA? And is McBride going to charge them?

  • This leaves one big question... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Krapangor ( 533950 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:33PM (#6385583) Homepage
    ...why does nobody stop these ridiculus claims of SCO ?
    It can be done as it has been already proven in Germany.
    Nobody can make false accusations without giving proof. Any Linux distributer or the EFF or other interest groups can sue them. And if one does this SCO would to have to show the code or STFU.
    It also raises the question why IBM doesn't do this.

    The only sensible explanation for this strange behavior seems to me that SCO has some (perhaps weak) point and such a countersuit would fail. It seems to me that some of the players in this game have much more knowledge then they admit openly.

    • Re:This leaves one big question... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      IBM wants a court decision saying that Linux is untainted by SCO or AT&T code, so they don't want to do anything that will cause SCO to collapse like a house of cards *before* they get that judgement. Afterwards....
    • My best guess, aside from your explanation, is that letting SCO dig themselves deeper is satisfying for a few reasons:
      • Emotionally satisfying
      • Source of amusement for *nix community
      • When/if something happens to "stop these ridiculous claims of SCO," the more evidence against them and the more anti-SCO feeling present, the more likely action will be taken

      In short, by waiting we allow SCO to alienate more groups and increase the chances of a decisive victory, legal or otherwise. If various groups were to

    • The courts will do that in the US. As soon as this hits a court-room there are one of two outcomes I expect: 1) it gets thrown out on the basis that SCO has spent so much time trying this case in the court of public opinion that a court decision would be a meaningless adjunct to SCO PR 2) SCO is made to shut up for the duration of the case. I think 2 is far more likey, but SCO's in for a nasty bit of bonking on the head for their behavior.

      Judges don't tend to be fond of those who would use their courts for

    • Re:This leaves one big question... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Zathrus ( 232140 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:13PM (#6386014) Homepage
      Because you'd be a damn fool to do so.

      As it stands, SCO will have to prove that IBM broke its trade secret agreement, which is going to be a damned difficult thing for SCO to do. They're alleging copyright infringement as well but, and this is important, have yet to file a claim in court about any infringement whatsoever. Until they do so what exactly are you going to sue them for? Libel? Good bloody luck. You'd then be on the wrong side of the table -- you'd have to prove that their claims are false without ever seeing any of their documentation. Enjoy! You'll lose that case in a millionth of the amount of time the SCO/IBM case will take. If you even make it to day 2 in court I'll be amazed.

      Here's the deal though -- since SCO is bringing the case against IBM they will have to disclose ALL relevant information on the case to IBM. And presumably to the public, unless they somehow get the record sealed (and SCO does not have the political might that AT&T had in the AT&T/Berkeley case). The claimant is not allowed to spring surprises on the defendant in the US court system -- the defendant, being presumed innocent, is privy to all the claims being brought against them as well as all evidence to support those claims. The same is not true in reverse -- IBM can bring out evidence to counter SCO without SCO's lawyers having ever seen it before (this, however, is generally considered bad form and frowned upon not only by the other lawyer, but also the judge -- judges don't like having their time wasted and any such evidence should be shared with the claimant in order to avoid having the case go to trial in the first place).

      IBM may bring a countersuit against SCO, but in order to do so they'd have to show some substantive damages to their business model... not a very easy thing to do, particularly when you're the size that IBM is. It also complicates matters, and if IBM thinks they have a solid case they may not feel the need to bring a countersuit... easier just to shut them down quickly rather than turn an already long and complicated case into an even longer and more complicated case. Countersuits seem to be used most often when neither side has a particularly strong case.

      It seems to me that some of the players in this game have much more knowledge then they admit openly.

      Welcome to reality.
      • I know this is a stupid nit to pick, but...

        Until they do so what exactly are you going to sue them for? Libel?

        If SCO is going overseas and telling by word of mouth, it's slander. If they print it in book, or magazine or paper or something, it's libel. A newspaper reporting news on what someone else said isn't exactally libel, as the newspaper isn't saying it, but repeating what's spoken.

      • the defendant, being presumed innocent, is privy to all the claims being brought against them as well as all evidence to support those claims.

        You mean presumed "not liable". This is a civel case, not a criminal case.

        The same is not true in reverse -- IBM can bring out evidence to counter SCO without SCO's lawyers having ever seen it before...

        No. In a civil case, the discovery rules allow either party to examine the other's records.
    • ...why does nobody stop these ridiculus claims of SCO ? It can be done as it has been already proven in Germany. Nobody can make false accusations without giving proof. Any Linux distributer or the EFF or other interest groups can sue them. And if one does this SCO would to have to show the code or STFU. It also raises the question why IBM doesn't do this.

      Several reasons:

      - it costs money to sue. Without a reasonable expectation of a return of that money in the form of an award for damaages, it's a po

    • Standing (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 )
      My non-lawyer understanding is that US courts can be really unwelcoming if you're not directly affected. A judge might say "Has SCO sued you? Sent a cease-and-desist? Have they even mentioned you by name? No? Then mind your own business".

      US courts are also Very Expensive. Anyone who jumped in now would be doing IBM's work for them, and paying kerjillions of dollars to do so.

      What IBM gains by waiting is that every time an SCO executive opens his mouth, IBM's lawyers have one more thing to cross-examine him

  • Japanese fluency (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Fratz ( 630746 )
    "McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman."

    Something tells me that he won't need to use his Japanese much to understand their response. Laughter transcends language, after all.

  • In a related story (Score:5, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:34PM (#6385590)
    (AP) In a related story, SCO took its fight against Linux to Antarctica. Little is known of the results, except that there are rumors of significant reductions in the penguin population."

  • Evidence of someone else's common code? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fly ( 18255 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:35PM (#6385612) Homepage
    "I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel," said Enderle of Giga Information Group, who viewed the alleged code violations two weeks ago. "The lines of code contained typos, misspellings and even copyright disclaimers. It appeared to constitute a violation of the license."
    Whose copyright?!? Surely, if is a GNU copyright notice, then SCO shouldn't be claiming the code. If it is a SCO copyright notice, then GNU/Linux should have noticed it already. If it is another BSD or other copyright, then what the heck is SCO trying to pull?
    • Whose copyright?!? Surely, if is a GNU copyright notice, then SCO shouldn't be claiming the code.
      Just because someone slaps a GPL on someone's code and distributes it, that doesn't take away the owner's rights. Whether or not SCO gave away their copyright when they distributed Linux is something of a grey area.

      • Re:Evidence of someone else's common code? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by NecroPuppy ( 222648 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:59PM (#6385898) Homepage
        Right, but follow me here.

        If there is something in SCO code that has a copyright notice, it has to be either a SCO copyright notice or someone else's copyright notice. (For the purposes of this, anything that SCO has rights to will be a considered to be an SCO notice.)

        If it is an SCO notice, then it should be very easy to find in the Linux source. Then we know what it is.

        Alternately, it is someone else's copyright notice. And if the copyright notices match, then it is code that was put into both SCO's and Linux's codebase. If it were a GPL copyright notice, then SCO is guilty of bringing code into their codebase without releasing it. I can't really believe they would be that stupid.

        Therefor, the notice must be for something that SCO thinks they have rights to. Whether this is AT&T or Novell derived stuff or something else, we don't know yet.

        The project then becomes thus:

        1) Identify all copyright notices in the Linux codebase.
        2) Eliminate all code sections with GPL notices, as that can't be in the SCO codebase (again, unless they are really stupid).
        3) Tabulate all remaining entries, and determine when and how they entered Linux. If necessary and possible, contact the contributors.
        4) Post the results, send links to the world.

        and, 5) Profit from the fact that SCO is driven into the dirt.

        • We already know what it is (Score:4, Informative)

          by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:33PM (#6386197) Homepage Journal
          Supposedly its the RCU (Read, Copy, Update) code that speeds up threading on super-highend systems. It came from Sequent which was later purchaced by IBM. The AT&T contract signed by sequent didn't have the add-on that IBM had, which said that IBM 'owned' all the software they developed. In other words, all the UNIX stuff developed by sequent before it was purchaced by IBM SCO has a rights on.

          The problem is what Sequent did was come up with the system and patent it, publishing the system in a patent, which applied to any multithreaded OS. In other words, they developed something and stuck it into their unix system, not the other way around.

          Anyway, this is only one part of the story...
  • IANAL but I seem to recall hearing once that copyright damages are supposed to be worked out using the least invasive remedy first. In other words, should SCO prove its point that copyrighted code was placed into Linux, then the code should be removed. If the code cannot be removed, then the big penalties start kicking in. Since I haven't seen any mention of this in any of hte articles I am beginning to wonder if I misheard about this concept. Any IAAL out there know?

  • What they're saying: (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jonsey ( 593310 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:39PM (#6385656) Journal
    With ... regretted appologies to Yatta!(c)(tm) (r)(dog)

    Nippon-Sue-Sue SCO-wonderful Easy-Rider-Salad-The-Mall! We didn't win so Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue!

    Now where are the guys in underwear jumping around talking about how life is good as long as they have leaves and that the economy will recover?

    Related Link: Google for Yatta. Trust me.

  • Divinyls... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:39PM (#6385659)
    When I think about SCO I touch my CELF

  • Just more evidence. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cornice ( 9801 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:39PM (#6385662)
    This is just more evidence that SCO has no intent other than to harm Linux. There seems to be nothing to gain, for SCO anyway, from this escapade in Japan.

    If this were an attempted murder, the victim would be Linux. The weapon would be SCO and the detective would now be visiting everyone with a motive. Hmmm who could that be?

  • Darl must be suicidal (Score:5, Funny)

    by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:43PM (#6385729) Homepage
    Isn't it enough to piss off one 800 pound gorilla?

    Now he goes poking another eight of them with a stick.

  • SCO just filed amendments to bylaws to indemnify (Score:5, Interesting)

    by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:46PM (#6385757)
    top execs.

    Something I read on yahoo message board.
    ----
    Specifically quoted from their FORM 8-A/A SEC filing. Last sentence of page 3 in the Bylaws section:

    "The Bylaws also provide that the Company will indemnify officers and directors against losses that they may incur in investigations and legal proceedings resulting from their services to the Company,"

    So as far as I can tell the Company could care less whether or not what they did was legal or ethical.

  • UNIX Patents (Score:5, Informative)

    by Bigby ( 659157 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:47PM (#6385767)
    "In the past three months, SCO Group, a small software company that owns Unix patents, claimed it had found chunks of its Unix code in Linux."

    I thought it was already concluded that SCO doesn't even claim to own UNIX patents. They just claim that they own the copyrights. The Novell escapade brought all of that out. EE Times needs to get their story right.

  • Easy way to fix this.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AlbanySux ( 248858 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:50PM (#6385807)
    IBM has the code to both SCO and Linux, why don't they find out the offending chunks and release a patch to romove them. The Linux community can then rewrite these peices of code and the problem goes away.

    Unless ofcourse IBM thinks that would be an admission of guilt and therefore screw them.

  • They Own C++ Too!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jobsagoodun ( 669748 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:51PM (#6385816)
    In this zdnet article (who else!) [zdnet.com] from 2002, Darly Baby says:
    "And C++ programming languages, we own those, have licensed them out multiple times, obviously"
    Watch yer arse Stroustrup! Darls coming to get you!

  • Strange trip to Japan (Score:5, Interesting)

    by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:56PM (#6385865)
    I got this post from the yahoo message boards, the guy has a good point:
    -----
    by: martin_lvnv (41/M/Las Vegas) 07/07/03 04:44 pm
    Msg: 18108 of 18112

    Has anyone considered how strange it is that Darl is going to Japan to talk to the CE Linux Forum? CE stands for consumer electronics: i.e. very small embedded systems running out of ROM most of the time without a hard drive on a small cheap processor.

    SCOs published claims both from press releases, news reports and their own complaint are about IBM putting "enterprise" technology into Linux: NUMA, JFS, RCU, SMP etc. None of these things apply in the least to embedded systems running out of ROM on a consumer electronic device. Whats up with that?

    My only guess is that SCOs arrogance knows no bounds and they think anything using a computer chip, even a toaster, has to infringe on SCOs IP.

    http://www.celinuxforum.org/PressRelease/pr02.ht m

  • Uniformed article (Score:3, Funny)

    by El ( 94934 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:58PM (#6385880)
    SCO Group, a small software company that owns Unix patents


    Uh, what Unix patents would those be?

  • Japan Impression (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shadow Wrought ( 586631 ) <shadow.wroughtNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:58PM (#6385893) Homepage Journal
    I somehow doubt that McBrides Dog and Pony show is going to have much of an impact on the CERF companies. These folks didn't just draw Linux out of a hat, they have been studying it for months now. Not only that but their lawyers have already looked at all sorts of fine print about this and concluded that the companies are OK.

    I worked on an IP case as a paralegal once that involved the Japenese Patent and Copyright office. It is an amazingly complex system over there and I doubt that SCO would be able to do anything to them even it wanted to. Even if they tried to get a UTC injunction against the importation of the Linux embedded goods, they would still be limited to getting the infringing pieces removed. While I am not a developer, it certainly seems from what I have read that replacing the offending code would not be terribly onerous.

    In the end, however, I can see potentially large blows coming to either the Linux community or SCO depending on how the companies respond to the presentation.

    • If there were anything even remotely real about SCO's allegations, then this would be extremely significant in Japan. It is not to do with the legal position. The business climate in Japan is totally different to that in the US. In Japan, ethics and probity are critical. If SCO could provide convincing evidence that their trade secrets had been infringed in Linux, Japanese organisations would take a big financial hit to avoid using it. However, they will look at any claims with a fine toothcomb before

  • f@!k the NDA I signed: many lines of code are same (Score:5, Funny)

    by binaryfeed ( 225333 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:05PM (#6385944) Homepage
    I signed the NDA and looked at the code in question with a SCO representative.

    Every few lines there was a line that was exactly the same as code in the Linux kernel source tree.

    These lines contained one and only one character: '\n'

  • Every third line of code... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PickaBooga ( 578529 ) <(squishdot) (at) (manuelmgarcia.com)> on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:19PM (#6386074)

    I am getting sick of reading this inane and insane quote:
    "I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel," said Enderle of Giga Information Group
    How the hell do you copy every third line, without copying the other two? It would be like making a knock-off of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix where I copied every third line, and I got the other two lines from the public domain Moby Dick.

    Don't even get me started on the meaningless phrase "central module of the Linux kernel".

    It would be much more believable if he just said the whole damn thing was copied. I guess he thinks it sounds more "technical" than saying 33% was copied, because he can show off that he knows "code" is made up of "lines".

    Why doesn't he just say every third byte was copied from the Evil Master Control Program, and then scoot off on his little Tron light-cycle?

    I am getting sick of hearing that quote from that jackhole of the universe.

  • Mr. Yodaiken anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by i_really_dont_care ( 687272 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:19PM (#6386082)
    "It shows how entrenched Linux has become," said Victor Yodaiken, CEO of FSMLabs Inc. (Socorro, N.M.), a maker of real-time software for Linux.

    Aah... yes. Last time I checked, FSMLabs was trying to undermine the GPL by offering kernel patches which use FSMLabs proprietary patented technology. The situation has become better due to massive intervention of the FSF since then, but is still somewhat uncertain.

    It's scary that this is a time where even the foe of our foe is not necessarily our friend.

  • Microsoft Puppet? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:21PM (#6386089)
    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though SCO has absolutely no interest in consumer electronics and embedded devices. (And yet Microsoft certainly does.) So why would SCO waste time specifically targeting an upstart organization aiming to promote Linux for consumer electronics? It's not a threat to their marketshare. Seems fishy, albeit unprovable at this stage. Granted, they may only be making as much fuss as possible.

    • Re:Microsoft Puppet? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Imperator ( 17614 )
      This is one of those cases where it's obvious what's going on, but the party that buys the lawyers and the PR firm prevents the truth from being proven in court. (Look at OJ Simpson's first trial for another example of this.) It's obvious to us that MS "bought a license" from SCO as a way to funnel money to a dying company, in exchange for which it would launch a massive FUD campaign against Linux. MS looks clean but the damage is done. SCO execs make some money. The SEC has been squeezed of funds so it won

  • Where Darl got his Japanese. (Score:5, Informative)

    by ashitaka ( 27544 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:25PM (#6386130) Homepage
    From his bio:

    From 1988 to 1996, he worked at networking leader Novell where he was responsible for growing Novell Japan's growth to more than $100 million in revenue.

    I was in Japan from 1986 to 1996. Novell went absolutely nowhere during that time. Microsoft took over the networking market. I ended up dealing only with Novell U.S. as Novell Japan was absolutely hopeless to work with. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall meeting Darl at a gaijin get-together. Just another expat executive lording over the locals.

    If he knows more Japanese than "o-kane dase" I'll be amazed.

  • I do not understand this???? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @07:08PM (#6386957) Homepage Journal
    Didn't SCO say that the "stolen" code was Enterpise stuff that Only could come from SCO. Didn't they also claim that this code was Intel based? What the heck is this all about then. Embedded systems are not Enterpise systems. A lot of Embedded systems do not use Intel CPUS. Why do I get a feeling that Sony was laughing there butts off at this guy. Well we can hope.

  • Patents my ass... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eniu!uine ( 317250 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @08:34PM (#6387520)
    Well, not literally.. SCO doesn't have a patent on my ass. Quote from article.

    McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman.

    According to the patent search I just did, there are only three patents, one by Caldera and two by Santa Cruz Operation. While they have patented some useful things, like using a network, you would not have to view code when you're trying to see if something violates a patent. Patents are about what things do, not specifically how they are built. If you had a patent on 'a method of printing "Hello World!", I could copy almost all of your code, but change mine to printf("SCO sucks"); and it would not be patent infringement. This would be a case of copyright infringement, so the question is 'why aren't they suing for copyright infringement'... if someone was infringing on my copyrights that's probably what I would sue them for. Unless, that is, I had no case whatsoever. What they are suing for is contract violation.... there is no way anyone can say jack shit about that unless they have read the contracts. What I will say though is that it is clear SCO is claiming rights to technologies: NUMA, SMP, etc. based on the fact that they were incorporated into an operating system that was derivative of Unix. This is what they do in the press.... this completely irresponsible slander.. but what they will say in court remains to be seen.

  • Let Him Keep Doing This Crap (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Master of Transhuman ( 597628 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @09:24PM (#6387812) Homepage
    It'll all be evidence against him in his "unfair restraint of trade" lawsuit that someone will no doubt bring against SCO when they lose the IBM suit...

    I predict that SCO will not be bought out and will not make big bucks suing people. I predict that THEY will be sued and brought to bankruptcy by the lawsuits within the next couple of years.

  • Amount of damage? And what about those patents? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hobsonchoice ( 680456 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @11:14PM (#6388398)
    Two things

    1. According to http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2003/city_2003-0 7-03.cfm [slweekly.com], Caldera bought DR-DOS $400K, but got from law suit $155,000,000.

    As far as I know (I guess somebody could check) they didn't purchase the UNIX source, or value it in their SEC reports, for anything like $1bn, or $3bn, let alone $50bn... so how can they claim billions of damages, if they bought it for a few millions, and valued it of the same order?


    2. I keep seeing patents in lots of news articles about the case. My understanding is the case is about alleged contractual violations, alleged trade secret issues and alleged unfair competition etc.,

    http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/showArticle .jhtml?articleID=10818216 [internetwk.com]
    "McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman"

    http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,59551,00 .html [wired.com] also has a SCO spokesman refering to patents

    So the obvious questions are:
    - Is the press getting it wrong?
    - If the press is indeed getting it wrong, why are they (and not just one news source) getting it wrong?

  • Smart Move For McBride (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @12:22AM (#6388713)
    This move just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this whole SCO escapade is publicity stunt designed to hurt Linux.

    The only way to get fluent in Japanese is to live in Japan. If the article is true and McBride is fluent, then we can assume he has spent some time in Japan and knows something about business in Japan. This means he knows, that no matter what he tries in Japan, he will get absolutely nothing accomplished as far as suing the major Japanese players is concerned.

    What he will get, however, is many industry leading, powerful corporations agreeing with him publically.

    That is the Japanese way, maintain the "wa" (harmony.) Stay in agreement publically, while internally things are very different. McBride will use this "Public agreement" of Sony, Hitachi, Matsushita, Sharp, Phillips, Samsung, NEC, and Toshiba to cast even more FUD about linux. "Hey look, IBM may not think we have a case, but the Japanese giants unanimously agreed with everything we said."

    This move is very, very smart for McBride if he plays it right. May he fry in hell.

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