This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Linus Comments on SCO v IBM
Related Links Top of the: day, week, month.
Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky
Who cares what Linus thinks? (Score:5, Insightful)
He has already said he does even think about patents, and that pretty much shows his attitude towards the whole thing.
Mozillaquest asking Linus for his comments were a typical waste of time, because everyone already knows what he is going to say.
Re:The crux of the article (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously. Did they ask for the 'people he works with's opinion? No.
Think for yourself man! Dont live through others.
Form an independant thought!
Oh wait, patrairch of the Linux community. Nevermind, just copy everyone else then.
Not too bad of a write up (Score:2, Insightful)
Spin (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that CmdrTaco left out snide comments as well as these guys just proves how stupid this whole SCO thing is. Well, it doesn't really prove anything
Very interesting how he put in into perspective - basically, SCO is alleging that Linux wouldn't be enterprise class without
which it got indirectly from SCO.
Course, that's bullshit (at least point 3, which is the only one that really matters as far as I can tell - correct me if i'm wrong).
Re:"Linus came forth"? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think so. We should all cultivate a more detached and relaxed attitude when confronted with the writhing death pains of a Corporate Dinosaur.
Not only is SCO not going to get a penny out of IBM if this went to trial (I'd like to see the battle of the expert witnesses as to whether Linux is to Unix as a Bicycle is to a Luxury Car), but they don't intend to go to trial or to do anything else other than get IBM to put some of the money the money they would of spent on a trial directly into SCO's pocket instead.
The "Slashdot thing to do" is often to start with the wailing and gnashing of teeth on every issue. Many of those issues, like this one, that sort of thing simply isn't appropriately spent on.
Linus is a smart guy. He walks softly, but carries a big stick.
Re:Who cares what Linus thinks? (Score:5, Insightful)
SMP? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozillaquest? (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember that this is Mozillaquest.
Keep breathing.... KEEP BREATHING!!!
(read some of the past articles if you don't already know, or better yet... don't).
Ho Hummm.... (Score:3, Insightful)
He basically said what everyone else knows, SCO is going to hell in a hand basket and in desperation is trying to suck more money out of IBM. The bullshit claims about linux are nothing more than that, bullshit.
Ho hummm...
Re:Who cares what Linus thinks? (Score:5, Insightful)
MozillaQuest? (Score:4, Insightful)
or maybe they intended the page to have a 3-inch margin?
Re:Should IBM buy SCO? (Score:3, Insightful)
SCO are like microsoft: a company trying to make money out of middleware. It seemed a good idea when everyone was prepared to pay for middleware, but now that's just, well, silly. Linux, Apache and to an extent the OSS Java projects (apache, jboss and sforge hosted) have helped reduce the value of middleware. Which leaves cash for the hardware vendors and the consultants. Which is where IBM fits in.
Re:From the complaint... (Score:5, Insightful)
SCO has completely missed the effects of common availability of computational resources. I remember when crossing the gigaflop "barrier" was a big deal. Today it's your average laptop. 18 years ago, a UNIX source license in a business context could cost about $125,000 (as priced by a friend of mine, working on Sequent boxes). Apparently, that's when SCO executives seem to have stopped noticing the progress of technology.
The point is something else... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dennis Ritchie Comments and Documents from (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the important thing to realize is that while different open source software camps may at times compete against each other (Linux vs. BSD, Gnome vs. KDE, etc.), in the end the diversity we have within our ranks is a very powerful asset. Had the lawsuit in 1992 turned out differently, Linux would have been an unencumbered alternative that would have allowed the movement to continue forward. Likewise, in the extremely off chance that SCO did do something to encumber Linux today, the open source community has many other fine operating systems that are alternatives and which could be a basis to continue moving forward.
IMHO, an important lesson to realize from this after it finally settles down (and I have no doubt that SCO will end up appearing kind of stupid in the end) is that the diversity in open source software is the biggest benefit and allows it to overcome these kinds of things.
Re:Economic Perspective (Score:2, Insightful)
If IBM takes this to court and points out the whys and why-nots then this suit has every possibility of being considered frivolous - depending on where it's filed, etc. IBM can make SCO pay IBM's expenses - and then what's left of that $32.9 MM won't buy a cup of coffe and a wireless browsing session at your local all night diner.
When The Smoke Clears (Score:5, Insightful)
IMHO, IBM has done a world of good for Linux. My favorite commercial remain's IBM's basketball team ad that featured the Chris Mullin wannabe wearing number 12, and the team owners discussing his role on the team.
"How can we get him to work for peanuts?"
"Because he loves the game..."
That's exactly what Linux needed - to get it's name out beyond our little Geeks-Only circle to the masses, both Corporations and the Average Joe/Jane. Now, how did that harm Linux or Linux development? How did that muddy the waters? If you ask me, it rocked the boat in a good way.
Linux has grown by leaps and bounds, from a grassroots OS to a viable option for both business and home use (more the former then the latter). This lawsuit serves no real purpose, IMO. Honestly, I'll just bet that it's an attempt by a faltering SCO to steal some of the thunder that IBM has built for Linux. They just want a piece of the pie.
Final Prediction: SCO's complaint will be thrown out, and Linux will continue moving forward, with or without them.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Comments and Documents from (Score:5, Insightful)
Diversity is good even within the Free Software world. We don't all use sendmail and that is good. We don't all use Gnome and that is good. We don't all use Mozilla, and that is good. There should be three, four, five choices for every major category of software.
A lot of people seem to think this is a bad thing. It is "confusing." I dont think so. You select by feature, fit, or whim (depending on necessity) and you limit failure by design, failure from malicious interference, and failure from excessive lawyering.
I'd like to see diversity in all infrastructure technology. (Like combining the present grid with neighborhood wind/solar energy).
Sure, I can be a loudmouthed bigot about my favorite technologies, but even though I don't happen to use FreeBSD, I am glad to know it is there (and I have an ISO of it at hand if need be).
I use more than one Linux distro at home (Debian, RedHat, and SuSE). I use OpenBSD for my firewall machine.
Diversity, redundacy. These are the basis of true reliability. Sure, Microsoft (for example) can try to secure the shit out of their next OS, but if everybody uses that one product, one mistake takes everyone out.
The *nix world hasn't (as a rule) been much more systematic about security than has Microsoft, but its diversity has been its saving grace.
The biggest failures of *nix security have occurred in those few places where one package has indeed been dominant. Sendmail is one. BIND is another (BTW, what alteratives to BIND exist for Linux and *BSD? I actually don't know and would like to know.)
Re:Spin (Score:5, Insightful)
A brief exposition on why the points are BS...
Re:Would it help to email to SCO & IBM... (Score:5, Insightful)
Better--
Call their sales line-- get product information, ask licensing questions, etc. Then send them a letter indicating that you cannot recommend their solutions on the basis that their licensing gives none of the benefits of open source and that the suit against IBM works against them
Re:uh... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Business Plan (Score:2, Insightful)
Premium to acquire (Score:5, Insightful)
If IBM made a takeover offer now, the market would probably assume that they fear losing the lawsuit, and that would increase SCO's value way above its current market capitalization, to somewhere much closer to a billion dollars(maybe more-they could probably go after several other big Linux-supporting IT firms).
Given that the evidence behind the claim appears to be very, very shaky, and the stakes are high, it would seem to be worth IBM's while to fight this one out in the courts for a while. If they win, they can *then* purchase SCO's IP for a song, far less than even the 25 million of the current market cap :)
Re:rejoinder (Score:2, Insightful)
Mr. Lessig would ask Linus... (Score:5, Insightful)
The interview with Linus is quite informative and indicates that SCO will have a hard time proving their accusations. He will likely present the same answers if or when he is asked about these things in court if called as an expert witness.
Good lawyers are experts on legalities and current legal trends, not tedious subject matter.
Poor Linus (Score:2, Insightful)
Tomorrow on Slashdot - "Linus Found Using Porta-Potty in Public Area".
Chris
Re:Atypical of a dying company's last gasp... Sue (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not a big fan of IBM either... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's easy to look at IBM as a "the good guy" and forget all the bad things they stand for too!
In Europe there is currently a big fight about software patents and who do you think is a big supporter of them?
Here is a quote:
IBM's patent department is actively lobbying Europe to legalise software patents. They have invested millions in fighting example cases to leading European lawcourts such as the EPO's Technical Boards of Appeal and the German Federal Court in order to soften and eventually remove European restrictions on patenting software. They have also threatened European politicians that IBM might close down local facilities if software patents are not legalised in Europe. IBM has also prevented the US government from conducting studies on the value of software patents for the national economy. In the wake of the Opensource hype, IBM's rhetoric has become relatively moderate, but nonetheless it is supported by real pressure. IBM has acquired approximately 1000 European software patents whose legal status is currently unclear. Given the great number of software patents in IBM's hands, IBM is one of the few software companies who may have a genuine interest in software patentability. Once software patents become assertable in Europe, an IBM tax of several hundered million EUR may be levied on European software companies.
Link [ffii.org]
Now, what is the biggest threat to Linux? SCO or software patents?
Besides that, I find SCO's suit very stupid - the only winner in this is going to be the laywers.
Re:Atypical of a dying company's last gasp... Sue (Score:5, Insightful)
In the meantime, if the suit does not look to be going well for SCO no one else will touch them as a purchaser.
SCO has banked everything not on being able to sell out, but on selling out to IBM *and only IBM.*
If IBM considers the value of its relationship with the Linux community as something to maintain SCO may have simply cut its own throat with this ploy.
I believe this is what ESR was refering to when he called it "deeply stupid."
It relies on the "good will" of the party you have just attacked, a party much stronger than you are (indeed, that's part of the point of the ploy) to play the game by the rules *you* wish to play by.
Yes, I think that's deeply stupid.
KFG
Re:The point is something else... (Score:5, Insightful)
The goals of corporation and goals of corporation managements don't always coinside. It does not seems as if SCO is any different from Enron in this sense.
It all started... (Score:5, Insightful)
It all started when an idiot went and spent a fortune the buy "the UNIX trademark" from bell labs. Then another idiot spent a huge amount of money to buy "the UNIX trademark" from the first idiot (who was now mutated to "smart guy").... You can imagine what happened. SCO is the final idiot who spent the biggest amount of money to buy "the UNIX trademark". They will always be idiots until they find someone else to sell "the UNIX trademark". But nobody wants it today. That pisses them off....
After POSIX, the "UNIX concepts" were made public, and implementing them is certainly cheeper than carring around some rusty code from 1970.
It was all wrong from the start.
Mainframes never existed, either? (Score:2, Insightful)
In fact, one could argue that it's unclear Unix could have reached its levels of scalability and security without appropriating fundamental ideas/approaches to such things from the then-available IBM mainframe operating systems!
Re:Mirror in case it's slashdotted (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Linus came forth"? (Score:2, Insightful)
There is absolutely no difference between the British and American usage of "its" vs. "it's". You must be thinking of "its" vs. "their". In British writing, for example, companies are usually pluralized, such as: "Red Hat are working on their next release of Linux." In American writing, you will see: "Red Hat is working on its next release of Linux." A similar example comes from the word "crowd", as in the British expression "The crowd are roaring." American English never pluralizes the word "crowd", taking it to be a singular group rather than a number of people.
You just get over it and you have a wider variety of reading material.
No! The problem of "its" versus "it's" is universal. It is a grammar mistake, not an idiom, no matter what country you live in. I challenge you to come up with a sentence where British English would use "it's" and American English would use "its". (Correctly, I mean, and without grammar mistakes.)
never mind if they happen to be from the exact same part of the world and have the exact same education so that their punctuation can match.
This is not an issue of regional differences in punctuation. "It's" and "its" are completely different words.
Re:Would it help to email to SCO & IBM... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And Lo..... (Score:2, Insightful)