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LinuxWorld Report, Day 2 147

greechneb writes "Roblimo is reporting again on LWCE's second day. Check out his reports on break dancers, hp, suse, gentoo, linux on laptops, and most important, free booze." See yesterday's story if you missed it. Some other LWCE notes: United Linux is sucking in more partners, and even Microsoft won one of the show awards. And yes, Robin is going around asking the interview questions. :)
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LinuxWorld Report, Day 2

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  • MS? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    what's MS doing at a linux event? *gasp*
    • by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:02PM (#5153342) Homepage
      As I wrote yesterday M$ new strategy? [], it's their new strategy. And today I read this:

      Why Microsoft was right about Linux []

      " Linux on Intel-based computers is now likely to become the dominant platform in corporate data centers, according to a recent report from investment bank Goldman Sachs. That puts even more pressure on Microsoft to persuade Unix users to stick with its Windows operating system on Intel systems rather than move to Linux. (That's no easy feat these days.) Indeed, if it fails to stop the groundswell, Microsoft may be forced to radically rethink its strategy as none of the company's server platform products now run on Linux. One scenario offered by analysts at First Boston has Microsoft switching gears and supporting Linux on key subsystems like Exchange and SQL Server and the .Net framework. And then there's the IBM factor to consider." Not much new there, but some details in the article ARE new and interesting.

      Computerized text bullying opening new chapter in student harassment [] Weird News

      • Of course, it's nice to be able to use unix programs on windows using MS's UNIX services, cygwin or the like, but I don't see that as an argument for using Windows as the underlying O/S on a server.
        Most people aren't choosing Unix only because of some app that runs on top of it, but because the base is actually much more robust than Windows. And in case of Linux/BSD much, much cheaper. (As well as easier to roll out onto several systems, patch, customise, etc)

    • Well, that would be clear if they only did not miss the second part of Rob's report. Here it goes:

      ...a week later...

      ...when I went to see my associate testers for Knoppix For Kids, I was very unpleasantly surprised - not only that they have not prepared the report for my Newsforge Knoppix review, they haven't even started testing process!

      "Why?" I asked.

      Earl (5), still excited because of the late Christmas gift from a funny, bold guy who kept jumping all over the place, didn't even want to answer. He just gave me a finger and went down the road on his shiny, new battery powered bike, shouting:

      "And he makes cooler software, too - he just won an award on some computer show in New York!"

  • by Blaine Hilton ( 626259 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @04:43PM (#5153211) Homepage
    That must be a large typo. Did MS really win at a "linux" conference? should be: "Most damaging company"
  • w00t (Score:5, Funny)

    by xao gypsie ( 641755 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @04:49PM (#5153254)
    free booze and break dancers?!?!? i guess that beats balmer dancing around like an idiot for 5 minutes. yet more proof that linux is cooler than M$.

    • First: I like *nix and everything GNU and I mostly dislike MS.

      But let me tell you something, if there is something proprietory software mongers do well, that is sucking up to developers and customers with free booze.
      I mean, it's not like '99 any more, but last year i had free drinks from both MS, SUN and a few of MS partners.
      Kind of slimy way to buy goodwill if you ask me, but hey! Free booze, it's not like you say no to that!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Stay tuned for days 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 AND 10!

    All here soon!
  • heh (Score:1, Funny)

    I believe it was "Best Monopoly"
  • bah -- i'm going to Porndex!
  • I'm there! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24, 2003 @04:51PM (#5153269)
    Lap dancers and free booze? I'm there! ...Huh? Break dancers? Oh, never mind.
    • Dont worry. Robin assures us the young pierced boy was the "hottest thing at the show".

      Now all the ladies will show up next year.

      "when hippie-hacker college students showed up at LinuxWorld like mad, and some of them ended up crashing in my room because they had no other place to sleep. "

      Heh heh, the old "You can crash here, you want another beer? Why dont you change out of those wet clothes"

      Wait, what do you mean, "Robin is a guy"?!
  • by Dr Caleb ( 121505 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @04:55PM (#5153294) Homepage Journal
    I thought this was a great quote:
    "Idealistic? Sure. No big mental change, just a job at a company with a dress code. And not just a job, but now a management job, one with purchasing authority.

    This is how Linux infiltrates the corporate world.

    [snip]and were disappointed that Linuxworld was so corporate and offered so little in the way of schwag for kids like them.

    Don't worry, guys. In just a few years you won't be complaining about all the business people at the local Linux show. You'll be those business people.

    If people want to influence the way business makes decisions, become the person making the descisions.

    That may be the key to getting Linux adopted in more places.

  • by zmalone ( 542264 ) < minus distro> on Friday January 24, 2003 @04:55PM (#5153295) Homepage

    The article on UnitedLinux's new partners has a number of interesting tidbits. First of all, I was completly unaware that SCO was such a major contendor in the group, has anyone thought about how this fits into their supposed lawsuits against Linux vendors? If they are really intending to sue, it could be a way to harm Redhat, and the other non-UnitedLinux distributions.

    As for the new partners mentioned in the article, none of them seem that major. All that UnitedLinux seems to get out of it is the ability to use a name, and all the companies (HP, Intel, IBM, and AMD) get out of it is prerelease code.

    • SCO is one of the founding members of United Linux. If you needed a good reason to avoid United Linux I think thats it.

      Of course you should take my comment with a grain of salt as I really can't stand SCO, thier business practices, or most of thier products.

    • SCO is a founding member, and the whole thing was really their (Ransom Love's) idea to start with. I hate SCO, but I love SuSE, who's the only one of the founding members who has any real market presence, and the UnitedLinux standard seems to be mostly based on SuSE.

      There's more to UnitedLinux then a name and prerelease code. Those are pretty meaningless by themselves, as you point out.

      What the software members get is a guarantee that software they develope will work on the other partners distros. They also (hopefully) get more support from third party vendors like Oracle, who can now target UnitedLinux rather than having to target each distro individually. That adds value to the ditros put out by the software members. It also speeds up developement, since all the developers at the various distros are working together.

      What the hardware members (HP, Intel, and AMD) get is the ability to influence the direction of the standard and make sure their stuff is supported. That adds value to the hardware they're selling, as they know there is software that will take advantage of it. It makes things easier on them, too, since they can work with UnitedLinux as a whole, not have to go to each distro seperately.

      IBM, of course, is in both groups. While they don't put out a distro of their own, they do provide third party apps, do a fair amount of Linux developement work, and they've supported all the UnitedLinux distros on their hardware since long before there was a UnitedLinux.

  • Conference Turnout (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've noticed that the turnouts having dipped a bit over the past year have now got back to a relatively healthy level.

    Let's face it though, it's all still a bun fight - how much real business is done through these shows that's not prearranged?
    • The purpose is not to sell. I asked the major vendors pricing on their blade systems (IBM,Dell,HP) The all commented that I need to contact my sales rep. They are there to show off products only.

      The smaller guys are selling items, but this is small.

  • Microsoft win (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    for services for UNIX.

    Sounds like they've started to take us seriously. Now the cry is, "If you use Linux servers you should use Windows desktops!" and, "If you use Linux desktops you should use Windows servers!" and, "You can easily migrate from Linux to Windows!"

    I wonder how successful they will be. I always saw Linux and Microsft as allies in the war against overpriced UNIX system vendors like Sun and SGI. Interesting to see what will happen now that they are fighting each other.
    • Re:Microsoft win (Score:5, Interesting)

      by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @06:43PM (#5153905) Homepage
      Sounds like they've started to take us seriously

      I've read a good explanation for what they are doing. Gates is no dummy. In fact, he's one of the brightest businessmen around. He has first hand experience how rapidly technology can change, and is very aware that almost of Microsoft is built on technology that didn't even exist 10 years before Microsoft started.

      He is quite aware that things will continue to change, and everything that is important to Microsoft now might be just a small technology niche in ten years, and he has no intention of letting Microsoft go the way of, say, Data General or Digital. That's why Microsoft is trying to get involved in pretty much everything they can involving computers--cell phones, game consoles, PDAs, entertainment centers, servers, embedded systems, online services, streaming media. The only way to be sure that they remain successful is to try to get in early in everything.

      In other words, Microsoft intends to be the next Microsoft.

      • Gates is no dummy, but he's not a bright businessman either... he's a really bright crook and an extremely unethical businessman. There is quite a difference there.

        Really bright crooks commit crimes of ethics that are totally legal by the letter of the law (although not always: read anti-trust)
        • Buisness is buisness. In fact nothing MS did WAS illegal until they were declared a monopoly. Then they were tried for past crimes based on new legal status. They did nothing different than any other buisness does. It was only their sheer mass that got them fingered.

          Look at sun, giving away an entire office suite and an OS for free. That would be considered "dumping" if they were a much more sucessful company, but because they are currently an underdog on the desktop, its "ok" for them to give away what is currently considered a money making product for free to undercut competitors. When MS did that with IE you cried foul. Where is your morality now?

          Frankly "Anti-trust" is a bogus concept. Moral is moral and immoral is immoral, size does not matter. Open source is in many ways as, and more, immoral than anything MS has done. MS never gave away an entire office suite and OS to undercut a competitor. Just because something or someone is small vs large doesn't change what is right or wrong. "The ends justify the means" is a bogus concept at MS's level and it's just as bogus at the Open Source level.

          If Open Source were truly ethical, then it would be open AND sold for what it was worth and the people slaving away long hours on it paid just compensation for their work. Gaining market share by dumping your product based on the good will of others is not ethical in any way. Red Hat itself is far more evil than MS in this regard.

          So how ethical and bright is Linus? (Who works for a closed archetecture company and runs close source software while gloating about it? (Re DVD playback)) How buisness savvy is he or RMS? How about ESR being "Suprised by wealth" then "Suprised by poverty" as he produced nothing of value with all that wasted money? Who are you comparing Bill Gates to anyway to call him a bad person? He's a candy bear compared to anyone running an entertainment or energy company or indeed most other large company tech leaders. Jobs has been positively maniacal twards mac fans, mac support companies, the press and competitors of all kinds. And yet he now has a new friend in slashdot.

          Slashdot's continuous, flaming, non-self-examining bias with the entire Open Source Vs Microsoft "war" is beyond old. We need to concentrate on the success, security and commercial success of this little OS that could and drop all the retoric. It's going nowhere.

          • Its wasnt so much the bundling that got Microsoft in trouble. The legality of bundling is debatable. but the retaliatory OEM contracts were another matter. Anticompetition clauses are highly illegal. Its a shame the DOJ didnt focus more on that side of the equation, where they had much better footing.
      • I've never met Mr. Gates personally but I don't doubt that he's a smart guy. That being said, the cynical part of me wonders if a large part of his success might be attributed to being in the right place at the right time.

        If General Motors called me up and asked me to supply the motor for a new, revolutionary car they were designing and I was able to buy a suitable motor from another company for a song, I bet I'd end up as one of the wealthiest people in the world too.

        Food for thought.

        • > able to buy a suitable motor from another company for a song,

          Do you really think the success of BG and Microsoft is based only on the original purchase of DOS? What makes BG a success is that he's been able to "ride the wave" of technology-business without falling off for 25 years!
  • where's the booze (Score:1, Insightful)

    by CakerX ( 149266 )
    someone mention free booze, I didn't see any!
  • by Hieronymus Howard ( 215725 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:00PM (#5153335)
    The hottest thing I've seen at this show so far is a guy with six piercings jumping up and down on a Dance Dance Revolution device hooked to a Linux computer

    How did Roblimo know that the guy had six piercings? Was he completely naked? Perhaps that should have said 'six visible piercings'.

  • Microsoft wins (Score:5, Insightful)

    by intermodal ( 534361 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:02PM (#5153340) Homepage Journal
    As much as I hate to say it, I'd say thats fair. what were the competition? I don't know. It probably consisted of dos2unix text file converter, Samba, and maybe something else or so. WINE sure doesn't cut that mustard. so I guess I've got to say, this shows that the judges had level heads and didn't discriminate.

    Regardles, Viva Linux!
    • Re:Microsoft wins (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bongoras ( 632709 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:47PM (#5153610) Homepage
      you don't think samba is better? Samba is a revolutionary. I'm not sure Samba was part of the competition... Be that what it may, Samba is one of the most important open-source tools in the world, if you are are serious about Linux suceeding in the enterprise. Sure, it's not sexy, glamorous, or fun. The protocols all suck. No one likes SMB. But because of Samba, I can say to my boss ( who is a Microsoft minion all the way ), " I can save you $500 here by using Linux to share out that printer," and "oh, don't worry about Professor so-and-so who wants to use Linux, it gets along perfectly with NT," countering each objection to Linux entering our enterprise with a working, efficient, and cost-effective OPEN SOURCE solution. Samba rules.
      • of course i think samba is better. all i was saying is that the judges were clearly not judging on a "linux is just better" basis. For all I know, MS might have been the only group that showed up with such an app to be in the contest.
    • Re:Microsoft wins (Score:2, Interesting)

      by justins ( 80659 )
      You've got to be fucking kidding.

      Services for Unix is a sorry joke, pretty much the only thing it's got going for it is an NFS implementation for win32. In every other way, Cygwin and Uwin are superior.

      It raises an interesting question though: how come nobody has done an open-source implementation of NFS for win32?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:15PM (#5153416)
    Microsoft - Services for Unix 3.0,
    Nice getting an award for that.
    Just like they had support for Novell, nice of Microsoft to include support for Novell, but wait!! after a while it was only used to upgrade Novell servers to NT servers?
  • services for unix (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    OK, a serious question about Services for Unix, that got a definite "maybe" on an Interix newsgroup:

    Now that Services for Unix includes the formerly separate "Interix" product (which as I understand it is a POSIX-compliant sub-system for win2k), is it possible to run X Windows and a window manager and *still* run native Win32 apps from the window manager (and have them behave reasonably)?

    I was trying to get a demo of Interix to try it, but I couldn't...
    • Re:services for unix (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No need to turn to MS for this. You want Cygwin [] for this. XFree under Cygwin now supports rootless mode, making it very feasible to use native apps and X11 apps at the same time.

      Works very well.
  • by truthsearch ( 249536 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:24PM (#5153474) Homepage Journal
    I'm confused. ult.asp []. How can a non-open source product win an open source excellence award? Some of the basic utilities are GPL. The product requires per-seat and/or per-server licensing and licenses for each person who connects. That's a proprietary license.
    • Because it's a LinuxWorld expo, not an Open Source expo.

      Many of the most compelling products for linux are proprietary.
    • On the referred page, one of the IDG VPs is quoted as saying: "These products represent the very best technology available to users of Linux and Open Source..." so it doesn't sound like the products themselves had to be open source.

      If Microsoft doesn't include any open source, then why do they include the
      gpl? []

      Aren't there such things as products with open source components, and closed source components, like Lindows?

      Heck, I don't know, but it just might be that you are assuming something that isn't true.
    • Neither are these winners:

      Best Developer Tools
      IBM - Websphere Studio Appl. Developer V.5

      Best Data Storage Solution
      IBM - Tivoli Storage Manager

      Best Security Solution
      Computer Associates - eTrust Antivirus

      Best Productivity Application
      HRsmart - Applicant Tracking

    • Well, to be correct, GPL doesn't stop you from selling licenses for the stuff... GPL doesn't mean the software needs to be free. GPL just ensures that you can't sell the stuff without the source code. I guess, Microsoft is providing the source code, the link has already been provided by one of the other Slashdotters.
      • Read the Microsoft web page more carefully. Services for Unix comes with some basic GPL'd apps like gcc and grep. The sidebar on the right of the page references the open source utilities. But the apps which MS actually wrote are not open source. They're reselling the GPL'd apps with their own, but those open source apps are not the "Services for Unix" package. So what I don't understand is how the closed source apps can get an open source award.
  • by guyo26 ( 151472 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @05:25PM (#5153477)
    Drove down from NH wednesday, went to the show yesterday with my brother [who lives in NY]. Not like going to trade shows back in the big boom days (read as not much free stuff), but still pretty fun.

    Odd things I noticed:
    although there were tons of Linux Journals, SysAdmin's and C/C++ mags, Dr. Dobbs was empty all day. Either everyone else reads it or they only sent a dozen to the show.

    Saw _several_ SGI ALtix's, even got a picture of me standing next to them. Even though they've gone to the dark side [x86] they were very friendly and had a nice booth.

    Ximian had the best booth by far, the whole jungle theme rocked. Unfortunately they were right next to Microsoft.

    Speaking of, the were tre chic in black long sleeve shirts and jeans. I admit that I dropped my business card in the fishbowl for a chance to win a free Xbox ... now that it's been hacked to run Linux I didn't feel too much pain in my soul. My brother refused to come within 5 feet of the booth.

    Sun was awesome. Got DVD's of Solaris 9 for both x86 and Sparc. They've sold out and gone x86 as well, but I still have a thing for old Sparc SBUS boxen.

    The LPI test was ok. suitably hard enough.

    I went prepared to be impressed by RedHat, but was sorely let down. Very corporate. Very stand-offish IMHO. Too bad, I would love to move to nice, warm, NC and get a job there.

    SUSE has a great booth, with an absolutely gorgeous girl there. Best of the show, unfortunately they were also close to SCO, who had a huge booth. Even _I_ refused to get within 5 feet of the SCO booth. At least M$ has a track record, these guys ... I dunno, anyway

    Not a SINGLE booth offering CD's, except for the aforementioned Sun and NetBSD.

    the Icculus guy was great. .org rocked and was way better overall. Got my GNU shirt. Even applied for the Linux credit card because of the hot chicks shilling.

    Wish the Debian booth had more stuff ... guess it took to long to install *grin*

    Last but not least, the Linux Journal folks were really nice and went out of their way to take care of us and make us feel good.

    There were definately some geeks out on Thursday, don't know about Wednesday, but I saw quite a few.

    All in all a good time, hope I'll go next year. I'm still pawing through my 2 bags of goodies.

    • hehe, yeah, the SuSe girl was HOT, but the one making the crepes was more down to earth, no ? yup, RH is all corporate now, I mean, come on, there stock is worth way more per share then Sun, they deserve to have an attitude, right ? all I know is it was friggin' cold, but a couple slices of "two boots" pizza ia always worth the trip! and someday I wanna go to one of these things and run into Eric Allman... But it was cool seeing Mad Dog there...
    • Sun sold out and went X86. Uhmmm where have you been. They almost did not make Solaris 9 for X86. It was only due to alot of work by the "not so secrect group of six" and other people that Sun made Solaris 9 for X86

      I love solaris on a sparc, but sometimes I want to run it on an X86. I am glad to have the option to do both.
      • Best part of the show is swinging by the sun both and get the latest media kit for free. This year I was able to snag sol9 12/02 sparc and x86 on DVD Who needs (wants?) any of that linux stuff anyway!
    • Please go [right now] to booth 9 and hammer the icculus people for details on mohaa. Then post those details here or email them to me at "".

      Thank You

  • The hottest thing I've seen at this show so far is a guy with six piercings jumping up and down

    What he doesn't tell you is that it was actually Cowboy Neal. The other 9 piercings were.. hidden..
  • asking for trouble (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm pretty impressed that someone could still innocently write "sucking in more partners" in a slashdot story submission. Truly gives me hope.
  • I have been patiently awaiting Ximain Gnome 2.0. I fully expected it to be release in accordance with Linux World. DAMN IT ALL TO HELL! Where are you, oh god of gnome!
  • by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Friday January 24, 2003 @06:02PM (#5153686) Homepage Journal
    Weren't XFree supposed to release V4.3 of XFree86 at this show?

  • So HP seems to care to have an easy suse install. Then, why are they still selling every laptop with microsoft tax??
  • Best News: icculus annonced Americas Army, Medal of Honor: Alied Assult, and Serious Sam: The Second Encounter

    • Icculus is my fucking hero. I love MOHAA! It's probably the only game that I've missed playing on Windows. I've tried to make up for it with RTCW, and it just doesn't work.
  • Earl and Shantia, whose only home computer experience has been with Mandrake, which they like better than the Windows computers at school, "because they stop working a lot and you have to wait for the teacher to make them start again," explains five-year old Earl. Score:5, Interesting
  • From ult.asp:
    The GPL utility source code for Services for UNIX 3.0 contains the base utilities diff, sdiff, bc, dc, cpio, gzip, gunzip, gawk, patch, csplit, nl, strings, rpm, and SDK utilities/libraries, gcc, gdb, g++, g77, gasp, objcopy, ld, as, ar, nm, size, strip, ci, co, diff3 rcs, rlog, and ident.
    Does that mean that MS does not want the bash on Windows desktops? I wonder how a unix system could be useful without using any unix shell (not even CSH or someting is included). How easy is it to port a serious app without having the shell available? Well, I guess for anything like that we'll have to keep using cygwin [], which has all these features. I wonder why cygwin didn't win the award. If you want to port something to windows, cygwin is far more useful (though it doesn't include an nfs server as far as I know). Did you see that rpm is included? Does that meant that there will be rpms from microsoft soon? ;-) On another note: Will MS now have to pay royalties to them [] for each CPU where windows runs on?? ;-)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I don't know about you guys, but I know I was eagerly awaiting some fat old guy's account of a tech expo. Rob writes like a 10th grader and is about as interesting. Yay OSDN. I was on the original Netscape programming team, and we all know how good that program was, so this post should go to the front page. Oh wait: "mplayer waahhhh and the windows snap into place and I can't do RPMs and something about deCSS waaaahhhh!".

    There, now it's ready for the front page.

  • HP Laotop w/Linux (Score:2, Interesting)

    by civad ( 569109 )
    >> Please, HP people, can we have Linux laptops? In case HP people dont know: HP Pavillion ze4200 is what I could call a "Linux-ready" laptop (I intionally put it in qoutes). One thing though: so far only Mandrake 9.0 works perfectly. Theonly thingI havent been able to check so far is the modem (though I doubt it will work)
  • damnit (Score:2, Funny)

    by antistuff ( 233076 )
    I was going to go, but the only day i could i overslept, now I hear this free booze stuff, grrrr.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    ...the buying out all of smaller developers, right?

    Resistance is futile.
  • I had more fun at LCA watching Hemos getting totally shitfaced ;)

    When he wakes up, expect a post from him about LCA :)
  • [] in Perth has just finished and was a great success. Attendees included Linus, Alan Cox, Rusty, Tridge, HPA, Rasmus, Bdale and some guy called Hemos.
    Who would choose wintery New York? A bunch of suits, I guess. Not one suit in sight at LCA. A big congrats to the organisers.

Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success. -- Christopher Lascl