Motorola's Metrowerks Acquires Lineo 93
An anonymous reader writes "It's official: Following weeks of speculation, Motorola's Metrowerks embedded tools subsidiary today has finally announced that they are acquiring the key assets of Embedix Inc. (a.k.a. Lineo), one of the earliest and most popular providers of embedded Linux software and tools."
Re:Linux... (Score:1, Funny)
Lineo merges with Metrowerks (Score:2, Funny)
Hey, if you get the chance to combine your corporate slogan and your company name, I say go for it!
No interested (Score:1, Funny)
If they're into useless purchases (Score:1, Funny)
In Soviet Russia... (Score:3, Funny)
Sounds suspicious ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sounds suspicious ... (Score:5, Informative)
When he says "Customers", he means "Embedded Systems Developers". And yes, we do want a full solution, up to the application level, from a single source. You want to buy a single dev kit, not a chip programmer from one company, a programming environment from a second, and an O/S from a third. This way you don't have to pull out your hair trying to integrate the environments before you even begin development. And no, it's not a monopolistic statement, as it doesn't preclude other companies having solutions for their own chips. Basically, MetroWerks wants to provide an entire development solution for Motorola chips, kinda like TI wants to provide the same for their chips.
Re:Sounds suspicious ... (Score:2)
I TRIED to use their 68HC12 dev kit for my last project(at my now former employer) and spent 40%(rough guess, but it was close) of my time fighting tool problems. And after the 90 day support was up they stopped talking to me, even with regards to bugs in their c++ compiler.
Had I gone with the GNU toolchain(boss was a HW guy who insisted on paying for tools), I would have been up to speed in 3 days, the c++ support would have been near complete, and I MIGHT just still be employed(can't blame it ALL on them). Sure its nice when companies think they can provide total solutions, but in most implementations I've seen they give you a false sense of security and end up costing you.
Re:Sounds suspicious ... (Score:2)
No. With MS/Disney/AOLTW, you must pay them money to continue using the software, even if it turns out that none of their promises of support or ease-of-use work out. With Linux-based systems, including Lineo, if you don't want to deal with that vendor anymore for support, you go somewhere else (well, except for the GUI toolkit, which has restrictions for commercial use).
Here's another viewpoint / more information (Score:5, Informative)
Please note that this was deemed bad by some for embedded Linux because of the fact that Lineo had to be acquired and no longer was self-sufficient due to lack of profits from software sales.
Lineo's "Embeddix" software for portable devices powers those Zaurus [com.com] handhelds that some of you are familiar with.
The good news mentioned in that article was that Toshiba just invested a hefty chunk of change into MontaVista software, another player in the embedded market.
Re:Here's another viewpoint / more information (Score:5, Informative)
Bruce
Zaurus (Score:5, Informative)
Bruce
Re:Zaurus (Score:2)
The fact that most of the applications only run on the main display or via VNC might give you a hint; UNIX and Linux servers use X11, and for good reason.
Fortunately, some people are working on [handhelds.org] making Opie play nice under X11. Let's hope that Motorola's Lineo will see the light and make this the standard way of delivering Qtopia for Embedix as well.
Re:Zaurus (Score:2)
I haven't bothered to load the X packages yet, but OpenZaurus includes an X server. It would be nice if the switch from native Opie to X Opie could be achieved by changing a shared library, rather than by rebuilding applications.
Bruce
Re:Zaurus (Score:2)
The short of it is that I think Opie-based handhelds should switch to Qt/X11 entirely and just get rid of Qt/Embedded. If that turns out to require more memory or be slower, then the problem is with the X11-based Qt implementation, not the use of X11, and the way to fix that is to fix the Qt/X11 implementation.
Re:Zaurus (SD and MMC) (Score:2)
y reading of the iPaq mailing lists is that there cannot currently be an open source SDIO driver due to licensing issues. OTOH, there is open source MMC drivers running on the ipaq.
I understand there is ongoing lobbying of the SDIO association to open the specs, but I had not heard of any success.
Re:Zaurus (SD and MMC) (Score:2)
On the other hand, there shouldn't be any problem to reverse engineer the sharp, hp or any other closed sourced linux driver and write your own. Although, in the US you may have some trouble with the DMCA.
Re:Zaurus (SD and MMC) (Score:2)
Bruce
Re:Zaurus (SD and MMC) (Score:2)
So the best case scenario would be that we can take the open source MMC driver and add the SD initialisation taken from one of the closed source ones. This should at least give us the ability to use SD memory cards.
This is under the assumption that there is an open source version of the ipaq MMC drivers, which I am pretty sure there is, but which I haven't used (no MMC ipaq) or looked at.
The sharp SD driver module is not stripped in any way and all the names of the subroutines are pretty intuitive.
There was a long discussion about the whole subject a couple of months ago on the ipaq mailing list. You could try looking for it in the archives at handhelds.org
Re:Zaurus (SD and MMC) (Score:2)
If you use software in the USA that was reverse-engineered in Russia, are you guilty of anything, or just the Russians (who will be exhonerated by a smart jury)?
Re:Zaurus (Score:2)
Re:Zaurus (Score:2)
Re:Here's another viewpoint / more information (Score:3, Insightful)
With all due respect, your comment seems like a simple rehashing of the old GNU/Linux vs. Linux war.
Whenever Open Source / Free Software is involved in a project, we as a community know that underneath lie many great tools made by the GNU folks and many other programmers across the world. But since that's understood, we don't worry about it.
But you're right about the use of "powers"; I admit that many lay-folks would find it misleading were they to know the real truth.
Re:Here's another viewpoint / more information (Score:5, Insightful)
This is because hardware is the driving cost of PDAs. MS and Palm both license there Handheld OSs for between $8-$10, so the cost of the operating system has little effect on the cost of the unit.
Palm have not invested enough in the latest version of their OS, so it is only a matter of time before WinCE surpasses Palm in Market share, as it already surpasses them in OS features.
Because of this, I think it is going to be very hard for Linux to beat Palm and MS in the handheld market. We have to come up with a much better product, with more features, as beating the competion on price does not count for much...
Re:Here's another viewpoint / more information (Score:2)
Look it up from psion at www.psioninc.com
might be good (Score:3, Interesting)
Also it will allow for a great chip manufature motorola and os to come together.
redundant [cyberstreet.net]
Re:might be good (Score:2)
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!
Codewarrior is an overpriced copy of the GNU toolchain with an ide...
Well sure it is... but isn't that the business model that
-a
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:2)
How much cheaper can you get than free? Jeez. I know
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:2)
No that's debian
Redhat is the one with the uhh, cool installer.
ducks...
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:2)
Codewarrior has it's own 68000-and-alike targeted compiler that has nothing to do with GNU stuff. IIRC, Metrowerks started out with Apples (back when Macs were 68k), and that 68k stuff is behind Codewarrior for Palm, and their embedded stuff.
I agree with you that Codewarrior sucks, and everyone's better off with it dead.
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:1, Interesting)
Codewarrior has NOTHING to do with GNU.
- It was made pretty much from scratch by Metrowerks until Motorola bought them. (IOW, it has always been "proprietary".)
- It has always had a EULA. (It's not GPL'ed.)
It was originally just another Pascal compiler for Macintosh. Yes, the crappy old 68k Macs with the hack-job System n(where n is a fixed-point, one-place-after-the-decimal number less than 8). It was made into a frontend/backend IDE/plugin loader compiler with support for languages other than Pascal, most notably C++.
It became the de facto standard for Mac programming because Apple hadn't updated their MPW tools in years and Metrowerks updated for the PPC. (Yeah, that kind of "de facto" - the ubiquitous, Microsoft kind. Name a C++ compiler in widespread use for Windows development... now name one other than Visual C++. See?)
Codewarrior was the only decent way to make console apps for the Macintosh until MacOS X came out. CW has a thing called "SIOUX" - Simple Input/Output User eXchange" - a.k.a. a text console window. It worked pretty well, but things like system() were defined as:
void system(void *blah)
{
return 0;
}
You can see where that plan goes tits up... I believe they've updated their libraries to use OSX now, and give an error in HackOS 9.
The only thing you got right about Codewarrior is that it is overpriced. WAY overpriced. It retails for $400, and there's no upgrade path. It's $400 for CW Pro 5. 6 months later, CW Pro 6 comes out... another $400 if you want it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
All that having been said, it has a nice IDE...
Re:Does that mean no more codewarrior? (Score:2)
Their "Codewarrior for Linux" was IMHO, halfbaked-- Codewarrior implemented in Motif- but packaged with gcc. Their debugger-- gone, replaced with DDD. The nice syntax highlighting-- gone as well. The optimizing compiler-- replaced with gcc (although the price was cut as well).
It didn't work well well with autotools, and so much of the ease of use associated with theIDE was offset by the difficulty of converting to Codewarriors project based format.
As for SIOUX, similar libraries were available for "Think C" and it's successor, Symantec C++
holy crap I cant believe it... (Score:4, Interesting)
Lineo was the only company to come close to what we were doing in terms of execution speed and compatibility. It just boggles the mind that they sold out.
Though the company I was working for is now out of business, thanks to a very stupid CEO..
Re:holy crap I cant believe it... (Score:3, Insightful)
How is running out of money "selling out", except in the strictist sense of the word? They did/do have some cool stuff (we use some of their hardware development kits here at work), but if they are not selling enough to stay afloat, then you do what you have to do to keep some semblence of the company going. What would you have them do, just go belly up?
Re:holy crap I cant believe it... (Score:2)
I think Lineo was one of the more interesting assets of the Canopy group. But perhaps not the most profitable?
Re:holy crap I cant believe it... (Score:2)
That's the way even many successful startups work: they grow, then they get bought out, and the initial investors make a decent amount of money. Few startups make it on their own in the long run.
Re:holy crap I cant believe it... (Score:2)
If you're going to sell out, you could do a lot worse than selling out to Metrowerks. They are a very cool company. I used their flagship product CodeWarrior, a C/C++/Pascal editor/compiler/debugger/class library (later incorporating Java) almost exclusively for development for a few years, and it's superb. Also they were selling Geekware [metrowerks.com] long before any of the Slashbots had even heard of ThinkGeek!
I wonder (Score:2, Insightful)
It's no secret that I was no fan of Metrowerks in the Bad Old Days before Motorola (and they were no fan of me). I still have some serious reservations about using their tools, CodeWarrior Pro 8 is one of the flakiest releases I've ever seen, more so than Codewarrior 3 which was about nine years ago. I remember some sketchy acquisitions back then that really turned into a garbage disposal for money, but who knows, this might work out for them if they work it right.
Greg
Linux Watch (Score:3, Informative)
Already been done:
Does that mean... (Score:1)
Half right (Score:2)
Not good news, for now anyway... (Score:5, Interesting)
Meanwhile, a glance at Metrowerks website shows the company leaning strongly toward PDA applications, the market for which has been slumping as of late, and, as Gartner Dataquest's analysis [216.239.51.100] tells it:
Note that the idea of Microsoft getting a leg up in "core infrastructure" integration means that the company also poses a threat to embedded applications for such "smart devices" as portable phones and videoconferencing technology.Though the overall outlook may seem bleak for these companies, a winner is someone who can look a challenge and see an opportunity. As a libertarian, I am anti-monolpoly, and thus I hope Metrowerks' leadership can show the kind of vision needed to put Lineo's intellectual capital to good use in counteracting the Microsoft menace.
Re:Not good news, for now anyway... (Score:1)
PDAs are entering a period in which they will be embraced by enterprises as core infrastructure, like PCs. This portends a gradual shift away from Palm and toward Microsoft. Although Palm devices remain more prevalent in enterprises, Microsoft has been adept at forcing in, through legal threats and lack of technical interoperability, the building blocks enterprises must put up with. Most companies Gartner talks with are moving with, or planning to move with, the direction that Microsoft is forcing them to go.
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
The alternative, OpenZaurus, is free but basically had to be done from scratch, from what I've heard, including some hardware reverse-engineering. I haven't gotten around to installing it on my Zaurus and I gather it still has some shortcomings. I hope Sharp will switch to OpenZaurus, release any new source code, and I don't care if Lineo goes down the tubes.
Proprietary Linuxes are just Windows with a penguin mascot. Let them rot.
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Lineo provide a valuable service to Sharp. Do you think sharp could have said "hey open-source community, I need a linux kernel and drivers for this new device I'm doing..., and have it ready in 6 months"?
Would you drop everything you're doing and do it for them?
OpenZaurus is nice but unless sharp puts a decent development team to help make sure it sticks around, how are they going to guarantee that it will?
Commercial accountability, delivery guarantees are needed, and that's where companies like Lineo, RedHat, Suse, etc. come in.
Why is it a crime for company to try to make a buck with open-source software, even if they obey all license agreements?
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
I can only think of one thing. (Score:2)
--pi
Just once... (Score:1)
Yes, i know this is off-topic, but companies like Lineo could have survived if they simply quit trying to lock in customers and instead worked on new and different markets.
Unfortunatly, more companies will go under before the phbs get the bright idea to invest a bit of money into helping create markets.
There's a reason... (Score:1)
Last Post! (Score:1)
telling the Airline Pilots Association (in jest) about 21st century aircraft:
"The crew will consist of one pilot and a dog. The pilot will
nurture and feed the dog. The dog will be there to bite the
pilot if he touches anything.
-- Fortune, Sept. 26, 1988
[the *magazine*, silly!]
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