Indian State Switches to Linux 591
pamri writes "In a pleasant and surprising move, the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh, has opted to switch to Linux from Microsoft for its Gyandooth (intranet in Dhar district connecting rural cybercafes catering to the everyday needs of the masses) programme. What is more surprising is that the state's Chief Minister Digvijay Singh personally conveyed this to Bill Gates. A choice quote: 'For us it is not a question of Microsoft versus Linux. It is just a matter of choosing between a free software and a monopoly. We feel that when we are putting public information out in the open, then it should not be through a proprietary software.'"
Plain economics (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Plain economics (Score:3, Insightful)
1) If India has anything in plenty it is people. Even though there are lot of techies from India, on a average one computer is share by atleast 3 guys in schools. And as far as I know I have never seen an Indian throw away stuff just becoz it is old.
2)Your notion of IT being cheap on Linux is very wrong. In fact if not properly implemented you will end up investing a lot on IT, just for the simple reason that you need linux admins who are good (considering that it is for govt). Even then administring linux is not as simple as windows.
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Insightful)
Labor is cheap in India, especially compared to software licenses. Not to mention the fact that the government gets to tax Indian wages, where money send to Redmond is gone from India's economy.
Besides, at least here in the States, Linux admins don't make more than Windows admins. The studies I have seen show that the pay is quite comparable.
Re:Plain economics (Score:4, Insightful)
Those wages might be expensive compared to others in the country, but compared to going overseas for anything they need, it's dirt cheap.
Besides, Linux is perfect for a university. It's a working system that you can look into and examine. You couldn't become either an automotive engineer or a mechanic without taking cars apart, nor can you become a decent CS grad, or admin, without disecting a few systems and seeing what makes them tick.
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Interesting)
Configuring Unix for security is harder than windows because windows offers you niceties such as the group policy editor and heavy use of ACLs. While various linux filesystems support ACLs, no one is using them yet. I'm sure it's coming, though, which will go a long way towards ease of administration.
On the other hand, it's pretty easy to write some simple scripts, institute logrotation, and so on which will make Linux (or any other Unix) fairly self-maintaining. In my experience the Unix system administrator's job tends towards hardware maintenance and upgrades, and software upgrades, but very little maintenance beyond keeping up with security. Various Linux distributions have offered a number of methods for solving this problem. I personally prefer gentoo's, and if you did a little work on the gentoo build system and an automounter config, you could do frequent centralized updates with it; Of course various other distributions actually have systems in place to do these things for you, as they are shipped. This is just an example of the simpler, smaller tools which come from the Unix mindset (reusability through pipes) making system automation much easier.
A basic Linux distribution is in no way more complicated than windows. In many ways it is simpler; No mucking with the registry and all the pain that it entails is a big step in the right direction. Linux had journaling filesystems before NT, too, and it has faster and more advanced filesystems now (though who can say what is in store for NTFS in the future?) In the end Linux's primary attractions are twofold; The first is that it is free(beer) and the other that it is free(speech). To most of the world, those things are significant in that order, as well.
Unix tends to just work. Windows tends to have little bells and whistles (like a *usually responsive gui which also happens to be easy to use and does a hell of alot) but you don't need those things to do work. There are various adequate file managers for Unix which let you get real work done without bloat. They don't do everything Windows does, but you don't need to. The glitz and glimmer of windows is nothing but candy. I like to eat candy (Mostly in the form of Tactical Ops and Mechwarrior IV) so I still run Windows XP on the desktop, and Linux as an appliance...
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Insightful)
This is nice if you are trying to protect your system from your own users.
However, if you are interested in protected it from remote attacks, linux is MUCH easier. Iptables (for firewalling) is built in for free, and scripts to configure it are freely available. Security updates are quickly available and easy to apply. Linux wins, it is a no brainer.
A competent admin can make either OS secure, from local or remote attack. My subjective estimate is that Unix/linux admins can handle far more boxes per person than Windows admins, though.
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Informative)
Linux didn't have journaling in the mainstream kernel until the ext3 patches were accepted. You could probably have gotten some journaling under Linux with manual patching and installation of beta software in the NT 4.0 timeframe, but I don't believe the mainstream distros offered journaled filesystems until after Windows 2000 shipped.
Further, NTFS is extremely robust and resilient. It's EXTREMELY unusual to lose data from an NTFS partition. Compare that to reiserfs, which has had many, many, many problems over the years. (I believe it is considered stable now.)
Admittedly, to some degree, NT *had to* have a great filesystem, because it was unstable. And Linux could get away with the horrid ext2 filesystem because the OS was so reliable that the filesystem was very rarely shut down incorrectly.
But, regardless, NTFS got journaling and ACL's really *right* long, long ago. Between the two features, it's a lot better than anything Linux offers (yet). Linux is improving rapidly, but filesystems and permissions are core NT strengths and should not be casually dismissed.
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Informative)
How do you figure? We've all encountered the fact that MSFT products just aren't documented or the documentation is inadequate or just plain wrong. We've all encountered mysterious Blue Screens of Death. We've all encountered Windows 95 and 98 machines that are dying of cruft buildup. We've all encountered "magic" GUI applications that don't have a command line counterpart. We've all encountered installs that require reboots (I had to reboot my Win2K box just to upgrade AIM recently). Just reasoning from first principles, I can say that administering an number of Linux machines will be easier than administering the same number of Windows machines - the admin won't have to physically show up at a linux machine unless something is really wrong with it.
Very honestly, I think that administering a number of Linux machines (number greater than 5) will end up easier and cheaper than the same number of Windows machines.
I'd love to see some "plain economics" rebutting this. As near as I can tell, real information that exists contradicts your position:
I'm calling "FUD" on your position.
Re:Plain economics (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't believe it. Most installers are stupid. When they say the need to reboot, just ignore them (kill the process through task manager if they don't give you a choice).
I got 60-140+ day uptimes back when I was running Win2k by doing this. Everything that claimed it needed a reboot worked fine without it -- except for MS security patches
Re:Plain economics (Score:5, Insightful)
We've all encountered Samba, Sendmail, and Kernel panics too. We've encountered varying ways of bringing up Runlevels, frontends that configure stuff, but you don't know WHERE it configures 'em.
Pot, I'd like you to meet kettle, BTW, you're both black.Tips... (Score:3, Informative)
"bringing up Runlevels,"
Start at
Most other configurations are in
Sendmail problems? Try postfix [postfix.org], you'll love it. Easier to configure, easier to understand, and better security track record. btw, configuration is in
Got a kernel panic and it's not because youre using the 2.5.x unstable kernels? -> Most probably hardware that is breaking down.
Re:I'm sick of this troll. (Score:4, Interesting)
And you've missed the point entirely. By your same arguement, I haven't seen the support issues you're describing.
Purchasing server grade hardware, server grade operating systems and server grade support, I haven't seen these BSOD's your talking about. Nor do I have any machines (or workflow issues) sitting idle because I can't access Microsoft's code.
I DO have a few machines that can't recompile a kernel to save their lives. Take the exact goddamn makefile and code tree, and it's compiling on my P4 desktop, but not the Celeron fileserver OR the PII 266 laptop.
It's all about perception, dude, don't tell me your shit don't stink.
yeah yeah yeah (Score:4, Funny)
someone has balls!!
india 1
gates 0
At least it wasn't Sun.. (Score:5, Funny)
We're the dot in.. ah.. nevermind.
All I've Got to Say to Bill Gates Is: (Score:2, Funny)
Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Horray! (Score:2, Interesting)
Do you think M$ will get the obvious message being sent out from this situation...probably, but then again, they'll just take over another small 3rd world country.
India ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just to make it more amusing though is the fact that Microsoft retained a large number of Indian coders during the XP 'debugging' cycle; nice to see they're not afraid to bite the hand that occasionaly feeds.
Re:India ... (Score:3, Insightful)
I have to disagree with you there. IMO, every switch to Linux and friends is significant.
Saying Greece is insignificant would be like saying New Hampshire (pretty small by most counts such as area and population) doesn't amount to much in U.S. Presidential elections.
Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
Either way, It's good news, except of course for Microsoft shareholders.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Indian government runs on bribes and extortion. Any of you
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is different from the US government exactly how?
Maybe it's like poker .. (Score:5, Funny)
Hitting too close to home (Score:3, Interesting)
Facts to keep in mind :
Corruption is a way of life, especially if you are in the government. While corruption is not unknown in the US, these are usually exceptions (most law buying takes place over the table rather than under it and is thus not "corrupt" behaviour). In India, the honest politicians would be the exception. Odds are that someone in Karnataka did take a bribe.
Madhya Pradesh is not one of the technologically advanced states. Karnataka (which has Bangalore) is - hence Bill Gates would naturally spend more money on Karnataka. Even if Madhya Pradesh chose to stick to WinXX, it is doubtful that it would constitute a good market for MS.
All, in all, it does look like a bid in the poker game.
Re:Hitting too close to home (Score:5, Insightful)
You are deluding yourself if you think that this is even remotely true. Corruption is the absolute rule in our government. Explain DMCA, Patriot act, Mickey Mouse Protection act, Homeland Security (alone and with all the riders) in any other way.
In India, the honest politicians would be the exception.
Here we apparently had one left who is now dead.
Wellstone was the one dissenter to the Patriot act.
Anyone who voted in favor of that showed their hatred and contempt of the constitution, freedom, and basically everything America says that we stand for.
If you disagree try and come up with an actual reason that I'm wrong.
It's sad that you can have proof piled upon proof that the US government is completely owned and corrupt yet you are afraid to face the truth.
I'm not singling you out. Most people in America are afraid of facing reality. That is out primary problem.
I must be missing something (Score:3, Funny)
I thought I was going to see a quote around the lines of, "Madhya walked up to Bill, spat in his face and said, 'Take that Billy Boy. You monopolistic capitlistic pig. I'm going to use something free as in getting really drunk'"
Alas I'm missing something here.
Yes you are (Score:5, Informative)
Chief minister Digvijay Singh personally conveyed this to Microsoft boss Bill Gates during an interaction last week in New Delhi.
question (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:question (Score:3, Funny)
at what point, does other OS's have sufficient market share, and then Microsoft wont be concidered a monopoly?
Normal Answer: When Microsoft is no longer the dominant player in both the OS and applications markets and they stop using their muscle to put small companies out of business.
Slashdot Answer: When Bill Gates is drawn and quartered in a town square in Finland and Redmond is a deep, smouldering crater.
Re:question (Score:3, Funny)
Choice with a monopoly? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:2, Interesting)
But since Linux in this instance is being approached as "free software" doesn't that exclude it from the definitions that govern what makes a monopoly? Unless you are talking about a non-market monopoly. The idea here is that there is one seller and multiple buyers. Linux isn't being sold here.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:2)
MS is leading the computer industry around by the nose. While it's not a true monopoly since they can't completely dictate terms, pulling away from that ring would sure hurt.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:5, Insightful)
So if he restates the problem as free vs. proprietary, rather than free vs. monopoly, he's got a good point.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not entirely true. I could outfit my house with Solar Panels, live totally off that, and Wisconsin Electric would still have a monopoly.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:5, Insightful)
To take the canonical example. Big Oil, Inc. has a 90% market share. They have gas stations in every town and control the vast majority of the market. Big Oil, Inc. changes the pricing structure of it's fuel to
By your definition Big Oil, Inc. despite normally gouging the customers and making, say, 40% or better margins on it's fuel because of it's market position, is not a monopoly. Right?
Ok, so use a different word. Oilopoly, Winopoly, whatever. The point being controlling share of the market, is that ok in your book? Crushing competition on a whim, competition free pricing, poor product quality. That's all fine and dandy?
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think its a sign that Linux and free software in general is winning the OS battle when MS has to resort to arguments like this to maintain their customer base.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:2, Insightful)
Monopolies (like Bell of old) HAVE 100% of the market.
Monopolistics (like Microsoft) WANT 100% of the market.
Big difference, and it isn't that hard to see.
Re:Choice with a monopoly? (Score:5, Informative)
The definition of a Monopoly is not that the company has 100% of the market. It is that the company in question has a controlling share of a market that has a high startup cost associated with it.
What Microsoft was accused of was not illegally maintaining their monopoly, it was that they were illegally using their lawful monopoly power to extend their monopoly into new markets, (web browsers, etc.).
At the moment Microsoft is using monopoly power to attempt to force Linux out of several markets. By giving away copies in communities where free (as in beer) Linux is starting to gain interest they are attempting to undercut one of Linux's strong suits. Fortunately in the case of India, the Free (as in thinking) nature of Linux is another of it's strong suits that Microsoft has yet to find a way to undercut effectively.
Then again I could be wrong, but I think the facts speak for my opinions.
-Rusty
Yeah ok... (Score:4, Funny)
Mirror (Score:2, Informative)
ANIL SHARMA
TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2002 01:42:20 AM ]
BHOPAL: Madhya Pradesh has shut the door on Bill Gates. The state government schemes will use Linux software. Chief minister Digvijay Singh personally conveyed this to Microsoft boss Bill Gates during an interaction last week in New Delhi.
"For us it is not a question of Microsoft versus Linux. It is just a matter of choosing between a free software and a monopoly. We feel that when we are putting public information out in the open, then it should not be through a proprietary software," Mr Singh told ET.
Nor is it merely a public vs private ideological battle. Germany and Latin American countries, particularly Peru and Brazil, have opted for Linux rather than proprietary software to bring down costs, which keep mounting with successive upgrades in the case of proprietary software.
Madhya Pradesh has two significant programmes that reach out to people in a big way: Gyandoot e-governance, which covers 26 out of 45 districts and won the Stockholm Challenge Award for 2000, and the Headstart programme for computer-enabled school education. For the Headstart programme, the state government is now committed to use Linux.
Microsoft chairman Bill Gates has shown an interest in Gyandoot.
According R Gopalakrishnan, state coordinator for the Rajiv Gandhi missions, the first phase of the Headstart did use Microsoft software, but the next will use Linux.
"This should set at rest any fears that we are anti-Microsoft as such. But we have opted for Linux in this phase, because of the cost factor, and the fact that it avoids costly upgrades and improved versions that are an inseparable element of Microsoft packages," he said.
"It is a considered decision taken by us. We have noted that several governments in the west and other countries too have opted for the Linux software instead of Microsoft because of a host of considerations," Mr Singh said.
Wait a Minute! (Score:5, Funny)
Dammit, who let a man of principle become highly placed in government?
This would never have happened back here in the good ole U.S. of A!
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:3, Insightful)
The only reason you think he has principles is that he agrees with your beliefs. Looks like the school boy moderators agree with you.
Principled indeed. He's a politician, do you have any idea what that job involves? It has very little to do with working for the benefit of the electorate.
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:4, Insightful)
The only reason you think he has principles is that he agrees with your beliefs.
You're right - my knee-jerk reaction.
Forgive me, I'm just so conditioned to think that any politician that doesn't automatically climb into bed with money is somehow better and different from most.
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:5, Interesting)
You are a bloody moron - or a liar - I can't figure out which.
Untouchability is not practiced in India anymore - and hasn't been so for the last 30 years at least. I went to schools with friends who belonged to all castes and the persons caste never came up for discussion except in the context of India's ridiculous affirmative action laws.
Cows are NOT worshipped in India. Cows are respected like a mother because they provide milk, plow the fields and provide fuel and fertilizer - thus taking care of their "children". Trust a typical westerner to confuse respect with worship - especially since the concept of repecting ones elders doesn't exist in the US.
Westerners trying to apply their narrow world views to different cultures will always fail to understand them.
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:3, Informative)
And of course CNN [cnn.com] is well known for making things up. And I'm sure this [indiatoday.com]
guy is just making stuff up also. And last but not least this [google.com]
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:5, Insightful)
First, outside of strict mathematical definitions, the statement "Untouchability is not practiced in India anymore" does not necessarily imply that there are absolutely no cases of untouchability practised. It would be tantamount to pointing to news stories within the US involving hate crimes and claiming that the assertion that the US does not support hate crimes is false. Even several counter examples are not sufficient to render the original claim false. When you have a billion people, it is inevitable that some will do stupid things, however that DOES NOT reflect the attitude of the population as a whole. What does reflect the attitudes of the population are the laws upheld by the society, laws which clearly state that any discrimination based on caste are illegal.
Now for your second paragraph. Yes CNN is in fact known for making things up and exagerrating facts, but that is beside the issue.
Lets look at the story you point to:
It is the author that claims that hindus worship cows even though the article has the following quote "Cow in this country is like a mother" which I believe was the original poster's claim.
As for your google links I find it interesting that several of those particular links are sites which try not to present facts but try to convince you of the moral superiority of another religions belief. Come on now, do you honestly expect the site muslimonline.com to present a fair and unopinionated view of any aspect of hinduism?
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:4, Interesting)
None of this is going to prove that racial segregation is practiced in the US.
And yes, CNN does make stuff up - all the time. And the guy you are refering to was posting a humorous article.
Re:Wait a Minute! (Score:5, Interesting)
As opposed to living in a country, where because of an accident of birth, you can become President even if you are a dunce!
Is that ... (Score:2)
Will this destroy MS? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe he'll be working for sun in the mail room..?
I can dream can't I?
Meet the new boss (Score:3, Insightful)
But what about the growing perspective that Linux is free, and thus, is somehow "cheap"? If this and other third-world countries like South Africa continue to embrace Linux, will it lose points in the corporate boardroom?
Already we have the KDE project, which continues to make a "Windows clone" desktop. New users may be confused by this desktop, and come to think of Linux as a cheap, third-rate alternative to Windows.
Although Linux can't respectfully decline the Indian government's offer, perhaps some its senior officials (Torvalds, Cox etc) should distance themselves from this decision. Otherwise, it we may be hearing "cheap Linux crap!" as often as our racist forefathers used to say "cheap Japanese crap!"
Re:Meet the new boss (Score:2)
Well now that all depends. If foreign based companies and governments start kicking ass with it, I'd think that would give US corporations pause.
Imagine if some debt-ridden 3rd world country is able to pay off its national debt because they don't have to re-buy software every 18 months. I think that'd turn some heads.
Besides, India's not really a 3rd world country anyway. They have nuclear capability. Sure, there standard of living there is different and many over there are unimaginably poor, but they are highly advanced in sciences and technology -- particularly mathematics and computer science.
Re:Meet the new boss (Score:2)
Take, for example, grouped tasks on the taskbar; I don't know at what point it became part of KDE or Windows exactly, but I distinctly remember using it in KDE for some time before seeing it in the latest Windows beta.
Another example would be built-in theme support that actually significantly changes the way the desktop looks. I'm talking widgets, borders, icons, etc. I agree that this feature is mere fluff and even unwanted in certain environments, but the ability for KDE to look and act like several environments is a strong feature in my view. As an example, for about the past month I tried out the "Mac OS" style menu - all my KDE menus showed up at the top of the screen. This is supposedly better for ergonomics because one can fling his/her mouse towards the top of the screen and hit the menu more quickly than hunting it out. In addition, some people like the focus to move with the mouse, and most X wms support this easily.
In the end, every UI uses common good ideas from the others. Mac OS X, Windows, KDE, GNOME, etc. all share a fair amount in common - to call any of them simply a "clone" of the other is oversimplified. To me, KDE makes a desktop experience that's relatively easy to learn, yet packs an incredible system for customization.
The biggest risk of Linux being branded as "cheap" is offering it as a "Windows replacement" on the cheapest of computers (like Walmart is doing). Putting it on cheap computers is fine, but I'd like to see some Linux ready mid level and high end machines be more advertised to the masses.
Re:Meet the new boss (Score:2)
Linux is cheap, don't think so.
IBM dumping a billion US dollars per year into Linux isn't cheap.
Linux can be obtained cheaply, very cheaply, but since the break-even point of what is *worthwhile* doing is very different, the TCO of Linux may well be greater than that of Microsoft Windows. What *will* be done with Linux is not the same as what will be done with Microsoft Windows.
( IBM may well be right in that they "more than got their money back"
Whatever they are up to its good. (Score:2)
Free beer or speech? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know they have better things to spend money on than client licenses for MS stuff. I do think its a great push for linux worldwide BUT I would just happen to think the free as in speech part is just a plus for not having to pay (as much w/ TCO).
Either way, I wish our own government would use linux. As it would be a great push away from the monopoly [microsoft.com] that they "punished".
In related news... The U.S. government flunked a computer-security review for the third consecutive year [com.com]
Cost and Idealogy (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm just glad to see it when a customer wants something that Microsoft cannot and/or will not provide that they are willing to give Linux a chance. In this particular case, it looks like the decision wasn't made based on cost, but the cost of Linux is what made the decision possible.
It guess people will generally choose freedom especiall when it is free (as in beer!).
Re:Cost and Idealogy (Score:2, Insightful)
To which I'd love to hear someone respond:
"Yeah but that's money that goes back into OUR economy, not Bill's pockets"
Re:Cost and Idealogy (Score:5, Informative)
Damn skippy it would be. Remember, companies don't use OS's, they use applications. This is why SGI used to be so successful even though their stuff was ungodly expensive compared to other solutions, they provided tools to let people get done what they needed to get done in the best way possible. Hell, if you could get your hands on a piece of software that made you 25% more efficient at doing your job (of course this is in absolutely no way implying that office does this, this is just a generalzation), wouldn't you sink an extra $500 to acquire it? In a heartbeat you would.
The main point being that in the end, the OS don't mean squat, its the apps that run on it. "Minor" cost variances in the OS doesn't save you much in the long term if you can't get the apps that will help you do your job better. This is why M$ dominates on the desktop, but is losing more ground in the server room, Windoze is a desktop oriented OS, Linux is (was) not. Linux makes inroads in the server space because the applications available more readily lend themselves to that.
Re:Cost and Idealogy (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to people who have no need for the alleged additional functionality that Office provides. I have yet to encounter a task that I could do with Office that can't do just as well, and often more easily, with OpenOffice and Mozilla.
If that is true for me, a person who is very familiar with MS products, then I think it is certainly true for someone from the backwaters of India who has little, if any, experience with computers at all.
Ha! (Score:3, Informative)
GNU/Linux (Score:4, Funny)
Re:GNU/Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:GNU/Linux (Score:3, Informative)
------- from gnu.org:
Richard Stallman
Biography
Richard Stallman is the founder of the GNU Project, launched in 1984 to develop the free operating system, GNU.
Richard Stallman is the principal author of the GNU C Compiler, the GNU symbolic debugger (GDB), GNU Emacs, and various other GNU programs. Stallman currently serves as president of the Free Software Foundation.
Linux and GNU/Linux
The GNU Hurd is not ready for production use. Fortunately, another kernel is available. In 1991, Linus Torvalds developed a Unix-compatible kernel and called it Linux. Around 1992, combining Linux with the not-quite-complete GNU system resulted in a complete free operating system. (Combining them was a substantial job in itself, of course.) It is due to Linux that we can actually run a version of the GNU system today.
We call this system version GNU/Linux, to express its composition as a combination of the GNU system with Linux as the kernel.
--------
A Question of Monopoly (Score:3, Interesting)
I find this quote quite fascinating. India is a nation-state where the top 5% of the population own all the wealth; essentially they have a monopoly on the other lower castes. All the public infrastructure is publicly owned (trains, electricity). Given all this I find it hard to believe that India has been affronted in some way by avoiding a monopoly. What I do believe is that Inida is a country where most are poor and the barriers to technology are extremely high. With Linux, or any free computer technology, that gate is lowered somewhat; though you still have to buy the hardware.
What Linux really needs, I believe, to be the real market winner is to take on Microsoft on equal terms and win-out. Not some back-door, third-world country win, but a real win in the Fortune 500 cubicles of corporate America. But it's a start, and as Gandhi said, "A journey of a thousand miles, starts with just one step."
"How do you like your shackles?"
"Oh, they are quite a nice fit!"
"Excellent, we made them with Linux."
Re:A Question of Monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
I find this quote quite fascinating. India is a nation-state where the top 5% of the population own all the wealth
Unlike the US, where the top 5% of the population own something like 80% of the stocks, bonds and real estate.
essentially they have a monopoly on the other lower castes.
I'd be very careful about using the word "caste" if I were you; there's a lot of misinformation about what "caste" means.
All the public infrastructure is publicly owned (trains, electricity).
Unlike, say, Europe?
Re:A Question of Monopoly (Score:3, Interesting)
And then what will happen, you will stop using IE?
Think about who has more users the government of India or a fortune 500 company?
A not to everyone that thinks Linux is a failure as an OS because Fortune 500 companies in America aren't spending millions of dollars to switch, WHO CARES?
Indian tech sophistication (Score:5, Interesting)
So
bad news for Linux? (Score:3, Troll)
One thing I've thought about a lot is the image that Linux has, in both the media and business worlds. It goes without saying that gaining a foothold in American industry is vital to the long-term success of Linux. But many corporations have been reluctant to switch to Linux due to its image as an OS used by outcasts, hippies, pirates, and hackers. We seem to be making some progress away from this, what with products like Lindows getting some press, but we have a long way to go.
Now this comes along, and it's like we're being attacked from a whole new side. If Linux takes off in India, then we risk being associated with overpopulation, disease, tainted water supplies, and nucular warfare. What American company will consider using Linux after that? I wish there was a way to have it both ways, but I feel like the best thing for the Linux community to do at this point is to try to get India to switch to FreeBSD.
This is bull .... (Score:5, Interesting)
The main reason is
1. Piracy is rampant here. Ms Win costs Rs.0($0)
2. Both being free, Windows is easier to use.
3. Tools(MS VStudio) is also free.
All the stories u see in slashdot are exxagerated.
95% of developers in India target MS Win.
thats it. simple.
Re:This is bull .... (Score:3, Interesting)
Then it got faster than Windows...
Then it turned into a more secure server than Windows...
Then it got thousands of developers working on desktop software for it...
Then Gartner Group said "move from MS to it"...
Then all the big iron vendors started supporting it...
Then client companies started moving their servers over to it...
Then state and national governments started switching to it by the handful...
It's grown faster in popularity than any other OS...
What does it take?
What about us? (Score:4, Insightful)
From Linux to Windoze? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:From Linux to Windoze? (Score:4, Insightful)
I simply find it hard to imagine thar organizations would convert from Win to Lin. In this Win-centric world, those who choose open source (either conversion or start up) are likely to have weighed the options quite carefully.
Correction (Score:3, Informative)
netcraft says... (Score:5, Interesting)
_Indian State_ not _India_ (Score:3, Informative)
I'm just amazed at how much people are getting this wrong. It is not the WHOLE of India that decided to switch to GNU/Linux, but only the state of Madhya Pradesh [mp.nic.in]. Guys, what would you have said if the headline was the American state of Arkansas, has opted to switch to Linux from Microsoft
In case you didn't know, Bhopal has been the site of the world's worst chemical disaster in 1984. A leak from the Union Carbide (an american company) nearby plant has killed and injured thousands of citizens, and the company has denied responsibility for a long time. See here for more info [bhopal.net]. Somehow, I'm not surprised that they want to avoid the presence of big american companies
Just my two maple-leaved cents
The economics of free vs proprietary software.. (Score:3, Informative)
I came across this excellent article [business-standard.com] in an Indian business newspaper discussing the economics behind the use of free software vs proprietary software in developing countries like India. It also touches upon the adoption of Linux in Madhya Pradesh. In a nutshell, the article presents a strong argument in favour of free software mainly from the economic standpoint.
netherlands (Score:4, Informative)
With the upcoming election in January, I hope this will be one of the election themes.
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:5, Insightful)
He did NOT reject capitalism, it was the freedom he didnt want to give up. Thats a very big difference.
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:5, Informative)
For simple things like getting info on web, web based email, and simple chatting, no difference between linux and windows.
S
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:2)
Sorry? I assume that you are using your own special definitions of capitalism and socialism here, because I don't see how they've got anything to do with this Indian state deciding to use Linux for a particular project rather than Microsoft.
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:2)
* I'm obviously not refering to the dev's that get paid at IBM to work on Linux. That's business. I'm talking about the vast majority of OSS developers who do not code OSS professionally.
Cybercafe and game (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft doesnt raid Indian software blackmarket as they do in Taiwan and Malaysia because they need the next generation of Indian techies to practice and understand its products. And this means a wide availability of all the Windows flavors in most of the towns.
Plus a computer you can get for Rs.30000 and upwards and if you are asking for Rs.10000 (around US$200) for an OS no one is going to buy that.
This is the reason cybercafes are running XP/2000, not because of games.
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:2, Informative)
Wine in fact does run Starcraft. UT (and UT2003) are released natively for Linux. CS I don't know about.
New games (which aren't likely to run on Wine) require the frequently upgraded hardware, which is too expensive for India anyway.
Not that any of this matters; caffes will stop piracy when they get closed down because of it and no sooner. They also won't change the OS because it's simply a hassle.
--
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:5, Insightful)
Though some of the official stuff, as well as the more family-oriented shops may change to Linux, the vast majority of cyber cafes will still be running pirated games under a pirated Windows.
I doubt it- this is a government sponsored program - they plainly can't allow pirated software for a host of reasons. If it were for-profit shops, I'd agree with you whole heartedly. The effort here is for education of the poor, not profits.
India will continue to pirate as long as Microsoft leads everywhere else, though having the governor officially reject capitalism is a good step for socialism.
Hunh? This quote:
"For us it is not a question of Microsoft versus Linux. It is just a matter of choosing between a free software and a monopoly. We feel that when we are putting public information out in the open, then it should not be through a proprietary software."
says they reject capitaism for socialism? That sounds very much like an informed, reasoned choice to me. It also will get the poor of India used to the idea of properly licensed software - and may end up curtailing some of the piracy you speak of.
You sound as though you've pre-judged India as a country with no morals, self respect or smarts, since they have no money. I can assure you that this is definately not the case, especially in the smarts department. Educate yourself on what you speak of, please, especially before you attepmt to make such blanket statements.
As it is, IMHO you definately put the ass in assume.
Soko
Re:Cyber-cafes will never change from pirated WinX (Score:3, Informative)
However this really is a moot point. The goal of the rural cyberecafes is to provide access to email and web browsing, not to train a generation of "uber1337" kiddies that can't do anything but cheat in CS.
And eveidently you don't understand what capitalist system is. If it was a socailist system there would be no choice, its one-service-for-all, kind of like how Microsoft wants it, that for every PC you have you have to pay the "Microsoft Tax". Linux is the one trying to break this up so there actually is competition in the x86 PC market.
~noodle
UT on Linux. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Awright! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Awright! (Score:5, Interesting)
For those who don't understand Hindu (Very, very common religion in India), one of the basic premises of the religion is that people are reincarnated over and over again after they die until they generate enough Karma in the form of good deeds, positive experiences, and general learning and understanding that they reach a state of enlightenment and can proceed on from the cycle of mortal reincarnation to Nirvana-- a state of ultimate contentment with no worries, cares, needs, or demands.
Thats why cows are sacred to Hindus... not because of some strange religious edict or a prejudice against beef, but because cattle seen as a higher, more enlightened life form than humans. While I make no pretense about my love of beef in the grilled-to-a-juicy-medium-rare sense, you have to admit that cows do more for the environment we do on an invidual basis (entire herds and livestock yards can be pretty polluting and are responsible for a lot of C02 emission, tho) and with remarkably fewer cares than a human.
Karma has been westernized to mean the total of good deeds a person has and it's used here on Slashdot to indicate a measure of thoughtful posting, but don't forget that 'real' karma is the unmeasurable enlightenment you have acheived.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Troll URL (Score:2)
Re:I thought Indiana State used (Score:2)
Hence, IUPUI.
Re:Let the racist comments begin... (Score:3, Insightful)
I just read the Ask Slashdot you referred to [slashdot.org] at -1 (I missed it the first time around...) and don't find any "racist" comments whatsoever.
All I see is a few posts from people griping about H1B Visa workers. While you may have assumed (incorrectly) that all H1B Visa holders come from India (I'm presuming that's why you posted the comment in this story), plenty come from countries such as England, Russia and the Asia-Pac Rim. No one specifically mentioned any race, creed, or religion in any demeaning term.
People are obviously upset about the proliferation of H1B workers in America. It wouldn't have made it to Congress and the mainstream media if there wasn't widespread sentiment about it.
There's a difference between racism and criticism, and I think you need to be a little less defensive unless you feel guilty of something yourself.
Re:who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, a representative of the govenment of the single largest country on Earth is of no importance or interest. That he is acting in opposition to half a billion dollars of bribes distributed by Gates in person doesn't make it news and the possibility that this will undermine the Microsoft hegemony in every developing country in the world and may even impact the EU's attitude to free software is never going to matter to the readers of /. Or perhaps you need to look outside your own window once in a while.
TWW