Is Linux Dead? 968
TunkeyMicket writes "It appears MSNBC is reporting that Linux has failed as an operating system. By citing the large Linux hype as reason for Linux to be dominating the market, they draw the conclusion that the "open source" alternative has flopped as an operating system. They briefly mention the success of Linux in the server community, but really the article gives Linux as little credit as possible."
Obvious flame from MSNBC. (Score:4, Funny)
Please don't even bother to respond to MSNBC. They are probably trolling for hits... =)
Re:Obvious flame from MSNBC. (Score:5, Insightful)
I found this post pretty funny but I found most of the other, more serious MS+NBC=Conspiracy posts to be pretty sad (about 75% of the posts to this article).
As recently noted in a couple of Slashdot discussions, MSNBC is probably one of the most referenced sources on Slashdot and often carries the most Microsoft critical articles of any "mainstream" source. Granted, these are often reprints from NY Times or AP, but MSNBC articles generally seem to be surprisingly unbiased (including this one, as those of you who have actually read it have noted).
Of course, they have their share of no-questions-asked regurgitated press release stories too (like the last third of this article), but no more (and maybe less) than everybody else.
I wonder if this Slashdot story was just a (flame)bait and switch to see how many people would actually read the article (no, Linux isn't dead), and test how many people would just write a knee-jerk MSNBC flame.
Re:Obvious flame from MSNBC. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nowhere in the article does it claim "Linux is Dead"
the article claims "Despite the hype of a couple of years ago, Linux has failed to make inroads into the desktop market. But hey, they don't have many virii, and web servers are running the plucky little OS, and here's an interview with an OS developer who will list the merrits of the product. Too bad Redhat isn't making as much money as it used to."
If anything the article is pro-Linux. It gives it some recognition, it paints a fair picture, and definitely says that Linux has a future.
I think maybe 3 other posters have actually read the thing. All in all, I've found MSNBC to be the best mainstream source of news, it doesn't have the conservative/nielson ratings bias of FOX (and now to comment on this subject, three loudmouths who don't know a goddamned thing!) nor the naked liberalism of CNN and the NY Times. It's as close as you can get to centrist reporting without being as dull as a textbook.
Re:BUT...the implication is that ... (Score:3, Insightful)
But today, Windows is still running on the vast majority of PCs. So what happened?
What happened is this: Windows has become so entrenched that any alternative will face a massively uphill battle. In other words, the article seems to be stating the issue in a manner that faults Linux, but it's really an issue of economics. A long as it costs marginally less to endure M$' upgrade B$, arcane licensing, market dominance, arrogance, and buggy software, people will continue to do so. This has nothing to do with Linux per se, but more with consumer behavior. THAT's the problem.
I also think the author is comparing Apples to Oranges. When a traditional company fails, operations stop, people lose their jobs, customers lose support, and eventually, the software becomes unusable due to incompatibility. This is the classic example of something that has failed. Linux, fortunately, doesn't fit this model. It can't fail, because the software is open. No 'customer' of Linux is stranded with documents in a proprietary format that can't be ported to another application. Further, as long as there are people who enjoy coding, Linux will live on.
This is not to say that the Linux platform doesn't have problems, but I think that over time, many of these will be resolved.
Re:Obvious flame from MSNBC. (Score:3, Insightful)
Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
Look at the column again. They guy doesn't know what he is talking about. He is a producer, not a journalist. If this is part of Microsoft's anti Linux Jihad, it reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition's comfy chair. So lighten up.
Re:Obvious flame from MSNBC. (Score:3, Informative)
Come on people, are our memories so short as to forget that MSNBC is one of the biggest mainstream Microsoft criticsers? (Maybe MS has clamped down?) Here are some of their MS-Critical articles:
Microsoft's Accidental Virus [msnbc.com]
Microsoft Announces New Software Flaw [msnbc.com]
Microsoft's monopoly extends to Web, SBC executive charges [msnbc.com]
Microsoft exec urged Linux reprisal [msnbc.com]
States: Microsoft uses Windows to take advantage of rival developers [msnbc.com]
Microsoft witness says he never read proposed antitrust penalties [msnbc.com]
Microsoft music, movie player collects log of users' entertainment [msnbc.com]
Microsoft's Isle of Denial [msnbc.com]
Microsoft witness admits to tension with software firm [msnbc.com]
Need I go on? (Now I am not a lawyer but...) If Microsft influences MSNBC, a press/media company to send out pro-MSFT biased news all the time, this would be likely be illegal and fall into a legal area where sentors, judges and juries are not largely uninformed and clueless. That treading on the ground of infringing freedom of the press. (Maybe they are shooting themselves in the foot right about now!)
Oh great! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oh great! (Score:5, Informative)
It clearly retorts its own headline, and explains that in fact linux is NOT dead.
"A recent survey of 800 companies in North America and Western Europe found that some 40 percent said they were either using or testing Linux, according to the research firm IDC. With some 27 percent of the market, Linux is now the second most popular operating system for servers, supplanting the decades-old operating system UNIX; Microsoft holds the top spot."
Future generations... (Score:4, Interesting)
...will point to this time and say "2002 was the year Microsoft lost the war."
Why will they say this?
But then again, I still don't understand why SQL Server is selling so well when the same codebase can be obtained for free from linux.sybase.com.
Still, free software is a flood that is rising around Microsoft, and Microsoft is busy trying to build something that floats. It is unlikely that they will succeed, given the importance of their legacy support.
Pot. Kettle. Black. (Score:4, Informative)
You speak of how bad root is...most W2K servers are locally booted with the Administrator account, and most services run with the W2K System account, which is just as bad as running as Administrator.
W2K has all the vulnerabilities you speak of and more...because there are far more people developing worms, virii and whatnot for W2K. I don't know enough about
I know these things...I'm an MCSE.
Re:Oh great! (Score:3, Insightful)
Finish? Isn't he Finnish?
And this somehow indicates a failure?
How many years did it take for MS-Windows to completely eliminate MS-DOS? And that was with many years of massive marketing. I'd say the desktop penetration linux enjoys with so little desktop marketing and such an immature set of desktop tools is amazing in its own right.
X11 has been on linux almost from the beginning. I recall installing from a stack of floppies onto my old 386 when my 386 had just been superceded by a 486, and X was an option. I tried installing and using X, but found that my hard disk was inadequate. At the time, hard disk space was expensive. Now, that's not to say that the gui was friendly, but its been there for a good long while.
Linux is still coming of age. It seems to be spending its childhood in servers, but in the coming years it will probably enjoy a somewhat larger share of the desktop market as the desktop evolves. It may never eclipse Microsoft, but then again, not being the biggest doesn't equate to being a failure.
Ooooohh (Score:4, Funny)
/. says 'Linux r00l5'.
An exciting discussion to follow, I'm sure...
Re:Ooooohh (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, it describes a rather accurate picture of the present situation: rapid growth in the server market, improvements of the desktop software, the beginning of Linux preloaded PCs, MS brewing more weird stuff.
Nothing we already don't know, though. It must be a slow news day.
In another article.... (Score:3, Funny)
Sheesh.
MSnbc (Score:2, Funny)
Advertising would help (Score:2, Interesting)
Appealing to to pricing aspect would be a good first advertising angle.
Re:Advertising would help (Score:2)
The best thing going for Linux is the fact that University programs teach it and promote it. Kids graduate every semester praising it. Give it time. Word of mouth goes a long way when a product is free (and stable).
Re:Advertising would help (Score:2)
A new slogan for Linux (Score:5, Funny)
Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
That's all, hardly any news, and by no means an intersting article IMHO.
Now should i post a story to MSNBC stating that "It appears that Slashdot is reporting that MSNBC is spreading M$ fud"?
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
So whatever happened to Linux?
and skip the rest of the article. Like our editors.
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither do I, but without a writeup and title like the ones that were given for this story, do you think there'd be 800 comments here?
It's all about provoking the herd mentality to generate banner ad revenue. Stories like this make all three LNUX shareholders happy!
- A.P.
Re:Not quite (Score:3, Insightful)
II think it is going to take more than just a few years to crack a hole in that shell.
Sheesh, even MS itself has a hard time with that .
Despite all the arm twisting with pricing, backwards incompatibility (genuine or not) and big advertising campaigns, you still have loads of consumers running moss-covered versions of Windows that are not up to "XP".(3.1, 95, 98, 98Se, ME)
If MS has a hard time convincing consumers to upgrade their hardware given all the resources at their disposal (like getting OEMs to preload the new OS), you can bet Linux will have an even harder time.
The slow pace of Linux desktop penetration is no mystery.
Likewise, there is no mystery as to why the uptake of Linux in the server arena has been so rapid. It's growth has been strong, even if its growth has not been equal to the media hype of two years ago.
Re:Not quite (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple has, since the introduction of the iMac and especially since OS X, definitely cracked a hole in their shell. Linux doesn't need legislation, it needs a decent end-user product.
Re:Not quite (Score:3, Funny)
You may be right; my experience agrees with you. But that doesn't address his claim, that configurability should take a backseat to unified usability.
Is he right? I'd say that he is. Yes, I want all our stuff to remain configurable; however, more and more that configurability should focus to a point. When I change the way the help system works, ALL the help facilities should change (except the ones I ask to not change, of course -- and those shouldn't just be the ones the author happened to use the wrong help viewer on).
A Windows user doesn't have to configure, and doesn't have a huge amount of choice; but the choices he does have apply pretty consistently throughout the system. Well, at least that's the goal
-Billy (who keeps mistyping 'usability' as 'suability')
Read the article... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Read the article... (Score:5, Informative)
Wanted: moderation for the articles (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes (often!) I wish Slashdot let you moderate the articles and not just the posts; this one would have been (-1, Troll) very quickly.
Re:Wanted: moderation for the articles (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Read the article... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it is. There have been many occasions when several different versions of a story are submitted, out of which only the most sensational is posted. Sensationalism draws readers. Readers provide click-thrus. Click-thrus equal money.
Mind you, Taco and his gang have never made any secret of the fact Slashdot is really just a glorified 'blog, with all of the ranting and advocacy that 'blogging entails.
However, the editorial control here is getting so bad as to sometimes border on slander. Methinks the success has gone to their heads.
(And if you think I don't know what I'm talking about, look at my user ID. I've been reading Slashdot for years.)
Re:Read the article... (Score:5, Insightful)
There was even a quote about the MS monopoly being partly responsible for this: closed office file formats, and PCs that 'automatically' ship with Windows and no other choices.
So, I disagree with the posted story. This article is another in a long series of "Linux has not won the desktop" articles, and is the first one I've seen that comes close to laying the blame partly on MS.
Re:Read the article... (Score:4, Interesting)
It is these type of subtle messages that constitute "spin control" of the part of the article's author.
How is this article biased against Linux (Score:2, Informative)
read the article (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:read the article (Score:4, Informative)
According to him, Evolution is a desktop environment and he implies that Lindows is in the office suite business. I'm not implying any malice here, but the guy really needs to do a bit more research before opening his yap.
But yeah, it's definitely not the intentional troll that the
Interestingly enough, though, he does allude to (albeit unintentionally) Linux's REAL "innovation" for desktop computers: price. Where else but WalMart can you now find a computer for a mere $299??!? This is a clear demonstration of why Linux desktops, should they continue to improve usability-wise, and gain more end-user software (and they will) will soon become a major market. Quite simply, they're just cheaper, making them more available. I'd argue that 99% of users DON'T CARE about "Tablet PC's" and all that crap. They want a regular PC for the web, email, and a little light "office" work, maybe play a few games, and balance their checkbook, and they want it all for *cheap*. Linux desktops aren't quite there on the feature front, but it'll always cost less than any version of Windows.
Re:read the article (Score:4, Insightful)
Before flaming the guy, maybe YOU should read a little more closely and do some research. The article says, "High on the list of headaches is incompatibilities with files created with Microsoft products like Word. Small software makers like Lindows are trying to help desktop users bridge that divide."
Which is essentially true. If you examine Lindows' web site, you'll notice that the first FAQ says "Our goal is to eventually run some of the more popular Windows® software. That's an ambitious objective that will take time to achieve. At this time, Microsoft® Office 2000 has undergone the most testing and is the most compatible."
Lindows makes no secret that their biggest objective is being able to run Office.
Yes but No (Score:3, Interesting)
But the MSNBC article is riddled with factual inacuracies, slanted language, and selective omissions.
"Small software makers like Lindows are trying to help desktop users bridge that divide."
Small? Relative to what? MS? GM and CocaCola are small compared to MS!
"A Linux-based open-source program called Evolution looks pretty much like a standard Windows desktop."
What on earth does Evolution have to do with the desktop? Other than being made by the folks at GNOME?
"WalMart recently began selling a house brand PC at rock bottom prices -- available with Linux for the thriftiest PC buyers."
Read Cheap. It's an old FUD, that linux users are cheap, and wont spend money. If that's true go talk to the folks at Ximian who get monthly subscriptions, just for better connection speeds (and of corse StarOffice!). Or about SlashDot subscribers. Truth is that Linux users (curently) arent' cheap, they are just very educated, and know what not to waste their money on. Give them a product worth paying for and they WILL pay for it.
(of course that meens producing quality product and such, most of the corporate world seems to be of the notion that if you advertise something enough the sheeple will buy it)
"Home users are cheap," he said. "At $49.95, you're going to have to sell a whole lot of (copies) to make it in the market."
Totaly out of context. This has as much to do with Windows as it does with Linux. Home users don't have 3 grand to blow on an acounting package, but last I checked Intuit was doing OK.
"The Linux operating system, and other "open source" alternatives written by devoted bands of volunteer programmers, would be available to anyone for the cost of a download. But today, Windows is still running on the vast majority of PCs. So what happened?"
So what is OS X?
Nah, no one uses Mac...
Failed? (Score:5, Funny)
MICROSOFT DECLARES FOES DEFEATED (Score:5, Funny)
MSNBC Sr. Producer (Score:2)
This Just in.... (Score:2, Funny)
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Linux community when MSNBC confirmed that Linux market share has not risen significantly in comparison to others, less than 5 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent MSNBC survey which plainly states that Linux has lost more market share to Windows, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Linux is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent MCSE comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Linux's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Linux because Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for Linux. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
All major surveys show that Linux has steadily declined in market share. Linux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Linux is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. Linux continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Linux is dead.
Fact: Linux is dying
Hm... (Score:2)
We're shifting our development to Java because there's no need for interopability.
Reading this guy's note, the reason why Linux has failed? Because it hasn't taken over the entire Desktop market.
Um...duh. Isn't there a whole trial about why you can't get Linux/BeOS/OS//2 in the marketplace today?
So Linux hasn't won the Desktop market. Maybe it will, maybe it never will. But last I checked, it's moving very well into the server marketplace. It's doing well in colleges. More companies are supporting it every day (and not just little nobodies - folks like Sun, IBM, HP, etc).
I'm patient. I personally use OS X for most of my desktop stuff (IMHO, the best Unix operating system I've worked with), and still rely on Linux on the server side.
Perhaps the whole Pallendrom-thing from MS will shift more companies over to Linux-based OS's for the desktop (hm...we can either spend money to register our custom made applications so they'll run with these new computers and Windows XP Stranglehold version, or switch our computers to Linux and spend the money in development. Hm....)
Lament (Score:2)
Everything I live for is gone
typical slashdot response (Score:2, Insightful)
I have not seen any evidence to indicate that Linux is making significant inroads into the home, and all the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to change that. The article does say that Linux is getting better (in terms of usability, compatability, etc), and I don't think anyone can dispute that either. It just ain't there yet.
Linux is dead? (Score:5, Funny)
Or so many people at -1 keep saying, anyhow...
TELNET (Score:3, Funny)
He doesn't know anything about Linux (Score:2)
From his article, I soaked in two points basic points.
Linux is dead because the huge Wall Street hype machine has died down, and Red Hat isn't making any money.
First, Red Hat != Linux. There is constant innovation and development in Linux, and while Red Hat is a significant force, they are not the whole.
Linux survived for 9 years before Wall Street dildoheads ever knew that it was the next big IPO craze.
Finally, Microsoft is terrified of Linux (which makes the article kind of interesting given the source), even more so today than ever. You can probably find an article on Slashdot on any given day on how Microsoft is trying to do something to kill open source: linking it to terrorism, embrace and extend, incompatible hardware standards, lobbying, etc.
In my direct work experience, the number of systems I deal with running Linux is increasing, not decreasing.
Bad interpretation (Score:2)
They also plug MS products so it's definitely biased and more advertising for MS shrouded in a Linux article in an attempt to get geeks to read it.
I think the poster deserves to me marked as flamebait more than the MSNBC article. After all, who reads MSNBC tech news anyways?
In other unbiased news... (Score:3, Funny)
Two Glaring Un-Truths (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmmmm
High on the list of headaches is incompatibilities with files created with Microsoft products like Word.
Eh? [openoffice.org] OpenOffice.org reads/writes Word/Excel docs perfectly. Aside from some bullet-point font issues, Powerpoint handles perfectly as well.
I know people have said MSNBC was good at cracking back at Microsoft, but the author doesn't seem to be going anything other than spraying the same ol' FUD we've all grown obvlivious to.
Where will it end? (Score:2, Funny)
First Windows, now Windows sales... When will they reboot the world?
Someone still likes it... (Score:2)
Notice he said "upgrade"...
And we care about this because? (Score:2)
In a related development... (Score:2, Insightful)
Evolution is a GREAT... desktop? (Score:2)
Or, maybe, it resembles an e-mail/groupware application a bit.
Little slip-ups like this show that the author just might not have even looked at Linux at all.
Rate the story a 1 (Score:2, Interesting)
Well yes .. but ... (Score:2)
Personally I think Linux will suceed on the server way before it ever suceeds on the desktop. I think in the future we'll see a 20% market share of Linux on the desktop - but it'll be many years before that realistically happens.
In short, it was over-hyped. Now is the time to be realistic and not fall into the same trap again. But writing it off, is a tad premature.
-1 Troll... (Score:2)
Do you guys ever read the articles posted here? (Score:2)
What a silly thing to say. (Score:2)
I have been running Linux almost exclusively for over five years. Sure it's not quite as streamlined on the desktop as MS, but it'll get there when Linux users decide that's what they want. I don't even run X, so I could not care less.
In another 30 years, when people are still saying "Linux is Dead", people still won't get it. But it'll be there and it'll be thriving. And you can tell your kids about what it was like when you were a kid and there was an OS monopoly.
Article has some valid points (Score:3, Informative)
First, it is true that as a commercial venture, Linux has largely been a failure - the problems of VA, RedHat, and many others simply cannot be ignored. But as many have pointed out, this doesn't mean Linux itself is dead at all.
Second, Linux still has not gained any major inroads in the personal computer world. Yes, I know WalMart sells Linux-able PCs, that many embedded devices run Linux, and many people use Linux on their PCs, but there still aren't many/any desktop PCs shipping with Linux.
The article mainly focuses on the commercial aspect of Linux, which as I have already mentioned, is a valid point. However, most people here know that Linux can be a useful desktop OS, does have a large following, and is excellent for embedded applications and servers.
The point? Take this article in stride, and take its criticisms to heart - Linux has failed in 10 years to make any strong inraods into the personal computer market, commercially speaking. If Linux hopes to ever make it past the server/embedded market, this should be a huge focus (and judging from projects like KDE and Gnome, that effort is well underway).
Did anybody actually READ the article? (Score:5, Informative)
The first half the article praises Linux for being a low cost server solution that a LOT of companies are using. There is even a quote from a HP exec who says "Now Linux is becoming more mainstream every day."
The second half does go into the desktop area of Linux, which they say is lacking, and then it goes on to say it IS getting better with things such as Star Office and OpenOffice, but it still needs to overcome the problem of Windows being installed on pretty much every pre-built computer sold.
Nowhere in this article does it say anything about Linux being dead. It's more of a "What's Linux up to?"
Re:Did anybody actually READ the article? (Score:5, Funny)
Everybody except CmdrTaco.
The MS in MSNBC (Score:2)
No one who cannot rejoice in the discovery of his own mistakes deserves to be called a scholar. -- Prof. Donald Foster
Eh...did I read the same article? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's hardly mentioning it as a failed operating system, rather saying "A recent survey of 800 companies in North America and Western Europe found that some 40 percent said they were either using or testing Linux, according to the research firm IDC. With some 27 percent of the market, Linux is now the second most popular operating system for servers, supplanting the decades-old operating system UNIX..."
It continues with more info, but mostly what we've all heard before...Linux faces an uphill battle in the desktop arena, does well in the server arena, etc.
Oh, wait. I'm sorry, I'm completely mistaken in this post. The article came from MSNBC, a "Microsoft-NBC joint venture". Therefore it must slam Linux at every possible turn. It's not possible that it actually might report information we'd agree with.
Get a grip people, jesus.
Did anyone actually read the article?! (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't see anywhere where he has said Linux is failed in the article. He's merely pointing out a fact that most of us know: Linux is fantastic for servers, but "not ready for prime time" when it comes to the broad-based desktop market. Like it or not, Linux is still harder to use than Windows for a huge percentage of the population. While I don't agree with his characterization of the command-line stuff as an "archane vocabulary," there is some merit to the point that a lot of people can't handle the command line. Overall, I find it a well-balanced article about facts: Redhat was pushing Linux as a replacement for Windows on everyone's home and office desk. It just hasn't reached that point. His point seems to be that it doesn't even NEED to reach that point because it's gaining so much ground in the server market.
Normal Uninformed Media Article (Score:2)
Point is, this guy didn't do his research, his article is based off of the fact that he hasn't heard much about Linux lately. I've heard a lot about it, perhaps it is because I work in this industry? Perhaps it is because I stay on top of the latest news in my industry? Apparently he doesn't, that's fine, but what makes him think he should write an article about it?
Very bad for Micro$oft (Score:4, Funny)
Journalistic Bias (Score:2)
Microsoft's best defense against Linux these days is that it is un-American (or worse, an illegal violation of intellectual property rights) to use free software. This article seems to me to take for granted the idea that all software must cost money, no matter what. Hence, they focus on RedHat (who is currently losing money) as a representative of all Linux users. They also assume that Linux has failed simply because it hasn't taken over the desktop market completely.
Articles like this aren't dangerous because they declare Linux dead. Even my computer-illiterate friends can explain to me why no article on MSNBC will ever say good things about Linux (or Solaris, or OS X, or FreeBSD, or BeOS, or OS/2, etc). This article is dangerous because of the ideas it gets into people's heads. For example, that all production-quality software is commerical. Or that open source is an affront to capitalism. Or that open-source is insecure, or that it violates intellectual property rights (not in this article, but in other places).
The question is, how do you fight against such widespread assumptions?
linux and the slow advance (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, things are improving. The support of IBM and others and their initiatives is coating linux with the candy coating of acceptability. If large groups begin to adopt linux on the desktop with open office, we are then on the verge of a true potential transition. Desktop use will translate into server comfort.
Finally, it hasn't helped that the last milestone release, 2.4, was a colossal mess. My 2.0.x and 2.2.x boxes were totally, utterly rock solid as servers. I upgraded one to 2.4 -- and it is now an unreliable piece of crap. It fails with kernel panics at any time (albeit infrequently), and almost always dies ~45 days into uptime. Every box I ever tried to use ext3 on died a horrible death, and that didn't make me particularly happy. FreeBSD and I are now getting well acquainted.
Despite all this, Linux has continued to make inroads. And of course it has hype -- it has become, and remains, the primary alternative in the minds of IT people everywhere to the monopolists from Redmond. Since they are a multi-hundred-billion-dollar company, and are tied into every aspect of the industry, saying something might challenge them is a bit like suggesting something might shift the Earth off its orbit -- it will cause ubiquitous change. And Linux is hardly down and out. The sad thing is that venture capital is so dead. NOW is the time of opportunity for fresh linux companies to step up and replace microsoft in places that really want to keep their budgets down. A return to the boom days just means that hundreds of dollars of windows upgrades and office software and such is no longer a big deal...again. Get in there while the gettin's good, I say.
Um... There is a good point here, guys.... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, Linux on the desktop has not been successful. That's the reality. "Mom and Dad" PC users - who make up a large demographic of typical consumers - are not using Linux on the desktop. Big corporations are not using Linux on the desktop. There are lots of reasons for all this, but in the end they boil down to:
Case in point: I am currently developing a strategy on replacing 23,000 OS/2 platforms in my company. I have 2 basic choices for these desktops - Linux and Windows. Both have pros and cons around cost, stability, app availability, support, etc. Even though could save us millions of $$$ in licensing costs alone, Linux will be an uphill climb given the perceived lack of maturity and support in the vendor market. Linux needs a big-ass corporation (like IBM or HP) to really drive the momentum into the desktop.
Otherwise, it feels like the OS/2 saga all over again....*sigh*
Other great slashdot headline (Score:5, Funny)
Is OpenSource better?
Natalie Portman: Hot or Not?
Cowboy Neal?
Failed on the Desktop... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I can't use Linux on the Desktop. I just can't. XFree86 with GNOME and KDE just doesn't cut the GUI mustard. That's not a bad thing. Just means the Linux Desktop folks are going to have to do more work...someone will get it right. When you think about it, a bunch of unpaid people scattered around the world actually built a consumer OS...for free, for anyone! Amazing progress.
Its not that people are afraid of a UNIX/UNIX-like OS for their desktop. Microsoft has been shoveling that FUD BS for the last six months. Mac OS X has done very well in its 1 1/2 year of existence in gaining market share. Linux on the Desktop folks ought to take a hard look at Aqua and Quartz and think if XFree86 and Window Managers are still the way to go for GUI on Linux. As the Marketing Department at Apple says, "Think Different". "Think Differently" for the grammatically anal.
Nothing untrue in the article at all. /. however.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Said Linux has made great strides in the server arena - TRUE
Said Linux has not made a noticable impact on the desktop market - TRUE
Said Linux user apps are improving - TRUE
Slasdot:
Said MSNBC reported Linux is dead - FALSE
Said Article gave Linux as little credit as possible - FALSE
Re:Nothing untrue in the article at all. /. howeve (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead, they handed the guy a flamethrower in full knowledge that a large percentage of the posters would be kneejerkers -- which brings in more hits and page views. And you suggest that they aren't responsible for that?
Re:Nothing untrue in the article at all. /. howeve (Score:3, Interesting)
2001-10-05 16:20:38 Andrei Dmitriyevich Sakharov (features,enlightenment) (rejected)
2002-01-21 15:09:06 Slashdot censorship (yro,slashdot) (rejected)
2002-02-03 16:02:31 Is fetus a child? (articles,news) (rejected)
2002-06-18 22:31:59 Just paid for a 2 months Kuro5hin subscription (askslashdot,news) (rejected)
But articles with headlines like: "Is Linux Dead?", "Bill Gates Is The Devil", "All Hail To Red Hat" will be posted no problem.
So who rejects and accepts the articles?
That's it.
Lay off MSNBC (Score:5, Informative)
If you read MSNBC alot, like I do, you'll find:
1. It's a hell of a lot more responsible, journalism wise, then abcnews.
2. They are not shy about printing articles that put MS in a bad light.
Sections like letters to the editor (where they frequently publish letters from people who sharply disagree with them) and their Ombudsman (currently the position is unfilled, the last guy moved on after a year) used to publically evaluate their journalistic practices and comment or criticize them, by their own employee, has caused me to respect them a great deal.
Say what you like about MS, but MSNBC is a great news site.
Desktop MVS is dead too. (Score:3, Insightful)
At any rate there a few things Linux is not good at:
AOLIM
Burning CD's
Playing popular game/entertainment titles.
Supporting the home Encyclopedia/Bartlett's
Supporting MS office email attachments
Any kind of demoware you get in the mail
Getting broadbad ISP support - AOL. Earthlink (oh you have Lunix? click.)
Of course it begs the question that if Linux COULD do all of that would it not become Windows anyway and lose the reliability, stability and low horsepower requirements that make you want to use it to begin with? It would become..... Apple?
Oh Come on (Score:5, Insightful)
This whole headline thing makes slashdot look bad, it makes the people that recommend slashdot look bad. Instead of trying to become professional and taking an industry lead I still can't view slashdot than anything more than a hobby site and the bad thing is that I guess the editors think this will last forever. It won't; it just won't.
I understand journalism, sensationalism, I understand the readers of the site are the ones that submit the stories. I understand this; what I don't understand is how this blatant bashing of Microsoft helps anyone. It's as if we've started to play their game of blatant outright lying. I hate Microsoft and if it was up to me I'd probably throw each and every single employee into some type of chinese water torcher camp but this is just stupid. Please; stop it.
Lets continue to play with facts and not play their game of cat and mouse. We won't gain anything the way they play and it will only make us look like hypocrites.
Thanks for telling us! (Score:3, Interesting)
All on a budget less that the cost of a Sun 4500.
There was only one solution on the market: linux. I used the IPVS [linuxvirtualserver.org] heartbeat + mon + fake + coda layout with Apache for virtual hosting and front-end, Weblogic for the java backend, Zope for my CMS / Document Management, daemontools for process monitoring, Checkpoint firewalls (not my choice mind you) and last but not least linux on every single machine in the farm(s). I have multiple NICs with bonded channels between the servers providing me with near-Gb Ethernet speeds between my data servers and hosts.
Linux took our server from from 100% M$ and literally constant system crashes and reboots to 100% (so-far) uptime except for scheduled outages AT&T is our telco and they only give us 99.96% uptime.
At least here, M$ is dead. We are evaluating linux on the desktop to see if we can use Wine with Lotus Notes and Office. If so then we might start switching desktops for some groups.
Obligatory Reference (Score:4, Funny)
[Linux] Im not dead yet! Im getting Better! I feel fine! I think Ill go for a walk! I feel happy! I feel Happy! I feel Hap~*thunk*
"At this PC convention.." What/Where? (Score:3, Insightful)
Like this:
"At PC conventions like this one, Microsoft's Windows operating system still rules, with some 94 percent of the operating system market for desktops and laptop PCs, according to IDC. Despite its growing popularity among computer professionals, it's still not completely 'user friendly'."
Where is this guy? That's like me walking to SOME BUILDING SOMEHERE, and saying "At business like this one, X rules". It's one thing if there's a TV camera recording the event, you might know what kinds of business use 'X'.
It an opinion piece, with no real supporting facts, other than 'at conventions like this one'. It could be Rummage-O-Rama as far as we know..
Doesn't anybody read these articles... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just the same old "Linux is dominating the server market, progress on the desktop is slow, but it's getting better" story we've been seeing all year.
It's definitely not a "Linux is dead" story.
May I Make an Observation Here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Way to shoot yourself in the foot, dumbass. I'll bet that gets you *lots* of consumer interest right there. Or maybe that's a subtle twist of the knife by MSNBC. Grr.
Computers in general were just for geeks 20 years ago. Well, geeks, and businesses that wanted to manage information they didn't even know they had in ways they didn't even know were possible. Now, you can't get away from the things - much as you might want to.
I don't know about any of you folks, but I'm getting sick of the dismissive connotations of "geek." Maybe I'm just a little sensative, but it seems to me that the geek mindset has made more lasting, permanent contributions to the state of the everyday world in general than any other clique - curiousity, tenacatity, a ravenous hunger to know how things work and to make them better for anyone who cares.
Caveman geeks made the wheel.
GMFTatsujin
Re:May I Make an Observation Here? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about any of you folks, but I'm getting sick of the dismissive connotations of "geek."
Ummm. He didn't say anything bad about geeks. He said that Linux appeals to them and not to typical desktop users yet. That's a given!
I can't believe how hard people are scanning this article looking for the tiniest slant so that they can feel victimized by MSNBC. Some other guy was ranting about how they put the words "open source" in quotes. Sheesh, get a grip.
Right In One Way (Score:3, Insightful)
But there is more to Linux than the desktop. Linux is a great server OS and has been growing in market share. Combined with Apache, it's a great web-server platform that you can get FREE. As an embeded OS, Linux is doing great too. How much more do you think a TiVo would cost if they had to pay MS to do stuff for them? Not only that, they'd (probably) need better hardware to do the exact same thing. By using Linux on a platform that was already supported, they were able to save tons of time and money.
And let's not forget that Linux started as a hobbiest OS, and it has succeded greatly at this. I use, many other hobbiests do. It would cost a fortune to get some of the things Linux and the GNU project give me for free (development tools for every language, ludicrious ammounts of customizability) for Win 2k or XP.
Last of all, Linux is definatly improving. I've only been using it for a year or two and it is getting much better. But I still use Win 2k on my Windows box. Why? That's how I can support dual processors. And for me, XP has nothing new in it except it's anti-copying stuff which is a step BACK. I don't think that Windows is getting much better for me, do you? XP is what, 4 or 5 years newer, an there is no new great thing that I should get it for? Many people still use 2k very happily. How many people still use a version of Linux from 4 to 5 years ago because they see nothing out now that's any good? If they use that old version, it's on old hardware or because the computer hasn't been rebooted since '98, not because nothing in Linux has improved. Sure there are exceptions to this but lets face it. Linux is a dramatic success in the three areas that (IMHO) it focuses on: server, embeded, and hobbiest.
wait wait wait (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I'm pretty happy (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe the Microsoft partnerships and service agreements that prohibited retailers from selling computers preinstalled with non-MS operating systems had something to do with it.
Imagine that! (Score:3, Funny)
Now that it's dead, they have no hope of killing it off - sort of a "dawn of the dead" scenario. Linux, the ghoul os. You might kill it, but it keeps coming back, like Jason in Friday the 13th.
It's dead, and it still works - didn't even miss a beat. Beat that, MSNBullshit!
Re:MSNBC has failed as a news channel (Score:2, Informative)
actually, that's exactly what the article says. the frontpage blurb is the usual /. overreaction.
Re:MSNBC has failed as a news channel (Score:2)
Re:ooh, gotta reformat this thing now! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ms shilling (Score:2)
We are allowed to feel any way we wish. But at least our bias doesn't come from a hunger for new revenue streams.
Re:Dead? (Score:3, Funny)
Marketing 101 (Score:3, Insightful)
Its called, build hype for your product while spreading rumors and doubt about the competiting product.
Sony has done this against Sega and Nintendo.
Microsoft has done this before as well.
What you do is, you tell everyone you are coming out with a new product right when your competition is about to go mainstream. (PS2 hype begins when DC begain to sell more than 5 million systems)
Then you get articles printed about how your competitions product is doomed to fail, you pick it apart. While not everyone will believe the article, thousands of people will, which can turn to millions, which can kill the competiting product.
Linux luckily has a community and zealot strength behind it, if it were an ordinary company, Microsoft would have just put the final nail in the coffin,
People will be thinking
"should I get Longhorn or Linux? Well this article on MSNBC says Linux is dead, and Bill Gates was on TV last night in that interview saying good things about longhorn, I think I'll go with what I already have and get longhorn"
Re:oh yeah right... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Actually... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's great in the server market, it has a way to go in the desktop market, the hype has died down, the stocks fell, but a good product continues to be developed.
If I were running a business and I read that article it would spark interest, not turn me away.
Frankly I thought it was sincere and balanced coverage. But I guess since it didn't get on its knees and pray to the mighty gods of Opensource, it will be read as FUD here. (Though, judging from the other posts, I don't think it was read at all)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
'sides, he's talking about big companies. How many of those Apache "servers" are home computers serving up personal content? They don't serve much content, don't have that many users, and generally aren't exactly mission-critical.
Random sampling of some big entities (via Netcraft), trying to limit guesses to well-known organizations and aren't directly in the fray:
- Amazon: Apache/Linux
- Ebay: IIS/Windows
- NY Times: Netscape/Solaris
- Buy.com: IIS/Solaris
- Bn.com: IIS/Windows
- id Software: IIS/Windows
- Interplay: IIS/Windows
- Washington Post: Netscape/Solaris
- CNN: Netscape/Solaris
- Dell: IIS/Windows
- IBM: IBM_HTTP_SERVER/Apache(?)/AIX
- US Bank: IIS/unknown (but IIS isn't exactly portable...)
- Morgan Stanley Dean Witter: Netscape/Solaris
- General Motors: Netscape/Solaris
- Playboy: Netscape/Solaris
- Penthouse: Apache/Solaris
- General Electric: Netscape/Solaris
- Bantam: Apache/Solaris
- Yahoo!: unknown/FreeBSD
- ebworld: IIS/Windows
- US State Department: Netscape/Solaris
- UPS: Netscape/Solaris
Judging from that, Solaris and Windows are each FAR FAR more prevalent than Linux.
Re:This is pathetic. (Score:5, Insightful)
Jennifer E. Elaan wrote:
> This is really starting to sound like certain
> other operating systems. Every month or two
> somebody declares Linux dead. While the most
> obvious is OS/2, that one DID finally die in the
> end, but took 6 or 7 years to do so. And there
> is STILL a couple projects to reimplement it, so
> the death seems to be the fault of closed-source
> software.
But OS/2 isn't completely dead. There are still new versions being made. There are new programs coming out for it. And a few people even still use it.
> Contrast also with Apple.
Apple died. Apple was resurrected. Now Apple is launching itself at Microsoft's jugular. All is right with the world.
> it's not the number but the derivative (rate of
> change) that you have to look at, in order to
> declare an operating system dead.
Very insightful.
> By this logic, Linux is still kicking, but
> Windows is dead, since Windows is no longer
> really increasing in use (they still have sales,
> but they're almost all "upgrade" sales, hence
> the attempted change of license methods).
Oh, Linux is very much alive and kicking. It's heroism in barring Microsoft from getting a monopoly in the server-space is to be highly praised. It makes a great embedded OS, I love it on my Zaurus. And make no mistake, Linux will follow Apple to the desktop, now that Apple has shown the way.
> And, somebody please explain, HOW do you kill an
> open-source work? People like me will always
> tinker with it, because it's FUN.
It can't be killed. Neither can some proprietary software long thought dead, if Netscape (and its open source partner Mozilla), Word Perfect, Lotus 123, and others are any indication. You can buy a computer now with one of the latter two preinstalled. As for Netscape and Mozilla, they and the other browsers just won 1.3 percent of the browser market back from Microsoft!!!
The market, thanks to Microsoft's greed and cruelty, is really hungry right now for alternatives to Microsoft in any and all markets. Products once thought dead are coming back to life, and new ones are coming out of the woodwork. ALL of Microsoft's monopolies can be taken away, by the consumer, right now! Everything is up for grabs, and I wouldn't count even Be OS or OS/2 out now, if they still have something to offer somebody.
Godzilla 2000, the Dreaded God!
The battle for Earth's future has begun!
The future Millenium threatens.
(From my lyrics to Godzilla's theme from "Godzilla 2000 Millenium")