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Linux Software

O'Reilly Showcases PS2 Linux Gear 196

Posted by timothy from the santa-bides-his-time dept.
cascadefx writes: "The O'Reilly Network is currently running an article that showcases the much talked about Playstation 2 Linux distribution. Nice parts of the article include analysis by a Blizzard developer on the Linux PS2 as a gaming platform and a screenshot and pic of the hardware that comes with it."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

O'Reilly Showcases PS2 Linux Gear More

O'Reilly Showcases PS2 Linux Gear

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  • There's no way to execute a PS2 Game DVD from the linux system if you boot up in Linux. The only way to play a game on the box when it's been Linuxed is to reboot with a game disc in the drive. Also, while you can develop your own stuff, there's no way to write it out to a CD/DVD that can play on any PS2 without the linux kit.
    • Makes you wonder what the point of it is, doesn't it. What does Sony expect one to do with this kit?

      I can imagine a meeting along the lines of "People like ot install Linux on game machines, lets sell them a version!" "Okay, just make sure they can't make games for it. If they want to do that, they must pay royalties."
      • Actually, that might be exactly why they did it. If you look at the results of the survey that they did prior to releasing the distro, the majority of the reponses indicated that they would use it as a hobby instead of for some professional reason. (can't find the link right now and its not appearing on the PS2 linux site).

        Besides, the main source of revenue for Sony on the PS2 is royalties - from what I recall, the unit is basically sold at or below cost. So they have to have to restriction to still make money. If they don't make money then they won't make the PS2 anymore.

        And if you were a commerical software company and you had choice of:

        A) Fork big bucks over to Sony to write games for the PS2.
        B) Pay $200 for the linux kit and nothing else.

        which would you choose?
        • Heh i got modded down for being a 'Troll'. I honestly didn't mean it that way. Oh well.

          "Actually, that might be exactly why they did it. If you look at the results of the survey that they did prior to releasing the distro, the majority of the reponses indicated that they would use it as a hobby instead of for some professional reason"

          I remember something along those lines. I think if that was behind the decision to not include things like DVD support, then Sony misinterpreted people a bit. I think the expectation to porting Linux to the PS2 is that a hobbyist would be able to access the entire machine. But it sounds like Sony crippled it, presumably to prevent ppl from exploiting it.

          That's kind of the problem with having a company release a product that has it's own interests to protect.

          Pity, Sony could have had a really good reputation for being 'hackable' if they had supported it. I might have bought a PS2 just to play with the apps that other people make.

          • Hackable consoles (Score:2, Insightful)

            by olman ( 127310 )
            You're forgetting that the console is not the product. Far from it. The real product is the license fees they're getting from each and every game produced for it. And, of course, tidy revenue from all of the extra doo-dahs like feedback racing wheels etc.

            So, you give away the console for free, or at least pretty close to what it's costing for you to build one and cart it over to the shelf.. So that you can start carting money to the bank from all the games and stuff people buy for your console.

            The decision to limit what you can do with your cool linux port is probably due to beancounter paranoia. The same reason you cannot use SCART RGB output for DVD playback. RGB spec doesn't allow for Macrovision, so we must not support it. Anyone with half a brain concerned about people taping DVDs to VCRs? I don't think so. But a corporate beancounter doesn't exactly fit into the "half a brain" category.
    • You're forgetting the fact the the PS2 has a USB port. So it should be able to work with any USB media source, e.g. CD/DVD drives, as well as hard disks. That means writing as well as reading...
      • Yeah, I'm talking about being able to share my stuff with anyone who DIDN'T shell out the big bucks for the Linux kit.
        • The PS2 wasn't designed to be able to read CD-R/DVD-R media anyway...only developers' blue boxes can reliably do that. So to call this a cripple isn't exactly accurate.

          And how long do you imagine it will take someone (or someones) to reverse-engineer the layer separating developers from the hardware? If that were possible, one could put together what's basically a runtime environment to distribute with/around homebrew ps2 games that would run on vanilla systems.

          Or am I crazy?
    • Also, while you can develop your own stuff, there's no way to write it out to a CD/DVD that can play on any PS2 without the linux kit.

      Couldn't you just transfer a developed game onto another machine using the ethernet though, and write to a DVD that way? I'm not sure how the game is actually read, but I'd assume someone can figure a way to backwards engineer it.

      This is a pretty sweet product, and relatively inexpensive for its usefulness. Too bad I just updated my current system, or I'd probably go out and buy both the system and kit.
    • I think this will go farther than being just a toy. As the article mentions, it should be very easy to port Linux applications to the PS2. As for the problem of not being able to burn the programs to a CD, I would assume that if you ripped some of the boot code off the DVD you could burn that on a CD and using the network card, you could transfer the files to your notebook or desktop and burn them from there and I think the PS2 would read them. I am glad that some company has finally gotten the guts to release a full open source operating system for their game console. I hope that other companies follow in Sony's footsteps, although, I doubt Micro$oft will...
  • I have been looking for a more open game console. I couldn't justify JUST games. I'd like to do a bit more.... Hurray!
    • > I have been looking for a more open game console

      Well the most open console available is Korea's GamePark 32. Some good info can be found at Lik-Sang [lik-sang.com] and also dev'rs [devrs.com].

      The console basically uses standard flash media for cartridges and plays back mp3s, has the same resolution as a SNES, etc.
  • going to be any easier to code for the Linux platform than the other consoles?
  • As cool as this is, I fail to see it providing any significant advantages. Most people will stick with their trusty desktop and not bother forking out. I on the other hand, am due for a pay rise soon.....
    • Go read the article again - it's for people who want to play with some linux apps on PS2 or learn to develop applications or games for PS-2.

      You can't release games with it since a burned CD-R/DVD-R won't be able to be read by any PS-2 machine, but you can learn how to write games on it and maybe get hired as a PS-2 programmer..
  • I'm sure there's tons of cool things you can do with Linux on a PS2, but why bother with games?

    It would make ports real easy to do, but you'd be missing the potential of the console.

    Anyone got any idea of what you'd lose, performance wise, for say a raw game vs a linux based game on a PS2?
    • "Bother" running games?

      Simple awnser: for the money.
      With this kit a small operation can start creating a game, get far enough to prove to investors that they have a good product underway, get more money, get the real develloper kit, finish the game, release the game, get rich.
      • With this kit a small operation can start creating a game, get far enough to prove to investors that they have a good product underway, get more money, get the real develloper kit, finish the game, release the game, get rich.

        Hey, I didn't notice it was that easy. Seriously though I guess the amount of small teams getting money for their development through programming a pre-version with this kit which they couldn't have gotten writing a pre-version on just any platform is zero.
        Or am I wrong in my impression of what this ps2gl thing is - an opengl version that is layered ontop of ps2 specific graphics functionality? So what you do is show off your opengl skills not your ps2 skills. And you could do that just as well on a pc. No console required.
        • And you could do that just as well on a pc. No console required.

          Touché
          But I rarely play on a computer, I'm a console kinda guy...that had not even ocurred to me.

          On the plus side for my idea (despite your cynical demolition of it): beta testing for consoles is much easier for consoles, you don't need to do compatibility testing for all the possible video/sound card, OSs, etc. So that's a plus for my utopic small operation. (I want the small operations to exist, I want mre original games, less cookie-cutter crap-o-rama...you may sayayyyyayayy I'm a dreamer...)
          :)
  • Just imagine, if you will, the ramifications of a major console with Linux at it's heart. Although it's not the default OS on any big console it's probably just a matter of time.

    Instead of constantly trying to catch up with Windoze in supporting games, imagine if there was such a console producing masses of software which would be ready to spill out in quick porting efforts.

    I have the sneaking feeling it's not too far off. Gotta give Mr. Gates credit, he's seen it coming (xbox).

  • Not just any Blizzard developer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geekd ( 14774 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @04:57PM (#3224407) Homepage
    The Blizzard developer quoted in the article is non other than Sam Lantinga, of Loki and SDL fame.

    In my very limited email correspondance with Sam, he proves to be a great guy. SDL is an awesome development API, and he already ported it to the Playstaion 2 Linux.

  • The PS2 is a gaming box already, why limit its potential by adding the overhead of Linux? The whole point of consoles is to deliver maximum performance with a stable platform.

    While it was cool playing Doom on Dreamcast Linux, this is definitely for personal amusement and not for "real" gaming. Commercial developers won't touch it, and the inability to produce games on removable media will limit the usefulness of the PS2 as a homebrew game maker. In short, this entire kit is a waste of time.

    • Re:Not too useful (Score:5, Funny)

      by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:06PM (#3224476) Homepage Journal
      this is definitely for personal amusement and not for "real" gaming.

      Yeah, when I play games, personnal amusement is the farthest thing from my mind! ;-)

    • Actually, there wouldn't be a tremendous amount of overhead. If you were to write a game based on Linux for the PS2, it would most likely run in single user mode, so all you would be running is the C library, SDL, and the drivers. Nothing would be running in the background, and you would have a tremendous amount of development tools available to you on your desktop machine. People forget that Linux is really just a kernel, and that you can use just the pieces that you need. A kernel with only the drivers for the Playstation devices would be small and efficient. If Sony were to support Linux as the standard OS for the next Playstation, they wouldn't need to put so much effort into a development environment, and they would have a much larger base of potential developers than with a proprietary OS. Easy development with familiar tools is Microsoft's advantage with the XBox.
    • In short, this entire kit is a waste of time.

      Says who? You? Well then its a waste of time to you. Last time I checked, I do not have any of the tools I need to develop games and/or applications for my PS2. In fact, I'm looking through all of my directories right now and GCC doesn't seem to support the PS2. So no, it is not a waste of time. I think it'd be kind of fun to try and write my stuff to run on my PS2. As far as limiting the usefulness of a "homebrew game maker" seems to me anyone with the Linux kit would be able to play the games. You are, afterall, getting a network adapter with it. The kit isn't so that I can go off and make a fortune as a game designer. Its so I can do something off the wall with my PS2. It also means I'll probably hold on to the hardware for longer now because I can do something "else" with it.

  • PC replacement? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ekephart ( 256467 )
    If one has a PS2 and this Linux distro, why would one even need a computer at all. Set the cable modem next to the monitor/television and you are set. I don't follow Windows emulators but, if also there were a very good one out there I could watch the Simpsons and play Civ3 during commercials, without even having to SPIN THE CHAIR. This is truly beautiful. :,)

    • Re:PC replacement? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Indras ( 515472 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:02PM (#3224451)
      I could watch the Simpsons and play Civ3 during commercials, without even having to SPIN THE CHAIR. This is truly beautiful. :,)

      You truly are the pinnacle of the information age.
    • Get a KVM switch and you could turn in the swivel chair for a recliner... Get one like Homer invented on the Simpson's, and you wouldn't even have to leave the room... Ever.

    • Re:PC replacement? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by CMiYC ( 6473 )
      Guess you didn't read the article. But that is not surprising. If you think about it, the PS2 makes a pretty limited general purpose computer. It features very little upgradibility and limited general computing power. As I recall, it only has 32megs of system RAM. That's fine for running a couple of applications, but nothing memory intensive.
  • How about running a 3d modeling program on there. The ps2 has a extremly decent video system. Could that be used to render stuff faster?
    • The video system DOES NOT do the final output renderings. That is what a CPU does. The video system displays a "preview" of what your rendered scene will look like.

      True, the previews/hardware have gotten better over the years to where you can see textures/bump mapping/some lighting in the scene without rendering, but it is a far cry from a nice software rendered scene.

      The only way to speed rendering is to use more CPUs not video cards.


      Will Render For Food!
  • One paragraph that jumped out at me:

    Those interested in buying and playing around with the PS2 Linux kit should be aware of some things before getting it: Access to the PS2's DVD drive is restricted so that only official PlayStation discs can be read; and CD-Rs and DVD-R discs won't work in the drive. However, the USB ports on the PS2 are standard, so some USB external CD and DVD drive models that are supported under Linux could be used with this kit.


    Too bad it can't even read CD-Rs, though I suppose there's probably a mod [modchip.com] that would let you do that.

  • Port wars (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 )
    So that's the plan!

    The evil Xbox's main attraction to devellopers is the fact that you can make games that will be a breeze to port back and forth from the PC to that console and vice versa.

    Sony fights back with something that makes it as easy to port to and from linux and the PS2!

    Wouldn't it be nice if game companies would sell their games along with a dumbed-down linux distro now? With instructions on how to make a partition on your windows formatted machine so "normal" users could cross over...

    that's it...I'm starting a game company! ;-)
    • hmmm if i was gonna compare which has more value (porting ease vs linux or windows), there is one clear cut choice as too which path is more profitable. Probably close to 90% (arbitrary stat, just a guess here) of home PC users use Windows, and even a *bunch* of Linux users have dual boot just for the purpose of gaming.

      Don't get me wrong, i only choose to boot windows when i plan on gaming, and would love to see more games that are good on Linux... but frankly i cant see this as a major factor in why Sony put out this Linux kit.

      Should be some cool home brewed developments come out of it though...gonna be kinda fun to watch how this shapes up

    • Actually porting from Xbox to PC is usually harder, as you have many configurations to worry about. Developers use the features Xbox has (gf3) and a corresponding PC would most certainly need these same features. When porting from PC to Xbox, there comes a question about the 64mb memory size.

      So sure, it's easy to get started with xbox, but porting is always another issue.
  • Well so far the Sony heads have said they need the next PS to be 1000X the power of todays and since it will be impossible to wait for hardware to catch up they need distributed computing to help, yet they cant provide details, probably because they dont know ...?

    What better way to develop the next PS3 then get a bunch of open source free for all coders, developers, and testers to get it done first so they can take it or know where to start, all the while making $199.99 a pop.

    Hopefully someone will make an ISO of the CD and tell people how to use their existing Keyboard, mice, and HD to set it up without ponying up $200 clams.
    • The 200$ probably bearly covers the hardware. I mean, it's a 40 gig HD, keyboard, mouse, ethernet adaptor and video adaptor. I estimate that the actual linux distribution comes around 50 bucks, which is pretty cheap for a boxed distro.
    • So instead you are going to buy your own mouse, keyboard, harddrive, network adapter, and video adapter resulting in saving money? Also, to use a burned copy of the CD you're going to need a modchip so don't forget to factor that in. When its all said and done, you've done what? Saved your self $20? Oh wait, no, you cost yourself at least $20.

      This effort has nothing to do with the PS3. Its based on their GScube arch which is nothing like the current PS2's arch. So I'm kind of at a loss how anyone buying the kit is going to help Sony. For one thing, I find it hard to believe that they are making $200 a pop. They are probably making far less. They are using this as a public relations ploy. Make a little on the hardware they sell, but make a lot in the minds of the users.
      • Its based on their GScube arch which is nothing like the current PS2's arch.
        Only if consisting of multiple instances of the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer rendering subsystem in parallel is "nothing like" the PS2. Reading the first sentence of the second google hit [geek.com] supplies this clue. For free.

  • My main reason for getting it... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Blackwulf ( 34848 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:08PM (#3224488) Homepage
    A lot of people are saying it's not all that useful because it can't play DVD's in Linux and stuff...I want to get it because it allows you direct access to the PS2 graphics hardware and will give me some experience in programming console games. I would have killed to have gotten a Net Yaroze (for the original PlayStation) just to get to play around with it. With the Net Yaroze, you developed on a PC and uploaded about a meg and a half max through a paralell port. At least now I can develop on the box (through ethernet) and play my game right there, and then send it to other people with PS2 Linux.

    Would you want to make this your only Linux box? Not really. Make it a server? Nope, not really. Use it as a way to program PS2 games without paying the extraordinarily high Sony licensing fees? Yep. That's what I'm using it for.

    If I want to hack Linux, I'll just hack the linux PC I already own.
    • Use it as a way to program PS2 games without paying the extraordinarily high Sony licensing fees? Yep. That's what I'm using it for.

      According to the article, while it's possible to go to the metal with Linux, the major question I would ask is ... Linux APIs =? Native APIs.

      If so, the I would agree that this would be a fantastic way to get our feet wet.

      OTOH, it may not be so great since they "turn off" access to the DVD that are not "Official". So programming a cool game under Linux will limit the distribution of that game to ... you.

      Ahhhh ... the magic of /. and its effect ...


      • OTOH, it may not be so great since they "turn off" access to the DVD that are not "Official". So programming a cool game under Linux will limit the distribution of that game to ...
        you.


        Er, not really...

        one word: tarballs

        ice.
      • Uhm... the kit comes with a network adapter. NIC + broadband connection = distribution network. No need for discs, or licensing. Quite wonderful really.
      • So programming a cool game under Linux will limit the distribution of that game to ... you

        No because it comes with the network adapter. So I can send it to other people with the Linux Kit. Where's the fun in that you ask? Well, its fun because I didn't have to play the high license fee. If all you had to pay was $200 to develop for the PS2 and produce commerical games, don't you think companies would jump on that like mad?
      • According to the article, while it's possible to go to the metal with Linux, the major question I would ask is ... Linux APIs =? Native APIs.

        If I want to program in the Linux API, I can just use my Linux PC that I got here next to me. The Linux kit will offer direct access to the PS2 proprietary video and rendering engine, which is what I want to get my grubby little hands on.

        And everyone else mentioned the broadband adapter, so I won't do the whole "me too!" thing.

    • How easy would it be to port it to a 'native' PS2 game, one that could be sold commercially? Or if not sold, maybe Sony could distribute it for low cost to push sales and I could get some fame as a game developer that way.... any thoughts? I just don't want develop games that so few people could end up playing.

      • How easy would it be to port it to a 'native' PS2 game, one that could be sold commercially? Or if not sold, maybe Sony could distribute it for low cost to push sales and I could get some fame as a game developer that way.... any thoughts? I just don't want develop games that so few people could end up playing.

        I believe (key word, don't quote me on this) that Sony won't be looking to distribute your work unless you pay the high licensing fee. The PS2 Linux game platform is for HOBBYISTS, who want to get their feet wet. I'm not sure how "famous" you'd get developing games using the PS2 Linux Kit. Only people with the Linux Kit would be able to play your games. I'm personally using it more as a learning experience and a resume builder. (Hey look, I can use the PS2GL! Hire me!)
  • Not an awful price for the hardware, but not great, for $200, you get
    • Linux (for PlayStation 2) version 1.0 software
    • Monitor Cable Adaptor (for PlayStation 2)
    • Internal Hard Disc Drive (40 GB) (for PlayStation 2)
    • Network Adaptor (Ethernet) (for PlayStation 2)[10/100 Base-T]
    • USB Keyboard & USB Mouse (for PlayStation 2)

    Here ya go! [playstation.com]
  • They had to lay off 85% of the testers due to them being under 18.

    Or is that another story?

    THL
    (erm, sorry?)
    • Never ceases to amaze me how many people just love to use the law when it suits them (Oh, say, anti-trust laws, or the copyright laws that give the GPL it's legal weight) but cast aside the ones that make just as much sense (like, say, child protection labour laws) when it doesn't suit them. No, wait. It did cease to amaze me a long time ago. I live in fear of the day when the unwashed masses suddenly realize that they outnumber the legal authorities.
  • If you really want one of these it might not hurt to pre-order it on Sony's site [playstation.com]!

    They do have an interesting warning on there. The Linux kit's hard drive will not work with other games. So you'll have to buy a second hard drive for Final Fantasy 11 and swap them out!
  • Beowulf'ed PS2s ...

    I guess its Kernel-Hackin' time ...

  • SLASHDOT + PS2 + LINUX = oreillynet.com slashdotted

    The google cache of the site is here [google.com]

    Now...who can honestly say they are not in love with and sexually attracted to google!!! :-)
  • Anyone know if their is anything like this in the works for the PS2. I know their are a few for the dreamcast.......

  • Already /. More on This at ...... (Score:3, Informative)

    by LuxuryYacht ( 229372 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:28PM (#3224638) Homepage
    Linux for Playstation 2 Community [playstation2-linux.com]

    Pre-Order Linux for PS-2 [playstation.com]

    • The bout between Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft with their video game consoles could become even more heated when Linux enters the fray this spring. Sony will sell online the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Release 1.0 in the U.S. in May 2002. (A European version will come out that month, too, and the Japanese version earlier in April.)

      <script></script>
      This kit will include a Linux distribution on DVD that runs on the PS2 hardware, additional software, documentation, a 40GB hard drive, an Ethernet adapter, a USB mouse, a USB keyboard, and a computer monitor cable. The package will cost $200. (The PlayStation 2 is sold separately, though.)

      While Linux has been brought to other consoles (such as the SEGA Dreamcast) by hobbyist programmers in the Linux community, this is the first distribution officially released, sold, and supported by a major hardware manufacturer for its game console. Since the demonstration of the kit in January this year at LinuxWorld, over four thousand people have registered at the Linux for PlayStation 2 Community Web site. The site offers discussion forums and file space to help Linux PS2 developers coordinate with one another on projects.

      Besides the sheer geek thrill of being able to do it, there's a practical reason for running Linux on a PlayStation 2. A lot of people expressing interest in this kit are hobbyists looking to gain experience in developing for a major game console. The Linux PS2 distribution makes home-brew game programming and experimentation on the PS2 platform affordable for such individuals. The only other alternative is to become a professional, licensed developer and lease a PS2 development kit from Sony--and the professional license and development kit cost many thousands of dollars.

      [Items in the Release 1.0 kit.]
      The items that come with the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" Release 1.0 kit.
      (Almost) Full access to the PS2's capabilities

      The PlayStation 2-specific libraries will be released under the LGPL; there are no proprietary licenses involved. Sony's distribution of Linux is based on Kondara Linux, which in turn is based on Red Hat Linux. The documentation with this kit will give all the same information about the PS2 hardware that Sony provides its licensed game developers (but it won't give access to the system's anti-piracy mechanisms). This will include full details on the PS2's proprietary Emotion Engine core instruction set, the Graphic Synthesizer, and the Vector Processing Units. "The idea was to simply provide a functional and complete distribution of Linux on the PlayStation 2, while also giving access to the PlayStation 2's unique hardware," says Sarah Ewen, who works for Sony as one of its Linux engineers responsible for supporting the kit.

      Related Reading
      [Physics for Game Developers]

      Physics for Game Developers
      By David M. Bourg
      Table of Contents
      Index
      Author's Article
      Sample Chapter

      Those interested in buying and playing around with the PS2 Linux kit should be aware of some things before getting it: Access to the PS2's DVD drive is restricted so that only official PlayStation discs can be read; and CD-Rs and DVD-R discs won't work in the drive. However, the USB ports on the PS2 are standard, so some USB external CD and DVD drive models that are supported under Linux could be used with this kit.

      In terms of programming, the following graphics libraries are provided: libSDL (a fast, 2D graphics library), mesa, and ps2gl (a simplified GL clone, which makes use of the PlayStation 2's hardware). Ewen says, with these tools and enough effort on a programmer's part, it is possible to create games with graphics that are comparable to those of commercial PS2 games: "So the limitations really are few. You have almost unfettered access to the [graphics] hardware. There is nothing stopping programmers from coding 'right to the metal' using the Linux kit."

      As for the portability of code from Linux on a PC system to the PS2, most applications written on a PC will compile on the PlayStation 2 with little or no modification. The significant difference is having to pass the --host option to the configure script. The kit supports languages typical to a Linux distribution, like C, C++, Perl, Python, Ruby, and Tcl. The only one missing is Java, although Kaffe has been ported by others in the Linux PS2 community.

      "Porting between Linux on the PC and Linux on the PS2 is very easy. Both the PC and PS2 use the same endianness, the same word sizes, et cetera," says Sam Lantinga, a software engineer at Blizzard Entertainment (makers of the Diablo and Warcraft game franchises). With the kit, he ported to the PS2 his Simple DirectMedia Layer, a cross-platform library he created for handling access to graphics and sound, that is mainly used for helping to develop Linux games. "The only kind of code that I can think of that wouldn't run on the PS2, if it ran on a PC, would be either very memory-intensive applications or applications like WINE that require an x86 CPU core."

      [Screen shot...click for full-size view.]
      X Windows running on the PlayStation 2 with the "Linux (for PlayStation 2)" kit. (Click for full-size view.)
      Open source, open possibilities over the competition?

      For Sony, there is no plan to make this kit a significant revenue source. The company won't be advertising it through the usual methods since it doesn't want to confuse consumers who have no interest in Linux or programming. "We're definitely not trying to enter the desktop PC market [with the Linux PS2 kit]," says Ewen, who points out that Sony already sells its own brand of PCs.

      Regardless, there could be benefits for the company if the PS2 is seen as more than just a game console. Lantinga predicts that this kit, with its inclusion of an Ethernet adapter and hard drive, could spur the development of online applications and services, things that could give the PS2 platform an edge over Microsoft's Xbox. "Linux is the natural choice for Sony to leverage the vast amount of non-Microsoft expertise available around the world," says Lantinga.

      Then there's the advantage for Sony that more games will inevitably appear for the PS2, thanks to this kit. Lantinga easily ported Maelstrom to the PlayStation 2 and played it with the console's game controllers on a television set. "That was very cool. Any other 2D game [made with Simple DirectMedia Layer] that uses 640x480 or lower video resolution should run just fine on the PS2," he says. "So I expect that when the Linux kit ships in the U.S., there will be a number of games almost immediately available for it. It should be fun."

      Howard Wen is a freelance writer who has contributed frequently to O'Reilly Network, and written for Salon.com, Playboy.com and Wired, among others.
  • Ok, so you can now buy and run linux on your PS2, but seriously, why? What is the point of doing this? Are you able to do something above and beyond what you could do on your standard linux workstation?
    • Ok, so you can now buy and run linux on your PS2, but seriously, why? What is the point of doing this?
      It's kind of a Zen thing: if you have to ask, you won't understand the answer.
    • Read the article, it gives the #1 reason. It gives people a chance to program for a console. Sure its going to be very much like programming for Linux on a PC, but not exactly alike. There is an inherent challenge in dealing with the limitations of a console meanwhile exploiting its strengths.

  • A Preview of the Potential Evils of CBDTPA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:34PM (#3224700)
    From the FAQ on the playstation2-linux.com page:

    The PlayStation 2 contains a subsystem for operating peripherals and audio including the SPU2 (Sound Processing Unit), the IOP, the HDD, the DVD drive, controllers, memory cards, USB and other peripherals. The hardware specification for these units is not disclosed. The Runtime Environment provided on DISC 1 includes binary software device drivers for controlling these hardware units. Source code for the Runtime Environment is proprietary and will not be disclosed. However, DISC 2 contains Linux device drivers (with source code) which show how to access all these devices through the Runtime Environment interface. This gives the developer access to the functionality of all the devices but not the complete hardware specification.

    If CBDTPA passes, this is precisely the kind of scenario we'd have on all PC hardware. Sure, you could still use Linux with it, but you'll have to use proprietary binary drivers to access any I/O device. Replace "Runtime Environment" in the above paragraph with "government certified anti-copying device" and you've got a near perfect preview of CBDTPA. And of course, note that "hardware specifications are not disclosed." In other words, if you reverse engineer a device.. say a USB scanner.. to write a Linux driver, you'd be in violation of the proposed law. Only the manufacturer would be able to legally provide the drivers to access their hardware. And we all know the wonderful track record of PC hardware manufacturers in supporting alternative operating systems. I for one, will not support any company who produces proprietary hardware in the name of "anti-piracy."

  • Warning: PS2 Linux insulates a lot from the system (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ryu2 ( 89645 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:35PM (#3224708) Homepage Journal
    First off, you must boot off of Sony's bootloader disc. The code on the bootloader, which runs before the kernel gets loaded, is basically a NT-like hardware abstraction layer that prevents you from getting direct register-level access to the GS (graphics/sound coprocessor) chip, the DVD CSS mechanism on the DVD-ROM (so no CSS-supported DVD player possible in Linux), memory card (Linux uses a special memory card format different than normal Playstation games, probably to prevent you from getting at and modifying saved game data), and possibly others as well.

    The VGA box is only supported under Linux as well -- a shame, as Dreamcast has a VGA box which is actually supported by most of its commercial titles, and really makes them look better.

  • Shades of Coleco Adam? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 3vi1 ( 544505 )
    Don't get me wrong, this is a really cool 'toy'. That's no flame to Linux, just what I expect from experience:

    Does anyone remember the Coleco Adam module?

    Do you remember the Intellivision ECS module?

    Do you remember the Atari 2600 Piggyback module?

    Remember Atari 2600 BASIC?

    I do... and trust me: They were all cool 'toys'. I sincerely doubt that much anything useful can be done with this kit, as long as the stipulation remains that you must have the kit to run anything created with it.

    I really like SDL. I've submitted bug fixes for mouse and sound issues in the past, and Sam always responded quickly and enthusiastically. SDL really makes 2D programming easy. We'll have to see how good of an OpenGL implementation the kit has before we can venture out of the 2D world. At least Atani or I can now port Bliss32 [retrogames.com] to it. :)

    I do like the 40GB HD though - beats the hell out of the 8GB one in my X-Box. Can I start hoping against hope that MS lets us do the same thing with our X-Box's... er... legally? :)

    If any kids are out there, thinking about getting into programming via this module, I would warn you off that path. This is just Linux for the PS2 - it's not a 'Games Creation Kit'. I can't see how it would be any easier to learn programming with this kit than on a real PC.

    -J

    • Yaroze (Score:1)

      by 3vi1 ( 544505 )
      I forgot to mention one (well probably more, if you count the Oddysey 2, that Astrocade module, and some really obscure stuff): Yaroze.

      I played around with Yaroze on the original PS1. It was indeed cool.

      But (there's always a but)... it really wasn't good for much of anything beyond making little demo's or really simple games. I can't blame Sony: you can't expect to buy a *real* developers kit for the price of Yaroze.

      The sad thing is that I like the Yaroze concept *more* than PS2 Linux, because at least it was a tool directly concentrated on one thing: programming. This PS2 Linux is all over the map when you think about running other Linux apps.

      I don't know how useful having a whole OS on the console would be unless you're a grandma who only needs a PC for occasional e-mailing.... and how many grandma's have their own PS2's?

      Maybe it's just me...
    • Could someone mod me [-5, dumbass w/broken link]? :)

      It should have been: Bliss32 [retrogames.com].

      Sorry about that!

  • already exists. In 1999, Hasbro, fresh from it's purchase of the Atari trademarks and intellectual property, opened up the Atari Jaguar from all patents, copyrights, and similar materials.

    Yes folks, a totally public domain game console.

    You can even get the code to produce your own custom chips from the Jaguar, called Tom and Jerry.

    But, what's the point? Open source does not make it excellent source. PS2 having Linux does not make it a monster. It's just another feature for the PS2 to exploit.

  • PS2 Linux is *not* for mainstream (Score:4, Interesting)

    by sph ( 35491 ) on Monday March 25, 2002 @05:37PM (#3224723)
    Most people seem to forget the target audience of the PS2 Linux. It's *not* for desktop or server use, definitely not for average gamer or even typical Linux hacker. It's not for mainstream in any form, if it was it would be available outside of the net as well. It won't be very supported officially, it's supposed to be community-supported. PS2-games and DVDs won't work in Linux. Software made on PS2 Linux can't be run on another PS2 without Linux. Bootable CD/DVDs can't be burned even on PC, because PS2 won't boot from burned discs (at least without hardware mods).

    It's for people who already know Linux and possibly programming, and want to play with PS2 hardware, try what it's really made of. Documentation and development tools for processor, vector units and graphics synth are included. And I'm going to get it, because I'm very interested in that very nice piece of hardware.

    I think it's quite a smart move from Sony. PS2 has always been criticized as being a very difficult platform to develop to. PS2 Linux will make it possible for a couple of thousand (no, it won't sell much more) hobbyists, and even game developers without previous PS2 experience, to familiarize themselves with PS2 hardware. It won't brew a large community of home-made PS2 games, but it may give a good start for a few of PS2 coders.

    • The other posts I'm reading say that you'll be denied this low-level hardware access you speak of.

      So which is it?

      Shielded by a HAL, or knee-deep in the emotion engine (tm)??
  • If we can have the ability to plug video cards into TVs (which I think this ability already exists, I'm thinking S-Video is probably the easiest way, I'm just not sure if any video cards have S-Video adapters, All-in-Wonder maybe?) then it seems like having a PC attached to the TV is pretty cool. Then you can play all your favourite PC games (downloaded from Kazaa or paid for). PS/2 games are too expensive and tough to copy right now. And once they are copyable, someone will probably have an emulator going for Linux anyways. It just seems to me that a PC is a better all-round solution to all of this. The main reason I think, is that I can keep plaing my Windows games (NHL2002, DiabloII, etc...) instead of having to fork over more money for games that will only run on PS/2.
  • Think about it, how many PS2 are out there? This is a potentially awesome opportunity for someone to produce something very cool and very successful. Follow me on this, picture the PS2 as Sony's answer to Apples Digital Media Hub. You can hook your digital cam (or memory stick of course) to the thing and look at and edit pictures on your PS2 via USB/FireWire. Who needs a internet appliance. Just use your PS2 to take those pictures you took and email it to your buddies. Or have it setup a web page to share with your buddies. Use your PS2 to demo albums or DVD's or games and then order them online.

    All of the above would be possible without the user having to have a hd, so you'd have access to the entire population of PS2 users. If Sony can properly market the hd (or ship PS3 with one), then you start being able to do things like editing your movies via FireWire (of course burning them onto DVD's would be an area of contention with Sony, but I'm sure they'll think of some proprietary solution ;)

    People are forgetting that just because the current incarnation of LinuxPS2 is restricted, it doesn't mean that they can't open it up more if the apps being developed would benifit them. Also keep in mind that they can come with a distro that boots from the cd/dvd and uses the memory card as swap space (i.e. a small tight app deployment distro). This is even easier if they decide to use larger capacity memory cards (or switch over to the memory stick).

    This seems to me an exciting and rare opportunity to A) get in early on a "new" platform (i.e. hardware+software) B) have that platform have a huge potential audience right off the bat (vs praying that this new platform has more than a few hundred users ala Be).

    Gentlemen, start your editors ....
  • Why make games on the PS2 when you can play them - aka - am I the only fool who wants this so I can play MAME arcade games in my living room? Talk about an adolescent dream being realized here....
  • With the USB ports working under Linux and a decent MPEG decoder optimized for the PS2 graphics hardware, it would be great to watch digital TV with one of those Haupauge USB DVB receivers. The drivers for them are coming along (no thanks to Haupauge) and it should be possible to adapt mplayer or xine for playback. Then you would have a nice STB which isn't as noisy as a PC. Get Java running and even MHP might be possible.
    Even if it doesn't work with the USB receivers you could still stream it to your living room and put your PC into the basement.
  • If the press release is accurate we can play nintendo games on this thing....


    I wonder what nintendo has to say about it???

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • On my widescreen TV?

    I'd buy that for a dollar. Or even two hundred dollars.

  • This is great. I hope I'll be able to run a Half-Life server on a PS2. That would be a lot cheaper than buying a whole new computer. Also, Epic Games has a habit of releasing Linux versions of their Unreal games. They've already said that they're going to release a dedicated server for Linux, with a possible client depending on Linux ubiquity. Plus, UT 2003 is quite scalable so we'll be able to play it, no matter how fast the PS2 is. We could also network several PS2's together to create a super-computer that plays UT 2003. For the price of a computer I could network at least 4 PS2s together. More, if the price goes down.
  • I tried out PS2 Linux in Game Developer's Conference last week. Here are two points that are probably already addressed by other posts:
    1. The PS2 only has 32 Megs of RAM, so when you really want to use it as a general PC, it is VERY slow. I was running WindowMaker, a MP3 player (I think it was XMMS), and xpdf to read the documentation. The mouse and xpdf was crawling whenever I click on the next page button.
    2. Although you cannot boot from a custom DVD, you can recompile the kernel and store it on the memory card.
  • It really never ceases to amaze me how people talk about the PS2 Linux kit as if it's the only way they'll ever get a chance to develop for a real console.

    Well, for about $120 worth of hardware (and that includes the console itself, which is still capable of playing tons of great games) you can buy yourself a "Dreamcast devel kit", complete with a BSD licensed toolkit [allusion.net] (see SourceForge link), an active hobbyist community [dreamcast.info], etc. Oh and did I mention, unfettered access to the vast majority of the hardware and to-the-metal performance? How about the ability to burn a CD of your game for anyone who owns a Dreamcast to play it?

    Of course, I'm a bit biased, being in charge of the development of said software kit. ;-) So for fairness, I'll also mention the DC Linux [sf.net] port to the Dreamcast, also with a decent amount of hardware and lib support now.

    I'm interested in getting a PS2 Linux kit too, but I just want people to be aware that there are other ways as well.
  • "Those interested in buying and playing around with the PS2 Linux kit should be aware of some things before getting it: Access to the PS2's DVD drive is restricted so that only official PlayStation discs can be read; and CD-Rs and DVD-R discs won't work in the drive. However, the USB ports on the PS2 are standard, so some USB external CD and DVD drive models that are supported under Linux could be used with this kit."

    Check this, use a sufficiently fast USB/Firewire DVD/IDE adapter(Supported under linux of course), boot to Linux, throw an import or "backup" in there and try to execute code, would it work?
  • The screen shot was taken on April 29...
    I guess it is around one year old, so, hopefully, loads of progress have been made (unless this is not "news" but only "stuff that could matter" ;-)
  • XMMS and MAME. That's what I'm interested in. I'd have, essentially, a set-top MP3 player and a small arcade machine in the living room (ie. not locked away on a PC in the study).

    The one thing that's bothering me is the display output - can I connect this to a standard PAL TV (28", not widescreen) and expect to see anything? The article mentions running Maelstrom at 640x480 - would that be it then? 640x480?

    Cheers,
    Ian

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