Linux Standard Base 1.1

Staili writes: "Zdnet is reporting that The Free Standards Group released version 1.1 of the Linux Standard Base (LSB) as well as the first version of the Linux Internationalization Initiative standard to deal with Linux language barriers."

posix?

[Pharmboy]

Pardon me, as someone who uses linux, but is not a guru...isn't this the whole idea of "posix compatible"? seems redundant to me.

Thats all well and good

[steve.m]

I see all the major players are involved too.

so, how many of the major distros are/will be compliant ?

when will I be able to buy a book on administing an LSB 1.1 system ?

Distros are in but...

[MosesJones]

Linus and Alan Cox aren't mentioned. Surely having the distros agreeing is one thing but if Linus and Alan change things within the kernel this would render the LSB pointless.

Windows manages to have some compatibility between 95/98/2000/XP because the control all of the OS, the distros don't control the kernel.

Interesting to see how often LSB has to be updated to keep up with the kernel.

Re:Distros are in but...

[smooc]

Linus and Alan Cox aren't mentioned. Surely having the distros agreeing is one thing but if Linus and Alan change things within the kernel this would render the LSB pointless.

You are forgetting that the Linux which to
which you are referring is actually GNU/Linux.
Linus and Alan have nothing to do with the
GNU part (ok, they have something to do with it but not in this particular case). The LSB doesn't describe the API of
the kernel; it describes for example how
files are being layed out across the filesystem

I think it's time...

[StarbuckZero]

For RedHat, MandrakeSoft, Lycoris (Redmond Linux), Xandros and any other distro leader out they're to get involved to make Linux a better place for the average user. It would be nice to be able to click on a ONE link to download a program/driver off the net and not have search though this list. I'm sorry but it's time for a change... It's hard for every day people install programs and It's a pain for developers to repackage there binaries over for each distro. If you have time people check out Fiorina: [com.com]
Linux not a threat to Microsoft on cnet. You'll it under January 30, 2002 but there Fiorina talks about how we are fighting Microsoft, but she saying what I been trying to tell my friends all this time.

We need to build a better desktop and stop bitching about Microsoft. We need to put our time into something better besides bitching about Microsoft because the only way we can beat them is to build something cleaner, faster, easier and better then what they have now. So MandrakeSoft, Lycoris and Xandros you want the to be the king of the desktop well you better to start looking that the LSB 1.1 because you are not going to get anywhere with your just putting the newest KDE, GNOME and X11 on a CD and calling it Linux 8.x. I can tell you one thing I had a friend that switch back to Windows because it was as hell to install programs and to get his hardware configure. I was helping him maintain his system, but when I got busy with doing work on the weekends trying to help my friend out on this website I couldn't be their to help him with his system. The sad thing is I'm very happy to see that he switch back to Windows, hell I been using Linux for 2 1/2 years( no duel booting for 1 1/2 year ) and been thinking about it myself. I been paying for games/software and supporting the companies out there but it's not doing any good if you got some open source bigots are going to warez sites or newgrounds for close source software for Linux that's not GPL or FREE. Flame or mod me down if you like, I'm just saying what's on my mind. I'm a programmer for a CBT company and I love programming, but I got bills to pay. In the end it's all about money and what's the next big thing.

Re:Package format

[Alan]

IIRC .deb doesn't have some of the nice error checking that rpm has, like signing. Also compare files on a system to the originals in an .deb to check for tainted files (though while looking I see that debsums(1) might do the trick.

Other problems is the PITA it is to do an non-interactive install of debs. One of the biggest bitches I hear about debian is that when doing an initial install, and you've gotten to the part where packages are installing it goes something like this:

*install*
*install*
*install*
*ask question via debconf*
*install*
*install*
*ask another question*
*install*
*install*
*install*
*ask same question again*
*install*
*install*
etc...

Also .deb's inadequate logging is mentioned, as well as keeping the install messages somewhere, or keeping previous versions of a package (what happens when you find out that libfoo is completely b0rked in the latest version, and have to run around searching for a mirror site that hasn't been updated yet. This generally only happens in unstable, but it's still a PITA :)

There were a couple of other features that .deb didn't have, but I don't recall them right now.

Some references and info is here [debianplanet.org] though that's a lot more pro-deb than discussing this exact issue, but there's good info there.

Oh, and before you start flaming, I'm a long time debian user :)

Re:LSB 1.1....great....now someone...

[AmirS]

Everyone is missing a big point that the .deb package format has many more features than .rpm. I'm not saying this to start a flamewar, but .debs have more advanced dependancy information such as depends, suggests, conflicts, replaces, provides etc, many scripts to run pre/post install, the scripts look after package config files well, also installation ordering, smooth upgrades between different versions of the same package etc. etc.

I would not not want to take a step back by switching to .rpms (unless RedHat or Connectiva hack in all these extra features, which would make them incompatible anyway and need everyone to upgrade so what's the point?)

Re:Implies not much about ".deb"

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Hmm....how about....apt-rpm??? The things behind dpkg and all of that sure, they are nice, but how are they all that really different from RPM? I agree that I may not be totally clued in about all aspects of apt, dpkg and all of the other stuff Debian uses, but to say that it's so tied to a packaging format??? Debian is no more tied to it then Redhat is tied to RPM. If they are, then the Debian project made a major mistake! I agree alien can assist in installing RPM's on debian, but will alien, dpkg and the rest of the debian stuff scan for dependency with in the RPM? Vice versa? Also, what's with Debian losing all of these people? Developers are leaving left and right. Also, Redhat, Mandrake SUSE and several others have gotten SEVERAL releases out since Debian released Potato. I am not saying that what they are trying to do isn't noble or right, but rock stable systems are hard to do. Don't get me wrong, I like Debian, and I like the fact that it it does try to do the right thing and the technically right thing as well, but sometimes their approach, while good, adds extra time. Time that, in my opinion, they don't have to waste. Maybe now is the time for Debian to actually form a company or form a different way of making the decisions instead of democracy. Maybe they need to modify the DFSG to be more lienient? I don't know, but there has to be someone who is going to draw a line in the sand and get the volunteers in action and get Woody released (and with a 2.4 kernel as well...). In the future, Debian may die, but the project will have donated alot of stuff to the community that can be used to advance Linux as a whole. Personally, I would like to see everyone unite so Linux can move forward without critics panning it.

LSB is a good thing and their shuld be equal input from everyone. But someone needs to push for adaptation. PHB's and Joe Sixpacks like hearing and seeing commercials like Mandrake Linux is compliant (it isn't but) with the LSB which means no matter where you buy or download your software it will work! I think the LSB folks need someone (besides Caldera or other only Linux companies.....a company with money) like IBM to put up money for a prize. The prize could be x amount of dollars go to the distro who fully complies with the LSB first. Y amount could go to the distro who is second and so on and so on. Everyone would bite, even Debian.