Michael Robertson Interview about Lindows 384
unclegus writes "I ran across this article talking about Michael Roberston and Lindows. Says a "Sneak Preview" will be available in a few weeks. Release 1.0 will be $100 for single user ..." Dan Gillmor, the author of it, has said that it appears to be the real thing - I'll be interested in getting my hands on it.
Key Words at End of Article (Score:5, Insightful)
Choice is a question... (Score:2, Interesting)
That's true, and that makes sense. However, consider Microsoft making another version of Windows. Sure, now we have another Windows we can use.... but there are factors other than the availability of a new product or piece of software that affect the amount of "choice" we really have. Microsoft affects user's choice by brute force. It's not just Microsoft though... it's a common practice in the software industry. So who's to say whether this Lindows company will provide us more "choice"? In the end, they are. Also consider that Microsoft can easily break Lindows compatibility with later versions of Office and what not. They have the upper hand in that battle (bar the U.S. government's hand in the matter). I'm not saying this will not be a good thing.... just stating some thoughts, and I welcome your thoughts/counterthoughts.
Don't bag it before you've tried it (Score:3, Insightful)
Furthermore, there's no reason why this can't work very well. I have a nifty little program from Codeweavers called Crossover, the 1.01 version of which allows me to run Quicktime, Shockwave, Ipix, QTVR, and a bunch of other Win32 web browser plugins under Galeon (or KDE, or Skipstone, or Moz if you like web browsers to run slowly on your Athlon). The plugins work seamlessly, and running Quicktime on its own works reasonably well (one bug with minimisation seems to be the only real sticking point).
So yeah, Codeweavers can allow me to run a selection of Windows web browser lugins under Linux.
Also, Transgaming can allow me to run Alice, Tony Hawk, Return to Castle Wolfenstein (single or Multi), Sacrifice and a much of other selected Windows games under Linux
If the above two are possible, I see no reason why Lindows won't be able to make MS Office and Quicken run under Wine either. They already work 98% functionality with Wine and a lot of patience. With a cute app to remove the need to patience, and some money into going the last mile of COM and the other missing pieces, I see no reason why Lindows won't be:
a) Able to deliver what it promises
b) Worth it. Maybe....
* When that hundred buncks was *Australian* I thought it was reasonable, but they mean $US - ouch. $40-50 US would be more like it.
* I already have a Linux distribution. I want Lindows if its good. I am not going to fucking well install another OS to run it. Make Lindows an app for God's sake.
Interdev under Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Interdev under Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft coddles you, and while i'm not saying that is a bad thing, it does make you that much more dependent on them.
I used to get paid to write ASP pages. I use to use interdev, and the whole VStudio. Now I write my pages in Java, I use Eclipse, and I don't have to worry about nimda. Tomarrow, I'll be able to do the same on Lindows
Who carez (Score:2)
It's however sad to see still people think by writing ASP pages you seem to have an above average risk to catch all kinds of silly virusses: server/internet development isn't easy sometimes and you need knowledge to write and setup solid systems. That's true on all platforms.
I only use interdev for the intellisense in asp code (no other editor has that, otherwise I'd have switched already).
Geeze people, so he likes InterDev... (Score:2)
Not: InterDev + ASP RULEZ!!!
This is a great point, especially for Win32 developers. If you can't run your Win32 development tools on Lindows, what can you run?
Lastly, I don't understand this IDE hate. What's wrong with using productive tools like integrated debuggers, color coding, code templates, etc. Are these extra features a major cause of sezuires? He finds them very useful, as do I. Why should he or anyone have to REVERT to notepad?
I can understand another editor like CodeWarrior, Emacs, etc., etc. but NOTEPAD???
Maybe we should all revert to assembler... no...no... HEX!!!
Re:Interdev under Linux (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Interdev under Linux (Score:2, Insightful)
you can write ASP scripts in any old text editor. I use Homesite on the PC, but I'm sure there are very nice text editors on Linux.
Just cuz your dev SERVER is microsoft, it doesn't mean you have to write your code from interdev!
-Dennis
I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's if this whole thing isn't vapor..
Re:... (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Is this legal? (Score:3, Informative)
IIRC the GPL says nothing about if your software "depends" on a GPL'd piece. If your software is integrated (ie. same code type deal) you are in trouble.
Re:Is this legal? (Score:5, Informative)
vmware does it (Score:4, Informative)
Is [creating a Linux kernel module] a GPL violation?
No. Linus has allowed binary-only modules into the kernel provided they communicate with the kernel using well-defined APIs. For instance, the vmware package includes a binary-only kernel module.
If Apple can't make BASH the MacOS X command line shell (apparently they asked, RMS said no, that would be a violation)
I don't see how it would be a violation under the "mere aggregation" clause of the GPL. [everything2.com]
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:vmware does it (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmm, funny. What is this
Keith Adams
(VMware engineer)
Re:Is this legal? (Score:3, Informative)
And later (if you clicked on the link) you can read:
"I just found out that a company has a copy of a GPL'ed program, and it costs money to get it. Aren't they violating the GPL by not making it available on the Internet?
No. The GPL does not require anyone to use the Internet for distribution. It also does not require anyone in particular to redistribute the program. And (outside of one special case), even if someone does decide to redistribute the program sometimes, the GPL doesn't say he has to distribute a copy to you in particular, or any other person in particular.
What the GPL requires is that he must have the freedom to distribute a copy to you if he wishes to. Once the copyright holder does distribute a copy program to someone, that someone can then redistribute the program to you, or to anyone else, as he sees fit."
So basically... there are several cases:
1) They do not break the GPL and make a true software without using or modifying libraries (could happen, depending on the licenses);
2) They break the GPL, and don't release the source code to anyone outside Lindows.com, so:
a) Without the sources, might be more difficult to know what library they used/modified;
3) The text that I copied and pasted from gnu.org applies. They can modify GPL and do NOT release the sources. "What the GPL requires is that he must have the freedom to distribute a copy to you if he wishes to". Just don't wish
Many more possible cases, but I just pointed a few more likely to happen. Anyway, the usual IANAL surrounds my comment
Re:Is this legal? (Score:2)
What is the difference between Caldera selling their version of Linux+Proprietary and Apple?? Red Hat and SuSE still sell their OS, although it is obstensibly "the cost of the CD".
Zealots are only good for burning others, or being burned.
~Hammy
Re:Is this legal? (Score:2)
However, I suspect that they will feed improvements back into the WINE project. Otherwise, they end up having to track and integrate WINE code constantly, which would be a major hassle.
bash on OSX (Score:2)
I really doubt that; do you have any references? More likely, Apple picked tcsh because of the BSD heritage.
Why in gods name (Score:2, Flamebait)
Hell now that courts have ruled its legal to resell throw a copy of Win98 under VMWare, at least there I can run all kinds of fun stuff.
At $100 a crack I cold buy a copy of whatever windows version I wanted, you mean to tell me I should buy this monstrosity because BillG isnt getting my money ?
This seems to me (I am a 30% Windows user 70% Linux user) te be the single stupidest approach for either system.
Re:Why in gods name (Score:2, Interesting)
That, as they say, is a very good question.
It isnt gooing to be ANYWHERE (Windows isnt stable you say, Ok , whatever but for running Windows apps youre going to tell me a hacked emulator is) near as stable for windows apps as windows,
A key stability issue with Windows is the kernel--if you run under a Linux or BSD/Mach/whatever kernel then a wobbly bit of software isn't going to cream it a la BSOD. And if the basic IP services and whatnot are on top of the thing like in UNIX then you don't have that "now reboot your computer" nonsense.
and the Linux stuff is going to get dragged down by bloating everything to the moon for compatibilty ???
You mean like with Gnome/KDE/Evolution Mozilla? Run mutt and lynx! :)
Re:Why in gods name (Score:2)
Re:Why in gods name (Score:2)
But this product isn't about you. It's about Joe who just opened an insurance company in Idaho.
It's not going to try to be linux. It's going to try to be 'Not Windows'. The buzz will carry around the bix world that there is a new linux that works 'just' like microsoft. And while they are wrong, companies start to venture away from thier unatable, yet reliable windows installs.
Does that make sence? Lindow target market is not hackers, crackers, UNIX Sys Admins, or Kernel development. I hope that clears it up a little you seemed angry about it.
Re:You do not see the alternatives (Score:2)
all major distributions? (Score:2)
Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, they said they are focusing on only 10 or so applications. They list Work, Excel, etc. But what about future revisions of these programs? I wonder if Ms would purposefully change them to break under Lindows, which Lindows would have to change to accomodate.
So will this become a perpetual 'chasing' game, trying to catch up to Microsoft?
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
honestly, $comment =~ s/Lindows/Wine/g; and you get a comment I've seen more or less verbatim on a dozen
To summarize for the future: Yes, MS will try to screw with people that threaten their monopoly in any way.
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:4, Informative)
First, your comment:
Yes, Microsoft will try to outrun you be rev'ing their software faster. It's called churn; they live and die by it. But they also do... much nastier things [ddj.com] to make your code stop working (like the Stealth Virus I just linked to). It all depends on how much of a threat they think you are.
Second, your
Slashdot does tell you when Editors are moderating your posts. In the Slashdot messaging system, you can turn on "notify me of moderation", and every time an Editor moderates one of your posts, you will get a message saying that "a User gave your comment a score of blah blah blah". This is because Editors are actually called "Users" at Slashdot. You can read more about this [sourceforge.net] if you like, but basically, this is a solved problem.
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
It's nice how you can now technically say "Microsoft, convicted felons" and be correct. I do it at the lunch table and it wigs people out, but they think about it, and realize you're right. Just wanted to point out that if they really think Lindows is a threat to their corporate accounts, they have the option to pull much nastier stunts and get away with it. It's happened before.
As far as your sig goes, I don't think you understand. Rob said that "Admins are Users too" and that means that Admins are actually Users. No matter how much you may disagree, you are wrong. The person who disagreed with Rob is a Troll, and as Jamie McCarthy once pointed out [slashdot.org], "Slashdot's Trolls are exclusively destructive". Therefore, if you agree with a Troll, not only are you wrong, but you are exclusively destructive. If I were you, I'd wise up and stop trying to destroy things before you get blacklisted. You have to watch your mouth when posting here. You'll never know when they trip that flag on you, except perhaps you'll notice that you can't moderate or metamoderate anymore... Either way, you need to find the strength to go with the flow. It's an act of personal sacrifice, sometimes, to stop thinking differently. All the same, it would be in your best interest to do so.
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
Oh, and sorry... I didn't notice that you were joking about the sig thing. But regardless, from now on it's only
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
That's how they push the upgrade of Office. Once you start receiving Word or Excel docs that you can't open (but are expected to be able to open) from people who don't have a clue as to how to save in a format that WILL open correctly under other versions of the software, you're almost forced to go out and get the new version, whether you want to or not.
I don't see where Lindows is going to change that.
Now...if the gov't were to impose on MS to open up their file formats, and *keep them open* through new revisions of their products - then I can see there being viable (legal) alternatives to MS Office and the forced upgrade cycle.
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that under Lindows, when you can't read a newer version of an office file in your version of Word, Excel, etc., you can open it with StarOffice, OpenOffice, KOffice or whatever else you have that might (and my experience has been that it usually does) work. This breaks the forced upgrade cycle.
As for me, I'm 3+ Microsoft free years in a Fortune 100 company.
Hmm... is forking a bigger problem here? (Score:3, Insightful)
You know... I like the GPL for a reason...
Re:Interesting work, from a technical aspect (Score:2)
Please, be accurate.
I know where my money's going (Score:3, Interesting)
He ran several Microsoft Office applications on his IBM ThinkPad, though some functions of those programs still aren't working properly under Lindows. They'll come in time, he says.
So, instead of paying $100 for a Windows upgrade that crashes occasionally, but runs everything, we can pay $100 for an OS that crashes occasionally and can't run everything.
missing the point (Score:3, Interesting)
ok, great. it runs windows apps. but the cost? (Score:3, Interesting)
Come on.
Unless it supports things like USB for devices Linux doesn't already support, etc. I really don't see this being a viable competitor.
My main beef w/Linux at this point is that I can't sync my Casiopeia via USB cradle (I have to use the serial keyboard "cradle") which is slow and painful.
My god damn parallel printer (HP 960c) is not very well supported and making a
If Lindows will solve those problems for me I would be less weary... For $100 though? I will suffer w/my serial cradle and using WP8 (which works w/the printer just fine).
Just my worthless
Screenshots (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_screens
It looks impressive to me (so far).
Re:Screenshots (Score:2)
Oh, because it will be able to run MS office + other apps?
Do you want also CodeWeavers to stop making crossover so you'll be won't able to see quicktime, shockwave or get any docs in word?
And transgaming? you don't want them to succseed and let people who run linux to play windows games? I don't know about you but I love playing return to castle wolfenstein single user (windows version only available now) under WineX - kill them too?
Give me a break! I wish all of them well and I hope they'll succseed! I bought CrossOver, subscribed to Transgaming and if Lindows will proove to be good - then heck - I'll buy it too! why? because I want my Linux to run some applications that they're vendors didn't give a shit about Linux and I want to use those applications without rebooting every time!
Go ahead - join RMS and his GPL only world!
Think Lindows isn't 'real'? (Score:3, Interesting)
The current WWN [winehq.com] is convering the progress for some new testing tools for Wine..
But what if Lindows.com already HAD those tools? They could have fixed those regressions already, and boom, you have a 'more complete' Wine.
I don't think LindowsOS running Win32 apps is all that impossible. All the parts are already there, they're just not all working at the same time.
Re:Think Lindows isn't 'real'? (Score:2)
Wine has regressions because it is currenty in a "developer only release" state. The Wine team is making the 1.0 push, and when they hit 1.0, you shouldn't see regressions in that branch.
Poke around on www.winehq.com, and fine the roadmap, change log, etc. to see where they've been, where they're going, and where they are.
Who's going to switch!? (Score:4, Insightful)
The business community are unlikely to - why would a sysadmin decide to put his neck on the line switching 5000 systems to lindows. When one critical application doesn't work as it's meant to, it all come crashing down around him. Most sysadmins will just stick to windows even if it does cost more.
The geek community are unlikely to. For the past five years i've kept a linux machine and a windows machine and will soon be readding a mac to that collection. Bluntly windows rocks for games and multimedia - whilst i'd love to do these on linux the support just isn't there. I'll keep my linux pure and gpl'd thank you very much.
The education community might. Although schools tend to avoid anything that they dont know since they dont tend to have a dedicated sys admin to set things up (and in the uk most schools pay sooo far over the odds for computers that the price difference wouldn't care).
Universities and Colleges might jump, since art students will be able to stick with word and it of course gives tech students unix as well. However most uni's at least have some linux workstations, or windows machines with exceed and big linux servers.
Quite honestly i dont see the market for it. Although if they go bust i really hope they open their code to wine.
Ultimately microsofts approach to this problem will be obvious:
Windows costs $W
Lindows costs $L
Office costs $O
Simply create a new bundle which includes Windows and Office at a price less than $O+$L.
Management... (Score:3, Insightful)
> a sysadmin decide to put his neck on the line
> switching 5000 systems to lindows. When one
> critical application doesn't work as it's meant
> to, it all come crashing down around him. Most
> sysadmins will just stick to windows even if it
> does cost more.
I doubt that a sysadmin would switch of his own volition (unless it was a small shop), but often these kinds of decisions are made by management. They do care about the cost of software, and if Lindows.com can market it well, they might go for it.
I agree that it will be a tough sell, though. Let's hope that the Wine project can get a lot of good code out of it...
Re:Management... (Score:2)
Re:Who's going to switch!? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah. When I took computer graphics in college we only ever used Word. We did entire 30 minute CGI mpg movies in Word. It rocked. Photoshop, 3ds max, Maya, Lightwave, AutoCAD, DeBabelizer, Premiere, and After Effects are for pussies!
Re:Who's going to switch!? (Score:2)
hehe... how true (Score:3, Funny)
I always love this metaphore. And how true that describes the situation of Microsoft's customers. You keep on putting in more efforts, keep on running, but you are going nowhere.
Great Idea, Flawed Execution (Score:3, Insightful)
Except... (Score:2)
you are paying for Windows, aren't you?
Oh, look, here comes the BSA. *duck*
Re:Except... (Score:2)
I dual boot windows/linux, and under linux I run vmware with windows. Linux is free, Vmware costs 1/2 the price of lindows. I just wonder if I can play games under Lindows, I have to boot back for some games. (Thou I hear RTCW has linux binaries, need to check that out)
Re:Except... (Score:2)
But you're comparing apples and oranges - VMWare gives you an entire virtual machine top to bottom, while Lindows will let you run some windows apps - specially Office.
Win4Lin could be a "competitor" but the biggest problem for me with it that it doesn't let you install anything other then Windows 95/98 and only english/german language (I need the Hebrew version)
WINE, anyone? (Score:2, Insightful)
for $100, I could get MS windows and run it natively.
for FREE, I could download mandrake linux and run windows apps through wine or VMware.
What does lindows have to offer that the above don't? NOTHING.
Re:WINE, anyone? (Score:2)
All software is free until you get caught.
Approach reminiscent of Transgaming (Score:3, Interesting)
There may still be a Linux market for Lindows' extensions to WINE or whatever they're building on, though. There are certainly worse ways to burn VC.
Big benefit of Lindows? (Score:2, Insightful)
- Not having to dual-boot?
- Price?
- Just to screw over Micro$oft?
You can get Windows cheap [directdeals.com] at several places. At the previous link Windows 2000 and Windows XP (both full version, OEM) are under $150.
As much as you may hate Windows, chances are good that Windows-based software is going to run better on Windows than Lindows. Why spend $100 on Lindows when you can get the real deal for a few bucks more?
The Chaos (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The Chaos (Score:2)
linblows... (Score:2, Informative)
Everything I've heard up until now has convinced me that Lindows is for sure a modified version of Wine, with some eye candy added and all this backed up by a team of PR goons.Also, not releasing the source speaks for itself...
Up until now, Lindows seemed like a good candidate for SatireWire's vaporware list, but they might have something to show after all.
Also, the price is unbelievable! Who would pay to run buggy microsoft software on an (almost certainly)buggy emulator? I'd rather buy a windows license:)
The bottom line is: instead of trying to emulate windows, try to help developing native linux applications. Like Staroffice and Gimp for starters.
Windows vs. Lindows (Score:2)
Robertson has one word for the claim: ``absurd.''
There are thousands of computer-related products with ``Windows'' in their names, he says. Yet Microsoft has left those products unmolested.
Come on, Lindows, Windows. They are obviously trying to use the Windows name to generate intrest (and the lawsuit as well). While I don't think MS can make him change it, I do think there's not much point in denying that the name is purposly similar.
And 1000s of applications with the name "windows"??? I can't think of any, help me out??
TRoy
Re:Windows vs. Lindows (Score:2)
Re:Windows vs. Lindows (Score:2)
Trademark problems and pretty ones (Score:2, Interesting)
sign up to get in on the sneak preview (Score:2, Informative)
Re:sign up to get in on the sneak preview (Score:2)
Re:sign up to get in on the sneak preview (Score:2)
This is interesting, but I wonder how practical (Score:5, Insightful)
In the article itself, the opinion is voiced that there are about 10 major applications that Windows users use. OK, granted. Unfortunately, what we are discussing here is an OS switch, and it's not that simple.
Linux users are quite accustomed to the notion of things like using 8 different IRC clients as the situation warrants. Windows users, on the other hand, quickly grow accustom to even the tiniest quirk of their default system. AOL can't change anything, even on their website, without causing some of their users to be unhappy about the difference.
The point is, if Lindows runs Office and a few other major apps well, that's enough for some businesses. But for home users, EVERYTHING must work as they expect from previous experience, or they won't even consider switching. If their bizarre little propritary note keeper doesn't work, no dice. They ain't movin.
Linux users, who you might think logically would be more interested, will be put off by the commercial nature of the project and are far more likely to wait for/help the wine project. Also, VMware and WinforLin allow people to run Windows programs. There's already compeition out there.
So the only conceivable mass market for this system is business. Great. Unfortunately, we all know how keen the vast majority of the business world is on switching to something different and untried. Especially if it involves retraining. Linux applications won't intice them much - there are other ways to get those, using cygwin, vnc, remote Xwindows connections, etc. Lindows does most of this, let's say. It does it a little better than the above solutions. But will it do ENOUGH better to justify businesses upgrading? Unlikely.
Don't get me wrong - I hope it succeeds. It's just going to have a heck of a time doing so.
Re:This is interesting, but I wonder how practical (Score:2)
So if we converted to Linux right now, about 20% of our people would have to either have dual boot Windows/Linux boxes, or dual boxes. That gets pretty expensive. Also, I've got this feeling that no matter how the antitrust settlement comes out, when we go to buy site licenses for that 20%, there will be some sort of problem when MS discovers that we aren't buying Windoze for _all_ the boxes. Suppose we could buy Lindows for that 20% instead? That's a significant direct cost savings over the same # of Windows licenses. The users won't have to reboot from Linux into Windows to get Word running, which is a considerable time savings.
Or we could ease the transition a lot by starting with a 75% Windows, 25% Lindows shop and gradually moving more to Linux until Windows was gone and only those people with a real need to interchange data with outside Windows shops still used Lindows.
One final note: engineering has quite a lot of archived projects in Windows-only CAD systems (Orcad, for instance). We will need to keep the capability of printing out and updating those designs practically forever. Buying the newest version of Windows every couple of years really doesn't cut it, because eventually one of their new "features" is going to render the old applications inoperable. Any chance we'll be able to run those apps in some version of Lindows or Wine?
Re:This is interesting, but I wonder how practical (Score:2)
If people viewed this as an upgrade, then it might be easier for them to accept. If it comes preinstalled on their next computer, then they might not even notice.
Re:This is interesting, but I wonder how practical (Score:2)
I like my RedHat, and I'm sure other people love their Mandrake, SuSE or Debian - why not sell them this special wine for a good price? ($40-$50 should be fare enough to both sides)..
Lindows people on slashdot readers to comment?
right. (Score:2)
That's why M$ never changes anything, right? Sorry, but that does not hold water. I'm sitting here at a new w2k machine. There are dozens of UI changes from NT and 98. Many of the changes are on heavily used items, like find which used to be under tools and is now under a right click. So why is it that people like you never apply the same criticisms to OS from M$?
It's funny how shifing convienence is more difficult to use than a constant CLI tool. Let me tell you how frustrating it is to not be able to pull up a command prompt and get the same find tool I've been using for the last four years under Linux.
sign up for the sneak preview (Score:2, Informative)
Re:sign up for the sneak preview (Score:3, Informative)
Re:sign up for the sneak preview (Score:2)
Big ducking feel...
t_t_b
GPL? (Score:2)
But here's my question... Is it going to be GPLed? I always thought that if you 'changed' Linux, you were obliged to GPL it. Here they come out, selling it for $100 for a single-user system? Granted, some people will probably buy this and love it. But, IMHO, a lot of Linux's success has been that you can get it free, in both terms of the word. Lindows might suck; it might rock. But I don't want to pay my $100 and hate it, so I'd spend a while talkign to other users, or maybe *cough* try someone else's copy *cough*. With Linux, you download it, or (legally) use someone else's disk, and if you don't like it, you delete it. If you end up liking Linux, you can put it on other computers too.
I think a lot of Linux's success has been due to it's license. Yeah, IMHO, Linux is incredibly stable and secure, but if people are too apprehensive to use it, none of that's going to matter to them. So, to sum up my ramblings... I think that, while $100 alone isn't all that bad (RedHat Pro is right around there, isn't it? It's GPL, but to buy the disk set and manuals and stuff...), the fact that it's "single user" is a bad move for them, in terms of attracting users. (Granted, being mentioned on Slashdot frequently may not hurt...)
Wenning the windows user away from MS (Score:2)
Take the ten applications mentioned and given enough time the GNU/linux/GPL side of the spectrum will come up with compairable products.
All Lindows really does is help the consumer who is stuck on windows to move over to linux. The the fear of moving from a product they paid for having such and such supposed support, to linux which is not the same "paid for and supported by the manufacture" type of system.....Lindows can only help.
Anyone here who wants to argue against that (knowing full well that wine also exist to base a market test against - regarding whatever success lindows has) is exposing themselves as being a potential MS cronie
(And the MS cronie tag game is on!! Only rule, when you find an MS cronie posting distortions here - point them out as being such! - Maybe slashdot could use a forth option on the pill [friend, neutral, foe] - a blue one for MS cronie tagging.)
Re:Wenning the windows user away from MS (Score:2)
That should worry MS alot more than Lindows!!!
Are other run levels included or just single user? (Score:2, Funny)
wonder if init 6 costs extra? Hope not, if
it's as ustable as windows. I'm assuming run-level
3 is also available?</joke>
Re: (Score:2)
I'd like to try it out, for good reasons. (Score:2, Insightful)
But. Considering that I more or less feel I must purchase another system, because dual-booting is ridicolous when trying to get something done, and I don't feel I have an option of choosing either system, $100 is a bargain. I won't get under $3-400 in parts I lack to put up the minimum system I need to run two, and that is if I use my old 14" monitor or get some kind of switch.
To be perfectly clear, I can't do without Windows, and I don't want to do without Linux (I don't actually need Linux, but it sure makes life easier to test certain stuff, and it is lots and lots more fun).
If it is any good, I would definetely try and get a copy at work too, because it would make my life a lot easier there too. Being able to use the corporate-specific applications (yeah, you know the ones) and a few of my own specials alongside with running in a *nix environment would certainly brighten up my day. The applications I use in Windows are few, but extremely necessary, some according to me, and some according to guys that don't know shit, but does pay me cash. Heh.
And yes, I do love open-source, it has saved the day for me countless times, but I also believe in making money, so I understand the guy. Just possibly, this could add to the flora of open-source programs out there, as more people would possibly be able to write stuff on a *nix environment. I don't feel that whether the OS costs money is that important. Consider it a part of your computer, much like memory chips or the motherboard. It is a natural part of the system, and some prefer Intel, while some prefer AMD or Motorola. What you run on it is more important in my opinion (and in this imperfect world I might add).
Anyone know what the upgrades will cost if you buy this first version?
Lindows definitely is real (Score:2)
Now all I need to do is see if I can get a job with them
Re:Lindows definitely is real (Score:2)
I'm certain that if Lindows gets market share ... (Score:2)
This won't fly.... (Score:4, Troll)
Why? I'm a network admin and I wouldn't switch for ~$50/machine. What happens when one of our apps doesn't work? What happens when the VP of whatever gets a new widget and there is no driver? Now I'm supporting a couple of operating systems.
Also, what happens when an app is flakey. You think the vendor will support me when I'm running Lindows? Good luck! It sounds good in theory, but I just don't see it. One thing people need to realize is that the cost of software is very small compared to support and other things. Saving ~$50/machine is not a big deal. Sure, you may save a lot if you buy 10K machines at a time, but if you do you can get some good deals from other vendors as well.
I think the OpenSource community will have much better luck with a *GOOD* Office type application, not so much on the operating systems. That's where the real money is spent. Since the OS comes on the system the price of that is usually overlooked, and low enough not to matter when a $100 competitor comes out. Give me a good supported Office app for $100 and I'll switch from my $350/user app.
What's the relationship between Lindows and WINE? (Score:3, Interesting)
Is Lindows just a WINE repackinging, and if not, what new code does it add that WINE does not have?
Michael Robertson (Score:2)
Will it run Windows server components? (Score:2)
I'd like to run Linux apps over RDP, but there doesn't seem to be an RDP server available for Linux.
The Box (Score:2, Insightful)
My question is who's gonna buy Lindows. OSS meets all of mine and my organization's needs. We don't need to run expensive MS Office apps or Lotus Notes. And for those who mistakenly think they need such pricey commercial software, why would they spend another $100 to use it in emulation?
Re:Not just $100 (Score:2)
Get it into your heads, people! It's gunna cost us ALL (including the entire US economy, to some degree, if one really purpots that MS makes way more money than they ever deserved to) to get outta this. Much of the richness and wealth and comfort of living in the western world owes itself to the very institutions that so many people wish to dismantle
Re:Why would you do such a thing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which Windows? I know everyone loves to beat up the unreliability of the 16 bit Windows kernel, but with Windows 2000 and Windows XP it's a different story.
In a few years Microsoft won't be selling any of the Win9x series.. then the extra stability of Linux won't be such a novelty to users, and Linux folks will have to come up with a better line than a more stable kernel.
Or to say it differently, when most Windows users don't find Windows to be unstable, telling them that you've got a more stable OS isn't going to convince them.
- Steve
Re:Why would you do such a thing? (Score:2, Insightful)
Exactly. And I would add:
In a few years (or right now) telling my mom that she can have Linux for free and hack network admin software sources OR pay a couple hundred (or whatever) dollars for an system that she can do what moms do, what do you think she will prefer?
What Six-pack-Joe-User cares about stability when you can't play the games? Access thousands of websites (badly done, but still...)? Runs multimedia software? (From Adobe to whatever)? Runs the latest app trend? And the list could go on...
The two most important keys to succed on the desktop is Software That People Want To Use And Good Interface.
Btw mod me down as a troll if you wish so badly.
Re:Why would you do such a thing? (Score:2)
Last time I checked, free is better than not free.
Re:Lindows Applications (Score:2)
Can anyone provides links with more info?
(i.e. Does it run Half-Life?)
Half-Life? Pfft. If Lindows is going to push for compatibility with games people love, they should focus on getting the game that vast majority of Windows users have become enthralled with. The game that's built a cult following due to it's blazing fast action and amazing eye candy. The game that so many Windows users consider the coolest, most exhilarating and most addictive game ever:
Solitaire.
Re:$100 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:$100 (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess I'll wait to hear whether they contribute money or code back to all the Free Software and Open Source projects they'll be taking advantage of in the process. I suppose they can't de-GPL anything, so that's a major plus.
The real question is, why for $100 would anyone switch off Windows for less than 100% compatibility with their Windows software? What guarantee will Lindows make that the next upgrade set from MS won't break Lindows, leaving users in the lurch with applications going stale?
Re:$100 (Score:3, Insightful)
> switch off Windows for less than 100%
> compatibility with their Windows software?
As I understand the article, Lindows(tm) will be targeted at those who want to use a core of 11 commonly used Windows applications yet don't want to upgrade to the latest versions of Windows and/or those core applications.
In essence, the target group will stand pat with their current applications and still have the ability to cash in, as it were, on the availability of alternative applications in LINUX.
As for the $100 price tag, there is a little story I would tell you.
There was a company that made excellent shoes for men out of the very best materials. They priced their shoes very low to generate demand. While they had a loyal clientbase, their profits dropped off so much, they almost went out of business.
An analysis showed that:
1. The shoes were an extremely durable product.
2. The loyal clientbase were ready and willing to pay much more for the product.
3. Some prospective new clients were put off by the low price - viewing price as a status symbol and the shoes as not a value at the low price.
The company raised prices on the shoes and immediately saw an increase in clientele and a coresponding jump in profits. The loyal clientbase continued to purchase the product and new clients viewed the product as a durable value item and a status symbol on the foot.
Now, how does that tie into your $100 dollar question? Well, we are dealing with folk who will probably be willing to foot (heh) the price because they view the product to be a value proposition. (They will eventually be forced to upgrade by Microsoft(tm).) Value in that the price is competitive with Windows, will allow them to continue using the products they already own and likey give them a bargaining chip to use against Microsoft(tm).