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Red Hat 7.2 Released 669

Spirit writes "Red Hat has anounced the release of Version 7.2 distribution with Gnome 1.4 and Nautilus, default ext3 fliesystem and according to ZDnet migration from LILO to GRUB"
Updated by HeUnique:There are some issues to note before upgrading: The kernel that comes with the RH 7.2 is heavily patched 2.4.7 and has been tested quite heavily on fully loaded Linux boxes - so the recommendation is to use it

If you're upgrading from the previous Red Hat 7.1 and you're using Ximian GNOME, then you might want to erase all Ximian GNOME RPMS (use the command: rpm -e `rpm -qa | grep -i ximian` --nodeps to erase the RPMS). Red Hat's GNOME RPMS has been more tested then Ximian's one and there is a conflict between them. You cannot use Red-Carpet on Redhat 7.2 as it will fail with the RPM libraries.

These are the most critical notes about Redhat 7.2. You might want to read the README & the Release-notes which appears on the 1st ISO image.

Oh, and if you already installed it - then have some fun with the new un-official RPMS from Enigma's section of FreshRPMS

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Red Hat 7.2 Released

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 22, 2001 @08:57AM (#2459258)
    To forestall the inevitable questions
    -- why not reiserfs, xfs, jfs, etc.

    First look at the total feature
    list of ext3 and compare, in particular the
    compatibility (forwards AND backwards) with ext2.

    There may or may not be better candidates for
    a fs, but there are certainly none better for
    a default install.

    • On this page [], a redhat employee explained why they chose ext3.

      It was also the topic of a previous slashdot post [].

      This extract sums it up :

      Why do you want to migrate from ext2 to ext3? Four main reasons: availability, data integrity, speed, and easy transition.


      Again, we don't claim that every one of these points are unique to ext3. Most of them are shared by at least one other filesystem. We merely claim that the set of all of them together is true only for ext3.

    • An official statement on why ext3 was chosen (ext2 compatibility is a major reason, but not the only one) can be found here [].
  • First impression (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geirt ( 55254 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @08:59AM (#2459262)

    I have been playing with the 7.2 betas (roswell) since it came out, and with the 7.2 release for about a week now.

    I am very pleased with Redhat 7.2, it has given me very few problems, and it was the first Linux distribution that installed into my laptop without any tweaks.

    The main enhancements (as visible by the user):

    Grub instead of lilo (but you can still use lilo if you want to ..). Grub is a great boot loader, similar to the "boot monitor" of real Unix hardware. Grub understands the file system, so you do not need to reinstall Grub every time you update your kernel (like you have to with lilo). Once you are in the grub boot promt, you can boot any OS on your system (eg. from a floppy)

    Mozilla and Nautilus: (I am a gnome user)

    Mozilla is a rather old release, but it was the release chosen by Netscape for NS6.1 so it is quite good. Nautilus is 1.0.4 + a lot of patches from RH (Alan Cox ?) to speed things up. Natilus is still somewhat slow, but I don't use file managers so much, so I don't care. I think that you should have at least 128 MB ram to run it, is was slow on one of my test machines with 64MB ram and a sub optimal disk system. Seeing the speed and stability improvements of Mozilla in the last 6 months, I am quite confident that Nutilus will be a great file manager (++) in a short time frame. It is a very good "eye candy", and impresses every Windows user seeing it. If you for one reason or another, don't like Nautilus, use the good old GNU Midnight Commander instead (yes it is on the CD).

    Kernel, gcc, ptyhon, etc

    The kernel is 2.4.7 + a lot of patches. Since RedHat 7.1 is at kernel 2.4.9-6 already, I believe that we will see an updated kernel soon. The main compiler is RedHats own 2.96 + modifications, and python is at 1.5.2-35. You will find gcc 3.01 and python 2.1.1 on the CD which can be installed separately. RedHat 8.0 will probably use these as default.

    Postfix, Apache:

    Redhat has dropped support for Postfix (a sendmail replacement), which used to be on the Powertools CD. I really don't know why, but I hope that the next RedHat release will fix this major bug. Apache is the rock solid 1.3.20.

    Executive Summary:

    RH7.2 is a polished good distribution. Since it is a .2 version, RedHat is going to support it for a looong time, and it will become the first choice for many system administrators for serious linux servers (that is, until 8.2 is released).

    • Re:First impression (Score:5, Informative)

      by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero@redh a t . c om> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:07AM (#2459296) Homepage
      Redhat has dropped support for Postfix (a sendmail replacement), which used to be on the Powertools CD. I really don't know why

      It's because Powertools was dropped, and everything on Powertools that conflicts with something on a main CD (e.g. you can't install postfix and sendmail on the same system) had to go because at this time, the installer doesn't handle conflicting packages (breaking the "Everything" install isn't nice).

      This is likely to get fixed in a future release (no promises though, it's not my decision [I'm all for postfix]).

      Those who prefer it can grab the current official postfix package from rhcontrib []. I'll open up the 7.2 section there later today.

      Since it is a .2 version, RedHat is going to support it for a looong time

      <obligatory "we don't preannounce releases" rant>
      What makes you think the next release will be 8.0? ;)
    • Re:First impression (Score:5, Informative)

      by Alan Cox ( 27532 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:08AM (#2459297) Homepage
      Not me - I did a bit of benchmarking but that is my sole contribution to nautilus. Lots of other folks both inside and outside of RH did all the work.
  • by RasputinAXP ( 12807 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:00AM (#2459267) Homepage Journal
    From the ZDNet Article:
    Red Hat 7.2 isn't quite a knife in the heart of Windows yet. However, we can't help but feel that it will certainly nick a major artery.

    I nicked a major artery this morning shaving. Those things hurt pretty badly and bleed profusely.

    I hope to see Bill Gates with many little pieces of toilet paper on his cheeks at the XP launch.

    • by Rogerborg ( 306625 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:32AM (#2459405) Homepage
      • Red Hat 7.2 isn't quite a knife in the heart of Windows yet. However, we can't help but feel that it will certainly nick a major artery.

      Uh, wait. Without wishing to troll, have you read the list of "things you should know" above? At the retail / desktop/ even OEM level, this is not what people want to hear. They want to hear "Put the CD in the drive. Switch on the machine. Select your language and time zone. Wait."

      I think that WinXP has goofed big time with its registration requirements. Now is a great opportunity for GNU/Linux distros to make a big play for the desktop, but they'll gain share only by being idiot proof, because (let's be honest) if we're talking about "knifing the heart" of the Windows market, we're really talking about people who are terrified of anything that comes with a README.

      • What is GNU/Linux?

        Is that some sort of extention of EMACS written is LISP??
      • Uh, wait. Without wishing to troll, have you read the list of "things you should know" above? At the retail / desktop/ even OEM level, this is not what people want to hear.

        Have you read the list yourself? There's nothing there that anyone at "the retail / desktop" level is going to care about. The kernel just works, that comment was to warn /.ers against upgrading the kernel to 2.4.12 or something, if they want assured stability. The Gnome issue only applies to upgrading from 7.1 - how many retail/desktop people do you know who upgrade their own OS from one minor version to another?

  • I am stoked! (Score:2, Interesting)

    We can tick off another feature that the 'linux is not ready' brigade use against us. Journalling file system means Linux is now more than ready for the enterprise.

    Linux just seems to be going from strength to strenght while Micro$oft struggle to persuade their (l)users to upgrade to yet another version.

    It just goes to show the power of the Open Source 'bazaar' development model.

    I am a bit concerned about this GRUB thing, does it replace LILO ? I've only just got the hang of lilo after all these years. I hope all my enrgy has not gone to waste.

    Anyone know if this version will have support for the new higher speed USB that is coming out soon ?

    • I am a bit concerned about this GRUB thing, does it replace LILO ?

      In the long run, yes.
      In 7.2, you have the choice between lilo and grub.
      Try grub though, it has many useful features.

      I've only just got the hang of lilo after all these years. I hope all my enrgy has not gone to waste.

      One of the good things of 7.2/grub is that you don't need to know how to edit its config files - kernels install themselves to the boot menu automatically.
      • do they do that? is there a script? or is this a new feature of grub? I have always thought you needed to go into the grub config file to add an entry...I use Lilo so I realy don't know how Grub works......any FAQs on it?
        • One of the features of grub is that you don't need to reinstall it every time you update the config file - therefore, kernel updates can now safely add an entry to the config file.

          Also, if you compiled a test kernel yourself and don't want to clutter the boot menu, you can just tell grub to boot it anyway - it comes with a shell (nothing you need to work with unless you want to).
          • whoa, so your kernel can still be a zImage in the Linux src directory and you just need to type the path to the Image!!! that kicks ass!!! no more unbootable systems because of a lazy person (me) not testing on a bzdisk!!! that is the coolest thing I have ever more user friendly can you get!!
  • by Knunov ( 158076 ) <eat@my.ass> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:04AM (#2459284) Homepage
    Everytime I download a distro, within a week a new one comes out. I just finished downloading all 3 CD ISOs for Red Hat 7.1 and Tools and now they release 7.2

    I'm switching to FreeBSD. Those guys update MUCH more slowly...

    • Re:Without Fail... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Publicus ( 415536 )

      Switch if you want to - but your reasoning doesn't make any sense. RH 7.1 came out in April. That's 6 months ago.

      But I wouldn't abandon 7.1 just yet. Let folks mess with 7.2 and find out what they have to say. Besides, RH isn't worth anything until it's supported by Ximian, therefore, 7.1 is the way to go!

    • Re:Without Fail... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Baki ( 72515 )
      Not really, but gradually and constantly: There is a -current and a -stable CVS branch. You can follow the -stable CVS branch to stay completely uptodate all the time. Nothing ever breaks except on major announcements and big MFC's (merge from current) that are announced. At those times it may be necessary to revisit your config files in /etc (which can be automated with 'mergemaster').

      Thus, you never have to download a new version, but you can always download incremental diffs (daily) that patch the complete source tree (cvsup). I have not reinstalled my FreeBSD system in 5 years time, yet it is 100% clean (all add-ons and optional parts to into /usr/local and don't spoil the main OS) and up to date.
      (cd /usr/src; make world from time to time).
    • >I'm switching to FreeBSD. Those guys update MUCH more slowly...

      It's a good idea, but you get continual updates. If you run stable, you can update to cvs daily if you feel the need . . . however, if you're builidng from source (doesn't everyone? :), the transitions across major versions are barely noticable.


  • by banky ( 9941 ) <gregg.neurobashing@com> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:05AM (#2459289) Homepage Journal
    This has been at my local CompUSA (Fairfax, VA) for over a week. Anyone have any ideas as to why?
  • I'd love to read a comparison between these two famous Linux distros: features, stability, ergonomy... That would be interesting!
    • Well, I've not used RedHat since about 5.2 or 6, so I can't comment on that, but I did install Mandrake 8.1 on both my home and work machines a couple of weeks ago. (Upgrading from 8.0)

      I almost wish I hadn't. Supermount doesn't seem to want to work anymore, no matter what I try, and X on my work machine locks up about twice a week.

      If I had the time, I'd probably go back to 8.0, at least at work, but I'm a little too busy for a reinstall now (the upgrade was performed at a weekend, when I was in to make up for missed time (damn that guilt...))


  • Does anyone know when will Red Hat have RH Linux 7.2 available in a commercial package (e.g., manuals and CD-ROM discs).

    I still haven't seen the commercial package release of Linux Mandrake 7.1.
  • Think mirrors! (Score:5, Informative)

    by French Thias ( 188992 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:11AM (#2459312) Homepage
    I've put up a "known to be fully synced" mirror list here : []

    Also, don't forget to go get all the "missing" goodies (xine, lame, nessus...) from []

    Happy download! :-)


  • What about ReiserFS? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bilenkey ( 82792 )
    Im surpised: ext3 as a default fs!? Is there an option to use ReiserFS instead of ext3? I've converted all but / and /boot to reiserfs more than a year ago and never had any problems with it. I think that ext3 has not been tested by public as much as reiserfs.
    • by Cheeze ( 12756 )
      the reason for ext3 over resier is the ability to non-destructively upgrade an ext2 drive. with reiserfs, you have to format the drive, which means dataloss for those that can't just 'tar zcvf /dev/tape /'. i'm sure there are other reasons too, but for most people, that ability is important.
  • by Bowie J. Poag ( 16898 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:15AM (#2459328) Homepage

    But it may just as well be.

    I've been using RH since 2.0.27 on a 386SX/12, and like many of you, have stuck with Red Hat in one form or another for many years. However, recently Red Hat's distrib has begun to suffer, largely because of oddball decisions like the ones we're seeing in 7.2.

    LILO has been replaced with GRUB. Why? So we can confuse things even more for the people who we're trying to attract to the platform? If it aint broke, don't fix it, gang. You have an installed user base that knows the ins and outs of LILO, and has for years..Now that knowledge has been deprecated. Books will have to be rewritten, headaches arise, the whole nine yards will unfold as people have to sit down and digest yet another piece of Linux minutia..Why bother. LILO works. Sometimes switching one working part with another for only minimal gains is NOT a good idea..the situation doesn't mandate such changes.

    Cheers, and yes, PROPAGANDA is still running,
      1. GRUB kicks LILO's ass, feature-wise.
      2. GRUB understands filesystems.
      3. GRUB doesn't screw you if you forget to run a program after changing the configuration file.
      4. GRUB lets you enter a configuration manually at boot time if you *do* screw up the configuration file.
      5. GRUB can boot on some broken BIOSes and hard drives that LILO cant.
      6. GRUB has the same interface across all platforms it runs on, which saves RedHat from having different boot instructions on different architectures (and having to do extra testing on each of those architectures).

      Besides, RedHat lets you choose at installation, so you can <sarcasm>"leverage" the mountain of knowledge you have about LILO</sarcasm>. Like there's so much to know...

    • by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero@redh a t . c om> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:38AM (#2459432) Homepage
      oddball decisions like the ones we're seeing in 7.2

      Such as?

      LILO has been replaced with GRUB. Why?

      Because it has a load of advantages we consider more important than staying with what we've shipped forever.

      • grub knows your filesystem. This means you can boot kernels you haven't listed in its config file (great for recovery, for example).
      • You don't need to reinstall grub every time you've modified its config file. Among other things, that means kernel updates can now add themselves to the boot loader. One of the big problems support was faced with in earlier (LILO based) releases was the number of people updating their kernel and forgetting to adapt /etc/lilo.conf and/or run /sbin/lilo.
      • It looks nicer (no more blocky 320x200 graphic at bootup)
      • It has better support for booting other OSes

      Sometimes switching one working part with another for only minimal gains is NOT a good idea

      You are right about this - and since lilo->grub is not minimal, it doesn't apply to this particular thing.
  • I'm still running 6.2 w/ any patches that
    concern me.

    I don't particularly see any need to upgrade
    to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.

    What's the big deal?
      • I'm still running 6.2 w/ any patches that concern me. What's the big deal?

      That's a good question. I still run one machine at home with Win95 first edition plus a shitload of patches (all backed to CD). Friends scoff, but when I ask them what the functional difference is between my install and WinME (aka Win95 5th Edition), they don't generally have a convincing answer.

      I have to agree with the "what's the big deal?" sentiment. Is there some reason why we turn every release of every open source OS distro into a big event (or at least a big discussion)?

      Honest question: who is this announcement aimed at? The people who are likely to upgrade already know. Those who aren't likely to upgrade don't really care. Casual/non nerd buyers will grab whatever the latest version is off of a shelf.

      I can't in all honesty see why this is any more newsworthy than any of the Win95 evolutions. Instead of modding me as a troll, can you consider explaining to my poor addled brain why this announcement will surprise or excite anyone?

    • I'm still running 6.2 w/ any patches that concern me.
      I don't particularly see any need to upgrade to 7.0, 7.1 or 7.2 for that matter.
      What's the big deal?

      I've used every version of RedHat since 3.3, and several versions of Mandrake over the last 6 years. That's a lot of upgrading, particularly since I have several servers and workstations running Linux. My firewall/proxy/router is still running a heavily upgraded version of RH 6.1, and my mail server is running a butchered version of RH 6.0. My internal web server and all of the workstations are running RH 7.1, and I'll be upgrading some of those to RH 7.2 in the near future, as it stabilizes.

      Here's a short list of my reasons to upgrade to RH 7.X:

      • Convenience: I like RedHat and RPM, because it means I can spend my time developing and deploying applications instead of spending my time configuring software. Since I build distributed applications for a living, I find it convenient to be able to mirror my development and deployment environment at home, and RPM is a great way to make certain that all of the servers are configured correctly and running the same versions of the necessary software. Of course, convenience has a price, and with RedHat, the price is that RPMs for newer software are built for the most recent release.
      • OpenSSL/OpenSSH: you can't beat the convenience of having these pre-installed and working from RPMs. Anyone who's had to build these from scratch and then configure them will appreciate not having to repeat that procedure every time someone finds a new bug.
      • Apache 1.3.20: One word: security.
      • 2.4 Kernels: Much better for heavily threaded servers, because of the finer locking granularity.
      • XFree 4.X: Better support for graphics hardware for my workstations.

      Ultimately with Red Hat, they've done a good job of supporting older X.2 releases, but support doesn't mean adding new features. If you want the new features, you'll want to upgrade. If you don't want/need them, then stick with what works. At least Red Hat (and most Linux distros) give you that choice -- as opposed to certain eXtra Proprietary systems.

  • This is going to be a though choice, Redhat throws 7.2 at the world, Mandrake 8.1 and SuSE released 7.3 [](however /. does not consider that news)
    Personally I prefer SuSE and can't wait for 7.3 however I must say that Redhat 7.2 looks promesing too, however at a first glance, IMHO SuSE looks better for starting linux users.
  • 1. Go to the official site and get the MD5SUM:

    efab549656a1a85ab8fa39eb873eff0e enigma-SRPMS-disc1.iso
    70703897af7703b40e41777a3aa186c3 enigma-SRPMS-disc2.iso
    cf7bce0c1cdbfedfae29e60aef202f6f enigma-i386-disc1.iso
    fd705b3e5d0e37a828db35d21195a9f6 enigma-i386-disc2.iso

    2. Go to any available mirror that isn't slashdotted...I found:

  • Mirror in Europe (Score:2, Informative)

    by Yenya ( 12004 )
    a 100Mbps mirror in Czech Republic, Europe can be found at [].
  • by James Youngman ( 3732 ) <> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:29AM (#2459397) Homepage
    I migrated my / filesystem (only the one Linux filesystem on my laptop - it dual-boots) from ext2 ro ext3. Totally seamless. No time lost with fsck.

    I accidentally nobbled the ext3 module (by upgrading the kernel and omitting the initrd that normally loads the ext3 module from linuxrc). Red Hat seamlessly mounted as ext2 - no loss of data (but obviously no journalling). Puttng the initrd back brought me back into the ext3 fold, again seamlessly. It was completely painless -I was really impressed. This experience is with 7.1.93 - I have not yet tried 7.2

    In fact, I might not ever try 7.2 because of the really annoying ppp-watcher in 7.1. I had an ISP problem where the chat script would fail to authenticate, and the ppp-watcher just dialled again and again and again... Really annoying, and hard to change. I'm sure I'd miss RH if I stopped using it because I've used it since RH 2.1. For the moment I'm running Red Hat 7.1.93 at home and Debian on my laptop.
  • Custom kernel (Score:2, Insightful)

    When Mandrake 8.1 came out many people flamed it for using a custom kernel. RH has done exactly the same thing again, but no flaming. What gives?
    • Re:Custom kernel (Score:2, Informative)

      by deaddeng ( 63515 )
      I've had no problems compiling and using custom kernels under the 7.2 beta, aka "Roswell." You just need to patch the stable 2.4.12 tree for ext3 support, or use the -ac kernels, which already incorporate ext3 support. I've found 2.4.12-ac3 to be a very stable kernel with good memory and VM behavior. RedHat kernels are closer to -ac kernels right now, it would appear, than to Linus' main kernel tree.
  • by wrinkledshirt ( 228541 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:40AM (#2459441) Homepage
    My God, I just finished downloading 5.1, and now they're already up to 7.2? Great. Just great. Next you're going to tell me they've gone past the 2.2.14 kernel...
  • by Kruemelmo ( 21012 ) <> on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:43AM (#2459454) Homepage
    I understand RedHat cannot integrate ipsec / FreeS/WAN into the Linux distribution because of US export restrictions.

    Is there an "official" way to upgrade RH 7.2 to a kernel version with ipsec support (i.e. frees/wan) for European folks? The absence of this feature in RH becomes a more and more serious concern for my company.

    Of course we know how to patch and compile a kernel. Maintenance must still be easy, though. Installing a custom kernel on several customer servers also means that we cannot use Redhat's update kernel RPMs but must maintain our own ones, so kernel (and possibly other packages) updates get complicated. It will not possible to respond on security issues as quickly as when using RH kernel RPMs.

    It would be a great benefit for European customers if RedHat could at least draw the "official" procedure how to make this RH Linux version ipsec capable and then maintain this procedure as new kernel RPM packages or RedHat Linux versions appear.
    • by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero@redh a t . c om> on Monday October 22, 2001 @10:13AM (#2459566) Homepage
      I understand RedHat cannot integrate ipsec / FreeS/WAN into the Linux distribution because of US export restrictions.

      I don't think the export restrictions you're referring to are still in place.

      We're currently shipping cipe, which provides pretty much the same functionality.

      There have been some reasons for choosing cipe over FreeS/WAN. I don't remember the details, but I think it was related to not supporting non-x86 arches.
  • by RNG ( 35225 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:46AM (#2459462)
    I just upgraded my home machine to Mandrake 8.1, which comes with the same general software packages that RedHat ships. While I (of course) haven't tried the new RH yet, I'll make a general observation based on KDE, Gnome and all the other little goodies which ship on a modern Linux distribution: Usability of Linux (on a well-setup machine) is no longer an argument against it's use.

    Let me explain: when people talk about usabuility, they typically mean "it is (or it isn't) like on Windows" and maybe "it is (or it isn't) like on a Mac". This is not what I would call usability, but rather something like "environment inertia"; people don't like change even if it is for the (long term) better.

    After seeing my mom (aged 60+, bought her first computer 1 year ago, never used a computer before that) struggle with Windows when needing to do rather simple/basic things, I've grown convinced that a (well set up) KDE desktop is just as usable as Windows and that the so often touted Windows usability is nothing more than a myth. Windows is usable once you're used to it; otherwise is't as difficult (or easy) than any other decent windowing system (yes, KDE certainly fits this description, GNOME probably does; this is *not* meant as flamebait but just an abservation of the way these Desktops are configured in the newest Mandrake 8.1 release; your milage may vary). These don't work quite the same way as Windows, but it basically do the same things, provides you with menus, with end-user friendly software (KOffice is pretty cool & looks nice, KMail is quite user friendly, etc) and nice GUI configuration tools. If you have a chance sometime, watch someone who's never used a computer try to figure out Windows; it's very instructive to see that Windows itself is not more or less intuitive than any other windowing
    system; once you've mastered the concepts and abstractions, it becomes easy. The so called usability advantange of Windows is mostly imprinting, inertia and FUD; the functional differences are starting to disappear or become neglegible.

    The biggest obstacle at this point is device/drive support and the need to recompile kernels to get some stuff to work. Usability is (generally speaking) just fine, provided you're working on a well-setup & installed box ...
    • Your mom needs RH7.2 (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dybdahl ( 80720 )
      I upgraded my mom from Windows NT4 to RH7.1, and after the usual "why does it look different" she seems quite happy about being able to doubleclick everything in her mail inbox... and how many 62 year old women that invite to coffee talk with the neighbors tell about upgrading to Red Hat 7.2? Mine does!!!

      RH 7.2 solves a real issue - sometimes (once a month) her harddisk stops working. A hardware error. ext3 makes it possible to start up again without runnin fsck manually. ext3 is the biggest stability improvement for the average end-user.

      • by slamb ( 119285 )

        RH 7.2 solves a real issue - sometimes (once a month) her harddisk stops working. A hardware error.

        While it's great that journalling filesystems let you get started up more quickly, this doesn't solve the problem*. If the hard disk does not consistently spin up, you can be assured that some day it will never spin up again. Get the data off it before this happens.

        Hard disks are cheap. I just bought a Seagate ATA IV ST380021A yesterday. It's 80GB with transfer rates from 24 to 41 MBytes/sec and unbelievably quiet: 2.1 bels idle (below a whisper). It only cost me $200.

        * - "issue" is a pet peeve of mine. A problem is something that needs to be solved. An issue is a point of discussion. While this has become a point of discussion, it was first a problem and hasn't ceased to be. Don't be like Microsoft. Admit there are such things as problems and bugs.

    • Usability is (generally speaking) just fine, provided you're working on a well-setup & installed box ...
      I agree totally.

      I started playing around with Linux back around 1996 with Slackware. It was great to play around with as far as being an alternate OS with a powerful command-line interface (after MS-DOS, I needed more than what Windows 95 offered). After a while, though, I determined that all my GUI applications for Win95 were irreplacable and there was nothing in Linux that could convince me to use it as a primary bootup.

      Ever since then, I would download a new distribution each year or two, which usually was RedHet (and now I play with Mandrake). GUI usability seems to jump in quick strides; each distribution impresses me more and more. More applications suited to my needs, more neat-looking window managers, and better hardware support (this is a major plus!).

      I've just downloaded and installed Mandrake 8.1. I had some problems with 8.0 (the KDE and Gnome default setups weren't flawless and would crash here and there). Even within a 0.1 version change, I see things are more tightly and logically integrated. Office applications are becoming professional grade. Networking is a cinch. And hardware management is awesome; I'm particularly impressed with HardDrake's automatic hardware detection. I swapped graphics cards (which, in the past, meant having to reconfigure X and editing files, etc.) and it was all automatic.

      Pretty soon, I believe we'll start seeing people deciding that Windows isn't exactly worth the $99+, especially with the new activation "feature".

      Hooray for Linux.

  • Yeah, I konw it's trollish to say you're distro sucks. But from my personal experience Red Hat is pretty good, except for two things. 1) it doesn't have the hardware support 2) it doesn't come with all the nifty packages that I need/want. One thing good can be said for red hat, it is very very easy and stable. To each his own.
  • by MartinG ( 52587 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @09:58AM (#2459509) Homepage Journal
    Why do people not gzip the iso files before they put them on the ftp sites? It's something I have never understood. Even with a great deal of the content already compressed, I have got a typical saving of ~10-15% on various distro install disks. Saving 80 odd megabytes of download per disk, per user is a lot. And how hard is it to type "zcat blah.iso | cdrecord" when you have it?

    Never mind that anyway - don't download it, buy it from Redhat instead. But does anyone else wish RH would sell cheap disk sets like mdk do? I bet it would only improve their profits. They would be bought mostly by ppl who currently download the isos (like me), not the ppl who currently buy the boxed sets ('cos they all want manuals etc otherwise they would download also)

    • this really an issue? I would rather see the iso then a gzipped, bzip2 or heck even pkzipped file. Why? It saves you ZERO time in downloading it. The iso contains mostly tarballs. Sure, there are other uncompressed files, but most of a install iso is ALREADY compressed. Compressing it further won't save that much time or make it much smaller. It will still be a big file.

      While, I like the idea behind Debian's system, I find that on non Linux boxes, it's difficult ot do with some reliability. Debian has some sort of system that builds the iso for you and can download multiple parts of it from different mirrors. That way you don't tie up a server connection for any longer then a few minutes, and if a server comes up busy, it can go to the next server to find the file.....that's a simplistic way of explaining it....I am not sure exactly how it works because I have never been able to get it to work on any of my boxes. It's real elegant, but it's a pain in the butt when you just want to grab an iso. Although with Debian, you just need an install floppy that supports your machine and you can apt the rest. But sometimes you want the whole CD so you can install it on a non networked box (maybe a car MP3 Player project or something), so the boot floppy deal ain't cool for everything.
  • Try out RedHat 7.2 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Test Drive ( 236441 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @11:05AM (#2459884) Homepage
    We now have RedHat 7.2 up and running in the Compaq Test Drive Program [], so you can try it on our systems before you put it on yours. It's running on a couple of dual-processor x86 systems, and using the ext3 file system. Sign up for a free account [] and give it a try.
  • by Shane ( 3950 ) on Monday October 22, 2001 @11:51AM (#2460133) Homepage
  • by Peter Teichman ( 4503 ) <> on Monday October 22, 2001 @12:22PM (#2460313) Homepage
    Ximian GNOME for Red Hat Linux 7.2 has been released. Please don't follow the instructions in the article for removing Ximian GNOME, as that will break your rpm dependency tree pretty badly.

    The recommended procedure for upgrading to Red Hat Linux 7.2 with Ximian GNOME is to perform the Red Hat upgrade, then immediately reinstall Ximian GNOME.

    lynx -source |sh

    The mirrors will pick it up shortly.

    Share and enjoy,
    The Ximian release team

"An open mind has but one disadvantage: it collects dirt." -- a saying at RPI