Linux On Your Dreamcast 133
A reader writes: "Looking for a low-cost way to get started with embedded Linux? Or a fun weekend project? In this detailed how-to article at LinuxDevices.com, Bill Gatliff explains everything you need to do to install Linux on a Sega Dreamscast gaming console. Even the necessary Linux kernel, bootloader, and utility kernel patches are included and available for download. Nuffa those mindless video games ... it's time to become an embedded Linux hacker ;)" First time I saw this was in Japan with VA Japan folks -- very cool watching it boot.
Bah, Been done (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah, Been done (Score:2, Funny)
Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
Legacy (Score:1)
Win3.11? Luxury! (Score:1)
(Hey wait, yt has been done [ganksoft.com] too...)
Re:Bah, Been done (Score:1)
Linux inside (Score:4, Funny)
--trb
Re:Linux inside (Score:1)
Organic_Info:root:/dev/brainfs>shutdown -y -g2 -i0
Oooppppsss to late.......
DreamCast - Poor mans webserver (Score:4, Funny)
Mix that with an NFS mount and a DataBase Server and you could run slashdot off it.
I wonder how well a dreamcast rack mounts?
Re:DreamCast - Poor mans webserver (Score:1, Redundant)
Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these?
Have you seen the price of the BBA? (Score:1)
That's $220 right there... leave it to a slashdotter to ignore all the humor in a given comment, eh?
Re:DreamCast - Poor mans webserver (Score:1)
Old news (Score:5, Informative)
It's nice to see the portability of Linux demonstrated. And you can use it to really freak out some non-Linux people.
But has this any practical use? A TV screen isn't any good to display text. It isn't useful for developing games either. The Dreamcast community has created tools that are far better suited for that.
Really, it's a nice hack. But it's been on slashdot before (Dreamcast runs Linux [slashdot.org], X-Windows on Dreamcast [slashdot.org]).
Re:Old news (Score:2, Insightful)
Has anybody actually written such a system? I'm sure there exists lots of MP3 libraries. But has anybody actually bothered to write an user interface for such thing? Like download the ISO, burn it and you're ready to go?
That's worth being on Slashdot.
Re:Old news (Score:2)
But once they do, it will be cool. I wonder if avifile, smpeg, and/or mplayer would work on this thing. Avi support would be rather crippled, but this would be a good, cheap set-top box... I wonder how fast the dreamcast is in a practical sense. At 200 MHz with an unaccelerated framebuffer, I imagine it is quite painful...
Re:Old news (Score:1)
Re:Old news (Score:4, Informative)
It's not terrible, actually, but it isn't great, either.
Hardly important, though, considering the Dreamcast can be plugged into a VGA monitor.
With a Keybaord, a Mouse, and a couple of Gamepads, the Broadband adapter, and a VGA box, the only thing the Dreamcast was missing to take over as a cheap Internet gaming machine was some kind of Hard Drive with a self booting OS. The ZIP drive that was slated for it would have provided just that, but horrid Dreamcast sales put an end to all that.
So instead we get to see the Playstation 2 attempt to take that market, and if you ask me, the Playstation 2 isn't really a much better console and it costs much more than the Dreamcast. (I could go on and on about why the PS2 is a major disappointment but most people reading won't care, and those who do are fanatical Sony Fanboys who will flame me... so blah)
For shame.
Re:Old news (Score:2)
So instead we get to see the Playstation 2 attempt to take that market, and if you ask me, the Playstation 2 isn't really a much better console and it costs much more than the Dreamcast.
Not much better? With built-in USB so you can plug in any old cheap USB keyboard and mouse? And the best controller in console gaming history? And DVD movie playback? I guess you're right, it's not much better than the Dreamcast with proprietary, expensive keyboards and mice, and it's awful, wretchedly designed controller, and lack of DVD support.
Jesus fucking christ, do people expect the PS2 to do their taxes for them? It's graphics are pretty. It's games are fun. Just relax and enjoy. Prices will drop soon enough.
And before anyone gets bent out of shape, I have a Dreamcast. I like it. It's games are also fun. But I utterly hate the fucking controller. If I knew more about electronics I'd solder together some kind of adaptor for my PS dual shock controllers.
(End rant)
Re:Old news (Score:2)
Totally subjective. I still consider the Saturn's NiGHTS controller the best controller in history.
And DVD movie playback?
Poor DVD playback. My Laptop makes a better DVD player.
awful, wretchedly designed controller
Again, subjective. I happen to love the Dreamcast controller. I don't I dislike the Playstation controller, mind you. But again, it's functionally not much better, though perhaps a quite a more ergonomic for some people (not me...)
It's games are fun.
Oh? I've seen few PS2 titles out yet that I've really been interested in. So far for me the PS2 is nothing more than an expensive Playstation 1 emulator. Not that I'm complaining too much about that, but it is sort of a shame that the best reasons to own a Playstation 2 are all Playstation 1 games.
And before anyone gets bent out of shape
I don't get bent out of shape on such things. I'm something of a realist so I stay level headed when discussing these things. Plus, I'm really a gaming whore. It's all good, and while I happen to find great merit in the PS2, I find it to be a great shame that Sony has displaced so much of Sega and Nintendo's market seeing as how they have little show in the way of first party efforts (though Grand Turismo is the lone exception.)
If I knew more about electronics I'd solder together some kind of adaptor for my PS dual shock controllers.
Perhaps you would be interested in either a Bleempad [vstore.com] or Bleempod [vstore.com]. The pad of course is a pad for the dreamcast modeled after the Playstation's. The Bleempod is a straight adapter. Unfortunately, they seem rather hard to come by.
I repeat, though, that controller preferences are subjective. I find that the Playstation controller is a wee bit too small for my hands, and the Dreamcast's just seems to fit better for me (as does the N64's) but I would no more force that opinion on anybody than I would force them to wear my shoes. Everyone's hands are different. I know of many controllers that I love that many people hate, including most of Microsoft's Sidewinder game pads. I personally consider the Sidewinders top-notch, esspecially teh Sindwinder Gamepad Pro. But that's subjective. Totally subjective.
Re:Old news (Score:2)
Thanks for pointing out the Bleem stuff. I'm going to try to track some of them down. Either one would be perfect. The Bleempad actually looks a lot like a third-party PS controller I've got called the "Dual Impact" from Performance. It's actually pretty well-made for third-party stuff.
Re:Old news (Score:1)
However my favourite of all has got to be the Namco Arcade Joystick for PS1. Admittedly it was rubbish for anything but beat-em-ups, but the build quality was wild.
All good comments, the thing is though what really killed off the DC was all the pirates and warez so easily available. Shame as the majority of the games was *so* good. The look on peoples face when seeing Jet Set Radio.....
Hopefully the reinvention of Sega into a dominant software house will one day lead them back into developing consoles and I for one cant wait
Po
Re:Old news (Score:1)
Get a PS2 adapter for your dreamcast, and you can get mice and keyboards for pennies.
And the best controller in console gaming history?
Get a playstation adapter.
And DVD movie playback?
I knew that was coming - why do people always talk about the DVD player? It's a shite player and why use a games console for playing DVDs? When your PS2 dies from over-use, you'll wish you never used the function (aimed in general not at you).
I guess you're right, it's not much better than the Dreamcast with proprietary, expensive keyboards and mice, and it's awful, wretchedly designed controller, and lack of DVD support.
I actually like the dreamcast controller - it's a good shape to grip unlike the playstation one. Perhaps it's because after 5 years of playstation use you've become accustomed to it?
Jesus fucking christ, do people expect the PS2 to do their taxes for them?
No, but you could running Linux on Dreamcast....
It's graphics are pretty. It's games are fun. Just relax and enjoy. Prices will drop soon enough.
But dreamcast is already cheap. This is now, not when it finally comes down in price. A dreamcast is a viable option now!
And before anyone gets bent out of shape, I have a Dreamcast. I like it. It's games are also fun. But I utterly hate the fucking controller. If I knew more about electronics I'd solder together some kind of adaptor for my PS dual shock controllers.
Have a search on Google or try a newsgroup - you'll find the adapters.
DC has VGA 640x480 support as well + other modes (Score:4, Interesting)
I have my DC connected to a flatpanel monitor i picked up from ebay and love it.
Re:Old news (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Old news (Score:1)
Realize Linux/Dreamcast's true purpose (Score:3, Informative)
When Karl Kalleberg and myself started the port at LinuxDC (yes, not the same as the originial .jp port, for reasons I won't go into, but we're all friends now :P), the idea was to provide an embedded Linux system as an alternative for the hobbyist Dreamcast developers instead of the plucky toolkits (libdream, KOS, etc.) that were available. LinuxDC is *designed* to go as close to the metal as possible.
I'm still doing DC kernel hacking, check out the Task Manager on the SF project page for info on what's currently being worked on.
I wouldn't expect you to understand, as you obviously are inhibited from reading in some sort of way, but anyway, the port of Linux to the SuperH processor (to which the LinuxDC port belongs) is very real. Just browse your latest mainline [kernel.org] kernel tree in the arch/sh/ directory for code relating the the DC and other SuperH boards.If there are true kernel hackers, people interested in porting apps, testers, or people who are serious about tinkering with embedded Linux development feel free to stop by linuxdc.org [linuxdc.org]. The developers are usually on #linuxdc on irc.openprojects.net [openprojects.net].
Have fun, and thanks goes to Bill for the well-written article :P.
M. R.
Been Running NetBSD on Mine For a while (Score:5, Interesting)
-Doon
-Running NetBSD on ... (Score:2)
Re:-Running NetBSD on ... (Score:1)
The network stack for the dreamcast has some serious delay.
Something along the lines of 10ms+.
This is due to interrupt problems or somesuch, I'm not certain about the details, I just know it's there.
Re:-Running NetBSD on ... (Score:1)
Re:Been Running NetBSD on Mine For a while (Score:1)
I'm sure if BSD had a cuddely little panda or something for it's logo, it'd do much better
Re:Been Running NetBSD on Mine For a while (Score:2)
You left out that they tested the systems in out-of-the-box configurations.
This result might be of use for occasional users who don't touch the knobs, but has nothing to do with administered environments, where settings are adapted to the local necessities.
It would be interesting to compare these results, with boxes that were tweaked by gurus and by average admins.
Not that I expected a serious posting from you. :)
Ethernet driver? (Score:1)
Also... much more interesting was the report in June e.g.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_
that you can do the same thing on the Playstation. Anyone know how long it'll be before the PS-2 has Linux support? And after that, how long till Sony ban this sort of thing?
Of course, I've never seen a Dreamcast at all - can you plug a keyboard into one of those things? 'cos I'm sure not doing any kernel hacking if I've got to enter letters off a rotating wheel using only left-right cursor movements on a control pad. That gave me enough trouble entering my initials in the arcades?
Re:Ethernet driver? (Score:1)
Re:Ethernet driver? (Score:1)
Re:Ethernet driver? (Score:2)
Re:Ethernet driver? (Score:1)
You can either buy a keyboard as an accessory, or buy a converter for your existing PC keyboard (I'm not so sure if USB is supported though).
The same thing applies for mice.
I'm pretty impressed with the tools out there for Dreamcast development. The fact that Linux can be loaded is interesting, but it doesn't excite me very much. As another poster mentioned, there are other ways of developing for the Dreamcast, and there are already a bunch of apps out there for it, like an mp3 player, video CD player and other cool little toys.
I'm not interested in running Apache or some firewall off the dreamcast, broadband support or not. I'd prefer to just grab a cheap pentium computer (with HARD DRIVE) that sort of general use.
The fact that Linux can run on a Dreamcast is interesting simply because it can be done.
Re:Ethernet driver? (Score:1)
Pack(et) Man (Score:1)
One Useful App (Score:4, Interesting)
Dreamcast+MAME =A cheap arcade emulator with 2000 games. sweet.
Re:One Useful App (Score:1)
Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted.
Huh?
Re:One Useful App (Score:5, Informative)
Many emulators already exist in a self booting stand alone form for the Dreamcast.
One could say that the Dreamcast does not need Linux at all, but that somewhat defeats the whole "Doing it for the sake of doing it" spirit.
Still, This Site [dcemulation.com] is dedicated to Dreamcast specific emulators.
Re:One Useful App (Score:1)
M. R.
Re:One Useful App (Score:1)
Who said that was the only thing running on the Dreamcast? Not I. It does however make an excellent reason to own a Dreamcast.
I personally love the idea of taking up less entertainment center space by using my Dreamcast in place of my SNES and NES. I have many games I adore on those systems but as my console collection continues to grow space continues to become more precious, and having the Dreamcast take over the roll of older systems is a real blessing.
I'm not saying there aren't other great reasons to own a Dreamcast, but Linux and NetBSD don't impress me nearly as much as a CD full of my favorite SNES titles.
It's somewhat illegal to pirate roms of course, but if challenged to provide proof that I have rights to fair use I can always pull out my crate full of over 50 original SNES cartridges, and two broken SNES controllers.
Re:One Useful App (Score:2, Informative)
Re:One Useful App (Score:2)
Anyone know of the feasability of using this with the broadband adapter to hook into your network and pull ROMs from another machine? (just map the shares and let it rip)
Heck, for that matter how about being able to run an MP3 server like this [mp3sb.org] by doing the same thing?
And when you add in the VCD player that's already available for the Dreamcast. All we need is a DIVX player and we're set.
(Now I wonder if all this would actually work?)
:^)
Re:One Useful App (Score:1)
Re:ISO? (Score:1, Funny)
(ISO) A voluntary, nontreaty organisation founded in 1946, responsible for creating international standards in many areas, including computers and communications. Its members are the national standards organisations of 89 countries, including the American National Standards Institute.
ISO produced the OSI seven layer model for network architecture.
The term "ISO" is not actually an acronym for anything. It is a pun on the Greek prefix "iso-", meaning "same". Some ISO documents say ISO is not an acronym even though it is an anagram of the initials of the organisation's name.
what about ps2? (Score:1)
I know sony has already worked it out for the japanese ps2, but you need extra hardware to run it.
What about running it of a cdrom only, yes you'll need to modify the ps2, otherwise it won't recognise the cdrom you put linux on.
Has anyone already done this or is anyone working on it?
Re:what about ps2? (Score:1)
I'm sure... (Score:1)
I'm all for experimentation and exploration but surely in the long run its a bit of a waste.
Do something useful with your creativity.
(Hmmm preaching about wasting time when reading slashdot - Doh!)
Dreamcast is only 79 bucks and 49.00 by christmas (Score:2)
GDROM
24 Megs Ram
6+ mill polys a second
Great Sound
4 controllers, with support for Mouse & Keyboard
Rare Broadband adaptor
Built in modem
New webbrowser with modern features.
dot dot dot (for those who listen to stern)
Re:Dreamcast is only 79 bucks and 49.00 by christm (Score:1)
This is really annoying, because with the distro from m17n.org I tried, I only had about 1.4mb free on bootup. I got infinite swap or something whenever I tried compiling something, so I couldn't really do anything terribly useful.
Hopefully, this one can get the memory trimmed down a bit further.
It's better to play video games outside of youth (Score:1)
I see this "Bill Gatliff" person is trying to get people to use linux on dreamcast instead of xbox...
Why exclude x86? (Score:2)
I'm not sure why you would want to exclude x86 stuff. There's tons of older do-it-all mother boards lying around for next to nothing. Some of them have low enough power requirments, but all of them use hardware that you already own. While it's nice to see so much work going on outside x86, I'd never ignore x86.
I'm waiting for systems like Agenda to get cheaper and less NDA burdened.
Re:Why exclude x86? (Score:2)
If you are running a non-x86 setup, you have to have everything properly configured before anything useful happens. That's important when, in your "day job", you'll be running Linux on a custom SH-4 board, ARM, or whatever. From this perspective, being in command of an x86 system can be a false sense of security.
b.g.
The Gaming Chips... (Score:2, Interesting)
chips there are inside the DC, and whether
drivers exist for them?
Maybe not a good thing (Score:2)
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:1)
I mean, these companies make money off software license sales, and often lose money on the hardware.
Anything which forces the world to abandon this business model is (IMHO) a good thing.
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:1)
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:1)
Basically I want to buy the things I think are a good deal, at the price they are sold at (or lower...
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:2)
If companies priced the hardware so that they could turn a profit on it, it would rival the price of a personal computer and lots of people wouldn't bother.
But they want a profit somewhere along the line, and so the consumer pays somewhere. If console makers charged a fair price for the hardware, they could get thier sweaty little mits off the software market.
Developers would not have to go cap in hand to the hardware people for permission to sell a game, they would just do it.
What scope is there for a group of spare time programmers to produce a console game? None, independent programmers who just want to make a simple little game and sell it for ten quid would not produce enough revenue for Sony/Sega/whatever, and the last thing they want is something actually creative. It may draw attention away from thier latest whizz-bang yet-another-template game.
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:2)
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:1)
Re:Maybe not a good thing (Score:1)
I just put Linux in my toaster (Score:2, Funny)
There's geeking out, and there's this... (Score:1)
I feel very sorry for you. Get out of your "Perl Kodin'
CD Images (Score:3, Informative)
Note that I am also so lazy that I haven't downloaded said image, or even gotten around to fixing my broken dreamcast.
-Puk
Re:CD Images (Score:1)
That "demo" has very little hardware support, and is from Summer 2000 (or before).
Real Linux/Dreamcast distributions (e.g. Debian) are currently in the works.
M. R.
More memory (Score:1)
Linux on Dreamcas (Score:1)
If anyone has a broadband adapter, consider loaning/selling it to someone who is trying this (like me).
Re:How VA Japan says it: (Score:1)
Japanese has a perfectly good "hard" G sound: fS. And it has a "T", too, fg. And a fr. I think you're thinking of the whole L-R thing.
If you're going to make fun of something, at least do it right.
IHBT. IHL. HAND...I know, I know.
GTRacer
Will speak Nihongo someday...
Re:How VA Japan says it: (Score:2)
Just make sure it's an OLD dreamcast... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Just make sure it's an OLD dreamcast... (Score:2)
Re:Just make sure it's an OLD dreamcast... (Score:2)
Some info ..., (Score:4, Informative)
Some people are too lazy to follow the link to see the Dreamcasts tech specs, so here is the condensed version:
Hitachi SH4 @ 200MHz
8MB NEC PowerVR2 Gfx
2MB Yamaha Audio
12x GD/CD Drive
16MB System RAM
56k Modem Included (US Model)
Also there is some confusion as to pricing. In the US the Dreamcast's MSRP is $79.95 and many stores are selling for less than that to clear out remaining stock.
As for Input, the Dreamcast has 4 controller ports and a Keyboard and Mouse are available through standard game outlets. So you couild have Keyboard, mouse, and even a gamepad plugged in (xmame
As for burning (and people having trouble doing so). Burning a bootable DC CDR can be tricky, any mistake WILL result in a coaster. There are several good dreamcast burning guides around at sites like http://www.boob.co.uk and http://mc.pp.se/dc/
Also despite rumors to the contrary, there are NO US or European Dreamcast's that won't boot CDR's. Sega only released 2 units in Japan ( The Sakura Tisen LE DC and the Hello Kitty DC) that won't boot CDR's. They had originaly wanted to do the same for the US, but Sega stopped production of the Dreamcast before this could be implemented.
Other than linux, there is also a Dremcast port of NetBSD (and indeed, this port seems to be more active than the linux port). Details @ http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ .
Dan Potter has also made a homebrew Dreamcast/GBA Operating System / development library called KallistiOs (KOS) which is completly open source and well documented, which can be found at http://dcdev.allusion.net.
Hope this is usefull to someone !
Linux on DC has been around for quite a while. (Score:1)
security features (Score:1)
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:2, Informative)
If you want to develop software for the Dreamcast, use KOS [sourceforge.net], which is a free development system, much better suited to the task than Linux. Similar systems exist for almost every proprietary platform (I know of a C compiler for the gameboy...)
Porting from the PC to console will never be easy anyway. Consider input methods. Most PC games use the mouse, with a lot of keyboard shortcuts. That won't work on a console.
Many PC games also assume a specific display resulotion. If the Dreamcast has less, you've got problems. (And the resolution of a TV ain't great.)
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:1)
Many PC games also assume a specific display resolution. If the Dreamcast has less, you've got problems. (And the resolution of a TV ain't great.)"
Hardly the most difficult of problems to circumvent - especially when you consider the portability that is achieved.
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:1, Informative)
Porting from the PC to console will never be easy anyway. Consider input methods. Most PC games use the mouse, with a lot of keyboard shortcuts. That won't work on a console.
This is very true but lucky for all us; the nice men at sega made a nice mouse and keyboard [sega.com]
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:1)
It's pathetic how you seem so hellbent on providing advice and bashing something you haven't even had the courage to read a couple of websites about.
M. R.
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:2)
(Not only could I feed my addiction in the computer room, I could feed it in the living room too! Woo-hoo!)
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:2)
WOW! So 5 developers receive a salary of two dollars for their trouble?
Recheck your facts there, chief. A lot more than five people go into the making of a game.
Re:Why this is cool. (Score:2)
Only if you consider it to be $3+$10 per copy sold does the comment make sense - and at that I would consider the material cost fairly high. I have seen prices of a few cents per copy for a large "pressed" CD run, and I doubt the box and little booklet would be that expensive.
Stealing comments isn't cool! (Score:2, Informative)
Neither is stealing old stories!!! (Score:1)