Linus Talks About 2.4 180
Platinum Dragon writes: "ZDnet ran an e-mail-based
interview with Linus about that new kernel thingy. Linus replied to the fluff questions in typical self-mocking Linus fashion. " Check out original story on the release as well -- many people seem to have missed it, and keep submitting it.
2.5 wishlist (Score:1)
Re:2.4 *was* vapourware for all of 2000 (Score:1)
Pardon? I had a beta of NT5 (Alpha and x86) from MSDN long before W2K was released. At the end, they just changed the name to Windows 2000. It was late, just like 2.4. Explain the difference between those two products and how the term vaporware fits them.
I'm going with the Wired definition. Apple produced Copland way back and a few people had it but then it never shipped. I count that as vaporware. And I also stand ready to call Mac OS X missing in action at the end of January.
Software developers routinely miss ship dates. The disappointing thing is when they don't even have the courtesy to update their estimates as the inevitable approaches. Journalists SHOULD call them on it. It's the only way you have to put pressure on the developers to create more realistic promises and to live up to them.
-Derek
Re:2.4 *was* vapourware for all of 2000 (Score:1)
/. mention (Score:1)
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If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
Re:People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:1)
Sorry, the sarcasm key was stuck...
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If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
Re:People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:1)
While true I myself (a non coder) can say Linus is God, you'll find that the other Linux gods (AC, TT, AA, etc) are quick to argue if they don't like the way things are done.
Their opinions matter, fucking BIG COMPANIES can go screw. If you can understand kernel internals you get an opinion that Linus will respect even if he choses not too implement. "Interested parties" is another word for groupies more concerned with buzzwords then code.
Aren't I all piss and vinegar tonight?
kashani
Re:People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:1)
Enh.
"[...] other major commercial projects [...]" That's where I think you went off track. This isn't a major commercial project. It's not a democracy. It's Linus's baby, plain and simple. Everyone's been throwing their help into it... Everyone's been benefiting. But in the end, the 'Linu' in 'GNU/Linux' comes from 'Linus'. Should RedHat fall off the planet and Caldera vanish, Linux will still be there.
At the end of the day, he was the right man with the right project at the right time, but just because he decided to give his project to the world doesn't mean everyone else automatically has a say in what's officially Linux.
-kapella
Re:You call that an interview? (Score:1)
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seumas.com
Re:Wireds Vaporware article is pure crap. (Score:1)
If any publication considers themselve to be the mitigating factor in Linus' release dates, they need to check their ego, methinks.
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seumas.com
Re:I'd Rather See... (Score:1)
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seumas.com
Re:Hmm... maybe you should check first (Score:1)
Maybe this appeared on Slashdot when I wasn't looking, but if not then I guess you are the one looking like an imbecile for actually browsing Wired on your own. Blech.
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seumas.com
Re:These questions are awful! (Score:1)
No OS is user friendly. A *shell* can be user friendly (and there a couple for Linux that are) but a shell isn't the OS. Other than this, your post is good.
Wireds Vaporware article is pure crap. (Score:1)
Vaporware is a rumor of software or upgrade that never makes it. Beta or spot releases are not Vaporware.
Wired never did the right thing and apologize, they just congratulate themselves for being a good motivator.
What is with this 5 minute stories on wired? They are nothing but re-capped press releases. I should get bunch of college kids and recap everyones press releases.
Opps, Wired beat me too it...
"The function of the press in society is to inform, but its role in society is to make money." -A. J. Liebling, The Press, 1961
Re:2.4 *was* vapourware for all of 2000 (Score:1)
Vaporware is something that doesn't exist, sometimes (okay, my paranoia says 'most of the time' in the case of one specific company) it is only a marketing concept without a single bit of code.
When talking about an open-source project in which the source is open all the way through the development traject, you can hardly talk about vaporware. So it had a -test tag attached to its version number.. I've had it running quite well since the 2.3.99pre releases and although much was changed in the implementation, the only thing I've noticed is a few bugs disappearing and sometimes a slight speed increase.
Erwin
Re:No plans for the future.. (Score:1)
The wording "I don't even want to plan 2.5.x or 3.0 at this point yet." may scare those who take that to mean "I don't have any plans for future", of course. It could, of course, mean that Linus doesn't want to write the roadmap for the next release until he's taken a break and seen that 2.4 is stable and works well. Not just on 10000 developer workstations, but on a couple of million other computers, too.
Now, as Linus stated in the interview, he's not making press releases or alike. That's for companies to do. He's not talking with soothing voice, treating the IT managers like babies scared of dark who need mommy and papa to check that there are no grues under the bed. He's talking like a developer who's got one project released and can take a short break not needing to think about work for a few days.
I would of course also hope that there aren't all that many "IT manager morons" in important positions.
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:1)
You're in luck, there are already action figures [geekculture.com] for Linux, Woz, maddog, Larry Wall, and others. Nitrozac [nitrozac.com]'s way ahead of you.
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Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:1)
Ba DUM dum
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:1)
Now with TURBO KARATE ACTION!!
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No he's not.. I am.... (Score:1)
Thats your preception alone.. To me the reporter comes off a bit umm disintrested.. In the end my impression is ZD just asigned a random reporter and he asked some kiss up questions and expected some kiss up replys.. Linus dosn't play that...
>talking back to the interviewer, and having a massive ego.
You get asked the same 3 questions by 1,000 droolly reporters and see if you don't a. Start having a massive ego, b. Don't start talking back...
It's accually remarkable how Linus hasn't let his ego explode...
> This really makes Linus look back,
(He means "look bad"... I'm a lot worse than this guy when it comes to this sort of thing...)
In my view Linus is in a space where it dosn't matter what he says...
If he says "My ship is full of eels" some will find something insightful and prase worthy and others will dream up some mental illness and attribute the comment to it..
Re:You're right (Score:1)
[The scary part however is the main compiler people use.. GCC.. is effectively in the hands of RedHat...]
Are there any decompilers for Linux that might be used to catch this sort of thing?
Re:You're right (Score:1)
Accually there are sevral... Some Dos shareware.. and three forks of GCC (that I am aware of)..
Then there is the BSD C compiler...
But focusing only on Unix compilers.. Get an account on a Sun Sparc or some other liccensed Unix system and run a clean GCC compile on that... then do it again as a cross compile...
The real issue for me isn't "We could" yeah yeah yeah... will we... Most likely no...
The source code being available means we know Linus (and his people) didn't insert a trojen.. Right?
Well no we don't becouse as a rule we don't review the code...
However we can trust that Linus probably didn't becouse he couldn't cover it up if someone bothered to look.
But if he ever got cocky... There are people who try to rob the store in broud daylight AFTER showing ID...
What am I getting at?
Well in the past we thought it was a reasonable assmption that a commertal pacage didn't contain a back door.. we know better now... It's just to easy to cover up...
We do know that it's reasonably likely there are no trojens in Linux... not 100%... only 99.44% sure... the rest is that little uncertenly that RMS may have inserted a trojen from the start.. or Sun slipped something into Solarus to infect GCC... or that RedHat is shipping infected binarys...
Or a massive conspericy between AT&T, RedHat, Sun, IBM, the FSF, the NIS, the Illuminati, NSI, CmdrTacos GF, and my pet dog...
There are things you could do to be absolutly safe..
Well accually no... not even that.. becouse if you really want to be paranoid.. we could be in a matrix.. I mean a trojen in the laws of phisics isn't something you can decompile... Enter "The Matrix"
Anyway... it's a lot less likely...
But if Intel wanted to they could just infect the CPU with something like User ID...
Linus is right.. nothing earth shattering... just booring dull zzzzzz....
what a card (Score:1)
Re:alternatively (Score:1)
um.. no. if they have public betas that show they have progressed toward the goal they have stated, then i dont believe it would be ok for people to label that as vapour. just like when they posted the story about ms getting the 5 billion dollar lawsuit placed against them i didnt say: "hey i dont agree with it but since its microsoft i'll let it slide". just because i prefer linux doesnt mean i think special rules apply. for the record i used nt for along time before switching to linux. i found 3.51 to be very stable. after ms made the move to 4.0 it got alot worse so i swtiched to linux. but i digress.
these people aren't the press. they are more like jerry springer or some other talk show.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
alternatively (Score:1)
1)an editor for wired
2)redifines terms to make article seme sensationalistic
does that mean that i can publically slander the editors of wired because they fit my personal defination of what i consider a wife beater to be?
the wired article clearly showed that they had nothing better to do but bash people who are working hard on a project, many for free, that has been realized for many months.
if the wired editors were real journalists they would be more responsible. alas most of the real journalists are falling the way side because sensationalism is more important that facts/news.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:1)
You should have thought of that before he got a mortgage and a couple of kids. Not cheap.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:That was a joke, right? (Score:1)
That isn't one of them. :-)
Re:Gotta love MS. (Score:1)
Re:If you get a chance... (Score:1)
Re:If you want that feature, whey not do it yourse (Score:1)
I dunno about Linus, but a Stephen Hawkings action figure would kick some serious ass.
Yikes (Score:1)
I read the first question as, "Is your OS half as good as your competitors'?" Come on. This is like asking Pepsi if their soft drinks taste "somewhat as good" than Coke's. What do you expect them to say? "No, our drinks suck?"
Personally, I think this interview was very poorly done. The first question is really two questions, and only the second question is relevant. The first question should have been omitted completely.
I will agree with you that, "What advantages does Linux have over competitors?" is a valid question, but not, "Why would anybody use your cruddy OS when they can use Windows 2000 or another UNIX?" which is basically what the interview said.
Nice. (Score:2)
modprobe (Score:2)
Okay, odd. My 2.4test kernel doesn't have a CHANGES file (but then, I'm not using 2.4 yet -- LVM 0.9, which is really unstable, was added late in the production cycle; a definite bad move, that. The fixed version will hopefully be added in 2.4.1 -- I'm not using it 'till then). In any event, it's documented. Somewhere.
Re:People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:2)
The more people who are involved in making a decision, the longer it takes to make that decision. Designing/coding/maintaining by committee just simply doesn't work... what you need instead is a team of people with similar goals/motivations who have different but overlapping skill sets making a concerted effort to reach those goals and managed by someone with a bird's eye view of where the whole thing is going.
It's also worth mentioning that if Linus stands in the way of something, people have a tendency to route around him. It's his kernel, so he gets final say on what goes into it before it gets put up on ftp.kernel.org, but if you bother to take a look the source for the kernels shipped by various Linux distributions you'll notice that they have added in a lot of stuff that Linus rejected. A prime example would be SuSE's inclusion of reiserfs into their kernel. Or Debian including pcmcia-cs into theirs. Or RedHat using the software RAID patches. And so on....
And there's the power of free software for ya.
Re:I'd Rather See... (Score:2)
Popping out a sham release every 18 months like Microsoft, just to keep your name fresh in people's mind and earning a few extra bucks is fine for some, but it has nothing to do with an actual programming cycle.
Wired is to the technical industry what Cosmo and Family Circle are to the financial market.
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seumas.com
Re:No plans for the future.. (Score:2)
I guess I don't understand how a PHB would be able to develop concern over a "kernel" or even comprehend the concept of a "kernel" developer comment.
I think it more likely that a PHB would be sold on a distribution (and for lack of a better example) like RH4.2 Then he was sold on 5.2... then 6.2... and maybe just maybe on 7.0
Just tell him that you will be running 7.2 "soon" and not to worry about the 2.4 since it easier to keep up with the distribution numbers.
I expect that all vendors will move to the Sun-esque single rev numbers like 7, 8, 9, 10 etc... which is perfect for PHB's. You can hold up fingers to show what you are running. They like that.
So, the only thing "fluffy" is, perhaps, you calling someone concerned with kernel development comments (from a leader of kernel development) a PHB.
:)
Re:If you get a chance... (Score:2)
Their lives aren't, but their livelihoods are. There are many people who only know MS stuff, they don't care about open source, no central control, yada yada yada... It's the same kind of analogy when the automotive manufacturers brought in robots to assemble cars. All the workers thought they were going to be replaced, that they wouldn't be able to work anymore. Some of the people did adapt perfectly and are happier now. Some probably didn't do so well. There is always Fear when change is imminent.
Re:Seriously version-number happy (Score:2)
But what he was saying was the he did NOT have plans for a 2.5 or 3.0 yet. That says to me that either there will be a 2.5 or perhaps there will be such significant changes to warrant a 3.0. But, as of now, he hasn't even started thinking about it.
When Sun went from Solaris 2.6 to Solaris 7, one of their reasons was that they never ever had any plans to make anything that would be called Solaris 3, and the "2." was therefore just redundant. Linus, OTOH, has not yet ruled out significant changes for a 3.0.
Wait until you see what is discussed for a 3.0 release (if any) before you start worrying too much.
Re:Seriously version-number happy (Score:2)
Linux jumped from the 1.3 dev kernel to 2.0 because there was a large conceptual difference. Since then it went 2.1->2.2 & 2.3->2.4. If 2.5 has some revolutionary new concepts, Linus might decide to call it 3.0 when it gets stable. If it's mostly just an evolutionary step-up from 2.4, he'll probably call the stable release 2.6.
Here are examples of some screwed up software versioning:
NT's first release was 3.1, then 3.5x, 4.0 (+many service packs), then 2000.
Windows: 1, 2, 3.x, 95x, 98, 98SE, Me.
Word:
Excel:
Access: 1, 2, 7, 8, 2000.
PowerPoint:
AutoCAD: 1.0-1.4, 2.0-2.6, 9-14, 2000, 16.
Solaris:
Re:If you want that feature, whey not do it yourse (Score:2)
LinuxMall [linuxmall.com], Linux Central [linuxcentral.com], Cheap Bytes [cheapbytes.com] or some other Linux retailer could get them made & sell them. They all sell stuffed Tux dolls already.
Or maybe a co-op buy like the Webplayer Co-op [egroups.com] could work.
Re:Nice. (Score:2)
Remember, in 1999 IDC found that Linux market share increased from 16% to 25% over 1999 while NT remained stable at 38%. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that at this growth rate Linux will be ruling the roost in a few years. Will that actually happen? Who knows. I personally can't wait to see the 2000 numbers. Also keep in mind that these numbers are actual shipments. While it probably acurately reflects the number of new NT installations, there are almost certainly several Linux installs per shipment.
Fighting for survival (Score:2)
No, we're discussing something far more important to the people involved: for those who had thought they had made a safe decision sometime in the last 5 - 10 years to devote their careers to using and learning about Microsoft software, the astonishing rise in popularity of Linux can be incredibly threatening. I don't recall much from the Advocacy HOWTO myself (although I did read it once upon a time), but if it doesn't already, it should probably include some information on the psychology of people who feel that their entire way of life may be threatened. The ZDNet Talkback should be proof enough that this is what some people are feeling.
The problem with Linux, from the point of view of an unreconstructed Windows devotee, is not just that it's a competing software system, but that it represents so many unfamiliar ideas: open source software, lack of strong central control by one big Corporation You Can Trust (TM), and just in general a mode of existence that is like antimatter to Windows' matter, or vice versa. Again, the ZDNet talkback provides ample evidence of the misapprehensions that so many people labor under, most of which arise from having absolutely no understanding of the basic concepts which make Linux useful and successful.
Until Linux either utterly destroys Windows, or settles into a stable market share so that it's no longer perceived as such a threat, this will continue to be one of the most religious of all software wars.
Re:Then change. (Score:2)
There are also valid reasons for resistance to change: change has a cost, you have to spend time learning, making mistakes, rearranging the neurons in your brain. It doesn't make sense to do this without good reason. As you say, this often isn't as big of an issue for the real geeks, who enjoy learning. But we all make decisions on what we are or aren't going to learn about and become familiar with: OSes, languages, applications, etc.
So how are worthwhile changes communicated to other people? Hype. To overcome the barriers we have against change, the change must be presented as the greatest thing since sliced bread. It should preferably not just involve new features, but represent a fundamentally different paradigm that's going to solve problems that we never knew existed. Arguably, Linux and other open source systems fit this description, so is worthy of at least some of the hype surrounding it. However, any group of people trying to promote their pet project uses similar hype, so people have developed defenses against it. The first reaction to hype, except amongst the exceedingly gullible, is usually to assume it's exaggerated.
So in addition to the people afraid of change, you get those who, while perfectly capable of changing, honestly aren't convinced there's a reason to learn this new thing. They discount the hype. But in doing this, they necessarily become very partisan - they have to defend the system they already know, against the newcomer, underscoring "their" system's good points, minimizing the bad, and doing the reverse for the competitor. This creates a mindset which can be very difficult to change.
The solution? Penguins! Millions of penguins! We'll dispatch them to all corners of the globe, and have them peck at the MCSEs until they give in! Submit, worthless MCSE! Submit, or I will peck you as if you were a herring!
(Sorry, I got tired of trying to construct a serious argument...)
Re:I was told that kde heavily uses X11 (Score:2)
See:
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Evan
using it now.... (Score:2)
Now I wish I actually had USB peripherals to test with... I typically have stayed away from buying them because of linux...
Re:You forgot RMS. (Score:2)
RMS is a revolutionary. And quite the ass. I've never seen someone quite as picky about semantics as he is (have you ever seen the exchange between the CrystalSpace developers and him? They never got to the point because he was too busy pointing out that he could only talk about free software...). Communication with him seems to be practially impossible.
Plus, he sucks at singing [jwz.org].
What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:2)
-Restil
Appropriate Questions (Score:2)
This is not one of them.
Linus uses his own brand of humor to take the interviewer to task for following a formulaic press release format. "With questions like that, how are you ever going to write an interesting article?", he laments. He's right. This has already been done. But nevertheless, Linus does give in a bit eventually but skips many of the details. "Where it matters is obviously the technology, and there's a lot of updates. Somebody has made a list of what changed since 2.2.x, but as I haven't used a 2.2.x kernel in a long time, I forget myself."
So why is Linus being so standoffish? There's another telling quote. "I didn't make a press release. I made something quotable instead, and I'll leave the real press releases to the companies and other interested parties. Maybe we'll even see a journalist that makes a story that isn't based on a press-release, but on his or her own digging and ruminations." Linus has already chosen to avoid the press release - and he stands his ground here. Furthermore, he throws down the gauntlet and challenges writers to write an article that isn't just a press release re-hash.
A tech trade article. Based on actual research. Wouldn't that be something?
Re:Framebuffer - OT (Score:2)
Re:Framebuffer - OT (Score:2)
Times are changing (Score:2)
2.4 *was* vapourware for all of 2000 (Score:2)
1) Was the product eagerly anticipated during the past year
2) did it fail to appear during that year.
2.4 kernel meets them. Admittedly the original article could have said that a release seemed immmanent at the end of 2000, but it is *not* "talking out of your ass"
No precise plans for the next release (Score:2)
People want to start doing wild and crazy things immediately, when the reality is that for a few months we just need to take it calm and make sure that everything is in its place. I don't even want to plan 2.5.x or 3.0 at this point yet.
I understand this to mean that he doesn't yet intend to plan about the specifics about the next release. He prefers to let things settle down a bit, rather than rushing towards the next target immediately. Don't worry, there will be a next release, it will just take a while before that 2.5 branch will be started.
Use the Forks Luke (Score:2)
Besides (and correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't things like ucLinux be considered forks? Or to a lesser extent, the bad RAM or ReiserFS patches?
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:2)
Never mind Linus, his wife is probably in MUCH better shape (and already has the skills necessary to kick butt :)
I knew it! (Score:2)
for years no one believed my claims that slashdot was part of the linux conspiracy, but now ZDNet [zdnet.com], the most reliable IT news service on earth have confirmed my suspicions!
Why ? Because he is a finn, thats why! (Score:2)
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Let's make a wishlist (Score:2)
Bluetooth support.
More security patches (maybe a new menu to specify your own security policy, and have that configure your firewall etc?)
Built-in pacman game.
Recode of some old unit.
Tool for selecting modules from online repository.
Moving support for really old stuff into module-only land. See prev proposal.
And a lot of things I haven't thought of yet.. Anyone got more ideas?
Why do I feel somehow let down? (Score:2)
Anyway, like I was saying... there's just something not right. After waiting all this time, climbing over and through dozens and dozens of 'unstable' releases, dealing with uncounted issues to fix- and now *poof* it's done. There are no unstable releases left. It's just *there*. Sure, there are the -ac builds already, but those are even stable. None of the changes seem to affect me. I'm almost to the point now where I want to break something just so I have something to do!
Am I nuts? Someone just tell me I'm nuts, and I'll go away.
Re:You forgot RMS. (Score:2)
-"The Gimp Girl"
Re:These questions are awful! (Score:2)
Thanks for the idea for my first the bench [thebench.org] :)
Re:2.4 *was* vapourware for all of 2000 (Score:2)
I always thought of vapor as a whiff of smoke or something barely tangible. As applied to a software product announcement, I think of a statement that makes it sound as if the software already exists or is pretty much certain to be delivered within a set timeframe.
NT5 was vapor. 2.4 that had had lots of publicly realeased test versions was certainly not vapor by any reasonable measure.
Listing two criteria (eager anticipation, failure to appear before 12/31/2000) for calling something varourware as justification (by wired) for writing a fact-free, bullshit article reeks of incompetent, headline-grabbing journalism. "Talking out your ass" does not seem overly harsh to describe this, IMO.
Or maybe it is vapourware and I just dreamed that I've been running a 2.4 kernel on one of my test boxes for a good part of the year.
Re:No plans for the future.. (Score:2)
That being:
More USB devices
More multimedia devices
Firewire
DevFS
RiserFS (soon to be incorporated into the kernel)
HFS(+)
NTFS stuff
etc.
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Re:If you get a chance... (Score:2)
Whilst all this was going on, my then employer was reluctant to invest serious money in either quality training or equipment - even as late as the end of 1998 test equipment was still 486 machines with 16MB of RAM. I was a resource too good to lose, yet I wasn't given the opportunity to learn new skills except in my own time outside work, which I dedicated to Linux, of course. When the inevitable collapse of our supplier occurred, I had no recognised other skills to fall back on.
Unfortunatly Linux take up in the UK is still pretty slim, except in the ISP market. The PHBs are driven too much by the power of marketing, and not by the substance of the product. (The same is also affecting our political system). I've decided to get out of IT altogether, and have some other positions in the pipeline.
Re:If you get a chance... (Score:2)
Name: Tom Seiler
Email: tommmmmm79@hotmail.com
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Occupation: webmaster
Linus, instead of wasting your time trying to improve your toy operating system why don't you write some applications?
Your operating system is basically worthless without programs to run. Of course I realize if there actually were programs to run on Linux then it might crash.
It is not the operating system that is the point of computing, it is the programs. Too bad the Linux fools don't realize that.
Wow, that's a troll that would put the first-posters here on Slashdot to shame :)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Linux kernel 2.5 wishlist? (Score:2)
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Re:You're right (Score:2)
Nevertheless, the advantage of open source in terms of "source code cleanliness" (i.e. no gotchas or backdoors) is that you don't have to put your trust in one individual or corporation. Nobody knows the MS Windows source code except MS, but everybody can look at the linux source code, and it only takes one whistleblower saying "look at this, this is NOT right!" to bring everybody's attention to a problem.
Linus says... (Score:2)
Re:These questions are awful! (Score:2)
Don't blame the OS for it's lack of hardware support. Blame hardware manufacturers that don't release the device specifications. I remember Linux when it had about as much hardware support at QNX had last year. It's gotten a lot better, because people have written drivers based in the harware specs, or have taken the time to reverse-engineer closed-spec devices with a high enough demand for support. I'm not arguing against your entire point (and in fact, I agree with most of what you said), I'm just pointing out a common fallacy in judgement that plagues the Free OS world in general.
Can you say "Mindcraft" and sun (Score:3)
The only reason its smooth as butter is the previous version sucked when it came to i/o and disk buffering. Mindcraft and Microsoft pointed the fault and pissed off alot of Linus's followers and even Linus himself was in denial.
He decided to rewrite 2.4 and put a bold and brand new i/o, disk buffering, and networking code that originally were all orignally not planned.
The result is that we have a very fast high end unix that can theoritically scale to 16 processors! The previous version had trouble with only 4 and also with more then 1 nic card. All mission critical serers have several nic cards and mindcraft/microsoft showed that 2.2 was only engineered with the dekstop in mind. This critism showed Linus that his pc o/s needed major server enchancments.
Well I look forward to the next mindcraft test which they promised to redo.
Linus is also more aware of Solaris and AIX as he wants linux to compete agasin't them. He has plenty of critism today form outside the Linux community and from private firms who benchmark Linux.
It's about time! (Score:3)
False assumptions (Score:3)
Second, you assume that Linux is "supposed to be a democracy". Since when? It started as Linus' project, and the way things tend to work in an open development community, whoever starts the project generally retains the lead and the power to rule by fiat if necessary. If you don't like it, fork.
Which brings us to your (not sequentially) third assumption, which is that such a system will inevitably lead to major forks. This is not the case, especially when the project lead is as respected (and with good reason) as Linus, or when the project is as identified with its leader as Linux is with Linus. It would *not* be a healthy decision for a Linux distributor to fork the kernel, and everyone knows it, and nobody really wants to anyway.
I'd Rather See... (Score:3)
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seumas.com
next stable version will be 3.0? (Score:3)
it almost sounds from that last comment he made ("I don't even want to plan 2.5.x or 3.0 at this point yet.") that he intends to make the next stable release be 3.0 instead of 2.6.
Here's your response (Score:3)
Regarding your concern about the "lack of future plans" for the linux kernel, you should understand you have 2 options. First, you can bring in proprietary vendors, ask them what their future plans are, pick the one that most closely matches where you want our company to go, commit to it and pray fervently that the vendor does what they say they will. Or, you can support open source participation by your employees, perhaps even hire a few more, and encourage, even direct, them to get involved and submit code that allows linux to support your own future plans. The first option is politically safe, since you transfer all blame for the risk to the vendor, but technically risky since their plans may not be realized the way we need. The second option is politically risky, since it requires you to take responsibility for the technical future of our company, but technically safe because we have the code and can make it do exactly what we need. Moreover, if others outside our company agree with our assesment of the future, they will provide free labor to help us achieve our goals.
Also understand that right now, most of our competition is likely to be taking the first option. If we choose the second option before any of our competitors do, our voice; e.g. our code; will be submitted before theirs increasing the likelihood of our guiding the technology towards our goals. Participating in open source development will transform our information organization from an off-the-shelf support organization to a driving force behind achieving our corporate objectives.
Your devoted and loyal subject^W employee.
Re:No plans for the future.. (Score:3)
This is a trajedy of wording. Ever other operating system is considered the whole system---Mac, Windows, also Sun, HP, and all them other Unix systems I've only read about---they all consider the operating system the hardware access, drivers, graphical user interface, all the way up to your basic utilities and applications.
Yet part of us in the free software world insist on calling the operating system "Linux". So when we get a new version of Linux, what do we have? Improvements in Bash? themes in KDE? better installation?
No, we just get a better kernal (kernel...kernal...I don know).
So just let that PHB know that, actually there are lots of plans for the next operating system (look at the new versions of GNOME, KDE, Apache, Red Hat, Debian, etc., and their "The Road Ahead" announcements). Its just that they have little to do with Linux. Or they have everything to do with Linux. I guess it depends what you mean by "Linux"...
So don't blame the PHB. Blame whoever came up with this absurd naming scheme in the first place.
If you get a chance... (Score:3)
I found the anti-Linux/Linus shots even more vicious than usual, in between shots from people who haven't read the Advocacy HOWTO (guilty). I swear, there are about five reasonable, well thought-out posts, total. It's just unbelievable; you'd think these people's lives were threatened by Linux or something. I mean, shit, it's only a kernel with an OS built around it, it's not as if we're discussing the Middle East or something.
Also if you get the chance, take a look at 2.4.0; I've been running it since the night it appeared (probably one of the first people to get and compile it), and it's been smooth sailing. 'Course, now that a wider audience is poking at it, more bugs and problems will be smoked out, but the last few tests and the prerelease seemed pretty darn stable. Worth a look if you're up for resetting your precious uptime:)
Re:People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:3)
Yes, people do look up to Linus - but IMHO he's a better "role model" than some movie or sports personality. He's managed to co-ordinate an industry-changing project. Linus isn't perfect, he admits that himself, and some people do get a bit excited sometimes, but that's hardly his fault. I'm not aware of him having any problems accepting valid criticism.
Also, Linux isn't a democracy - it's a meritocracy. The people who are listened to and respected are those who have earned it - they've made a contribution to the project.
If Linux development was a democracy (as we typically understand the word), we'd have a situation where there are a lot of vocal people, with very little work being done. I'm not a kernel developer, and my knowledge pales into insignificance compared with some of those who work on the kernel. However, I am a keen Linux advocate and Unix user. How would people like me making suggestions such as "I think the kernel should be rewritten to be a microkernel, in an object oriented lanuage like Java"? I can spout buzzwords as well as the next person, but it doesn't mean my voice should carry equal weight to someone like Linus or Alan who really understand what they're talking about.
I say maintain the meritocracy. Big companies such as Red Hat, and organisations like Debian and LUGs help steer the development of Linux by coding, not discussing things in a committee. Better that way, no?
Linus about Linux 2.4 (Score:3)
Face it, "Home and Garden" is probably more interesting.
-- Linus Torvalds
Framebuffer (Score:3)
Re:Framebuffer - OT (Score:3)
Seriously version-number happy (Score:3)
I was surprised and a bit worried when I read Linus saying that about 3.0. Why is it that nearly every software product in the last half-decade has a version sequence like this:
x.0
x.1
x.2
x.3
(x+1).0
(x+1).1
(x+1).5
(x+2).0
(x+3).0
(x+4).0
Folks, I remember running the 1.x kernel series. The 2.x introduced some major changes, and we were thrilled to get it. But I haven't heard what new things could require (or deserve) a jump to 3.x.
I'm just seriously looking forward to 2.4.1. :-)
If you want that feature, whey not do it yourself? (Score:3)
I have to take the role of the Slashdot troll [usually moderated up, but still a vapid and stupid response] and say if you want this particular feature, you'll have to do it yourself [andgor.com] .
You'll need a series of Linus mug shots to subm,it to have the figure made, but thee should be easily acquired from any recent version of Wired, Linux Magazine, etc.
Re:You forgot RMS. (Score:3)
Some of my close friends on a linux IRC channel (check my user info) suggested that I send this link [chienworks.com] via email to folks like Alan Cox & his wife Telsa Gwynne; ESR; and RMS and the like. (For those who are wondering, it's some of my best GIMP artwork--feel free to check the link and give me feedback!
Mr. Cox actually replied and said it was neat, in, like, three words. I actually had some degree of correspondence with Telsa (she's AWESOME. She liked it.)
RMS had a problem with it, though. Sheez. He was displeased because, in the picture [chienworks.com], a grinning GNU is a "reindeer" for a "Santa Tux". He probably didn't much like the idea of the GNU project tugging Linux along like a dumb pack animal--it could be construed. "Use of the term 'Linux Distro' for referring to the GNU/Linux system suggests you have never heard the real history...Usual confusion," he wrote.
The GNU isn't a PACK animal. (You need to see the picture [chienworks.com] in order to figure out what I'm talking about.) He's aiding and abetting the penguin, and they're both HAPPY. They're helping EACH OTHER. I thought it was cute. Geez.
I thought of creating a muscle-bound, hugely impressive, and more or less completely spiteful Santa GNU with important Open Source free software for all the world, but my channel made me think better of it. They told me I couldn't talk down Mr. Stallman.
Oh well. This is offtopic.
Yes. Let Mr. Torvalds joke about himself. I think it shows he's a perfectly healthy normal geek who likes what he does. Leave him alone.
"The Gimp Girl"
Re:If you want that feature, whey not do it yourse (Score:3)
More like drive quickly into some serious ass. When Hawking was visiting Caltech, he had a reputation for running students down with his cart. The thing is pretty fast.
Re:You forgot RMS. (Score:3)
Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.
Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.
All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people.
I guess what that means is that because RMS is so hardcore pure GNU philosoply, he makes you think and question what it is that YOU believe in. That's a good thing.
Sometimes he does seem to act like a whiny brat. Oh well, though.
--
Re:These questions are awful! (Score:3)
Oh well, just my $.02
backdoors (Score:3)
you can rest safe in the knowledge that there are no backdoors.
OK You can rest prety safe. I use it and I don't have any fears of this-- but isnt this a bit microsoftish to just pass it off as saying yea its safe. You know its safe, I know its safe, every single person on
People look up to Linus too much, I think (Score:3)
Another thing is that if people want to do something different and he stands in the way, then there is more likely to be a split. I mean, I don't see other major commercial projects with one single man at the helm, do you? It should be a committee of interested parties, all the main organisations that use Linux, who decide what happens to it. Big companies like Red Hat and Debian would have a place, along with representatives from the LUGS.
I suppose what I am trying to say, in my stupid way, is that I thought Linux was supposed to be a democracy? These moves would make sense, and I think they are pretty much inevitable. Don't you agree? ;-)
Only one story...? (Score:4)
It must be because Slashdot has only posted this story once - everyone knows real stories are duplicated at least once, if not more.
Re:You forgot RMS. (Score:4)
'course not, it's a HURD animal
--
These questions are awful! (Score:4)
Why don't you just quit?
Why don't you get back to work?
That's basically it. No wonder he hates the press.
Re:Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:4)
Kids could learn important spacial and social skills
hahahaha, learning social skills from a coder, that's funny.
Personally, I think we should have 1-900-LINUSEX where you can have phone sex with a real Linus impersonator!
Mmmm, I'm thinking of something that's 2.4, but it's not my kernel.
Ohhhh, let me unroll your tarball, big boy.
The possibilities (and cash flow) would be endless...
Hmm... maybe you should check first (Score:4)
Wired already *has* run a follow-up article about the 2.4 kernel. Which makes you look like an imbecile.
Wired Article [wired.com]
Comment removed (Score:4)
That bastard! (Score:5)
Why does he have to be so damned friendly and likable? Why god, why?
Why can't he be a self important blowhard like ESR, Bruce Perens or (best of all) Theo De Raadt?
Doesn't he realize that he's making it impossible to mock him?
I can't believe the nerve of that fucker.
--Shoeboy
Linus has an amazing personality. (Score:5)
*shrug* Call me weird, but I'm just impressed overall. Linus Torvalds is a genuine human being and his qualities haven't diminished.
You're right (Score:5)
The moral of the story is that unless you built your own processor, built your own hardware, built your own compiler from scratch, and read the source code and understood it completely, you're open to attack. Open-source itself is no magic bullet, and it's time the zealots figured that out.
Linus should have his own action-figure line (Score:5)
The options are to start up a trust fund, which would never work and wouldn't be consistent with Linus's libertarian politics. The second best option would be to start manufacturing and selling his own action-figure lineup. For the boys, there'd be Combat Linus with his dashing Finnish looks and two front-loading high-caliber automatic gcc's under each arm. For the girls, there'd be Dream Date Linus in a tuxedo with his pet penguin, Tux, on a leash. Kids could learn important spacial and social skills while also learning about the open-source and free-software movements. And geeks love toys, so adults would buy them too.
But most importantly, the proceeds would go to support Linus full-time. Think how much faster 2.4.0 could've come out if Linus could've devoted 14 hours per day to it. Just think about it.