Vorsprung durch Pinguin (Linux Top In .de-domains) 144
A reader writes "
According to the German Heise Newsticker Linux is the top server for .de-domains both in terms of IP addresses and domain names hosted. The survey carried out by the company iKu Netzwerklösungen surveyed all of almost 2.5 million connected .de-domains distributed over 205.540 IP addresses with the port scanner nmap. 44 percent of IP addresses surveyed were hosted by Linux, 30 percent by Windows.
In terms of domain names hosted Linux has an even greater lead, with over 1.1 million domaines. Solaris follows with about 850,000 names, of which 180,000 are hosted on just two Solaris boxes belonging to Germany's biggest webspace provider Strato. Windows follows in 3rd place with just 10%. " Check out the fish if you don't jive deutsch.
Re:Damned Europeans (Score:2)
Re:How True.... (Score:1)
You, sir, deserve to bitch-slapped for posting that link!!!
When enough people use a product or service, it instantly becomes lame to use it
Kinda like Slashdot...
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You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
Ummmm.... (Score:2)
First of all, high costs forcing a company to save money internally isn't an example of socialism, it's an example of capitalism.
Second, companies switching to a better and cheaper OS is not proof that XYZ doesn't work. It's proof that XYZ does work--something good happened.
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Re:Of what true value is this? (Score:1)
Such as WinNT for "mission critical appliacations"?
Having spent the last three years of my life coding website for the MS platform, that idea leaves me completely baffled...Re:Damned Europeans (Score:1)
There is only one computer magazine in Germany that doesn't orgasm when a new flavor of Windows is out. Besides the "c't", which is the magazine belonging to Heise and their News-Ticker", all the others seem to get paid to foam at their mouths about how the newest Windows version is the best thing since sliced bread.
puretec runs linux (Score:1)
Why is Germany exporting jobs then? (Score:3)
Of course, I'm referring to the BMW and Mercedes [buchanan.org] plants that were built in the US to avoid confiscatory German/Socialist policies. When manufacturing jobs are migrating to the US you know something is wrong.
And you're always reading about the inability of German firms to get enough technical IT workers. It's partly due to the IT boom, but also do to the oppressive employment policies of German businesses making full time, direct hire prohibitively expensive. Enter the guest worker, does anyone know if MS is running MCSE boot camps in Turkey? They should.
Thankfully, dubya is leading in the polls in the states, with a Replublican majority in the house they might be able to reverse American's socialist decline.
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
"A useful comparison might be to compare what the majority of Linux servers are used for compared to Solaris and Windows servers. Are the Linux servers running e-commerce sites? Or are they running the standard Apache home page because httpd was in the default init script?"
"Linux is used by many hobbyists - how many of those boxes where just boxes set up for personal use? I dunno how cheap broadband is in Germany, but it's a possibility."
So then should we discount Microsoft Windows market share on the desktop because most of the home users, after buying their computers, have it collecting dust in the corner somewhere after the novelty wears off?
Hey, I dig jive. Word to yo' mama. (Score:1)
"Some eyeballa' scribbles " Accordin' t' da damn German Heise Newsticka' Linux
be da damn top serva' 4
names hosted. Da survey carried out by da company Iku Netzwerklösungen
surveyed all o' mos' 2.5 million connected
I-P addresses wit' da damn port scanna' nmap. 44 puh'cent o' I-P addresses
surveyed wuz hosted by Linux, 30 puh'cent by Windows. In terms o' domain names
hosted Linux has some even greata' laid, wit' ova' 1.1 million domaines.
Solaris follows wit' about 850,000 names, o' which 180,000 be hosted on plum
deuce Solaris boxes belongin' t' Germany's biggest webspace provida' Strato.
Windows follows in 3rd place wit' plum 10%. " Check out da damn fish if yo' ass
duzn't jive deutsch. Sheeeiit. "
Re:Content is king... (Score:1)
The only useful content on that site, like homework and school-specific information, takes a good deal of clicking. A casual visitor to the site wouldn't even know that such resources exist, and that the site is actually useful.
But I'm just bitter, I guess, because my past experiences [weill.org] with the technologically backward staff there. At least the district saved money by hiring a couple of high school kids and paying them in independent study credits for their HTML coding.
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
Re:thoughts (Score:1)
I am actually bothered that only 7% have really tight Firewalls.
Re:180.000... (Score:1)
huh (Score:2)
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Re:NOT Flamebait, serious question (Score:2)
There are enough niche OS's out there to make sure that the true geek never uses a popular, "conformist" OS, and always gets to stand out from the crowd.
Re:Not surprising at all (Score:1)
That's one of the disadvantages of incorporating. The corporation pays corporate income taxes, and the employees and shareholders pay individual income taxes. Then the consumers pay taxes on purchases from the corporation.
There are many advantages to incorporating though... making it foolish not to in many cases.
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Just not the important ones (Score:2)
Re:NOT Flamebait, serious question (Score:1)
Re:question., (Score:1)
Um... I think that .gov, .mil and .edu are equally "truly American".
What about BSD? (Score:1)
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Our of 800,000 Domains on Solaris Machines, 180,000 are one TWO machines!!
Where as the million something are on who knows how many Linux boxen
Jeremy
Re:Methods... (Score:2)
Bill - aka taniwha
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question., (Score:2)
Ignorant Americans (slightly off-topic) (Score:2)
I've seen several arragant ignorant "that's wrong" posts correcting "flaws" in the main story, followed by the typical avalanche of corrections explaining how the commentor has it wrong instead.
I don't know the nationality of those involved, but if I were to guess, I'd say the arrogant ignorant ones were Americans. Maybe it's a failing of the schools, or a common misperception that the world follows all of America's "isms."
For the record,
I wish more Americans would learn how they fit into the world, in history and society. It's cultural Ptolemism, and it's embarassing to be an American amongst such examples of ignorance.
Re: Tupid stroll... (Score:1)
-={(Astynax)}=-
Re:question., (Score:1)
The stats for American domains are: Americans pick the most inane domain names. Americans are never content to pick a single inane domain name, they must have several and even bitch that there arent enough inane tld suffixes. Americans think domain names actually matter for traffic.
Re:Why is Germany exporting jobs then? (Score:3)
of course, this could also be a result of exclusionary and protective tarrifs that the US enacts to all automotive imports. Due to these tarrifs that are imposed on Asian and European imports, many such automotive companies are setting up shop in Mexico (where labour costs are cheaper than the US), or in the US itself, to avoid protectionist tarrifs.
If BMW and Daimler-Chrysler were to avoid "German Taxes", then they would move their entire operations elsewhere, not just their manufacturing plants.
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FUDstopper (Score:1)
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205.540 IP addresses (Score:2)
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Re:Damned Europeans (Score:2)
Everyone uses Windows, so it has to be good. Everyone used AT&T and Standard Oil, who provided excellent service for most of their customers but shut out competition. Why don't you let people choose what they want, instead of telling them what they want?
Echos (Score:1)
Re:One word... (Score:1)
i want one (Score:1)
wow! I want an ip in that network! 205.540.1.1 sounds nice...
Re:The Takeover (Score:1)
You'll find that the most abundant business desktop OS in Germany is Windows NT in it's various service pack flavours.
No, I don't have any proof besides personal experience.
Re:thoughts (Score:1)
I'm in Norway, and a friend of mine who is doing projects for the suits said that whenever IT people gets the last word, it's very seldom Windoze. I really have no other clues, I have the impression that suits prefer to use Windoze, but as long as they don't need to interact with Linux, they might not care. I'm trying to kick the suits I know abit, though, like: "you're not using Excel for statistics, are you? You are? Uh-oh, go and read Journal of Computational Statistics and Data Analysis, volume 31, issue 1, 28 July 1999 [woodleyside.co.uk]."
Nah, they're often hysterical about being business-like. It's coming, though, however slow. Some argue that Linux should be used in schools. I think that is going more slowly than use in web hosting though.
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
Regards, Ulli
Hoo Hah! (Score:1)
Another factor may simply be price. Buy Windows for a premium (prices are considerably higher for pretty much everything in Europe) or dl Linux for free and dig in.
Necessity can be quite a mother...
Vote [dragonswest.com] Naked 2000
Re:Why is Germany exporting jobs then? (Score:1)
With technical IT workers, it's the other way around. They are not paid enough to actually stay at a company. There is actually a surplus of IT people here, who wouldn't touch those low-wage jobs with a ten-foot-pole and rather go to a place (USA) where their skills are correctly valued. Although almost all IT positions require an academic education, IT personnel are paid far less than other comparable academics.
THIS is why we import low-cost workers from India. The plan seems to be to cart them here, let them do their work, pay them a trifle and send them back before they consider staying here.
Colonialism is back again with a vengeance. It's not military colonialism any more, but enconomical colonialism.
Re:Of what true value is this? (Score:1)
I didn't say I would deploy NT for anything mission-critical, just that NT is probably the current "OS of choice" in the industry.
However, it is hard to find (and keep, unless you have lots of cash) good Linux people, so I can understand why many companies are still choosing NT in mission critical situations -- Linux has less 3rd party support than they would like to see, while MSCE's and MS-based consulting firms are plentiful.
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Re: Tupid stroll... (Score:1)
Nice try. What you state is an ideal situation. Companies still set the prices, but through factoring in the market demand/supply, and exclusionary contracts. Mind you, only a small number of companies would be silly enough to set prices without doing some sort of market research, but silliness of companies never fail to am[ua]se me.
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Re:Ignorant Americans (slightly off-topic) (Score:1)
Germany -> Deutschland (not Deutcheland)
German -> Deutsch (not deutche)
... Ah nitpicking
Re:Well, duh! (Score:1)
you are counting "windows boxes for home use, which dial up and connect to the internet" as servers?
i would think it's an incredibly reasonable assumption on the part of the people doing the survey to assume that only machines with permanent connections should be counted as servers.
it also doesnt appear to be about numbers of boxes, but about number of sites served from the os. (otherwise solaris would have been last since most solaris sites are being served from 2 boxes)
I cant read the German article either. i'm basing my understanding on the same information yours is based on.
Re:FUDstopper (Score:1)
"In terms of domain names hosted Linux has an even greater lead, with over 1.1 million domaines. Solaris follows with about 850,000 names, of which 180,000 are hosted on just two Solaris boxes"
If anything is "proved" it's that Solaris is the one that scales to large systems.
idiot
Re:[offtopic] Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:1)
Nobody uses that name, though.
Not until the national debt gets up there.
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Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org
Re:question., (Score:1)
I think that
Re:question., (Score:2)
Eh? (Score:1)
Re:thoughts (Score:2)
Actually and unfortunately, no. The standard OS for governments is Windows (even 98 in many cases!). This is changing slowly, since they do begin to feel uncomfortable about not having the source of the software that handles all their precious data.
Re:question., (Score:1)
But enough ranting.
Re:Damned Europeans (Score:1)
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
I think I understand what you mean - that those computers are indeed valid in the context of boxes running x OS based on IP. However, it's not valid considering that we're supposed to assume that they all are servers - I wonder how many are boxes left running so the user can SSH in to gain access to his or her files?
Once you have your statistics, you can draw so many conclusions based on them - the fact that this was posted to what amounts to a Linux advocacy site suggests that Hemos believes that these figures prove something about Linux. (As does the telling the-penguins-wins-the- dept.)
Useful statistics in determining the "best" OS for something might be the OSes that e-commerce sites with 24/7 uptime, sustained for a year, use. But that won't tell anything about which OS is actually "best," it only says that a certain OS is good for the circumstances. I wouldn't run a mission-critical website on Windows. I also wouldn't run it on Linux - I'd use something like OpenVMS (only one that comes to mind right now).
Solaris has its place, Linux does too. These statistics don't really say anything about Linux, other than it's used on boxes that are connected to the Internet long enough to be port-scanned. So what? It doesn't really suggest anything about Linux - other than it's being used in Germany.
Re:i want one (Score:1)
Re:boring! (Score:1)
And, I think the question is not whether or not the state should support its people, but to what extent it should do.
But to come back to the topic: Linux is quite widely used in Germany. A main cause for that may be the distributor SuSE who develops one of the major Linux distributions.
And, unlike e.g. FreeBSD (and most other operating systems), Linux is a European product (from Findland), that is also a cause to choose it.
Just my 0.02 Euro.
Re:What about BSD? (Score:1)
Re:FUDstopper (Score:1)
I don't want to bash Solaris here. I'd rather think that this is due to the inability of Strato stuff to setup their servers correctly. Or maybe two servers is really a teensy-weensy-bit to weak to handle that load.
Whatever the cause of those shutdowns is, it doesn't make Solaris look good in Germany, as we know the whole story about Strato. "180,000 domains on two boxen" may look good too you, but when you are aware of Strato's problems here, you're beginning to wonder.
This is an excellent point for another company to spew FUD. "Hey, look, Strato is using Solaris to administrate it's domains. And guess what: Nothing works. For months now. So, dear customer, better forget about Solaris and buy our ultra-cool, mega-hyped, super-scalable OS."
It's a shame, really.
Re:heise pinged my machine, and it isn't .de ... (Score:1)
Re:NOT Flamebait, serious question (Score:1)
I know we should celebrate occasions like this one, when the Linux movement makes strides,but what really bothers me is the inevitable "Take THAT Microsoft!" kind of attitude that's
displayed. Are we out to build a better world, or just to tear down Gates?
Either works for me...
Mojo
Re:FUDstopper (Score:1)
for scalability of Linux? You could argue for
it to be proven in mission critical environment
(which hosting is a prime example of), or you
could argue its flexibility, or market acceptance,
but how do you figure scalability?
Re:One word... (Score:1)
You on the other hand...
Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:3)
They do it just to annoy Americans and the English.
Of what true value is this? (Score:5)
However, a survey like this cannot answer the question that PHB's and corporate Sysadmins everywhere want answered: What are successful companies using for mission-critical appliacations?
At the moment, I don't think anyone can answer that directly, but I would like to see tech magazines survey businesses to see what they are using, and in what capacity. I would suspect that, at least for now, MS has the lead in medium-to-large corporations for mission-critical applications -- but the fact remains there is no data to back this up.
#disclaimer -- I don't like MS, but I believe in every OS having a place.
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Re:Ummmm.... (Score:1)
> Of course not - it might challenge your small-minded view of the world and force you to accept that everything is not surrounded by a confortable glow.
Challenged your libertarian sentiments did he? And all you can do is produce and ad hominem attack. I would say you just lost the arguement.
Re:Not surprising at all (Score:1)
Eeehm, you've got to watch the news sometime. We swallowed East Germany ten years ago. End of socialism. Start of the new government program: "Let's wipe the corporations' arses".
Even the supposedly slightly socialistic Social-Democrats, who are in power now, have dropped their ideals and re-oriented themselves to the "new middle", i.e. ignoring the minorities' lobbys and catering to those with money.
Not a subnet (Score:1)
That is 205540. It is the number of IP's, not the subnet.
Re:Ummmm.... (Score:1)
Of course not - it might challenge your small-minded view of the world and force you to accept that everything is not surrounded by a confortable glow."
Actually, I was referring to high taxes in Germany, not any supposed "Revealing Truths About Socialism" which I've heard a million times.
"It is almost a definition of socialism that taxes are high."
And it IS a definition of capitalism that if some costs (which taxes are) rise but final price must stay constant then some other cost must fall--in this case OS platform.
"Second, companies switching to a better and cheaper OS is not proof that XYZ doesn't work."
"When did I say that Solaris didn't work? Please read and think before posting next time. It makes you look like less of an idiot."
When did I say you said Solaris didn't work? I'm talking about socialism. You said that companies moving to Linux proved that socialism didn't work. I'm saying that companies moving to Linux ("a better and cheaper OS") proves that "socialism" (actually capitalism as shown above) does work.
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Re:I'd like to find a Slashdot for Win2k users. (Score:1)
I'm sick of /. being full of these gnomes chanting, "Linux is the uber-OS! M$ SUCKS!!!" I run Windows 2000, and I've been contemplating changing my browser string to "MozillaSucks/NT5's bigone."
I remember that I did stumble upon a site with the layout of /. but about Win2k. I'd like to find it again. Because of the lack of intelligence at /. I've been forced to seek alternative newsfeeds (the Onion, for one; the constant GNU-Bickering at /. makes me sad)
Re:Of what true value is this? (Score:1)
Even the samurai
have teddy bears,
and even the teddy bears
Re:Ignorant Americans (slightly off-topic) (Score:2)
Well, America is the greatest country anyway... you should be happy that they don't nuke your ass out of this world!
</sarcasm>
Actually, I kinda agree - I'm fairly often pretty pissed off after reading American peoples opinions on things happening over here in Europe (simply because it's often obvious that they don't really know anything about what they're talking about)...
But I think it's tiny bit late to teach the Americans English (as in British English) spelling
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Re:Ignorant Americans (slightly off-topic) (Score:2)
side note: those digit symbols are Arabic in origin).
No, they are not. It was the Indians who invented the decimal number system. The Arabs who traded with the Indians were the ones who brought that over to Europe. That's why they are called Arabic numerals. They are not Arabic in origin, though.
It's even better in Central (and Eastern) Europe (Score:1)
Ignorant Americans, Ignorant Everyone (Score:2)
The Romans faced the same problem when they took over "Graeco-Roman" culture.
New Slogan: (Score:1)
Axel
Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:2)
good: 12345 or 12 345 or 12_345
bad: 12,345 or 12.345
Re:Damned Europeans (Score:1)
This has already been put into practice in Cambodia. I do not think anyone will try that again.
Mojo
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
(Although that provider states, that there are 1.000.000 Domains on that machine.)
Also they run the web-service for the domains on one, and use the other for e-mail and database. Both are Sun E6500
(I just happen to have a domain right there. It sucks. I should have used the other big one, it uses linux-cluster
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Samba Information HQ
Re:New Slogan: (Score:1)
just goes to prove (Score:1)
Re:Who cares? (Score:1)
Re: Tupid stroll... (Score:1)
I'm not sure what you mean in the part about exclusionary contracts.
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Re: Tupid stroll... (Score:1)
If the moneyhungry companies didn't take such enormous prices for their products the taxes wouldn't be so high either. The fun thing here is that Linux (considered socialist) is there to help the companies.
1) Companies don't set prices - markets do. High prices - and high profit margins - are signs of inefficiency in the marketplace due to over-regulation or lack of access to information.
2) I don't think of Linux as being socialist - i think it's the free-market's response to Microsoft's grip on the desktop. It certainly is very collectivist, but it all takes place within a context of free and voluntary association, which is very free-market/libertarian.
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Re:One word... (Score:1)
Re:Damned Europeans (Score:1)
Re:How True.... (Score:1)
Heck, I keep my plain but interesting-looking watch [timebydesign.com] on not only because I like the way it looks, but because I've had dozens of people come up to me and ask, "Does that thing tell time?" Serves them right for trying to crane their neck around and find the time out from my watch without asking.
When enough people use a product or service, it instantly becomes lame to use it, and l33t to use something more obscure. See: Winamp vs. Sonique; Internet Explorer/Netscape vs. Opera, iCab, and the list goes on; mIRC vs. any other IRC client; Windows vs. Linux (vs. FreeBSD?); and of course AOL vs. any other ISP in existence. You can hype the competition's features all you like, but people usually stick to what they know. Using what people don't know is l33t beyond all comprehension.
Optimistically, I'd say that Linux has a couple more years to go, just as long as Microsoft keeps its appeals process running. Pessimistically, and I hate to side with obvious trolls [slashdot.org], Linux still has a ways to go before it overcomes its UI limitations and can truly be fit for the masses.
Portscanning everyone? Geez... (Score:1)
[offtopic] Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:1)
1 Million = 1E6
1 Milliarde = 1E9
1 Billion = 1E12
1 Billiarde = 1E15
english:
1 million = 1E6
1 billion = 1E9
1 trillion = 1E12
1 ? = 1E15
© Copyright 2000 Kristian Köhntopp
Re:question. You cannot just look at TLD anymore (Score:3)
No not really. There is no saying where a site is located based on the TLD. A
The internet is truly global and every attempt at pinning down physical location based on simple TLD filters is bound to fail.
Re:Not a subnet (Score:1)
of course i know, it's just that it took me a few seconds to realize that the german hadn't figured out a way to add another few bits to ip addresses and this was actually a number. the headline's kinda confusing (at least for me!)
Re:[offtopic] Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:1)
Damned Europeans (Score:5)
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Re:question., (Score:3)
On the other hand, just about every web site in
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Crack must be real cheap in
Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:2)
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Who cares? (Score:5)
The number of Linux servers compared to Solaris servers is largely meaningless because a Sparc can handle more of a load than a simple x86. Yes, Linux is available on a Sparc. But why bother? If you're going to get a UltraSparc 10, why get another OS when you can get Solaris 8 supported as part of the package? If you can afford $8000 for the machine, Solaris is a viable and usually more useful option than Linux. (Mostly because you can also get a support contract.)
A useful comparison might be to compare what the majority of Linux servers are used for compared to Solaris and Windows servers. Are the Linux servers running e-commerce sites? Or are they running the standard Apache home page because httpd was in the default init script?
Linux is used by many hobbyists - how many of those boxes where just boxes set up for personal use? I dunno how cheap broadband is in Germany, but it's a possibility.
Like all statistics, take these with a grain of salt - the fact that the cheapest method of serving a web server is the most widely used really doesn't mean anything. I'd expect a survey of college students who run their own web pages to come up with a large collection of Linux, followed by Windows, and then maybe the free-as-in-beer Solaris offerings.
Methods... (Score:4)
Not to play devil's advocate, but how accurate are these numbers when you consider that firewalls can easily spoof or block portscan attempts?
Kevin Fox
Re:[offtopic] Re:205.540 IP addresses (Score:2)
1 million = 1E6
1 billion = 1E9
1 trillion = 1E12
1 ? = 1E15
Actually, that's actually "American" not English. 1E15 turns out to be quadrillion in America, and confusingly enough, one-thousand billion in the British system. You can learn FMTYNTK about the names of big numbers [m-w.com] courtesy of Merriam-Webster [m-w.com].
Re:One word... (Score:2)
Re:german != deutsch (Score:3)
Deutsch/German is spoken in
Holländisch/Dutch is spoken in
Re:reminder (Score:2)
Thad
thoughts (Score:3)
I bet for one, most of the governments over there use Linux because they would rather not give money to some American company. Atleast with linux they can argue there are Germans who have had a hand in making it and they aren't spending money.
It's also interest that a full 7% of the domains refused to respond. I'm not an expert here, does anybody know why that would be so high?
Re:question. You cannot just look at TLD anymore (Score:2)
The .ca domain has not yet been deregulated like the .com, .net, and .org TLDs have. Therefore, a .ca domain would be a pretty good indicator that the site is in fact based in Canada. Of course, there are exceptions, like www.yahoo.ca
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