
Debian Wins $25K Award From LinuxWorld 123
Phexro writes: "According to this story at newsalert, Debian has been awarded the $25,000 IDG/Linus Torvalds Community Award. It will be presented during the LinuxWorld Conference & Expo on Tuesday, Aug. 15. Go Debian!" Congratulations to the Debian crew for this. Non-Debian users benefit from the pressure that Debian puts on other distros -- just by existing -- to mind their P's and Q's when it comes to Free software, and for proving that elegant upgrade systems don't have to be glitzy or labyrinthine.
Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:2)
At least, if apt-get seems to be having problems, I can go edit /etc/apt/sources.list by hand and point to a different mirror site. I didn't see an option like that with MandrakeUpdate.
Eric
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Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
Re:Should be used on improving the installer (Score:1)
Oh yeah, I bet that I would find a truckload of non-techies that won't agree with you. What you are saying is that you think it is easy. That doesn't necesarily mean that everybody thinks it is easy.
dselect is a pain, but it's not that bad.
You can't make up your mind can you, because you are contradicting yourself.
Also I said nothing about removing the text based install, It is just that a graphical install should be the default if not otherwise specified.
it'll buy them lots of pizza+pepsi (Score:1)
thank god for debian, the stable release may not be out as fast as the other distro, but the when it's out, it'll be damn stable. unlike some of the other software producers( *cough*windowsNT*cough*).
when the thought that counts, get something else. for some quality, get debian or slackware. =)
Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:2)
Eric
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Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
Re:Should be used on improving the installer (Score:1)
It says on the buttons what happens when you click on them. It doesn't say on the prompt what happens when you type something... actually, it usually doesn't even say what you can type at all.
Now, if you take this as any sort of advocacy towards GUI tools you're wrong. In essence, I agree with you - I just tried to answer your question
Why Debian is So Great... (Score:5)
There are a couple of issues people have with Debian, first, they claim that it's always late. How is it late? Unlike some other distros that release 'betas' every once in awhile, Debian maintains a very stable stable, and a more risque devel version. I personally use the devel (woody) release, but when I'm building a server, or a workstation for work, I use the stable. Best of both worlds... you can have the most current versions of everything, or stick with the tried and true. Sounds like it's fair to me. The releases are immaterial for the most part, seeing as an apt-get upgrade -u keeps your packages current, or bugfixed.
Next people complain about the way Debian sticks to their Free Software Guidlines. It's important to stick to morals, which is important with all these gigantic Linux companies. Someone has to set the standard and do the Right Thing. I can't believe they don't get more respect considering how they've defined morals, and stuck to them, in spite of backlash over KDE et al, and everything else. It's truly admirable.
Fact is, I can convert an RPM package or install a third-party package if I want, so it's not like running Debian locks me out of proprietary software. I run Codewarrior, and ApplixOffice without any problems. I've even tried some betas of KDE2, all install and work perfectly. Another benefit of the extensive testing I mentioned earlier.
So, don't flame Debian. Even if you don't run it, you can respect their tenants. Doing the right thing, building a stable solid distro and ignoring commercial interests is what matters to them, and I have nothing but respect for them.
(Incidentally, I've bought a bunch of Debian merch, like a very nice T-shirt which has a slogan that I think applies very well to Debian "Code matters more than commercials" Seems like a laudable goal to me)
Re:That's not really a lot... (Score:1)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:2)
Re:cool (Score:1)
Re:debian, giver of woodrow (Score:2)
As for the sig, it's a brainteaser -- figure it out yourself..
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Re:All about the _Benjamins_??? (Score:1)
No one said it was (Score:1)
Was that? (Score:1)
Others have said it better than I (Score:1)
Re:Is being late considered as "elegance" ? (Score:1)
Debian isn't allied with communists (Score:1)
Any particular component of it? (Score:1)
not intended, i'm sure! (Score:1)
guffaw guffaw guffaw guffaw!!!
:))))))))))))))))
Re:cool (Score:1)
Re:Well look at Redrat and tell me this... (Score:1)
"What does it say about an organization that releases a flagshhip product that has thousands of full time programmers doing supposedly quality work and that still manages to contain various anoying bugs and failures?"
Debian uses a piecemeal upgrade process so it is hard to compare directly to Red Hat. I'm sure Debian has a huge bug tracking database like Red Hat. However, Debian is always in development and can use the excuse that bugs should be expected in development.Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:1)
Well if you have only ide drives, then you can use the idepci floppies(just 2: boot and root) with the ethernet drivers in the kernel, and you can download the rest(drivers, base and packages)
Re:Just a simple question... (Score:3)
2. It is stable as heck. Whenever debian releases a "stable" release, they really mean it. If you want more modern libraries, you can just as easily get the "unstable" version, a bleeding-edge repository that is still just as stable as what normally gets released as "stable" by commercial distributions.
3. It very strongly upholds the free software ideals. For those that want certain non-free versions, there is a separate repository for non-free software. The main distribtion installed by defalt is 100% pure-as-in-stallman's-weird-church-of-free-softwa
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Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
Re:Can they count it as Income? (Score:1)
Re:Actually it can be (Score:1)
Yes, broadly speaking
That being said for example using MS products makes a statement rather implicetly stated that you agree with the procedures that they utilize in development and marketing. Same with patronizing certain stores and the like.
I'm not so sure about that. It could imply a different statement, like : " I believe that having M$oft tools is more important than figthing M$oft", or even "The way to fight M$oft is not avoid to buy their software". Or a thousand other ones.
Implicit politic statements are hard to guess. Better ask people to explicit them.
Re:Debian developers never meet face to face? (Score:2)
Well, the procedures have changed a bit since the days of ~100-200 developers; I never met anyone, nor even had my key signed, for the first few years I was in the project. I only met another developer in the flesh 10 months ago (and then a whole bunch of them), at Atlanta Linux Showcase [linuxshowcase.org] last October. Since then, I've met a few more (out in the Bay Area in March). I've still not met most of the developers; pairwise, I doubt any of us has met a majority of project members (although maybe Wichert and a few others who get around a lot have).
I guess it would be interesting to see a graph of "who's met who" in Debian. I suspect there are two large clusters (Europe and North America) with links between them, and lots of nodes off on their own or in small groups.
Re:And?? (Score:2)
Re:Should be used on improving the installer (Score:3)
Debian Attention (Score:4)
Don't get me wrong, I've tried most Linux Distributions, and they certainly beet Micro$oft Winblows, but Debian is absolutely the best among them. Sure, the installation doesn't look that smooth, but if you just take the time and read the excellent manual, there should be no problems getting Debian running. And for are your other problems, there's a great community of Debian users and experts out there on the mailing-lists and IRC, who all where Newbies once and want to share their enthousiasm.
I could go on for ever with the advantages of Debian, so I just list some of them.
From the user's perspection: Easy upgrades, no problem looking for packages, clear filesystem-structure, nice extra tools like sendmailconfig,......
Further, the whole Linux community benefits from the efforts of Debian: The Bugtracking system, the promotion of Free (as in speech) Software and all those distributions based on Debian (Corel, Storm).
Let's hope for the benefit of the Linux Community, this will give Debian a big hop in popularity.
Re:Should be used on improving the installer (Score:1)
For example. I'm a GUI-loving wuss. I much prefer a GUI over a command line. But, I dislike gnome and kde and even Xfree for configuration.
Instead, I prefer linuxconf. It's ncurses-based. (It's gtk-based, too, but I use it in ncurses mode) Editing all those dotfiles by hand is, of course possible and would give me more control, but when I'm in unfamiliar territory, a menu-based configurator helps me learn what functionality is available to me.
I much prefer the DOS EDIT environment over that of emacs or VI. Because It's intuitive. I use VI because it is much more robust than DOS EDIT. A combination of the two would be a godsend for me.
I much prefer cfdisk and mandrake's partition table editor on install over FDISK. Not because it's pretty and skinned and colorful, but because it has a better interface, and that interface is (somewhat) intuitive. It describes visually what functionality is available to me in a way that is easy to grasp and picture in my head.
I much prefer GRUB to LILO. (not only for the interface, but it's a very nice touch.)
I much prefer SFM and MC to the command line when organizing my piles of ranomly downloaded MP3s.
I prefer MP3C to (cdparanoia $options|$encoder)
I prefer mutt to mail.
etc. etc. etc....
I haven't used Debian's configuration tool. But If I can infer from the comments, it seems that it would benefit from an ncurses-based menu system, or a better-designed one if it is already ncurses-based... to make it easier to use in the console.
Re:Should be used on improving the installer (Score:1)
Kind've makes up for all that lost (free) beer... (Score:1)
The Last AntiHero
...Linux users can wipe that smug smile off their face and go twirl their propeller caps
Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:1)
I should have mentioned that I meant the text-based RedHat installer; I can't stand the graphical one either..
Re:And?? (Score:1)
They don't and can't keep up with all the commercial Linux distros. Witness their ultra-slow release cycle. Hardcore Deb boosters will say that this is just extreme quality control, but it's also because there aren't enough developers to implement new features fast enough. They could cut corners to keep up with the big distros, but that would negate everything Debian.
Re:debian, giver of woodrow (Score:2)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
maybe.. (Score:1)
Re:GPLNet - the GNU freedom (Score:1)
I for one would be really interested to see what kind of discussion comes of this (I would have moderated you up), but if you insist on attaching it to stories that have nothing to do with it, it's just going to get moderated into oblivion.
Re:debian, giver of woodrow (Score:1)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:3)
What an uninformed opinion. How would you like to define 'stable'? Do you define it as an official release or as a tried-tested-and-true distribution?
If you define it as the first, you should be more then happy running frozen or unstable. After all, look at some of what the rest of the world calls 'release' quality software.. Gnome 1.0.0 *laughs* Redhat 5.0 *laughs again*
Seriously though, Debian has the highest release standards out of any distribution on the market. They don't have shareholders to answer to, they don't worry about making money.. Instead, they focus on meeting their stated goals.
Ever since I started on Debian a year and a bit ago, I've watched the unstable branch of the package repository break about 3 times. And 2 of those times were just dependencies that I waited a week for other packages to catch up on.
Anyway, the moral of the story:
If you need a system that is a fscking ROCK for stability: Get stable. There isn't any other Linux distro on the market that is as tested. Barring that, get FreeBSD.
If you need a system that will last longer for uptime then your power company, and you want to be on the leading edge of software releases, try unstable.
Non-free is still there (Score:1)
Re:That's not really a lot... (Score:1)
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What is you definition of a rock? (Score:1)
Define those terms they are too relative (Score:1)
And they are selling out to "the man" how? (Score:1)
Well look at Redrat and tell me this... (Score:1)
Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:5)
Yes, the fact that the main parts of the system are all 100% free is both good and important, but I also like the fact that you can enjoy the benefits of Debian without being forced to become an ideologue. Basically, it's good for it to be Free, but I use it because it's good.
Eric
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Re:Debian GNU/Hurd (Score:1)
cool (Score:1)
what does the money get used for? (Score:5)
Re:hah! (Score:1)
Make sure /etc/apt/sources.lists contains a list of servers and also tell it too use the 'stable' and 'frozen' flavor. After that your done. I wonder about your 'more easy' part; can't find anything more easy then "apt-get distupgrade" myself.
Debian GNU/Hurd (Score:2)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
While I agree that "unstable" is usually "stable enough" for home use or a developer box, it still does not cut it. Try to explain to management "their unstable is actually stable.. ". Also, way too many serious flaws (bash breakage, perl nightmare, there were lots of obvious bugs popping out , etc) have happened during potato development which makes the "unstable" a lousy choice to use in a production environment. In fact, when bash was unistalled in potato, people were saying on debian-devel: "But we told you it was unstable.. "
On the other hand, while I appreciate the stability of the stable release, 6 months after the release it becomes nearly useless.
Hardware support is HORRIBLE. Look at slink:
kernel v 2.0.3x, XFree86 3.3.2, no GNOME, etc.
It was obsolete by all standards a year ago already. I don't mind installing upgrades on my own box at home but at work I manage hundreds of boxes and prefer to use Redhat because of that (which also has a nifty feature, kickstart, for automated installs). This situation also scares the newbies as hell.
Don't get me wrong. My point is that the slow release schedule significantly reduces debian's
acceptance among the newbies and in orgranizations.
Anyways, I should probably get a life
And?? (Score:2)
Compared to how many that work at Red Hat, Caldera, SuSE? (even Hardware companies probably have more people paid to work on Linux, like Abit or VA).
Congradulations Debian, they earned the award. But, I just sort of have to look at that number and wonder how they manage to keep the all volnteer effort competitive with all the commercial Linux distributions. Anyone have any idea what other forms of income they have? Or how many (if any) people actually develop Debian "full time?"
hah! (Score:2)
Hah! Debian 2.2 is STILL not out in stable! It's been almost a year and a half, and they don't publish upgrades to their blessed packages unless it's a big security fix, and it can't break anything, and has to be tested first.
That's ok with me, except that they take too long between releases, and unless you want to break (!) your package setup, you can't upgrade your samba, apache, etc.., or dpkg/apt-get has a hissy fit. I switched after too many of these kind of problems, so maybe if Debian FIXED their methods and procedures so that upgrades to stable packages were easy to get without switching distros they could get more users, and therefore developers, in their distro.
Go Debian (Score:1)
Free? (Score:1)
Debian developers never meet face to face? (Score:2)
There was a small section in the article that said that many of the Debian developers have never met face to face. Whilst this is clearly true, most of them will never have met this way, I thought that before you get accepted as a Debian developer you had to go through a face to face meeting, to exchange public keys and the like. Is this true? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?
On a side note, I, and most of friends who use Linux, are big fans of Debian. The one guy loves stability, and gives not a fig for the bleeding edge. Another really goes for the bleeding edge, and always uses the most up-to-date "unstable" releases. A couple of us are such awful sysadmins, that we need something like the Debian package system in order to use Linux without having to reinstall regularly. Lastly, I go for their right and proper focus on free-as-in-freedom.
This is quite a spread of abilities and desires. Debian meets them all. That's a real trick for a Linux distribution. They've earned the award. Time for a big round of applause...
Debian is the most up to date distribution (Score:1)
I'm using unstable (though it's hardly that) and I update every week to keep on the bleeding edge for the software I use.
You can't get much fresher unless you watch freshmeat.net every day, pull down the source and build it yourself.
So, stop your bitching about how out-of-date debian is. It isn't.
Re:Free? (Score:2)
How about some of us more fanantical ones.
Me, I'll use any tool that works. Your choice of software isn't a political statement.
Re:hah! (Score:2)
their blessed packages unless it's a big security fix, and it can't break anything, and has to be tested first.
What really saddens me is That people like mandrake and redhat and such throw Everything into their newest distributions and CALL it stable, and people believe it. Debian 2.2 is as good as stable, it's just being tested, and tested, and tested.
There's a shirt on copyleft [copyleft.net] that says "Debian: When code matters more than commercials."... That's one of the points of debian. if you go with a distribution like mandrake or redhat or caldera, you know, deep down (or at least, you should), that the only reason that distribution exists is that they want to make some money. That's why there's been the IPO's. Not that there's anything wrong with money, or making it, But i'd rather trust someone who is writing the code for his or her own use rather than his or her own pocketbook. Debian's there because we want to use it. Not because we want to Pay some carpetbagger who thinks linux is the next Big Moneymaker.
That's ok with me, except that they take too long between releases, and unless you want to break (!) your package
setup, you can't upgrade your samba, apache, etc.., or dpkg/apt-get has a hissy fit.
Ahem:
# cd /etc/apt
# cat sources.list | sed 's/stable/woody/g' > sources.list
# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade
That's never broken *MY* Packages before. That's one of the most common debian misconceptions. 'stable'/'unstable' have more definitions than just non-dangerous/dangerous. one of the meanings of 'stable' is "not changing" versus "constantly changing" for unstable. When debian releases a STABLE distribution, it means it's been tested, proven, and works beautifully, even if it's not CuttingEdge(TM!)... Many times "This is reliable, And well tested." is WAY more important than "This is the newest thing out there!" Think about it. which would YOU really want on an important server?
I'll stand by my debian, thank you.
You need better criterion for what is good (Score:1)
Re:And?? (Score:1)
Re:And?? (Score:1)
maybe you don't have a lot of experience at 19, but if you can do the job you should be getting a real salary. but then, if you're happy with 21k i'm sure your "state-spanning" morgage broker employer is happy to pay you that.
- isaac =)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
If you really need it, you can get it.
Acceptance for newbies and so on is what "Debian based distributions" are for.
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Some of the stuff in non-free is less free than others. For instance, I believe the Aladdin version of Ghostscript (gs-aladdin) is not legal to put on a CD that you sell. Stuff like this is why non-free doesn't show up on CDs generally (though I imagine there's only a handful of packages that have this problem).
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That's not really a lot... (Score:1)
I mean, I'm happy for Debian and all, but I think that $25k is a little short for an award of this calibur.
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Re:Linus said it best (Score:1)
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Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:1)
The update system that can upgrade every package on the system with just two commands (apt-get update; apt-get upgrade). For busy people that don't have time to pore over every single update notice that comes in the mail or gets posted on the Web, that's worth a black-market price right there.
AutoRPM [kaybee.org] offers similar functionality for RPM based systems like Red Hat. You can for example use the AutoRPM to check the updated packages daily from the Red Hat ftp site (or from mirror sites). AutoRPM can then update the packages automagically.
debian, giver of woodrow (Score:2)
every time i pop that rescue.bin in and get that friendly boot message, i can't help but get 9 inches of pure USDA Homegrown Woodrow.
and just what the hell does see shy joe mean, anyway??!!
Unless it uses pure ISO standards your out of luck (Score:1)
Re:Free? (Score:1)
> laws goes into the non-US archive.
Um, no. It is in non-US so that it will continue
to be software that DOES NOT BREAK US export
control laws. Debian is 100% legal in the US.
Re:Linus said it best (Score:1)
"It's like giving the 'Han Solo Award' to the 'Rebel Fleet' itself!"
Should be used on improving the installer (Score:1)
Would be nice if some of that $ was used on making a good graphical installer for debian.
IMHO debian is a kickass distribution, the only thing holding it back is the lack of a good graphical installer like RedHat or Mandrake has.
Re:IMHO, IANAL (Score:1)
Hmmm, personally I do say "immhoe" and "eye-anal" - what does everyone else do?
The funny thing about communicating via text is that pronunciation becomes very non-standard. Do people say "ay-pee-tee" or "apt"? Interesting.
Well yes (Score:1)
Re:FP AGAIN! (Score:1)
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:2)
Re:Give Slackware an award (Score:1)
Re:Is being late considered as "elegance" ? (Score:1)
Haven't you ever heard the phrase "fashionably late"? Well, that's how Debian is. Late, but always classy and elegant.
Re:Just a simple question... (Score:1)
I too was very concerned when I considered ordering Debian CD's and found the "most recent version" to be horribly out of date. The truth is, though, the latest stable release isn't even what most people use.
So, when I was finally fed up with Mandrake, I RTFM'd and installed the frozen (almost released) potato version. It worked just peachy, no problem. Then I upgraded to the "unstable" woody. Still no problem. So with Debian I now have a system with newer software than most distros, and it's more stable than RedHat and Mandrake were for me.
As for installation, obviously you can't grab new potato or woody CD's from LinuxMall or whatever (and the few places I found that sold potato snapshot CD's were relatively expensive (at least for me, I'm poor)).
I had no trouble installing over the net, though. (And I recommend using apt-get instead of dselect; it's much quicker to just install whatever you want, whenever you want, instead of browsing through the huge list of packages in one sitting.)
Anyway, now that I'm using Debian I could never go back to another distro. The package management does indeed kick ass. It puts rpm to shame. Suddenly decide you want LyX installed? Forget putting a CD in or opening up your browser and fumbling around with rpm's and trying to get all the dependencies installed in the right order; just "apt-get install lyx" and LyX with all its dependencies are automatically downloaded and installed for you. Upgrading packages with new versions, and in fact upgrading the entire system to a new version, is just as easy.
(Disclaimer: I'm not a Debian developer or anything, and I'm _not_ one of those people who thinks Debian is all elite and everything else is for wussies. I'm just very happy with it myself, and explaining why, especially since you're resisting trying it for the same reasons I did.)
Re:Debian Attention (Score:1)
Re:Debian Attention (Score:1)
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Re:IMHO, IANAL (Score:1)
IANAL = I Am Not A Laywer
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:1)
Re:Why Debian is So Great... (Score:1)
See the compact directory [debian.org] for the disks.
Re:debian, giver of woodrow (Score:2)
Re:Free? (Score:5)
It seems that there are a few people still in the dark about how Debian's distribution fits together.
We have 2 archives, and each has 3 sections. There is 1 official section in each archive. The two archives are the "regular/low fat/most of the stuff" archive, and the "non-US/don't mind me/watch out for the helicopters" archive. Software that breaks the US export control laws goes into the non-US archive.
Inside each archive are 3 sections, called "main", "contrib" and "non-free". The only part of the archive that we "officially" support is the "main" section. Every piece of software in the "main" section is compliant with the Debian Free Software Guidelines [debian.org]. This software is all GPL, MPL, BSD, [insert favourite free licence here] stuff. The "contrib" section stuff *would* be in the "main" section, except that it for some reason relies on something from the "non-free" section. "non-free" stuff is stuff that we are allowed to distribute, but does not fall under our Free Software Guidelines.
The official Debian cd images that come out with each distribution contain the regular/main, regular/contrib, non-US/main and non-US/contrib stuff, along with all the source. Of course, often to use much of the contrib stuff, you need to grab non-free stuff (many packages however only partly rely on non-free stuff, such as driver modules, this still gets them into contrib, but you can use them without non-free).
Re:And?? (Score:5)
But the money won't go to hiring someone to work on Debian. We'll probably use it to build up our infrastructure -- we can always use more disk space.
But, I just sort of have to look at that number and wonder how they manage to keep the all volnteer effort competitive with all the commercial Linux distributions
That's really quite simple. It's the same way the linux community as a whole manages to be competative with big compainies like Microsoft. We have a lot of people, and their odd hours here and there add up. And the people who work on it really care, are often at the top of their fields, and do things right.
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Glad to hear this! (Score:2)
And debian has a particular role: it is a concience of the whole Linux industry. Glad to see them getting this award - keep on with the good work!
Re:GPLNet - the GNU freedom (Score:2)
"official" is just a word after all (Score:5)
Your reasons for not using debian are quite flimsy. You can have just as much cutting edge stuff with debian that you can in any other distro. (I do realize that there are some applications where the authors do not support debian so it takes a week or two for a package manager to make .deb available) It runs beautifully on my Compaq laptop with the latest eye candy available, and we even have some debian woody boxes that are running the latest 2.4-test kernel. Furthermore, I would rather have quality control than cutting edge on my mission critical servers any day. And the package management system is excellent. Maintenance and upgrades on these boxes is a breeze!
And with strong desktop distro's like corel and storm (which is better by far) your arguments become impotent. Personally, I would rather fight than switch.
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:4)
To give a serious answer to a not-so-serious question, yes. They do get a good lot in donations every year, and as far as I can tell they are spending it wisely. If I were them, I'd keep this award in an interest-bearing account for some future emergency. For example, we have some legal challenges for free software in the future that could effect Debian and the rest of the free software movement.
Having been there, I can tell you that if people on Debian argue, it's because they care deeply about it.
What stable release? I've run "unstable" for over a year now, and it's been more stable than other released distributions I could name, and just as up-to-date. Debian is addressing the release frequency, however.
Thanks
Bruce
A modest proposal: Feed the developers ;) (Score:2)
BUY THEM FOOD.
That's right. Imagine a sort of pizza-and-beer account that you could contribute to, the way that people can / could buy Theo of OpenBSD pizza.
if you like a certain distro, you can give them some virtual calories by sending them some money online.
for instance:
welcome to the hungry programmers food page:
I want to give [check one]
o $5
o $10
o $15
o $300,000
to the [check one]
o debian project
o FSF contributors
o both the debian project and FSF contributors
[check one]
o pizza fund
o beer fund
And the music industry would have to jump on board, too, of course;)
Amazon, do you want to redeem yourself?! host the payments, and match them
timothy
Actually it can be (Score:3)
That being said for example using MS products makes a statement rather implicetly stated that you agree with the procedures that they utilize in development and marketing. Same with patronizing certain stores and the like.
No one is immune. I will support microsoft no longer in my life.
They are moving towards a world where software is no longer my own and I have to upgrade a several thousand dollar computer every week. Thank you but no.
Is being late considered as "elegance" ? (Score:4)
You said:
"Congratulations to the Debian crew for this.
Non-Debian users benefit from the pressure
that Debian puts on other distros -- just by
existing -- to mind their P's and Q's when
it comes to Free software, and for proving
that elegant upgrade systems don't have to
be glitzy or labyrnthine."
I am not here to flame up a distro-based religious war, but I really wonder how being late all the time can be considered as an "elegant" trait ?
I mean, Debian is famous (notorious) for its lateness. Its "official" version almost always lag behind, compare with others.
True, being fast doesn't mean sharp, but Debian's lateness is something else altogether.
I mean, look at the "potato" release - or should I say, has yet to be released - other distros are carrying newer version of the utilities and kernel code already, in their RELEASE, OFFICIAL versions.
True, Debian does put a lot of effort into its Ps and Qs, but Ps and Qs alone is not _everything_. Sometimes a user needs some advance feature offered by a newer version of a certain utilities, and because of Debian's insistence on getting EVERYTHING in line, most of the time the utilities in Debian distros are of older version, and the user who needs the new feature ain't gonna get it.
That is why sometimes I am forced to use distros other than Debian.
But anyway, congratulation to Debian, the Debian folks have worked hard to earn the prize, despite the too often lateness for Debian releases.
Re:Is being late considered as "elegance" ? (Score:2)
Sure I have been waiting sense March for potato to be released as stable, but I am willing to wait the extra amount of time because I know that it takes that extra time to make sure that the distribution is in fact what they claim it to be, ie stable. When you rely on the bleeding edge technology you can get cut really badly, and the rigorous testing that Debian does to make sure that there are no show stopping bugs when they release their next stable product.
I agree that some of the other distros carry newer code in their official release versions already. Will I use those distros? No, because I understand that it takes a lot of time to go through a proper QA cycle. From what I have been able to tell only Debian takes the time and effert to do that.
Their "lateness" is considered elegant because they are willing to wait to make sure that their product is of the highest quality.
I use Debian because I do not need the bleeding edge technology. I need something that works, well. I enjoy the ability to type apt-get update, and apt-get dist-upgrade and know that I can trust that which I am getting is not going to break on me.
Re:what does the money get used for? (Score:5)