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Debian

Ask 'Ian' From Debian 115

Posted by Roblimo from the moving-on-to-new-projects dept.
Ian Murdock started the Debian Project in 1993 and was its leader until 1996. Now he's president and CEO of Progeny Linux Systems, a company working on a Debian-based system called Linux NOW. (Bruce Perens is chairman of the company's board of directors, so the place is obviously as Debian as a commercial entity can get.) Please post your questions for Ian below. We'll forward 10 of the highest-moderated questions to him by e-mail and run his replies as soon as he gets them back to us.
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Ask 'Ian' From Debian More

Ask 'Ian' From Debian

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  • Slow Release Schedule (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ian,

    Debian lags all other Linux distros in terms of its release schedule. Sure, you can point apt at the unstable branch, but that's living quite dangerously.

    The result of this lag is that "stable" Debian users also lag the rest of the Linux community in terms of what programs/kernel features they are using, and what programs/kernel features they can use.

    Instead of coming up to speed with kernel 2.2 when just about everyone else in the world did, Debian users will take that step alone. Instead of helping with the development and critique of 2.2 features, that window of opportunity will be closed to Debian users.

    Should Debian fix this, and if so, how? Nobody wants a junk stable version, but being anchored to 2.0, in the face of a 2.4 release, is a bit much.

  • How do you pronounce it? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You say Debbian
    I say Deebian
    Debbian
    Deebian
    Debbian
    Debian
    You say Linnux
    I say Leenux
    Linnux
    Leenux
    Linnux
    Leenux
    Debbian
    Deebian
    Let's call the whole thing off.

  • Re:Politics? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Signal 11 is a goat fucker."

    -Richard M. Stallman, 1996

  • I've nearly finished writing it. Last week's issue didn't happen, when I overslept.
    --
  • Off the top of my head...

    1) No, I don't think Coda is the next version of NFS; but I do think they want to replace it.

    2) Coda is a network filesystem; also, what Ian was proposing in NOW sounded like one too.

    3) Yeah, I really want to try out ReiserFS. I think I will when I can spring for a new computer, possibly including a couple of new hard drives--then I can really try out Software RAID, too! :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
  • This is my question almost exactly! I updated my system to the latest potato using apt yesterday and was astounded to find it's still using Gnome 1.0.55. I was expecting to see Gnome 1.2, which has been around for some time now

    To use anything relatively recent in the Debian world you have to run the "unstable" distribution. I don't like this entirely because I'm potentially sacrificing my system just to run software that everyone else is running

    Compiling Gnome myself is also not an option since I don't have days at hand to do it. If I knew enough about the process I'd volunteer myself as a "frozen/stable" package maintainer for the "current" Gnome releases...

  • I was really hoping this would get modded up.
    It's funny as hell.
  • I'm pretty sure the best way to end the distro flamewars is to kill off all the obviously crappy and inferior distributions, specifically SuSE and Solaris. Getting rid of GNOME would also be a good idea, since X is so much better.
  • Actually, Debian is more of a philosophy and a set of useful tools and concepts than anything else.

    You could apply the Debian way to *any* reasonably centralizable operating system (so not 'doze, since it would be too hard to centrally distribute all the apps).

    There is also work on a Debian-Solaris going on.

    I don't think Debian as a whole has made any commitment to one over the other(s). As long as there are people willing to work on any given new Debian environment, they can do so without bothering the developers of the traditional 'Debian Classic' Linux distro.

  • When does Debian plan to incorporate the LVM (Logical Volume Manager) tools into a standard release.

    Please note that Ian hasn't been actively involved with the Debian project for a long time; it makes more sense to ask this on a Debian list.

    In any case, lvm is packaged in "potato", the forthcoming Debian release. I don't know if the install process supports it by default.

  • You know, I used to be annoyed by the trolls, but now I find them oh so entertaining. I even feed them sometimes, but rarely one this obvious.
    --
  • This seemed like a reasonable question to ask since the title of the post was "Interviews: Ask 'Ian' From Debian". From that I assumed he had something to do with Debian. I don't know all the people in the Debian community as I don't use it currently.
    It us understandable to be surly sometimes.
  • Politics seems much more of a problem with linux companies than in other tech sectors. Mundane issues like licensing are fiercely debated both internally and externally with their customers. That, quite frankly, does not happen in any other business sector except the linux one.

    Given that, what advice would you offer to businesses trying to get into linux? ESR and RMS have two opinions on it, can we get a third?

  • That's what the "unstable" distribution is for, which in my opinion, is not really unstable. At least not any more than other "bleeding edge" distributions.
  • Debian is the basis for a lot more then you might think. A lot of software is derived from Debian in non-obvious ways. For example, have you installed potato? The boot floppies use BusyBox [lineo.com], which is being developed these days on Lineo's dime. Bruce is running a company these days, and so no longer had the time to develop it. So the guy who is doing BusyBox these days (me) is a long time Debian developer _and_ a Lineo employee. I was also the team lead for developing Embedix 1.0. Trust me on this, Embedix has some very strong Debian roots. You just don't see that type of thing in marketing brochures. I expect the same is true of almost every other Linux company. Debian is good, so people use it.

  • people are catching on....
  • He is the EX head of debian. RTFM.
  • Nothing to wonder about, really.
    the "Deb" in Debian is Ian's wife.
  • You were in COBOL?
  • how do you know you wernt just counter trolled?

    wow and i could be just a retalititon to a counter trolled troll.

    wow thats deep.

  • Just take a look here then and read it carefully, you will see that LSB and this system will change the Linux world to be a better place: http://www.w i.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/talks/PackageManagement20 00/html/ [leidenuniv.nl]
  • All right... but who is intending to move all its attention over to the Hurd is the GNU Project (Free Software Foundation), not Debian proper. Debian is not affiliated to FSF, but to its own SPI.
  • <I>> Pulling KDE out really seems like a ploy to
    > rekindle the GNOME vs. KDE war, leave it in
    > non-free and keep non-free there, let the users
    > know but give them the option.</I>

    Until QPL becomes GPL-compatible KDE distribution, or all KDE developers give special permission to distribute their GPL code with Qt, it will remain illegal to distribute KDE with Qt.

    If Harmony gets ready, then Debian will be able to distribute KDE.

    <I>> I also think the delays that have kept a
    > Debian release from coming out for what, over a
    > year now, are just an extreme form of idealism.
    > There simply isn't any way you can get all the
    > bugs out of that much software</I>

    No one is trying that. Only critical software will have the critical bugs ironed out. Non critical software will be left out, and non critical bugs will be released.

    The problem is that people have been slow to fix and test these critical bugs in critical software. Perhaps Debian could use some money to pay people to fix these bugs.

    <I>> I also think that using BSD and Hurd kernels
    > is a noble goal and I'm glad Debian is trying
    > to do it but is it too much to be the ideology
    > king and then to build this kernel independence
    > while putting out only rock solid and beyond
    > releases?</I>

    BSD and Hurd will never delay the Linux ports. If they are not ready, it's only a matter of not releasing them. In fact, BSD, Hurd, Solaris, Win32 will probably take a long, long time to be ready.

    Also, the filing of bugs from other kernels and architectures beyong Linux i386 contributes even to the quality of the Linux i386 Debian, since bug-free software contributes to more stable, fast, efficient and portable code in all architectures, not only that which made the bug appear.

    In fact Debian has left some desirable things out to get ready in time: a security audit, user friendliness, the most up-to-date software... that's called "feature-boxing", and there will allways be a choice of boxing less features or delay more. If you do not like Debian's choice but like some aspect of Debian, you can allways choose a Debian-based distro like Stormix, Libranet, Corel, etc.

  • What about Deb? I believe she had her say here [slashdot.org]. (Deb Richardson Answers Open Source Doc Questions)

  • I'm quite sure that Linux NOW is not a distribution, but rather a protocal or application. Besides, why would the head of Debian leave to start another distribution? Please read the link [progenylinux.com].

    And shame on all those moderators that moderated without reading the story!

  • But this is exactly what he's doing with Linux NOW: adding a feature from Plan 9!

  • May I first take a moment to apologise for many of the other posters. I have no idea why they don't wait for an interview with the current director for all their Debian questions.

    Anyway, I was hoping you could contrast Linux NOW with Plan 9 from Bell Labs [slashdot.org] and Beowulf clusters. I assume your commercial effort will be focused on the enterprise, but how do you think Linux NOW will scale for hobbiest or academic pursuits? (I ask because I was excited about Plan 9 until I realised how hard it would be to convince my flat mates to switch OSes. :)

  • And I reply in same to you, sir! I may have commited a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but under the circumstances I think it's a valid assumption rather than deserving of an "RTFM" suggestion.

  • Much easier to pick the minimal option (whatever it is, it's been a few months since I did an install) and then just use dselect / apt to get the packages you actually use. If you want to decide on a package - by -package level what gets installed, this is the way to go.

    ----------------

  • Actually, Solaris is Unix, it conforms to the X/Open standards and it pays the money and effort to be certified. I think HP/UX is Unix, too. Linux, *BSD, and many other Unix variants are very similar to official Unix, but not identical.
  • This probably isn't going to get moderated to 5, so I might as well answer it now...

    If you wanna start from the base system and work your way up, just don't select a profile or any task packages, and don't run dselect initially.

    Then apt-get install stuff as you need it.

    Most of the servers I put into production using Debian have under 200 packages installed.

  • And me with no moderation points.

    For pre-interview stories, everybody should get say 2 votes. This is very different than standard moderation.
  • To be very honest, I don't find the answer to be painfully obvious at all. If I did, I wouldn't have asked it. I've heard this complaint about Debian from many different people, so I think there is a great deal of interest in why this philosophy exists.

    Obviously, it's a Debian development philosophy, meaning that this is something that helped shape the overall structure of Debian from the beginning. What better person to ask than someone who was there from the start? I might find a decent answer elsewhere, but why not get it from the proverbial horse's mouth?
  • Since when is solaris a distro?

    Solaris is a totally different unix from linux. Speak before you think. Or whatever....
  • And I consider the "Other" distros feeble "not ready" releases more than an "anoyance" The frozen version (potato) is 2.2 based and powers all my production boxes. And Ian, I think I know which filesystem you'll choose.....
  • moderate trolls down. moderate this up . I just gotta know what he says to this one! I am gonna guess "Corel" or "Storm"
  • Where is this week's issue of Debian Weekly News?

    That's what I'm most curious about ;^)=

    --Robert
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • My question was, what would we ask her that we wouldn't ask her husband, and vice versa? And why would we ask those things differently?
  • (This point was made over on technocrat by someone else....and I had the same thought. I guess I need a beard and have it long and grey)

    In the press release [progenylinux.com], it states:
    Progeny bases its development on the Debian version of Linux, the operating system that is the major rival to UNIX and Windows NT in the server market.

    This implies that Linux isn't unix, because who puts into a press release that we are a major rival to ourselfs.

    If taking the API of UNIX and copying the API, using the same set of commands, using the same compilers and other userspace applications that unix uses doesn't make you unix, then WHAT EXACTLY are you? Ashamed of your proud UNIX roots?

  • Ok, do you then agree that Linux is so close to unix that it might as just be called unix?

    (As opposed to UNIX(TM))

    And, if Linux =~ unix, isn't declaring that the competition is Unix and Windows NT like saying our competition is ourselves?
  • >Unix" is a registered trademark of (I think) the XOpen Group. That's why companies like Sun and HP call their operating systems Solaris and HP/UX, rather than "Unix"

    So then there is no UNIX product?
  • Offtopic... I know. But just happy to see one Purdue-alum in the Linux limelight.
  • Uhm... isn't Coda the next version of NFS? I think it's a network filesystem, not a disk filesystem.

    What I'd REALLY like to see is Debian with built-in support for ReiserFS, so I don't have to hack together a ReiserFS boot/install disk.

  • Dude. MARUCHAN RULES!!! That other stuff is crap.

  • How is the other half of debian, Ian?

  • A lot of us out there in corporate environments are using Red Hat. What would you say is the biggest difference between Debian and Red Hat? Also, do you see Debian as a hacker's distro, or is there a push to invite the business community to embrace it (like Red Hat is doing with their distro)?
  • ...or bother replying to you. But who says I am on a quest for Slack? I simply want to alert the Slashdot populace to the Debian menace. Remember, Debian: the official Linux distribution of San Francisco. Hitler loves Debian! So does Connie Chung!

    ---------///----------

  • Torvalds isn't Finnish, you know. He was just very inebriated when he recorded that ubiquitous sound clip. Man, what a lush.

    ---------///----------

  • /* My comments do not represent the views of the Transmeta Corporation. */

    What a coincidence; neither do mine.

    ---------///----------

  • yeah... whats your point??

    omg... dont tell me... you mean youve never seen maruchan? oh how i am sorry for you!
  • stfu. i live in japan. its all about maruchan!
  • Do you think there will ever be a standard that all the dists. will use or do you think we as a community will stay a do-it-your-self society.
  • I would guess that the esiest way would be to make Debian the standard and have the other distro adopt dpkg and apt-get and the Debian policy regarding pacakges.This will set-up everybody to the place they belong,wannabe Linux distros out there just to make money,pushing buggy packages and libraries out the door...:-) --This post powered by Debian 2.2-potato--
  • i love your sig... c64 roxor

    there is linux for c64 somewhere, don't remeber where, saw it running a webserver

    kewl :)
  • I use Debian and I'm very proud of saying that out loud to everyone interested. My question is: do you think there is going to be in the near future any attempt of merging the structure of Debian into the [Free/Net/Open]BSD Projects? I ask that because they are great OS'es and many many people I know would love to see such effort. I'd like to ask you also if you think Hurd will be good enough to 'beat' *BSD's and become the 'standard' of Unix systems.
    Thank you.
  • here's the soundclip of torvalds himself

    http://www.linux.org/info/sounds/englis h.au [linux.org]

    :)
  • [This is a repost of my reply to someone else who asked the exact same question. Moderate the original if you feel this needs moderation.]

    How is this an important question for Ian? He is not in charge of the current release cycles. Didn't we already have an interview with Wichert? Should have asked him. If you want an answer from people who actually have something to do with what you are asking, try posting to the debian-project mailing list.

  • NOW, what kind of NOW is it? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Hi, I've been doing some small work for the Rock Linux [rocklinux.org] project for Beowulf/MOSIX clustering support. I have read through Progeny's press release and would like more info.
    Is NOW based on current work such as MOSIX [mosix.org], or will it be a new system entirely?
    If it is new, will it be heterogeneous?
    • If so, how would it handle process sharing?
    • Are you going to lay dynamic process scheduling over some sort of heterogenous message passing system?
    • Or similarly, but more simply, are you building a preemptive process distribution without dynamic scheduling? (Gathering data from network when finished.)
    Is it going to be compatible with message passing libraries, so that you can still run PVM/MPI programs in the background?
    Is it going to have a web interface such as Globus [globus.org] and be net distributed?
    If it is none of the above, then will it require recompilation to be utilized?
    Will it be fully optimized to use resources without hand tuning and using PVM/MPI?

    Thanks,
    CH
  • Why has Debian tied its long-term future to the Hurd's so long before the Hurd is ready for prime time?

    How is it tied? Debian GNU/Hurd [debian.org] is just another port of Debian (albeit to a different kernel, rather than a different processor).

    Also, people seem to regard the Debian project as a single entity making this type of decision. That is at best a misleading view. Debian is the sum of hundreds of volunteers. Some of those are interested in porting to the Hurd; a lot aren't. That doesn't mean "Debian" thinks its future is or isn't in the Hurd.

  • I love Debian and it is my preferred distro. But it takes forever to get out a stable version. By the time it is released I must move to the unstable branch to be able to run it on my computer. Is something done to address this problem?
  • now that we've interviewed ian of the debian project, will we get to interview deb of the debian project?
  • My post had some misinformation which I must clear up.

    What's going on is some Debian people are working on a port to the Hurd. There isn't actually a commitment to ultimately throw out GNU/Linux for GNU/Hurd as the basis for Debian; rather, these are two Debian OS projects progressing at the same time, with the GNU/Hurd part moving slower right now [because there are few workers and they are primarily adapting to changes in the GNU/Linux Debian].

    These aren't mutually exclusive projects in any way. What I was thinking of when I posted was the long term intention of the GNU to move all its attention over to the Hurd as its primary platform.

    Sorry folks.

  • If taking the API of UNIX and copying the API, using the same set of commands, using the same compilers and other userspace applications that unix uses doesn't make you unix, then WHAT EXACTLY are you? Ashamed of your proud UNIX roots?

    "Unix" is a registered trademark of (I think) the XOpen Group. That's why companies like Sun and HP call their operating systems Solaris and HP/UX, rather than "Unix" (even though they are functionally very Unix-like).

  • I'd rather ask "Deb".
  • You have been trolled. You have lost. HAND.
    --
    No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
  • I wonder about that. Why Ian and not Deb? I really, really hope that this isn't a male/female thing.

    Interesting, though -- what would we ask Deb differently than we ask Ian?

  • Since Debian is looking towards removing non-free then can I suggest that Debian aims to become the defacto base as in another layer above linux itself. Can I suggest that debian add another version called development that allows the very latest packages to be put there for all to try and test without the need for downloading, compiling and installing many modules. So there would be development, unstable, frozen and stable. This would not only accelerate debian itself but also linux itself and the packages on it. And would become the standard development ground which is currently missing from the open source world. The apt system makes Debian better than any other distro or operating system for this.
    What are your feelings on this?
  • Is there really a point to asking a Debian person anything? You already know their answer will be in the form of "apt-get"

    Q: "So, what is your personal opinion on the stance Debian has taken toward KDE?"

    A: "apt-get opinion"
  • ... how would you build an operating system knowing what you know now? I'm not talking kernel design, I'm talking overall system design. OS essentials, utilities, graphics system, applications, etc... Don't be specific to a certain popular kernel.. How would YOU do it? Could you describe the technical aspects -and- the management aspects?

    -- Phenym
  • When does Debian plan to incorporate the LVM (Logical Volume Manager) tools into a standard release. It would be nice to see this along with the MD (Multiple Devices) working well together.

  • A summary of Debian releases is availible here [debian.org]. We can see that during Ian's period as leader of the project, releases tended to be about 6 months or less apart on, and this trend continued after he left until Hamm (2.0). After that things are a bit slower.

    As for explaining it to suits, I do agree with you, but that answer is painfully obvious and we don't need to exclude another question for the sake of having Ian answer it.
  • How is this an important question for Ian? He is not in charge of the current release cycles. Didn't we already have an interview with Wichert? Should have asked him. If you want an answer from people who actually have something to do with what you are asking, try posting to the debian-project mailing list.

  • Off the record - I really think it's great that people agree to answer users questions.

    I spent some time before choosing a Linux distro that was right for me. I'm not a huge techie, but I enjoy technology and was looking to expand my horizons. How do you market your wares to people such as I?

    Do you rely on word of mouth for advertising - which is what I went by - or do you wish to attract users who are more likely to test different distros before choosing? Basically, how do you get your name out into the market place?

  • Hi Ian,
    I see Linux NOW is meant to make system administration easier. How ever after a brief cursory examination of your website, it seems you are trying to more network server side setup, similiar at least in concept to MS's .net and Sun's Java thin clients. If this is correct, I am curious why you didn't choose an approach more similiar to Novell's Zenworks? For those that don't know Zenworks lets a central server install and update software on individual workstations.

    I would think that Zenworks would be a more pwerful solution as it would leverage the power of individual workstations as opposed to being limited to the bandwith and processing power of the server.

    The other question I have is: What arguments would make to a new computer buyer (not necessarily first time user) to convince them to buy a Linux box?
  • In my enterprise we custom configure debian boxes for our customers. We think your new NOW stuff looks pretty hot as far as your world class team goes -some of the best out there including ...well... you!. (Im a fan, so what)
    Still, could you ellaborate on this "Changeing the way network computing works" stuff? I mean what's the new great idea in NOW. Will I be able to distribute tiers or threads across de networks (I can do that now, though).... Bottom line is ... I dont get it...whats this stuff (I read the page). Does it bring a new and innovative engineering concept? Would you elaborate on it?
    Alex

  • Non-free (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:23AM (#945552)
    Ian,

    Where do you stand on the whole "non-free should be removed from the Debian distribution/mirrors since we (Debian) don't want to promote non-free software" flamewar?

  • How is NOW different from a Cluster (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:29AM (#945553)
    Could you please explain how NOW compares to a cluster (not just distributed computing like a Beowolf, but like one of the commercial Unices.) and how does it compare to a System Management program like OpenView. From what I've read, it seems somewhere in the middle.

  • Re:What about Deb? (Score:3)

    by KodaK ( 5477 ) <sakodak@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Monday July 10, 2000 @06:08PM (#945554) Homepage
    Deb was Ian's girlfriend at the time, now his wife. I was a TA for the same class as Ian at Purdue when we "discovered" Linux together (look, ma, blatent name dropping!) Ask him what the class was (clue: think Grace Hopper.)

    More fun facts about Ian Murdock:

    Ian was the Indiana state bagpipe champion or some such.

    Ian was an accounting major before switching to CS after finding Linux.

    That's about all I can remember, we sort of lost touch after a while. I think I still owe him money.

  • Re:Debian development (Score:3)

    by Tiro ( 19535 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @10:28AM (#945555) Journal
    Because Ian is marketing Debian to companies, and also because he was involved in the creating of Debian's long release cycle philosophy, he is a great person to ask these questions to.

    He should know the best answers to these issues, as he has to explain them to suits every day.

  • Honestly (Score:3)

    by shiftaling ( 112731 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:23AM (#945556) Homepage
    In lieu of my usual ramen post: What do you think of ramen?

    I'm dead serious... Ramen is hacker food... and the Debian distro is arguably the product of hacker minds.

    I honestly would like an answer... and hey... its a short question!

  • apt-security? (Score:3)

    by xDroid ( 115379 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @11:04AM (#945557) Homepage
    Ian,
    <background>
    I have migrated to debian because of apt. I don't have time to do all the upgrades, patches, etc manually. After I was shown apt I changed distro's.
    <question>
    What security measures are in place to protect from an apt attack? If someone puts malicious code into a .deb it could cause a lot of damage, not only to my system(s) but to the general reputation of debian and linux.
    -- Andy Wergedal

  • A realistic question (Score:3)

    by citizen_bongo ( 152051 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @11:22AM (#945558) Homepage
    Do you believe you will able to ever succesfully produce profit and constant revenue from a sector that captures a very small portion of the market and one that is possibly shrinking due to economic slowdown? Do you believe you actually have a viable future or are you looking to gain promenence (and wealth) from a takeover from a more succesful Linux oriented company?

  • Distinguishing factors? (Score:3)

    by 11223 ( 201561 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:27AM (#945559)
    What distinguishes Linux NOW from a simple NFS/NIS based network? For instance, my employer runs a network of Sun Solaris computers, with users authenticated through NIS and home directories mounted on NFS. I can log in at any desktop, from a cheesy SPARCStation Classic to an Ultra 5, and it will appear the same. What functionality does Linux NOW provide that this does not?
  • With the glut of "Linux distributions" in the marketplace, why should I pick NOW as my distro? What makes NOW so special that RedHat or SuSe can't do? How is NOW going to survive?

  • LSB & Package Management (Score:4)

    by Lord Kano ( 13027 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @10:43AM (#945561) Homepage Journal
    Do you forsee a time when there will be a cease fire between proponents of Debian(and it's children) and the proponents of RedHat(and it's children) as it relates to LSB compliance and interoperability between .debs and .rpms?

    LK

  • Preview? (Score:5)

    by pb ( 1020 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:05AM (#945562)
    Could you tell us about this "Linux NOW" project you guys are working on now?

    Will the filesystem be based on Coda, or are you writing something completely new?

    How does the distributed architecture compare with what is currently available?

    Will it offer distributed computing, or just centralized administration?

    It's great to hear that this will be released back to the community; I'm sure this will be released long before Microsoft makes any real headway on their "Millenium" project. :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Accelerating Debian development (Score:5)

    by cblack ( 4342 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:15AM (#945563) Homepage
    I like what Debian is doing and believe it is very important. I also think it is a generally well thought-out system (altho there are annoyances with any distro). But the main problem I see with Debian (and what is keeping me from running it again at home) is that it is and has been behind the current linux technology. By this I mainly mean that it has taken so long for Debian to release a stable 2.2.x based distribution. Why do you think Debian has slipped in this regard and what can be done to fix it? Most servers running Debian now run VA's modified "slink and a half" distro to get the 2.2.x kernel if my impressions are correct (if they aren't, give me new ones).
    So, why has Debian been slow to release? I do not believe excessive quality control is a good enough excuse (I consider a delay this long while other distros have reasonable 2.2.x releases to be excessive).
    It us understandable to be surly sometimes.

  • Debian stuff (Score:5)

    by Uruk ( 4907 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:04AM (#945564)
    What do you think about the current political problems with KDE in debian, the possible removal of non-free, and any other 'political' issues you care to comment on?

    How has debian converged or diverged from what you originally wanted it to be?

    If you were Wichert, which direction would you take debian in now?

  • Mobile Linux and Other Debian-based distros (Score:5)

    by zeevon ( 6275 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:37AM (#945565) Homepage
    Despite promises from Lineo and Blue Cat to be the embedded Linux specialists, Transmeta is using Debian as a base for its Mobile Linux. In addition, Corel uses Debian for its own distro.

    Do you see Debian becoming a base upon which other distributions are built instead of "just another Linux distribution[1]." Given the amount of ports Debian has expanded to (x86, 68k, Sparc, Alpha, ARM, i-opener, etc), do you see it becoming the uber-distro for embedded (and unorthodox) systems?

    [1]We all know that Debian is more than this, of course.

  • Hurd/Linux (Score:5)

    by Tiro ( 19535 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:19AM (#945566) Journal
    Why has Debian tied its long-term future to the Hurd's so long before the Hurd is ready for prime time? We all know about the hopes and dreams the GNU project has for its kernel, but why is Debian going along for the ride when the future is so hazy?

  • Doing too much? (Score:5)

    by Mr T ( 21709 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @12:35PM (#945567) Homepage
    Do you think Debian has taken ideology too far lately? Has Debian tried to bite off too much lately?

    Back in the day... Debian seemed to have two major goals: it was going to be free and non-corporate like and it was going to include every possible package you could think of. The second goal caused some distribution problems but it was nothing that apt and a "non-free" directory couldn't solve... It may not have been perfect but Debian was a major player, a realistic option to Redhat or Caldera and when it mattered Debian could wave the flag of freedom and say it was down for the cause.

    I know I'll sound like a hypocrite to anyone who has read my posts before but now it looks like ideology has gone too far. Pulling KDE out really seems like a ploy to rekindle the GNOME vs. KDE war, leave it in non-free and keep non-free there, let the users know but give them the option. (I'm a GNOMEie in part because of the freedom issue, but I respect what Corel, Troll and the KDE team has done and while it will probably never be "GPL complete" (I just made that up, feel free to use "GPL complete" as you need to...) in terms of freedom it will get very very close, probably near the "Stallman Limit")

    I also think the delays that have kept a Debian release from coming out for what, over a year now, are just an extreme form of idealism. There simply isn't any way you can get all the bugs out of that much software, can't be done. Debian, still, has one of the more sophisticated automatic package distribution systems, it has more than a few people who can write code if needed, it seems like it would be more than good enough to add a new apt option, "get-emergency" that you could put in a cron job and it would download emergency stability fixes or something. I really think the boat is being missed, part of the idea is to release early, release often, and do you best to put out bug-free releases but be better at fixing the bugs when they surface. That's how the kernel runs and t work's pretty well. Of course, if they really want to take the stability thing far then why not cut out the non-free and 98% of the other packages and ship only a kernel once a perfectly stable one is written?

    I also think that using BSD and Hurd kernels is a noble goal and I'm glad Debian is trying to do it but is it too much to be the ideology king and then to build this kernel independence while putting out only rock solid and beyond releases? Staying up-to-date while doing all of that has to be impossible. OpenBSD kind of get's away with being woefully behind the times because there is the value add of being secure or the illusion of it, OpenBSD's mission statement also has a much smaller focus, it's security at all costs, not freedom, lot's of packages, rock solid, and kernel independence.

  • Debian development (Score:5)

    by fremen ( 33537 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:19AM (#945568)
    Debian has often been accused of having a very slow development cycle. The "stable" distribution is still using two to three year old technology, while frozen is getting more and more out of date each day. Meanwhile, companies like Mandrake are releasing much more bleeding edge distributions. These distributions have more bugs in them, but are also ahead of the game in terms of performance enhancements, newer software, and fixes for older bugs that still plague the older software in Debian. How do you respond to companies like this, and what do you see as Debian's place among these companies?

  • What would you add to *nix? (Score:5)

    by miahrogers ( 34176 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:30AM (#945569) Homepage
    If you could take 2 features from two other operating systems and add them to *nix what would they be?

  • Distributions (Score:5)

    by Chalst ( 57653 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:04AM (#945570) Homepage Journal
    What's your second-favourite Linux distribution?

  • Regrets or second thoughts? (Score:5)

    by RollingThunder ( 88952 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:09AM (#945571)
    Do you have any regrets about stepping down from your position with Debian? (IE: directions the project has gone that you disagree with and might have been able to prevent)

  • Distro wars (Score:5)

    by BgJonson79 ( 129962 ) <srsmith @ a l u m .wpi.edu> on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:12AM (#945572)
    What do you think is the best way to put out the distro flame wars and welcome more people into the world of Linux?

  • Guide to Slashdot Interviews (Score:5)

    by dmccarty ( 152630 ) on Monday July 10, 2000 @09:35AM (#945573)
    Dear /. Reader,

    Last week we selected [famous name] as an authority in [field] to answer some of your best and brightest questions. We've included [his/her] responses below:

    [the I-think-you-are-cool-and-would-like-to-be-like-you question]
    1. How did you choose [field] and how can I get more involved in [field].

    [famous name] Well, I really started by [...at this point, [famous name] begins to launch into a short autobiography. The reply to this first question will take up about as much space as the other 9 combined.]

    [the multi-part question]
    2. I think you are really cool. What are you feelings on [topic]?

    • and how it relates to telescopes
    • and how it relates to earth
      • with regard to North America
      • with regard to Asia
      • specifically, India and Pakistan

    and how it relates to groundhogs

    [famous name] Phew! That sure is a lot to answer. Well I guess you could sum it up neatly by saying that, yes, I do like it all.

    [the I-also-like-[other-topic]-do-you-think-it's-relate d-to-your-[field] question]
    3. I really like your work and am also interested in the whole Napster-Metallica-MP3 debate. How do you think it relates to your scientific [field]?

    [famous name] Well, I, well, uh... [at this point, [famous name] is thinking, "Where in the world did that question come from? Oh well, I'll try to be polite and answer it] I really think that, uh, music should be, uh, heard--yeah, heard!--and I think that, uh, well, Napster provides a service of hearing.

    [the really-in-depth question]
    4. Dear [famous name],
    I have tracked your research into biogenetical ESP CIO medicare research with great interested and wondered if you could clarify a minor point for me: in your estimation, are the EIO levels in a controlled AF/BF reaction substantially higher than the CF/DF state because of genetic-electro-magnetic lunar levels or is it mostly from O2 radiation WRT our helial position?

    [famous name] [Recognizes a quality question from a member of [field] and tries to formulate a scientific answer] Well, I believe my research has conclusively show that CD/DF states can be generated from the O2 +7/~3KE100 states of the T1000 with ISA/PCI/FBI catalysts [...launches into such arcane detail that no one outside of his research area has any clue what he's talking about.]

    [the Score:5, Funny question]
    5. What do you think of Natalie Portman eating hot grits in a Boewulf cluster?

    [famous name] Uh, well, I'm not really sure what you mean. Wasn't Natilie Portman that actress in Star Wars or something? [[famous name] is now wondering what he's got himself into, and who exactly are these Slashdot people...]

    [the your-work-sucks-I-scoff-at-you question]
    6. Hey [famous name's first name], I seen you on CNBC and I gotta tell ya, I don't think it's gonna work. I mean, whose to say that you even gradated from MIT in the 1st place? Are we supose to believe that stuff? If ur so smart, how come you haven't figured it out yet?????!!!!!

    [famous name] Well I believe we can make this work. I realize we've spent $80 million in research already, but if you look at the data I think you'll see that our work has some definite promise here. The possibilities for science are almost endless!
    .
    .
    .
    [more questions. [famous name]'s answers are getting shorter and more heated with each question. In one question, he calls the questioneer a bad name. In another question, he limits his answer to a simple "no."]
    .
    .
    .
    [the I'd-like-to-know-about-this-area-of-your-personal- life question]
    9. I noticed in the picture of you in the NYTimes that there's a bottle of Pert Plus behind you in that picture. Do you usually use Pert Plus for the dual-action, shampoo + conditioner in one? Or is it more because you like the curve and bounce of your hair after using it?

    [famous name] That wasn't my bottle of Pert Plus in the picture.

    [the I-can-generalize-your-entire-life's-work-in-a-sing le-statement question]
    10. I see you and other researches working on things like this and I wonder if this isn't all part of something bigger, like the Grand Unified Theory. Do you think your work is just a small piece of a larger puzzle?

    [famous name] [Realizes he now has to defend his work and is torn between trying to write a compelling argument for doing what he does or just trashing the 10th question altogether. Decides to write something, but keep it as short as possible.] Our work is extremely important. Without our research, that $80 million might have gone to another, less-deserving [field] of science. We can continue to produce more quality data the more funding we have.

    [famous name] realizes that the questions were mostly a flop but partially good and tries to wrap everything up politely: "I realize that a lot of you are very interested in what we do and I think you for your interest. You can learn more about our projects [web site] and I encourage you to visit. Thank you all again for this wonderful opportunity to answer your questions."

    --

    --

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