LinuxFest 2000 : More Penguins Than People 170
"I thought the show could have been a lot more successful," said Christofer Bell, a Sprint Systems Programmer, Kansas Unix/Linux Users Association member and LinuxFest attendee, "I think the people that did attend had a good experience for the most part. However, there were very few people there, far fewer than I would have hoped for an event of this type. When I walk into a Linux showcase event and [Eric Raymond] is giving a speech and only a third of the seats are filled, I am embarrassed, not only for Linux, but for my LUG, whose name, however tenuously, is connected to the event."
In talking to the local LUG after the fact, I find that the two most-used words in describing the show are "disappointed" and "embarrassing." The biggest fear of the local Linux community in the Kansas City area was that people would come to the show, see the poor attendance and draw the conclusion that Linux is dead. The greater Kansas City area is not only one of the most conservative areas in the country, it's also an area where proprietary software reigns supreme in both server and workstation markets. A lot of the local LUG members were looking forward to LinuxFest as a large, well-funded tradeshow to give their favorite alternative OS some equal time.
Dario Landazuri, Senior in Computer Engineering at the University of Kansas, talks about his experience at the show. "I was very disappointed. I'd been hearing rumblings about possible problems with this event, about how it might go badly. Unfortunately, those predictions came true. I was astounded to hear of Red Hat and Informix pulling out within the first two days. I volunteered to work with LinuxMall one of the days, as it gave me a chance to attend for free. I worked Friday for LinuxMall, and was appalled to see every remaining exhibitor pack up by 5 p.m. Friday. People began to show up around 5, and walked around asking where everything was. It was kind of embarrassing to have to explain what had happened."
Still, hope abounds. Most everyone I've spoken to still believes that the greater Kansas City area is a fantastic place for a Linux trade show, as long as it's done right with support from the community and decent marketing.
Derek Moeller, Linux enthusiast and attendee, shares his thoughts: "The worst effect that was seen during the show was a harsh underpopulation. Unfortunately, many people will see this effect without seeing the cause, and will mistakenly assume that any Linux show in Kansas City will demonstrate similar effects. We believe this to be incorrect, as the cause of the effect seen here was mismanagement to the extreme. A decently managed show in KC would be much more successful. In this case, the show was underattended to the point that Informix left after the first day, and they had full right to. Red Hat left as well, and although it was mainly pinned on hardware problems, they certainly had little reason to spend a lot of money on overcoming those problems. As a result of all this, vendor apathy was prevalent. Shall we say, the convention was not filled with smiles. Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it. In that respect, we can use this show to send a message to other hopeful LUGs out there. Not all shows are good shows. The existence of a bad show is worse than no show. When a show is planned to occur, always look into the past of the maintainers. Look at the structure with which the show is being managed. Compare it to successful shows. Are they similar? Different? If the LUG feels that the show is destined to fail, and to take a fair amount of respect from outsiders with it, then do everything in your power to stop that show, or at least minimize the impact. As many companies have learned, and as perhaps many LUGs have yet to learn, not all PR is good PR."
Dustin Decker, Network Sysadmin for Preferred Physicians Medical, enjoyed the time with the community more than the trade show that created it. "I would say the best part of the show for me really wasn't the show itself at all. I spent a good portion of time with Eric S. Raymond, sharing some meals and a net connection in addition to firing fully automatic weapons at his Geeks with Guns gathering on day two of his trip. Eric is a truly down to earth guy, with a wonderful ability to explain how the open source movement works. Of course we all know he's very involved in the Linux cause, but it was just really neat to have him in the Kansas City area and to have face to face access to him. Please note: I'm not a teenaged groupie geek type, I just like to meet neat people. We Linux users also had dinner at the Plum Tree restaurant in Lawrence, Kansas on Friday evening, with a turnout of about forty people. Dinner with that measure of my tribe was of course a very joyous occasion -- better than a Baptist revival."
Frank Wiles, mod_perl programmer for The Lawrence Journal World, discusses the benefits of a failed trade show to his LUG. "It really charged me up about the community. I met a lot of the people who I had previously only read about, or read their writings online. I feel that LinuxFest really breathed new life into KULUA, because of the pillars of the community that we got hang out with, as well as the fact of being semi-forced into saving the show. It really pulled us all together, and I realized that the 'pillars' of the open source community are real people, removed a lot of the 'star struck'-ness. And I realized, that these people are really wonderful people. Actually all the people that I have met in the open source community are really great, fun to be around people, and not just because they are geeks!"
Since I was at the show, I think it's only fair that I get to add a couple of quick thoughts to the end of this story. When I finished my keynote speech, Greg Palmer pulled me aside and said, "I want to do this again next year, but I want to do it right." The biggest problem for the show was the lack of infrastructure and foundation, a foundation that could have built with the rampant volunteerism of the local Linux community. There are some smart people out there who were all but begging to be involved with the planning and rollout of the show. Use them, Greg. I'll do whatever I can to make sure that happens.
I would also like to take some time to thank the members of KULUA, the Kansas Unix/Linux Users Association. When they felt the planning of the show was taking a dive, they invited me to come out and attend the show, and they paid my expenses out of the pockets of their members. These people saw a problem, and took it upon themselves to fix it. I had a fantastic time at the show, and I got to meet some of the coolest Linux enthusiasts in the world. The members of KULUA represent the finest sensibilities of the Linux community with a strong volunteer ethic, and endless amounts of optimism. While I was in Kansas, I slept on the couch of Joe Larcher, an intelligent, kind lawyer (lawyer!) who offered his place, bandwidth, transportation and refrigerator to someone he'd never met before. Dustin Decker, who I quoted above, performed the herculean task of pulling himself away from Geeks with Guns to pick me up from the airport. Sean and Kevin from Tummy.com bought me lunch when I showed up, lent me a wireless NIC, and updated my kernel. Cory Bosley drove me from the show to Joe's place, and got me a Coke. Frank Wiles, also quoted above, gave me the tour of Lawrence, from Java Break to the Granasty to the Tap. Randy Reames kept me knee-deep in Simpsons references. I met so many people that week, it's hard to keep track of them all. If I met you in Kansas, consider yourself thanked. You're all Aquamen.
Politicians and companies have spent years and millions trying to penetrate America's heartland with products and ideology. Normal people living normal lives and working normal jobs, representing the very core of conservative middle America. I never would have thought that one of the strongest outcroppings of community spirit I've ever seen would come from Kansas. The spirit and community of Linux and Free Software are alive and well there, regardless of one mismanaged trade show. I look forward to seeing you all next year.
Kansas Boy Speaks. (Score:4)
I was raised in the rurals of SouthEast Kansas, in on of the most agricultural (read 'poor') counties in the state.
I had the distinction in the mid 80's of being about the only person in the whole county with a computer, and certainly the only geek in my school district, maybe the whole county.
I've lived in Lawrence for the last 11 years. Here's my take on the whole thing.
1. Emmett hit the nail right on the head when he said "The greater Kansas City area is not only one of the most conservative areas in the country, it's also an area where proprietary software reigns supreme in both server and workstation markets."
This is not 'conservative' as in political or religious, but in decision making. Kansans/Midwesterners as a whole are very resistant to change. Not a horribly bad thing, but when it comes to things like technology and Linux, it can be a very hard sell.
Now, having said that, every place I've worked in the last few years, I've made converts to the One True Way. Places like Sprint have lots of pockets of Linux, but completely unofficially. Heck, my primary workstation was 'illegal', since the first thing I did when I got there was wipe 'blessed' NT install off the system, and install RedHat. There could be a lot of interest in Linux in the area, if they can be shown how it helps them, and that it is not a dangerous thing for them to pursue. Which leads to:
2. No one knew about the show.
I didn't know about it until is was already in progress, and it was talked about here on Slashdot. Unfortuately, I was in Dallas at the time, and couldn't attend.
ESR comes to friggin Lawrence, and I couldn't be there...AAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHhhh! And I would have brought my guns, too!
But also, local trade shows don't do horribly well in KC. People are hard pressed to justify taking off a day or an afternoon to attend. Employers don't like it, and unless it is a big event, it just doesn't happen.
A previous employer of mine did one of the small trade shows in the KC area, and it wasn't worth it.
So again, Emmett is completely correct in is statements. Using the grass-roots resources in KC could make for a good show, but it would be much better if it were more of a conference and training event, than just a trade show, like USENIX (which, BTW, was also last week). That would bring people in.
Anyway, I'm sorry I wasn't there to help, or even know about it until after the fact. And it makes the whole area look bad. There are actually a lot of talented, hard-working people in the KC area, not just a bunch of hicks.
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:1)
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DeCSS source code! [metastudios.com]
you must amputate to email me.
Can't imagine (Score:2)
What's going on? Where's the thrill? I know: the so-called Linux stocks have tanked. So -- some would-be profiteers take a dive in stock price and the "buzz is gone?"
People: quit looking at the stock pages [lwn.net]! Linux isn't about IPOs and stocks -- it's a technology. Use it, promote it, develop it.
Oh, and a little organization never hurt a conference. I remember BITNet conferences in the 1980s that were better attended than this.
Re:The problem(s) (Score:1)
I realize you weren't attacking the midwest, but saying the midwest should be ignored because it isn't interesting isn't really the best thing to say either. IMO there are still plenty of people in the midwest that are interested in technology. Isn't that the focus of a trade show/convention/conference? I know I would go for that reason, but maybe I'm in the minority.
Re:Consumerist middle America... (Score:1)
The coincidence that Kansas City is close to the geographic center of the US has little to do with the sort of Middle America I was refering to...
The Middle America I was refering to is more of a cultural, social and economic concept.
Certainly Washington State is Middle American: the rape of the Lake Sammamish Plateau to construct acre after acre of yuppie faux-mansions for M$ workers, all driving their Lexus SUV's while chatting on their cell phones, is the consumate new-school Middle America.
Kansas City represents the old-school Middle America, certainly, and I *still* don't think it's ready for Linux...
t_t_b
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Why bother traveling to Linux trade shows? (Score:2)
I think trade shows made more sense for proprietary software in the pre-Internet days. As the PC shows show, some people still live in that world, but for Linux it is bound not to work too well.
What gatherings like that could still be good for is technical discussions, planning of new open source projects, etc. But for that, you don't need 60000 sq ft of exposition space. Instead, you need a convenient, pleasant, easy-to-get-to location.
Re:Consumerist middle America... (Score:1)
I think not!
t_t_b
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Re:and the problem is.... (Score:1)
So does Chicago. The Cubs only approximate a Major League team, for wide tolerances of such.
Re: (Score:1)
'...got in free...' (Score:1)
I don't think so.
regarding the midwest... (Score:1)
Newsflash!
Creed, the #1 rock band in the US right now, held a contest where the largest number of online votes regiesterd from any city would win a free concert. The winning city... Lincoln, Nebraska!
There are plenty of rock shows in the midwest, especially in Omaha, NE; Ames, IA; and Kansas City, MO.
As for computing, as soon as a new product comes out, I can just as easily get it in Lincoln as anywhere else (okay, so we don't have "Fry's" in Lincoln)
The one exception, those cute little GM electric cars. I imagine they'd be a big hit anywhere (damn oil industry is keeping down the electric car, methinks, possibly the metric system, too).
As a footnote, I currently reside in Sunnyvale, CA (the heart of silicon valley) and work for a company that makes very attractive blue UNIX boxes.
Mike
Kansas == Bad Idea (Score:1)
Amen. Who the hell wants to go to Kansas? (Really. That's not a flame. It's just fact.) It's not convenient to anybody. I guess if it were on the west cost, easties would complain, and vice-versa. So some genius thought "hey, let's have it in the middle, so that everybody can come!"
Instead, nobody came.
-Waldo
Conference HOWTO (Score:3)
Re:The problem(s) (Score:1)
>not the other way around.
I think that is likely the reason that the show didn't do too well. I don't think that the show being in KC was the problem, just that KC isn't ready to support a show of this magnitude.
Trade shows and conferences aren't things that can simply be put together at the last moment. A good TS/Conf is something you grow. Now I'm no event organizer, but it seems to me that there is a logical series of steps that have to happen to get things going.
- Call it a Conference instead of a Trade Show.
This puts more of an emphasis on learning and networking (the social kind)than on marketing.
- Focus on local/regional Linux companies/vendors.
Having Red Hat and Informix maybe a real coupe, but if the show is a waste of their time then they're going to be hesitant about coming back.
- Market the hell out of it. Not the expensive glitzy kind, but send out info to all the big Linux portals on the net.
- Drop the price to a more reasonable $20.
- Set reasonable goals for growth. Try to progressively increase the conference content/speakers/vendors each year and the next thing you know you've got a rocking Conference/Trade Show hybrid in the midwest. That ought to get the gospel of Open Source out in the midwest.
Like I said, I'm no event organizer, but it seems pretty logical to me, successful expos don't just happen overnight.
Good luck, I may not live in the midwest, but I certainly like hearing about successful Linux shows anywhere they happen.
Re:A show in Kansas City? (Score:2)
I guess part of the mismanagement was bad advertising.
Darn it.
Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas... (Score:2)
linux is dead (Score:1)
sux 2 b whoever bankrolled it
Re:Too many shows; too few luminaries (Score:1)
I don't want people to get the idea that the local LUGs are responsible for the poor execution of this show. There basically would have been no show at all on Friday if not for KULUA pitching in to get Emmett here. I can't imagine that the three vedors that were there would have stayed in the absence of any speaker whatsoever.
Linux shows aren't doomed to failure by default... (Score:2)
I can't comment on LinuxFest 2000 since I didn't attend. Indeed, I didn't even know it was happening.
Obviously, something happened that made LinuxFest a bust. Location? Possibly. Organization (or lack thereof)? Probably. Lack of advertising? I'd say so. But condemning all Linux shows to failure because LinuxFest bombed is silly. People so far have posted comments to the effect of, "There are too many Linux shows!" I don't think that's the problem, however. The 1999 Atlanta Linux Showcase [linuxshowcase.com] was a huge success, even though the LinuxWorld Conference and Expo [linuxexpo.com] drew more fanfare. The ALS was incredibly well-organized, and I'm sure most of the people that attended are planning to come again this year.
Others have suggested folding the Linux trade shows into Comdex or the other big PC trade shows. That's fine, but then you make it difficult or impossible for the "average Joe" without a company expense account to attend.
Yep - I never heard about this one either!! (Score:1)
But no - I heard not a word about it until now.
This really was mis-managed to the max!
Re:The problem(s) (Score:4)
You know, I just don't understand why California and New York are the only places in the US that should be allowed to experience "real-time" advances. Over and over I hear people say that the midwest is not meant to have technical advances, or any advances. Concerts in the midwest are of bands that were statistically dead about 20 years ago, new bands tour the coasts (maybe they hit St. Louis), technical conferences get horrendous turnout because no one says they are happening until after they fail, and people just keep saying the midwest is for farmers only.
Yeah, fine. I don't think it was as much location as people keep implying. I think you need to advertise to bring people into a show like this. Even if you were in LV or LA, if you throw together a conference and just expect people to turn up it will fail too. The really sad part about this is that if the general computing press gets ahold of it we will be hearing for the next three months about how Linux is dead. Great, perfect planning guys.
All Praise the Penguin (Score:1)
A tux for tails and bods like bottles
But 'scuse us if we find no levity,
'Cause you also gaave us gravity.
But to adversity we say "nuts!"
And as we try to fly the coop
We flap and beat to lift our butts...
And we're left as waddling nincompoops.
So Lord, I'd think you much more wise
(and me much less a jerk)
If for once you might provide
Some penguin wings that work.
(I'm sure I slaughtered a couple of lines. It's been a good eight years since I've read it in person.)
Attendance problems: Win2k, not just Linux (Score:1)
But I recently attended a 'Big Day' show by Microsoft, which was basically an intro/feature show/demo for Win2k. And let me tell you, attendance was *way* down from 'Big Day' shows from previous years in the same city. There were perhaps 50-60 folks at this one. And I was a transient. It was dead ass boring and I left after perhaps less than an hour.
Previous shows at the same city might have netted 200 or so attendance. So I don't think I'd attribute the attendance to some Linux phenomenon.
Next time you're in Kansas (Score:2)
Next time you are in Kansas City, take the couple of hours to drive down to Hutchinson and see the Kansas Cosmosphere. It is one of the few items we Kansas Geeks can crow over: the most respected space artifact restoration center in the world, one of the largest collections of Russian space artifacts outside the Commonwealth, and all pulled into existance by the will of a few good men.
Also, you might want to explain the "Aquaman" reference. Post a link to an explaination on your web page or something.
And, at the risk of a -1: redundant, I'd like to also add my voice to the choir: not all of us live within driving distance of the Valley, or Research Triangle Park! Kansas is at most 2 days drive from anywhere in the Continental US, and most of the US (geographically speaking) is a day away. Gas (even at today's prices) and a hotel room is still much cheaper than air fare, and not everybody has a high paying job. Also, let us not forget that to "win", we must make Linux usable by the masses, and make the masses aware of that fact!
Re:... And too few volunteers ... (Score:2)
It seems to me that one of the biggest mistakes the KC show people made was in not getting the word out: I found out about this by a chance reference on ZDNET, and wouldn't have otherwise. Yes, they advertised in LJ, but that was a half-page ad buried in the back with all the other ads I might read if I have a bought of constipation. Now, if they had pushed for a mention on
Better still would have been to work with NTLUG, ACLUG, and all the other LUGs within a day's drive, to get the event in the local papers, on the local radio stations, and talked about in the local communities. Then they might have had enough people coming in to keep everybody around.
But this "Build it and they will come" attitude will fail every time.
Don't Let This Get You Panicked (Score:2)
Okay--so this conference was a total bust. Somebody in Kansas City did a wretched job organizing a conference, and the conference was wretched.
Do not let this get you down. In fact, the conference may not have been all that bad. Imagine being the 14th person in that opening presentation with Bruce Perens--a whole lot better communication than being one of 2000 at a mega-conference on the west coast, no? When LinuxWorldExpo draws 30,000 attendees you're not going to be firing automatic weapons at a Geeks with Guns gathering, lest it bring out the National Guard.
This may well be a sign of a maturing Linux community.
I've been a Visual Basic programmer since the day the product shipped (I've been programming in Basic since the days when it was an acronym). When VB first shipped it generated a positively electric buzz--it was phenomenally cool. But after the initial hype, after the initial thrill, and after a few developers noticed that there were some serious limits to what you could do with VB1, there seemed to be a plateau....
Right about that time Microsoft organized a conference in New York City with Boston University. Big deal, big ticket conference, with a huge fee to attend. And approximately nobody signed up. Microsoft called me up personally to invite me to attend, and the person asked me if I had any friends who'd like to come along too. For free. (And bear in mind--this was organized by professional conference organizers, in midtown Manhattan. This wasn't some poor guy in over his head in Kansas.)
Even with the last-minute scrambling, there were something like 40 people there--maybe less. Microsoft people openly worried about looking that stupid in front of the entire New York IT world. It was a cast-iron disaster.
Except that it wasn't. During the early buzz of Visual Basic there was a small group of self-employed programmers using the tool, and a larger group of corporate programmers who were playing with it at home. By the time this conference rolled around, a lot of those guys had jobs as VB programmers, and couldn't get the time to go to the conference. Or didn't feel the conference would tell them anything they couldn't hear online. VB has gone on to huge things in New York City and elsewhere, of course, and a poorly attended conference in 1992 hasn't made the slightest bit of difference.
That may well be the same thing with this Linux conference. Sure--poor promotion will hurt. But poor attendance by the locals may well mean that people are using Linux at work, and that in turn means that Linux is infiltrating the corporate world.
You may see more conference reports that show poor attendance. It doesn't mean that Linux is in trouble--it probably just means that a lot of Linux users have been to a conference or two, heard the speeches extolling Open Source, and are biding their time (and keeping their money) until there is something new! and exciting! about Linux to come hear about.
That may be coming: Borland/Inprise [borland.com] is now projecting that Kylix, their cross-platform version of Delphi, will ship later this year. When developers can take advantage of a visual development IDE and deploy on Linux, there may be a phenomenal explosion of interest. And when corporate IT managers discover that the boys in the back room have been running the company proxy server on Linux for months, you may well see an explosion of interest in Linux all across corporate America.
I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a Linux evangelist. But I would not, at all, consider this conference (or Roblimo's similarly pessimistic views on PC Expo) reason to get discouraged about the potential of Linux.
The penguin may just be sitting on the tip of the iceberg....
Re:Kansas == Bad Idea (Score:1)
Who the hell wants to go to Kansas? (Really. That's not a flame. It's just fact.)
No one. It's a little known secret that the states of Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and the Dakota's are actually sparsley populated, free-range lands, where Native American's still hunt buffallo. The only other people who live here are those like myself, hearty pioneers who eek out a meager existance tilling the soil, to pay for my cable modem.
It's not convenient to anybody.
It's convienient to the people who live in the midwest, which is pretty much the point of having a regional Linux trade show. No one was expecting major East or West coast attendence. The fact that the show was sparsley attended was because it was poorly advertised and promoted: the fault, as it turns out, of the shows director.
Now, since you so kindly flamed my home state, allow me to reciprocate. Remember, this is not a flame, it's just fact.
I sure hope they never hold a major Linux expo in Virginia. Anyone who attended would probably be pressured by big tobacco companies to start smoking against their will. Either that, or a damn hurricane would come and wipe out the entire convention. Nobody wants to go to Virginia anyway, its sucks.
Ummm, aren't we forgetting something? (Score:1)
Namely that the main point of a trade show is to spend a few days on the company dime in a place where you take advantage of one or more of the following
Last time I checked the only one of these KC has is the latter and you can drink anywhere outside Utah. Put the next Penguin event in Vegas and you'll be mobbed. OK midwesterners, flame me I guess I deserve it. ;)
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Rearranging won't help (Score:2)
Doesn't help. 3D Expo, which used to be in San Francisco and is now held at the Santa Clara, California convention center, is like that. When it was at Moscone in SF, there were about three aisles of exhibits surrounded by drapes. Duck behind a drape, and you were in a multi-acre convention hall. It still looked stupid.
Not sure KC was the best venue (Score:2)
As you said, Kansas is a very conservitive state, as is much of the midwest, and I wouldn't have a linux expo in KC for the same reasons i wouldn't have one in Des Moines or Lincoln. They're nice enough places to visit. Hell, i'd even consider living in KC if it weren't for those damned Chiefs! - but what linux needs right now is what it's been using for quite some time, a newer, more (dare i say) hip approach. The midwest seems to, like it or not, bring with it images of, as you said, grass-roots, stability, tradition. Linux seems to represent some of the opposite characteristics. A break with tradition. (ok - everything except instability
These all seem to me to be good choices. Oh well, i suppose i'm just sad i didn't get to make the 9 hour drive out to see ESR. my bad!
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Re:Why bother traveling to Linux trade shows? (Score:1)
Bob
Just More Proof... (Score:2)
Re:I was there, here's what happened. (Score:1)
Too many shows, not enough BBQ? (Score:1)
They would have added hundreds if not thousands of ravenous activists to their audience!
sulli
Location, location, location (Score:2)
This show didn't have the first, because there's very little that your average techie wants to do in Kansas City other than the show.
It didn't have the second to the degree that places like Silicon Valley, New York, Austin, Orlando, Atlanta etc. do, because it's freakin' Kansas City.
You can overcome these problems, but only if you don't conflict with any other shows (they did) and put on hellacious advertising (they didn't).
Next time, go in with Chicago or even St. Louis on a joint show, and watch your scheduling.
Or, hell; since you're gonna fly anyway, go in with Orlando.
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Kansas Territory. (Score:1)
>(little Colorado joke
If you look at old maps, the 'Kansas Territory' used to extend to the great divide of the Rockies. That's right, Mountain-Boy, unless you live on the west side of Colorado, we used to own you!
Ironicly, I'll be moving to Boulder in about 3 weeks.....
What looks bad, looks bad... (Score:2)
The problem is that if the show "bombed," people that don't understand show organization will "blame" the locals, even if it's IDG or some such "event" group that was truly responsible.
The fact that responsibility isn't completely clear is part of why NTLUG hasn't proceeded; we've heard enough horror stories of conference organizers playing political games that this plays into a reluctance to encourage an event to happen.
Apathy and mismanagement (Score:1)
I could tell... (Score:4)
I decided not to go to this event on the basis of the fact that it looked small. Very small. Like major supporters (such as Red Hat) were dragged kicking and screaming into supporting the event, and then (as I predicted) left early. What can I say? There's a couple of problems:
Re:Kansas == Bad Idea (Score:1)
People who live in or around Kansas. I see no reason we can't have Linux shows in all areas of the country. While there aren't as many people around here, the inconvenience of having to go a thousand miles or more is enough to keep me away from the shows on the coast, and it's nice to have shows within reasonable driving distance that I can go to. I am both pleased we had a local show, and at the same time disappointed that it wasn't handled better.
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Re:Location (Score:2)
I and many others would have been there if we would have heard of it. I can't afford to go to the coast (East or West) just to attend a Linux conference, and my company can't afford to send me there. But they would consider sending me to Kansas City, which is relatively just across the way.
Advertise your show, and people will come.
I'll be happy to speak in the Midwest again. (Score:2)
I generally ask any LUG or show who want me to speak to find a local sponsor who will fund transportation and lodging, but I do not ask for any honorarium. If the show is well-funded, sometimes I ask them to bring out my wife and child as well.
Thanks
Bruce
Re:and the problem is.... (Score:2)
Mind you, when compared to Chicago we might look a little (ok, a lot) quiet
As for advertising, I didn't see jack! I work at the Sprint Campus RIGHT NEXT DOOR to where it was held and the first notice I saw that it was happening was the prior Thursday. Did I see this notice in any of the local media? Nope, Linux Weekly News (www.lwn.net). I'm surprised anyone in KC knew the event was happening.
Bret
(No
Re:Linux shows aren't doomed to failure by default (Score:2)
I didn't know it was happening either. I was in Kansas City to see my old friends and parents. I would have killed to bring my family and friends to a LinuxFest if I knew it was happening in my home town.
Where was the advertising?
Mysterious trade show (Score:2)
Does anyone know of, or has anyone thought of a web site that has a collection of Tradeshow locations/information that is searchable by location. Kind of like how Market Pro has their web page which I believe is at http://www.marketpro.com Something like this might help others out in finding tradeshows that they would like to go to. I would think this would even help marketing FOR the tradeshow. I personally find it a pain to have to go searching through endless web sites to find a tradeshow, especially one that is current and local! If there's anyone out there willing, or knows of one, maybe it's time to set up a web page specifically for tradeshows.
Poor Marketing and Followup (Score:2)
I know there is a huge following here in KC for Linux, I just don't think anyone knew about the event.
It was poorly marketed, mismanaged, and was generally a first class kluge. They need to take the people responsible for the thing out and thoroughly beaten with a large blunt object.
IS
I did get a cool squishy ball though. la-dee-fricken-da
Well...how about Portland? (Score:1)
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Do people want to spend MONEY at/on a Linux show? (Score:1)
Re:to clear some things up.... (Score:1)
Re:Linuxfest 2000 pictures (Score:1)
Re:Guns & Linux? (Score:1)
Well, see, nobody ever shows up at Geeks with Girlfriends.... +g+
Why? (Score:1)
--
-Rich (OS/2, Linux, BeOS, Mac, NT, Win95, Solaris, FreeBSD, and OS2200 user in Bloomington MN)
All Kansas means to me... (Score:1)
Prog rock
Some crazy little women
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:1)
Conferences are all fine and good when there is a huge following in a region or you have a lot of experience in organizing gatherings and want to try something on a large scale, but since the scene in your area appears to be so dead that you only know a couple of other Linux users, you should take the initiative to start a little something of your own to help spread the word and build interest in your area. Who knows? In a couple of years, after you have a few small installfests under your belt and have planned a couple of decent conferences, maybe you'll be the one planning the Linux blowout of the year, with Linus doing the keynote honors.
Deo
Re:Location (Score:1)
Amen to that. I grew up in Kansas and I'll never go back.
Re:Why bother traveling to Linux trade shows? (Score:2)
Hey people! Pre-registration ?!? (Score:2)
When a conference is organized, the speakers are lined up first, then main corporate sponsors.
Here is the important step: PRE-REGISTRATION.
I cannot believe that the show was permitted to occur if less than 1000 people pre-registered.
Once the pre-registration is on the way and things are occuring as predicted, the rest of the show floor is sold. The order of things is especially important if the event is small to medium-size.
The Linux community cannot let Corporate-America do its usual sleazy fast-buck-get-out scams. The organizers of this show obviously didn't give a rat's ass about the image of Linux.
I find that this is a problem with the Linux movement, since there is no central body of representation, there can be no oversight of the use of the term "Linux". Anyone can do what they wish, and in this case, the community gets it in the shorts PR-wise.
I have to agree with many of the posters here who suggest that Linux users attend only a few well-known shows. I think the smaller-scale cities could benefit by meeting the organizers of these bigger events and "invite" the show over to their city, a-la Internet World show of a few years back. This trade show would "occur" about 6 times per year, in different cities each time. Sort of a travelling circus. Pun intended.
My $0.02
Re:Kansas Territory. (Score:1)
two of my favorites. look me up when you get to boulder. i'll be the only 20 year old in the city of littleton. Or, the only one without a 99 SUV purchased for me by my parents.
FluX
After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
Host LinuxFest in Omaha? (Score:1)
Thanks!
Where is the content? (Score:1)
linux/unix/bsd people are inherently cheap -- we have all of that free software. It does not exist? We make it ourselves.
We are also very smart.
I live in Arizona. Why am I am going to pay money to go all across the country to talk about subjects which I can find here on my system, on a one to one basis.
Consumerist middle America... (Score:1)
"The greater Kansas City area is not only one of the most conservative areas in the country, it's also an area where proprietary software reigns supreme in both server and workstation markets."
The real essence of M$ is that it provides a mass-market consumerist computing platform. Just buy it, put it on, and shut up. Then buy the new release/service pack, put it on, and shut up. When new features come out, buy it, put it on, and shut up. When the new features overrun your hardware, buy new hardware, and shut up.
That's the American Way®
Middle America, whether it be middle-aged white-guy IS managers, or just your average consumerist sheep, doesn't have a clue as to what Linux is all about, and really could care less!
To paraphrase the famous line about art:
"I may not know much about computers, but I know what I like."
Middle America likes Micro$oft, and doesn't see for a second why there is any question about the issue...
"Linux?"
"What? That communist-hippie crap? Forget it!"
t_t_b
--
Re:Location (Score:1)
Now, which is more interesting? Is it the fact that the guy really thought I was berating the midwest? Or is it the fact that he was too much of a coward to post his opinion on Slash himself, even as an AC?
Once again a Slashdot reader proves beyond any doubt that he is the intellectual equal to the rock sitting outside my front door. I know this is flamebait, but it's worth it. People deserve to know the response you get for trying to be honest on
I heard about it (Score:1)
I think that this shows two very important things to anybody hosting a show in the future:
1) People are cheap.
2) They don't go if they don't know.
Maybe if we're lucky they'll put on another show in a year, and run it well. It's not that there is no support for Linux in the midwest, but that we (still) haven't had a good opportunity to show our support.
Re:I could tell... (Score:2)
I for one haven't been as a consumer to a trade show since 1984 when I was heavily into the ZX Spectrum. I've been as an exhibitor since, so I've seen a fair few.
My conclusions? (I hope I'm not alone.) I really don't think I get that much from trade shows. Not all 'geeks' need to go and see their 'heroes' speak, or to get some marketting low-down on the latest release BogoServ 1.9B. Attendence just ain't worth it (for me) any more. Fatigue's set in perhaps?
Of course, geography, demographics and chronology didn't help this one either it seems.
FatPhil
Divine providence. (Score:1)
Instead we can blame it on divine providence: God hates Linux geeks, so she cursed the show.
Too little hype... (Score:1)
Too bad the turn out was so dissappointing...
No Publicity (Score:1)
I think of myself as fairly well informed.. I read slashdot daily, get the Linux Journal, and get some tech news pages on my palm with AvantGo, but I never heard this was going on..
Maybe I just missed it or something, but I sure heard alot about PC Expo...
wish
---
You've got to entice workers (Score:3)
So to have a well-attended show, you've got to convince me that it's worth it. You've got to convince me to want to convince my employer. How do you do that?
So many shows are perceived to be all the same, and just not interesting and unique enough. You've got to get the critical mass behind your show. Otherwise it's not worth it for me. That means it's not worth it for my employer. Going to a show free is the best scenario and one that every show's organizers should aim for.
-B
Marc Andreessen left the Midwest to make it (Score:1)
They're thinking of the Marc Andreessen story.
Netscape would have never changed the face of the Internet if its programmers had decided to stay in Illinois. I don't live in Silicon Valley myself, but you must admit that if you're a techie and want to make a difference, you had better live there (or within a 2-hour flight!).
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:1)
--
DeCSS source code! [metastudios.com]
you must amputate to email me.
Newsgroup (Score:1)
amyone?
Re:I could tell... (Score:2)
It could have worked. Their marketing sucked big time. They just needed to start small, as well. Maybe make it a bit more community oriented, let people get more involved? There are lots of ways to make a succesful show where people feel it was worth their time to go. This is not an example of that.
Virginia- Dead Penguins (Score:2)
I think Richmond Virginia would be an ideal location. Not as expensive as DC but within a two hour commute from DC and Tidewater Virginia (Newport News+Norfolk +Vieginia Beach). having never organized anything like this before I wouldn't know where to start. If I had big IPO bucks to spend I know I'd jump on a tradeshow in Richmond. This area is huge as far as govermnment and Military is concerned. If you even managed to talk a few ranking military leaders into shifting 10% of their stuff to Linux it would be a major coup. I know personally that many of these recent VBS bugs have practically shut down smaller military installations. Agruing for diversity in computer platforms wouldn't be a tough sell either.
Re:Why did only 300 people show up? (Score:2)
Kansas City is a fairly large city located in both Missouri and Kansas. Have you even been there? The advantage is the close location to many other cities. Be practical, its a lot closer to many people than the West or East coast.
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:5)
I agree that there are enough big-time shows already, but we need more Linux "gatherings" (or whatever you want to call them) that cost something like $50 ($25 students) to attend. You don't necessarily need a "big name" speaker at something like this, just a chance to share technical expertise and meet other Linux and Open Source enthusiasts.
Keep the whole thing small and simple, something for 200 - 400 people held in a (low cost) hotel instead of a convention center. Make it simple and inexpensive for vendors to attend, especially smaller vendors that can't afford the ever-growing cost and "booth inflation" of the big shows.
I have a major personal preference for small, humble Linux gatherings. They're more in the spirit of the true Linux community than shows that only corporate-backed people can afford to attend.
I believe regional gatherings should be held Friday and Saturday so that they give both the people who can get their employers to give them the day off, and those who are coming on their own time, a chance to be there. This is also an easier schedule for vendors, who can fly in on Thursday night, set up tabletops Friday morning, have a good time until Saturday, then break down their exhibits and fly out either Saturday evening or, because airfare is often a lot less if you stay over for a Saturday night, Sunday morning.
It's a lot more palatable for, say, Red Hat to send one or two people and a tabletop display that can be shipped via UPS to a regional meeting that only promises 300 or 400 attendees than it is for them to send a full-blown "trucked in" display and a dozen people to run it to a show ten times that size.
- Robin
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:2)
- Robin
The problem(s) (Score:2)
1) There are just too damn many trade shows, especially Linux-centric ones. People see YALTS (yet another linux trade show) and say 'yawn'.
2) It's in the Midwest, for crying out loud. I can see the draw of, say, Las Vegas. But Kansas? Nothing against Kansas, but combined with the yawn factor above, it seems to make things that much less interesting.
Location (Score:3)
Too many trade shows? (Score:2)
From one inside a trans-national-megacorp, it's hard to justify several trade show trips for the same stuff. I went the last Linux* show in San Jose last August and have considered traveling to one again mainly because of cost.
Since the backbone attendees to these shows are corporate types looking at the technology, you need to make it sensible to attend.
Perhaps two shows a year, one west coast and one east coast would be good, but too many shows = low turnout.
I can only imagine all the extra giveaways left over from the show. Time to call my buddy at VALinux and beg.
Re:Kansas == Bad Idea (Score:2)
The issue with most folks isn't driving and proximity -- people figure that unless they live in NY or Silly Valley that they'll be flying anyway. (Keep in mind the true goal of any geek worth his/her salt is to get as much free vacation time/clothing as possible by way of conferences and trade shows. They have to get the company to pay for the trip, so the trip has to be worth it.) The real issue is what value does a show like LinuxFest bring to the Linux "community" (gawd, I hate that word)?
Why should Red Hat, VA Linux, Corel, whatever spend time and money putting up a booth there? Is it worth it to them to expend those resources so they can cater to the attentions of people that are within driving distance? No way. They want maximum eyeballs.
You do that by getting your show noticed. People want to attend because of the cool speakers/panels/tutorials, companies want to exhibit because of the people, more people come because of all the companies. It's a self-feeding cycle. But one that cannot work more than a couple times a year. It waters everything down. It wasn't that LinuxFest was handled badly, it that it existed in the first place. Anything that needs artificial impetus to prop up its existence is doomed. It should grow on it's own. Slashdot didn't get popular because of a marketing campaign and a podunk show like this one wouldn't have been helped by one.
I say that if you can't get a company to pay your way, you shouldn't be worried about distance. You should be looking for quality. You should pick one or two shows that are large enough to give you maximum ROI on your time investment, spend the vacation hours, save the cash and go. Pick a show in New York or San Jose and be done with it.
-B
Re:Location (Score:2)
If you define "on the coast" as "in any state which borders the Atlantic or Pacific but not the Gulf of Mexcio (except for Florida)", then I think it's safe to say that the overwhelming majority of PEOPLE are on one of the coasts. That said, I think it's pretty idiotic to suggest (try it at work sometime; see what reaction you receive) that the businesses on the coast should only try to sell to the people on the coast.
... And too few volunteers ... (Score:2)
With the dearth of volunteers actually willing to be there to do easy things like Linux Demo Days and the likes, it makes little sense to try to plan to manage the Huge Event.
It seems to me to make more sense to make use of those visits of luminaries that already take place. And to use the "promotional events" that already regularly take place.
Are those not "promotional events"?
In any case, I can't take terribly seriously the criticisms of someone with so "willing" an attitude to take responsibility that they declare themselves to be an Anonymous Coward.
Regionals (Score:3)
There is a place for regional shows of Linux, technology, firms, and benefits. These should be geared to the level of local interest, however. We don't need every town of 100,000 with a LUG trying to sponsor LinuxWorld Expo. Good shows are a lot of work for all involved, including the organizers, vendors, keynotes, hands-on instructors, and attendees.
One model which seems appropriate to me is something akin to an installfest on steroids, aimed at low- and mid-tier local companies, showing what Linux is, what it does, how it can be installed, and how it can solve business needs. There have been several of these, aimed at gathering a few hundred local businesses plus local Linux talent. The forum is to showcase local Linux firms and consultants. There's also the option to bring in a few national firms for a low-key presence - a small demo but not a full-booth setup, with plenty of opportunities to interact with local businesses directly.
Linux is about fitting to the tool to the task -- let's think appropriate technology, or forums, here.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Scope out Kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org]
Re:This is a metaphor for Linux in general. (Score:2)
-1 Troll.
You might just as well say "The novelty of Windows is begginning to wear thin...Why can't I open postscript docs in windows? Why does windows bluescreen so much? Haven't they heard of memory protection?" and "Why do my graphics card drivers have to be WHQL certified?"
Linux is (mostly) stable (I will not get into a Linux vs. BSD rant; Suffice to say that linux is more stable than Win2k (in my personal experience) and pretty damn easy to configure. It also fits in well in any heterogenous environment, communicating with macs and PCs and novell and so on. Whether or not IBM, Corel, SGI, and the others support linux is irrelevant; Linux was here before they showed any interest in it, and it'll be here even if they back away from it.
Re:and the problem is.... (Score:2)
On the topic of SAP I was surprised at how much they were pushing linux. Had their chief linux zealot speak at the keynote session. They have contributed to the latest version of linux (so that SAP could run on it) and now use it as their defualt unix development platform.
KC is a god place for tech stuff BTW, there is more going on here than just mainframe shops & sprint. (We, for instance, write stuff for mobile devices as well as servers)
Good. Death to Linux corporatism. (Score:2)
Yeah, sure, Linux is the Next Big Thing. But guess what, greedy corporate pig-dogs, you're not invited to the party. It's not the same game, with a different team. It's a different game.
I could give a rat's ass whether Linux trade shows attract huge corporate sponsors and wall-to-wall crowds. Are these trade show failures supposed to imply impending doom for Linux? Hardly. They simply imply failure for business as usual.
Guess what, you won't become a billionare by using or distributing Linux. But it will proliferate regardless. If you don't get it, go ahead and ask your company to continue subsidizing the airline and travel industry by sending you to stupid trade shows.
The GPL is NOT ABOUT MONEY, STUPID!!!
Re:Guns & Linux? (Score:2)
It doesn't mean that any of these things are related to Linux.
However, upon closer inspection, I don't find it suprising that people who are into freedom of software are also into other forms of freedom, and guns are a freedom issue.
How could it possibly help promote Linux? Handling of firearms requires responsibility in the user like few other things. With all the This versus That wars that go on, one could argue that the Linux community could stand to learn some responsibility.
Why doesn't anyone complain about how Linux is linked with Beer?
Linux doesn't need trade shows? (Score:4)
I'm not saying trade shows are doomed, but there's probably a lot less need.
Too many shows; too few luminaries (Score:5)
That was one of the reasons why we incorporated, so that there would be a "shell" there around which such activities could grow.
But we concluded about a year ago that having "a Linux show" here would require really fine-tuning the purpose, in that there are just so many others.
This is not something that most would want as a career.
It's a lot of work to put on a show, whether it be small or large. It sounds like the Kansas group got overambitious, which is quite regrettable, as there will be some unfortunate fallout.
the other show (Score:5)
IMHO, while Linux people need their own conferences maybe twice a year, they should also go the BIG publicized conferences and take some of the limelight from the Proprietary world of computing....
A show in Kansas City? (Score:2)
I didn't hear a single word about this show until now. I'm only a couple of hours from KC, and I would have jumped at the chance to attend an event like this.
My god, next time you put on a show you should probably tell someone about it.
Very Badly Managed event (Score:4)
before the event was to happen.
First of all, very little advertising went
into this event.
Secondly, when I finally heard about it (only
when searching for linux events on yahoo) I
looked at the site and saw how badly prepared
they were for the event.
Honestly, four months before the event, they were
seemed to be still taking presenters. They didn't
mention keynote presenters or anything.
I opted to save my training time and money for
something that I thought would be better organized.
Even during the event, I heard of several technical problems - like during Eric Raymond's
speech.
There is plenty of Linux support in Kansas City,
we just need an event that is correctly managed.
Unfortunately, because of the showing of this
event, it may be hard to organize another one and
get vendor attention!
Ahh, such is life,
-Twivel
Re:Location (Score:2)
I'd have to say the slashdot in question would be you, I'm afraid. Come on, re-read that email. It is SO over the top, SO stereotyped that it can only be sarcasm! Do you really think the writer was serious? And if he was, why would he NOT post it on slashdot, where the whole world could read his righteous condemnation of you? I didn't write the email, but I could have - it's my kind of humor - Far-out exageration and stupidity for the purpose of humor.
BTW, the rock outside your door could be sentient and ignoring you, for all you know. After all, we take the skeletons of the most common kinds of rocks and use them to make computers. If the dead bodies of rocks can be made to simulate intelligence, what about the rocks themselves? I'll bet the Rocky Mountains are laughing at us right now, in our pitiful attempts to factor large semi-prime numbers.
Re:Kansas == Bad Idea (Score:2)
I was there, here's what happened. (Score:4)
What went wrong:
1) The event ended at five. Most techies work day jobs. The event organizer said he was expecting people would only want to come to a Linux event on company time, and couldn't CONCEIVE of people wanting to come on their own initiative. (Sigh.)
2) The event didn't SCALE. It was the first event in the area, and was set up to only be successful if it had THOUSANDS of people. Hundreds showed up, but it was a failure. It had a HUGE auditorium, which looked empty even with a hundred people in it. It stretched over five days, so that if a thousand people showed up overall that would be about two hundred a day. Jeff from The Linux Show (www.thelinuxshow.com) told me a lot about making efficient use of space (narrow the aisles so it seems more crowded, if vendors leave put in tables and chairs where their booths were. Worst case scenario the boundaries are drapes on racks, so move them in so the empty space is walled off...) For their first outing, they needed an event that could be successful with 250 people but scale to at least ten times that. Instead they had one that would be a BOMB if less than 5000 people showed up.
The event was TOO LONG for what it had. They had Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond, Maddog, Emmet, but they were almost all gone by Wednesday night. If they'd had all of them for a two day event (friday and satuday, one day fo people coming on company time one day for the independents), it would have been a much more dense and compelling argument. And if everybody they had had showed up in half the time, they'd have had twice as many people at any given time. :)
3) There was advertising. The guy who ran it lost $100,000, and probably $30-40k of that was spent on radio and television ads. Targetted terribly. The vendors who came could have provided lists of names for direct mailings (postal, not spam, it's not as annoying because the had to spend money to do it.) But the vendors really weren't involved except to show up. Neither were the LUG. Both groups could see evil afoot, but expected the show to succeed on the sheer momentum of Linux. They thought "have a show, and they will come". Advertisers say you need to get the word out to potential customers seven times before they even remember you. The SAME potential customers. Many people "heard about it" but not enough times to actually bother making a DECISION. People procrastinate, you've got to remind them you exist a lot before they deal with you at all.
4) A show needs about a year of preparation and a large staff. The guy running it didn't delegate anything to anybody. There were no dress rehersals. There were almost no pre-confirmed attendees. (THIS is why you give big discounts to early registration.) Nobody was doing tapes of the conferences. There was no reception for the press the day before the show opened (forcing all the vendors to set up their booths ahead of time).
5) The place was almost impossible to find. Clear directions how to get there should have been on the website, and emailed to all confirmed attendees, plus posted on Linux Today at least. LOTS more signage was needed as well.
6) It wasn't targeted AT anybody. Corporate purchasing agents? Managers? Professional programmers? College students? Did it have a central theme? Who was the show FOR?
Finally, the people I talked to knew what was wrong (all of the above other people pointed out to me when I asked), but didn't feel involved in the process. I was some nut who drove up from Austin and I got more changed (fruitlessly as it turned out) than a lot of the people who were there, just by talking to people.
In the end, I grabbed a lot of boxes of magazines and CD's left behind in abandoned booths (freebies they were going to give out that would cost too muc to ship back) to take back to Austin with me. I've already given out about half of them, put them in the hands of actual Linux users. That's how I see this: an experience that we should salvage what we can from. In learning, and in resources. :)
P.S. One of Eric Raymond's writings is how Linux convention organizers can learn from the decades of experience of SF-Con organizers. ANybody thinking of putting on a con, go read eric's site. It's good. And email jeff at thelinuxshow.com who had more good suggestions about organization than any other person there. If you want to email me, bounce off my (now AMAZINGLY stale :) web site. My address is there.
Rob
Re:Location (Score:2)
Re:Maybe people just didn't want to go to Kansas.. (Score:2)
to clear some things up.... (Score:2)
Lots of good hotels, nightclubs, casinos, a great airport, and lots to do.
And although there are some 4 LUGS here, none of the LUGs had ANYTHING to do with the planning or setup of this show. The LUGs even had to pay for their own stuff at the show. Linuxfest was *NOT* a community run event. It was run by a marketing company (they obviously aren't good at what they do..heh).
The members of the LUGs invested a huge amount of personal resources when they saw how bad the show was doing. They tried like hell to save it.
In the end, this shows me how strong the linux community can be. The LUG members, Larry, Bruce, Eric and Emmett all invested time and resources into trying to help this thing be productive, but it was just too screwed up to be saved.
Thanks to those who tried.
Linux in the Midwest (Score:2)
I don't think that is being cheap. I think it is reasonable. Why should I pay $300 just so I can go to an event where companies will try to sell me stuff? MLUG's event was free for attendees and very cheap for exhibitors -- I think we just asked for them to donate a door prize.
Had the entry fee for the KC event been $30 or less, I might have gone.
Re:The problem(s) (Score:3)
If you're fighting a battle to use Linux in Kansas, I don't imagine many companies would send you to Las Vegas for a Linux trade show on their expense tab.
From what I've seen of this fiasco, the main problem was that they tried to scale a new trade show in a new area into something much bigger than the local Linux communities could support in its first year.
Start small, and build it into something greater, not the other way around.