Giant Linux Boost From Washington Post 187
You've seen Penguin Computing's "Tux stomps Microsoft HQ" ad, right? It's the one with the caption, "Good evening, Mr. Gates, I'll be your server today!" This morning, when I opened up my copy of the Washington Post, that ad, in full color, dominated the entire front page of the business section. Below it was a story headlined, Microsoft's Next Trials - Windows Case Could Open Doors for the Upstart Linux Operating System. This may be the most unabashed piece of journalistic Linux advocacy ever published in a major daily newspaper. The print edition, but apparently not the Post's Web site, also contained a sidebar story about how the article's author installed Corel Linux on his home desktop computer -- and found it fairly easy to do. Indeed, he says, the hardest part of his personal Linux foray was parting with the high-end Linux-loaded Latitude laptop Dell loaned him to test. "It will pain me to give it back," he said.
Re:hmmmm (Score:2)
Linux Loving Sluts [stileproject.com]
Good clean fun!
Cheers
Costyn.
Re:Bug report on story header {Not} (Score:1)
If the ad was on the ENTIRE front page, how was there a story below it?
This isn't hard to understand. Dominate implies more than one party is involved and the party in question is reigning supreme (or grabbing the most attention) amongst all parties. Loners can't Dominate -- they have no Domain to rule.
There is no "bug" in the story headline.
See: the definition [dictionary.com]:
dominate
v. dominated, dominating, dominates.
v. tr.
- To control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power: Successful leaders dominate events rather than react to them.
- To exert a supreme, guiding influence on or over: Ambition dominated their lives.
- To enjoy a commanding, controlling position in: a drug company that dominates the tranquilizer market.
- To overlook from a height: a view from the cliffside chalet that dominates the valley.
v. intr.- To have or exert strong authority or mastery.
- To be situated in or occupy a position that is more elevated or decidedly superior to others.
[Latin dominr, domint- to rule, from dominus, lord; see dem- in Indo-European Roots.]Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:1)
Well, you do have to upgrade libraries if you're installing software that uses upgraded libraries - that's the whole point of including package dependencies in an RPM, right? Sure, there's no requirement that SuSe ship with the same library versions that RH does, but it is possible to upgrade the libraries if you are picking up software that requires later versions of them.
Since I installed Mandrake 6.1, 95% of the time that I go to download a package update I can find one that has been packaged by Mandrake - I've had zero problems with those. The remaining 5% I've had to install from tarballs, but even then I can't remember the last time that configure && make && make install didn't work correctly.
Sure, it's a little more work some times if you're mixing packages from different distributions, but I still don't know of software which would work on one distro and not another as long as the kernel and relevant libraries have correct versions.
Re:Yep, typical Testosterone Poisoning... (Score:1)
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
7:46pm up 22 days, 12:36, 3 users, load average: 0.39, 0.23, 0.11
that is with 2 netscape's open, netscape composer, xmms playing an mp3 (legal too), gaim, licq, 2 xterms, gqview, electric eyes and xchat running under gnome 1.2 with windowmaker 0.61.1... i'm experiencing no slow downs whatsoever. your stability argument, quite frankly, is untrue. win2k has better stability *than previous versions of windows*... it still does not beat a linux system. mine is used a good 10-14 hours every day, playing quake3 and mp3s and pushing it to the limit. 128 megs of ram. that's all. and it runs like a charm.
there are plenty of good reasons to switch. yeah, maybe we don't have ms office or visual c++, but linux is strong in other areas. anyone that argues otherwise is suffering from blatant ignorance. i experience better stability and speed from this box running linux than i ever did with windows (exact same hardware). all my software (except quake3 and unreal tournament) was *free* costwise, and most of it free in the sense that i can modify and distribute the source code. most people don't want to do that, but *i* do, and i'm not alone. furthermore, i like the ability to customize. when i used to use windows, i ran litestep because it offered me that, at least to an extent. with linux i'm able to switch window managers on the fly, even whole desktop environments. i can make my desktop look however i want. virtual window managing is far superior in linux desktop environments than its windows counterparts, and that helps me get done what i need to get done. i listed the current apps i have open - could you imagine all of that on a single desktop?
this is not to say that linux is for everyone. but your assertion that there is no reason to switch to linux is both silly and offensive.
--
DeCSS source code! [metastudios.com]
you must amputate to email me.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
How so? Most proprietary tools available on other programs (not mentioning any names (Visual C++, Visual Basic) or anything) are severely broken in terms of supporting standards and proper syntax.
Those tools are good for slapping out broken, severely buggy bloatware quickly, but not much else. GNU development tools are cross-platform, based on open standards, and are extremely robust. For instance, I wouldn't trade gdb for the broken, crappy debugger built into VC++ any day.
Re:How many of us are sick of M$ astroturf droids? (Score:1)
It's odd... the Slashdot readership seems to be changing. This site has always been pro free software and open standards, and anti proprietary software and closed standards.
On the contrary, I've been reading since
Incidentally, I looked at your user info, figuring I could ridicule you for a 6 digit id#. Instead, I'm wondering why you're linking to a Mac site if proprietary software is illegal.
So I wonder what draws all these trolling incoherently pro-MS people here, with their extremely thin arguments, and studied reluctance to ever engage an interlocutor by responding to a refutation.
Uh, yeah. Dismissing anyone who disagrees with you by declaring that they must be paid to do so, nothing thin about that argument. And, all what trolling pro-MS people? Where are they?
Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:1)
Re:How many of us are sick of M$ astroturf droids? (Score:1)
Re:Confused posters want it both ways (Score:1)
Re:hmmmm (Score:1)
-David T. C.
Re:Confused posters want it both ways (Score:1)
Actually, that is not the point of the lawsuit. The remedy has to be done to restore competition in the marketplace. It is not meant to punish Microsoft.
As some commentators have pointed out, the split up might increase the worth of stockholders like it did during the AT&T breakup and might make Gates even wealthier. But it is irrelevant.
Which is why the government can't just fine Microsoft. If Microsoft is not willing to change its business practices, as they have repeatedly said they wouldn't, then DOJ had to come up with a way to force Microsoft to change.
The choices were to regulate Microsoft or break them up.
FYI (Score:3)
At least they say that they are "working" when they come here. Then again maybe not as Pegorano seems to indicate [slashdot.org].
Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:2)
The distribution they chose: RedHat.
Now, I'm very familiar with Debian GNU/Linux. If I were left to choose, I'd have potato running on all these systems. However, this group relies, unfortunately, on some non-free software. The vendors of this software can only guarantee that it will run on RedHat, and the people in the lab are scared that things won't work properly on any other distribution. The result? I'm going to spend the next few months cursing RPM.
And you think fragmentation isn't a problem at all? [1]
Daniel
[1] of course, it mostly affects proprietary programs, so may not be particularly relevant unless you're unfortunate enough to have wedded yourself to one.
linux supporters want it both ways (Score:2)
They complain that MS products are difficult to use; at the same time they dismiss people who complain linux is difficult to use as "ignorant newbies", or simply "low IQ users".
They think they have brought MS to its knees, or are just about to crush it; at the same time they complain of MS having a monopoly.
They want linux to beat MS by being successful commercially; at the same time they ridicule any linux company that succeeds commercially for abandoning its free software, grass-roots principles.
They ridicule MS for only paying attention to something that makes money; at the same time they want MS to pay attention to linux as a serious competitor.
They reject the claim that linux supporters aren't responsive to the needs of average users; at the same time they reject the criticism of average users that linux is difficult to use, or that the community is insular and filled with zealotry and thus won't make it outside the geek base.
LL.
Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:1)
I'm the exact same way, and I have to agree with you, the Mandrake 7.1 install is *very* sweet.
Re:Bug report on story header (Score:2)
- Robin
Re:Mis-observation (Score:1)
all the developments closely (I'm a professional programmer in
the Windows environment but where I work we are watching
Linux closely), and I can count on the fingers of one hand the
number of times I've read or heard someone recommending that
secrataries learn LaTex! In fact, I can only recall one such
recommendation, and that one was repeated several times through
linking. So it's not like such a recommendation is standard fare.
WPO2000 or WP8 or Applix or StarOffice are all fine commercial
products that have excellent office apps in them. Where I work,
our 500+ workers standarized on WP8. Soon be KOffice and KWord.
When we switch to Linux, and I have no doubt that we will,
they will not notice any difference execpt one....
"Why don't I get that Blue Screen any more?"
The tide is rolling... and I am bringing myself up to speed on
programming in the Linux environment as rapidly as I can.
KDevelop 1.1 is helping that process nicely. Very powerful!
The CD issue will also drive people to Linux (Score:2)
Re:linux supporters want it both ways (Score:1)
Who says that you'll find any two of those opinions in the same person? Linux users tend to be a varied bunch and because of that you can't expect them to have non-conflicting opinions as a whole.
Re:Puh-lease. (Score:1)
Linux is excellent for locking down companies and keeping them dependent on your $upport. The heritage of the 'machine room' of times unknown (nobody allowed to touch the computer except specially paid men in white coats).
I remember a Xenix sysadmin at a company I worked at in the late 80s. People by that time had started migrating to Microsoft Word on PCs, and a secretary wanted a mouse so she could easily highlight and modify sections of text. 'Secretaries don't need a mouse' the admin ranted. He was already a little sour that people were moving away from using the 'Lyrix' word processor across an RS-232 line on dumb terminals. His power base was shrinking. He was still able to trap a certain number of people by making them run certain apps in VT-100 terminals on their PCs, but times were definitely a-changing.
Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:1)
Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:1)
virtual monopoly of Windows OS. Situation like that means less problems for customers and less problems for developers. No need to to shit your code with endless ifdefs etc
Linux lacks that and it shows. One way to solve that would be to create some base standard but, as we have witenesed with old Unix world, companies won't follow that just to diffirentiate themselfs from competition. It is the same story all over again.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
First of all it is slower than IE, second ( and this is specific to Unix lack of asynchronous hostname lookup routines) it hangs quite often doing DNS lokups. It is not fatal error or anything like that , just extremely annoying.
MOzilla is way better ( at least version for Windows ) so there is hope after all.
That's funny (Score:2)
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
On the desktop, people use applications, not operating systems, to get work done.
Until Linux gets some applications that are clearly superior to the ones in Windows, it will never get any significant penetration. People need a really good reason to switch, and there just isn't one when it comes to Linux -- but there are a whole slew of negatives.
I mean, what's the "killer app" in Linux for the desktop? There are no end-user apps that I can get that are better under Windows. With Win2K, Linux doesn't even have the stability advantage anymore.
This is so true.. Honestly, when I am reading mail and the web, I really dont care if I am booted into linux or win98. Furthermore, I dont even care what machine I am on.
The old amiga operating system from the 1000 days would probably be fine for 95% of todays computer users. The majority of people don't need a good OS, just a good set o widgets. That is why 90% of them are still using DOS.
I am sure that if people cared at all about OS, they would not be running DOS hidden under win98, and would cry out for a kernel based OS. The advantages of linux are simply unknown and unneeded by the average user. Most people dont have the time to learn perl, cron, the init scripts, regexps, bash, etc...and so never see the utility of linux.
On the other hand, I think that the 'killer app' will never come to linux, but instead the 'killer bonobo components' and 'killer containers' will eventually remove the need for giant monolithic apps, and greatly accelerate the development of desktop functionality. The GNOME people really have some good work in progress.
Must say.. (Score:1)
Re:Must say.. (Score:3)
http://www.penguincom puting.com/graphics/gamingtux800x600.jpg [penguincomputing.com]
Re:hmmmm (Score:1)
Re:Not the real Bruce Perens (Score:1)
--
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
due to the rush to ASP (application service providers) means that there will only be one application -- the browser.
Yeah, but at that point, there is no operating system, so who cares what you're running? Now, you could argue that this gives Linux the advantage because it's free. Still, there is a lot more to a development platform than just the kernel. If Microsoft continues to give excellent developer support (versus Linux where you're on your own), then the total costs will favor Microsoft.
In any case, I think we'll see some ASP-style business models have some success. But I don't think that it will replace the power of having native applications on a local machine.
--
"Torvalds is a hacker..." (Score:1)
Please don't start the "cracker" versus "hacker" debate. The author does a fine job explaining what he means here. It's clear.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
Bzzzt! The Linux development tools are available on almost every other Freenix and/or commercial Unix out there. Many are ported to even Windows and OS/2.
You will also find a lot of developers who do not consider them 'superior to anything else', and I am not just talking about Visual Basic or Access 'developers.'
Re:Must say.. (Score:1)
Re:How many of us are sick of M$ astroturf droids? (Score:2)
I think there are (at least) two schools of thought regarding ethics. One says that arguments about ethics merely rationalize our biologically (or otherwise) pre-determined gut feelings. A civilization which rests on this assumption about the relationship between reason and ethics is one in which action is valued more highly than words. Such societies will shoot first and ask questions later, so to speak.
The second type of view is one which holds that the justification for and consequences of ethical stances need to be clearly thought out. I think liberal democracies have traditionally tended towards the latter view of the ethical debate. In democracies, we (ideally) solve public problems by public debate rather than by civil war.
When you say something like "X is THE ethical (morally right) stance" you are saying, in effect, that such a position needs no argument in its defence. That is an approach that I'm sure won't be welcome in a forum like this which places great emphasis on vigorous debate over ethical issues. The very idea that there ought NOT to be differing viewpoints is frightening to many people. The analogy of the homicidal maniac differs from the MS vs. Linux debate in an important way. The unwillingness to listen to ethical debate and reason is the very definition of insanity, at least in legal terms. So the homicidal maniac story doesn't have another side PRECISELY BECAUSE the killer didn't have any justification for his actions. If he did, there certainly would be another side to his story.
What story is so antithetical to civil society that it should NOT be told? Denial of the Holocaust? Racist diatribes? How does it help the cause of Jews to silence critics like Ernst Zundel? It's not OK to hate people just because of their skin colour or religion, but it's also not OK to prevent people from speaking because their words might offend someone. Inciting violence or conspiring to do injury to someone is a criminal offense, so we already have laws that can protect citizens against physical threats. We don't need to limit speech any more than that.
This seems off topic, I know, and many people have said these things better than I. Still, the importance of free speech cannot be overstated. It only damages the cause of Free Software to limit debate about alternatives.
That being said, I'm a Linux user and advocate and I too disapprove of some of the things that MS has done. But to prevent alternatives from being discussed would be to steal a page from Microsoft's own playbook.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
Heh. That's pretty funny. Try to do anything vaguely complex with templates in gcc, then we'll talk.
[VC++, etc.]
Irrelevant. Bloat is about the programmer, not the tools.
For instance, I wouldn't trade gdb for the broken, crappy debugger built into VC++ any day.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, of course. I guess I just disagree, that's all. I know that Emacs supports inline debugging from gdb, but in my opinion it's not as nice as Visual Studio's integrated debugging. And what exactly is "broken" about VC++'s debugger?
It all boils down to opinions.
roff (Score:1)
Software that's "so easy to use you don't need to train people", used by people who simply don't know how to use it through no fault of their own.
hmmmm (Score:4)
--
Re:Nice Article (Score:2)
You want to know who is really getting ripped off by Microsoft's quest to make money. The small businesses...
Believe it or not, they are starting to catch on. I'm starting to have people ask me out of the blue to help them convert. It's scary.
And law offices in particular have always tended to stay away from M$ Office and preferred WordPerfect and the like. Among other things, Office has had security problems way beyond the worms and VB scripts, like the way a single document file contains multiple drafts of a document... I've heard of law firms using that hole against people they negotiate with, to look at their first draft of a proposed contract. All that needs to be done to make sure Linux succeeds, IMHO, is to make sure they run into a friendlier version of Linux than Red Hat, which seems to have problems.
Re:"Torvalds is a hacker..." (Score:1)
Re:Everything2 (Score:1)
It is a major paing for the customer to figure out which set of libraries is missing on theis system. Just look at the commercial software available for Linux - most of it is complete static link
Mis-observation (Score:1)
Hm. I was under the impression that the author actually read /. -- if so, he would come upon all kinds of ardent Linux lovers who are quite deluded about the readiness of Linux as a "mainstream consumer product." But maybe he was just being charitable...
Herbie J.
Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:1)
What;s even more funny, half of RPM's created for RH 5.2 won't even install on laters RH distro.
Forgot One Thing (Score:1)
Uh, no (Score:1)
Admitedly the use of the word "entire" was redundant - it could have been "that ad, in full color, dominated the front page", but is this slashdot or grammardot?
Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:1)
--
DeCSS source code! [metastudios.com]
you must amputate to email me.
Linux adds done right (Score:1)
___
Re:linux supporters want it both ways (Score:1)
That's because "they" are over-generalising about MS products. There is some truth in what "they" say, but it is generally untrue.
> they dismiss people who complain linux is difficult to use as "ignorant newbies"
That's because "they" are over-generalising about new linux users. There is some truth in what "they" say, but it is generally untrue.
As you say, "they" want it both ways. But you are overgeneralising about linux users. There is some truth in what you say, but it is generally untrue.
Re:linux supporters want it both ways (Score:5)
Tell me, what's your secret? How is it possible to fit so much stereotyping in just one single message?
Have you just gone through previous Slashdot discussions, picked up anything that any given "Linux supporter" ever said, and taken that as representative of the thoughts, desires and beliefs of the entire "Linux supporter" community? It sure seems like it.
You might as well finish off by claiming that all Windows users are MS-loving zombies, or that all Mac users are braindead graphic designers.
If this is the kind of stuff you post to Slashdot on a regular basis, then it's a tribute to the idiocy of the moderation system that you've managed to get the +1 score bonus.
Re:linux supporters want it both ways (Score:2)
Perhaps you ought to read the Advocacy HOWTO. I'm on record as saying, several times now, that Linux' "Success" is not defined as "commercial", nor as count(bums on seats). The last thing I'd want is for an intelligent OS to become something the majority of folks don't know ***-all about; I want a decent community where everyone "in" the community knows lots, and the size of the community is enough to send a high-quality signal.
From what I remember, Bob Young is also known for the same approach - none of this slagging-off stuff, just make the point that linux stays up longer and does a lot of things better; then folks will move over to using it as they realise it's better for them. Positive advocacy only, please?
What I really don't understand is the crap about "Linux, a computer operating system found on a tiny but growing minority of computers worldwide". D'oh!
~Tim
--
Re:hmmmm (Score:5)
I for one am not tired of the anti-Microsoft sentiment I see in this community.
First, this is the world that Microsoft created. They set the tone of the software industry very early on. Specifically, I'm thinking of that enraged letter Gates sent to the Altair community about the pirating of his BASIC interpreter. The letter was extremely unprofessional, whiny, and combative. It set the tone for the industry, and he and his company have kept it up ever since. Dirty tricks, lies, and outright illegal behavior are the rule of the day with Microsoft, as shown quite clearly in the antitrust trial. Being anti-Microsoft, to me, means being against that sort of corporate behavior. So I'm not tired of people being anti-Microsoft.
But that's not the only reason I'm not tired of it. The other reason is that Microsoft has made my life much harder than it would otherwise be. If they hadn't used illegal practices to dominate the industry, my life would be much better. Because in that case, either better products from other companies would be the standard, or Microsoft itself would themselves have produced products actually worthy of the industry leader. Either way, my life as a computer professional would be much better. Instead, they chose to use illegal practices to make their inferior products the standard. Again, this is a very valid reason to be anti-Microsoft.
So, while I sometimes abhor the tactics used by some members of the community, my feelings parallel theirs. And I can't really blame the most ardent Microsoft haters, given Microsoft's criminality, immorality, and general disrespect for its customers.
Being anti-Microsoft is simply the right thing to do.
-Joe
Linux will never fragment! (Score:1)
The problem was that other UNIXes fragmented the market by adding proprietary add-ons, making it impossible for them to work together. However, this can only happen in a proprietary environment. This can never happen when users understand that proprietary software inevitably leads to market fragmentations, hijacking of standards, etc. etc. etc.
This is one thing that the open source movement is wrong about. They succeed in spreading the business model to the rest of the world, and that is a Good Thing(tm), but they fail to spread word about the evils of proprietary software. With licenses such as X or BSD, anyone can make exploit loopholes in the software to create an incompatible version, thus leading back to the old fragmentation problems that Linux rose from the ashes thereof.
nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
Okay: When it comes to desktop productivity, *I* use linux because *I* believe it's better. *I* can not do my job effectively without linux. *I* can not even read my mail effectively without linux. I don't care what other people use.
Personally, I choose whatever tool works the best. Unix for the server (Linux is not even the best version of Unix, by the way), Win2K for the desktop apps.
Agreed, there are better un*ces out there. I have chosen the best tool for my purposes (granted, when I started getting away from winblows (being a zealot again) a few years back, *BSD was *much* more difficult to install and configure, so I went the linux route). Other people can use what they want.
--keith
Re:Feh (Score:1)
In the end, your numbers end up sounding like FUD.
Re:Slightly off-topic: pet peeve "Upstart" OS (Score:1)
Unix's traditional domain? You mean those huge RS-232 networks of dumb terminals we finally were rid of in the late 80's at most progressive companies? Surely you're not going to claim the 'PC Revolution' happened merely so people could have screen savers on their desks....
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:1)
Re:400 million less ......three (Score:1)
Ocean Barb
Totally TOTALLY disagree (Score:3)
And what exactly is wrong with 30-person companies full of geeks? What exactly is wrong with allowing a little attitude in your purchasing? I suppose your preference is a cold corporate just-the-facts approach, where companies trot out bogus benchmarks a-plenty, and marketing means deciding once again to make the cases putty-colored. Penguin Computing gives their T-shirts away with purchases instead of solely at trade shows where half the browsers are there for the free stuff.
As long as they put together excellent products, (and Penguin Computing does, IMO,) a company gets many bonus points with me if they have an attitude and a sense of humor.
--
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
(You have a dell don't you?)
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:4)
Isn't it obvious? Linux' killer application, right now, is development tools. The development tools, right now today, are clearly superior to anything offered on any other platform. Why do you think Linux has been able to attract so many software development geeks?
<soapbox mode: on>
Remember, Windows didn't always have superior applications to other alternatives. When Windows 3.0 was first introduced, the superior applications were on the DOS and Macintosh platforms (which is why Windows 3.0 beat out OS/2; better DOS compatibility). The fact that M$ developed what were then superior development tools to what was on DOS or Macintosh is exactly what M$ claims is the reason for the flocking of developers to its platform, and thus, ultimately the development of large numbers of applications, and the eventual superiority of those applications.
(While this claim is not entirely true, there is some element of truth to it.)
The point is, folks, that we're there. We've arrived. Now its time for the developers in the open source community to stand up and write those superior apps. There are a lot of things going on this arena (KOffice, GNUOffice, etc.) and its going to take time before we stop playing catchup, but if, and only if, we are willing to stick with it, and continue the fight, these superior applications will come.
My belief is that the key area where Linux developers need to concentrate on, once we get the basic office apps out of the way, is in the area of Internet-enabled apps. This is where MS and everyone else is headed, this is where we need to head as well. But we have the key experience that no one else has: many open source developers were on the Net before there was an HTML or a World Wide Web. This is an area where we have a chance to shine. Furthermore, developments in mobile technologies and embedded devices are equally as important, and we have some key players in these areas already, with Transmeta and others doing stuff for mobile and embedded devices...
My point is that the future is not as bleak as many who are not forward-thinking might expect. We won't be chasing MS forever, and eventually, we will succeed in "total world domination, but in a good way."
<soapbox mode: off>
Penguin ad does have problems... (Score:2)
The first part of this message is just flamebait, and I'll take as much anti-MS material as I can get. However, I agree the Penguin ad definitely has issues. Although it may be amusing because everybody just loves the penguin (I actually don't), it's rather ineffective (not to mention a cliche). Using a giant Penguin is an exercise in preaching to the choir. It doesn't really attract a new audience because you have to know something about Linux to get the "joke."
If the Linux is interested in displacing MS for business products and services, there's going to have to be a more effective approach. The suits won't get anything out of such an ad.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Re:hmmmm (Score:3)
As far as I can tell it simply makes Linux look like the favourite OS of young geeks who don't make decisions in companies. It says nothing about the product, it doesn't even say anything about MS products, it simply preaches to the converted, and looks juvenile and silly.
I said as much to Penguin Computing when it first came out and never got a reply. I make purchasing decisions for my company I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. The advert just screams "Hi, we only really want to sell to 30-man companies full of geeks who will be wowed by our free T shirts".
I dunno, maybe it's just a US thing, the gung-ho anti-competitor advertising (adverts in th UK are not allowed to mention competitors).
But yeah, it sucks.
World Domination (Score:2)
Why does linux have a chance?? Heres why. One reason is mind share... Linux is an enormous hit amoung the college crowd- some of the best minds out there are cutting their teeth on Linux. There is little to do in Windows that hasn't been done already (or is too big for new programmers). On the other hand Linux is a work in progress which attracts people who like to program. It was the same in DOS's early days... it was grossly inadequate so 'hackers' started writing tools to make it better. Unfortunately in the case of DOS... Mickysoft absorbed the improvements and called it their own "innovation".
Another reason is that peoples needs for a computer are really quite basic. People think they need Word & Excel... but they really don't... they just need a good word processor and spreadsheet. Linux already has a few good choices for that (Corel Office is what I use... works awesome!), StarOffice & Applixware. People want web access... Still waiting on this one (Netscape is a piece of ****) but Konqueror looks very promising with it's support Java and netscape plugins. Lastly what they need is a fairly intuitive desktop environment. KDE2 looks like it will be a huge step forward in that direction (or Gnome if your into that kind of thing). The recent success of Apple computers and (WebTV perhaps) somewhat reconfirms my theory on this, that if a computer fullfills a users basic needs- it really doesn't matter which software it's running. Therefore- if Linux continues to improve as fast as it has, and it stays at it's great low price- It is quite possible that it will achieve World Domination in time.
too bad (Score:2)
certainly, that's part of the appeal, but it seems that linux is being pigeonholed as nothing more than an inferior alternative for people who hate microsoft.
I'm not sure of a good way to do it, but I'd think Linux would benefit greatly if we could find a way to change the image from "not microsoft" to "a kickass operating system you'll love" it seems the second message is more important, but it's usually drowned out by the first.
maybe this is obvious to everyone, but I'd like to see a way to accomplish it. Most of the more "high profile" linux people have already taken this position. Perhaps when we all talk about how great linux is, we shouldn't always try to mention how much windows sucks (hell, it's already known by most people that windows hasn't improved at all since 1995, other than crashing a bit less than it used to.)
I'm one of the deluded linux fans who really thinks linux has a very good chance at the desktop market. In fact, I'm counting on it. Not all of us only use linux for servers... hell linux already has mastered the server market, it'd be a waste to stop there.
________
1995: Microsoft - "Resistance is futile"
Confused posters want it both ways (Score:5)
They think that because one person says something it is representative of the whole community; at the same time they just do not understand that it is possible for two people out of the thousands to see things a different way.
SATIRE=OFF
Seriously, some people think that MS _does_ need to be punished, while others think that free market forces will destroy it anyway.
Don't you get the fact that two people can have opposing viewpoints? By labeling a whole mass of unique people as "linux supporters", one overlooks the wide range of opinions contained therein. It is easy to mock a community by pointing out contradictions, ignoring the fact that there are always differences in the opinions of the community.
nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb
Re:Yep, typical Testosterone Poisoning... (Score:2)
I recognize at least one of those photos from Vogue magazine, or maybe it was Glamour. I bought one of those the other day for my daughter. You know, a magazine published for and popular with millions of women readers. Of course the model didn't have the penguin tattooed on her in the orginal photo. That's an overdub or palimpsest or whatever.
Nor was it originally captioned as she was a "slut." That's rather tasteless, but jeez, you should see the rest of the site [stileproject.com]. No, maybe you shouldn't. "Good morning, I have syphilis."
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
Re:FYI (Score:2)
>that they do visit the site now and then.
A little more frequently than "now and then," but a little short of daily. And as for whether it's work, I guess I'd quote Frost (from memory, so I'll probably screw it up):
But yield those who will to their separation
My goal in living is to unite my avocation and my vocation
As my to eyes make one in sight.
Only when love and need are one
And the work is play for mortal stakes
Only then is the job really done
For heaven and the future's sakes.
By the way, I didn't really see the story as advocacy. But I did want readers to understand WHY people are so damned excited about this operating system, and the broader movement.
John
Re:Compatibility (Score:2)
Plenty of people seem to think that Linux can take over from Windows and MacOS within the foreseeable future. While this sort of issue remains, it's not even close.
If an OS is going to suceed, it has to be usable by a total technophobe who thinks Macs are complicated. Sure, you or I may not have a problem routing through an RPM and installing it manually, but your average Clueless Wonder Newbie isn't going to even think of that. If it doesn't just work, it's broken and useless. As for recompliling to your machine, forget it - unless the installation system does it automatically, which we have discussed in KOSH.
In practice, they may not actually be incompatible. You may well be able to make it work properly without too much effort. But, for your generic newbie - or experienced user at that level of knowledge, who's surprisingly common - it's incompatible, end of story.
Not the real Bruce Perens (Score:2)
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Re:World Domination (Score:3)
Boise, who also represented IBM in their big anti-trust case, told Neukom before chagres were files, "You know, once the United States government files suit against you, everything changes. People are more willing to come forward and testify against you. Others are more willing to question you, resist you. The whole world changes."
Microsoft's biggest asset before the trial was that it was preceived as being invincable. Nobody has betten Microsoft. Even IBM has lost to Microsoft. That perception has changed after Microsoft's bumbling defense.
Now Dell, Compaq, etc. are willing to risk Microsoft's wrath by offerring alternative OSs on their computer. Something they would have never doen before the trial. AOL and Gateway have even gone as far as to totally eliminate the Wintel duopoly from their set-top box.
And, don't forget the free publicity Linux has received because of the trial. I don't recall seeing any article even mention Linux before the trial. However, the week after Microsof's lawyers haeld up a box of RedHat in the courtroom and declared that "This is our competition", almost every newspaper carried at least a "What is Linux" sidebar. Redhat, SuSe, Caldera, etc. can't purchase that kind of advertising.
Microsoft's defenders still continue to increase the Linux mindshare. Almost every article or opinion piece I have read attacking the court's remedy as "too draconian" point to linux as a viable competitor.
This presents Microsoft with a no-win PR problem. On one hand, they must portray Linux as a viable competitor in order to attack the court's remedies. On the other, they must belittle Linux as a toy OS written by long-hair kids in their basements and garages.
Re:Bill's Microslaves at work on SlashDot... (Score:2)
A better list was quoted in the very same Washington Post Business section in the article directly beneath the Linux article:
"Responded Ellison: 'Microsoft has four stages in stealing someone else's idea. [The article details the Internet appliance (read Network Computer) battle, specifically Oracle-bankrolled NIC Co. vs. the gaggle of devices now shipping, including M$oft's] First is "This is really stupid." Then it's "This is stupid, but there are interesting things about it." Third is "We have a version, and ours is better." And the fourth is "What are you talking about? We invented it." That's what Bill calls innovation.'
(sigh)Oh does anyone read this far down and moderate anyway ?
Some of the nicest people I've ever played Koricky with were Microsoft PMs and coders, and if any of them still worked there...
...well they, better than anyone, knew it was over years ago.
400 million less one (Score:3)
Perfect quote, sums up my feelings except for one thing: I'm sure glad that *I* was one of the 400 million Windows users that got converted in the slipstream.
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ha ha (Score:2)
However, here's something to think about: KDE 2 has a built-in office suite [kde.org], and it is able to import MS Office documents. When KDE 2 is ready for release (probably later this year), it will represent a threat to Microsoft on the desktop to some degree, no doubt about it. It is super easy to use, and even uses some simplified terminology, for average Joes.
Now I realize that you're just trolling for Bill, but I hope others that begin to buy into your BS, will take a look at KDE 2, as it really makes Linux simple enough to use for just about anyone.
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Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:2)
With 150+ distros, you don't call this fragmentation? Programs that only run on 1, 2 or 3 of the 150+ distros is not fragmentation?
Fragmentation comes from a desire for market differenatation, the desire of a company to take a commodity product and make it unique. And, lo and behold, given software only works on a few versions of Linux, I'd say the fragmentation has already happened.
Re:It's really not a fight (Score:2)
Still, if you've looked at *any* of the research OSes in the past ten years or so, you'll see that Unix is pretty crippled. Linux is fine for the here-and-now people, but it if it ever becomes the standard, it won't last for long. Eros looks like it might be user-usable within the next five years (assuming the developers don't get bored with it); the Hurd is fairly usable right now (I can vouch for this because I use it every now and then...now if only my network card worked in it *grumble*), and Debian GNU/Hurd might hit 1.0 within two or three years; Plan 9 (does this count as a "research OS"?) looks pretty cool, and I understand it is definitely usable, too. There are others (including an exokernel from MIT (?) that looks pretty neat).
The point is: Unix is OK, but it's not great. It's inflexible; it's inconsistent; it's illogical in parts (a large part of it seems to be quick hacks without much thought). The only thing it has going for it is that it's more flexible, more consistent, and more logical than the popular OSes in many respects. And it's free, of course. If it ever becomes a standard, though, you'd better hope it's short term.
Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:3)
As others have pointed out, he did try to install Corel Linux and found it to be easy.
I just wanted to jump in here and mention that, a few weekends ago, my wife and I took some time and tried lots of different operating system installs just for the heck of it. We performed the installs on my computer, which normally runs SuSE 6.4 quite well. Epson Stylus Color 740 printer, 3Com 3C905B ethernet, external modem, SoundBlaster AWE64 sound card, Sony 100GS monitor, and Diamond v550 video card. Pretty mainstream, boring hardware (except maybe the printer).
The OS's/distributions we installed were:
- Debian GNU/Linux
- Corel Linux Deluxe
- Red Hat Linux 6.2
- Slackware 7.0
- SuSE Linux 6.4
- OpenBSD 2.6
- FreeBSD 3.3
We just went through the installs of each, accepting the defaults and pretending we knew nothing of UNIX, but did know the names of our hardware devices. We were going for typical consumer knowledge level.
Using that methodology, Slackware didn't install - it bombed out trying to write LILO to the floppy, then said it couldn't write it to the hard drive either. Said there wasn't space on the floppy or the hard drive (16GB hdd). I fooled with it a bit and eventually got it installed, though I had to use more than general consumer knowledge to do so. Once installed, it was OK, but it didn't detect any of my hardware. Not a good consumer distribution.
Debian installed OK, but all those questions after it's copied the packages to the disk were horrid. Of course, Debian doesn't try to be a consumer OS, so this probably isn't a fair assessment of the distribution itself. The fact remains though that a consumer would have a horrible time with it.
Corel Linux seemed pretty slick, but it didn't detect much more than our monitor, mouse, and video card for us. Setting up the printer, modem, and ethernet was our problem after installing, and no consumer's going to know how to do that. Oh, and it left us with a blank root password, which is really bad. Again, not something I'd recommend for consumers.
Red Hat was about the same as Corel (although it spontaneously spit out the CD and rebooted during the package install phase the first time around; I had to re-start the process thereafter and it went smoothly). It detected what Corel Linux did, and again left it to us to figure out printer configuration and so on after the install. Again, not for your average consumer.
SuSE Linux 6.4 was the best. We'd been upgrading right along, so hadn't used yast2 at all. Well, I'd tried out 6.3 at work, and hadn't been impressed with it. But 6.4 does it right: it detected
OpenBSD's install was elegant...if you're a UNIX afficianado. Following the examples in the little booklet that comes with the CD would be fine, but the result would be an install that gives you no pre-setup hardware beyond a network card. You'd have to run XF86Setup yourself to do monitor, video card, and mouse. And as for printers, well, you'd have to roll your own filter/driver setup. Same with the sound card. Definitely not for consumers. (I love it as a server OS, though, and as I mentioned in a previous post, we use it there now.)
FreeBSD was pretty much like the average Linux install. No recognition of the sound card, printer, or even the modem, but the normal setup does give you an opportunity to get the X stuff going. It's not automated, though, and would be very confusing for the average consumer. Again, not a consumer level OS.
So, of those we checked out, the only one I'd recommend for consumers is SuSE 6.4. It does it right. Of course, after it's installed, the user will have to learn some UNIX admin stuff over time, but out of the box he or she will get a very usable workstation.
As for me, I ended up switching to FreeBSD. As someone who knows UNIX well enough (and who enjoys learning new things), it was the ideal OS for me. I ordered 4.0 and the Handbook, and I've been happily using it since then.
Feh (Score:2)
Everything2 (Score:4)
" In other words, total world domination.
But in a good way."
This is exactly the atraction to Linux and open source in general. Companies competing to add features while making all the source available back to users to prevent lock in. Users can't loose.
Right now, you can get the same thing from ms, but everything they do is a "trade secret" protected by the never ending patent called DCMA (Digital Copyright Millenium Act). This locks in users to the ms way, like it or not.
This will be the second big shift in the computer industry in recent years. IBM lost share in the 80s and ms will loose share 2000 and beyond and the timing of Linux and open source couldn't have been better.
___
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
You know, when you make posts like this and use terms like "windoze", it makes you sound like a mindless zealot who refuses to see reality.
What's the ''killer app'' in Windoze for the desktop?
Oh, innumerable games, Photoshop, Illustrator, printing that works right for complex docs, IE (which is far superior to anything -- if you can't admit that, that's a sure sign that you aren't facing reality), Quicken, Quickbooks (or Peachtree, take your choice), Filemaker, Quark, Pagemaker, and yes, Office, which is far superior to any other suite on Linux (unless you're writing a letter to grandma, in which case StarOffice is fine). Do I really need to go on?
And as you admit, all the Gnu tools run fine on Win2K. I use them all the time, in fact.
Face it, when it comes to desktop productivity, you are not using Linux because it's better. You are using it because it's not Microsoft. That's fine if that's a good enough reason for you. But at least be honest about the reason.
Personally, I choose whatever tool works the best. Unix for the server (Linux is not even the best version of Unix, by the way), Win2K for the desktop apps. I have to say, it's nice to see clearly rather than waste time with inferior software (e.g., Netscape).
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Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
Anyway, I decided I'd play around with Win2k for a bit and then get LILO working again and go back to Linux for real work. I haven't yet though - no need to. Win2k does everything I need for a desktop (besides development, but I do that mostly on my Alpha anyway.) I use 3D Studio MAX, Bryce 4, Photoshop (although I like Gimp better), Illustrator (Linux's Illustrator-wannabees are terrible - ever try KIllustrator? Ugh), Poser, Painter 6, Internet Explorer 5, Microsoft Word (occasionally... I prefer vi with LaTeX or DocBook though
Until I upgraded from NT4 to Win2k, working in Windows was painful and I did it as infrequently as possible, but Win2k is very pleasant to work with, and relatively stable too.
Don't get me wrong - I love Linux, and I use it for all my server tasks (all my data is stored on my Alpha running Samba, I can't risk letting Win2k fuck it up. Windows is only for running Apps, IMHO, storing important data under Windows is a mistake), and my email and web server [baked.net] is running on the Alpha as well, but Win2k definately stomps Linux in the desktop area. Even for me, a hardcore Unix user.
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Re:Confused posters want it both ways (Score:2)
That's not really contradictory; I myself hold both views.
Consider: "Why send the murderer to jail when he's going to die in a few years?"
Do you see my point?
Re:Confused posters want it both ways (Score:2)
What happens in cases like this is that you generalize and say something like "Slashdot posters don't like Microsoft" (something remarkably common in most media articles about slashdot). Now you could say that these journalists are unfairly stereotyping
Similarly, based on the general viewpoints of a group, one makes generalisations. Various media articles portray OS supporters in specific ways:
Amiga users - nostalgic, loyal supporters of a bygone OS
Mac users - die-hard graphics intensive bunch
linux users - geeky hackers who like networks and OS fundamentals
windows supporters - "average newbie" types who bought what everyone else is buying.
You might say these portrayals are unfair, but they encapsulate the general attitude of the group. If you were to claim that each user of the above has his/her own attitude, no such group characterisation would be possible, since you'd be stereotyping all those people with unique viewpoints.
Most of the responses are to the effect that I'm generalising the diverse and unique viewpoints of various linux supporters, and viewing the entire community as a whole. This is pretty much the case. We all generalize groups with distinct identities, in an attempt to summarise their attitude, behavior, etc.
In short, what I wrote was based on what I read on
This is why linux supporters have acquired a well deserved reputation for being zealots who won't see another point of view. As evidence, I present to you the responses to my post.
LL.
Re:Confused posters want it both ways (Score:3)
"...and after all, in his old age, he can't kill too many more people...so why bother stopping him?"
Re:hmmmm (Score:2)
Where would we be if Microsoft didn't exist?
Lets examine this...
Did Microsoft create the Internet? Was it built on or with anything Microsoft created? Did Microsoft even have a hand it in? No...
Did Microsoft develup any of the technologys we use today? Or any technologys at all? No
The first kit computer might have had no Basic becouse no one would make it for them. Net impact... Maybe home computers of the 1970s to 1980s would have had something other that Basic built it... maybe... we arn't even shure of that..
IBM PC was originally going to have CP/M 86 preinstalled... instead it had Dos.. pritty much the same thing only cheapper... So the IBM PC might have been $50 cheapper... Let's see I couldn't afford a $20,000 PC but I could afford a $19,950 PC...
Oh and Windows... Microsoft Windows was the THIRD attempt... the FIRST attempt would be GEM OS... and GEM OS sucked...
Hack... Digital Research not only made the operating system Dos replace and Windows replaced but in all likelyhood Digital Research would have pulled the same stunts Microsoft pulled... given the chance... so the net impact...
If Microsoft never existsed....
I wouldn't have had such an easy argument explaining why the Digital Research Monopoly wasn't centeral to todays technology....
Micrsoft has done nothing... but chance the names and faces...
Re:Linux will never fragment! (Score:2)
What programs are those? I've seen software that's marketed as only RedHat, for example, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work on other distributions. I haven't had any problems with software being distribution-specific.
How many of us are sick of M$ astroturf droids? (Score:3)
It's odd... the Slashdot readership seems to be changing. This site has always been pro free software and open standards, and anti proprietary software and closed standards. That's the ethical stance to take, and there's no more necessity to present the other side of the story than there would be to present "the other side of the story" than the mainstream media would do when reporting on the arrest of a homicidal maniac.
Objectivity in media is, in any case, a lie, invented by wire services so that they could sell their canned reports to both left and right wing newspapers. Every publication is informed by the views of its management and staff ; it's more honest to do as Slashdot does, and just declare your biases up front.
So I wonder what draws all these trolling incoherently pro-MS people here, with their extremely thin arguments, and studied reluctance to ever engage an interlocutor by responding to a refutation. It frightens me to think that people might be such dupes as to actually think that MS has been a force for good (other than MS employees, who have plenty of motivation to deceive themselves, or who take comfort in the positive efforts of their own ethical group within the belly of the beast (remember though the admonition that it is impossible to do good within an evil system - this is what i try to live by, though i realise that many sincere and intelligent people disagree))... so, in order to avoid the yawning chasm of that thought, i prefer to believe that these pro-MS trolls are one guy at an IP-spoofed terminal at Redmond Marketing.
Please let it be so.
[ hypermedia | virtual worlds | human interface | truth | beauty ]
Lies, Hostility, Other Basics of Capitalism (Score:2)
Now...lies. When companies make products, they generally hire a bunch of people whose job it is to say that the product does good things, and not say that it does anything bad. These people are known as "marketing dudes". It is their job to tell lies, and they use space on printed paper and short intervals of time between predictably formulaic TV programmes to say how good the product it. These are known as "advertisements", and are a sophisticated and more entertaining form of lies. (Sometimes these go on forever, and these are known as "infomercials", and were invented by Ross Perot).
Sometimes, a company gets a brilliant idea - they can make their product in a certain way, so that other products can interact with their products only as they like it. These are called "standards". Companies battle over these to the death (see "beta vs. VHS", "AC vs. DC", "viagra vs. rhino horns") and the winner makes lots of $$$. The loser gets nothing.
Now, let's consider 2 scenarios.
1) All companies in the software industry were hostile and have always ruthlessly lied and cheated to gain the upper hand, using the techniques described above.
Or...
2) Before Microsoft came along, the software industry was veritably like the garden of eden. Companies cooperated and followed standards, and never tried to use their dominance (example - IBM with its mainframes, DEC with their servers). Everything was cheap and plentiful, and all the companies lived in harmony. There were no lies and hostility. Then came along evil Microsoft. It introduced an atmosphere of fear and hatred and hostility and lies. Companies started HATING each other and trying to DESTROY one another. And that's when the rot began. If Microsoft had not been around, none of this would have happened, and we would have lived in a wonderful world of magical soft music and nicely interacting software and hardware that meshed flawlessly to create a universe of little red LEDs and undying bliss.
I wonder which of these is true.
Gotta point this out... (Score:5)
On the desktop, people use applications, not operating systems, to get work done.
Until Linux gets some applications that are clearly superior to the ones in Windows, it will never get any significant penetration. People need a really good reason to switch, and there just isn't one when it comes to Linux -- but there are a whole slew of negatives.
I mean, what's the "killer app" in Linux for the desktop? There are no end-user apps that I can get that are better under Windows. With Win2K, Linux doesn't even have the stability advantage anymore.
This is not to say that Linux won't see more penetration in the server arena. I personally like Unix better when it comes to server apps. But for the desktop, there simply isn't an overwhelming reason to switch.
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Re:Feh (Score:2)
Re:hmmmm (Score:2)
Since I consider MS a threat to my freedoms (as well as a pack of liars and purveyors of crappy software), I'm not likely to ever get tired of anti-MS anything.
> IMHO that Pengiun ad just makes us look lame....
No, it looks like a peak into Bill's worst nightmare.
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Top 10% (Score:2)
Re:Mis-observation (Score:2)
Gee, thanks for that 'insightful' piece of M$ troll, Herbie J.
I'm glad you set me straight about my PC . SuSE 6.3 is the only OS on this box and it's running KDE 1.1 My scanner, zipdrive, printer, ADSL, etc., are all running perfectly. I have two office suites (Applix 5.0 and StarOffice 5.2), two graphics programs (gimp and Blender), QCad 1.0 (Autocad Lite replacement), XEphem (Astronomy), Quanta+ (Awesome HTML editor!), OCRshop, and tons of other high quality software, most free and many not available on WinXXX.
And, I haven't crashed ONCE since Linux became the only OS on this box!
Yup. You're right. I must be delusional to think that Linux is ready for the desktop.
NOT!
Go ask Bill for permission to troll someplace else.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
Other story mentioned in the article (Score:4)
http://www.washin gtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36124-2000Jun10.html [washingtonpost.com]
Re:How many of us are sick of M$ astroturf droids? (Score:2)
You are blurring distinction between facts and normative statements. Facts are features of the world as it is. Normative statements are about the world as it OUGHT to be. The author, to my understanding, was making a normative claim and not a factual one.
You might reply to this by saying that the normative "truths" are facts just like any others. If this is your view you are stuck on the horns of a dillemna: If, on the one hand, you are lucky enough to possess the truth about morality, then you ought to be prepared to die to defend it. This view is a formula for holy wars and witch hunts. If on the other hand, you believe that moral truths will eventually be 'discovered' but that we just don't know which moral statements are true, then your belief doesn't really apply to most actual statements that we might be arguing about. You are making what amounts to a metaphysical claim.
Suppose for the sake of argument that I grant you the existence of "moral truths" some of which are espoused by people living today. Even if I accept this dubious claim about absolute moral facts, I can still dispute the claim you are making. The facts of the matter to which you refer are not so widely known or accepted as to make the presentation of opposing views unecessary. While some propositions admit of greater certainty than others, this particular issue has not reached the point at which opposing views need no longer be presented.
Also, the poster said nothing that indicated opposition to free speech. I have no idea where you're getting that from. The poster didn't say the opposition should be *CENSORED*, he said there is no need to *PRESENT* it. If you think those are the same thing... well, then I don't think discussion with you could ever yield much benefit.
I agree that not every alternative to the status quo needs to be given thorough public debate. But the original poster was arguing against the need to discuss an alternative that many consider reasonable. It is the apathy toward reasonable alternatives that reinforces the inertia of public opinion. That means that unless one actively encourages free debate about alternatives, our civic imaginations will die.
Arrogance (Score:2)
As to Ballmer's first assertion: he is wrong. Sure, there aren't many client deployments of Linux yet. But that is slowly changing. Witness my company. Management is seriously showing signs of tiring of the TOC (Total Cost of Ownership) issues inherent with the Microsoft design. Not the least of which is the never-ending upgrade cycles. And many people in management are starting to understand that vendor lock-in is a Bad Thing. Sentiment towards ridding the Corporation of Microsoft lock-in is growing. The only real stopper? Dependence on Microsoft's office productivity suite. Which brings us to Ballmer's second assertion.
The way Microsoft thinks, and the way they would like to have it, of course there's nothing in there that looks like a good opportunity for them. But it's important to understand how Microsoft defines "good opportunity." To Microsoft, a "good opportunity" is one that ultimately results in absolute control by Microsoft and that locks the customer in to that control. So of course Microsoft doesn't see a "good opportunity" in Linux. The way Linux exists precludes any possibility whatsoever that MS will ever be able to achieve the control that they desire. Nay, that they feel they must have.
Microsoft made the mistake of grabbing a tiger by the tail once. That tiger was Java. They aided its market penetration--no doubt thinking that they'd "embrace and extend" it to death. The developer community nearly overwhelmingly rejected that attempt. And Sun proved not shy in taking MS to task for their transgressions. MS has effectively lost control of Java (as if they ever had it), and has thus lost the ability to either make it theirs or destroy it.
They are unlikely to repeat that mistake with Linux.
I predict that we will see no Microsoft applications, client or server, for Linux until and unless the company is backed into a corner. As they were when they found they could no longer ignore the Internet. With a little luck, we'll see just that happen.
Re:Gotta point this out... (Score:2)
Ehh... don't need it. I use SecureCRT to ssh in, and I mostly only use command line apps. Although I really need to get around to porting PowerShell [sourceforge.net] to Windows
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Re:Puh-lease. (Score:2)
For my money [no pun intended!] there's a heck of a difference between "just another way to make money" and "screwing your customers because you've got 'em by the yang". In that light, it does make them better than Microsoft.
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Re:Forgot One Thing (Score:4)
that was once correct, but not any more. i have a "thing" with operating systems - they interest me very intensely, and so i try them out quite regularly. in the past few years, i've installed slackware 2.x, redhat 4.x, 5.x, 6.x, mandrake 5.2, 6.0, 7.0 and now 7.1, corel 1.1, windows nt server 4.0, windows 9x (probably 2-300 times), various versions of dos, freebsd, beos from 3.0 up to current... the beos installer was pretty simple, but i can *honestly* say that i have *never* seen a system better set up than the mandrake 7.1 system i installed a few days ago. it detected EVERYTHING it needed to and set them up accordingly. sound blaster live, crap onboard video, etc. win9x is relatively easy to set up, but this installer, quite honestly, put it to shame. you may prefer windows, and that's fine - to each his own. but please don't say things like this around easily influenced people and prospective linux users. it borders on propaganda...
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DeCSS source code! [metastudios.com]
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