VTech Linux PDA To Benefit Open-Source Projects 46
Bocaj writes: "LinuxOrbit.com has news from VTech on their plans to upgrade the Helio PDA to Linux. But thats not the interesting part: Quote:
Programs chosen by VTech/Helio for special attention will receive incentives that include special
donations to the Linux Open Source Foundation in the name of the developer of
choice, or a cash grant for further development of Linux programs for the Helio OS
or other Linux systems, open to the developer's choice."
What I am looking for (Score:1)
Hehe, is administering my servers via a PDA too much to ask for.
"First PDA to run Linux" - this is false? (Score:3)
Is that true? I thought Linux was up on the Palm already. At least it is according to the guys at uClinux [uclinux.org]. They must mean first to run Linux on standard hardware.
GoodPint
Who has experience with Helio? (Score:1)
ZDNet Family PC Review [zdnet.com] Says it's okay
Cnet [cnet.com] says it sucks (cool colors but little support)
It's still pricy for me, and who cares about lack of Outlook support (which I'm sure has been fixed by now anyways).
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Can they do it? (Score:3)
unless-spoon-fed crowd, but seem to be getting beaten on price by Palm. VTech has a tough fight ahead.
Re:"First PDA to run Linux" - this is false? (Score:1)
The WHAT Foundation? (Score:3)
Bruce
btw, VTech needs Linux/Mac programmers (Score:3)
Hi Alex,
Thanks for your quick response. Seems any techie guy, not just Macintosh is really busy. We're looking for Linux people and it's been just as diffficult it seems...
Anyways, can you give the PDA manager "Wendy Siu" a call to discuss more about possible sub-contract work? The phone number is XXX-XXXX, ext. XXX.
If you're a good Linux and/or Mac programmer who wants to help them out, email me [mailto] and I'll pass the number along if you sound competent.
Re:Who has experience with Helio? (Score:1)
Yopi? (Score:1)
out in June?
Re:Who has experience with Helio? (Score:1)
I've never used a PDA so I'm hoping someone has positive experience with Helio.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Re:Can you imagine... (Score:1)
Tell a man that there are 400 Billion stars and he'll believe you
Mommy! Moon! (Score:2)
what about the yopy? (Score:1)
Re:"First PDA to run Linux" - this is false? (Score:2)
And besides the "Palm-plus-expansion-board"-stuff from uclinux [uclinux.org], there's the LART [tudelft.nl] as a research project and the upcoming Yopy (see below).
It may only be the first PDA being shipped with Linux. So let's forgive the misleading emphasis:-) But they definitely have to do something about the "system requirements" for the Desktop Partner. vtech.com [vtech.com] states: "Microsoft Windows® 95 or Windows® NT Workstation" :-( But netcraft says their webserver is running apache on BSD:-)
On the plus side: 8 MB of SDRAM, plus 2 MB flash for operating system and applications for about $179 against $157 for the Palm IIe with it's 2MB (using http://computers.cnet.com/ [cnet.com] list prices, since I haven't seen the Helio being shipped in europe (anyone?)).
But, as stated in another comment [slashdot.org], they have to go a long run with Palm being something like a de facto standard (besides the "Windows powered" stuff:-). And, don't forget the Samsungs studies for a "hi end" GNU/Linux-powered PDA: The Yopy [samsung.co.kr]. 32MB RAM, 32MB(64MB) Flash Memory and a 206MHz ARM RISC 32bit Microprocessor.
So, I'm not that convinced that "The Helio may make a break for the running of the PDA-of-choice-for-Linux-geeks yet".
echo $FAKEMAIL | sed s/soccer/football/ | sed s/" at "/@/
Re:What I am looking for (Score:3)
The usefulness PDAs (Score:2)
Then there is the issue of exactly what you can do with a 2-4 meg machine and linux. What will be the interface? Will it have a command prompt? Will it have a KDE-like interface? Gnome? X? How may programs could it hold, and how many could it run? Could you run sendmail off of it and have yourself a little mail server OTG (on-tha-go)?
The possibilities are endless.
But, so are the drawbacks.
First, you have to have everyone learn how to write the letters and numbers properly. Then you have to come up with a nice, fast efficient interface that a novice wouldn't be able to immediately screw up. Then you have to leave enough space and customizability to be able to erase and re-do anything you want. The chance for screwup here is huge.
However, the chance for the most amazing PDA to surface is even larger.
What is truly unfortunate is that someone will have to code a Windoze -> Helio interface so the user can view their address book (or whatever) in Word or Outlook or something. Of course, you could try a new viewer all together, something small, efficient, not platform specific....
Did somebody say "java"?
You Joke but...... (Score:2)
Why:Because I want to be able to point my Palm at a machine(w/ appropriate IR or other connectivity) and see the perfmeter stats crawling across the Palm's screen just like in Star Trek. I want a real tricorder.
I want to be able to get a page at a conference or dinner or something and be able to do some simple first-step diags before I make a mad dash for the terminal room or the office for something that could be taken care of by just tapping a couple buttons to kick an errant daemon in the butt.
I'm about half done. I'd be interested in hearing from others out there if they think this would be something they could really use or just a cool, geeky toy.
RK
Limerick (Score:1)
Their Helio OS a reject
Then a new paradigm
"We'll go Linux this time...
Shhhhh... Nobody tell Palm the secret!"
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (Score:1)
Re:"First PDA to run Linux" - this is false? (Score:1)
Ah
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (Score:2)
This is a Foundation having to do with Linux, with Linux and Open Source. They have a web site here [losf.org]. This makes since because Linux is considered the first modern operating system based on open source principles. It's pretty cool for that and I've used it; it works relatively well and is almost as innovative as MS Windows. [Ed: Microsoft, MSFT [microsoft.com], which creates MS Windows, owns everything, including the original poster, this one, and the moderators.]
And that should be modded "Good Question, +1" rather than "Interesting, +1" except everyone knows to mod Bruce Perens up. Everyone also knows to mod "Bruce Perens." down even when he posts information as useful as "Bruce Perens". Not to sound combative, but what a twisted web this is...Check out "Signal11"'s complaint here [slashdot.org]. (Not to be confused with "Signal 11".)
Please to be the one and the only,ZEUSJR
Re:Quality control [Off Topic] (Score:1)
Well, I can't speak to VTech's later computer systems or new handhelds, but on my desk right now I have a Laser (VTech) Turbo XT from 1987. It has survived years of use from me--after being a floor display model at Sears.
While many other computer systems come and gone, the VTech XT is still going strong; the only part that has failed is the clock battery. The original system, floppy and hard drives, monitor, and keyboard all still function as good as new.
Currently, the computer runs MS-DOS 5.0, 4DOS 4.0, and Geos to act as a terminal to a 10Base-T hub and a Linux box I fully expect it to outlast. And there's just something wonderful about hearing a late eighties, RLL harddrive spin up, not to mention speedisk.
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (an expose' ?) (Score:2)
I was immediately annoyed by the terms of the initiative: 'a donation in your name or a grant for future work for Helios, at your choice' -- if they make a donation in your name, it implies you're being rewarded for work already done (and should be allowed to pick your own charity, dammit) but if you need the cash for yourself, 'you owe them' some future work. Contradictory!
At first, I wrote it off as a lame PR stunt ("We were going to make a modest donation to an open source charity for publicity purposes, but if we can rope in a developer commitment instead, that's good too"), and I couldn't find any indication of the Foundation they mentioned on the Helios web site, but figured it was in the 'members only' developer section. Annoyingly: "For all the info you need to develop applications for the VTech-OS, click here." leads to nothing but a registration form and click-on license [pdabuzz.com] with terms that guarantee your work will not be GPL! (the complete license is listed at the end of this post)
Further research located a Linux/Open Source Foundation sponsoring 'groundbreaking' student competitions in Europe with 1Venture, 4linuxjobs (.co.uk,
"The Linux/Open Source Foundation (LOSF) is a trust with the sole purpose of supporting the development of Linux/Open Source by arranging contests and sponsoring events."
This Linux/Open Source Foundation also"placed 50,000 ord shares [in 1venture.co.uk] [ofex.com] with institutional & other clients of JM Finn & Co @ 50p" -- whatever that implies.
So basically the Helios contest will "donate" cash to a company that sponsors contests. Is that enough to call it a scam? Not really. However, i remembered the Helio's click-on license (which you needed to accept for any developer info) and its disturbing conditions, and I wondered if their 'contests' might not be a scam to lock up innovative but undeveloped ideas from hungry students and budding developers.
"The submissions must be used through a browser or something similar - again freely available via the Internet."
What? No e-mail submissions? How very odd. But then they'd have to supply an e-mail address, and there might be an audit trail. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but if you review the materials linked, you'll find that I left out a lot of stuff that raised questions in my mind.
I'll close with the license text I promised:
----------------------------------------------
THE HELIOS CLICK-ON LICENSE FOR DEVELOPER INFO
----------------------------------------------
Public User License Agreement
PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY.
The Helio Software Development Kit contains the copyrighted and proprietary property of VTech Informations Ltd. This License Agreement is a legal contract between you and VTech Informations Ltd. that grants you certain limited rights to modify, reproduce, and use the information and software contained within the Helio Software Development Kit, in exchange for your expressly agreeing to the terms, conditions, restrictions, and waivers of warranty detailed below.
Unless you have a written license agreement signed by VTech Informations Ltd. that expressly supersedes this Agreement, your downloading of the Helio Software Development Kit indicates your acceptance of the terms of this License Agreement.
1. The Licensed Development Kit
This License Agreement applies to all technical information and software that is included in or distributed with the Helio Software Development Kit ("the Licensed Development Kit.") The Licensed Development Kit may include source code and/or object code forms of the VT-OS operating system, the Application Programmer Interface, drivers, sample applications, and additional code and information.
2. Copyright Statement
The Development Kit and any included software and information is owned by VTech Informations Ltd. or its suppliers and is protected by United States copyright laws and international treaty provisions.
3. Your Rights Under This Agreement
By agreeing to this License Agreement, you are granted the right to use the Licensed Development Kit solely to create software application programs for VTech's Helio line of products, or other VTech products that use the VT-OS, and to distribute, market, license and sell such application programs. You may modify or adapt the software and may incorporate the software, or part thereof, into your own programs, thereby creating a Derivative Work. YOUR USE OF THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT AND THE CREATION AND USE OF DERIVATIVE WORKS IS STRICTLY SUBJECT TO THE LIMITATIONS AND CONDITIONS CONTAINED BELOW IN SECTIONS 4 THROUGH 7.
4. Your Obligations Under This Agreement
All copies of the Licensed Development Kit software and other materials from the Licensed Development Kit must include the VTech copyright notice and any Derivative Work you create, including software that modifies, adapts, incorporates, or excerpts the Licensed Development Kit, in whole or in part, must include a conspicuous statement near the beginning indicating that your software is adapted/modified/copied from the VT-OS operating system. For example, a statement satisfying your obligation under this section for a version of the VTech Operating System which you have modified would read, "This operating system software has been adapted and modified from VT-OS version _____."
Any Derivative Work you create that interacts with a user must display to the user the conspicuous statement described in this section above. For example, the above-described statement should appear briefly upon startup of the Derivative Work, or it should be displayed upon selection of a pull down menu item or button labeled "About This Software..."
5. Restrictions To Your Rights Under This Agreement
YOU AGREE NOT TO DISCLOSE, DISTRIBUTE, PUBLISH, SUBLICENSE, SELL OR USE THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT OR ANY DERIVATIVE WORK, REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT OF CODE THAT YOU MAY HAVE ADDED OR MODIFIED, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PERMITTED HEREIN. If you would like to distribute, disclose, publish, sublicense, sell or use any portion of the Development Kit for any purpose not expressly permitted herein, you must obtain from VTech a written Private License Agreement that expressly supersedes this agreement and grants you additional rights, signed by an authorized representative of VTech Informations Ltd.
In order to request a Private License Agreement that grants you rights differing from those contained herein, you may either (1) send email to productinfo@vtech.com, or (2) you can write to:
VTech Informations Lt., 560 Division Street, Campbell, CA 95008
In your request, please include your contact information, and a description of the type of license in which you are interested.
You understand that the sale or distribution of the Licensed Development Kit or any Derivative Work, for charge or otherwise, in violation of this Agreement constitutes a violation of United States Federal Law.
6. Disclaimer of Warranty and Liability
THE DEVELOPMENT KIT AND ANY INCLUDED SOFTWARE AND INFORMATION ARE PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF PERFORMANCE OR MERCHANTABILITY. DUE IN PART TO THE VARIOUS HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE ENVIRONMENTS IN WHICH THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT MAY BE USED, NO WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE IS PROVIDED, EVEN IF YOU HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE OF SUCH PURPOSE.
THE DEVELOPMENT KIT, INCLUDING SOFTWARE AND INFORMATION, IS ALSO PROVIDED TO YOU WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT OF PATENTS, COPYRIGHTS, OR OTHER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS OWNED BY ENTITIES OTHER THAN VTECH INFORMATIONS LTD.
NEITHER VTECH INFORMATIONS LTD. NOR ANY AFFILIATED ENTITY WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OF THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU FREE OF CHARGE, AND YOU AGREE THAT YOUR USE OF THE LICENSED DEVELOPMENT KIT WILL BE ENTIRELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
IN NO EVENT SHALL VTECH OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, WHETHER BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, WARRANTY OR OTHER LEGAL OR EQUITABLE GROUNDS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS, ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THIS VTECH PRODUCT, EVEN IF VTECH HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME JUISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.
7. U.S. Government Restricted Rights
If you are acquiring the Development Kit on behalf of any unit or agency of the United States Government, the following provision applies - It is acknowledged that the software therein and the documentation were developed of private expense and that no part is in the public domain and that the software and documentation are provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of The Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013 or subparagraph (c)(1) and (2) of the Commercial Computer Software--Restricted Rights at 48 CFR 52.227-19, as applicable. Contractor/manufacturer is VTech Informations Ltd., 560 Division Street Campbell, CA 95008
This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of California.
Copyright VTech Informations Ltd. 1999
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (an expose' ?) (Score:2)
The Linux Open Source Foundation seems to be real, then, but I'd certainly rather see money going to FSF or Software in the Public Interest.
Maybe these folks need a free software community advisory board to give them a sense of how to work with us.
Thanks
Bruce
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (Score:2)
Sound effect: loud raspberry. Go on to the middle of the post.
The question implied, since you established that LOSF exists, is why them rather than FSF or Software in the Public Interest? That's not interesting? :-)
Raspberry for the end of the post, too.
Bruce
Joke (Score:1)
Donations ?
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (an expose' ?) (Score:1)
If I were wrong, well I better be wrong....
Pan
VTech's quality is sub-par. (Score:1)
Re:The usefulness PDAs (Score:2)
According to the original story, existing Helios users will be able to upgrade the OS on their PDA to linux once it's available. They will be able to use their existing programs and data, so I'm guessing that means they may still be able to use their current Windows tools that interface with the Helio. It also said the GUI will be based on Wwindows or Microwindows [http]. The current OS for it uses Jot for the handwriting recognition (Isn't that what WinCE uses?).
I don't know about you, but it didn't take me long to get used to Graffiti when I was playing around with my friend's Palm V. There was something on slashdot a long time ago about an alternate handwriting method for the Palm that was supposedly faster.
Bad URL...sorry (Score:2)
The correct URL for Microwindows should be http://microwindows.censoft.com/ [censoft.com]. I hit the submit button by mistake.
A GUI for this thing? (Score:1)
Re:Can they do it? (Score:2)
Acctually WinCE is drawing the I-absolutely-must-have-something-other-than-a-16-s hades-of-grey-or-256(?)-color-160x160-PI M-so-I-can-read-the-display-easier-and-play-mp3z-w hen-storge-prices-drop crowd.
I repect Palm, infact i'm selling my Jornada 680(too big for a pocket) to get a Palm Vx/
But what I can't stand are all these people who think that WinCE has nothing on Palm.
Lets be realistic here. Soon WinCE devices will be small enongh to be pocketable. And storage will be alot cheaper to. And when this happens. Then the advandages of WinCE will really show. Of cource, by then Palm might have a range of more multimedia capable devices aswell. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
All I'm really saying is that WinCE isn't as bad as people make it out to be and it dose have quite a few advantages over Palm at the moment, depending on what you want it for.
Re:What is UP with those pen interfaces????!? (Score:2)
If your so big on inivation, why don't you come up with something better? Because as far as i can see it. A pen interface is the best for this type of device. And don't forget, these are PIMs, not word processors.
Linux character recognition? (Score:1)
Well, I'm dumping my Sharp organizer because it has a proprietary development kit and there's about five pieces of software -- none of which I want. Now I have another Linux PDA to consider.
Re:Limerick (nice try) (Score:1)
Far be it from me to criticize Slashdot's poet laureate, but stick to haiku, man. Your rhyme scheme here is ABCCD, not AABBA. "Tech", "reject", and "secret" do not rhyme. It's like trying to rhyme "kiss" with "desk". Close only counts in horseshoes and rock lyrics.
---
Zardoz has spoken!
VTech and Quality (Score:2)
but I've never been very impressed with VTech
toys or phones.
I had one of their cordless phones; worst I've ever had. I must admit that I saw one of their toys hold the attention of a 5 year old for some
time -- it was this robot thing that had functions
based on punch cards. But, aside from the speech synthesizer, it was nothing innovative (I had toys
based on the same principle in the late 1960's).
I'm not bitching about vtech, but I do sincerely hope that the PDA follows a different design from the toy laptops and has much higher quality than the phones.
Re:Quality control [Off Topic] (Score:1)
Here are the specs (Score:2)
- Processor: 32-bit RISC processor operating at 75MHz (most likely a Phillips R39xx 32-bit-only MIPS compatible)
- 8MB SDRAM (however all reviews mention 4MB)
- Memory Expansion: Separate memory board allows memory upgrades
- Display: 160 x 160 pixels (59 x 59 mm), 16-level gray scale
- Power Supply: 2 AAA alkaline batteries power 30 days of normal use or 15 hours of continuous operation
Even with 8MB it's a bit on the weak side. I wonder how useful this is going to be. However, the long undergoing efforts to port Linux to WinCE devices (LinuxCE [linuxce.org]) have been hinder mostly by the difficulty of getting the hardware specs, something that shouldn't be a problem in this case. At least this ought to be much cheaper than the Yopy.Re:Mommy! Moon! (Score:2)
I wonder if I can upgrade those to Linux. Imagine a Beowulf cluster of toys screaming "Daddy!"
I could handle it...up to the point that they start calling me Dave.
Sonnet? (Egads.) (Score:1)
Has his poetic license expired?
Still, his haiku exploits are unsung;
I say he should not yet be retired.
Rhyming is a tricky thing to do
Not to mention counting syllables
When you get it wrong (I often do),
Each verse comes out sounding terrible. *cough*
I expect, by now, my name is mud.
Anonymous Cowards everywhere
Will, most likely, holler for my blood.
This post is off-topic; I don't care!
I'll shut up now, at least for a while.
Hopefully, this sonnet made you smile. =)
Re:The usefulness PDAs (Score:1)
Sure, I use it for the boring time-management stuff. I used to have this pound-and-a-half Daytimer book that I lugged around with me everywhere. I dutifully wrote down every appointment in it -- problem was I never read it again and still ended up missing stuff. Now when I turn my Palm on in the morning to do something fun, it reminds me that I have a meeting with my boss at one o'clock.
But the thing that makes me turn it on in the first place is the fun stuff. I can play Kyle's Quest. I can play about half the interactive-fiction games that have ever been written. I can read War and Peace (OK, so maybe I have a weird idea of fun). I can use the infrared to change channels on the TV in my local bar without anyone knowing it was me.
On the other hand, it's completely useless for many things you'd use a desktop or laptop for (not that that stops people from trying). I'd never try to surf the net on it, even if it had a modem. I'd never try to program on it.
I think how much you like a PDA depends on what expectations you come to it with. If you expect it to be a boring time-management tool, you'll be amazed at all the other fun stuff it can do. If you expect it to be a tiny laptop, you'll be disappointed with all the stuff it can't do. I agree with you that the risk of a Linux PDA is pretty big -- it raises the expectations that the PDA will be as functional as a laptop, and unfortunately those expectations will still be frustrated. A lot more people will end up as disappointed as your friend. Hopefully, they won't blame it on Linux.
Old News (Score:1)
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/linu x/arch/mips/config.in?cvsroot=linu x-vr [sourceforge.net]
So all this stuff works, and is available now publicly. I see that VTech seems quite impressed with it too. ;-)
Cheers,
- Jim
Would you believe that OSI and FSF merged? (Score:1)
-russ
Mono/Colour displays and battery life (Score:2)
Re:The WHAT Foundation? (Score:1)
Sound effect: loud raspberry.
I haven't figured out how to add sound effects to a Slashdot post yet. The last time I checked you could include arbitrary javascript with <A HREF="javascript: etc. etc. etc. Maybe you could add sound effects like this? I should look into it.
If I had positive karma I'd mod up anyone who used sound effects!
Hardware looks good (Score:1)