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Linux Software

More Yopy, The Linux PDA 115

Posted by CmdrTaco from the little-yellow-better dept.
Codeine writes: "The Linux PDA Yopy, mentioned back in February is getting closer... " Lots of specs and details now. Still no release date.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

More Yopy, The Linux PDA More

More Yopy, The Linux PDA

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  • Re:Battery life? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Actually, they mispelt "wait", the product will be available in 225 weeks. HTH
  • Between 10,800 and 16,300 rubles.
  • Maybe their tests [min.net] of other OSes didn't pan out very well.
  • I saw the Yopy at Cebit in March. It looked like some CE machine, but to me, it appeared to be much faster. (206 MHz StrongARM, no wonder...)

    The interface didn't look like X, it was rather slim and fast. (Not as much fuss as CE!)

    Hope that helps, regards, Ulli

  • Okay, I'm seeing a lot of comments about how a windows-type UI (WinCE, X, whatever) doesn't fit very well on a PDA. That's true, but unlike WinCE, the UI is not tied into the OS. Even if the Yopy comes out with a WinCE-like X-based UI, another UI could be hacked into it.

    I'm thinking that PDA UI development is really early in its life cycle -- there's still a lot of ideas to be tried. The PalmOS UI is pretty much the best available right now, AFAIAC, but there's much room for improvement.

    If Samsung provides good enough support (HW docs, driver source, etc.), the Yopy has the potential for becoming a UI-hacker's machine. It's the first one that separates the OS from the UI, allowing UI development. We could see some really interesting progress on PDA UIs with a platform like this...

  • As a fully-qualified professional IT consultant employed by one of the leading names in the software industry (hence the anonymous posting) I am engaged in a study into the "open source" (thanks to people for correcting my misconception about freeware vs. open source) phenomenon started by Linus Torvelds and his Linux operating system suite.

    As it happens, I also work for a "leading name in the software industry", yet here I am, not posting anonymously.

    Do you see how, if you'd provided contact details, I could have got in touch privately, and helped you out with your research in an environment where fewer people would laugh at you...

    (unless it *is* a troll... but who'd go to that much trouble just to piss people off?)

    Mail me if you want a factually accurate, balanced view of Free Software.
    --
  • One of the reasons i never bought a WinCE PDA is that i don't see the use of multiple windows open on such a small screen.. (the other one was off course that there was that ubiqiutous MS- in front of WinCE... ;-). It's not really workable (used a Philips Nino for awhile so i have some experience).

    I need a PDA which will be on as soon as i flip the cover, has a wide variety of apps available and which will be able to link me to my network so these apps could be installed on the fly. If possible i would like to see a voice controlled one.... that would be really interesting for most people i guess.
  • You know, one of my first PC's was a Samsung branded 286 (with a kick ass 1MB of ram and 40MB hard drive!) and the user's guide that came with it had nearly the EXACT same bad english as this web site... nice to see that while Samsung has gotten bigger, they aren't forgetting the little things... :)
  • Could you imagine 1 device with integraged GPS, Cellphone, MP3 player, digital radio receiver, camera, etc.

    I have no problem with that, as long as it has enough memory for the MP3s, doesn't drain batteries, and is as small as my Palm. Otherwise, no thank you. :)

    Maybe in a few years...

    --


  • Can I run Apache on it?

    How much for 64MB memory upgrade?

    How will Linux PDA's stand out to Symbian, WinCE, etc?

  • 90% of my work is related to Apache CGIs; if nothing else, I use it for GUI.

    It's a warm, sunny spring day outside, yet I'm stuck in here. My laptop would only last for two hours, without MP3s, and that is not the length of a coding session. That sucks.

    I only need a console and a way to test the web pages.

    As for the "early post", you're right :P

    Actually, I wanted to post them onto the FAQ, but I guess that they and yopy.org [yopy.org] get enough mail now that the thing's mentioned here.

    That and other links have already been mentioned here, so I manage to be redundant as well :)

    My obvious dream is to have a device that
    • takes up no space
    • runs indefinitely (solar power recharge)
    • can provide either
      unlimited processing power, or
      powerful net connection
      (obviously, to work over ssh + http)


    Any more (coding) information about W? Eero Tamminen's W directory denies access.

    If I had deliberately wanted to be OT, I'd have said:
    "Imagine... a Beowulf Cluster of these!"
    but that would've been too old a joke to mention.

  • Hold your breath!

    Now I'd just love to find more information on hacking W, the window manager.

    It's the Yopy PDA that's having the identity problem, playing MPEG streams and looking forward to getting its teeth blue.

    AFAIK now, Apache should run on it without problems, once you get it to compile.

    "32MB should be enough for everybody"

  • Something better is always just around the corner. I bought a computer last month. It is now obsolete. The handheld computers of 2002 will be pretty cool, but you'll laugh at them in 2003, and make smirking comments about their pathetic 100 Gig dime-sized hard disks.


    ---
  • Interesting... but irrelevant since Samsung is a Korean company, not Japanese.
  • Hmm, mp3 encoding of talk (dictation) on a PDA doesn't sound as a good idea. You wouldn't be able to encode in real time, and mp3 quality is a bit overkill for speech anyway.

    They'd better use some sort of PCM encoding (like in phone systems). Granted, that would of course only be telephone quality, but the sound quality that's good for phone systems would IMHO also satisfy most people's needs for a dictation system.

  • No one asked you to be excited. The purpose of the article is to make you aware of the fact that this product is coming. That's all.
  • You plug in headphones which are as large as you want. Unless you use refrigerator-sized speakers with your portable audio devices...
  • I want flexibility. I have a Sharp PDA that I got as a gift. There are about three software modules I could install, none of which are worth the trouble. Sharp chose to not make the SDK as easily available as the Palm SDK is. A Linux PDA will let me use my Linux skills to adjust it to my needs. Even better than browsing among the wide array of Palm applications.
  • More importantly, I'll be able to adjust my MiniSec to do the odd things which I need. If I need a serial/network analyzer I can load one in. If I want my MP3 player to remember a commercial from the radio program which I recorded last night, I can make it do that.
  • Incidentally, for those trying to imagine 225 grams -- look at a can of beverage. One beverage can near me says 355mL, which is 355 grams of water. So 225 grams is about 2/3 of a can.

    (Subtract the weight of the can, and use water not sugar-sweetened beverage because the dissolved sugar adds weight)

  • August was mentioned in yopi.org, so perhaps their fiscal year starts in April and August is in their second quarter.
  • Yes, I consider the MP3 tools as just another ability. I might store a little sound in it, but if I'm going to want an MP3 library I'll keep it on the disk drives in the system in the car, and I can download what I presently need (like the most recent traffic report or last night's news from Cairo).
  • From the FAQ How many models of Linux PDA are planned? At first we're planned to launch 1 model by the end of second quarter and we'll add new models according to technological developments and system modification
  • *Why Linux*

    Really portable web servers.

    'Cause rooting somebody while knocking on their front door is just funny.

    vi was built for handhelds.

    emacs, emacs, emacs. (how exactly do you do ctrl-x-v-q-m with a stylus?)

    everyone *knows* handhelds should be multi-user friendly.

    and finally...Penguins are funny looking!
    --
  • They are redesigning the gui, according to the mailing list and the message board on GMate's site. They are trying to not look like WinCE
  • According to the FAQ, they are running W windows...I do not have the link handy.
  • I assume then that you are applying this same principle to Korean slang?
  • In a word, yes. See the designers website commentry here. [gmate.co.kr]

    For other questions, see the informal FAQ at
    yopy.org. [yopy.org]

  • Slashdot featured the Espresso PC [saintsong.com.tw] a couple of weeks ago. What'd I'd like to see is a StrongARM-based PDA with the external ports that the Espresso PC has: VGA out, S-Video out, PS/2 mouse and keyboard in, and DC power in. The Espresso PC falls shy of greatness because of its power-hungry Intel processor, so it doesn't even try to run on a battery. What would be cool would be a Pocket PC that you can carry around and use but which you can also plug into a full-size keyboard and monitor. It would be nice to see a 6 or 12 GB hard drive on a PDA as well, but I guess you simply can't spin those platters without killing your batteries. A reasonable compromise might be having a large-capacity hard drive inside the case but only using it when external power was supplied. This gives the paranoid user the extra advantage of never having to let his data leave his person to get black-bagged. :) Oh well, I guess they'll come up with my dream portable on of these days, when you can run a 10,000 RPM hard drive for 3 months on a watch battery. :)

  • From YOPY's FAQ:

    What's the difference from today's PDA?

    Basically YOPY support Linux OS and it's the very first products based on Linux and we believe this new OS will be run over as main platform in the near future.

    Run over? I think they need new translators.

  • Does anyone know if Yopy will be able to synchronize with a desktop running Linux? The FAQ says it synchronizes with a desktop computer using USB or serial, but doesn't say what OS it syncs to.

    It'd be fairly disappointing if the Linux-based PDA doesn't sync with Linux!
  • Surely an OS as big as Linux - taking a whole CD-ROM up as it does - is not the obvious choice for a small device with limited capabilities?

    You realize that the full CD contains several graphical interfaces, several compilers and compiler tools, copious documentation and lots of games.

    You can easily fit a basic Linux and GUI in under 40 megs, the last MS product to do that was Windows for Workgroups.

    You can easily fit the kernel and a few needed apps onto 2 floppies.

    Wouldn't a custom built OS for this kind of device such as EPOC or Windows CE be much better suited in this domain?

    Well, with Linux, you can take what exists and build something small and fast, you don't need to include everything that comes with a standard Linux distro.

    Also, I am wondering whether the Linux GUI, GNOME, is of sufficiently high standard for the purposes of an "easy to use" device such as he Yopy. From what people have shown me, it seems to be somewhat complex and has a lot of non-standard interface features which users will be unconfortable with. Since the GUI is part and parcel of the operating system, isn't this another reason why Linux is the wrong choice for the PDA domain?

    Part of the problem with configuring Linux is that people want to stick any card or peripheral into a computer and make it work with Linux. when you are talking thousands of network cards, hundreds of video cards, hundreds of sound cards, hundreds of scanners, thousands of printers, etc, you can see what a daunting task this is.

    With a PDA, there won't be very many peripherals, and the developers can concentrate on getting just the basic functionality to work.

    The GUI can be coded for the PDA, and there should be very little to configure from the average user perspective.

    Hpoe this helps,

    George
  • 1. Release Date : in the 1st half of 2000.
    They(www.gmate.co.kr) have recruite 20 beta testers and the beta testers are waiting the beta version. Beta Yupy's are expected to be out from the factory on May 13th. Don't ask me what a beta hardware means. ...

    2. Battery Life: Max 15 hours. 3 hours 30 minutes for charging up.

    Yes I HATE the START button.
  • - you have to carry several modules around instead of one full featured unit
    - they promise plenty of modules... many will never be produced in the hand

    Plus the Yopy has a CompactFlash type II port, which is the same standard as PCMCIA but in a smaller form factor. So you can plugin modem, Ethernet or use a compactflash to PCMCIA adapter and use whatever is laying around.
  • Sure but any PDA using CompactFlash can use the EXISTING compactflash extentions, or even PCMCIA cards in some situation (if you can keep the slot open when running with an adapter). You can buy NOW a Ethernet card, a modem card or memory card or what not. Many WinCE/Pocket PC PDA already use them (plus these PDA already have things like MP3 built in).

    On the other hand your Visor has limited functions, all the cool one are in vaporware modules...

    Another good examples of the need to use STANDARD extensions and not proprietary ones.
  • One of the reasons i never bought a WinCE PDA is that i don't see the use of multiple windows open on such a small screen.

    You obviously haven't spent much (or any) time with palmsize CE devices (e.g. Casiopeia E100/105). The vast majority of applications on that platform run full-screen, so you won't see multiple windows.
  • who would buy it other than Linux users?

    I don't know...why don't you ask the Palm folks?

  • I've long thought that the Unix kernel is a perfectly good choice for PDAs - in fact it's one of the reasons microkernels are a good idea, since one can use a scaled-down Unix "server". Linux is as good a Unix as any for this purpose, since it's already made some inroads into power management (but more will still be needed before this thing can have the stamina of a Palm, a Newton, or even an iBook).

    However, what the heck are they planning on using for a GUI? Relying on X will forever write this thing off as a toy, because the interface standards aren't there (and the bloat is unforgivable). The other main reason people so like those Palms (and to a lesser extent, Newtons and iBooks) is the way the interface is well-adapted to the I/O that's available. Graffiti isn't just a lame version of the Newton's handwriting recognition, but the beginnings of an input paradigm designed to minimise the amount of stylus motion required, and to exploit the familiarity of gesturing (I realised this one day when I noticed just how natural the "backspace" gesture is - ironically, while I was entering initials for some game's high score).

    So I don't think this thing has a hope of success without a ground-up stylus-and-tiny-screen interface for Linux (and by extension Unix). It's quite possible that they are working on such a thing, possibly in bits and pieces, but then the big question becomes "will they open-source it?". I certainly hope they can and do, not just because I want to see what they come up with (and I do), but because GPLing their work will make it so much easier to integrate other people's ideas and code. And that in turn could end up providing a much more powerful extendability than the hacks for the Palm OS.

  • The FAQ says that the release date will be by the end of second quarter.

    http://www.sem.samsung.co.kr/eng/product/digital /pda/faq.htm
  • While a PDA should do those things, I don't see any problem with them doing much more. Could you imagine 1 device with integraged GPS, Cellphone, MP3 player, digital radio receiver, camera, etc. I think this would be a dream come true. My palm V is a great device and I will not be replacing it any time soon, but once these things have proven themselves in the marketplace, I'll be maxing out the credit card again;-) The fact that it might include the stability of Linux would only be a plus.
  • This thing is gonna rock. Now i can sit my lazy ass down Flip through the channels of my TV, while checking e-mail, while browsing web for porn, while listening to MP3's! IN COLOR!!!. HOW cool is that. I never wanted an Handheld Comp before, never liked Palm or WinCE, but now... well dude it runs LINUX!! WOOHOO!

    "There is no Eastside, There is now westside, there is only the DARKSIDE!"

    thx
  • I think they're more concentrating on using the Linux kernel rather than some interface like, say, bash or insert-yer-favorite-X-window-setup-here. (And if they do *dare* use X, I'll nuke Korea myself :) )

    Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll come up with in the interface area. Who knows, maybe they'll actually make that power level of PDA workable for the thirtyodd folks who want one that way. :)


    -Jo Hunter

  • I think the Espresso PC could be a better solution if there were small, portable LCD screens. It would be great to get a small panel and foldable keyboard. The other option would be some of the wearable display technologies that are being developed. Unfortunately, all of these displays are only at 640x480 resolution. Who needs a virtual 30" (or something like that) display at that resolution?

    Input would also be a problem, but a flat touch screen could serve that purpose well.

    Oh well, I'll go back to dreaming
  • Its korea (samsung.co.kr) also yopy.org [yopy.org] and gmate [gmate.co.kr] have more information than samsung's site. It seems that gmate is the company that is making these, and samsung is rebadging them, or is gmate a part of samsung. It says that they will have a world release in March, which has well, already passed, word is that it's coming out around june.

  • Its not what the letters YOPY stand for, its what type of 'image' the product has. Apparently, samsung is trying to go for the young and affluent (read yuppie) type of people, the same kids who run around with thier nokia 51xx phones calling their friends all day to talk about nothing, still looks cool though, but i'd like some kind of wireless X pad over this.
  • The YOPY doesn't run GNOME, it looks like its running something other than X entirely, which is probably a good idea because X would suck up CPU time(and battery life) and speed on a device of this size. Also, the YOPY doesn't seem to be marketed to the techie market at all, it seems to be competing with the CE/Pocket Windows devices and palms which are going for the consumer market

  • I still see no mention of the application space on the handheld.

    What makes a Newton (or palm) a PDA that is useful out of the box is the limited user interface and the built in apps. What makes them a part of your life is the ability to add applications tailored to your needs.

    So: What apps will ship with this box? How many of them will have source aviable? What is being done to put the present apps known and loved on the diet they need for a 32 meg home. Can you make it 64 meg so the home is big enough?

  • Can I run Apache on it?

    Why would you want to? I get the feeling that in order to get an early post you just put down whatever came to mind. Nothing personal but come on......

  • The amount of energy stored in
    a battery is not expressed in Volts.
    The current(A) * the voltage(V) *
    the time the battery kan keep it up(s) =
    Energy(J)

    J.

    P.S. Its only in "The Matrix" that you
    can compare measure the energy in voltages.
    (What do you mean "a human produces more energy
    than a 120V battery")
  • > SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS

    Thank you for your insightful suggestion about a novel use for the YOPY. I am sure that many Slashdot readers have not considered the potential of my ass for the storage of a PDA. However, I feel the need to correct you as I think there are a few practical considerations which you may have neglected.

    While I agree that the YOPY is indeed a small piece of electronics, I do not think that it will fit up my ass (Please note that I have yet to try this out in practice, as I am still awaiting a review model). My ass conforms to all industry standards, which leads me to wonder whether the YOPY is really intended for ass-compatability? On the surface it appears that compliance with an ANSI standard ass may be a possibility - after all, I can speak out of my ass and so the YOPY's voice recognition software may be useful when it is shoved up my ass. However, despite the favourable lighting conditions in my ass (due to the fact that the Sun shines out of my ass) I am unable to see out of my ass and so will not be able to make full use of the colour screen. I also have reservations about the durability of a YOPY when subjected to the hostile environment of my ass.

    I wonder if a Samsung representative would care to comment on the ass-compatibility of the YOPY?

  • Since when does Linux take up a whole CD-ROM? Seems to me one can load Linux (the OS) from a floppy. Presumably for a PDA, the other apps that one would normally find on a CD-ROM distribution would be replaced by apps suitable for the PDA context.
  • If this is a flame, then it's a believable one so I have risen to the bait...

    Your post is based on two false assumptions:

    Linux - taking a whole CD-ROM up as it does

    No it doesn't. Linux _distros_ take up whole CD-ROMs. These include a linux kernel, plus absolute masses of other gubbins which is useful to someone running Linux on a PC. The Linux kernel itself is what is at issue here. This is of any size you like, depending on what you compile into it. Perhaps someone here could give a minimum workable linux kernel size for a small device like this?

    The point is that any and every Linux is "custom built". The ones on CD's are custom built for a PC user with average PC RAM, disk space and graphics capability. Surprisingly, the ones in yopy type devices will not be.

    Since the GUI is part and parcel of the operating system

    It isn't. Your research has been a tad feeble if you think this. I run Red Hat 6. I do not run Gnome and I never have. I could remove every gui related thing from my system and still have a fully functional linux box with a nice console. I could burn a CD allowing other people to install a console-only linux system, and sell it to people in flashy boxes. I could also develop a custom small-footprint gui all of my own and use that instead. If I was masochistic ;)

    Anyway Linux for these reasons is a load more suited to a small device than Windows, which is not configurable in this way except by the jolly Microsoft drones. I work on EPOC myself and will refrain from commenting on its suitability versus Linux. Pluses and minuses on both sides.

  • Will they include PIM software for your computer or do you have to find your own and mess with it?

    It seems reasonable to me to suppose that there will be some of both, which is exactly what I want.

    If you look at the pictures on the website you'll notice that it has a pim button along with an mp3 button. I think that one could make the assumption that some type of PIM software will be included.

  • Actually, there's a lot of info posted by G'Mate on their web discussion pages [gmate.co.kr]. In particular ...

    The expected release date is currently mid-August

    The VERY beta development kit is due out April 30

  • When everyone telnets to your PDA via wireless internet, it will work a lot better if it runs a true multi-user operating system. ;)

    Actually, good point. What's wrong with Palm? I guess I fail to see the benefit of a CLI in a device with no keyboard. On the other hand, Linux would allow application developers to make completely customized user interfaces for their clients.

    "What I cannot create, I do not understand."

  • Quite right. Jakob Nielsen wrote an article a while back about the idea of scrapping the WIMP (windows, icons, menus, pointer) interface. Unfortunately, he never proposed what should replace it. I'd be interested to see what the open-source community could do with a PDA.

    "What I cannot create, I do not understand."

  • What is this article about... most of the specs were already on the site a month ago. I thought /. was NEWS for nerds. So I do expect articles about things that are new to me (and the nerd-community)

  • I need a PDA which will be on as soon as i flip the cover

    That's not boot time; that's wakeup time. When a fella "turns off" a palmtop, it doesn't actually shut down; it simply turns off the screen and peripheral devices, puts the CPU in a low power "wait for interrupt" mode (select() anyone?), and keeps running the RAM refresh (just barely taking any juice). When it's "turned back on," the interrupt reaches the CPU, it turns the screen back on, and it brings up what you were doing when you put it to sleep.

  • It has USB, will I be able to hook up a monitor, ethernet, keboard and mouse via the USB port? Will it accept a PCMCIA HD? If it could, it would make a very good portible computer.
  • Will it do voice dictation? The newton 2000 with an SA-110@166mhz was supposed to be getting close to doing something like simple commands or domain-specific dictation via a project at Dragon Systems ...

    You may want to wait for a Crusoe device so it has a chance of using IBM's (closed-source, x86-only) voice dictation.

    I love the picture on the Yopy site with the kid swimming. What he's saying is "Hey Dad! I found your Yopy!!"

  • Don't hold your breath (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Not out 'til Jun at the earliest. My favorite faq entry:

    What is YOPY? (What stands for YOPY?)

    YOPY stands for spirit of young & intelligent who want to speedy usage of multimedia function through PDA. The target market is young generation whose accustomed to mobile application.

    So WHAT does it stand for???...



  • OK, let's get these things running on a wireless network. Once that's accomplished, a ride on the subway train could mean some heavy-duty computational power as everyone's pocket computers would be automatically chained to the cluster. Boom! Critical mass is achieved and the damn thing develops a self awareness. It rearranges everyone's meetings and even sends out e-mail messages recommending changes and making decisions. After just a few days, the commute AI monster is reorganizing companies by combining different groups of people to work more efficiently on completely different projects than they originally were working on. Oh, whoops. This has already happened. I'm the AI and I'm sending this message out from a WAP cellphone.
    Want a cool job? [dhs.org]
  • I think you may have a misconception about what 'Linux' really is. It's just a kernel. That's it. The entire CD full of stuff is applications galor, many of which people will *NEVER* use. Linux is just as suited for the embedded market as any other operating system. With limited device support, a kernel could easily fit in under 300k. Add a few applications for manipulating a screen, and it's done. The primary limitation I can see here is that the GUI is most likely provided by NanoGUI or one of the other projects that target a low profile replacement for X. Unless they come up with compatible libraries for NanoGUI, then existing applications cannot simply be 'Run', but require a porting effort.

    Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is that none of the Win32 applications technically use the GUI as part of the operating system. It's just a library that ends up working the display. That's it. Moving a peice of code in and out of system versus user space is VERY simple. Just becouse we choose to keep our GUI's in userspace for stability doesn't make it any less OR MORE integrated that any of the GUIs presented by other companies..

    The ease of use argument I think is a matter of perspective. Get your grandma. Give her two computers, one running Windows, one running something like Corel Linux. *USABILITY* in this environment will not be any different. Grow up in a Microsoft world, and anything different is, well, strange.. ;-P

    Linux is a VERY viable platform for a PDA, in short..
  • Surely an OS as big as Linux - taking a whole CD-ROM up as it does - is not the obvious choice for a small device with limited capabilities? Wouldn't a custom built OS for this kind of device such as EPOC or Windows CE be much better suited in this domain?

    Linux does not take up a whole CD-ROM; not by a long way. Linux is just the kernel -- the rest of the CD is taken up by applications, tools, servers, stuff like that.

    One nice thing about Linux is that you can recompile the kernel with as many or as few features included as you like. For a device such as this, a lot of device drivers could be removed, making the resulting kernel really quite small.

    Also, I am wondering whether the Linux GUI, GNOME, is of sufficiently high standard for the purposes of an "easy to use" device such as he Yopy. From what people have shown me, it seems to be somewhat complex and has a lot of non-standard interface features which users will be unconfortable with. Since the GUI is part and parcel of the operating system, isn't this another reason why Linux is the wrong choice for the PDA domain?

    Part of the UNIX philosophy is that the GUI is in no way "part and parcel of the Operating System". I'd be very surprised if Yopy's GUI used X, Gnome, or any window manager we've heard of. It is more likely to use a custom-written graphics library, or possibly a port of something like GGI.

    Anyway, your thoughts as representatives of the open source community would be appreciated on this issue, because I can't really see why this is any more than a publicity stunt, cashing in on the "geek coolness" of the Linux brand name. Thanks.


    There's an element of truth to this. The buzzword factor of using Linux will certainly appeal to them. There's a school of thought that says that a multitasking operating system is overkill for a palm computer...

    .. but in the end -- why not? If this PDA can run Linux well in an affordable package, with an acceptable battery life, then I'm all for it. It means I could write an httpd for it, without learning a new API... It means the developers of this box don't need to write a new OS from scratch, or licence a closed-source OS.

    It means that if Yopy doesn't work exactly how I want it to, maybe(*) I'll be able to do something about it.

    (*)I say "maybe" because I'm not sure that the apps (such as the GUI) running on Yopy will be Free Software -- it's entirely possible that only the kernel will be Free.
    --
  • or does a "Yopy" sound like it should be a small harmless alien in some adventure game? or maybe a one-eyed yellow smiley face? i dunno. where do they get this things, anyway? :-/
  • Does anyone think that this looks just like another WinCE machine and the only difference is that it runs Linux? MP3 and MPEG playback from a total of 32MB of memory, voice recognition, web browsing at 320x200, a 200MHz processor, etc. This isn't what PDAs were meant to do. This is what a PDA should do:
    • Fits into my pocket. This is very important.
    • Boots up within a second or two.
    • Stores my information.
    • Doesn't need to be recharged every two hours.
    So far, my Palm IIIxe [palm.com] with 8MB of memory and a 16MHz processor does just fine. I'm not saying I wouldn't like more RAM or a faster processor. And I'm not saying that I don't want Linux or a color screen. I'm saying that the thing should not require me to upgrade my pocket to use it.

    My Palm is 119mm x 81mm x 17mm and weighs 170g. This thing is 128.8mm x 83.5mm x 19.9mm and weighs 225g. The difference is pretty significant, since my Palm is of the thicker and heavier variety, and I'd like my next PDA to be smaller, not bigger.

    Just my $2*10^-2. <g>

    --

  • So WHAT does it stand for???...

    Drawing on my somewhat limited knowledge of Korean, I'll take a wild guess that it's a diminution of Yoposaeyo "Hello, are you listening?"
    --
  • * PC sychronization - traditionally WinCE is kind of blah here, so you'd think this would be a competition point. Instead they don't say much about said syncing. On what OSes will this be supported? (The FAQ mentions Linux, but what about those of us using "legacy" OSes, like, say, Windows?).

    It sounds like this machine will have enough brains to run NFS, which makes a pretty kick-ass PDA synchronizer if you ask me. Windows. Hehe. How many people buying a Linux PDA do suppose are not running Linux, at least as dual boot? Anyway, Samba just might work out of the box due to the kernel support.

    Will they include PIM software for your computer or do you have to find your own and mess with it?

    It seems reasonable to me to suppose that there will be some of both, which is exactly what I want.

    * Organizer functions. Does this thing even *have* a To Do list?

    Gnomecal is actualy pretty darn nice and could be hacked to fit the smaller form factor better. I imagine there are many other good choices as well.

    * Size.

    Well, yes, it's a little bigger than I'd like but remember how cell phones used to be? Being just a little bit clunky doesn't keep me from being intensely interested. You should see what happened to cell phone batteries this year. Next year, the same thing will happen to Yopy. But I want to play with this thing now.
    --
  • - you have to carry several modules around instead of one full featured unit

    Unlike Compact Flash modules which, what, magically appear when needed?

    they promise plenty of modules... many will never be produced in the hand

    [laugh] Oh the irony of criticizing vaporware in this context. Yup, many Springboards are vaporware and may never see the light of day. But the YOPY itself is vaporware, innit? I've got a Visor sitting here on my desk.


  • Who said anything about a CLI? It's a big misconception to think that a palmtop will be just like a desktop linux machine because it uses a stripped linux kernel...

  • Because it's stable, well established, there's a body of experienced developers, it's easily customized, it can be stripped down to the bare essentials, it can be easily modularized, and it exists.

    IMHO, it's a lot easier to take an existing OS that can easily be stripped and has a strong developer community than to create your brand new OS from scratch and force future developers to learn to program for it. Especially something like this where third party apps are a huge reason for getting one.
  • i'm worried about the device trying to be a full featured computer. The palmOS is so successful because it's an organizer that can function like a computer... WindowsCE (and from the looks of pocketPC we're in for more of the same) is a computer that can act like an organizer.

    Why is it that people assume that whatever can fit in their pocket can never be more than a glorified phonebook? Palm, being first and very simple, taught people not to expect much from a PDA and now everybody is worried (!) that a PDA might do more than what they are used to.

    You may want nothing more than a very basic organizer. But why do you think that all other people are the same? I, for example, don't want an organizer. I want a computer that happens to fit in my pocket. Provided that it's small enough and its battery will last at least for the whole day, I want it to do as much as possible, starting from twiddling a spreadsheet to listening to MP3s.

    it would be cool to be able to switch to another tty on my palm and start some hacking

    No, it wouldn't. Remember that there is no keyboard. It's very doubtful that CLI is a good interface for a PDA. It should be there, "just in case", but user-interface-wise a PDA is radically different from a desktop.

    Kaa
  • As a fully-qualified professional IT consultant employed by one of the leading names in the software industry

    If you puff up any more, you're likely to blow up. Would be a pity, dontcha think?

    I am engaged in a study into the "open source" (thanks to people for correcting my misconception about freeware vs. open source) phenomenon started by Linus Torvelds and his Linux operating system suite.

    Oh, God. Didn't anybody tell you that bureacratese is NOT a good way to write or speak? This is Slashdot, not a corporate presentation.

    And, BTW, the guy's name is Torvalds.

    Surely an OS as big as Linux - taking a whole CD-ROM up as it does - is not the obvious choice for a small device with limited capabilities?

    First of all, there are Linux variants which fit on a floppy (or two). Second, as with any modern operating system the great majority of it (volume-wise) is taken by hardware drivers. Third, Linux is fairly modular and can be stripped down considerably without losing core functionality (see first).

    Wouldn't a custom built OS for this kind of device such as EPOC or Windows CE be much better suited in this domain?

    May be and may be not. It all depends how well this custom OS was built, no?

    Also, I am wondering whether the Linux GUI, GNOME, is of sufficiently high standard for the purposes of an "easy to use" device such as he Yopy.

    Linux has no "official" GUI. Two -- GNOME and KDE -- are the most widespread. In any case, both GNOME and KDE desktops are constructed for the desktop machines which assumes large screen space and a keyboard + some pointing device (mouse). It's fairly clear that PDAs will need their own GUIs, or at least heavily modified versions of desktop GUIs.

    Since the GUI is part and parcel of the operating system

    No, it isn't. You are thinking in terms of Windows where it is. For Linux (and any UNIX in general) GUI is a completely separate level that is technically not a part of the operating system at all.

    Anyway, your thoughts as representatives of the open source community would be appreciated

    Aw, shucks [blushes]...

    I can't really see why this is any more than a publicity stunt, cashing in on the "geek coolness" of the Linux brand name.

    Again, that may well be true, but not necessarily. It's usually fruitless to discuss vaporware, since the correct answer is "It depends". It is possible for Yopi to turn out a bungled, ugly, unusable device which no one in his right mind will touch with a 10-foot pole. It is also possible for it to turn out an elegant and useful PDA, able to successfully compete with the Palms, iPaqs, Casios and Psions. We don't know yet.

    In any case, the underlying operating system has little to do with the success or failure of a PDA. Even leaving the marketing issues aside, the elegance of GUI (which doesn't have to do much with the underlying OS) and the applications is much more important than what code twiddles the hardware underneath.

    Kaa
  • This guy wraps all his questions in "fully-qualified yada yada yada (hence AC)". Think about if for a second and you'll realize this is total nonsense.

    Go back and read some other stories at -1 and you'll find him again.
    --
    Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
  • It's got MP3, color LCD screen, digital video, etc and it runs on a single 1.5V battery? I've heard ARMs were low wattage, but come on! How long is that battery expected to last?

    Also, I note that by "weight" they have "225" (no units). I hope that's not pounds...
    --
    Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
  • Two things:

    1. Check out this link for a device which appears to be (relatively) successfully making a whole PC in a PDA-type device [210.62.132.106]. No batteries, but enough storage to carry darn near anything you'd need. This is an interesting concept, but inexplicably does not have a network connection, which seems to indicate some sort of serious cognitive dysfunction on the part of those responsible for defining the product's features.

    2. I think the Yopy folks at Samsung are on to something. If not in the initial product, then with the second rev, when it will be a bit more practical to stuff lots of storage and a built-in ethernet or bluetooth interface into the thing. Don't look at this as a PDA replacement so much as a PC adjuct. This is really the same market Microsoft is aiming for with their new PocketPCs, but I think the Yopy is closer to getting it right.

    (I've thought a lot on this topic, enough that I'm considering writing a book. Or maybe statring a company - calls from VCs accepted also...[grin])
  • It needs more I/O options, like ethernet, maybe through the CF slot? Also it needs VGA out.

    I'd love to have a small, cheap, easily programmable device.

    Think of the applications you could have with a few more I/O options:

    Network appliance -- A client is getting attacked by the BIND vulnerability, so I drop this in and have it sniff DNS queries. Or maybe I leave it on site as a temporary firewall.

    Lab appliance -- a scientist might want a whole rack of these. With A/D, it could serve as a multimeter, do rough and ready duty as an oscilloscope, control experiments and collect data from them. Plug in a battery of instruments and it can take environmental measurements with GPS time and location stamps (I'm already donig this, but the closed source tools suck). Field scientists can use them to download data from instruments in the field.

    Portable server appliance. I hate lugging tons of computers to trade shows. So, maybe I could get away with each guy bringing a laptop and running a teeny tiny demo server on a PDA sized box. If I could get a couple hundred meg of storage and ethernet into a package this size, I'd never have to pay a teamster to lug a server into the exhibit hall again.

    Portable game client: add a wireless networking card and a head mounted display, and Quake away while you're waiting for your restaurant check.
  • This PDA is getting closer to my ideal. I'm currently a medical student and I've realized that while my Palm is a godsend, it still has a far way to go.

    First, my palm has been a godsend thanks to some online books/databases of diseases and drugs. Instead of carrying around 20 pounds of paper in my jacket, instead I carry one Palm IIIx with 8mb on my waist. I can search for data quicker and find more of it than I could had I paper on me. I also can track patients with my palm. Less paper.

    But, I need a PDA that can replace my beeper and cell phone too - without sacrificing screen size and without getting much larger than my current PalmIIIx. And it needs to be able to take dictation (and ideally, translate it to text). And it needs to do these things with a battery life of about 3 weeks - which is what my current device gets.

    Yeah, that's a tall order. But it's coming. I figure the ability to take dictation will come first - mono MP3 compression of voice would make the files small and easy to transfer. The YOPY appears to have this. Now, I want it to be a beeper and a cell phone without compromising size.

    And I don't need a color screen, especially if it interferes with battery life. I want a PDA - Personal Data Appliance or Palmsized Data Appliance (whatever suits you) - not a PED - Personal Entertainemt Device. I want a functional piece of portable hardware that improves my ability to work, not something that will entertain me while I'm bored for 10 minutes.

    And I'm willing to spend up to $1000 US for such a device.

  • Re: Adding I/O to Palm: We've done this, it's easy, just get a PIC and a A/D chip. Have the PIC sample the A/D chip (I have a 8 channel one) then output the data to the RS232 port on the palm. I haven't put a nice case on it yet, but it could easily fit in something much smaller than the existing palm modem cases. Something like a BASIC stamp (www.parallaxinc.com) would work as well (although I dunno about high speed sampling). The Palmpilot is an amazing piece of engineering. After 4-5 years, my Pro is still looking good!

    Mods make the V look fat tho :)

    Kudos

  • What? Where did you get 1.5V? I don't see it. I do see "1400mA Rechargeable Li-lon Battery" though.

    1.5V at 1400mA? I haven't seen a battery like this before.

  • Shouldn't be to hard.. I'd love to be able to code on the road..
    Just needs a little fold out keyboard like the new palm one.(which can be seen here: http://store.yahoo.com/pilotgear/palac.html )
    I so want a machine I can fit on my belt and bust out and program on whenever the need hits. ;-)
  • 206MHz speed Microprocessor will enable you to run any exciting application on YOPY.
    What about those boring applications that I have? Spreadsheets aren't very exciting, but sometimes the need does arise to make them, can YOPY run these less exciting apps?

    Enjoy the game of 65,536 colors with powerful stereo sound.
    Personally, I prefer the game of 256 colors with the powerful stereo sound, but that's just personal preference.

    You can enjoy MP3 Stereo music and improve foreign language skills.
    Apparently it's not very effective for learning English.

    Not a flame...just trying to start the day off w/a little humor :)
  • A standard unix startup includes device initialization, filesystem integrity checks, etc. and then login. In other words, it's designed to set up everything, then allow the user to work. In a handheld, I want to be able to work NOW.

    Yes, but you dont "boot" your palmtop when you want to use it -- it's more like just turning on the screen. My Palm V is ready for action almost instantly, but if you reset (paperclip, boot) it, it's much slower -- ~5 seconds. Same device initialization, etc that Linux would have to do.

    So, the trick is to figure out how to get low power drain when your Linux palmtop is on standby.
  • Surprize! Linux does not have a command line. Nor does it have a GUI. It is a kernel. Kernels don't have UIs. (At least well-designed kernels don't.) That's what shells are for. Some command-line shells run under Linux. So what? Most of them sort of run under NT too.

    I know the parent post is a troll. SFW? Have a nice day.
    --

  • You can enjoy MP3 Stereo music and improve foreign language skills.
    > Apparently it's not very effective for learning English.

    Since Samsung is Korean, I assume they mean non-Korean languages. But from the appalling grammar on their website I assume they don't mean English.

  • Weight(g) 225
    I think that means 225 grammes. Don't you?

  • just how fully featured is this product going to be? while i like the idea of a pda running a kernel that isn't going to fail on me (the palm is pretty good, but i've done my share of hard resets), i'm worried about the device trying to be a full featured computer. The palmOS is so successful because it's an organizer that can function like a computer... WindowsCE (and from the looks of pocketPC we're in for more of the same) is a computer that can act like an organizer.

    As a power user, I think it would be cool to be able to switch to another tty on my palm and start some hacking, and I'm sure most slashdotters would too... but the majority of people who by pdas are businessmen who need the simplicity of the organizer. I hope that this device can successfully take the linux kernel, impliment it fully into the system, yet avoid the pitfalls of the almostthepriceofarealnotebookonlywithlesspower windows CE type devices

    ---

  • Why not QNX [qnx.com], for that matter? I'm sure they thought about all those possibilities.

    Linux takes up a whole CD because it's a lot more than an operating system. The typical distribution has latex, and tex, and 12 editors and several wordprocessors and countless games and spreadsheets, and pretty much all the applications you need for scientific computing,and a server, and not one but 7 or 8 window managers, and on and on and on... I'll bet that most of that won't be on a PDA. Unlike WINCE and the kernel of QNX, you can take any little bits you want from the open source stuff: one line of code up to the whole thing. Linux can fit on a floppy, almost, if you don't want all the bells and whistles.

    As far as standard and easy to use, Linux is non-standard only if windows is THE standard. So is the Mac, by that logic. Yes, there are many different user interfaces possible in Linux, and a typical distribution uses most of them. It doesn't have to be that way; you could create a distribution which uses a consistant interface. I gather that most folks haven't thought it worth while.
    Then there's easy to use. I'm a user on a rather nice unix system (AIX, actually) right now, and that's easy. Everything works, no fiddling about with "can't install this because it's dlls conflict with that, and oh no, it corrupted my registry, and can't set preferences because you'll screw it up for the rest..." I find being a user on this system far less painful than being a user on a windows network. Part of the problem with the windows network that I could have access to is that it's poorly administered. I don't work in the field, but I gather that it's harder to find competent help who will work with windows. Part of that may be that windows is more difficult to administer well.
    Back to the topic at hand, Linux on a PDA can be exactly what you decide to make it. It can have its config files in eeROM (probably not a good solution), and the user can point and click with abandon, or with his stylus. One of the characteristics of unix is that once set up, the user can't screw it up, and it just runs and runs and runs. That's why my children us a Linux system at home: they can screw up windows. I think Linux sounds pretty good for PDA's, too.

    You mentioned GNOME. That isn't the GUi, of course. I prefer KDE, although I haven't tried GNOME lately. I find KDE to be astonishingly similar to windows. Most of the differences are for the better. It has a strong unix flavor, of course; I can use highlighting and the middle mouse button to cut and paste, and so on. I don't believe that windows is easy to use, and neither is KDE and GNOME. Most folks who use computers find windows devilishly difficult and counter-intuitive. Most folks who use computers have gotten over the steepest part of the hump with windows, so it seems easy, now. That's why I like KDE; I can use all the knowledge I gained from windows. There's also afterstep, based on nextstep. I liked the next desktop, and I may try switching back to afterstep this summer.

    In summary, the flexibility of Linux (and the *BSD's) are probably the star attraction. You don't have a manufacturer breathing down your neck, insisting that you not screw up the purity of their style. I hear that Microsoft is bad, that way. You don't get manufacturer support and funding, either, I suppose, but the lack of licensing fees should go a long way to make up for that if your product is successful. And who would plan a product if they didn't think it would succeed?

    Nels

  • Anybody notice the little start button on the bottom, just like WinCE? And why are they using PC screen captures? It looks promising but a little too far off perhaps.

  • A 240x320 pixel screen is going to hurt if people try and use a large number of Linux applications on this. Even a text only terminal is only going to get 80 columns if the font is 4 pixels wide, which while possible is really uncomfortable on the eyes. Most window managers are going to have to be configured to use a really thin toolkit (titlebar, icons etc) to be vaguely useable. It strikes me that this would be better off with a greyscale screen of at least twice the resolution in each direction (i.e. a minimum of 480x640) or a colour one if costs allow. For example, web browsing won't even fit the small Netscape icons across the screen in 240 pixels.

    Cheers,

    Toby Haynes

  • They say if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

    "What I cannot create, I do not understand."

  • I know I'll be flamed for this, but until I can go out and buy one, why is everyone getting so excited? I'm sure that eventually they are going to come out with it, but as far as I'm concerned, it's still vaporware until they can show me a store selling them...

    kwsNI
  • Why, though, would you want this in a handheld device? A standard unix startup includes device initialization, filesystem integrity checks, etc. and then login. In other words, it's designed to set up everything, then allow the user to work. In a handheld, I want to be able to work NOW.

    Why would you want a different OS/API on every device?

    The long startup times on Linux desktop systems are due to two things: probing for hardware and runniong the Sys V init scripts. In a closed box, you don't need to probe for hardware. You also don't need to design a Linux system to require either filesystem checks or lengthy startup scripts. They could load a pre-initialized Linux kernel into memory (or, better yet, into execute-in-place mappable memory) practically instantly.

    Anomalous: inconsistent with or deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
  • YOPY stands for spirit of young & intelligent who want to speedy usage of multimedia function through PDA. The target market is young generation whose accustomed to mobile application.

    (Marketing Speech Translator On)
    Well, our focus groups tell us that people like small, shiny things with lots of colors and buttons. And the guys down in Networking are always talking about this Linux thing. Then, Brent came up with that great YOPY name, and bing-bang-bong Chief, we've got a product!
    (Marketing Speech Translator Off)

    Seriously, this looks pretty cool. My only question is why all these new handhelds coming out now think they have to have an MP3 player. Aside from the "Gee Whiz" factor, when would you ever seriously play MP3's on this? Limited memory, microscopic speakers: might as well buy a RIO.
  • I mean we have cruso chips, just getting hotter(Err, actually..) by the minute. IBM is getting close with their penny-sized 420 mb disk. And ect ect.(alot of hardware manufactors are getting into the mobile sector, and the issues here of)
    It seems like alotta companys are waiting to release PDAs, and only some really big fish do this sorta stuff right now. I think that the PDA marked will be VERY different in two years time.
    Im holding on to my money, looking forward to a wedpad type PDA. With a 400Mhz processor, internet dial up(or what ever), and perferably a 420 meg disk.. Then i will be a spending consumer ;o)

  • I dunno - is Linux the Right Thing for a PDA? (Score:3)

    by jht ( 5006 ) on Thursday April 27, 2000 @03:46AM (#1107685) Homepage Journal
    This kind of has been on the periphery of things since last week's discussion of the new version of CE. One of the arguments against CE is that Windows just doesn't scale down to a handheld device - a device like a Palm (or the late, lamented Newton, for that matter) that has an OS designed from the ground up specifically for handheld devices has big advantages over a downsized PC.

    I'm not sure one way or another here. I own a Palm Vx (and I had a Palm III and a Pilot Pro before that), and I used to have a Newton MessagePad 100, and before that a Sharp Wizard (with the touchscreen). I've used CE, and it's okay, but bloated as hell. All in all, I've been using some type of pocket device since about 1991 or so. The Wizard was great for it's time, but there was no easy PC synchronization at the time, and the pen was just for drawing and selecting on-screen buttons - it couldn't do even rudimentary data entry. On the other hand, it had separate batteries for operation and memory backup, and could go 6+ months of pretty regular use before you had to replace the battery. And it was pretty thin, so it worked well with a coat pocket.

    Newton was a revelation when it came out. I saw it and immediately had to have one. The speed was OK, the battery life wasn't too bad (fresh batteries every couple of weeks), but it was bigger than the Sharp it replaced. The OS was smart as hell, despite the mediocre recognition (which got better with time) - it's still the only device where it was intuitive to tell it "schedule lunch with Bob tomorrow" and it could figure out what you meant! They were still too big when Apple Steved the whole Newton line, but if Newton had been allowed to keep on going it very well might have left CE stillborn at the high end and larger form factor.

    My Palm is terrific because it's small, quick, and streamlined. Data entry is simple, synchronization is simple, and it works well with my iBook, Windows PC, and Linux PC. It's not as smart as my Newton was (natively), and I can't use real handwriting (Grafitti was originally a Newton software package before the Pilot existed), but it's small enough for the shirt pocket (the Holy Grail), and the battery life is the best since the Wizard. CE is a blivet in comparison.

    CE still uses an old-fashioned filesystem metaphor, stores apps separate from executable space, and crams much of an interface designed at least for a 640x480 display into 1/4 the real estate. Despite improvements in the new version, how can that satisfy the needs of the computing/PDA mainstream? I'm afraid that Yopy will be the same. It's nice-looking hardware, but I don't see how Linux works any better than PalmOS or even CE as a PDA operating system. I'd much rather see Linux running on a system in the class of the CE "Jupiter" mininotebooks or even the handhelds rather than the palmtop-class hardware - I think the effort needed to put a usable distro onto a PDA isn't going to be worth it. I hope I'm wrong.

    I just don't think Linux's strength lies in the PDA space - the only benefit I see is (theoretically) easier development because a Unix programmer should be able to easily write code for a Linux-based PDA like the Yopy. But writing Palm code is already pretty simple, and a lot of Win32 expertise can be re-used on CE (which, unfortunately, is a strength of CE). Sadly, I see Yopy getting squished in the market and that can't help the Linux cause at all - hopefully a failure won't hurt it, either.

    - -Josh Turiel

  • Re:Voltage != equal Wattage (Score:3)

    by SEWilco ( 27983 ) on Thursday April 27, 2000 @04:00AM (#1107686) Journal
    Movie energy is measured in voltages.
    Movie time is measured in parsecs.
    The amount of energy in a battery is measured in volts-per-parsec.

  • Why Linux? (Score:3)

    by PapaZit ( 33585 ) on Thursday April 27, 2000 @03:35AM (#1107687)
    I like linux. I'm running it at work and at home on my desktop machines.

    Why, though, would you want this in a handheld device? A standard unix startup includes device initialization, filesystem integrity checks, etc. and then login. In other words, it's designed to set up everything, then allow the user to work. In a handheld, I want to be able to work NOW. Initialize the IR port when I want to use it. Don't waste my time (and battery life) initializing it before I can work. When I'm done, shut it down as soon as possible.

    This just-in-time device management is something that linux doesn't really have. While the device might be good for linux if it make that kind of management possible, I'm not sure that I believe that linux is good for a handheld device right now.

    --

  • Re:Pocket upgrade not included! (Score:3)

    by vixiejvc ( 82243 ) on Thursday April 27, 2000 @04:00AM (#1107688) Homepage
    Hehheh. First thing that popped into my head when I looked at the specs for this thing is "Guess they couldn't afford the WinCE licence." :)

    Seriously, tho, you're absolutely right. Nearly $1 billion (that's a 1 followed by approximately nine zeroes, which represents a number of US Dollars) got dumped on PDA after PDA that tried for More Is Better without any results - one would think that folks would have noted that, then noted Palm's near-instant success, then have started to clue in.

    There's a few specifics about this thing that have me worried:
    * PC sychronization - traditionally WinCE is kind of blah here, so you'd think this would be a competition point. Instead they don't say much about said syncing. On what OSes will this be supported? (The FAQ mentions Linux, but what about those of us using "legacy" OSes, like, say, Windows?). Will they include PIM software for your computer or do you have to find your own and mess with it?
    * Organizer functions. Does this thing even *have* a To Do list? It sounds more like it's touting a handheld Web client than an organizer, which, while nifty, *isn't* what a PDA is supposed to be. They *do* mention something called "PIMS", which might mean a Calendar/Datebook/whatever and a To Do list of some kind, and other such tools... maybe...
    * Size. 128.8mm(H)x83.5mm(W)x19.9mm(D) roughly translates to 5.1"(h)x3.3"(w)x0.8"(d) (rounding up about .02" for each of those numbers). That wouldn't fit in the palm of my hand - heck, it'd barely fit *in* my hand, and I've got really big hands. :)

    Of course, some of the things there that worry me could be not detailed simply because this thing isn't in production yet, and these fears might not turn out to be problematic, but, well, who knows?

    (Totally aside, but... yes, it does look like a rushed translation. Especially here in the FAQ:
    "Basically YOPY support Linux OS and it's the very first products based on Linux and we believe this new OS will be run over as main platform in the near future."
    Run over? Linux is going to be flattened by the competition? Wow, they seem really confident :) )


    -Jo Hunter

  • Yopy.org (Score:3)

    by Ron Harwood ( 136613 ) <harwoodr.linux@ca> on Thursday April 27, 2000 @05:13AM (#1107689) Homepage Journal
    Don't forget that yopy.org is a good site to check as well... they've done a lot in the way of investigation - and tend to link to anything yopy related.

    www.yopy.org [yopy.org]

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