Linux Word Processor Showdown 161
The following was written by Slashdot Reader Matthew Mastracci
Linux Office Showdown (Part 1: Applixware 5.0 M1 vs. KOffice pre-beta)
One of the biggest barriers to the acceptance of Linux on the desktop is the perception of those outside the Linux community that Linux has no support for Office suites and applications. As we all know, this is far from the truth. We've seen StarOffice, Corel, Applixware and the up-and-coming KOffice, but how many of these have you used? The choices are so diverse that people just end up trying or buying one of them and sticking with it.
In this series of reviews, I'm going to try to cut through all the hype and mystery surrounding these applications so that you can see exactly what each of these tools offers, without having to go through all the trouble yourself. I've come from the pure Microsoft Office background myself so I know (at least to some extent) what newcomers to the Linux-as-a-desktop environment will be looking for.
This review includes some beta and pre-beta software, meaning that it crashes often. I'm keeping the state of each program in mind as I write this review so you can be sure it won't take anything away from my review. Also note that I've put a quick overview of my installation experiences in this first piece to ensure you'll know what to expect.
These are the office suite word processing components that will be reviewed in this series of articles:
- KOffice: KWord
- Applixware: ApplixWords
- StarOffice: StarOffice Writer
- Corel Wordperfect 8.0
And for completeness, a few stand-alone applications:
- AbiWord
- KLyX
On that note... let the games begin!
KOffice: KWord (CVS Snapshot, Feb. 5)
KOffice is one of the new things that's going to be coming along with KDE2. It's not a clone of one of the office giants like StarOffice or Microsoft Office, but instead a full suite of tools for office productivity with a different set of features than others.
KOffice is such a huge suite that I couldn't review every part
of it in a single article. If I missed or skimmed over something
you're interested in, please send me some mail and I'll try to add it to
the piece as a footnote for future reference.
Installation
To fit my role as a possible end-user of the software, I decided to install this software in pre-built binary form. There are source packages available, but I wasn't looking forward to spend hours compiling all of the required libraries and applications.I grabbed the latest RPM build pointed to from the KOffice binaries homepage: http://koffice.kde.org/install-binaries.html. The one I took was the massive 29 MB RPM with everything in it. Once wget had finished, I just logged in as root and installed it using RPM. That was all it took to install. Wow.
Since I had downloaded the monolithic installation RPM, there were no library conflicts, no package installation order issues or anything else that might even consider giving me grief. Unless you have a good reason for it, I suggest you take this path as well.
From tinkering around with a few of the programs, I discovered that
I had to start dcopserver and kded - two programs used extensively by all
KDE2-based programs. Once those two are going, everything seems to
work like magic.
First Impressions with KDE2 (a short digression)
Okay, this review is for KOffice, but I'll take a few moments and say some things about KDE2. This is a very slick-looking package. There are way more applications and utilities included in this bundle than with KDE1. A few of the new ones I noticed include:- KDevelop: a development studio for KDE2 applications
- KDE System Control: a Windows device-manager clone
- AMOR: an "Amusing Misuse of Resources" that sits the titlebars of your windows and supposedly gives tips (the next paperclip clone?)
Back to KOffice
KOffice is composed of seven major tools, each with a specific purpose and each with the ability to be embedded in the other applications. These are:- KWord: a frame-based word-processor (you'll see what this means later)
- KSpread: the classic spreadsheet application
- KPresenter: a presentation tool, similar to PowerPoint
- KChart: a dedicated charting application that can be used with or without a spreadsheet
- KIllustrator: a vector-based graphics drawing application
- KImage: an image viewing/processing application
- KImageShop: a layer-based image creation application
Features
KWord is KDE2's answer to Microsoft Word. Don't take that the wrong way, though. It's not a clone of the infamous Word, but rather an amazing program that can act as either a frame-based document editor for desktop publishing (like FrameMaker), or a word-processer in the traditional sense (like Word or WordPerfect).
The first thing you'll notice about KWord is how different it feels from a classic word-processor. It sure looks like one, but the layout features take a bit of time to get used to. The first mistake you'll probably make is trying to figure out how to modify a frame you put down. Instead of right-clicking the frame to get its properties while you're in a text-editing mode (sorry, Iguess that's a leftover Windows thing), you need to use the "select frame"tool first (it's the second vertical toolbar from the left, the second button down). Once you have this tool selected, you can move and resize the frames to your heart's content. Right-clicking the frame in this mode will give you that elusive popup menu. Don't forget to go back to text mode after you're finished though (the button right above it).
You might wonder why things are implemented this way -- I assure you there is a good reason. Imagine how much time and frustration you'll save yourself knowing that all of the frame objects on your page are essentially static while you're editing text. One of my biggest beefs with the Office suite is the wonderful habit your images have of moving around the page and possibly moving a number of pages down the document if you aren't careful. As well, if you go back to a program like Word, you'll find yourself cursing every time you go to move a text box and start editing the text inside it instead or vice-versa. You don't have to worry about hitting that magical, invisible grippy border that Microsoft expects you to use to move your objects around.
I don't know if it's possible to tie a frame to a particular piece of text, however. This could be useful to ensure your image always follows a description, for instance. There might be a way to do this in the current version, but it wasn't obvious for me (believe me, I looked). It would be nice to be able to set some sort of reference marker, so the image would have position specified relative to the page (as it currently stands), or to the marker, so that moving the text around would move the frame as well.
To help to write documents with consistent layout, KOffice has a solid text style implementation. You can format your text in a number of different header styles and then generate a table of contents from those directly. The "Stylist" command allows you to go in and change these styles to your heart's content. Unfortunately, it seems as if the only table you can generate is a table of contents, and that seems to be hardwired to generate it from the headings. Allowing arbitrary index generation to the release version would be a big benefit.
There are also a number of other great features in this program, like a spell checker, support for tables, generation of tables of contents and the ability to embed any KPart in a document (like a spreadsheet or chart, for instance).
Conclusions
Overall, I'd say this program is well designed and relatively stable, especially impressive given its current alpha status. It's simple to use (after a half-hour of retraining yourself), intuitive, feels responsive and has most of the features that I'd need to write a great technical report. Of course, there are some issues with layout, but they've got enough time to work these out before the release. Best of all, it's free (as in speech) and has a great team of developers behind it.
My final KWord tip:just be careful not to hit the close button if you've got unsaved work (you did save, didn't you?). There's no warning that you haven't committed your changes to disk and no autosave. Uh oh!
Keep in mind that it's still not even a beta yet and many if not most of these issues will be gone by release time.
As the KOffice team says:
"Note: This is not even alpha so it
might compile and might work
(normally it does), but we do not recommend
writing your master thesis with KOffice
yet!"
Applixware: Applix Words (5.0 M1 Development Release)
Applixware is a long-time member of the office suite community. The latest development release version of their software, 5.0 M1, has limited support for the GTK widget set.
At the time of writing, Applixware is currently being chastised for a violation of the LGPL. The application suite is statically linked to the GTK libraries. It seems as if someone from Applix may have noticed this, however, as any official downloads seem to have disappeared from their FTP site. There's still a link off Freshmeat to an alternate download site that still has it, but I assume that it should only be a few days from the time of writing before it comes back up with a dynamically linked version.
At $99 for the 4.4.2 Deluxe Edition for Linux, it's not a bad deal for a commercial office suite. The demo lasts for a couple of months, so you can take your time evaluating the suite before committing yourself to purchasing it.
Installation
At a whopping 80+ MB, the demo of Applixware might not be in everyone's reach. If you're on dialup, I recommend getting a friend with a Zip drive or CD burner to grab you a copy. Make sure you've got a couple hundred megabytes available on your HD as well. I thought Microsoft Office was big!
Installation of Applixware is just as simple as for KOffice. Applixware is commercial, closed-source software, so there are no source tarballs. You'll need to grab the tarball and run the installation script as room. They've set it up to put all the RPMs in the right spots without any user intervention. If you're planning on uninstalling it in the future, make sure you keep the removal script handy!
Everything should work right out of the box. As mentioned by one of the Freshmeat comments, it seems to have some trouble with pixmap themes. It doesn't affect the operation of the program, so you don't need to worry.
Features
Applix Words starts up with a light-weight GUI. Even though they claim GTK compatibility, it looks like they just take the colors from the theme and apply it to their custom menus and toolbars. It still looks good, but reminds more of Netscape than a GTK program.
One of their big selling features are the import filters. I decided to try them out by importing my resume from Office 2000. It came out looking virtually identical to the Office version. There were a few minor layout issues, however. One of the header tables had changed size, forcing my telephone number to drop down a few lines and leftward across the page. This was fixed with a simple cut-and-paste. It also insisted on adding space between some bulleted items. Format/Paragraph Settings..., change the insert space before and after text and voila!
Now that I have a beautiful resume in Applixware, how do I get it to the masses? The File/Print... dialog in Applixware is simple and straightforward. It has support for both PostScript and PCL5 printers. In the version I have, there seems to be no way to print other than to a file, but I'm not complaining. It's nice to see my resume in all its Postscript glory. Applix Words is WYSIWYG, too.
Creating original documents isn't quite as straightforward. Coming from a Microsoft Word environment, I'm used to using styles extensively. Even though Word's support tends to be buggy at best, it's still convenient to have a common look-and-feel across a document, as many of you must realize. A blank Applix Words document doesn't come with any of the nice styles, making it virtually useless for anything more than a shopping list. That's okay -- there's an enormous selection of document templates, ranging from letters to reports to press releases. It takes a while sorting through all of the cryptic names, but you can usually find one to fit your purpose and tweak it until you like it. I must say it's nice to have more than just a single style.
In addition to slick styles, Applix Words has support for cross-referencing and a table of contents. These are two features to look for if your job requires technical report writing. As far as I can tell, there aren't any styles for figure and table captions, meaning you'll have to add a couple yourself to create a list of either of these.
If you're one of those people that enjoys using cheesy clip-art, Applixware is the right suite for you. There seems to be thousands of images from all sorts of characters. I still have nightmares about "face 04" in the People category. *shudder*
I have a few minor issues with the user interface. Every once in a while, the flicker of the document pane while using the menus is little annoying. As well, there's a problem scrolling some documents where grey bars appear. That can get annoying at times if you're trying to do a random seek on your document. Applixware is still beta, so hopefully these won't be around in the final build.
Conclusions
Applix Words is neither free as in speech or in beer, but is worth the price if you're looking to spend money on a solid-looking word processor. Add on to that the support for styles, cross-referencing, tables of contents, equations and other nifty features, and you've got yourself a great tool for developing technical documents under Linux. The import and export features ensure you'll never feel left out of the Windows community.
Feature Comparison Chart
I hate to say it, but most charts of this kind are biased towards one product or another. I've tried to make this chart unbiased to reflect the requirements of a technical writer, rather than showcase the features of any single product. Any word processor can create a simple document, but there are a number of features that make creation of a technical document much simpler. These are the features (in addition to the required features of the programs) that I've chosen to include here:
- Styles: Support for document text style is important, especially from the view of the technical report writer. It allows someone to spend more time on the content, rather than the layout.
- Tables: Table support is important when organizing data in regularly-spaced, easy-to-read formats. To see why tables are important, try reading table data in a browser like Lynx. Yikes.
- Indexing: Generation of TOCs and Lists of figures and tables makes a document writer's life easier. Without them, you need to go back at each revision and manually change page numbers. I guarantee you'll miss a few.
- Printing: Why word process if you can't print? 'Nuff said.
- Import filters: In a world of Windows, it's inevitable that Word- and Wordperfect-format documents are passed around. Being able to import a number of different formats only adds value to a product and allows it to integrate more seamlessly into the work environment.
- Equation editing: Not all technical writers require equations, but those involved heavily in math, engineering or computing science theory will find this useful.
| Product | Devel Status | Download Size | Cost | Styles | Tables | Indexing (TOCs and other) | Printing Capability | Import Filters | Equation Editing | Stability | Look and feel |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| KWord pre-beta | Alpha | 29 MB | Free | Yes | Yes | Yes | PostScript | Minimal | Yes | "Quirky" | Excellent Responsive |
| Applix Words 5.0 M1 | Beta | 80 MB | $99 | Yes | Yes | Yes | PostScript
or PCL5 | Extensive | Yes | Solid | Good GUI tends to flicker |
Conclusions
The concept of "Linux on the desktop" is getting closer to reality on a weekly basis. From the strong showing of KOffice and ApplixWare, we can see that the world of word processing and other office work isn't a dangerous task for Linux fans. The experience of creating documents under Linux is far from painful, especially with the fully featured office suites available.
KOffice is still a ways from being a complete, stable office suite, but is very feature-complete for being alpha status. The interface is busy, but not cluttered, and almost everything necessary for a good document is available. It's fast, responsive and feels very lightweight. Keep your eye on this one -- it's going to be great. Oh yeah... it's free too.
ApplixWare is a lot older, and being so gives it a huge headstart on KOffice in terms of features. It's way bigger and feels a little overwhelming at times. They haven't put work into making it look as pretty as it could, but it gets the job done, and does it well at that. Hopefully by the time it's past beta, they'll have done some work on the UI. At the given price ($99 for the previous version, hopefully the same for this one), it's a pretty good deal.
Whichever package you choose, you can still rest assured that Linux is and will continue to be a productive desktop environment, rather than just a hacker toy it's been seen as in the past.
Re:Free as in beer (Score:2)
I was trying to do something like this at a community center our LUG was helping setup. Right now they are using Windows95 as a microkernel for StarOffice, but as you all know Windows is anything but "micro".
What I wanted to do was migrate them to was very simple local installations of Linux, X and SO only (maybe using remote boot images from the Linux Terminal Server Project [ltsp.org]. It would have been great, I could have them boot and load SO from a local HDD but have their home directories and mail on the server. SO can do mail, calendar, web browsing, Java, as well as word processing, spreadsheet, presentations, database, etc. so the local admin would only have one program and file tree to maintain.
Unfortunately this won't happen now because they hired a Windows guy to admin and teach, who doesn't know the first thing about Linux. He got frustrated the first day (probably a permissions thing on the Samba shares, maybe he wasn't logging in as himself, who knows?) so he fdisked and formatted the server, without even asking us for help. He is using Win95 File and Print sharing instead of a Samba server, what a maroon.
KWord GUI comments (Score:1)
* drop-down menus' style is clearly Mac-like. this gives noticeable speed gain: dropping the menu not only selects current item (as often elsewhere) but puts it against your mouse pointer (so accidental click doesn't ruin anything: it only selects what you already have).
* toolbars are as well more Mac-ish, and why this is important? most monitors are horizontal rectangles, that is, with the long side on bottom; so that vertical screen real estate is 'more expensive'. have few toolbars in MS Word and there's not much space left for actual document. vertical toolbars are much less obtrusive (coz most documents look like, well, vertical rectangles).
Great! all i wait is Mac-like menu bar (which in some measure is already present in KDE) and consistency, please?
Re:If reviewing betas, why not WPOffice 2000? (Score:1)
Re:There are others to look at as well (Score:1)
Re:Chart addition: (Score:1)
- KOffice is cross licensed between the GNU Public License 2.0 and Artistic (the same as Perl, a very liberal license). You are free to choose between the two.
- KDE Libs are all avalible under the GNU Library/Lesser GPL.
- Other KDE Apps: Depends the Author's Preference. At minium they must be GPL'd to be included as part of the standard KDE distro, many are cross licensed with the GLPL or the Artistic License.
- Qt, is the KDE widgit set. Qt is free as in beer to use for X11 Systems. Programming is also free with Qt, assuming that your software's source code is under a "free-ish" license, like the GPL, artistic, BSD or the alike. The only issue with Qt is you must clearly label patches to the "offical" Qt product, and you can't start your own Qt source tree. Most of the people at Troll are extermely active KDE developers -- so they essentially open to any kind of stable patch that improves Qt, but doesn't damage or break other things. This is much like the Linux Kernel.
And alas, see me post above -- KOffice isn't 29 megs. The KWord binary is only 365k -- it uses shared libraries extensively.
Somebody mentioned HTML? (Score:1)
Perhaps we should also consider HTML, the most portable document format. It is not as hard as TeX/LaTeX to learn (or to process) and also give you structural composing. It is my choice when I don't have TeX/LaTeX installed on my Win-tel PC. Give me an editor and a web browser, I can print a beautiful paper. (including images)
A lot of debates are focused on Vi v.s. Pico, Emacs, word processor v.s typesetting program. However, many people omit how computer can help us improving our writing. TeX/LaTeX, HTML/XML/SGML are very good at keeping us thinking about What we are writing and how to present the ideas through styles and fonts. That is the weakness of most WYSIWYG programs.
Dupilcating the functions of WYSIWYG of words on Linux is wasting time for Liunux programmers. The killer application should be something which can help people write there documents with easy to use Interface, shallow learning surve and the power of structual composing. HTML is a language in the right direction for structual composing, however, we need better editors. (Vi is enough for me, but I can not teach my wife vi, the only choice for her is notepad.exe -:)
BTW, wp.html [wfu.edu] is a very interesting article related to this topic.
Re:Chart addition: (Score:1)
- Konqueror, A Full Featured Standards Based Browser, that reguluarly beats Netscape on W3C tests. (It's quite small -- relies heavly on KDE Libs)
- KOffice, KWord (365k binary itself -- uses lots of Sharedlibs -- so it's very efficent!), KSpread (A pretty decent spreadsheet, although some functions are still a bit cryptic to access, KPresenter (A full presentation app -- if you haven't tried it -- it's quite full of effects -- many that are really part of the KDE Core libs). And more....
- KDE 2.0 Libs - A full set of libraries, designed to make writting KDE apps easier by providing developers a full set of functions. From advanced gradient support to many common KDE dialogs to the advanced khtml 2.0 engine.
- KDE Utils - Many popular KDE 1.x add ons (including Caitoo and KCrontab...) plus all of the KDE 1.x packages.
- KDE Games - Again half a dozen new games... Plus all of the classic KDE 1.x.
- The brand new KWin and Kpanel Window Manager. All of the theming stuff, plus several themes, Pixie and more.
- Plus everything else in KDE 1.x, except with more features, and some new apps.
- KDevelop will also be part of it, but I am not sure if it's in the tarball yet.
By the time it ships, with all of the code complete, and debuging symbols removed, the total of all of the packages should weigh around 35 megs for everything + about 2 megs for the QT-2.0 binary. That's a hell of alot of functionality for a complete desktop enviroment, dozens of utils and apps.
Microsoft wouldn't be able to ship that much functionality on a CD
Re:vi damnit! (Score:1)
If they will change the way KWord and the alike edit text, I don't know. I am sure they would be more then happy to accept patches.
Lyx and Face 04 (Score:1)
First of all, who else is going to get Applixware just to see what that "face 04" is?
Also, I adore Lyx [lyx.org]. It is the best thing I have ever seen for writing up math, the equations are excellent.
Ralph Furmaniak
The Great AIP (Artificial Intelligence Project) [sourceforge.net]
http://GreatAIP.sourceforge.net
Re:My kind of word processor (Score:1)
I do this mostly for the nice spell checking Emacs and Ispell provides.
Are you kidding? (Score:1)
Having the source code would fix all three of those problems:
1) If it doesn't work, fix it.
2) If it does work, but I can't figure out how read the source.
3) If it does work and I know how, but I don't like it change the source.
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Re:Pathetic Moderation... (Score:3)
Damn you people (Score:1)
Who really cares how much of a techonological stud you are? "I can use VI", "I can use Pico", "I can flip bits with my teeth" Big whoopdy doo.
The General Public will never accept Linux if you people keep insisting on clinging onto the blank screens of text editors. People need WYSIWYG. They need a sheet of papar rendered on the screen. They need I-bar cursors, pulldown menu bars, toolbars, ruler bars, scroll bars, drop and drag; things that they are already familar with. The secretary down the hall won't use vi. My Mom will never use emacs. My company's customers probably has never even heard those things. We will be forever bound and stuck in this dammed Micros~1 world until we can SEE something better. Help us. Help us do columns. Help us do spell check. Help us do TrueType fonts. Help us have one common file format for easy file exchange with our coworkers and customers. Help us tell us what other WPs are out there. The only one that people know about is M$ Word. (Sure, there is WordPerfect, but "Who uses that?")
Re:The UNIX way (Score:2)
While I live and swear by the "Unix way", I don't think a word processor is its place. A word processor is intended to be easy to use and to give you an integrated environment to do fancy stuff with your text. If you want raw power, use TeX or LaTeX. But sometimes, for typing a quick letter or a table, a word processor is the easiest way to go.
I use Emacs+LaTeX myself for mostly everything, but I see the need for good word processors.
--Diego
Re:The Sad State of Linux Office Applications (Score:1)
I agree with one sentament, the Word Processing/Office Suite market hasn't had any major technical innovation in 10 years. There is very little that I couldn't do with my old, circa 1989, copy of WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 that I can do now.
Not that there hasn't been better, innovative ways to work with words, like LyX (which is based on tech that is older than the hills, TeX and LaTeX) but they haven't caught on. People still make slides as if they were (and some still are) being printed on film, people write letters as if they are using a dumb typewriter (tab stops, underlining, manual labor in formatting, etc.). The only one of these softs that is much different is LyX, everything else is the same old hat.
PS. The preceding post is probably not worth a -1 Troll and should be remoderated up IMHO
Re:KWord GUI comments (Score:1)
FYI - you can put the toolbars exactly where you want in MS Word, vertical, horizontal, free floating, long and thin, square. Your choice
That's what's needed, not "mac like" but totally customisable.
Your testing was not extensive enough (Score:3)
On this point even AbiWord beats Applix. It may not import most of the stuff properly and break most of the layout, but it does not blow up. Also, it does not work for half an hour before blowing up. It does not take X windows on a 192MB machine with it when it goes down on a failed import.
I would suggest you extend your tests with a proper selection of MS antidocs. Especially the ones produced by non-release Word versions. I mean those that MS word has sometimes problems reading.
While on the same topic a good test is also reading exported "compatible" formats. For example Corel Word fails on importing something written by StarOffice in an MSWord format. Applixware blows up, etc...
Re:vi damnit! (Score:1)
Re:Applix and LGPL (Score:1)
Re:klyx??? It's a couple of years out of date . . (Score:1)
Chart addition: (Score:2)
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Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Re:If reviewing betas, why not WPOffice 2000? (Score:1)
KWord looks cool! (Score:2)
(Scriptwriter, the Free Film Project's adaptation of AbiWord, is good, but I just feel that KWord is where things are at.)
Re:MS Office 2000: Nothing on Linux can compete. : (Score:1)
The only complaint that I have about StarOffice is that its import filter for MS Word doesn't work quite right. I imagine that this will eventually be fixed, and it only misbehaves some of the time, so it generally isn't a problem.
Now, I will say this: if you're unwilling to learn even the slightest bit of new behaviour, yes, MS Office is the de facto standard. However, packages like StarOffice (and KOffice, ApplixWare, Corel Office, etc.) can usually give you the same results, with the same amount of work involved, as long as you're willing to deviate from the Microsoft Way of Doing Things .
meisenst
klyx??? It's a couple of years out of date . . . (Score:4)
Currently, lyx is moving towards toolkit independence. Some of the klyx code may be cannibalized, but the customization to change toolkits won't really carry over. It has been the intent from the time that klyx appeared that it be rolled back into the main lyx distribution.
Anyway, a klyx comparison wouldn't be nearly as useful as one for lyx iteslf . . .
Re:Data Formats (Score:2)
Free as in beer (Score:1)
(speaking of beer, check out www.borg.no for the homepages of Borg Breweries in Norway. No english info, unfortunately
Re:KWord looks cool! (Score:2)
I've actually thought about this too - but I personally think KWord has so many features we won't need to write scripts (all the framing stuff, for example, which is the whole concept of KWord) that I'd rather stick with the current version [which has everything we need and very little else].
Btw: For those who don't know what we're talking about, ScriptWriter is a modified version of AbiWord to handle scripts instead of texts. It can be downloaded at http://www.freefilm.cx/ScriptWriter [freefilm.cx].
Re:vi damnit! (Score:3)
Humorous (Score:1)
I understand and agree with your points. Alot of text based editors have a high learning curve, gui based are easier to learn and are useable to a much larger popluation.
I meant it as a funny comment. (Notice the smilies at the end.)
Re:vi damnit! (Score:1)
>they were setting up optional vi keybindings.
It should be MANDITORY.
And they should set up the Y, U, N and M keys so I can move the player, I mean cursor, diagonally.
:)
Re:The Sad State of Linux Office Applications (Score:2)
Amen to that my brother. *Configuring my printer* has been on my action item list for the past month but it seems like such a pain in the arse. I downloaded the CUPs demo and aspfilter but I don't know which way to go and I feel like I'm just flailing around. This has to get easier.
That has to be my biggest beef with Linux right now... my printer output just pretty much blows. It's okay if I'm just printing out a todo list or maybe some tricky code snippets for my own viewing, but I couldn't print out my resume and feel good about giving it to somebody.
So.. I guess I'm just bitchin but it feels silly to keep win95 on a partition just to print out my friggin resume.
Re:klyx??? It's a couple of years out of date . . (Score:2)
<p>
Not entirely true. If you take a look at the KDE 2.0 CVS tree, you'll see it has at least been ported to the KDE 2.0 libraries. There are even plans to make it KParts-compatible, so you can embed klyx documents in other KOffice components.
<p>
I agree it is currently lagging behind plain lyx feature-wise - but that may change soon.
Re:Chart addition: (Score:1)
You might look into StarOffice, which is, if not open source, free (cheap).
Applix Word and StarOffice in a M$ environment (Score:3)
Between the two, I have to say I preferred the Applix philosophy and user interface -- it felt like a successful cross between the traditional GUI platforms and the EMACS windowing philosophy (windows go anywhere; each window has more or less all the functionality of any other). In contrast, StarOffice sticks everything inside a single large "desktop in a window" that acts completely differently than Gnome/KDE/Twm.
Applixware has excellent user support. Let me repeat: Applixware has excellent user support. I have submitted more than ten bug reports and comments, and their technical staff have diligently followed through on every issue with alacrity, competence, and speed. I'm very impressed with these guys' follow-through. On the other hand, Applixware isn't really ready for prime time yet. There are still lots of minor "gotcha" glitches due to sloppy coding (probably because of the rush to market). For example, their olefilter engine for import/export of Microsoft documents doesn't work too well. I exported a 50-cell excel spreadsheet and tried to re-import it, to find that two columns and al the formatting had disappeared. Many microsoft word documents appear to hang the olefilter entirely. Their mailer uses shell script calls, and the address isn't properly escaped from the shell -- so addresses of the form "Joe Blow <blow@foo.com>" disappear semi-silently (the shell picks up the brokets as redirects and spits an error message back to stderr, where you're not likely to see it).
The detailed interface in the Applixware products is just different enough from both my Mac habits and my emacs habits that it's frustrating. For example, neither ^W nor ^X is a key combination for "cut" -- you have to hit F6 or something. Why do vendors seem always to insist on re-inventing keycodes? On the good side, they offer extensive macro changing capabilities; but OTOH I haven't got time to learn a whole new macro editing language just to get my word processor working right (I'm too busy reading /. ..). There are many broken links in the documentation tree. On the good side, they've done a pretty nice job of writing the drool-proof pages online. The tutorial and users' guide is friendly, informative, understandable, and thorough. On the downside, the grease-stained pages aren't there yet. They need some sort of reference manual where I can quickly get the information I want without wading through paragraphs of carefully written handholding that is edited for 6th-grade reading level.
StarOffice is more polished and its keycodes match convention better. If you've ever used a microsoft product, you'll feel right at home -- it feels like a clone of the windoze environment. The downside is that it feels like a clone of the windoze environment. There is so much that is broken about the styling of the user interface that I must constantly deal with low-grade annoyance while operating it. But I'm much more productive in SO than in AW, mostly because I don't spend nearly as much time trying to figure out what clever paradigm the programmers tried to work out.
Neither of the packages is interoperable enough with Microsoft Word that I can do joint document development with my benighted brethren at our other sites. That's unfortunate, as it means I have to support Word on at least some platform -- and I'd been hoping to get rid of my macs (never have used Windoze). Looks like I'll have to hang on to 'em for at least a while yet.
word editor != word processor (Score:1)
Cross-Platform Solutions (Score:1)
This is the idea behind AbiWord [abisource.com] -- a cross-platform open-source word processor that uses an XML-based format as its native file format. The current version runs on Windows, Linux, BeOS, Solaris and other Unix systems. A MacOS port is said to be underway. Don't get me wrong, the features are not there yet, but I think it's a good direction...
Re:While I'm at it (Score:1)
it imported my hand-made laTeX resume without a hitch. The output is via TeX, and it is so beautiful it makes you want to cry.
http://www.lyx.org
close/open, or edit the file (Score:2)
I *really* gained from the plain text file when I was stranded in a motel with a laptop containing an older version of my dissertation, and a couple of printed versions with changes to be made.
I made a copy, edited a copy, and took a diff. When I got back, I used patch to apply the diff to the newer version, and was immediately in business. [B
The BIG RPM (Score:1)
Re:close/open, or edit the file (Score:1)
Another option that could be cool -- wrapping cells in WYSIWYM mode (i.e. if cell width is fixed, or enlarging the cell would cause table to "spill over" the edge of a screen, wrap text in WYSIWYM [but not necessarily in
Frame Properties (Score:1)
Mind, I haven't used the newer version -- I'm at a school, and know this through the Graphics/Design course, which necessarily uses older hard/software.
________________
Spelling fingerprints :) (Score:1)
People CAN NOT fake you properly with out knowing you (and your spelling "fingerpring") in detail
Note [Hemos.] has an invailid e-mail and web url (he includes his added dot in both) but [Hemos] has a valid e-mail and web url
Also if the real Hemos had the addatude tword Katz that the HemosDot guy has Katz wouldn't be a SlashDot author...
Re:vi damnit! (Score:1)
Sam TH
AbiWord Developer
Sam TH
Data Formats (Score:5)
I don't think it is possible to overestimate the importance of the issue of data formats, at least not in the context of looking at word processors. If you want your document to be usable five years from now, it is ludicrously unacceptable to use whatever "document embedding" scheme MSFT uses this year.
The format has several notable effects:
- If it is "text-based," this may mean that you can email documents without worrying about special encodings.
- If it is text-based, this means that you may be able to modify the document using other tools than the word processor.
- If the format is based on some normative standard, this means that you can expect to be able to create documents using external tools.
I believe that KWord uses XML as its native data format, with a disclosed DTD. ApplixWare uses a tagged text format that looks a fair bit like SGML. AbiWord uses XML. StarOffice and WordPerfect use not-particularly-readable binary formats; WordPerfect's formats have historically been disclosed, but writing programs to generate it is a NonTrivial Task, whereas StarOffice's format appears to be a big unknown.Note that the spreadsheet [hex.net] XESS promotes this as a "selling feature."
(Others may say, uuencode is your friend. )
That's useful for debugging, solving problems, modifying the document when you move it over to a laptop that doesn't have the word processor installed and have to use vi.
For instance, if the program uses an XML-based format, it becomes reasonable to write a Perl, [perl.org] Python, [python.org] or Scheme. [hex.net]
Example-of-the-week: I've been working on generating spreadsheet files for use with Gnumeric. The plan is to write Scheme scripts that pull data out of GnuCash, [gnucash.org] and generate reports. I haven't gotten to the "extraction" part, but have generated some pretty slick demo spreadsheets.
Someone in a law (or para-law) office might want to create a document template scheme where they run a K001 GUIed program that asks for names and sundry fields, and then generates legal documents. Given a sufficiently "open" format, that's pretty practical.
Using formats where there's at least some visible ASCII text seems to me to be the only reasonable way to go. I'll remain a bit skeptical of XML; just 'cause it's buzzword-compliant doesn't mean that the DTD will be in use in the long term...
KOffice printing considered broken (Score:4)
-monotype-arial-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso8
The end result is that sometimes, your fonts print right and sometimes they don't. Of course, there is a way around this: You simply work out what names Koffice is guessing for the fonts, and add the appropriate mappings to your ghostscript Fontmap
However, they really do IMO need to do something about the screenprint font mapping problem. In fact, IMO one of the main things Linux needs right now is a standard way of providing the developers with the means to grab a shape file ( if there is one available ) from a screen font name.
Re:KLyX? (Score:2)
One of the problems with plain lyx is that it uses XForms, which is a proprietary library.
KLyX replaces the XForms calls with KDE/Qt calls. It will still run with any window manager if you have Qt and kdelibs.
Replacing proprietary stuff with opensource stuff is always a good idea if it doesn't break anything.
Applixware vs. StarOffice (Score:1)
Re:word editor != word processor (Score:1)
Re:Applix Word and StarOffice in a M$ environment (Score:1)
The only complaints that I have of Applix are these:
1) Key bindings - It really irritates me that every application vendor wants to re-invent the keyboard bindings. I think it would be really nice to have this set up in a "Preferences" menu. Then I can choose to use Applix default bindings, vi, emacs, or Microsoft-like bindings. Talk about what would really help the user! I am too used to the emacs bindings so I do everything via the menus in Applix Words, but my wife is too used to the Microsoft bindings so I know she'll never consider using Applix because of the perceived learning curve (even though I think ApplixWords is really well done.)
2) User interface/icons - Applix really needs to hire someone to re-do their icons and make them easier to read (and make the buttons bigger.) The GNOME team has some nice-looking icons. It baffles me why Applix would continue using such God-awful icons. It reminds me of the quality of icons we had back in the Win30 days! The screenshot from the above article seems to show that the icons haven't improved. (And how about changing the "*" to something a little more meaningful... like maybe your Applixware logo or a "document" icon or something?)
3) New style creation - While I really like the style creator in ApplixWords, where all your styles are presented in a tree-like layout so you really understand the style inheritance (and the "Import Styles" feature is nice, if you have another document that has all the styles that you want already defined!) but it's a pain in the butt to create new styles. Microsoft Word actually got this part right. If I don't have a particular style defined that does something for me (maybe just an indented paragraph, but the whole thing italicized) under MS Word I would highlight, indent, italicize, and type in a new style name. Not too much of an interruption in my work to create something that I know I'll use later in the document. Under ApplixWords, I have to stop my work, go into the Style creator, and define a new style. These little interruptions are really annoying.
If Applix will fix these issues, then I'll be a much happier user!
learning curves measure learning, not lack thereof (Score:1)
a high learning curve
learning curves measure how much learning (y axis) per how much experience (x axis). So, steep learning curves (which I would map onto your "high") mean "easy to learn", the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Why don't they get the point (or is it me) (Score:1)
I have been working out there long enough (doesn't take long though) to know that everybody makes their own Template macros/pages so that all their documents will look the same.
Now, with that in mind, why not make a "word processor" that does exactly that;
Stores all information in lets say an XML document and keep that Template-look in another file or whatever, just *not* in the mainfile. Only having the export-feature doesn't help, it only gets used when it's being presented in another environment.
It's the information that we want, not the font style.
Yes I wanna use my Emacs to write my documents and yes this is what WWW could have been, but isn't.
So someone has to start over before it's too late.
As someone pointed out earlier, why do it the MS way.
International Support (Score:1)
It would be nice to see future reviews mention the languages supported by the word processor.
Filters are critically important (Score:1)
Re:Damn you people (Score:1)
My, my - what an accomplishment for them
Okay, Okay -- I use Pico... what's your point?
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Re:word editor != word processor (Score:1)
Although, I do have to wonder, why KLyX instead of LyX? While I will admit, I prefer the Qt appearance over what's used in LyX, it's not enough to get me to switch. LyX seems to be, in my experience, a more stable and more featureful program.
If you want the power of LaTeX with the ease of a word processor, you really need to give LyX [lyx.org] a try.
Why KWord is/will be better (Score:4)
Because KOffice as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The real edge of Koffice lies in KParts my friends:
for a start the individual components of KOffice wil interoperate in a way that is standardized across KDE. What it means is that all the new applications will be able to take advantage of KOffice rendering capabilities (it should be possible to attach an audio file to a KPresenter presentation or automagically play a movie file embedded in an HTML document).
Basically the strength of Windows is the high degree of applications interoperability that Unix world haven't had up until the dawn of KDE.
Yes, I know that Gnome is trying to do the same but it seems to me that KDE is much further down the integration root.
I can already hear those crying that *nix should avoid desktop integration and rely on small utilities to do everything. Bullshit, I say to them. There is nothing bloated about having a standard protocol for applications talking to each other and exchanging the data (if you do it properly that is).
This is what COM and KParts are all about and it's good. COM was the best idea Bill Gates ever conceived and even his implementation is pretty stable now. KParts is doing the same for Linux. If they don't end up writing a desktop environment that offers a comparable to Windows level of integration I'll be really upset. They have the right ingredients (GUI, OS)and the last time I checked KParts I was truly impressed. Its structure is much cleaner than COM/DCOM - they certainly learned from Bill's mistakes. I'd say, give them a year and we should see something that will make even the Redmond guys take a very close look.
Re:Getting WordPerfect 8 for Linux to print (Score:1)
While I'm at it (Score:2)
The biggy: tex import. Lyx can now import virtually any latex using reLyX. reLyX generates modern lyx, rather than the old dialect spoken by klyx.
The version of lyx that klyx comes from (.11.x) is at best beta (but still far more stable than any commercial word processor I've used save Word Star 2.x), while regular LyX is a complete release-grade product. The only thing I know that's anywhere near as stable is vim (and I presume other vi).
Re:What About a Different Way of Doing Things? (Score:1)
I also agree that the write-compile bit gets in the way for some people, but a larger problem is that working in LaTeX makes it generally more difficult to just try a change to see how it looks. WYSIWYG editing may not be perfect or ideal in many situations, but it has its place.
That's why I use LyX (which has already been mentioned several times) for so many things, I get the benefits of a strong equation system and pretty Postscript output, but I get that instant looks-good/looks-bad feedback on things. Admittedly, the displayed document doesn't always exactly match the PS output, but you get a good general picture of it right there in front of you instead of just in your head. LyX also has a preview that creates the PS file and opens it in ghostview or gv for final checks, and the export-as-LaTeX is good for the occasional touch-up.
Re:There can be only one: EMACS! (Score:1)
But I use VIM!
Applix and LGPL (Score:1)
So who can explain to me why this is a problem? Isn't that the entire point of using the LGPL instead of the GPL? Has Applix actually done anything wrong, or is this another case of uninformed everything-must-be-open-source bigotry?
Re:Wordprocessor requirements (Score:1)
I'm not sure how the moderation works, but can this be moderated a little higher so that people know FrameMaker is available.
MS Office is more than word processing/spreadsheet (Score:2)
In particular, many documents in a corporate environment contain templates, input fields, and scripts/macros. MS Office also supports revisions, indexing/search, and database functions. None of the MS Office clones handle the full range of day-to-day documents that appear in a corporate environment, both because they lack compatible macro/scripting capabilities in particular, and because they lack some of the other, seemingly more esotheric features in general.
A lot of people have spent a lot of time learning, and come to depend on, the idiosyncracies of MS Office. Anyone who wants to displace it faces an uphill battle. At the very least, a credible alternative must provide good import/export, scripting, macro, and template support (considerably better than any of the existing systems do). But there also would need to be support for workflow features (a web/server-based system might be an attractive alternative to the MS Office mess). And I think it would be essential to offer any open source Linux office suite on Windows as well to make the migration as easy as possible.
Of course, a more basic question to ask is still: while this could be done, why should the open source community bother? MS Office is ancient technology. Perhaps rather than focussing so much on cloning and displacing MS Office, maybe it would be better to explore new frontiers: better markup-based environments for text processing, data analysis tools that are less limited than spreadsheets, server/web-based workflow and groupware, easy end-user programming, etc. If people come up with something genuinely better, the users will come.
Re:Shouldn't you post the full article? (Score:2)
No reason why it can't apply to journalism.
Re:The UNIX way (Score:1)
First a few points:
WYSIWYG == graphical != command line
graphical != small programs (in most cases)
It should be easy to see that commmand line pipes to do extend to graphical WYSIWYG programs.
But it should still be possible to extend the "Unix Way" to GUI programs, if we extend the definition a bit. How about "small to medium sized programs which do one function really well and are easily extended and integrated."
How to have the "Unix Way" in a GUI environment:
Modular: A core program which is easily extended though modules. (The GIMP, Apache)
CORBA embedding: Separate programs for separate functions which can run inside each other (Koffice, GNOME)
Scripting: Provide a way to programmatically execute and extend the function(s) provided by the application. (The GIMP)
Component/Glue model: Write the complex parts of the program as components which can be accessed from a scripting language. Glue or wire the components together via the scripting language. (Sketch, TkDesk)
Personally, I advocate the Component/Glue model. You are already modular and scriptable, and most scripting languages support CORBA as well. The interface code is always there for the user to customize, rather than having to install the source and recompile.
Are there any other ways to extend the "Unix Way" to a GUI environment?
Re:What About a Different Way of Doing Things? (Score:1)
The Open Source way (Score:2)
As far as features that I would like to see listed in the table:
Re:learning curves measure learning, not lack ther (Score:1)
Not as I understand it. As I recall, a learning curve graphs usefulness (x axis) versus necessary knowledge (y axis). (This does seem a little backward, as the independent variable is generally on the x axis, so I could be wrong, but this is the way everyone uses it.) Thus, a "steep learning curve" represents something the requires a lot of knowledge about the subject to to do anything useful in it.
--Phil (I had a nice little post on the subject a while back, with pretty ASCII charts and everything, but can't find it now.)
Appliware is NOT statically linked w/GTK (Score:4)
Also the themes are not working because for the M1 release we chose to ship the GTK libraries that we were testing with, however they point to the wrong location for the themes. We will not be installing our own GTK for the final release, however it makes it easier to repro bugs when we we all use the same version of GTK.
Re:KLyX? (Score:1)
First of all, KLyX was based on an outdated version of LyX from the beginning, and it's developement has stalled compared to LyX. Secondly, while I personally find the appearance of Qt slightly nicer than that of XForms, I don't like it's license (For Qt1. Qt2 has mostly fixed this.).
Either way, that doesn't make it such a good thing. LyX is currently in the process of moving towards GUI independance, so that it can be used easily with mulitple GUI toolkits, including gtk and Qt. When you consider that LyX is much more featureful and stable than KLyX, that it seems to have greater active developement, and that it is moving towards a GUI independance that will render KLyX obsolete, it seems silly to pushy KLyX over the superior LyX.
Re:The Sad State of Linux Office Applications (Score:1)
I truly feel that Word 5.1a2 for the Mac was/is the best Word Processor ever produced. The stuff added since then is used so rarely that it should NOT be a part of the basic load-this-at-program-start group of "things".
(The a2 version fixed an annoying bug that would occasionally blow up the program when you scrolled upwards).
Re:word editor != word processor (Score:1)
Because LaTeX is nowhere near to being in the same class as the programs he's reviewing. LaTeX is really a markup language (well, more than that, but it's not exactly WYSIWYG). It's not exactly newbie friendly, either. (Considering that TeX is a programming language in its own right...)
You'll note that he is reviewing KLyX, which is a WYSIWYM editor that generates LaTeX, giving people access to the (IMHO) beautiful LaTeX and TeX engine while being a little more friendly to newcomers.
--Phil (Personally, I write everything in LaTeX--having flown, I couldn't bear to have to walk anywhere again.)
Re:Data Formats (Score:1)
*embedding binary data( eg images) in base64 in an XML file is a bit skanky
*searching a whole bunch of XML files for a particular attribute is much harder than with a well designed binary format. However, for full text search, a background process doing indexing is probably the only way. Thats going to be part of what Eazel are doing, so this point may be moot.
I would like it if XML were able to be used, but the performance for, eg, an embedded 40meg video, is not likely to be great.
The correct way to create gnumeric spread sheets from other applications is through bonobo automation - and if in doing this you come across something too hard to do, you should get on to the gnumeric developers and tell them your woes. These interface changes will be easier to deal with than if the structure of the file changes.
Re:Why don't they get the point (or is it me) (Score:2)
Re:Chart addition: (Score:2)
You can customize Keycodes in Applix (Score:2)
Under the "*" menu, choose "Customize Menu Bar...". The dialog box a list of top-level menus, which you can open and customize. The entry labeled "Keys->" is not a menu item; it actually is a list of all the key mappings! The interface is not especially intuitive or well-documented, but it works.
I'm much happier since I have been able to make the Delete key work correctly.
Re:The Sad State of Linux Office Applications (Score:2)
The only current printers I can think of that you would have trouble getting to work would be crappy GDI-only printers. Most printers even if they aren't directly supported can emulate something that is (like my Panasonic).
Re:KWord looks cool! (Score:2)
It is currently available as source (should compile on pretty much anything) and as RPM for Red Hat Linux 6.2.
Shouldn't you post the full article? (Score:2)
If the article has to be broken down, surely one comparison of the commercial WPs (StarOffice, Applix and WordPerfect) and one of the free WPs (Abiword, Kword, Klyx) would make more sense, rather than comparing the upcoming fifth release of a commercial WP with the upcoming first release of a free WP. Oh yeah, and neither Abiword nor WordPerfect should really be classed as a stand-alone app - Abiword will be part of Gnome Office, and WordPerfect will be part of WordPerfect Office.
Interesting, but lacking :-(
There can be only one: EMACS! (Score:4)
Emacs has everything one desires, including the kitchen sink. Who needs a word processor, when you can have the GOD of text editors. Remember: UNIX is a process that runs under Emacs.
Of course, this entire comment is a complete joke. Sorry, I just could not resist...
Aaaaaah, the smell of flame wars in the wee hours of the morning. =)
LyX not KLyX (Score:4)
Also, the goal of LyX is quite different from an Office suite or a Wordprocessor.
More info on this great document processor here [lyx.org].
If reviewing betas, why not WPOffice 2000? (Score:3)
Otherwise, I think the qualifications you ahve added to the reviews of the beta versions of KWord and ApplixWords, will make the usefulness of any overall conclusions limited.
MS Word vs Open Source (Score:3)
The UNIX way (Score:5)
Maybe a word processor really isn't quite suited to traditional UNIX integration. LyX does come closest though. It uses LaTeX as the underlying format, and processes files through dvips to make postscript output. If you want to edit the underlying format by hand, you'll find that it is nice plain old LaTeX code. You're never locked out of the machine in other words. With the other word processors there's a feeling of isolation. When I use them, I'm not running a Windows box or a Linux box, I'm a word processor jockey. To me that feels icky. I *like* being immersed in the UNIX environment. At least there's a choice available that I can live with.
Re:Word Import/Export (Score:3)
Corel has done tables like that for the Win32 version of WordPerfect Office 2000. Since the forthcoming Linux version (actually running under a separate Wine session) is the Win32 code adapted to Wine, the Corel tables should still be good. I don't expect any changes in the conversion filters, but could be wrong.
You can download the Corel conversion tables at http://www.corel.com/support/downloads/wtpapers.h
WordPerfect 9 Conversions (North American and International versions)
WordPerfect Office 2000: Compatible Solutions
WordPerfect 9 Transition Guide
There's some overlap in these guides, which are in PDF format. One (can't remember which) compares the steps needed to invoke a procedure in MS Office and WP Office. The others compare features and spell out what converts directly, what won't convert at all, and what is converted in altered form.
It would seem like a futile effort (Score:2)
A new port also seems similarly futile--it will not be compatible with versions of Lyx proper coming out in a few months,due to the new device independence.
hawk
Re:The UNIX way (Score:2)
Base the word processor on XML. Then you can make all your tools based on that.
Make a msword2xml program. That would make everyone happy with word importing.
Make a formatter program. This will allow to the user to try different stylesheets. This could be implemented as an interpreter linked with CORBA. When the user changes the stylesheet, it also updates the GUI display via Corba.
The editor program. This could be the largest binary of the word processor. It's job is to display the XML document with the current stylesheet. It will be linked with the formatter via CORBA to change styles immediately. The user will edit his document here. It should also update with fonts and formatting in real time. This is one of the GUI programs.
The second GUI proram would be called wpcontrol. This is the users nice GUI program to launch all the command line tools. Import and export Word docs, change the styles using the formatter, and using any other tools the user wants.
I guess there are several problems with this. Like not being able to but in images (well, can't the images be placed in a tarball with the XML file and be linked to it?), not quite as user friendly as MSWord (user needs to abstractly format thier document).
Gotta go.
Re:The UNIX way (Score:2)
I'm not sure that this traditional Unix way fits at all in a GUI environment. Yes, it's nice to have a GUI app that's small and does just one thing well, but the other half of the Unix way requires that everything be a filter. How the hell do you do filtering on a desktop? Draw lines from the file icon to xspellcheck icon to xLaTex icon and then to the printer icon?
One way that KDE2 is keeping this "small is beautiful" and "everything works together" philosophy is through components. It works much, much differently but keeps the simplicity and flexibility.
"LyX does come closest though. It uses LaTeX as the underlying format, and processes files through dvips to make postscript output. If you want to edit the underlying format by hand, you'll find that it is nice plain old LaTeX code"
Don't forget that KLyX is still a KDE application, and may very well be made an official part of KOffice. Take a good look at KWord though. Underneath it, and all of KOffice, is XML. It's all hand editable. It also makes writing filters a snap. Talk about the "Unix way", you can write a KWord to abiWord filter with sed! If you can't do anything with with XML using those beloved unix filters, you've lost all sense of imagination.
Even KImageShop uses XML as its base. The actual layers, brushes, etc, are in PNG, but wrapped together with XML, then gzipped up to save space.
Re:The UNIX way (Score:2)
My friends, it's time to stop using programs that turn your computer into a glorified typewriter. You need the power of a document typesetting system, you want the ease of use of a GUI interface, you can have it all - LyX.
Re:The Sad State of Linux Office Applications (Score:2)
On the otherhand I have also used both Staroffice and Wordperfect 8 under linux (neither extensively). These also seem to work fine for writing documents for printing elsewhere (never did get my printer properly configured).
But in addition I could have written code and surfed the net (had I not been studiously writting up my project that is)!.
In essence for the average user one WP is much like another, basic style support and some form of graphical import is all thats really essential to the base user.
just thoughts!
Word Import/Export (Score:5)
Its something that is of particular interest to me as I have written the wv library(mswordview) [wvware.com] which abiword among others uses to import word documents, along with a sample word to html program (which has a config file allowing word to latex and word to groff possibilities)
Such a table of all possible word features is painstaking to create, and repeating the process of importing and exporting word features from abi/so/corel/applix and kword so as to compare them properly is a huge task, but one that really needs to be done, it is no good saying "the import of word documents is ok, needs a bit of work afterwards to fix it", a company or other heavy word processor user that is thinking of linux needs to have better information, and more precise data as to how good or bad is the import
You can have the best little wp in the world, but you have to have very good word import to be able to interoperate with others and not go completely insane with the poor quality import, so we need to isolate the capabilities of word and address the import of each of them point by point. Text attributes, graphic capabilities, ole import, equations, tables, table attributes, language support, revision support, absolute layout, hypertext capabilities, forms, etc etc etc
This is a task that requires no programming ability only patience and a copy of microsoft word, create a huge amount of documents that are an example of just about every feature of word and make them available as a test suite for various wp's importers. It would help greatly to have a database of word functionality, then you would have some data of enough validity on which you could fairly judge which wp will provide the best value for users which need to work with others in an organization which runs predominately word, i.e. all of them
C.
Re:klyx??? It's a couple of years out of date . . (Score:2)
Hear hear. I've recently taken to do presentations for my local LUG [madisonlinux.org] and find LyX 1.1.2 a great benefit. It is pretty easy to learn (took about a day or two of use, would have been less if I wasn't fighting with KLyX first) and generates really nice documents. Not only is the formats for printing nice but with LaTeX2HTML you get great HTML copy as well as PostScript.
Once you figure out the interface (which is really ugly IMHO) it helps you out in many ways, like the fact that the Table of Contents object in your document is a clickable button that brings a popup with a tree of your document structure, just click on the area you want and you are whisked there.
Anyway, Go LyX 1.1.2!
Re:Free Plug (Score:2)
Okay, you're pluggin your beer, I'll plug mine
(speaking of free beer, check out www.meer.net/~arandir/code.html for home brewing software. English info, fortunately
Re:MS Word vs Open Source (Score:2)
It must be truly amazing to be at the so huge that if your activities are widely regarded as criminal, you can just change the laws.
--
Data *Should* be King (Score:2)
If the intent is for the only way to create GNOME application documents is via Bonobo automation, this BADLY breaks the UNIX principle of "Data, not Behaviour."
It is a reasonable idea to expect to be able to use text processing tools to generate documents. The notion that the "correct way" is "through bonobo automation" is roughly equivalent to the notion that we need to embed GNOME closure generators into every development tool, and that seems to me to be a desparately terrible idea.
If we're embedding 40MB videos into spreadsheets, I suppose it may be appropriate to enforce a "it's gonna be binary" rule, but it seems to me that that restricts GNOME to being a useful framework for managing complex porn web sites.
Wordprocessor requirements (Score:5)
A good word processor for Linux would be really nice. I've been burned by MSWord so many times that I'm getting used to the smell of smoke.
The primary feature it *must* have is compatability with Word documents. There are just too many users of Word to ignore their documents. The resume import was a good test since it usually involves frames and styles.
My favorite word processor of all time is Framemaker. And now they have a Linux version [adobe.com]!. I don't care if it's not open as long as it works. It writes it documents in ODMA (an open document language) so it's input/output is open. If Adobe stops supporting it, then any other product that can read ODMA can read your doc. It also outputs to XML.
More features that need review:
import of equations and tables from Word
anchors! can you control what they are stuck to? how far will they float?
BIG DOCUMENTS! Framemaker still flew in a doc that was over 400 pages w/ many pics/code/equations/tables. Word chokes after about 50 pages of heavy tables/equations.
good HTML export. Tables/equations again...
Add Wordperfect and Framemaker to the next review.
-tim
LaTeX (or TeX) (Score:3)
Let's see: it's complete, if you find a bug Knuth will pay you, it does the world's most beautiful equations (I'm a math student), does indexing, has device independent output, and is free as in thought. The only "problem" is that importing Word documents is sketchy. Plus you get the awesome "look and feel" of your favorite text editor.
Broken screenshot link (Score:2)
It would be nice if we'd see a word processor as full featured as word that's also free (in both senses of the word!).
There are others to look at as well (Score:4)
Your review is quite nice & interesting, lacking in only one thing: it is not full. If you are setting the goal to review just word processing software, than it should not matter whether AbiWord is a standalone app or not. And yes, if reviewing betas (and even pre-alfas as with KOffice) -- better review WP2000 than an outdated WP8.
LyX definitely should be on the least. It is great for many things, while so much different than any other package you might consider stacking against it. With its WYSIWYM vs. WYSIWYG metaphor it lets you put together a document in a much more efficient way without going into LaTeX/TeX/SGML.
You may also want to include Adobe's FrameMaker 5.5.6 Beta for Linux [adobe.com] -- this is a great package as well. Bring power of desktop publishing with ordinary word processor ease of use -- all within a beta package set to expire some 10 months from now (31-Dec-2000).