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Linux and Satellite Internet Services 99

Posted by Cliff from the searching-for-information dept.
jd142 asks: "I'm considering getting a satellite dish, DirectPC, for high speed Internet access. Has anyone had experience setting one of these up with Linux, and if so, does one distribution do a markedly better job out of the box? I'm not interested in the DirectPC push content; I already pay for a decent news feed, so all I want is highspeed download from the Web, ftp, and news. This will go in a PC I haven't bought yet, probably a CyberMax AMD 700 or 800 Athalon dual booting some flavor of Linux and some flavor of Windows. Thanks!" Satellite Internet service? Now this is interesting. Where can one find more information on this?
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Linux and Satellite Internet Services More

Linux and Satellite Internet Services

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  • in the UK.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    check out Evesham Micros here [evesham.co.uk]. they offer a pc package that includes satellite Internet access. as someone said, download is good, but upload really really sucks.

  • Helius has it for $200 (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You can get the linux drivers from helius
    www.heluis.com

    but. The DirectPC has one of the worse customer services I have ever seen and I will not advise using DirectPC if other alternatives are available. A modem and a phone line is required because it is telco return system.
    FT

  • Satellite/Network service in Europe (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As will have been pointed out eariler Satellite links are not very good in a one-2-one situation.

    They have a high bandwitdth, which is shared, and are uni-directional, i.e. you need a modem link as well.

    Where they come into their own is in the streamimg area, such as live webcasting (which is exactly the same as broadcasting), or when you have one-2-many. A good example would be say a high street store updating a product index every night, or the distrobution of the latest kernel to all the minor sites.

    There are two companies I know of that are using it:

    • Astra Net
    • Canal+: French broadcaster who transmit PC software, unfortunately windows based. You use their app to select the 'Games' you want and then wait for these to be transmitted.
    Hope this is helpful, Mungewell.
  • I read that you get reamed on the direcpc rates with this setup?? Is this not the case?
  • Hello everyone. I used to do tech support for DirecPC about a year ago. I must say that that product is absolutley horrible about 80% of the time. The reason is because of a policy called the 'Fair Access Policy' or "FAP". This means that if anyone is 'abusing' the system, they slowly **WITHOUT WARNING** ratchet down your feed to the speed of a 56K modem. This then stays that way until you either

    a) Cease the 'abuse' of downloading (which can range anywhere from approx 50M to 100M.

    b) Log off for about a day.

    In both of these cases the speed slowly rises back up.

    Also, another issue that is of concern are the gateways that it uses. They FREQUENTLY went out. This (of course) would mean that a lot of people would get slow downloads (or none at all) for days at a time.

    When the customer called for ANY of these issues, we had to keep a tight lip on everything that was happening. We had to do one of the following if it came to a gateway or a FAP issue came in (which was 95% of the calls):

    a) NEVER tell them they are being FAPed, and never mention that process. Blame it on something else.

    b) Blame the weather.

    "Sir, is it cloudy outside?"
    'Yes, its a bit overcast but the signal meter says its strong.'
    "Yes, that could account for the slowness and it should clear up when that does.'

    HAHAH... I swear thats what we were supposed to say.

    Finally, installing it can be a pain since you are looking for one transponder thousands of miles away. The window is about 3 centimeters wide, and some people simply cannot find it at all.

    While I dont mean to bash the company, this is just what the MAJORITY of the problems were. I would recommend another alternative, but just like every argument, there is another side. There WERE some satisfied customers, but these were ones that did infrequent (at best) web surfing and then turned it off.

    ++Om

  • >For my money, i'd just get a DSL, ISDN or Cable connection and wait a year or two for the cost of indecently fast connections to get cheaper. You might also look into a T1 frame relay if money isn't an object.

    Mind, most of us who are looking for this live in areas where none of the afore mentioned methods of connecting are available. In my area, it's 26.4kbps (even with a 33.6 modem - analog phone lines are of too poor quality) with no ISDN or DSL option available from GTE. The local cable company will not service where I live due to their reliance on an old survey of the area (at that time, there were 7 residences on the road, 2 of which had satellite, 2 others were weekend only, now only one has satellite and the rest are full-time.) Since they are legally prohibited from charging me the cost they would incur to run the 1 mile+ of cable it would take to reach me they refuse to run a service out to that area.

    So, my only option is wireless. Yeah, I'd love to have a better method, but it's not going to happen for the forseeable future. Besides, from what I've heard from the people who have cable modems from the various local cable companies (it isn't uncommon for there to be a dozen or so different cable companies with their own contract area in a county) they're not worth it as the cable operators are trying to avoid the expense of upgrade to make the throughput worth-while (one user commented to me that they go straight 56k modem between 7-10 pm as it's actually faster than cable modem is for them.) DSL isn't available in this corner of the state, and ISDN is still priced high.
  • I've personally been looking into satellite service for the school I work at in Rural Poland. (I'm a US Peace Corps Volunteer, currently using a 9600 baud GSM connection to post this) It won't cost anywhere near $400,000 USD for a 2-way satellite connection. Real prices for 256k?

    From Crawford:

    "The satellite equipment is about $15,000 US. The monthly service is $1,500 for a dedicated 256Kbps connection over satellite."

    From NetSat Express:

    "Well, I would say that $1500/month is rather cheap. I would have normally asked about $2400 for that. However, please check whether this is
    CIR. We sell CIR chunks in 2M carrier, so you always have your CIR but can burst up to 2M for free (if other part of the carrier is not used, which does not happen very often of course). And your price does not depend on traffic but only on CIR. Do not know much about what exactly they sell. Our complete hardware would cost you about $6000, with antenna. But, you would need at least the Cisco 2500 series."

    So, if you have money 2-way satellite isn't a bad deal. If you're poor like my school is, it isn't an option.

    I'm currently looking into spread-spectrum radio at 2.4 GHz to bridge the 35 km gap between my school and the nearest ISP. (can't get a phone line here. :-) )

    -JB



  • I know this may be a little off topic but here goes. I have been told by friends of mine that have or currently do use a satellite ISP's that lag is REALLY bad. From what they say irc, icq, aim, any games, etc... perform poorly with such a service. If you don't use many applications that rely on fast response time you should be ok. Just beware....
  • My Dad had this until a week ago when DSL expaned to cover his home. The coax isn't 10 base anything, it's the rf-coax from the dish/tv. It's over-priced and requires and ISP. Although when he canceled it he said, DirecPC does 2-way now? Dunno if that's true, or widely available.

    As far as performace goes I ususally got a sustained rate of 20-25Kb.

    The card he had was coax pci card.

    BTW if some really brave person would like the card to write a driver ... needs a spare ... I don't think my dad will need it again.
  • Amidst the few noteable exemptions are satellite news feeds and stuff but you hardly need such a staellite service.

    Hardly need such a satellite service? You obviously know nothing about the media world... most of the Reuters, Associated-Press, Knight-Ridder, and other news wirefeeds mostly rely on satellite... I am a sysadmin for a local newspaper and its network of websites (www.nandotimes.com), and we use the hell out of those satellites (albeit the fact that they are slower than 56k modems).

    And i dont know how much they rely on them, but i always see plenty of dishes on the rooftops of banks... so I'm pretty sure they use the hell out of them.

    The interfaces for these are surely very proprietary but for Linux to survive in this sort of business field, the kernel developers, et al. are going to have to strive to make this sort of thing work.

    --Neil Cooler
    Unix Admin, Nando Media
  • I've talked to several people that use DirecPC and they've all reported that frequently, their downstream throughput is worse than a modem. After doing some research it seems that the more bandwitdth you consistently consume, the more they cap you. One guy I talked to found out his downstream was being capped at 36k. Quite a far cry from the 400k they promise.
  • If you go here:

    http://www.helius.com/ [helius.com]

    Maybe this will help...
  • Just checked it out, and they have a software only version, for Linux or NT that lets you use the PCDirect Hardware if you already have it.

    http://www.helius.com/ DirecPC/Software_Downloads/index2.html [helius.com]

  • If I remember correctly, with a satellite connection you download via the satellite so you have got high speed, and you upload with a classical connection (modem, DSL, cable, aslthough the last two would be a little be silly with a satellite).

    What I would like to see in the future would be equipment powerful enough a affordable enough to transmit TO the satellite.

    Anyway, I guess that if this come true one day we will have more story like the crackers that took the command of a british satellite (I don't even remember if this was a true story or an hoax).
  • Neither. I'm in the middle of the USA and have had it for about 6 months or so now. The only real problems I've had is general Windows 98 goofiness. My wife uses 98 so the dish is plugged into hers and I get online via Winroute. Sometimes when 98 crashes, I have to rerun the autosetup since some of the settings get lost in the process. Yes, I may be in the minority, but there are at least a few people who are happy with the service :)
  • Um, I don't know when you had this, or how it was set up, but I've gotta seriously disagree with you here. I've never been FAP'd. I've sat and downloaded many game demo's (around 50 or so meg a piece) and have downloaded the RedHat updates directory via ftp several times. Every time I sustain around 50 to 55K a second for the duration of the download.
    And before people start spouting off about cable and dsl, you might want to consider the fact that not everyone lives in an area where these things are available. Some of us still live in towns where a modem is still the only game in town.
  • The company that handles the network edition of DirecPC is Helius [helius.com]. They have a Linux "Satellite Router" based off of Caldera OpenLinux. You can get just the software, if you have the dish and card (which I do) in a "Lite 4-user" version for $199. I just ordered it. Haven't got it, yet. Great for a small home or office network. Still have to get an account (monthly) with DirecPC (Hughes) and an ISP for outgoing info. A bit bigger than a mini-dish (and elliptical), about 21". Coax to the card in the computer. Ethernet out of your ethernet card to the other systems. The box (basically a router) and up to 3 other machines share the connection. -chill
  • I'm just curious. From reading your post I gather that Toronto (and Hamilton from the reply) don't have ADSL or Cable. Is this true?
    And if so, what kind of run around has Bell and the cable companies given? availability etc.
    Wireless seems to be the answer for rural southern ontario where it's relatively flat and a microwave internet antenna could be installed on every cell tower.
  • I work with their stuff and know a fair ammount of how it works, and sure, you might be able to find some third party external modem for this, but the thing is their software, the one that logs you on and downloads the decryption key (from the sattelite) isn't available for linux. I think by third party solutions they mean using a Windows box as your gateway (ie, nat32) to get in.

    As it stands, the only two pieces of hardware they sell is a USB modem and a PCI card, both with the coax input. You'd still need to load their proprietary software to log into their network installed on something.
  • In Australia where DSL and Cable are all but non existant, Satellite is a good option. Several providers now offer this service, and for people out of town like myself, this is about the only high speed option.

    The price of it is very competitive too, apart from the initial setup costs that is.. For a permanent connection with a 300mb download limit from one provider is about AUD$60 a month, where their modem access is about AUD$30 a month.
  • A coupla years ago, Hughes contracted Caldera to
    write linux drivers for a california school system. Although i saw the press releases, i never
    saw anything on Caldera's site. I would also assume it was for their 2-way dish's. Anyway, anyone know what ever came of this?
  • For people in the UK, have a look at www.internethypergate.com. They claim to be putting a system up in the next few months, but it all looks a bit ropey to me. Plus, as people have pointed out, the latency would be high.

    The other drawback is they want you to use their "credit card" for online purchases, and I suspect are going to bombard you with ads on a regular basis.... they claim to be doing this for free and will even provide the necessary hardawre for Windows boxen....

  • I know many people who have the same kinda setup and it just doesn't seem to yield any thing to well. If your in an Area were Dsl or Cable Modems are unavalible and feel the need to shell out the cash then it is a good solution for higher download speeds but keep in mind, you still need that ol' 56K modem to upload.
  • We used helius at our small rural business. We found that while their product in theory should work pretty well, we had considerable problems with their support. We had to send PCI cards back and forth to Colorado, spend hours on the phone, and it never did work. So, I guess they might work for some people, but it didn't work well for us.

    They supplied us with a router, but wouldn't give us root, it had some modified version of linux on it I believe. We were trying to use our ISDN for upstream and the satelite for downstream.
  • if you can get copper to the bush and put an NT1 on it you have an isdn line.....
  • As well as 'deep rural' users, the other place you might want to seriously consider sat. based connections is if you're in a country who does or is considering backbone level censorship - eg Singapore. Just by making it clear to the media etc that this shit is relatively easy to physically bypass may help prevent implementation in the first place.
  • DirecPC is a waste of money. Not only do you need to buy the satellite, you also need to pay the monthly fees for TWO ISPs: DirecPC, and the ISP you're using for sending data. (The satellite only receives data.)

  • Maximum PC mag had an article on this recently. The sat system works by useing your modem to upload and send information to the server, and you download from the dish, so your fast connection is downstream only. Also, i'm pretty sure that this was slower then DSL or cable modems, and it definitly did cost more. In case anyone is thinking about cable, a freind of mine had Linux running on his computer on cable from @home. I dont think they gave any support, but it is possible.
  • It's not as bad as you make it sound... I have direcpc at home and am very happy with it. I'm able to download 60-80 megs in one sitting at 400k before getting FAP'ed[1]. I've even had times where it has burst up to 600k during a download.

    [1]Being FAP'ed refers to DirecPC using their Fair Access Policy as reasoning for throttling your bandwidth once you've downloaded a certain amount in a timeframe which they won't specify. More info on FAP can be found by searching alt.satellite.direcpc with deja and looking for FAP.

    Shayne

  • The ISP I used to work for in the UK ran/runs a satellite service ( up to 2Mb down, either modem or ISDN up ), and I thought about getting a dish installed at home. The main problem seemed to be drivers for either Linux or FreeBSD ( I didn't fancy an NT router ), in the end we discovered some beta drivers for an Adaptec board ( very well hidden away on their ftp site ). This was some time ago, so I don't know if they're supported now, or even if they dropped the whole idea.

    The service as a whole had some problems.. when it worked properly it was beautiful for downloads, but when it didn't work ( about 50% of the time, seemingly ) it was a nightmare. Interestingly the box we had connected to the uplink ran a really hideously cut down version of Linux.

  • In South Africa, there's an ISP called InfoSat that uses a Linux box as a router for LAN setups of their satellite feed. A single satellite card for incoming traffic into the Linux box, distributed on a LAN from there. Check them out on www.infosat.co.za [infosat.co.za]. Maybe they can help out with info on how they did it.
  • There are a handful of providers offering wireless internet access to home and business users. I'm one of them. You can usually get speeds in the 500kbps - 2mbps range on a wireless package, both upstream/downstream.. The only current disadvantage is that the setup cost is usually rather high, as wireless network cards are a bit pricey, and a tower is sometimes required, depending on the situation. I DO know that the linux kernel has support for the wireless card in it. You might want to call some local ISP's and ask if they offer wireless access. If they say "duh, whats that" - have them give us a call. :)

  • I'm sorry I gave that impression, as we have both kinds of access available.

    For the cable modem users, there's the @Home network, through Rogers [home.com] and Shaw [home.com] (depending on who services your area, of course).
    For the folks who prefer Telco based, Bell (and now other resellers) is offering what they call Sympatico High Speed Edition [sympatico.ca], and it's ADSL implemented with the Nortel 1-meg Modem [nortelnetworks.com] technology, and PPPoE.

    I've tried to get both installed, and the @Home installation was pathetic, but I have no respect at all for Rogers anyway, as their TV reception is shit, with frequent snow on channels, and horrible customer service. Bell's tech support is equally bad, with extra long waits on hold for tech support, and flakey PPPoE implementation, but I at least got that on installed in my apartment.

    You're right about the wireless being a great solution for Rural Ontario (I've been looking into LookTV for my folks, who live in the boonies and right now only get antenna stuff), but LookTV isn't even out there yet, for the most part. They started out as an alternate to cable in an urban setting, not an alternate to antenna in a rural setting, so they're taking a while to get everywhere in S.Ont. Their high speed net access will roll out just as slowly to the rural areas too. That's the only drawback I can see with them, though. I've only ever heard raves about them.

    I hope this makes the S.Ont situation a little more clear. I'm not sure about Satellite PC options, but I believe that the only 2 "legal" satellite providers are ExpressVU and StarChoice, and I don't think they offer Internet access yet.


    This is my .sig. It isn't very big.
  • As far as i know, you might do a great deal better by getting one of the more "main stream" high speed connections out there, ala DSL, ISDN and the like. From my work at an ISP I have formed the opinion that, while you're going to get insane bandwidth, the state of the art in satelite tech won't provide this cheap.

    While you get the high speed downstream, you still have a REALLY slow upstream via a modem connection and will probably want to ditch that for something faster in the future.

    For my money, i'd just get a DSL, ISDN or Cable connection and wait a year or two for the cost of indecently fast connections to get cheaper. You might also look into a T1 frame relay if money isn't an object.

    -FluX
  • yah, you're right. ISDN is for those people who can't get DSL or cable. it sucks ass but i think you'll get slightly more bang for your buck than satelite. i don't know. perhaps ISDN was just a poor example.

    -FluX
  • yah, but why are you telling us this? If your only option is Satelite then this whole conversation is a moot point. I'm talking about people who have a choice but opt for wireless. i think that's a bad decision - as there are many other options that are slightly more, um, robust.

    Just make sure if you ever get DSL not to get a connection behind a firewall. the ISP i used to work for said it was for security but we all knew why they had ports 23 and 80 blocked! hehe.
  • Last I read their statement is that they don't support it and have no plans to support it.
  • I'm a user of Look in Hamilton (largest city outside of Toronto in the area). Although the internet is not available I just want to vouch for their phone support and installation techs. They've been very prompt, open and helpful. It puts most cable providers to shame. Not that it's a hard thing to do. Anyway, the television service is excellent. I'd suggest it to anyone and if a wireless two-way broadband solution comes available, well that'd rock. I moved out of the cable modem provider area and can't get a straigh answer about dsl so this would be a perfect solution.
  • >For my money, i'd just get a DSL, ISDN or Cable connection

    Agreed, cable and DSL are good ways to get that connection, but ISDN?? pricewise, it is absolutely ridiculous.

  • I recently read about a company that plans just this.isky.com [isky.com] However they do not have a satelitte in orbit yet, I tink the web page said something like Q1 2001.
  • South africa is one of the developing countries with a monopoly on telecommunication services. Our only fix line telephone service provider has no intention of providing services like cable modem or DSL even though the technology here is available (AT&T has a 30% equity stake). About 2 years ago the first satelite internet devices became available. It uses the same dish you use for your satelite tv and for the home user there is a pci card and software using windows. For the corporate user there is a linux box with a proxy server. Download speeds are at about 2mb a second with upload speeds going through the landline service provider at 33kbps. Cost is about $50 a month.
  • ...unfortunately, where I live, neither is available. Not even cable *TV*. :-/

    I was thinking about some kind of satellite service, but that route doesn't sound very promising.

    Guess I'm still dialing up for a while. :-(

    Maybe Cisco's wireless thing will be my salvation...

    New XFMail home page [slappy.org]

  • A friend of mine had gotten DirecPC a while back, and it was very disappointing. Sure, it was a bit fast on the downstream, but you still need a modem connection to a traditional ISP. (Therefore, uploading goes at 56K Max, and you still tie up a phone line.)

    I would definitely recommend cable. It's cheaper, more reliable, easier to set up, and Linux friendly. (At least, mine was. I just did dhcpcd eth1, and it was hot.)

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • suggest DirectPC to anyone. A friend of mine decided to get it since he was already getting DirectTV and could't get cable access. First of all you're paying for two ISPs, the upstream provider and then DirectPC's downstream service. Not only are you paying out the bum for the service but you are also charged for bandwidth usage in the same fashion as ISDN. He also had serious trouble gaming since his ping was always >800ms. I don't recall if he ever got it working on his Linux box because of the funky network setup (him and I aren't gurus). I have a similar problem with my cable modem, I use my modem for upstream traffic and the cable for downstream. I had trouble configuring Linux to work right with it so I left it on my Windows machine. The service is a little Windows centric in my opinion because they require you to use two different network protocols at the same time which Macs can't do without third party software and it takes some wrestling (for me at least) to do it with Linux. Thats just my experience I could be wrong.
  • The service I have seen advestised in the UK and Ireland connects to what I believe are call the Hotbird Satellites. The cards that come with this service use the small "horn" at the centre of your dish. This requires power and must be drawn from the actual card supplied. In windows you have to click a button to power up the dish from your satellite card. It wasnt a box that sat between a NIC and your dish but actually a dedicated card. Unless someones written a driver then I'm afraid these satellite services won't be much use under linux
  • Way back in the olden days ('94ish), we used to
    have a satellite system setup to receive
    our Fidonet mail (remember Fidonet?)

    We had one guy who had a dish on his roof receive the entire feed (wow!) and then distribute it to the rest of us using regular landlines. Pennsylvania Online (www.paonline.com) used to send him the feed for ~$30/month via satellite. Our whole net group chipped in about $10/each per year and that bought us access to all the feeds we could possibly want.

    I remember how AMAZING our local net was (1:2630) because we could get the Fido echoes quicker than anyone else in the area.

    Thanks, Jeff. :) I still remember...
  • With our Open Source (GPL) drivers for the Siemens Satellite Receiver Card you can access Europe Online (EON). Should be possible to access other Providers as well.

    See Linuxtv [linuxtv.org] for the drivers and more information about the PCI card

  • Before y'all get your hopes up, Speedchoice is only available in two metro areas: Detroit and Phoenix, but I really liked the technology as well as the performance.

    The idea is the same as DirectPC. Your downstream connection is 'radio wave' (I hesitate to use the term 'microwave', 'cuz I'm not sure if it was...). Your upstream connection is a WAN line (mine was an analog modem (28.8, I think). You're interface to all the equipment (analog modem, radio modem, antenna) is a 10baseT drop.

    The 'radio modem' controls the whole works. It dials the analog modem when needed, and routes all your packets for you (up and down). There is Windows software that you can use to control the modem (no auto-dial, Am I connected?, that type of stuff).

    The most impressive part was the speed. The best I ever got on an FTP download was 160Kb/s. As a matter of fact, Speedchoice was stating the following 'estimated' throughputs:

    analog Modem up = 1Mb down
    dual ISDN up = 4-5Mb down
    T1 up = 10Mb down

    The analog up was only $49.99/month unlimited access (rented equipment), and a $99 install.

    So, why, you may ask, did I get rid of it? Well, it is a line-of-sight technology, and when they installed it, the line-of-sight was through a hole in some trees. Well, appearently, after a big storm blew through, that hole was gone... :-( And so was my service. It's been a struggle to get a high-speed access since.

    But, if you're in Detroit or Phoenix, I highly recommend it! You won't be hosting a web site, but it ROCKS! for surfing!
  • First off, if you are thinking of going with DirecPC ... don't. Speaking as a *VERY* former customer of DirecPC/TV, I can tell you that: 1) The customer service is bottom of the line, horrible, we-won't-help-you-because-you-have-no-alternative style. 2) Their new pricing plans are a joke. 200 hours for 50 bucks a month. 200 hours? get real. 3) This is a biggie - They have what is called a FAP. Fair Access Policy. This means that if you download large quantities of data, your bandwidth is throttled to less than dial-up modem speeds. I went 'round and 'round with them for months over this travesty. After some light testing, after you download ~ 90 - 180MB at full speed, it throttles you back for an indeterminate amount of time. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the point of having a high bandwidth connection to download large quantities of data really fast? This totally negates any reasonable use you might use this for. 4) The DirecPC software is WINDOWS only. They have stated, time and again, they have no plans on developing for another platform. 5) Latency is horrid. This is to be expected, and I do not fault them for this, due to the limits of technology, but none the less, the latency is way to much to be playing time senstive games (Quake, etc...) 6) The ISA/PCI 'sattelite modems' get HOT ... REAL hot. They will increase your case temperature dramatically. They are indeed Ethernet cards with a coax interface. They even show up in your network config in windows as a network card. 7) Your return path is via modem... so best upload speeds are 33.6kb/set. Not server material in any way, shape or form. Forget ratio MP3 sites :) On the plus side, you get a dedicated IP. If you are downloading small files in small squirts, the speed is nice, but not worth the price. Did I mention that customer service is abysmal? I have cancled my DireccPC account and am using a noisy noisy, slow dial-up connection. But I feel better about myself that I am not supporting that company... between the FAP and thier new pricing plans, they are amoung the worst deal you could possibly get. Even if you had unlimited usage (Like I had, as I signed up before they changed the pricing plans), the FAP limits your usage anyway, making it functionally useless. One thing that I do miss is the news push service. W/O being online, I was able to get the newsgroups I wanted automatically, and connect to a news server on my local LAN. That was very handy, without a doubt. But that is the only thing I miss.
  • I first had this service 4 years ago. Living in a city with no high speed access of any type. At first the service was great, I could download at speeds close to 300Kps. It was not good for anything that required a low latency, I.E. games, telnet. But eventually they got greedy like every company. Hughes implemented the FAP (Fair Access Policy). This basically restricted download speeds after a certain amount of time or amount downloaded. That was the problem that they never explained what they were basing there rules on. It would just slow down to modem speed after a while. I could download 3 gig a month no problem before the FAP but after I could never download anything over 30 meg. It would slow down the download and then never resume the max speed. It was the most frustrating thing ever. There tech support is the worst, responding to every problem with "reload the software". I would not recommend it to anyone except for the newsgroups software. They have a newsgroups feed streaming 24/7, and you don't have to be online to get it. Just setup your win9x box and it will capture the groups and save it. Then you can connect to your local box with a news reader and browse the groups all off-line. That was a cool feature, but not work the other headaches.....

    Your results may vary......
  • Here's the skinny... Don't mess with the current generation of satellite systems that deliver internet service. DirecPc is a nightmare. Installers fumble with windows installs of the stock software. Hughes, the DPC manufacturer has very little knowledgable tech support concerning the matter. Aside from that, the price is outrageous considering the return. Asyncronus Cable modems are better. I have worked for one of the hughes authorized installers of this for the last five years and have seen the nightmares from simple customer problems all the way to corporate deployments. Several other systems are out that deliver a much better product on the high end. There is a system from Tachyon.net that delivers from low 100kbs all the way to I believe 2mbs in ATM with a send via satellite limited to around 300kbs. I heard one of their executives at a conference in july and they sound very promising to the high end consumer. Another company to check into is Harmonic Data Systems. They provide a satellite based software that is specifically for Linux or FreeBSD. Again more of a high end solution. Hughes is going to, in the next duration, release what they call personal VSAT which should be a contender with the higher end satellite delivery internet providers. Probably won't support Linux though unless hughes sees it as profitable. Take this as you will, but DPC is a dead technology and there's much better on the horizon.

  • Currently, it's being tested in Toronto, but they expect it to roll out through southern Ontario ASAP. LookTV is a Cable/Satellite replacement (http://www.look.ca/ [www.look.ca]), that currently offers Antenna download, but modem upload, same as the Satellite companies. They are trying to get approval from the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Commission, I believe) to allow Antenna uploading. I spoke to one of the techs, and they have permission to perform tests, and they are doing that now (wouldn't tell me where).

    LookTV is Microwave based, so you need unobstructed line-of-site to the broadcast tower (it can be minorly ubstructed with trees, but not with buildings), and they don't have full covereage everywhere, but this may be a viable option too, at least for folks in Toronto. Also, if you live in an apartment building, you have to fax them a signed permission form from your owner (that's why I don't have it yet. 8-( ). Perhaps if you look for similar things in your area, it may soon ease your modem woes.

    HTH.
    This is my .sig. It isn't very big.
  • I have DirecPC, and I've been so unhappy with it I could scream. A "friend" sold me his dish (to get rid of it I'm sure) and I even got to keep his "old" account ($19.95 for 200K/s 6pm-6am unlimited). It has never really worked at all. From about 3pm until 12 midnight, don't even think of using it, their network is apparently so overtaxed, you don't even get MODEM speeds out of it, usually around 1 AM it clears up, but then... FAP kicks in, 2 or 3 MP3s or one Microsoft Windows 98 Update later and you're throttled, a bit more, and you get throttled again, so basically you're good for roughly, 30 megs a day and that's that, else you get FAPped. I GLADLY cancelled my account to get on $59 a month cable modem, it's expensive but at least I can DOWNLOAD at a reasonable rate now (the cable is one way just like DirecPC is, but 2 way cable is just days away now). My advice, FORGET DIRECPC, maybe some of the other Internet over satellite companies don't suck, but believe me, you will be sorely disappointed in DirecPC. Grimster
  • If you can stand to wait until 2004, a copany called TeleDesic will be providing high speed, 2 way satellite Inet access at an affordable price. They are using a network of low earth orbitting (LEO) satellites that they say will serve several simulatenous users, also giving speeds of up to 64mbit. Anyway, check out their website, www.teledesic.com [teledesic.com]
  • I have also been looking for a satelite based internet service for my Linux machine so my small network can get better than modem speeds. So far what everone has said is true. There is one company that I have talked to that will have linux drivers by the end of this month (real soon). Goto http://www.axxess.net/. They also mentioned that they are currently planning to have two-way satellite service by the end of the year. That sounds consistant with rumers from around the net that two-way satellite technology is currently in development.

  • You will need a linux compatible receiver card (Score:3)

    by Eg0r ( 704 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @02:50AM (#1329258)
    Last time I checked, broadlogic [broadlogic.com] supports linux (that is at the hardware level, they're not ISP) in their PCI receiver cards [broadlogic.com]. Not only that, but they even use linux [broadlogic.com] in some of their stand alone receivers. Cool hey?

    So maybe they're the people to ask and the website to check first. My guess is that because you have the satellite receiver inside your computer, you should get a pretty high transfer rate to the HD or memory or whatever talks to the bus.

    Whether such a data bandwidth is already available on some sats and/or from ISPs is another question.

    ---

  • Linux is not an option for most of these (Score:3)

    by arivanov ( 12034 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @01:21AM (#1329259) Homepage
    Linux is not an option for most of these.

    The reason is that especially the new kernels are quite stubborned on the topic of receive only interfaces. You do have problems making those work and most vendors do not bother.

    Amidst the few noteable exemptions are satellite news feeds and stuff but you hardly need such a staellite service. The only reason these use linux is that it is a platform of choice for combining encryption (these services cost money), hardware access and a working news server.

  • direcpc (Score:3)

    by danipell ( 30186 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @04:17AM (#1329260) Homepage
    Hello. We have been using Direcpc for about three years in isolated locations across Canada. To use Linux with direcpc we use a product called Helius. http://www.helius.com , This allows other computers on the network to access the internet. Then we use the NAT software on the linux software. We have taken the Helius software and the Linux OS and created an embedded version for deployment in the field http://www.knet.on.ca/knetrouter .
    I imagine that someone out there is looking at making an open source driver for the direcpc card. One of the uses of the direcpc we are experimenting with is in the use of remote kiosks. Because in Canada we use Express Vu we can set it up anywhere that there is a TV dish. The Kiosk mode would get material on a regular basis. Museums, catalogues, training videos etc. Lots of uses. . Now I just need to take sleep and personal time out of my life to work on these ideas..

  • Not Quite Yet... (Score:3)

    by grantdh ( 72401 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @02:01AM (#1329261) Homepage Journal
    We've been doing a spot of research into good connections for an "out back/bush" project we're working on. Here in Australia, the ISP service provided by BigPond (the ones we all love to hate :) have a satellite downlink with an ISP return feed.

    Bigpond supplies a relatively good/cheap "rural" service that works all around the country (if you can get the phone lines to where you are). Given the quality & distance of country lines, you're lucky to get 28.8 or 33.6 - many consider 14.4 wonderful :)

    Thus, satellite could be pretty good for bringing down standard surfing, news feeds, etc. I too am concerned about emails being broadcast to anyone looking at the satellite (just what encryption do they use again? :) Additionally, the lag due to Earth->GEO->Earth routing makes it pretty much a consumption operation. As has been noted, gaming would suck :)

    Other issues are, as noted, getting the things working on Linux. Not many drivers/etc for these systems, unfortunately.

    If you're in the middle of nowhere and 14.4 in both directions is killing you then yes, satellite is a good idea. If you're in an urban or regional center area, get ISDN/DSL/Cable and get a real connection.

    Personally, I'm hanging for good, competitive LEO systems like Teledesic and/or Iridium. Mmmmmm - solar powered laptop, satellite 128kbps link, total planetary coverage - "People who don't need people are the happiest people!" :)

  • There are others... (Score:3)

    by madprophet ( 121449 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @03:39AM (#1329262) Homepage
    I do a lot of work with Ultimate Satellite Internet [ultisat.net], & I think the service rocks for the area I live in. They say that the max download is around 400K /sec but I run at a normal rate of aound 700K /sec with a max jump of 1.25 MB /sec when I was pulling from a site that was near the landline connection at the other end of the dish.

    Ultimate Satellite Internet [ultisat.net] gets its dishes from Harmonic Data Systems & they have what is called an E-1 Router, and it runs Linux. The drivers are there, but due to the large difference in the various Linux Distros, they do not want to support it until there is a larger demand.

    I just thought I would leave that opinion.

  • Direct PC (Score:3)

    by vagablonde ( 145417 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @03:16AM (#1329263)
    I live in Wisconsin and whenever we get heavy snowfall or thunderstorms, the clouds in the sky block the satellite signal.

    The military spy satellites do not work well in bad weather either.

    So while you may get exceptional sped and everything from satellite, you cannot stop mother nature from blocking your feeds from time to time.

  • making DirecPC work with Linux (Score:3)

    by romkey ( 145460 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @05:08AM (#1329264) Homepage
    I was able to get DirecPC [direcpc.com] to work with Linux. Unfortunately, I had to pay to license some drivers from Helius [helius.com], but they're the only place I know of to get DirecPC drivers. Their code works with the ISA and PCI cards.

    I was able to set up IP masquerading so that other machines could get high-speed downloads, too.

    Some caveats -

    1. you still need some kind of regular ISP for your outgoing packets
    2. I had to "commission" my DirecPC card under Windows, then take the config file this generated and move it to Linux.
    3. Hughes (who operate DirecPC) are infamous for their FAP (Fair Access Policy) under which they throttle you down to regular modem speeds if they decide you've transfered too much in too little time. In the past they haven't published how much is too much, so it was difficult to know when you were about to get into trouble. A recent class action suit against them might have changed that.
    4. Until recently, Helius didn't even have 2.2 kernel support, though they seem to now (2.2.5).
    5. Helius has a 30 day eval you can download for free.
    6. Helius' licensing policy restricted the number of connections that you could have at once (ie: more connections == more money). This only worked eratically with me, I was usually able to do more simultaneous connections through ipmasq.

  • Satellite Internet (Score:4)

    by pb ( 1020 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @01:31AM (#1329265)
    Here's a site in Australia that has some more detailed information [iweb.net.au]. Everything the Anonymous Coward first poster said sounds pretty accurate (!).

    The card they're using here is the Telsat Turbo, from SatNet. It's a PCI card, and it says in their FAQ that they're working on drivers for MacOS and Linux. It should already work under Windows NT. And yeah, you need a modem too.
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].

  • Push feeds (Score:4)

    by slim ( 1652 ) <john@@@hartnup...net> on Friday January 28, 2000 @01:44AM (#1329266) Homepage
    The original poster might not care, but I imagine the average reader will. These providers run push services, whereby email and news get broadcast, and your computer receiveds it without the upstream modem connection being needed.


    Two things worry me about this: one is that I don't know the protocol, and whether it is open (and therefore supportable in Linux). The second is that I'm concerned that mail might be being broadcast from a sattelite in plaintext.


    I think I'll investigate these things now, and follow myself up if I unearth anything...
    --

  • *sigh* (Score:4)

    by revnight ( 8980 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @02:15AM (#1329267)
    anyone considering using DirecPC should probably read the following article.


    http://www.hamradio-online.com/1999/nov/direcpc2 .html

  • Not a good option (Score:4)

    by mauddib~ ( 126018 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @01:32AM (#1329268) Homepage
    Like said above because you'll need an ordinary modem connection for upload, it won't push the telephone costs. And if you want a satelite uplink it will cost you money, a huge lot of money.

    We've been asking for such an option for an outdoor lan-party here in Europe, the total cost of rent for one year would be around 400,000 dollars (800,000 dutch guilders). Besides, the ISP which with you're connecting (here in West-Europe) is mostly relying on cached stuff. As soon as you try to obtain stuff which is not cached (newsfeed, slashdot, freshmeat etc.), the connection is very slow.

    Therefor, I think a satelite link has too much disadvantages to be ever cost-effective in the near future, however I don't know how the situation in the States is.


  • Please check out alt.satellite.direcpc [alt.satellite.direcpc] before making any purchase decisions. There is a whole lot of bad mojo associated with this outfit, and most people never receive the advertised performance.

    Buyer Beware.

  • Direc PC Limits Total Download Per User - D'Oh! (Score:5)

    by cybrpnk ( 94636 ) on Friday January 28, 2000 @02:59AM (#1329270)
    I had DirecPC for a while and bailed out of it. In addition to the disadvantages I see others listing here, they had what they called a "Fair Use" policy that choked down your personal data flow per day once you hit a certain limit - around 1 or 2 MP3 files worth, roughly. Sure, you get 400 Kbs, but only for the fraction of a second required to download a static web page. Sustained high speed downloads? Forget it.

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