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Linux Port for N64? 112

Posted by emmett from the mario-vs-tux dept.
Mr. Roboto writes "The tales of a guy trying to port Linux to his N-64. This page has source code and technical data, which should make lots of you happy." Not really, now I have to go out and buy one.
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Linux Port for N64? More

Linux Port for N64?

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  • nancy kerrigan... (Score:3)

    by brianna ( 85192 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @09:59PM (#1359762)
    when i read this i just heard that videotape of nancy kerrigan in my head (the one right after tonya's boyfriend whacked her), "whhhhyyyyyyy!!!??"

  • eh? I don't get it. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Is there a keyboard for the N64? I know there was a mouse attachment for the Super Nintendo.
  • Damn, with Linux on a N64, I might actually get one. Then it would at least be useful!

    I want Linux on a Playstation.

    "Playstation Linux. Garunteed to play all your games, let you pause and check your email, and serve your scores all while being more secure than the leading M$ box and without loosing a single frame!" ;-)

    --MD
  • but what was he planning on using it for? The standard N64 has a 90mhz processor and decent video hardware. This is severely underpowered as is, as playing Goldeneye or Mario Kart shows when too much stuff starts happening at once (which isn't much, I might add). Now imagine trying to play a game with 3D hardware under Linux, which is naturally slower at rendering, and this is starting to get disgusting. He could use it for something else, you say? Dewd, it's a game console.
  • Why do you want a keyboard for the N64, if it interfaces with the PC you don't need this. That being said can you imagine a N64 as a controller for your Linux box. The N64 controller is one of the best and most egonamic controller around. I would love to play Q3A with that.

    Nate Custer.
  • Imagine writing an ERP system for the Nintendo, this is cool stuff. So let's do a PostGresSQL DB on the Nintendo, it rocks! :)

  • Date (Score:4)

    by Darchmare ( 5387 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @10:15PM (#1359772)
    I hate to say this, but this is very very old. As in, May of '98.

    "Last Updated: 5.30.98"

    I'm assuming he hasn't gotten very far. Oh well.

    - Jeff A. Campbell
    - VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])

  • Last updated . . . (Score:3)

    by Goonie ( 8651 ) <.robert.merkel. .at. .benambra.org.> on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @10:17PM (#1359773) Homepage
    18 months ago. Sounds like yet another "too hard basket" jobby.

    The Dreamcast is probably a more interesting target for a Linux port. If it can run WinCE it should have room for Linux. You might even run Emacs on it (shudder. . .)

  • It's been a year and a half since any of these pages have been updated, and when they were left in the state they are now, the guy hadn't figured out much at a software level at all; this project looks much more like a hardware hack, and an old one at that.

    It is neat that Linux is the type of OS that can be easily ported to lots of different platforms, and is rather well suited for embedded applications (easy to pull out stuff you don't need, among other things). But it doesn't look like anyone is actually working on Linux on the N64, which is kind of pointless except as an academic exercise (which is what this project apparently was when it was alive).

    IMHO it's not worth getting worked up about. Personally, I think Palm is a much spiffier target...

  • Can you say Beowulf cluster? At $60 a pop you could be doing some cool stuff, at a very cheap price.

    Besides the point isn't the use of it, but that it is being done. Whatever happened to using technology for the fun of it? That being said, if this could be applied to say an X-Box (when if comes out) 500 MHz RISC that for $300 kick ass.

    Nate Custer

  • Buzzword Compliance Factor (Score:3)

    by Yardley ( 135408 ) on Tuesday January 18, 2000 @10:19PM (#1359776) Homepage
    Ray, his professor, wanted to know "whether porting Linux to the N64 was feasible."

    The author of the page determined it was not (or that he does not have enough time to do it), so instead he sets a simpler goal for himself:

    My end goal is to develop a cable and interface a PC and the N64. For example, I want to have the N64 be able to browse a HD, or a PC issue simple commands, such as changing the color on the monitor.

    I really think the lead-in for this article is misleading. He's not porting Linux to his N64.
  • I'm asking "why a computer"

    It'd be a lot funner to use it standalone (those N64 chip's ought to be pretty powerful suckers!).

    I say a harddrive to the cartridge port and a keyboard hack as a controller. It's possible.

    And imagine running Quake on this :)

    Anyhow, I'm saying that it'd be cooler (but more difficult) to make it computer-independent.

    The machine is probably really power efficient as well.

    Oh, and please, something must be done about AC's.
  • I would have to question Linux on any gaming console. I want the gaming console running something that I don't know the name of, and don't care to, because it means it's so proprietary, it will work wonders with the proprietary hardware it runs on. And that means better peformance on what it was ment to do, and that is play games. This is exactly why the Dreamcast can run WinCE, but dosen't for any of the games out there today.

    This is also why I would never buy the rumored X-Box. I don't want a console running the same OS that other devices use.
  • Emulators are semi-functional are available for both the Saturn and PlayStation. Much of the work which has been done is more for specific games, than a general emulator, such as the successful emulation of Resident Evil. The PlayStation and Saturn's power are difficult to capture, and are going to take incredibly efficient code to work well. The N64 will prove to be even more challenging, especially with the mystery of the RCP and its amazing power for 3D. An emulator for the N64 is out, but it only emulates opcodes. It's an amazing piece of code in the sheer numbers of hours represented in work, but game emulation has a long way to go before its functional.

    Man, I've seen UltraHLE play N64 games 6 months ago, in much higher res too. If this guy is so into N64, why hasn't he heard of it? I know UHLE's been pulled, but it made HUGE waves, and it's still not hard to find on the net. Is this page insanely old or something?
    And is he planning on optimizing the kernel for N64 hardware, or does he really think that 'off-the-shelf' OSS can really stand up to super-optimized Nintendo/SGI code? Where's the gain? To check email on yer console? Last I checked, my PC does that just fine.

  • I think that he was just trying to get this port going. With a PC-N64 interface readily available, the port would go much smoother (especially if he could get HD access going.) He also had other parts of the project going - an emulator and he commented on the feasability of getting a keyboard working.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. A Linux port to N64 would take a lot of effort.


    -*-*-*-
    I'm a little segfault short and stout
    this is my handle, this is my spout!
  • i was thinking about porting linux to n64 awhile back. too much hardware hacking for me. anyway if you like hacking around with N64 platform, Dextrose.com [dextrose.com] is THE site...
  • i dont mind, as long as we get to see Linus Kart 64. im imagining donkey kong with bill's head

  • Despite the fact that this page is apparently over a year old, it's interesting to put into perspective. PSX2, Dolphin and Dreamcast are designed with the internet at least partially in mind.

    If you could stick a small hard drive (~1GB) onto one of these things, Linux would be a GREAT operating system for internet functions independant of games. It would allow for a degree of user customization, but by default include common internet tools, and maybe a special version of X. Why not?

    "You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're dreaming or awake?"

  • Oh, my fault, apparently the page is 18 months old... Why was this posted on /.?
  • Thats strange that you say that... I find the N64 controller kind of annoying. It may feel okay, but Im always wondering where to put my hand, seeing as I don't have three hands and there are three handles. Most games have you put your left hand in the center, which doesn't sound too ergonomic to me. I really prefer the Dreamcast II controller. I know there are different models but I dont know what to call it. All I know is that there were two handles, and with the left hand you had access to both the joystick and movement pad, as well as triggers under both handles. Seems like a rip off and an improvement of the N64 controller if you ask me.
  • What do you expect? At this hour of the night they are so desperate for news they will post anything.

    Nate Custer
  • Actually it would seem to me that a good, lightweight OS (like Linux can be) would lend itself well to providing an interface layer that would allow developers to focus on game engine in more general terms rather than things like how the particular graphics hardware, hence allowing development of <insert game here> for the platform of your choice (gimme mah PSX, but you can have your N64 or Dreamcast).

    (Platform-independence - it's not just for "real" computers anymore!)

  • those N64 chip's ought to be pretty powerful suckers
    Those 'suckers' are 5 freakin years old. Sure, they get the job done, but an Athlon 600 would smoke it 100 times before you could blink.

    And imagine running Quake on this :)
    uhh, you can. It's called Quake64. And it ain't all that.

    The machine is probably really power efficient as well.
    Get a laptop.

    My point is that it's a console. Consoles are keen and all, but in terms of hardware power, they're well behind the tech curve. Granted that's by design.
    It may be interesting to get some N64's running in some distributed mode, but how many $100 consoles would you need when you can pick up a TNT2 for $150? Oh well, just my $0.02.

  • Well, it seems like this site is dead so it's pretty much a moot point. But there are already ports of Linux that work just fine on the Mips R4300, and 4 mb of SDRAM is plenty to get up and running. It's not that this would be a particulary useful thing to do, but it would be fun.

    I guess it could be a real kick if you ported Linux to it, along with a version of SVGAlib that could take advantage of some of the hardware, then got MAME up and running on the whole beast.

    Right. But until then I'll play MAME on my Athlon and leave the R4300s at work :)

  • Re:eh? I don't get it. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    as an offtopic side note.. they have a console to pc plug thing for plugging in Playstation or N64 controls into your computer. There are also schematics available on the web for those do-it-yourselfers.
  • I'm pretty sure that Ts'o's PRNG code doesn't repeat like that. I know you're a troll, but come on, you must be really stupid if you can't figure out how to use /dev/urandom. I'll give you a hint: it doesn't look like that!

    --

  • that was funny, someone moderate this up, like a lot.

    damn it's late
  • Maybe I am not remebering it right, but isn't one of the advatages of OSS that you work on whatever you want? If he finds it fun he should do it.

    That being said, assuming he is a good programer, yes you are right.

    Nate Custer

  • There's already a port of NetBSD to the Super-H SH3 CPU, closely related to the SH4 in the Dreamcast (and they're currently working on SH4 support). Take a look here [netbsd.org].

  • I have not had enough experience with the Dreamcast to comment on it. However, I can explain a bit about why I like the N64 controller so much. You hit on, IMHO, the best feature in your complaints. The three legged controller allows the user to customize his own interface a lot more than it contemporaries (i.e. the PS and Saturn). For example in Quake you could have one hand on the joystick and the other on the buttons, or I could have the joystick control my movement, and my pad control my aiming and have much more control.

    In any case the pad adapts to me, not me to the pad. That is how UI ought to be.

    Nate Custer
  • You don't need an HDD, or even a keyboard, to run Linux on a games console. What you *do* need is a small readonly filesystem on whatever the machine's native medium is, and some sort of access to a network (where there could be a telnet client, and an NFS mountable /usr, /var and /home.

    The Dreamcast is ideal for this of course, because it has a modem already (not as ideal as Ethernet, but workable).
    --
  • Damn, that actually is pretty funny.... I wonder where they got a picture of Bill Gates reading Slashdot, though.... the picture looks too good to be a fake (unlike the pictures of, say, Mr. T throwing CmdrTaco across the room :-)

    "Software is like sex- the best is for free"
    -Linus Torvalds
  • This has been on my projects list for years...

    What has happened:
    1) Gcc makes code for the beast
    2) its well documented. (and it runs a mips CPU)
    3) its got a damn fast coprocessor (that no one is using in any game)
    4) bung [bung.com.hk] makes a device that lets you copy code to its "rom" image. A guy in .ru has a design to roll your own roms.
    5) www.dextrose.com [dextrose.com] exists

    What needs to happen:
    1) someone needs to build a decent memory card for the silly thing. It uses rambus. hint take a Pelican expansion pack (it uses 2 2mb devices) and replace its rdram with ones out of Nintendos rampack and fix the heat problem)
    2) a decent HOWTO to build gcc for this thing.
    3) undo the nintendo lawsuit against Bung who makes a device to run your own code on the box.
    4) write a network driver to talk over the controller ports
    5) someone with more time and a bit of interest
    should check out a simple page with some notes about coding on the N64 [abnormal.com]

    Keep in mind that at upto 200m instructions per sec the thing isn't a slow box for its price.

    Think the B-word and a room full of N64's...

  • Having read through the stuff that this guy has figured out it looks like there is way too much junk in there.

    The cartridge interface is pretty much entirely hooked up to the RCP. Who knows what all is in that chip... If it were me I would put a small amount of ROM in there with an unmodifiable boot monitor that checked the validity of the cartridge. I would also have a nasty bus interface to the cartridge to make it a bit tougher on Mr Joe Hacker.

    It's a shame that they didn't put the bus of the VR4300i on the cartridge slot with ~CSBOOT(or whatever that is in MIPS-speak)... Then you'd just need to hookup a bit of FLASH to run the OS of your choice. A number of OpenSource OSs would run on an N64: RTEMS, eCos and I guess Linux. Linux would be the least favoured option. This is because 4MB is not a heck of a lot for a 64bit MIPS machine running bloatware (compared to RTEMS or eCos) like Linux.

    Fo more info on RTEMS see http://www.rtems.com/
    For more info on eCos see http://sourceware.cygnus.com/
  • The advantage of coding for consoles is that the platform is fixed, so that you can and should optimize your game for the platform - with the result that console games generally run much better on consoles than on equivalent PC hardware.
  • Do they have a higher voltage than, say, my Powerbook G3 or PowerTower Pro?

    If the people here can poke around in their own boxen without worry, what's the problem with a video game console (assuming it's not plugged in)?


    - Jeff A. Campbell
    - VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
  • ... but the N64 doesn't feature enough RAM to do anything usefull with Linux on it.

    You can compile stuff with a GCC cross-compiler with a medium effort, but adapting a whole kernel seems like a waste of time anyway, since you probably wouldn't need all the advanced features it provides such as memory protection, thread and process management, etc...

    For your info, the basic N64 features 4MB of RAM, and that's being used for everything, from video memory to sound buffer, to CPU memory. The architecture is great that's for sure (thanks to sgi!), but it's a very basic device apart from that.



  • Please excuse me, but I just don't get it.

    What is the _real_ point of having linux on N64, Playstation, or a plain toaster?

    Is "I do it because I can" the main motivation behind all these extra-ordinary porting projects?

    I mean, Linux exists because there is a NEED for it. Just how much NEEDS there is for Linux to run on N64 or Playstation, or microwave oven or toaster?

    Sorry, I just don't get it.


  • I think the Dreamcast controllers are the worst ones ever made. Who is the retard who thought it would be a good idea to have the cable come out of the _bottom_ of the controller? It constantly hits your fingers and is just a pain in the arse all around. Why couldn't they just run it out of the top of the controller like everyone else does?

    I wish that there was a decent N64 style controller for my PC. I use the original Microsoft Sidewinder gamepad, which works well. But the original N64 controllers are my favorite. I dug out the SNES last weekend for a few games of Street Fighter II Turbo, my hand was cramping up after about 15 minutes of play with those old controllers.

    Oh, the original NES Advantage gets props from me for being an excellent controller also. Mine was pretty durable, and when I finally did break it, my local "Authorized Nintendo Repair Center" replaced the broken part for free.

    Worst controller of all time? The old NES Max controller. That thing was plain unusable, I don't know anyone who liked them. They had this wheel/directional pad combination that was incredibly touchy and impossible to control.
    ---
  • I remember a few months back reading somewhere of MAME being ported to the N64. It wasn't fully functional but had the basic set of games (pacman, galaxian, etc).

    There is also the Namco Museum which was recently released for the N64 which is true emulated versions of those games.
  • As I read all the valid questions wondering exactly how USEFUL per se a Linux port to the N64 hardware would be, and knowing the progress some N64 emulators have had, and knowing that dumps and disassemblies of N64 games abound in the geek underground these days, and knowing we all have at least 1 computing device with Linux installed already, I keep thinking to myself:

    Wouldn't it be FAR cooler for someone to port (admiteddly very legally dubiously) N64 games to Linux?

    I'd personally wet myself if I woke up one morning and saw that Mario 64 was a tarball

    Just A Thought.
  • Imagine a Beowulf cluster of N64s -- all playing Mario Cart 64! WOW! :)
    Later...
  • This link is pretty interesting, considering that it is nearly 3 years old. Anyone know who Luciano Aprilia is and what happened to his GPL source release?

  • thank you for your contribution
  • This guys homepage hasn't been update since '98 also as the N64 has no keyboard or hard drive. The guy would be better off joining forces with one of the N64 emulators & using this as a starting point for the port as keyboards & hard drives from the pc could easily be used, debugging is available & once this port is mature move it to a real N64.
  • Do you really need to know the outcome? Thought not.

    Anyway, Why in the H-e-doublehockeysticks would anyone waste their time porting Linux to the N64??!!?? It makes my head hurt just thinking about it!! Sure, N64 has great graphics, but what ya gonna do with it once you've ported Linux?? Run a network server?? Actually... that would be interesting... Yeah right. If anything, why not port Linux to Playstation? or Dreamcast? or Atari 2600 for crying out loud (I better find mine!)!? But if Mr. T WERE to port Linux to N64, then I might go out and buy one. ^_^

    The Gray Wolf

  • Whyyyners (Score:4)

    by SEE ( 7681 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @03:38AM (#1359828) Homepage
    My response to the "why port Linux" posts? How about:

    1) As a educational exercise.
    2) To develop a version of Linux suited for embedded environments based on the N64's processor.
    3) For fun.
    4) For the same reason people waste time posting redundant "why"s about 18-month-dead projects mentioned on Slashdot.
  • This is about as not new news as it gets; IX Magazine held an April Fools joke on this idea years ago.

    See: Linux for Nintendo 64. [heise.de]

    It's sufficiently near to technically feasible as to make it imaginable, but you'd really need to add a few MB of RAM and an NIC in order for this to be feasible for getting any actual work done. And it's a sufficiently tightly proprietary design as to make that unrealistic.

  • I see a pattern forming..

    ``Here's a story about this guy trying to port Linux to...''

    • a toaster
    • the Sony ``Cube'' clock radio
    • the Casio mp3 player wrist watch
    • grandpa's hearing aid
    • any damn electronic gadget

    And, immediately following...

    ``Hey, how about a Beowulf cluster of these things???''

    -pf

  • An 18 month old article that has the word ``Linux'' in it, with the context being that he's NOT going to mess with it... scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Really.

    -pf

  • Heh, I was in class with this guy. It was POCO and our Prof., Ray brought in an N64 the day before some break (mid-term?). We played with it for a couple of minutes and then cracked it open and started examining it. I can still remember coming back to my dorm and trying to convince my non-CS friends how stinking cool this class was. :)
    Anyhow, I wondered why I suddenly started getting e-mail about my 1-bit ALU project (we all linked to each other's projects). Heh, an untimely Slashdot post. Go figure. Good way to start a Wednesday...

  • This is a waste... (Score:4)

    by tzanger ( 1575 ) on Wednesday January 19, 2000 @04:06AM (#1359833) Homepage
    I wish I had the link, but I've already seen X on an N64.

    And why's this guy taking everything apart to learn? dextrose [dextrose.com] has compilers, assemblers, disassemblers and all manner of documentation on programming this fscker.

    Get yourself a Doctor V64 [bung.com.hk] or, what I use, a Z64 [z64.com] and start programming. I like the latter because it's smaller, doesn't use CDs or take up a parallel port and (upon taking it apart) is an embedded 386. The V64 is a 6809 (IIRC) machine with a lot more custom circuitry.

    My goal [mixdown.org] for it is to hook up a network card to it's internal PC/104 slot and get rid of the need for a Zip drive altogether. Boot via BOOTP, grab games from my server via TFTP. The source for the BIOS is available on the 'net and all it is ATM just OpenDOS with some custom executable to run the embedded PC <-- N64 part.

    There's no need for custom hardware. Hell a simple ROM emulator would work. There *are* tricks to doing it in hardware (they have a lock chip on each cart IIRC) but if you got one of those V64jr [bung.com.hk] units you could hack it and put a ROM emulator on that if you *really* felt you needed to. (the V64jr lets you read/write to its onboard memory with a parallel port so a ROM emulator is not necessary, but most good ROM emulators let you have breakpoints and other good things for development). From what this guy's website said, he was using custom hardware to read/write to N64 memory. Waste of time / energy / effort! Proprietary interface!

    My brother already programs for the N64 (just simple stuff but his time is limited too :-) -- All you're doing is writing a ROM image. You do *not* need to rip the thing apart to run Linux on the pig. All the info (hell you can even get detalled info / memory maps / etc on the hardware) is available from dextrose or #n64dev on efnet. All this scope tracing / etc is bullshit if you want to really program it / port Linux to it.

    Mind you now, if he was the curious sort like myself, he'd have done it just for fun. :-)
  • I would have to question Linux on any gaming console. I want the gaming console running something that I don't know the name of, and don't care to, because it means it's so proprietary, it will work wonders with the proprietary hardware it runs on.

    Actually the documentation on the N64 is quite extensive (for a proprietary system). And with all that fancy-do hardware you could write one hell of an accellerated X server. Think of it. Throw in a cart that has a 100bT port on it, plug in a keyboard (the controller interface is not too difficult to hack [mixdown.org]) and you have a cheap, fast X terminal for web browsing / gaming. Insert kiosk / cafe / whatever use here.
  • in grade 9 i took a PET computer and turned it into a clock. This kinda reminds of what this is tryin to do. Somethin thats kinda cool, but no one really has a need for a 50 pund clock. If this guy did manage it, the interface would would likely cost way more than a 486(all thats needed for linux). Hmm, I still have my PET I wonder... an AS-400 port maybe??? I could run syntax and generate 1 calculation per day.
  • I wish I had the link, but I've already seen X on an N64.

    Ahh dammit, it was an April Fool's joke. The rest of my post still applies, though. :-)

    ... it is curious... when I post my comment, I go and re-read the article to see what else I can reply to. And there, right under the link for the N64 XTerm, is my post. Talk about irony. :-)
  • And where did you get this idea? Have you even looked at the page? Is my hair on fire? Oh no! It is!

    From what I saw is he was simply going to attempt to build a link from his pc to the n64. I saw nothing about him attempting to make linux run on the n64, in fact, after *gasp* reading the article, he says it was impracticle to do it, with only 4mb of ram, no hd, no keyboard, etc. He hasn't even started to build the cable, from what I've seen.

    Dear lord, can't anyone on slashdot read? Whoever posted this story/article should get negative karma points or something (a good whack with the clue stick would suffice I reckon) - READ the articles before posting them!
  • : OS code could be put on the cartridge since it can hold 64 MEGS.

    That's 64 megaBITS, not megaBYTES. So in reality, it would be rather difficult to get the OS code stuffed into an 8MB cartridge.
    Other than the above flaw, it appeared that he knew what he was doing. How could he miss the bit/byte factor?
  • I thought ISA cards were very low mhz? So how could one keep up with a N64? Or is the low mhz just the communication with the processor? Anyone care to clarify?
  • As one of my former classmates has already commented, "I was in that class", and while it may be a dead project now and an uncompleted one in general, it was still pretty interesting, and a pretty cool thing to do for credit in a college course.

    You can read about some of the other neat stuff that was done (or at least started) in the course on the course homepage [earlham.edu].

    In general, you should check out the Computer Science program [earlham.edu] at Earlham College [earlham.edu] if you're looking for a great, open-minded, small liberal arts school to study CS and all the related topics at an undergraduate level.

  • I would like to welcome you to the clan if (sometimes) intelligent people. We are a small clan, and our numbers do not grow quickly.

    On another note, I have just perfected my advertisement for my soon to go IPO company, called linuxIPOmachine.

    LinuxIPOmachine is proud to announce our latest innovative products for the average linux user. Recent studies and polls have determined that the average linux user will use anything with with linux and/or the words 'opensource' in it, so we have embraced this.

    linuxphone. Using a stripped down version of linux, you can now use linux on our custom phone. Multi-tasking (call waiting required) is no problem! You can even telnet into the base unit via the handset and use the phone remotely!

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    linuxDoorbell. Once again proving that there is nothing that linux shouldn't be ported to, we have installed a custom version of the linux kernel into a doorbell. The multi-tasking nature of linux allows multiple doorbell rings at the same time, something that no other doorbell can claim!

    OpenSource Can Opener. Following our OpenSource screwdriver is the Can Opener. The nature of OpenSource will allow any bug fixes and design flaws to be quickly corrected, ensuring the best damn can opener in the world.

    OpenSource linuxPinball. A lot of people personally don't own a pinball machine or would give serious thought to purchasing one, but this is both OpenSource AND linux! Hurry and reserve yours now, before we are sold out!


    There are more products on the way! Keep alert for more announcements from LinuxIPOmachine!

  • I think at that point your primary problem would be computing on a television monitor. They just don't have the fidelity required. Ever see one of those PCTV converters that would take your monitors output, and display it on a TV screen? It may look neat, but try using it for your primary interface.

    Blech..
  • From what I saw is he was simply going to attempt to build a link from his pc to the n64. I saw nothing about him attempting to make linux run on the n64, in fact, after *gasp* reading the article, he says it was impracticle to do it, with only 4mb of ram, no hd, no keyboard, etc. He hasn't even started to build the cable, from what I've seen.

    Read the very last page [earlham.edu]: "Porting linux to it shouldn't be impossible, even if it is difficult. The N64's controller architecture at least allows for the possibility of alternative devices (I have read somwhere that it used a microcontroller, which communicated with the console, allowing for virtually unlimited buttons,etc.) If so, both a a keyboard and a mouse could be converted, with only moderate difficulty."

    He's not saying that it can't be done, just that it would be extremely difficult. It's probably not really worth the effort, but it would still be an interesting project...

    Chris "Bob" Odorjan
  • I think at that point your primary problem would be computing on a television monitor. They just don't have the fidelity required. Ever see one of those PCTV converters that would take your monitors output, and display it on a TV screen? It may look neat, but try using it for your primary interface.

    Precisely why I kinda relegated the entire linux x-server market to web browsing or otherwise graphical uses. :-)
  • Why do you want a keyboard for the N64,

    Because a keyboard and mouse is the One True Way to play Quake....

    :)
  • Hmm. I can see good reasons to approach this from the other angle - instead of coming up with a bootstrap Linux on a N64 cart, have a standalone cart that takes the HP Microdrive [slashdot.org] (possibly a bad name - anyone remember the ZX Microdrive? :+) which has 300+MB of storage - as a bootable device. Properly constructed, such a cartridge could allow use of Linux, allow people to write their own games for the N64, and generally find a new use for a midrange-spec machine that is now being replaced with newer, faster models (and isn't that what Linux is usually loaded on? :+)

    The N64 is a far-from-ideal platform for Linux - no keyboard, no networking, and almost no ram - but this could let hundreds of kids that have never used a "real" computer outside of a classroom get a feel for Linux - which is a reasonable end in itself :+)
    --

  • I really think the lead-in for this article is misleading. He's not porting Linux to his N64.
    I disagree - He is laying down the framework for a port, in the same manner as Linux itself couldn't have been created without the Gnu compilers and utilities it is built on and with. He has Closely examined the hardware, built an interface between the N64 and the pc for test purposes, and has "emulated" a cartridge (or at least the initial handshake of one). Combine this with the N64 emulation data that is now emerging, and you should be able to start designing a Linux that would run on there. Ok, he hasn't exactly reached the top of Everest here, but he has at least climbed a few cliffs :+)
    --
  • Relaxen und vatch das blinkenlichts!!
    Sorry, couldn't resist...
  • Nor did I say it was impossible :-) I said impracticle. I should also add "of dubious use"

    Just because it is possible to run linux on something doens't mean we should. I have jokingly made a post about that somewhere else in this article.

    What caught my attention was the post (and the comment on the front of the article) that the people said they would buy a n64 just for this... just for what? What would you do with an n64 running linux? How many dollars would you throw into it to just be able to do the most basic of computer tasks? Face it, n64 is a console. It has one purpose, to play games. It is not suited very well for other purposes, and is really not the best thing to run a general-purpose os on.

    I have the same feeling about linux on the palms... sure it can be done, but to what gain? What use would I gain out of it?


  • A joke web page about this was actually posted back in 1997, and is still up:

    http://www.ix.de/ix/artikel/E/1997/04/03 6/ [www.ix.de]

  • I mean, Linux exists because there is a NEED for it. Just how much NEEDS there is for Linux to run on N64 or Playstation, or microwave oven or toaster?

    Are you sure about this? How much of Linus' motivation for writing Linux was to fill his need for a decent free Unix-ish system on x86 hardware? And how much of it was simply the fact that he derived a sort of playful enjoyment from it?

    More 'important' new developments than we often realize arise from play. The guy attempting this port may not end up generating anything useful. But at the very least, he'll learn a good deal in the process, and be able to apply that knowledge on more genuinely useful projects involving Linux or the N64, or other software or hardware entirely. And maybe he'll generate a neat toy that others can pick up, play with, and learn from.

  • I thought it was quite interesting that the student used FreeBSD to debug the hardware rather than Linux, does this mean that Hardcore CS kids use FreeBSD instead? Maybe... Most likely its just what he personally preferred to use on his desktop, why he didn't try to port NetBSD/OpenBSD is beyond me. They already have OpenBSD for the Dreamcast, N64 OpenBSD isn't too unlikely in that case.

    I suggest you check out:
    http://slash.dotat.org:4000/go/0
  • Nor did I say it was impossible :-) I said impracticle. I should also add "of dubious use"

    Absolutely. The PC N64 interface would have some use to the emulator developers, but running Linux on the console is pretty much pointless (although, like I said, it would be neat to see).

    What caught my attention was the post (and the comment on the front of the article) that the people said they would buy a n64 just for this... just for what?

    Talk about vapourware... B-)

    I have the same feeling about linux on the palms... sure it can be done, but to what gain? What use would I gain out of it?

    At least it would be somewhat worthwhile on palmtop computers (mainly so people could say they didn't use WindowsCE :-); something like ELKS might be more appropriate in this case, however...

    Chris "Bob" Odorjan
  • Very good points in your slide presentation...however, I have to ask....

    FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD/Darwin/etc etc ad ininitum ad nauseum???? How is this better than a gazillion distros of Linux?

    The point is, both communities are fragmented...but here's the thing:

    It creates a more competitive environment (heck, even Red Hat's distro is used by competitors against them...take a look at Linux-Mandrake sometime :^)

  • waffles [slashdot.org]

    Okay, so that wasn't a common one.

    Linux works fine on the platforms that other OSes already run fine on, not absurd gadgets that it would have no point running on. In fact, it would be an insult to the Linux community if Linux was ported to, say, a wrist-watch MP3 player. Linux would get the press for being the "most pointless OS in existence".

    -ka

  • The N64's ram is expandible, and the raw processing power of the beast is not to be toyed with (consider its cost). Ever opened up the beast and played with the memory expansion card? (I have)..

    Use an ISA or PCI card that connects to the plugin, and you can use your PC's ram and HD space as memory for the thing, as the design allows the cartidges (or, in this case, computer) to contain things like expansion ram, and extra processors. You may see it as limited, but it is very expenadible, and hackable.
    ---
  • yes, but palmos works great on the palms already. linux on them is just an insult, to both linux and to palm :-P
    If the palm had more cpu, I would probably think differently...

  • Put a modem-and-or-network, ROM and 2x PS/2 plugs into a cartridge and you have a great TV-compatible X client with a robust TCP stack and a few other features not normally expected in a toy (e.g. run traceroutes, nmap scans, FreeCiv).

    You might have to add some RAM and use an expansion connector instead of the cartridge. If you added a hard drive and some RAM, it would be about $Oz500 for an essentially complete PC system.
  • ...and Linux actually has more credibility (in the eyes of mainstream press) as an embedded system than as a mainstream OS.

    The competition in this market, we are told, is an embeddable version of Windows 2000. Hah! Imagine a washing machine requiring 64MB of RAM that "blueloads" and occasionally requires reformatting and reinstallation, and a toaster with no elements but four Itaniums each side of the bread, all sitting on NT's command line doing nothing.

    If you wanted RAM for Quake or something, you could quadruple your PC's tally by borrowing from your appliances, or multiply your framerate tenfold by plugging your Voodoo card into your toaster and installing Linux on it!
  • No, a direct neural uplink is the One True Way to play Quake...

    -----------------------

  • >If you wanted RAM for Quake or something, you could quadruple your PC's tally by borrowing from your appliances, or multiply your framerate tenfold by plugging your Voodoo card into your toaster and installing Linux on it!

    So basically what you're saying is "Beowulf cluster" (well not exactly). We've heard that already. Yeah, maybe you'd get some framerate at all out of your toaster! A toaster with Linux on it isn't a toaster anymore. True, Linux has a heck of a lot of credibility as an embedded OS, but, "twit", A TOASTER IS NOT AN EMBEDDED SYSTEM, nor will it ever be, because if it does become one, then it immediately changes from a respectable status as a useful toaster into an impractical mess. Ever heard of making a car that turns into an airplane? Well at least the two both involve the similar concepts of propulsion and steering. Computing and toasters? Yeah, right. Burn up your expensive chips, that's what. No, a Crusoe wouldn't help.

    Kenneth

  • Owners of the Donkey Kong 64 software already have a 4 MB memory expansion pack, which would give "Linux 64" 8 MB to roam. And a dumb terminal and NIC could be rigged up to one of the controller (read: serial) ports. A swapfile could be emulated with in-memory compression (a la Connectix RAM Doubler for Mac).
  • WWF Attitude is 256 Mbit = 32 MByte. So is Zelda IIRC.
  • Back in 1996, Nintendo talked of the microprocessor in the n64 as reprogramable. This would enable nintendo to rewrite faster code and improve games as the console aged. It seems because the n64 had a tough programming curve and not mush in the way of support from middleware companies, that there was never any rewrite of the core processor code because that would have set the developers back too far. Linux is being used in the middleware for the Playstation2 so maybe the tough programming of consoles has come to an end.
  • While the N64 has good graphics processing, the actual processor isn't that fast. If my memory is correct, the N64 only runs at 90Mhz. Not exactly a speed demon.

    -----

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