Red Hat Linux Available Free To UK Schools 347
Sara Chan writes "Red Hat is making its distribution of Linux available free to schools in the United Kingdom. This might mean that a whole generation grows up in the UK with very positive feelings about Linux: the long-term value could be really large. Red Hat will still charge for support (likely at a discount)--but this will probably just encourage schools to grow their own Linux gurus.
"
it's about freekin time. (Score:1)
lets get it going in the US.
Free? (Score:3)
Seriously, what value is a shiney box and a manual going to have for a school? They should be downloading everything for free anyway.
Out-damn-standing (Score:3)
And the best part is, there are no hidden traps, a la Microsoft. Red Hat may want to change or yank their support entirely in ten years or so, but the product is still viable. Schools could hook up with anyone who met their price (and as the article said, they could hire or grow their own Linux guru.)
Jay (=
Re: (Score:2)
this is good news, but nothing special. (Score:2)
So where is the news? (Score:1)
Linux at a young age (Score:2)
Free Publicity? (Score:1)
More than anything it sounds like a case of RedHat getting some free publicity by sounding like they're doing something generous when in reality they're doing something that they normally do anyway.
Re:it's about freekin time. (Score:2)
To top that off, people use what they know. the kids of today are unquestionably the IS managers and system admins of tomorrow. Grass roots all the way. It's one of the biggest things that kept apple alive for so long, it will work as well for linux.
and think of the possibilities of education with open source software. if lots of schools begin to use OSS, they can not only learn, but contribute greatly. Quite an advantage for all over the current setup.
great news. but I'm disappointed it took so long. Of course, we still have to see if any schools take them up on the offer, and if they do, are they putting those students at a disadvantage in a Microsoft-dominated world.
Re:Free? (Score:1)
According to the article, the first school to use Redhat is Parrs Wood High School. Does anyone have a link to this high school's web page, or a link that mentions which schools are going to use Redhat?
Linux is schools and teachers.. (Score:1)
If they get the training do you think they will find out the software is freely downloadable in ISO format?
Downloading 650 megs (Score:3)
What, on their T1s, right? The school my wife taught at didn't even have modem access as far as I know... Yes, getting free CD distribution and a manuala WOULD be a very big deal to a lot of these schools.
----
Re:So where is the news? (Score:4)
Free? (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Hang on a minute... (Score:1)
Mindshare (Score:2)
Personally I'm running 6.1 at the moment and was disconcerted at the quality of the manuals in the Standard Edition. I'm sure that there will be plenty of teachers that know how to set up Linux, but it's safe to say that there will be a lot more that are slightly frustrated.
I wasn't all that happy with RedHat's email support when I used 5.2 either. It took a while to get answers - menawhile my problems were solved by local gurus. So, if there are plenty of UK LUGs that are going to be on hand it might work out. Sure, there are lots of people that will do it out of the goodness of their hearts - but when it's tied to a specific distro like RH and they're effectively doing free support they might be less enthusiastic. And that's what we're dealing with mostly - enthusiasts, people who do it for the sheer joy of it.
Does anyone feel that other distro's might be more appropriate to a "mass" installation of this kind? Still, kudos to RH for taking the step, just because it makes sense from a future marketing perspective doesn't mean that it's bad.
Excellent to see... (Score:2)
==
BREAKING NEWS: (Score:2)
The sun will come up tomorrow!
huh? (Score:2)
___
finally... (Score:1)
=======
There was never a genius without a tincture of madness.
Re:Out-damn-standing (Score:1)
UK and Linux (Score:1)
I guess I was expecting something like SuSE to be a dominate player based solely on location.
Although I can understand why Business like Red Hat. Ask SuSE for install support and you get a message back with a lot of German and little English at the end. That's just the auto responder. It's another three weeks for a Tech to reply to mail.
Microsoft practices (Score:1)
good publicity (Score:1)
Re:Free? (Score:1)
The BBC article is a little vague about what these systems are going to used for, and that's an important issue. One would hope that the schools have more ambitious plans than just "surfing the web". Is there an adequate amount of educational software available for Linux?
This brings up the issue of compatibility with the computers that the students use at home. Again, web surfing is a no brainer, but what about other software packages? Are the kids going to be fighting with the same portability issues that drive us "big people" crazy?
Don't get me wrong, I like this idea. But as a parent of two little kids I can't help but think about these issues.
/Don
Typo Alert (Score:1)
BRW: Check out http://linuxdocumentary.uoregon.edu for interviews with all the top Linux guys, even Rob Malda.
I submitted this to
Re:Free? (Score:1)
Re:What the hell?!? (Score:1)
Not quite anyone, but really the UK government should do this! RedHat always was about "support" really, at least that was the impression I had when I started using it.
Turned out that I was quite turned off by their support. I'm thinking of switching to Debian from what I hear and see.
Linux needs this. (Score:1)
Yes, they can just download it for free but, they don't get as much documentation and, if you don't have a system (of any kind) running the online docs are as useless as nipples on men.
They can put the manuals in the school library for everybody to use as needed.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
Preaching to the choir (Score:1)
And I hate to be a cynical nay-sayer, and while I recognize this as being good, why post it here? For me, the articles on /. are secondary to the intelligent discussions that come about as a result of their being posted here.
Having said that, what kind of engaging conversation other than everyone agreeing that "this is a good thing," is this article going to generate?
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Good PR (Score:1)
I will continue to use SuSE at our Uni and if I get involved with anything at any of the local schools I would "give" them SuSE.
Publically I will not criticise this move as it promotes something I support, A little hypocracy goes a long way 8-)
Re:Linux at a young age (Score:2)
I thought I had a great computer --a 386DX25 with 4MB of ram and an extra large 80MB hard drive. If I only had something faster than a 1200 baud modem back then . . . The well maintained unix accounts kept me spoiled and never got around to an install myself.
Re:finally... (Score:1)
However, you seem to have convieniently forgotten that Apple's strategy largely failed. How many of the kids who used Apple IIs and Macs in High School and College use them now? Mostly only the graphics designers. It seems that cool colored cases are more important than early exposure, at least based on the market!
Fantastic move by RedHat (Score:1)
The manual for Redhat can really come in handy to those new to this stuff.
Good, but how many school admins will support it? (Score:2)
When we got internet access (end of last year), we (some friends and I) were pushing to get Linux installed (probably have gone with SuSE as it worked right out of the box on our test system), even telling our school deputy head (who controlled the finances) the favorite words of any financially-challenged institution: "It's FREE!".
Still, he refused and forked out the money for Windows NT, saying it's better supported (or words very much to that effect). And we did show him a working Linux internet proxy, so did have some facts.
So, how many schools will honestly scrap Windows for Linux, rather than remaining on the Microsoft boat "because it's better supported"?
That having been said, I was one of the very few people at school who knew enough about Linux to be able to maintain a working system. Isn't computing fun when you know more than your teachers?
Response to privacy flap? (Score:2)
Isn't it already free? (Score:1)
Re:Free? (Score:1)
Re:this is good news, but nothing special. (Score:1)
I believe school officials would love to get on the linux train, but if they do so, they are only putting their own necks out with no hope of reward, and great risks to themselves. This is one step in giving them support, and letting them know there is another option available, and they don't have to step off a cliff (into the void of no support, no familarity, no backing) to get there.
Red Hat offers free software free to schools. (Score:1)
rather um.... Big PR little content.
I mean Linux has been free for _all_ since
it came out. Every school all over the world
can, (if they have the ability) download it
and use it.
If they dont, they can buy a cd from CheapBytes
and use that one. (Instead of getting ripped off
by RedHat paying $80 for _free_ software)
So like DUH.
It sounds more like a scam than a great deal.
it should have read:
"Red Hat today offered free software FREE to schools".
This is Bull (Score:1)
This never works (Score:3)
I hate to be a wet blanket, but this never works. The theory always sounds good, "Hey! get them while they're young!", but the strategy has always been a failure. Look at Apple: They gave tons of subsidies to the schools, but how much did this affect their market share?
The problem is that kids have roughly the same priorities as adults: They don't care about the operating system, they want cool software. And all the cool software is for Windows.
Sure, their are a couple of games that have been ported to Linux, but everything else is Windows. I mean, Windows is light-years ahead on basic things such as creating documents with colors that will work on your basic cheap-o Epson color printer (and look right).
When we start seeing applications comparable to the ones in Windows we will start seeing Linux make inroads in both the "real world" and the schools.
---
Why is this "News"?? (Score:1)
I did elicit a rather uncomfortable response a few years ago, though, when I asked a Red Hat rep at a demo they were doing if it was legal to duplicate Red Hat 5.0 CD-ROMs out of a box set.
s/privacy/piracy/ (Score:1)
Some Thoughts from the UK (Score:3)
It's free, sure, but ever try to download a 500 megabyte file over a 1.44 modem, whilst paying through the nose for the phone call in the process? In short, Red Hat are saying "put those phones away, you twits - we'll take care of things."
(Note to Americans and other aliens: British schools are under-funded. BADLY under-funded. A typical school has a leaking roof, a single reel-to-reel for language teaching in a class of 30 to 40, textbooks that haven't been replaced since the 60's, and food that tastes like it was originally prepared in the 60's.)
Many primary schools in England have maybe one computer between 30 kids. Secondary schools might have one computer between 5 or 6. These are NOT rich establishments, and ANY assistance is usually received with open arms and few questions.
The phone costs saved are enormous. At 10p per unit, peak time, (which is when schools operate), you're talking around 4,740 GBP for the download, which is about $7,870. In short, Red Hat is donating the equivalent of nearly $8,000 to every school in England. In my books, that's a substantial sum of money.
Schools in England tend to have enormous influence over the rest of England, too. When the BBC and Acorn got together to make an educational computer, the BBC micro, they basically re-invented the entire British computer market. They also inadvertantly brought computer cracking to the public's attention, when their PRESTEL account was cracked, and messages were pushed onto the screen of their computer, live on national TV.
I'm sure Red Hat are familiar with the peculiar dynamics of the British market (such as a willingness to take a risk, and absolutely zero loyalty to labels), and are also familiar with the fact that Britain is a potentially very powerful market to tap, having it's grubby paws in both America and the European Union.
it's already free for everyone (Score:1)
"Making it available"? (Score:1)
Will the juggernaught respond? (Score:1)
Can anyone else see Msoft wanting to fight back and start dumping software on schools for $0 for marketing/"goodwill" purposes?
Re:Free? (Score:1)
Hmmm. (Score:1)
Kid: "daddy, daddy, what's emacs?"
Father: *cough* "Go to your room son, this is a vi household."
Kid: "But.."
Father: "No ifs, ands, or butts. Any more out of you and I'll yank the cat5 out of the switch!"
Re: Cool - children know it all anyway (Score:1)
Knowing the way things work, the kids will know infinitely more about the system and its setup than the teachers anyway, no matter what it's running - so are they sending the teachers on a "what the heck is Linux" course?!
Wrong. GPL is GPL, no exceptions. (Score:1)
Corrupting Children (Score:2)
Yes, of course they're going for the kids -- and in state-run schools, too, the traditional centers of liberal/socialist indoctrination. No doubt the US will be next, since US socialists like the Klintons always obediently take their lead from the socialists of Europe. Don't forget that all of Europe is in the grip of the socialists, and England is one of the most socialist nations of the whole sick crew.
This is the future: Open, unashamed collaboration between jackbooted government socialists and grass-roots software socialists. No good can come of it, obviously. They're training the kids to expect something for nothing (though of course this may backfire: The pathetically inadequate quality of so-called "free" software may instead illustrate to the kids the absolutele impossibility of getting something for nothing, in which case honest vendors like Microsoft will ultimately win). No doubt a heaping helping of homosexual internet porn will be rammed down the children's throats into the bargain. This cannot be helped, but when all of England's children have been brainwashed into homosexuality and abortionism, their birth rate will plummet and ultimately leave their island open for settlement by the decent Christian people to whom it was granted by God in the first place. We shall see.
In the meantime, don't let this happen here. Fight it will all your strength. My children, naturally, are never allowed anywhere near the government sex-and-evolution-religion indoctrination centers laughably called "schools". We teach them at home, where they get proper, well-established science and edifying literature to read. They will be well prepared to inherit this nation when the liberals have degraded themselves into utter hopelessness.
Today's NEWS: Redhat Now Free, Gates Resigns! (Score:1)
Apple tried this once (Score:1)
I mention this so Linux can learn from their mistakes, instead of repeating them...
Re:it's about freekin time. (Score:2)
Remember, portable skills are far more important than specific ones in a fast-moving job market. Flexibility and adaptability add value. Learning to point and click may be easier at first, but in the long run solving problems yourself and doing things the hard way will take you much further.
People learn by being stretched, not by being pampered. And that's the main reason why I think a Linux system should be right at the top of the priority list for any serious educational establishment.
Re:Free? (Score:2)
If you've never heard of "da box" effect, here's an explanation:
Ever noticed that print ads in magazines for software always include an isometric view of the box that the software comes in? This is even true when it's software that doesn't come in a box. "da box" apparently gives people some assurance that what they are purchasing is real, that it's not just magnetic domains on a spinning disk inside their computer.
Until a product has "da box" it's nothing. Thousands of FTP sites across the net can't counter that perception.
Red Hat Linux comes in "da box." I've even noticed recently that the Slackware site (www.slackware.com) has a bitmap of "da box" on their page (lord help us!)
Hear, hear! (drifting OT) (Score:2)
Just like muscles, the brain has to be worked to stay strong.
--
Re:it's about freekin time. (Score:3)
Linux is already growing in popularity in schools.
and if they do, are they putting those students at a disadvantage in a Microsoft-dominated world.
Actually, students who learn Linux are more likely to learn the abstract concepts and in-depth knowledge that is really valuable. Too many people who learn only MS products only learn to point and click through pre-solved problems like MSCE instruction programs and never really learn what they are doing or why. They often can't solve differing problems or adapt to different ways of doing the same thing.
And at any rate, there is no guarantee that this will always be a Microsoft dominated world, and getting to the students of today is a smart move on Red Hat's part, as they will be the people making purchasing decisions later on. With Linux, inlike Microsoft who like to set up deals to exclude everyone else, there is no reason why schools can't teach something else as well. Having more broad educational experiences is a good thing in most cases.
Re:Free? (Score:3)
Re:Free? (Score:3)
Re:This never works (Score:2)
If Linux wants to become the "Ralph Nader" of operating systems, this is the road to travel down.
Re:Attention RedHat... (Score:4)
What I would like to see Red Hat do is provide some options right up front on security settings similar to how you select 'client', 'server' or 'custom' so that you could pick whether you want your machine locked down tight, locked down a little, wide open, or let the advanced user pick and choose what they want for custom installs.
Redhat is always free (Score:2)
Maybe the story should say "Redhat Linux MEDIA and MANUALS available Free to UK Schools" since Redhat itself as a distribution is available free to anyone who wants it.
Microsoft giving away "Free" Windows Software also (Score:2)
Microsoft has been giving away "free" Windows software Licenses to Penn State College students--Win98, WinNT, FrontPage, Office, Visual Studio Pro, etc... For instance, this [psu.edu] offer, where a PSU student can get the license for free, and a CD for $1-2.
There are a few catches, of course. I've been told that installation requires an online registration and that they can only be re-installed a certain number of times, or maybe there is an expiration date past which it will not install (Not clear on this, haven't been to PSU in a while).
Of course, that's not the real catch. The real catch is that it's a Microsoft product, of course.
"Easy is what you're used to."
TheDullBlade provides RedHat Linux free to schools (Score:2)
The ceremony was simple, with TheDullBlade meeting an eager member of the local high school's computer club. "Here you go," he said, handing the kid a CD-ROM he bought from CheapBytes and a printout of the manual on the disc, "install it on your school's systems and pass it on to the next school." Then he opened the floor for questions from the gathered press.
When asked why he would make such an amazing act of charity he replied, "Hey, I'm not in this for the money. I was done with the disc; actually, since I got a cable modem I don't order the CDs any more, so I thought it would be nice to hand it to someone who could use it. Of course, I'm pretty good with Linux, if one of those schools wants to hire me to get their systems working, they can do it at my standard consulting rate of $50/hour."
TheDullBlade, truly an inspiration to us all. Give him a hand, folks!
Wrong. CD with GPL software != GPL CD (Score:2)
And yes, this means that you cannot copy the CD and use it on more than one computer. It would be like saying that Win95 is free because the startup sounds are free.
Re:This never works (Score:2)
I don't underestimate the importance of that at all in terms of getting people involved with a particular platform at a superficial level.
No, no! It's not "superficial" to expect quality, easy-to-use applications. Take browsers. Let's fact it: Netscape under Linux sucks compares to Netscape under Windows, and really sucks compared to IE under Windows. But it's not just browsers; it's the whole gamut of software. When you get beyond shell-level programs, almost every application is superior under Windows.
At a high academic level, TeX might be useful, but it's worthless to the average student who just wants to write a report in a simple, friendly way.
Unfortunately, far too many Linux advocates focus on whatever advantages the O/S has, and forget that people use applications to get real work done. IMO, that's the huge weight that will make or break linux, pretty desktops notwithstanding.
---
This IS a big deal. (Score:2)
Sure schools already can D/L the code for free, BUT the policies are dictated by those clueless suits. If the suit gets it in his/her head that it's dangerous (virii, trojans, etc...) to download something from the internet, they policy will prohibit it.
If the suit decides that because M$ is giving the school a good deal, then M$ it will be. RedHat is going the route of oneupsmanship. (Or onedownsmanship if you will)
School employees are greedy SOBs, I've had teachers ask me if there's an "educator's" discount on a $5 pack of floppy disks before. Free is better than cheap. Because the distro comes in a shiny retain box, and it's free it kills two birds with one stone.
1. Fears about the "dangerous" content on the internet are avoided.
AND
2. It's free, educational people LOVE when something's free.
Smart move RedHat, bravo. Too bad SuSe beat you to it.
LK
Positive feelings from school? (Score:2)
CD ROMs and manuals do have value (was Re:Free?) (Score:4)
I've been using Linux since the SLS distribution in the pre-1.0 kernel days. I'm not a kernel hacker, but I've recompiled it myself to add non-default drivers on a couple of occasions and I have configured LILO by hand once or twice
And I like having a printed install manual and a CD ROM. There are a small number of documents that are useful in printed form. Installation documents, and the ones I need to recover when I screw up the boot process: LILO docs, Bootprompt HOWTO, that sort of stuff. The reason is blindingly obvious: I don't have a running system at the time I'm referring to them.
As for the CD ROM, I've done the floppy swap install too many times. I timed it once. Flat out, a full install on my trusty old generic 166 MHz Pentium took about 6 hours off of floppies and about half an hour off a CD ROM. And I didn't have to sit in front of the machine to install from the CD ROM. Getting that kind of speed doesn't require any hardware that isn't pretty common these days even in schools with a tight budget. No missing or damaged floppies either.
If Red Hat is supplying a boxed set to each school, I applaud them. Even if the schools don't install it, if they are willing to loan it out to the students through the library, then the students can try it out. Hmmm, maybe I'll donate a copy to the local library.
Re:Some Thoughts from the UK (Score:2)
You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding. RedHat is not giving the equivalent of nearly $8,000 to every school in England. There are numerous companies that specialize in selling Linux CD's at very reasonable costs. Also, once the school has one CD, a burner can duplicate it for the entire district (or UK equivalent). So please do not think RedHat is giving away $8,000 to every school in England. They arenot even giving away any support, so basically, this whole deal is a crock! RedHat is looking to long UK schools into their version of Linux, and charge for support later on.
Re:Forget it... (Score:2)
better than RH...but the story is about RH
giving away lots of CDs to non-Unix people
(more than likely). Since RH is trying to make
Linux easier, why not make it more secure for
newbies and give them a fighting chance?
Re:Free? (Score:2)
Silly or evil? (Score:3)
Red Hat does include non-free software with its distributions (on a seperate disc I believe), including demos of commercial software and full versions of commercial software which are seeking to establish themselves as some sort of standard (REBOL, for example).
This is exactly the same as what MS or Apple does when they give away free copies of their software to educational institutions. They are trying to hook people on their proprietary stuff while they're young (give away a few copies at practically no cost to the class of 20 today, sell 20 copies a few years from now).
Furthermore, they seem to be looking to set up support contracts with the schools. This could end up being simply a back door into their traditional profit model.
Don't be too quick to dismiss this either as an innocent act of charity or a meaningless gesture. They might be setting themselves up as the next Microsoft.
Re:This never works (Score:2)
I beg to differ. Look at McDonald's. They are a PRIME (and fairly well documented) case of infiltrating the minds of children to affect marketshare in the future. It has been written that most children know the jingle of the current advertising campaign put on by McDonald's by age 4, perhaps earlier. That certainly affects how things work in the future.
Others in this thread have pointed out that DEC did this back in the old days, and it worked well for them (albeit for different reasons). The fact is, exposing kids to Linux will get them used to the Linux way of doing things. One example of the confusion many experience when they are forced to abandon the rather arbitrary A: B: C: etc scheme for naming drives for the (perhaps more sensible)
I'd think this would be a real benefit if we could teach these kids more than basic Linux usage and system administration. As we all know, Linux is an extremely valuable educational tool because of its open nature. Being able to show the kids kernel code to demonstrate file systems principles would be a wonderful use of the technology. Another example would be security. Linux could be used to demonstrate why open systems are superior to closed ones when it comes to security.
These are perhaps the most important lessons to be learned by kids. It's wonderful they will be exposed to X, GNOME, KDE, the shell and all. But this is a wonderful opportunity to actually teach the kids ABOUT computers, not merely how to use them.
I applaud RedHat for their insight and their efforts.
Re:Out-damn-standing (Score:3)
Actually, more viable.
Windows 3.1 was in its way a technical tour de force, but it was built of a foundation of crud. It was bursting at the seams the day it was delivered. Nonetheless considerable useful work could be done on it then, and could still be done today on a ten year old system, provided that it booted.
Linux, by contrast, is much cleaner than Windows 3.1. The limitations it has on memory and so forth leave much more headroom than Windows did a decade ago. We have every reason to believe a RedHat 6.1 system in 2010 would be relatively more useful than a Windows 3.1 system would be today.
Two other facts will make this a success. First, both up and downgrades are freely available. Admin aren't on a forced upgrade schedule due to adding new hardware. When it is sensible, they can upgrade all or most of their computers. Leaving aside licensing costs, the freedom to choose when to upgrade or to get new hardware with less than the most up to date versions is going to reduce TCO.
The second important fact is because of the wider configurability and choice of UIs, legacy machines can be given longer life. For example, if you don't have the power to run KDE or Gnome, you can configure a workstation for limited use, say as a web terminal, using IceWM. You can install IceWM on Gnome to keep some common level of look and feel between the workstations. Finally, you can configure a machine for command line use for various utility roles such as web server, firewall, print server and so forth.
In any case, there's bound to be somebody around who is runing RH 5.2 on a 2.0 series kernel just to keep his uptime record going!
y favorite palindrome (Score:2)
My favorite palindrome: a man a plan a canal panama
Mine is:
Esope reste ici et se repose
"Esope stay here and take some rest" in English but it doesn't have the same effect
Anyway:
Amazing how the big Linux companies have brainwashed people into thinking that paying $50 gives you more than just a nice box, support and a printed manual.
Well, I thought that the manual, the nice box and the support was all so i wonder what they are trying to make us believe there is more.
Not cheap to DL in th U.K. (Score:2)
Apple beneficiary (Score:4)
I was one of the early Apple 2 beneficiary to elementary and junior high schools.
If it was not for Apple founders' foresight and generosity, I would not have had access (however great my desire) to coding and programming computers as early as I had wanted.
This one random act of kindness changed my (and probably many others') life and where it went from then on.
// Apple loyalty
It did work and it didn't.
In my case, I stood staunchly steadfast against DOS-tel (yup, that long ago
There were 2 circumstances that forced my hand very reluctantly away from my beloved Apples.
a. Macintosh betrayal
To me the creation of Mac-line (Lisa) itself, and then Apple's favoritism to Mac and abandonment of my beloved Apple 2-line (Apple 2 gs is ADORABLE!) hits me like a dagger to a naive child's heart.
How could they abandon the simplicity of command line, the "hackability" of a machine you keep fiddling the internals with into this icky GOOEY dummy-proof box that discourage you from playing with it?
Apple 2's have a LOT of room to grow. Dummy-proof-ing and pretty-fy-ing it was not what I was thinking.
Apple 2 gs was a good and right direction. (ah I can program sound cards, I have more graphics programming options, yeah, etc.)
Then the double betrayal of giving up on us loyal Apple-2-ers to support the new-fangled Mac-line, that was too much.
b. $ and survival
After a while, there is absolutely no (not even minimal wage) income to be made in Apple 2
So I sourly crammed in DOS knowledge and Intel processor knoweldge (was surprised how similar things are)
Was "conformed" even before the Windows OS.
c. could they have won?
I don't know about the entire population, but I knew I would had stuck with the Apple 2 line if Apple itself would had stuck with it and not made the dreadful Macintosh thing.
Even if it meant poverty and unemployment (in coding field, I will just do it on the side).
But then I guess my life would had turned out very differently then.
// digression
BTW, teachers were no help. It was a funny situation. One day a bunch Apple 2 showed up. No one knew what to do with them. I just turned them on, fiddled around.
Still no teachers knew what to do, but I started to teach myself everything, how to code it, connecting them together. (HW-wise the Apple 2's were very hackable.)
The teachers started to ask me questions on them, and started to ask me to make use for them.
I started to code grade book programs, automatic letter to parent generation programs.
My elemenatry-junior high school started to pay me minimum wage (my first PROFESSIONAL programming job!) to do computer coding work.
I wrote up curriculum, wrote (supposedly) educational games, taught students and teachers, while having access to a whole bunch of Apples at one time.
Some teachers started to think I knew about this computer thing from another country, but I only started learning while in America at the school!
I learned a new language English at the same time I learned Apple BASIC, and then Apple assembly. So yes, I have been speaking assembly for as long as I have spoken English.
It was empowering to have the confidence to be the smartest computer person (to be so young and be treated to "guru-hood"
The educational Apple games I wrote for the teachers were hilarious!
One was "supposed" to teach math. What it does is it asks a simple + - * / arithmetic question. If you answer 1 right, you get to play to short Space Invader like game.
Basically the gaming sections are much longer than the "educational" content
I wrote an Apple HGR program of a girl friend who talks to me, in both HGR graphics, and also in text.
I had so many fond memories. It gave me so much positive experience growing up with computers.
Did the "experiment" fail? Naw. Not in my case.
Thanks again to the wonderful Apple founders.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer
Re:Some Thoughts from the UK (Score:2)
"RedHat is looking to long UK schools into their version of Linux, and charge for support later on."
Given that you can get to any company to support you with Linux (Redhat, Linuxcare,...) they certainly aren't trying to force them to use Redhat support (unless he has got the better quality/price ratio with school discounts), it's not as with proprietary software that aren't compatible with other tools and tha need frequent upgrade.
Re:MSU (Score:2)
I hate to burst your bubble, but Microsoft doesn't own any colleges. Do you hate them so much that you will believe anything negative someone says about them? They have a marketing agreement with certain universities. So what? So does McDonalds and Starbucks. Are you also pissed at Ford for entering into agreements with certain other universities to supply them with vehicles?
Microsoft did not come an campus and buy the board of regents or the deans or anyone. Rather, and I know that this is hard for people to understand, the universities voluntarily chose Microsoft. "But...but...but", you stammer, "Microsoft has billions of dollars and you can't compete with a competitor." BFD. The universities needed new network infrastructures. That takes money. Sure Redhat could have given them a couple hundred free CDs, but they don't have the cash resource to build a new network for them. The universities had a choice between Microsoft (and others) and a network, or Redhat and no network. Did you expect them to be stupid?
But what if a university did decide on Redhat? What does that do to Debian, SuSE and Slackware? What does that do to FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD?
Re:Free? (Score:3)
Re:Positive feelings from school? (Score:2)
but detested computer studies, despite excelling at it.
Despite or because?
I hated some pseudo computer science courses where all were were doing was using computer (yeah, and in mechanic courses do they teach driving?), or at best this was basics of programmation which I already knew.
Luckily I am lazy enough so I took it as an occasion not to have to do anything instead of being bored i was "in the clouds" (I hope this expression works in English
Re:This never works (Score:2)
Another example would be security. Linux could be used to demonstrate why open systems are superior to closed ones when it comes to security.
This is the flaw in your argument; you are wanting to use Linux for propaganda rather than education. Computers in schools are not generally used to teach kids about programming (much less Kernels), they are usually used for research, writing papers, educational tools, etc. In short -- it's the applications that matter, not the O/S.
Many of us in the computer business tend to think that everyone is interested in what goes on under the hood. In reality, probably only about 5% of the people want to know, or need to know what's under the hood. Most people just want to jump in the car and drive, and are not concerned about compression ratios. And this is how it should be. Not everyone has to be an engineer.
As for Macdonalds, that is a different thing. The first thing you have to realize is that Macdonalds does not sell hamburgers, they sell child care. They sell peace of mind that wherever you go, you are going to find a clean restaurant with predictable food.
To continue your analogy, it would be as if Macdonalds went into the schools to push students to learn about and use special Macd's fryers and coke dispensers. Well, no one cares how the food gets made, people want the food! This is why it's foolish to focus on the O/S rather than the applications.
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Re:Downloading 650 megs (Score:3)
Sure, but would they? This is the Apple strategy of getting the product into the schools. Most schools are probably not even aware of Cheapbytes - if they're aware of Linux at all. It's not a bad deal for the school, and it's not a bad deal for Red Hat. Sure, perhaps it's a bit of a PR stunt, but it's pretty cool, too.
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Re:Some Thoughts from the UK (Score:2)
They're not saving 8000 GBP, at most they save 99$ (store bought...) if they buy the official RH CD per school...
LetterRip
LIKELY discounted support? (Score:2)
First of all, RH is their *distribution*, not "their operating system. This wording is splitting hairs among *us*, but many in the media thing Red Hat = Linux and everyone else is an also-ran. This is the legacy of the Windows Herd Mentality.
Every Distribution has it's strength and weaknesses. One Red Hat weakness is ease of use, where they're 4 months behind Mandrake, Corel, Caldera and probably SuSE 6.3 (I haven't tried that one).
Where's the story in this? Will someone please step forward and donate one $2 Debian CD's to the school?
I don't think this is bad for Red Hat - this is good PR also for the OS - but Red Hat would appease the CYNIC in me if they said "we'll give them 75% off support", rather than "we won't commit to a specific discount, if any".
I don't use Debian YET, but it's becoming my favorite simply because the distribution and the development process BY THEMSELVES are Open. How much influence do we have on Red Hat or Corel's distributions? If you want the answer, take a close look at their installers. GUI installs are not a checklist item for a review-driven marketing contest.
This post made with Mozilla M12...
Re:Free? (Score:3)
This will no doubt create great word of mouth in the UK. I'm a little surprised they didn't do it here in the states first.
Re:MSU (Score:2)
No, it doesn't sound like a good thing. However, it is not my network. It belongs to PSU. Not the students. Not the professors. Not IT. If, on the other hand, they placed restrictions on your own personal network, that definitely be illegal. But as it stands now, it is merely bad form.
My employer has every right to limit my browsing porn sites, or submitting resumes to other companies, while using the company networks and computers. A university has exactly these same rights.
This is a good thing (Score:2)
My highschool, of which I dropped out in my senior year from, was part of a school district that refused to run anything but Windows NT and 95, due to the fact that they "have seen Linux take down an NT server when plugged into the network."
This anti-alternative OS situation became a problem when a friend and I created an alternative network for the school. We had everything up and running under Slackware 3.6 with redundant servers, NIS and workstation apps such as The GIMP. (Which was cool since the school only had six photoshop licenses for fourty computers).
When we presented our network to the school's administration, they refused to hook us up to the school's network because Linux was a "Shareware operating system with source code, so any 'hacker' could put a back door in it."
Redhat on a CD with a box from a company would be the first step in opening these sorts of people's minds. I applaud Redhat.
It's not the students who need to learn, it's the administration.
Re:This never works (Score:2)
Quite frankly, I see this as a wonderful opportunity to get kids to understand computers more. We have them understand science, the arts, language, all things vital to everyday living. As computers become more and more pervasive, those who can master them will be in that much better of a position.
I agree that not everyone needs to be an engineer...but I do think we would be wasting a valuable opportunity to further computer science if we DON'T take advantage of times like this to help kids learn more. Surely there are many kids in the UK schools in question that want to learn more about them....why not help them along?
Linux is a valuable, unique teaching tool. Squandering our chances can't be a good thing. That's all I'm saying.
And as for McDonald's as far as me and my friends are concerned, they simply sell hamburgers (and lousy ones at that.) Nothing more.
Re:oops -- bad speling - milking not miling (Score:2)
Head hurt that make
Dumping (Score:2)
No better, no worse.
Re:it's about freekin time. (Score:2)
Re:Not a newbie? (Score:2)
Actually, I was trying to emphasize that I am not afraid to tinker. I'm not worried about wrecking my system. But when I am doing this sort of thing, I have an occasional use for printed documentation. I was trying to point out exactly the sorts of things that should appear in print because of when they are needed.
As for your point, I'm rather thick-skinned, but a disabled banana could not recompile the kernel. You have to be able to guess what modules you want, and even type a little. I think it would require a trained cat at least.
Re: (Score:2)
OT: this is what is sad (Score:2)
This is what is sad.
2 of my junior high best friends (and kick a** math students) were 2 other girls.
They were (are) smart. We would get the highest grades.
Then something sad and tragic happens to my 2 girlfriends around 6th to 7th grades.
They start being interested being a girl, which unbeknownst to me (since I was and am socially inept and oblivious) means hide that you are good at or are interested in math and computers, or that as girl that you are good at anything at all.
The important thing is for other girls to like you, for you to dress nice, and for many boys to like you
That's what I mean by hit them young before they got brainwashed.
I *watched* my 2 girlfriends got brainwashed (they are still nice people, and still sweet).
High school tried hard to brainwash me, trust me.
(N.B. There is a "smart" threshold for girl high school popularity. It is OK (and important to popularity) to be reasonably smart, like join the honor society, be "computer literal", be a "cool chick.
But it is NOT OK to be THE SMARTEST chick/person who is several times over the head of the next smartest guy in the whole school. i.e, OK to be the valedictorian, but not OK if most of the AP calculus students are seniors, and you are in graduate math in 9th grade and writing papers.)
This prejudice is so strange.
(Given that when I was being super nerd at high school for being great at math and physics, I was actually making cash professionally as a photography model
Fortunately for me, I very much enjoy being a freak.
I love hanging around our small group of AD&D guys (all guys except me) who were tormented by the jocks, et. al. They are "real" people, and I am glad I have friendships with "real" and "intelligent" people
enough ranting now.
so, no, a lot of them dropped out.
Because society was cruel enough to tell a lot of other GIRLS (and even boys) computers are not for them.
They listened.
And I didn't.
Corrinne Yu
3D Game Engine Programmer