Kali Linux 2.0 Released 109
An anonymous reader writes: Kali Linux 2.0 has been released, together which an assortment of interesting new features. Most importantly, Kali is now a rolling distribution, using Debian Testing as their upstream source. (Download page.) There are also huge changes to the UI, including a fully fledged, custom GNOME 3 environment, as well as support for myriad other Desktop Environments. The maintainers describe the release this way: "If Kali 1.0 was focused on building a solid infrastructure then Kali 2.0 is focused on overhauling the user experience and maintaining updated packages and tool repositories." I'm enjoying 2.0 so far. What are your thoughts and comments?
So, what is the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the goal of this distribution? Why would anyone choose it over Debian testing?
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From what we see in #debian on IRC, the point of Kali Linux is to create a #kali-linux channel that has half a dozen screaming teenagers with no clue what they are doing and no interest in learning. (This then spills into other channels because they've not managed to get their l33t cracker questions answered in #kali-linux.)
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Oh yea, and I totally can't imagine why anyone might become frustrated enough with what passes for "being helpful" in #debian to fork it. /sarcasm
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+1 For this.
I was one of the first persons to start using Debian, when they were still on a.out... Even at that time already, the "being helpful" and "friendly support" were a sham. People in Debian IRC have always been introvert, rude and aggressive.
Luckily all of that is more than made up for by the fantastic system that Debian is.
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Re:So, what is the point? (Score:5, Funny)
You do realize that even a chicken can install Debian, so long as you put sufficient grain on the Enter key, right?
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You realize that I couldn't care less, right? I've long since abandoned Linux for NetBSD.
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the problem is The Kama Sutra does not cover most programs
AND NEITHER DOES WHAT MANUAL THE PROJECT HAS BOTHERED TO WRITE!
Most of the time the programs you really need a good manual
1 they use a wiki where 60% of the manual is "to be written" and or uses a setup designed to hide info
2 the manual is for 3 versions back (and they changed things 2 versions back)
3 the manual is just flat out WRONG
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Or.. the manual is 10+ screens worth of mostly obscure options that only one person ever used 20 years ago all listed in alphabetical order with no regards to relevance. Meanwhile all you really need is the syntax of that one really useful option that everyone should know.
That's my experience with RTFM anyway.
I wouldn't say that the answer is to go ask someone though. Ignore the manual AND the IRC. Go straight to Google. Someone else already asked your question. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
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He has spoken very wisely, because the original AC post was indeed the rant of a complete moronic idiot and it is wise to call things by their name.
Re:So, what is the point? (Score:5, Informative)
Summary sucks, so I went to the article to see what it was about... Basically it is a prebuilt penetration testing system. Now they're using the latest packages instead of older stale packages often associated with Debian, I guess?
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Well, they're using newer, less stale packages still associated with Debian. If you mentally characterize Debian as "stale" though, then chances are these packages are still going to be too old for your taste.
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Kali is the successor to Backtrack Linux.
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Summary sucks, so I went to the article to see what it was about... Basically it is a prebuilt penetration testing system. Now they're using the latest packages instead of older stale packages often associated with Debian, I guess?
Well, yes. If you don't know what Kali Linux is all about, the summary will certainly leave you wanting. Assuming that everyone here on /. is already familiar with this or that piece of tech, no matter how obscure or specialized, is something of a pattern with the editors here.
systemd is one reason not to use Debian. (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe you haven't heard, but Debian switched to using systemd a little while ago. The results have been, how should we put it, not so good. Although unwanted by much of the Debian community, systemd was forced into use through political maneuvering. It was then forced through unstable and testing much too soon. Many long-time Debian users suffered from broken installations. Ever since it ended up in Debian 8, a supposed "stable" release, far too many people have experienced problems with it. Many of its problems actually can't be fixed; they're inherently broken by their very nature. Its use of binary logging is a perfect example of this. The only way to fix binary logging is to not use it at all.
Due to how disruptive systemd was to Debian, both politically and technically, the Debian community has been split. There is the small minority who pushed for the inclusion of systemd in the first place. A small number of fanatics went off and tried, unsuccessfully, to fork Debian in to the failed Devuan distro. Many other Debian users have chosen to move to other operating systems that offer greater stability and robustness, including FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OS X, and even Windows.
What was once the most talented and helpful Linux community has been shattered and fragmented. The most awful thing about this whole ordeal is that it wasn't Microsoft, or SCO, or anyone outside of the project that caused so much harm. It was a self-inflicted destruction! The greatest harm to Linux isn't some corporation; it's those within the community who wish to force problematic software like systemd upon all Linux users.
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It does now, as of Kali 2.0, which is based on Debian 8. Its presence can be verified by running dpkg -l | grep systemd to find the installed packages, ps aux | grep systemd to find the processes, and trying to start a service that won't start for some reason to get the notes about running systemctl status something.service to find out what happened.
Most of the services themselves seem to show up in /etc/init.d, though, so there's still lots of init script use.
Neither of these points bother me, though I'm
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Neither of these points bother me, though I'm going to have to get used to a few new commands.
You don't even need new commands, service, invoke-rc.d and so on still work.
systemctl status is great though.
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fuck that, I read Gnome 3 on the summary and thought immediately "oh well it's a piece of shit".
I guess you _could_ build something usable on top of Gnome 3 but then, why the fuck would you?
(gtk sucks too)
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apt-get install cinnamon
Or whatever other DE suits you, as long as its available on Debian 8.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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Many long-time Debian users suffered from broken installations.
Really? I would be interested if you had a citation for this, because from what I've heard, systemd has worked tolerably well for most users.
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Many of its problems actually can't be fixed; they're inherently broken by their very nature. Its use of binary logging is a perfect example of this. The only way to fix binary logging is to not use it at all.
What is your problem?
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There is the small minority who pushed for the inclusion of systemd in the first place. A small number of fanatics went off and tried, unsuccessfully, to fork Debian in to the failed Devuan distro.
I make no judgement on whether Devuan has failed, I see the same level of activity on their mailing list as usual.
My problem with Devuan is that I don't understand what they're trying to do.
From Jaromil's recent "Devuan @ CCC camp, 15 august" announcement: "Devuan is a fork of Debian which removes its new dependency on systemd. "
But Debian doesn't have a depencency on systemd. So what is the fork for?
systemd is the default init system in Debian Jessie. Think about that. The default. If something is the
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Devuan is an attempt to create a distro that does not have an option for systemd. I find it ironic that in criticizing the lack of choice in other distros, they're creating a distro with a lack of choice.
I expect that as more people get used to/grow up with systemd, it will fall by the wayside and turn into a niche distro. That's cool if it happens--lots of niche distros are still around years later--but it's not likely to be taken seriously in enterprise environments.
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Dude, I dont know WTF your talking about,
I recently have been porting squeeze/wheezy custom SW to jessie, and getting rid of the old 100+ sysV bash init scripts has been wonderful. the service files are now like 9-12 lines long 3 lines of which are [] ini style segementation. 1 is a description and the rest just works. Simple as shit, haven't had a single failure or issue. The more I use systemd the more I like it. Please point out or provide links to the "not so good issues" you mention
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Linus Torvalds likes systemd, and he's OK with it, I'm OK with it. So shut up troll.
I don't use Linux, but it appears to me that you're the actual troll. The poster was making a well-reasoned argument related to the fact that Kali Linux (like Devuan) does not include systemd in its default installation. But instead in engaging in a discussion about his argument, you make an appeal to authority (Linus Torvalds) then command the poster to "shut up". That's the very definition of a troll--you're derailing the logical argument are replacing it with emotional vitriol.
Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. (Score:4, Insightful)
The poster's argument was quite irrelevant and off-topic, because Kali 2.0 does actually use systemd.
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No.
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Kali switched because Debian switched. It's that simple. The OffSec crew is interested in getting tools to run on a base distro so they can focus on the tools and let the upstream distro handle other problems. Since all the work had been done on getting things working with Debian, changing to another distro probably was not viewed as especially desirable (especially since most other distros use or are planning to use systemd anyway).
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This is a distribution that collects numerous security monitoring packages, as well as packages that are typically used for active network and computer penetration testing. The distro makers chose the name "Kali" to draw on the "sinister and powerful" imagery. (not bashing Hindu beliefs, but that is the perception of "Kali" to most western people)
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To break your shit. Kali is the goddess of destruction.
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Its clear you don't pen test for a living. Kali is great one ISO with all the tools for testing you'll ever need. It used to take me a couple of days setting up a pen test machine going and getting tools and individually loading the tools. Plus updating those tools was a pain. With Kali all the tools are right there and updating is just a matter of apt-get update and everything is updated. Also the fact it is built on Debian is great.
Kali is a special purpose distro and not for general use.
For pen test
My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
That was a coy description.
About the Kali Linux Distribution
Kali Linux is an open source project that is maintained and funded by Offensive Security, a provider of world-class information security training and penetration testing services. In addition to Kali Linux, Offensive Security also maintains the Exploit Database and the free online course, Metasploit Unleashed.
Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
This systemd, coder, were no crime.
We would sit down and think which way
To write init scripts our long love's day.
But at my back I always hear
Binary logging hurrying near;
And yonder all before us lie
Security exploits of vast eternity.
And your quaint boxen turn to dust,
And into ashes all my private keys:
The internet's a fine and public place,
But none, I think, should trust there systemds.
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Andrew Marvell wrote the description.
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To understand Kali, you must back track.
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That was a coy description.
About the Kali Linux Distribution
Kali Linux is an open source project that is maintained and funded by Offensive Security, a provider of world-class information security training and penetration testing services. In addition to Kali Linux, Offensive Security also maintains the Exploit Database and the free online course, Metasploit Unleashed.
That was a coy description.
About the Kali Linux Distribution
They used it in a power station
And suffered 'lectrocution
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I run it full time, but I'm not an idiot because I can spell "you".
Please stop seeding! (Score:3)
Why am I seeing a 20Mb/s difference between WAN ingress and LAN egress? Those are all retransmit packets that my stateful firewall is filtering out.
If your connection has massive amounts of bufferbloat, please don't seed. You're DOS'n my connection.
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While I got TCP on bufferbloated connections sending 20Mb/
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New York City 35ms
Atlanta 40ms
Dallas Texas 40ms
Miami 45ms
LA 60ms
London 90ms
France 90ms
Frankfurt 110ms
Heck, New Zealand is only 200ms and under 5ms of jitter
Network Graphs: https://lh3.googleusercontent.... [googleusercontent.com]
DSLReports Bufferbloat 32/16 Test: https://lh3.googleusercontent.... [googleusercontent.com]
DSLReports Jitter Test: https://lh3.googleusercontent.... [googleusercontent.com]
Whatever you do... (Score:4, Insightful)
...whatever you do, don't give us any fucking clues as to what the features of interest might be or why we might be interested in this particular distro.
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...whatever you do, don't give us any fucking clues as to what the features of interest might be or why we might be interested in this particular distro.
They told you in the summary what was important; that it had rolling updates.
But seriously, that it absolutely true. I used to hate companies that insisted on having a mission statement on their websites, but it is something that is essential for the myriad of Linux distros and other open source projects that waste the front page of their websites with the change log. "Great, I know what has changed, now what is the program about?"
In this case, their front page does give a simple explanation of the purpose
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But how useful would it have been to have those three words in the /. summary?
They would have been very useful, because I would have instantly known that this distro wasn't meant for regular desktop users and I would have moved on. But the editorial standards at /. have dropped in the last ten years to the point where I'm losing interest in the site altogether.
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How could you have been reading slashdot for a decade and not know what Kali is? You need to get out of your hole every once in a while.
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How could you have been reading slashdot for a decade and not know what Kali is? You need to get out of your hole every once in a while.
Seriously? Do you know how many distros are out there? It is not one that I have needed to use until now because frankly I don't have the patience to wade through each one once I had found one that worked well enough for me.
Your attitude is similar to those who howl at people who ask questions in forums, telling them to RTFA. You blame people who aren't as interested in Linux as you are. That is the epitome of what is wrong with open source software.
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Seriously? Do you know how many distros are out there? It is not one that I have needed to use until now because frankly I don't have the patience to wade through each one once I had found one that worked well enough for me.
Exactly, and thank you for pointing this out Gadget Guy. Why in the world should I know about some specialized pocket distro that barely anyone else has heard of?
The fact is that I have a life, a wife, a job, a home, and I simply don't have time to suck slashdot's dick all day long, slobbering over every article like it was handed down from on high.
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I've been reading Slashdot since it was Chips & Dips, and I'd never heard of it, either. AC can go suck it.
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True, it wouldn't have cost the editors anything to include a simple parenthetical mention - something like "Kali Linux (the security and penetration testing distro)".
HOWEVER, it isn't completely unreasonable thing for a Slashdot editor to assume someone who has read Slashdot for a while (say, maybe 10 ye
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I think perhaps your definition of "just another OLD guy" might not match that of people who are, in fact, old guys. I really can't imagine someone with a 7 digit Slashdot number thinking they are "old".
How old do I have to be to fit your arbitrary and meaningless criteria? News Flash: my slashdot ID doesn't mean jack shit to me or anyone else, nor is "Old Guy" a reference to anything other than my age.
True, it wouldn't have cost the editors anything to include a simple parenthetical mention - something like "Kali Linux (the security and penetration testing distro)".
Exactly, but don't let that stop you from spinning more nonsense about how I "should" know this or that or some craptastic little pocket distro that practically no one has ever heard of. Take your elitist geek chest-thumping bullshit and go bother someone who cares.
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I think he got off of your lawn. Here, have a beer.
Kali is a very specific distro used for attacking other machines for weaknesses. If you don't know how to use it, don't. Take a course where they explain it and show you how to use it. Not cheap, however it's worth it. It'll open your eyes really wide. I know I have over 30 years of experience, I've broken many machines in the past. They surprised even me. I had work to do.
I've been too hard on Gnome 3 (Score:2)
Due to numerous issues with the latest release of KDE as delivered with Ubuntu 15.04, I switched to Gnome 3 after close to a decade of relying on KDE for my desktop. I must admit I've been too hard on Gnome 3 over the years. Although it is different and not intuitive, I did figure out how to do what I needed to do within a day, and am now quite comfortable with it.
Perhaps most important on an older system like mine, I find it is much more responsive than the latest releases of KDE.
The thing that used
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vtwm, baby, vtwm. Stable since.... dear lord, it came out in 1990. It's probably older than most voting Libertarians.
Unsigned software updates? (Score:2)
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They're signed. Kali even ran into an expired certificate not too long ago that caused a bunch of warning messages and errors. Easily fixed with a single line, or avoided if one was updating regularly, but still present for enough people.
Don't tell me what it's GOT, say what I can *do* (Score:2)
The release claims a long list of changes: new versions of this and that.
But nowhere on the release page does it make any mention of what that means to the end user. If I run this, or upgrade from release 1, what will I be able to do, that I couldn't do before?. I don't care about features and versions or rolling this-that-or-the-other. What I need to know is why should I spent time and effort getting it, installing it and using it?
Since the announcement makes no mention, it would not be unreasonable to
Irony (Score:3)
For a distribution presumably targeted at security professionals it is rather ironic that when I try to look a their homepage I get the following:
Javascript is required. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page.
I have to make myself vulnerable before I am "allowed" to see their homepage? Heh. Nice try.
What are your thoughts and comments? (Score:1)
Ok, here ya go.
Almost skipped right over this one. What's likely to be special about 'yet another Linux distro'?
"...together which[with] an assortment of interesting new features."
Ok, I'll bite. Is there actually something unique here?
"Most importantly, Kali is now a rolling distribution, using Debian..."
A sensible choice. Why re-invent wheels? It seems like almost everything is based on Debian. I'm not exactly getting a good feeling that there is going to be something unique here. I almost quit reading