Linus Torvalds Says Linux Can Move On Without Him 323
pacopico writes: In a typically blunt interview, Linus Torvalds has said for the first time that if he were to die, Linux could safely continue on its own. Bloomberg has the report, which includes a video with Torvalds at his home office. Torvalds insists that people like Greg Kroah-Hartman have taken over huge parts of the day-to-day work maintaining Linux and that they've built up enough trust to be respected. This all comes as Torvalds has been irking more and more people with his aggressive attitude. The line between "blunt" and "aggressive" is one that you probably get to skirt a lot, when you (in the words of the Bloomberg reporter) "may be the most influential individual economic force of the past 20 years."
Were to die? (Score:5, Informative)
if he were to die
I pretty much thought that death was the only thing guaranteed in life. Except for taxes, obviously.
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if he were to die
I pretty much thought that death was the only thing guaranteed in life. Except for taxes, obviously.
Life is a terminal illness, with no cure.
Re:Were to die? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Were to die? (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Who else is qualified? I wouldn't trust 99% of software people to make decisions. Linux is good and successful because of Linus. Full stop. He is worth 10,000 Slowaris or AIX engineers.
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Yeah i have been wondering about GregKH lately.
He may have produced some excellent code over the years and done a nice job maintaining stable kernel releases. but as of late he seems to have gotten very "one true way"-ish.
Not only the snark regarding maintaining a independent udev, but also the pushing of kdbus into the kernel when the gains are at best questionable.
As best i can tell the forces in the background pushing to get kdbus accepted are the car manufacturers and others wanting to use Linux in comm
Re:speaking as an engineer, it happens. (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean now, if Linus goes on a trip, he either has to work on the release while on vacation, or delay it till he gets back. Seems like a large burden for one person to bear.
But it doesn't have to be that way. If Linus is on vacation, and something gets delayed for a week or two, so what? If Linus was in a coma for 3 months, so what? It's not the end of the world. It's not like he has to produce a new build or approve a new patch every 47 seconds to keep the world from exploding.
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I mean now, if Linus goes on a trip, he either has to work on the release while on vacation, or delay it till he gets back. Seems like a large burden for one person to bear.
But it doesn't have to be that way. If Linus is on vacation, and something gets delayed for a week or two, so what? If Linus was in a coma for 3 months, so what? It's not the end of the world. It's not like he has to produce a new build or approve a new patch every 47 seconds to keep the world from exploding.
Agreed. But delaying the work doesn't make it go away. It will be there when he gets back, which means more work to do for the release, or features get delayed. Decentralizing would ensure the project can move forward, regardless of Linus's schedule.
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"It's not like he has to produce a new build or approve a new patch every 47 seconds to keep the world from exploding."
BLASPHEMY!!! You can expect the inquisitors to arrive shortly.
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It's not like he has to produce a new build or approve a new patch every 47 seconds to keep the world from exploding.
Is this the next season of 24?
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Re:speaking as an engineer, it happens. (Score:5, Informative)
It seems strange to me that with all the decentralization in software (ex. git) that Linus remains the sole gatekeeper for what goes or doesn't go in the kernel. Splitting up the responsibility seems like it would be infinitely more logical.
It is already largely decentralized. There is a relatively fixed set of subsystem maintainers, which collect patches and merge from contributors. Then there are top figures like Greg and Linus, and the individual Linux distributions which maintain their own kernels by merging across. All Linus really does (well, he probably does more) is take and drop patches and every other week declare a certain merge set a version. Anyone can do that for their own kernel, but the central naming makes it "Linux" and focussed (e.g. for bug reporting).
That's at least my understanding.
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Because it is still his project, but more importantly it is his name and reputation associated with it.
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Linus remains the sole gatekeeper for what goes or doesn't go in the kernel
He isn't.
You're free to release your kernel with whatever patches you want to approve or reject just as much as Linus can.
In fact - just about every major distro works that way - applying not necessarily the exact same set of patches that Linus does.
Of course many people trust Linus, so most distros follow him pretty closely.
But that's because people trust him - not that he's some magical "Gatekeeper".
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Splitting up the responsibility seems like it would be infinitely more logical.
It seems to have escaped a lot of people here that regardless of what they think about his personality, he has done a great job of maintaining that kernel. I doubt most others have quite the same aptitude.
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Linus doesn't seem to be setting the direction of the Kernel.
As long as the commit isn't total crap and is something that belongs in a kernel, and is submitted during a merge window, he will merge it. At least, that is how I view it as an outsider.
The Linux kernel is mostly written by huge corporations with divergent interests. There is no way Linus can herd them.
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Honestly, it seems that you do not understand the model here. There actually are many competing versions of the kernel. Everyone voluntarily chooses to use the version that Linus has "blessed" but at any time, someone could, and some do, choose to use a different version "blessed" by someone else.
In short, there is nobody forcing anyone to use the Linus version. Everyone who chooses to do so, does so of their own free will. If Linus were to die tomorrow, there would be some confusion as some would choose on
Re:speaking as an engineer, it happens. (Score:4, Funny)
Cultivate a hobby. For me i moved into management as one is apt to do, and learned how to make soap.
Poster is forgetting the first rule.
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Don't drop the soap?
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Who is irked? And one missed opportunity. (Score:2, Interesting)
Who is irked? People trying to dump tons of garbage into the mailing lists?
The goal of linus should be to encourage coders to contribute to Linux. Could he do better? I'm sure. But he has done amazingly well so far (service / cloud side / aws / even android had a basis in linux) - linux is huge.
The one BIG missed opportunity in Linux though I think was around wakelocks. That would have really helped connect the google kernel team into development. That's led to a real fork with android and in the long run
His writings will be studied. Linus is legend. (Score:5, Informative)
Linus has stuff online from the early nineties forward, and, to be perfectly honest, any opinion piece of his is 1000% amazing. I've never tried to search it all out and read it over coffee or anything, but slashdotters linking to anything he's ever said is one of my absolute favorite things about this place.
The BEST ones are where he's polite to someone who claims to know The True Path. The other amazing ones include the people who jump around screaming how Intel is about to die off and RISC will demolish CISC and all these other See The Future Guys. Basically, the standard crew of Tech Pope and his friend, the Tech Oracle... but we can view their ludicrous claims in the light of history. So you get to see Linus talk, and be nice, and they ramp up their crap to browbeat him, and eventually he just fucking OWNS them, drops the mic... and a 1-2 decades later we can be like "oh, looks like Linus was right to be polite at first, right to stick to his guns, right to switch gears from politeness, and right about all of that".
Linus will ultimately be legend.
It is a joke that there isn't an HBO series about him already :P
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It is a joke that there isn't an HBO series about him already :P
I've seen pictures of Linus, and I've seen HBO ... Not sure I'd enjoy the intersection of Linus Torvalds and Gratuitous Boobs.
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He might enjoy that intersection though. I know I would.
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It is a joke that there isn't an HBO series about him already :P
I've seen pictures of Linus, and I've seen HBO ... Not sure I'd enjoy the intersection of Linus Torvalds and Gratuitous Boobs.
It wouldn't be Linus - it would be someone like Brad Pitt or Mark Wahlberg. Of course, the actor would wear glasses to take on a "nerd" persona.
"irking more and more people" (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean the butthurt from the poetterix crew for getting flak for their own poor attitude, crap code, and generally poor disposition?
I think we need Linus a bit more to keep a lid on these... less than stellarly performing artifacts sticking in the community's craw.
The second Torvalds dies (Score:2)
Most of the time he is right. (Score:3)
Honestly being blunt and aggressive is how you don't end up with a steaming pile of crap.
Being all wishy washy and nice is not how you get things done, you crush egos mercilessly when you have facts in hand.
I for one welcome... (Score:5, Funny)
When Linus has been piped into the great dev-null in the sky, I for one will welcome Lennart Poettering as the new Emperor of Linux. We'll call it Lenux!
What, too early to start a flame war?
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But that one's trademarked. You'll be hearing from Atlassian's lawyers.
SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:4, Insightful)
This all comes as Torvalds has been irking more and more people with his aggressive attitude.
Who?
Honest to god, I'm asking: Which people?
Are these 'people' software engineers contributing to the kernel? Are these 'people' being directly addressed and directly insulted by Linus? Are these 'people' attempting to submit subpar code to the kernel?
Or are these who are more interested in 'safe spaces' in open source communities? Are these 'people' acting outraged because of their perception of what other people think about Linus says?
I am disturbed by this brewing character assassination campaign targeted at Linus because he says things that might possibly hurt a person's feelings. Shame on the submitter (pacopico) for throwing around an accusation as if it's fact.
We've been down this road for, what, 20 years? We know by now that if Linus says something mean, it's because a person has done or said something incompetent. The 'fix' is not for Linus to change his tone; the fix is for the recipient of the insult to not be incompetent.
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Well - maybe he irks some of us, because he's not aggressive enough? There should be a little drama in a charismatic leader's life, shouldn't there? How 'bout an article about Linus kicking some sorry assed developer down three flights of stairs, and out the door? That would be cool. Then we could create a video game, titled "Kick the lame developer's ass". Or something like that.
Or, I could just be experimenting with my new sarcasm font . . . .
Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't try to kid us. In all likelihood you are a worthless nobody that has no ability to touch the kernel code anyways. You are most certainly an "acceptable loss". You simply don't matter here.
That's the key thing here. What's an acceptable loss? What's a good tradeoff?
In this regard, project management is very much governed by the same concerns that the engineering is.
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IMHO I would have something to add, but I don't know because I've not even considered trying for the afore mentioned reason. But, who knows? I could be some nut case, sitting in my underwear in the basement of my mom's house who just gets his jollies posting to Slashdot...
My point is that I'm not even tempted to try and work with Linus Travois. There is just too much drama when he decides to go off on somebody. Plus, I'm too much like Travois in my own way. I don't suffer fools who in my estimation are
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That's a bad assumption.
I work with people like that from time to time. I charge extra for the aggravation and nod and smile. Not gonna do it for free though. Just sayin'.
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There is more to it than being technically capable.
If you want to submit a change and aren't able to confidently able to articulate the how and why of it you are going to waste a lot of peoples time, even if the change is technically correct.
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Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:4, Interesting)
There is more to it than being technically capable. If you want to submit a change and aren't able to confidently able to articulate the how and why of it you are going to waste a lot of peoples time, even if the change is technically correct.
I've mentioned this on here before but: When 2.11 kernel came out, somebody put in a sleep with a spinlock in an obscure part of the USB HID driver. I submitted a patch, which was just to revert that one section back to how it was in the previous kernel (which was just without the sleep) and it was rejected multiple times. It was obviously incorrect, but it was not until the 2.17 kernel that one of the mainstream developers submitted the exact same diff that it got fixed. I've never tried to make a contribution to the kernel since. Even when you're reverting a change that is obviously wrong, they won't accept your diff.
Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Software engineers like me who won't touch the kernel with a 10' poll because I don't need the aggravation of dealing with him.
You shouldn't worry about it. From everything I've seen, he's a lot more sympathetic to new contributors making mistakes than he is to old-timers who should know better. It's fair and reasonable to hold them to a higher standard, and that seems to be exactly what he does.
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Oh I don't worry in the least, Linus seems to have more than enough people willing to put up with him and help... It's just a thought experiment to play the what if game.. What if Linus wasn't so abrasive? Who can say for sure things would be better or worse? I think the chances are that it might be a bit better in some ways, but who's to say that some less technically capable yahoo wouldn't have ended up being in charge because they where more aggressive....
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Software engineers like me who won't touch the kernel with a 10' poll because I don't need the aggravation of dealing with him.
That's a pile of character assassination dogsiht.
1. I wrote a few patches to Linux kernel and submitted one. The submission ended up fixing a problem. But the final patch was modified by one of the maintainers using API I as not familiar with. His patch was much better.
2. NO ONE called me a "noob" or was agressive in any way shape or form. But the problem area that existed for years, was fixed in a matter of few days. And then later it was improved overall.
3. I submitted my patch to both networking and main
Can linux survive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes but only if they get rid of Poettering and his crew first.
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In some sense, systemd is sort of a hacked-together wrapper around the kernel. Poettering probably also believes his contribution is better than that of Linus. Systemd is really the most stupid and engineering-wise most incompetent Linux thing, ever. And that takes some doing.
Stop sugarcoating it... (Score:2, Insightful)
Linus' attitude is not 'aggressive.' It's completely unprofessional and undignified. The community will be better off without him.
We need more people like him... (Score:5, Insightful)
... For all he is... including his bluntness which bruises the precious egos of the special snowflakes. Sometimes you need to be able to call someone a moron. There are too many of them to waste any more time on them than that.
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Yes... but that assumes intention was to say "respectfully we will not engage in that project" and instead due to incompetence someone calls another person a moron when what they MEANT to say what your polite platitude.
Allow me to blow your mind like raspberry jam all over the walls... what if you WANT to express that another member of the community is incompetent, foolish, and unworthy of the respect, time, or even common courtesy of the community?
Can you even deal with that?
Because any society has ways of
Re:We need more people like him... (Score:4)
There are people who need a good kick in the ass now and then and will respond if given one. There are others who need to be handled differently yet are still valuable members of the team. You can denigrate them by calling them snowflakes or you can learn how to deal with them effectively. A good leader can adjust their style as needed.
There are a lot of people who won't process anything said after being called a "fucktard" and will go into defensive mode. Generally what follows is not at all productive.
I have no personal experience with Linus but have worked with several people that have had a "blunt" way of dealing with incompetence and dissent. As a means of dealing with incompetence it is one thing, but as a means of dealing with dissent it is quite another. It's a bullying tactic and discourages disagreement. If you're always right, or right often enough, you can get away with it. But it also has the effect of quieting people that should really be listened to.
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You can get far by being an asshole if you're an asshole that's right. Most everyone gets it wrong at some point though and after awhile a lot of these people get trapped in their own reality distortion field.
"Blunt" vs "Aggressive" (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder: would the same people that advocated the "calling females 'bossy' = sexist" view use consistent logic and assert that calling males "aggressive" is code for "I'm basically unable to defend my own position, am losing the argument, and therefore must apply guile and ad hominem attacks to stand my ground?" Be honest, now.
Is how someone interprets your criticism of their work defined by how much face they stand to lose if they're wrong, regardless of whether the criticism is grounded in facts and experience?
Kudos for an accurate submission (Score:2)
1) Linus Torvald's death is imminent.
2) Linus says he's going to kill himself.
3) Linux says Linux is doomed once he dies.
Who's in charge? (Score:2)
My understanding is that Linus is still very much the head of the Linux kernel as a project, so what happens to the project management after he's gone? Greg Kroah-Hartman might be a great right hand man but I don't know if he has the political standing or history to step in as the benevolent dictator of a project critical to multiple multi-billion dollar companies.
Do they put in place a Debian-like foundation, or something like Eclipse.org where it's essentially directed by the major distributions.
Maybe the
Linus hasn't changed (Score:2)
He's always been aggressive and blunt. He's "irking more and more people" because those people want to take away what Linus has and he's not about to let them.
greg k-h is a shill (Score:3, Interesting)
Linus is amazing in his transparency (Score:4, Insightful)
You always know what he thinks.
Put the cards on the table, figure out which ones are good. Lather, rinse, repeat.
A smart man wants to know when he is wrong.
Linus Torvalds in his own words .. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Interesting)
And Steve's personality was also NOT easy to deal with.
or describe in polite terms.
You don't get to be a leader, by being a nice guy in the commitee.
You have to have a vision to blaze a path to it, and be flexible enough to adapt with the detours.
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
The one disadvantage about quiet leadership is that you will much less talked and written about. Or maybe that's an advantage...
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Interesting)
There are six basic styles of leadership. As you point out, coerciveness can be effective, for some people. Personally - I'd rather lose my job than to work for a coercive person. A Steve Jobs could offer me more money in a year than I've made in my entire life, and I'd turn his ass down because I can't work like that.
Torvalds doesn't strike me as a coercive leader. He seems more like an authoritarian. His authoritarianism is mixed in with a little pacesetting, but he's basically authoritarian.
People commonly dislike both authoritarians and coercive leaders, so they confuse the two. After a course in leadership, you understand that the two types of assholes are very distinct from each other.
And, yeah, I'm an asshole too. I'm an authoritarian, tempered with a coaching approach.
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The list of six styles I could find (wikipedia, of course) doesn't mention coercive. Do you have a pointer to a different list?
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Tim Cook.
Gabe Newell.
Larry Page.
Mark Zuckerberg.
Marc Andreesen.
Mark Benioff.
Jen-Husng Hwang.
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Well, there's certainly few or no reports about them being verbally abusing or mean towards people. Note that a person can be blunt without being mean. Mean people tend to make things personal. That doesn't mean that these individuals don't demand quality.
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Jesus
Buddha
Ghandi
-- ... Adults cooperate, children compete.
This attitude of might make right is for children
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You don't get to be a leader, by being a nice guy in the commitee
I'm convinced that committees are the death of real leadership. A real leader takes advice and makes decisions decisively. Best leaders always have detractors, usually weak people who want a committee to decide things, after all who wants to follow a dictator? It is much easier to put the blame on a good leader than it is to blame a committee.
And Committees tend to make "safe" decisions, but are just as wrong (if not more so) than a strong leader. A real leader can see when things aren't going well, and mak
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Funny)
None of us are as dumb as all of us./a
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Some of us are exceptional, however. Your name is missing an 'r' and you left your end anchor just dangling out there, so...
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
The next best is a leader who is loved and praised.
Next comes the one who is feared.
The worst one is the leader that is despised
The best leaders value their words, and use them sparingly.
When they have accomplished their task,
the people say, “Amazing!
We did it, all by ourselves!”
- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
Re:Well, yes... (Score:5, Insightful)
> You don't get to be a leader, by being a nice guy in the commitee.
Sure you do. It's just *harder* to do it that way. That's why most leaders are pricks.
Because it's hard to be nice AND lead.
But it's easy to lead and be a prick.
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Yeah, my band director in high school was pretty much a dick sometimes and had a reputation for being difficult to deal with.
We also won all but one of the 10 or so contests that we entered in my first year in marching band, getting 2nd place in the one where we didn't get 1st place. That included winning the state championship in our class.
These two facts are not unrelated.
Part of the reason that Linux exists and is so successful is Linus' personality and work ethic. I don't think he's out to make new fr
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And Steve's personality was also NOT easy to deal with. or describe in polite terms.
You don't get to be a leader, by being a nice guy in the commitee.
Bullshit. People are people, and some are fucking pricks. Some are not.
Once upon a time, I had your prejudice, believeing that the key to success was being an almost pathological prick.
Then I met people who were on the food chain way above those I based my opinion on - and they were almost universally decent folk.
People like Jobs did not get where they were because they were pricks. Pricks are everywhere, and some of them living under bridges.
Jobs had a pretty precise vision, and got where he got to in spite of his abrasiveness, not because of it.
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I am not saying Torvalds is "most influential individual economic force of the past 20 years.", but I am struggling to think of one person who is *definitely* more influential.
Who's on your easy list of 20 people? I am very curious.
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If you craft your definition of "most influential individual economic force" carefully, then yes, Linus can qualify.
But consider that without Richard Stallman and the GPL, linux wouldn't have been what it is now.
And to stay in the tech world, how about Bill Gates or Steve Jobs.
And political figures like Vladimir Putin.
Or maybe Osama bin Laden, just look at how much has changed since 9/11.
But even though it was in 1983 so that it doesn't qualify, Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov was perhaps the most influential
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I think all those people are important, but if I had to pick one name ou of that list as the single most influential, I'd probably still have to go with Linus.
I feel like Bill Gates/Steve Jobs and Microsoft/Apple products, have certainly been very popular and made lots of money, I feel like their contributions where ultimately more to their own bottom line than to society as a whole. Linus' contribution was for everyone, and I feel to a large extent, made the contributions of proprietary software as a whol
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I can name 20 (or 50, or maybe 100) people with far more economic influence in the last 20 years than this douchebag.
Yet somehow you could not type one name here...
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Most of those are only mildly influential in local (American spheres). Seriously... what did Rick Perry or Chris Christy ever do that affected the lives of people in Turkey? In Austria? In Australia?
Even Bernake, Greenspan, sure some fairly wild gyrations in the stockmarket but its debatable how much impact they personally REALLY had on it; and billions of people are really only tangentially affected by it.
Hell, I'm a home owner in north america with mortgage; and although its surely impacted my mortgage r
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But each and every one has had more economic impact than Linus Travois, which was the original question I was responding too. Also, these are just the USA names off the top of my head, in no order of importance. I'm sure there are more important people from around the world.
Rick Perry and Chris Christy both managed states with large economies. Rick Perry was governor of Texas which would be on the top 10 list of countries if it was still an independent country, Christy is the governor of Jew Jersey, which
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Rick Perry and Chris Christy both managed states with large economies.
But they didn't create those economies. They were there when they got there. All they did was steer them for a few years. If Rick Perry hadn't run and been elected Governor, someone else would have been.
Most of the economy churns along entirely with or without him.
The rest of the elected officials, and the bureaucracy would have been the same. Therefore most of the policy decisions would have mostly been exactly the same if someone else had been elected.
At best Rick Perry put his personal touches on a few t
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You really think that? Linux runs in practically all data-centers globally, saving trillions of dollars world-wide for business annually. It powers most devices, including a very popular type of mobile phone, used by billions, and you're comparing that to a president of the United States, or even worse, a governor of just one state? These are career politicians that have only a marginal influence on an economy that largely drives itself. Politicians are simply not that influential. Of your list, only Bill
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If you're claiming that Torvalds had more economic impact than Greenspan, Bernanke or Yellen, you, quite frankly are out of touch.
You are missing my point.
Torvalds and his Linux project planted a seed that otherwise might not have existed at all. The ramifications of that seed have been felt the world over.
Greenspan et al; someone was going to be sitting in his chair, doing his job. If it wasn't Greenspan, it would have been someone else. If it had been someone else it would have been someone else working within the same political landscape, with the same goals, and they would have been picked and vetted for the job by the same commit
Re:Most influential individual economic force... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ridiculous.
Remove any of the people on your list (except maybe Elon Musk, and that remains to be seen), and things would've just been business as usual with a different person in the seat.
Linus has made an incalculable change to the landscape. We are in a different world because of him.
Disclaimer: I am not a Linux zealot. Windows at home, Mac at work, iPhone in my pocket. But credit where it's due, for fuck's sake.
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GNU Open source is like a religion.
And RMS is our Moses, a smelly goat herder that bought the commandments down from the mountain.
Then delivered the message to the Pharaoh.
the plagues (?)
boot sector viruses
file infections
macro viruses
email attachments
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of course it's an over simplification.
But, with my non-humorous hat on, I would say MICROSOFT is the biggest problem on the internet.
They have made the most insecure operating system and become the most popular by being the cheapest.
Then they set most of the default options to the least secure choice.
That coupled with the relative ignorance of the general population (including too much of IT management) leads to the false image of Microsoft being a good software choice.
I like unix in all it's flavors. Modul
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Huh? The GPL makes explicit use of both capitalism and copyright law.
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Huh? The GPL makes explicit use of both capitalism and copyright law.
Stop with the actual facts, you are confusing people who have already made up their minds... It's perception that rules the day (and what gets politicians elected, but that's another thread. )
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Is the article inaccurate? Pushing some sort of evil agenda?
If it is, then tell us how. And if not, then why should we care about your personal vendetta against the organization?
Re:"Bloomberg has the report" (Score:5, Insightful)
You haven't answered his first question - is the article accurate or not?
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Name one media outlet that isn't controlled. I don't think it is possible.
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There is still a chance he might design an artificial brain to upload his consciousness to.
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We all know he will die one day. The question is whether he will die before or after the Linux kernel becomes self-aware and can maintain itself.
Re:Linusfactor (Score:5, Insightful)
I have never read anything where Linus is acting inappropriately. Sure he likes to rant, but when he is wrong, he will admit it.
He is even kind to clueless newbies who try to lecture him on the "evils" of goto on LKML.
His best rants are condemning breaking user space and hurting usability. But for every post that makes the news, there are at least 1000 that don't, because Linus isn't some rabid douche.
The kernel gets has so many contributors from around the world that he has to draw the line in a very explicit manner else people like Kay Sievers will keep submitting broken patches.
If anything he is usually pretty restrained, compared to project managers of big companies. The only difference is that development of the Linux kernel is in full public view.
Re: (Score:2)
can you provide a pointer to that quote?