Spain's Extremadura Starts Move To GNU/Linux, Open Source 182
jrepin writes "The government of Spain's autonomous region of Extremadura has begun the switch to open source of it desktop PCs. The government expects the majority of its 40,000 PCs to be migrated this year, the region's CIO Theodomir Cayetano announced on 18 April. Extremadura estimates that the move to open source will help save 30 million euro per year. Extremadura in 2012 completed the inventory of all the software applications and computers used by its civil servants. It also tailored a Linux distribution, Sysgobex, to meet the majority of requirements of government tasks. It has already migrated to open source some 150 PCs at several ministries, including those for Development, Culture and Employment."
sometimes it takes a crisis (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Europe has been adapting Linux.... (Score:2)
This is old news - in these pages itself, the first time they started on it was 2006 [slashdot.org], and last year, too, there was another story [slashdot.org] on their experiment here. Extremadura, Munich and Portugal happen to be pretty unique/ahead in this regard - do a search on their stories over this experiment. As long as they are doing it for long term independence from software vendors, they're on the right track - as opposed to doing it due to their 'zero budgets', since they've obviously not factored in costs of training an
Re:Europe has been adapting Linux.... (Score:5, Informative)
This is old news - in these pages itself, the first time they started on it was 2006 [slashdot.org], and last year, too, there was another story [slashdot.org] on their experiment here. Extremadura, Munich and Portugal happen to be pretty unique/ahead in this regard - do a search on their stories over this experiment.
Except the current Portuguese government decided to start replacing some of the machines running GNU/Linux with Windows. There were even some problems in the transition of the government website infrastructure, because the new Microsoft solution could not serve as much client requests as the previous Linux-based one, leading to a massive downtime which lasted weeks [1].
I don't want to speculate but most probably the new team assigned to manage the government website did only have knowledge on Microsoft technologies, so the old previous system had to go.... This is a shame because they did it during an Economical crisis, wasting money on Windows server license keys and all other associated costs which they did not have before (since it was already running Linux).
[1] http://exameinformatica.sapo.pt/web/exameinformatica/noticias/internet/2012-04-04-sistema-de-redundancia-do-portal-do-governo-nao-funcionou;jsessionid=7AE120CAF45F6309EC0DB51D0D8E70D5 [exameinformatica.sapo.pt]
Re: (Score:2)
This idea of "we only know Windows" is probably a big reason Windows keeps surviving. I see this in IT departments all the time where everyone wants to hire replaceable units (ie, employees that are easily replaced with cheaper models). A small company starts out with a flexible IT team, but then over time as the company grows the IT staff grows also and also changes personality, ending up as a Microsoft advocacy group. SharePoint servers start popping up, the number of IT members who can fix the linux o
Re: (Score:2)
Actually Extremadura did not need the crisis for this. It has had its own distro since about 2001 (called Linex). It was one of the first state sponsored distros out there. I don't know what the state of the migration was, but it is not a new initiative. They do seem to have created a new distro though. I'll have to see how it differs from Linex. It's probably more about completing the migration that had started some time back and would have been delayed by some leftover compatibility issues.
The crisis cert
Re: (Score:2)
Actually Extremadura did not need the crisis for this specific endeavour. Maybe only to complete the migration. Extremadura has had its own distro since the early 2000s (called Linex). It was one of the first state sponsored distros out there. I don't know what the state of the migration was before this latest push, but it is certainly not a new initiative. They do seem to have created a new distro though. I'll have to see how it differs from Linex.
The crisis certainly did provide an additional motivation t
Re:sometimes it takes a crisis (Score:4, Insightful)
Because change, even beneficial change, has a threshold of inertia to overcome.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for your opinion, TrollstonButtersbean, but your point isn't clear to me yet. Perhaps you'd like to explain further?
Re:sometimes it takes a crisis (Score:4, Interesting)
I work for a multinational company, whose open source (GPL) software product is ubiquitous, and whose customers apparently are saying that you're wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
"i.e. run it as a server and the GPL claouse of distrubtion doesn't apply".
Now you're trolling. Or dumb as a bag of rocks. I'm betting on the former, though.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Then they don't have any say to support either GPL or non-GPL. A user needs no source code afterall.
Re: (Score:2)
Hire anyone you want to make improvements (Score:3)
A user needs no source code afterall.
Here's how I explain it to people: "Free software" comes with the blueprints so that you can hire anyone you want to make improvements.
Re: (Score:2)
A user needs no source code afterall.
Here's how I explain it to people: "Free software" comes with the blueprints so that you can hire anyone you want to make improvements.
True, but for most business people, the philosophical difference between paying someone to customise open source software and paying someont to customise proprietary software is a meaningless one.
Having software blueprints is only really relevant if my business is selling software or software services such as support. If I'm a widget manufacturer, I probably don't care as long as the software is supported somehow.
Re: (Score:2)
If you distribute someone else's work, you are bound by their license. It's not your work you are distributing.
It's called copyright. Remind me again why it's OK for software but not movies or music? I thought it was all just digital information which can be freely copied?
Re: (Score:2)
Or copyright is valid, licenses apply, and the GPL allows you a lot more freedom than the normal copyright. Then why complain about a perceived lack of freedom?
EOL (Score:2)
If I'm a widget manufacturer, I probably don't care as long as the software is supported somehow.
With free software, you can still buy support even after the original publisher has discontinued support.
Re: (Score:2)
With free software, you can still buy support even after the original publisher has discontinued support.
And unless you're a business it's probably going to be prohibitively expensive.
Re: (Score:2)
SaaS is permitted under all free and/or open source licenses.
The code on the server need not be shared with GPLv2 or GPLv3, but only with the Affero gplv3. I'm not a big fan of it, but everybody gets to use the license they like.
IIRC, what Linus didn't like about gplv3 was the anti-Tivoization language. (Background: Tivo made Linux-based set-top boxes, and published all source code as per the GPLv2. However, they made the boxes so they would only run code signed by Tivo, so you couldn't take a Tivo,
TiVoization (Score:3)
Actually, the deal w/ TiVo was that they locked down the flash memory device that stored the code, even though it was published as per the GPLv2. Issue that RMS had was that Freedom 3 of GNU - the 'right' to improve the program i.e. change it, was prevented by TiVo as a result, even though the GPL itself was not violated. TiVo had a good reason to do that - had they left it open, anyone could have re-coded it so that the output went not just to the TV screen, but also to, say, an mp4 or a divx file, which
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure RMS would like all code to be AGPL licensed since in his mind locking the code up as a service is just another loophole that keep end users away from the four freedoms. He's also smart enough to know that would cause mass abandonment of the GPL license so instead offers it as an alternative.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Except that in practice, there is no accountability. You can pay for a support contract and then be denied when you actually call up for support. If you want a new feature or a bug fixed you're at the mercy of the proprietary vendor to implement it (good luck if you're a tiny customer with no appreciable financial benefit to the other party). If it's open source you can third parties to fix it, or fix it yourself, or hunt around for fixes already in place done by others.
Re: (Score:3)
With responsibility comes accountability, and free and open source cannot offer this.
A coward's response. If you want to accept shitty results and solutions just because you can point the finger at someone else when it breaks, then you really don't have much of a personality or drive for getting things done, period. In other words, it makes you worthless from a technologist's standpoint.
For those with a background in economics, I shall allow you to pencil in the blanks.
Go right ahead... because economists make such great technologists. /s
It isn't that open source is "wrong", it just isn't "right". Not yet it isn't ...
I would much rather have knowledgeable people working for me, with the proper tools (open source if they must be) and a genuine interest
Re: (Score:2)
A movement to Windows8 will be far more painful than a move to Linux, because new hardware will be needed not that Win8 wont run on the old CPU, but ya cant get no device drivers!!!!
Its not guns that shoots peoples feet, its Americans, that shoots their own feet!
Six-year-old drivers (Score:2)
A movement to Windows8 will be far more painful than a move to Linux, because new hardware will be needed not that Win8 wont run on the old CPU, but ya cant get no device drivers!!!!
Windows 8 uses the same driver model as Windows Vista. If a piece of PC hardware was made in the past six years, it has more than likely has Vista drivers. Or are you referring to pre-2007 hardware with only XP drivers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Don't forget that the government of Extremadura is not going into this blindly. They've had their own distro (Linex) since the early 2000s, and already converted a number of computers and basically Linuxified their schools. They have a decade of experience to draw on and probably have estimated the cost of migration (or not migrating) based on it.
And I would agree with you, I have old crap hardware running Linux and can still run the latest software on it (slowly). I get the latest security patches, but if
web applications (Score:5, Insightful)
Thats nice I still don't understand why my tax's are spent on OS license only for the users to login to web applications
Linux supports kerberos so authentication is not a problem its down to choices and management
what would be interesting would be what applications they need to run... is there a list somewhere ?
regards
John Jones
Re: (Score:2)
Protip: In Firefox, select test, then right-click abd choose "Search Google for ...".
In any case, it's either a type of train engine or the region where a river meets the sea (also, an inhabitant of such a region). In the latter sense, "Deltic" is sometimes (especially in the USA) used to refer specifically to the Mississippi Delta or the inhabitants thereof.
Given the relative level of literacy in that region, I'd say the poster intended the former.
Re: (Score:2)
TEXT, not TEST, dammit.
Re: (Score:2)
In case somebody doesn't get the joke, or thinks I'm trolling--I should point out that I spent a good part of my childhood in Baton Rouge. :)
Re: (Score:2)
actually I'm refering to being dyslexic, as such not being able to spell dyslexia. google does not have all the answers, but good try...
Re: (Score:2)
actually I'm refering to being dyslexic, as such not being able to spell dyslexia. google does not have all the answers, but good try...
I don't want to be flippant, but how come you managed to spell dyslexic and dyslexia correctly here?
Re:web applications (Score:5, Funny)
What is a deltic?
It's when your hand hovers uncontrollably over the "Del" key.
I blame... (Score:3, Funny)
Hardly an issue these days (Score:4, Insightful)
With so much stuff running remotely through web interfaces, operating systems matter very little.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
They need to beef up maintenance revenue by building the bugs in to the initial design.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, on this one, Windows does have the advantage, since in LibreOffice, the apps are good for just the basic things. On the Word app, I'll grant that they're probably at par, but in the spreadsheet, Excel is way ahead of the LO spreadsheet in terms of what it can do. People don't use spreadsheets to just make tables - they also use them to create pivot table based reports, charts and so on, and in this aspect, Excel has so many features tagged on that some even use it as a mini database. The LO spr
Re: (Score:3)
This is true, but it's not something to be encouraged.
Re: (Score:2)
No, one could just buy readily available off the shelf software, starting w/ Office, and many more. And more importantly, there are a gazillion specialized software titles for each niche in Windows that's just not there in anything else - be it OS-X, Linux or Unix. Customizing and installing applications is not what people need to be hired for - they need to be hired for maintaining them overall. But one could just as easily buy Microsoft services. But my post was about the maintenance of the OS. With
Re: (Score:2)
Still PCs though? (Score:2)
I thought we were post-PC! Where are the tablets that are supposedly taking over the world?
Re: (Score:2)
Oh great, this is just what we need (Score:2)
Yet another Linux distro.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
So that they control their own destiny. Rather than pay gobs of money to RHEL or Canonical, they could hire their own (preferably local) software developers (thereby providing jobs, which is a big vote getter) and have them do exactly what they need from their own IT. In case of mainland Europe, localization would be a big plus, and then other customized applications that the governments would need, they could pay those people to write. Yeah, they could do that on Windows as well, but the moment Microso
nevermind (Score:2)
750 euro per pc per year (Score:2)
And just at the right point
Xubuntu (Score:2)
And just at the right point .. where the software is too expensive, the interface is busted and the stability is screwed .. Ubuntu launched Unity!
Unity can be fixed: sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
Re: (Score:2)
Is SysgobEx a new Distro? Doesn't look like it (Score:2)
Just a quick search suggests that SysGobEx is actually the strategic plan to implement opensource in government. Extremadura actually had sponsored a linux distro called Linex (still being maintained as per distrowatch) back in the early 2000s. I think the headline submission text needs a revision.
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh come on guys, mod this up, that's the funniest thing posted on /. today!
Re: (Score:3)
Here, take a few of these. <p> <br> <p> <br> <p> <br> <p> <br> Take as many as you need, they're free.
You bastard, you didn't give him any closing tags! What's up next, a sneaky "complete electronics starter kit" with only male and no female connectors?
Re: (Score:2)
In HTML (as opposed to XHTML) <br> does not have a closing tag (in XHTML it is self closing, and should be written <br />). In HTML <p> is automatically closed by the next block level element, if it does not have a closing tag; as such, it doesn't require a closing tag (unlike in XHTML, where a closing tag is required for all non-self closing elements).
Re: (Score:2)
What's up next, a sneaky "complete electronics starter kit" with only male and no female connectors?
That sounds a lot like some IT departments I've seen.
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:4, Insightful)
Reminds me of what the trainers at work said.
Sit a linux admin and a windows admin in a room together and tell them to walk away from their mail exchangers for 2 weeks. The linux admin will be indifferent and the windows admin will visibly twitch, snap, and kill everyone.
Oh the stability of windows products.
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a nice, well used, and wrong chestnut.
Incredibly, the only real data to back up such flimsy assertions comes from companies that have, by amazing coincidence, received money from Microsoft. Purely for something unrelated, naturally.
The fact is that Linux is considerably more flexible to configure and deploy than Windows. It also does not come with huge complexity of auditing license compliance (yes, there are some companies that offer Linux support license; no, they are not like Microsoft's licensing complex). So if you are a lone administrator using your home computer or keeping up a small office, Microsoft may come easier to you (largely because that's what you've used growing up). Once you get to something larger, all these handwaving assertions start to break down.
It is a very convenient propaganda tool, because intuitively many people can agree with it, based on their own experience of working on their own computers. So people don't question it as much as they should.
Not that wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:5, Insightful)
Well the 'FACT' is due to M$ greed and their upgrade policy, windows and office support costs a packet, each and every forced upgrade cycle. Windows can and often is a nightmare to support, auto upgrade has to be disabled just in case and then manually done. Document incompatibilities in between versions needs constant support. Reality is, due to the simplicity of administering a Linux system (the windows registry sucks dead dog's dicks, why, why, oh why the fuck why) with text file configuration, a competent Linux administrator can get a huge amount done in a very short time, pay twice as much to often get ten times the work done in the same time.
PS you pay more for better skilled people, so what you are really saying is that Linux trained system administrators are better skilled then windoze admins (having contracted out both I can guarantee on average that is true). In fact often those Linux admins are far better at administrating windows systems then your typical windoze admin.
Re: (Score:3)
each and every forced upgrade cycle.
If Microsoft could force upgrades, why are so many systems not running Windows 8 yet?
So is the plan for an organization to move to an Open Source OS, never have an upgrade, and then the users can complain how old the system is?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Windows 7 support will end soon, so security patches will end, forcing an upgrade. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you. How old the system is? Linux isn't Windows, Linux PCs don't have slowdowns like Windows PCs do. A Linux PC is just as fast and snappy years later. You are a Windows user, otherwise you would know these things. It's easy to pick you guys out of a crowd.
Re: (Score:2)
You don't have to upgrade every version but you pretty much have to upgrade every 2-3 versions if you want to keep getting security updates and support for new hardware.
Right now afaict most companies have either just upgraded from XP to 7 or are in the process of doing so. In principle a company could go straight from XP to 8 and maintain security support throughout but a combination of dislike for the interface and the fact that companies need time to plan things means that I haven't heard of anyone doing
Re: (Score:2)
With linux you have to upgrade more often but at least you don't have to pay through the nose to do it.
But for a lot of businesses I know that would be an ADVANTAGE in having Windows. Non-tech businesses do not like things like frequent/continuous software upgrades. The $ cost is really not all that important in comparison with the potential interruption to the smooth running of the business.
I'm not saying they're right, just that the geek love of "release early, release often" does not translate to business users.
Re: (Score:2)
I have no idea what potential interruption in business you talk about, it certainly is far less common in open source software than in proprietary software.
Espousing the virtues of using a package manager - like aptitude - to update software has nothing to do with proprietary vs open source software, using apt-get update && apt-get upgrade works equally good for open source and proprietary software.
Re: (Score:2)
Not on the OS, but on the money making products like Office. I see sites upgrade their Office versions much more quickly than the OS versions.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"In fact often those Linux admins are far better at administrating windows systems then your typical windoze admin."
That's actually something I refused to believe. The most "modern" Version of Windows I've used was Windows XP, and I even barely did anything with it. Yet recently I was working with someone who earned his money fixing Windows. We ran into a fairly trivial problem, the owner of some files was set wrong so you couldn't access it via the network. The Windows person didn't know how to fix it. I h
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously, most self declared "Windows Experts" have no idea what you are talking about. You are talking about the very few who actually know what they are talking about.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:4, Interesting)
One way of looking at this is that governments would be insourcing, rather than outsourcing, their OS needs. You are right - on the Linux side, support does cost money. On the Windows side, ultimate obsolescence and upgrades are what would cost money. Since these computers wouldn't be used to play professional games (just the simple ones like Mines, Network and so on), the hardware can be as old as it likes (as long as it's still reliable) and since the governments would now be rolling their own distros, as did Munich or Portugal,
The hard lesson came to these guys w/ XP - they can either continue running an unsupported OS (in terms of bug fixes, antivirus & so on) or they can cough up €€€ in upgrading to Windows 7 (might as well go directly to Windows 8 if they are doing it NOW, and add whatever utilities they need to get back the start menu). Or they could bite the bullet this one time, switch to Linux (where they'd have the option of rolling out their own distro), and then maintaining a software division to write whatever apps they need, particularly ones in their native languages. Even the last sounds like good news for governments, since everywhere, governments like to expand and have more things to keep them busy, and ergo, more jobs for their voters. I just see win-win-win-win-win in all of this.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh, no! If something, such as a hardware peripheral, doesn't work under Linux, then the IT depts. here would either have to track down the distro owners and get them to support it, or they could do it themselves. Which is why rolling out their own distro makes sense - that way, they can procure all the inexpensive computers they can get their hands on, install their distros on them, and in the event that something doesn't work, have their coders write the software to ensure that it does. Since computer s
Which becomes cheaper, as its seldom needed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but then again, once you have things settled and working properly, you rarely ever need support. Unlike some other proprietary OSes, where things are constantly breaking, a Linux machine always works unless the hardware fails.
I have lived such a transition. Before, Windows machines would break all the time, and people in support were always overwhelmed. Now with Linux in desktops, after a small period of shock from users because of the change, its boring and very rarely support is ever needed. People also tend to stick to their work, since they can no longer try/install random malware of the day.
You are also forgetting, support for free software can come from anywhere; you are not tied to a single vendor. And i mean real support, such as, "i need program x to do y, can you change it?"
Chaining yourself to a single vendor is business suicide; and a loss of sovereignty to a foreign corporation from a government perspective.
Once you break of the chains, you will never want to go back.
Re: (Score:2)
Unlike some other proprietary OSes, where things are constantly breaking, a Linux machine always works unless the hardware fails.
Have you ever used Linux with a GUI? Servers, sure, rock solid, but I have always had X issues which were annoying. And don't tell me to "just ssh in and restart X, the computer didn't really crash", normal users won't do that and shouldn't have to.
I haven't seen that happen in at least 5 years.
Re:The expense isn't the license, it's support (Score:4, Interesting)
No, in the instances companies and organisations switched from Windows to Linux the support cost went _down_ not up. There's plenty of good reasons for that, like the ability to not only remotely log into such machines, but also the ability to script that. Or the idea of a package manager where you can do updates of _all_ your software automatically. Or the idea that all configuration is stored in text files which are trivial to edit and fix if something goes wrong.
One if the more extreme examples is currently seen. Microsoft dropped support for Windows XP... without providing a successor. Now many companies are faced with switching to Windows 7 only to be faced with the same problem in a few years. If Windows XP would have been free (as in speech) software, they could have just gradually replaced parts of it with newer versions, making the change gradual instead of abrupt, maybe even keeping some parts for compatibility.
Free Software isn't dependent on single organisations or persons. Just look at Ubuntu. If you don't like Unity, switch to Xubuntu or Kubuntu. If you don't like Shuttleworth switch to Debian. You'll have (more or less) the same software on all of those, but you have a choice.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You're funny :)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Okay, I don't have much sympathy for this argument and here's why: a) You are using hardware that is at least over 7 years old if it isn't supported by any newer version of windows and is probably older than that in which case it probably is time to upgrade b) You've known for well over 7 years that XP support wasn't going to last forever and have had time to plan and budget, its not like Microsoft just released XP and the next day said we are going to stop supporting it
XP is 12-13 year old operating system
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I was referring to external peripherals (Score:3)
No way does anybody in their right mind actually believe that anyone going to contract a developer to build drivers for components in their decade old PC.
I was referring to external peripherals such as an EPROM programmer or an expensive CNC mill.
Re: (Score:2)
Competent linux people are as cheap as competent windows people, its just that the market is flooded with incompetent windows people who distort the perception... It is these huge numbers of cheap but incompetent windows admins who contribute significantly to the public perception of windows as being extremely unreliable and insecure, indeed most employees who spend their day sitting at a computer will have many stories to tell about regular problems they encounter.
Also, Linux admins generally manage more s
Re: (Score:3)
The Windows 7 GUI feels more polished, especially in the area of app installation.
Something tells me you haven't used Linux for a very long time, if ever...
Re: (Score:2)
The Windows 7 GUI feels more polished, especially in the area of app installation.
Something tells me you haven't used Linux for a very long time, if ever...
Something tells me that you've just taken an astro-turfer at at his word. Not smart.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
but i'm still trying to figure out how to get more games for the vista machine without getting infected by malware.
GOG or Steam.
Re:I use Windows at home, Linux at work (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to work for a state government agency -- more than ten years ago. Anyway, I was given a computer to use, a login for various things, MS Office to type stuff on, and I was completely forbidden to install anything. I suspect for large entities, including governments, ease of application installation isn't really an issue because the users aren't going to be doing the installing.
Anyway, I left the state and opened up my own business. At first I made copious use of open source because every penny mattered, and then later just because it was familiar to me and worked fine. I can say that for basic word processing and spreadsheet work -- like what 99.999% of what anyone actually does, Open/Libre Office has been just fine over the years (daily frequent usage). In fact, I don't even know how to use most of what LibreOffice offers because in reality, it doesn't matter -- I'm not a book or magazine publisher. I just need to write letters, envelopes, and certain industry specific atypically formatted documents, but nothing a background image, center, bold and italic can't handle.
Recently I had to install windows (7, in a VM) for a special project and I had no choice about this. This is the first version of Windows I've had in a decade (I'm a Linux and OS X user), and you know what, at first it was fucking hard to use. Not because it's actually hard ... but because it was unfamiliar. Except, after a few hours or so with it, it sort of clicked and it's as easy as anything else. Just like in my office -- the assistants all use OS X machines, and every new employee goes through a little reorientation with the computer if they aren't OS X familiar, but after a few days, nobody notices (except the total idiots, but it's a good test because it has been well proven to me, that if you can't translate the task from one icon to another, you probably belong in a job where you can listen to music all day and make coffee). Anyway, after a few days, they just use it and do their work without difficulty. I suspect that most people will be able to do the same thing, especially if the IT guy is the one doing all the installation and then telling them "to do that, just click on this icon right here ..."
Re: (Score:3)
When it comes to people doing grunt office work, there are two broad categories of worker.
In group 1, you have people who learned how to use MS Office ver X on Windows ver Y at a community college. They don't get how it all works, just know they click this or that. But, as soon as they end up in front of a different version of Windows or Office, they no longer know how it works and need someone to point to what they click in the new version. It's just as easy (or hard) for them to go to a new version of
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Overheard in front of MS Surface display at local MediaMarkt:
"Varför finns det ingen skärm på den här skärmen, bara ikoner? Hur fan kan man hitta något på det här sättet?"
("Why is there no screen on this screen, only icons? How the hell do you find anything this way?")
Re: (Score:3)
Overheard in front of MS Surface display at local MediaMarkt:
"Varför finns det ingen skärm på den här skärmen, bara ikoner? Hur fan kan man hitta något på det här sättet?"
("Why is there no screen on this screen, only icons? How the hell do you find anything this way?")
I suppose he's never seen an ipad then.
OS-X, Linux and Windows (Score:2)