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Cellphones Linux

Samsung And Docomo Reportedly Working on Tizen Phone 88

Posted by Unknown Lamer from the meego-lives-on dept.
sfcrazy writes with this excerpt from Muktware: "Samsung, which became a market leader thanks to Android, is reportedly working on a smartphone powered by Linux-based Tizen operating system. The company is working with NTT Docomo to create a Tizen powered smartphone. ... Samsung already has its Bada operating system which it uses in some devices. Samsung was expected to merge Bada efforts with Tizen but there has been no attempt in that regards. How Samsung, the Android market leader, positions this phone and creates an app ecosystem around it will be interesting to watch."
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Samsung And Docomo Reportedly Working on Tizen Phone More

Samsung And Docomo Reportedly Working on Tizen Phone

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  • Bada is dead as far as I can see, the last handsets running that OS were released in 2011, with no activity at all during 2012. It would seem pretty obvious though that Samsung would develop a Tizen handset as it was a leading proponent of LiMo which folded into Tizen.

    Whether or not anyone will care about Tizen is another matter. Samsung tried to push LiMo with the Vodafone 360 range back in 2009. That was pretty much a failure, I don't think that the odds are in favour of a Tizen device, especially if it

    • Bada dead, Tizen undead (Score:4, Informative)

      by AliasMarlowe ( 1042386 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:06AM (#42450231) Journal

      I don't think that the odds are in favour of a Tizen device, especially if it is a carrier exclusive.

      But it might work in the rest of the world, where carrier-exclusive handsets are uncommon. Such tying of handsets to carriers is sometimes frowned upon legally, but more often rejected by the customers who recognize its inherent disadvantages for them. Actually, many of us can't fathom the carrier-exclusivity and "subsidies" which are widespread in the US market.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Desler ( 1608317 )

        What does the US have to do with Samsung making a carrier-exclusive phone in Japan?

      • the subsidies are easy to fathom:

        1- people would rather pay $100 up front and then $100 per month for 2 years (total = $2.500) rather than $600 + $50x25 = $1.850. that's idiotic, but that's the way the mind works.
        2- People don't realize they'd pay a lot less by doing a consumer credit on the phone, and getting a no-commitment contract
        3- The government is not acting against what are, in effect, usury rates

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Belial6 ( 794905 )
          Your reasons are correct. #1 is the biggest problem though. It stems from the fact that most children in the US are never taught what the word "Free" (as in beer) actually means. The word "Free" gets thrown around for things that must be paid for non-stop in the US, and most of the population eats it up.

          This summer at the California State Fair, my son got an itch to go and get all of the "Free" stuff that was being offered in the exhibit halls. Having had the "Free" conversation many times, we gave h
        • In general, I agree with your logic. But in the particular case of smart phones and wireless plans in the US, from my research it's cheaper to go no-contract if you're an individual but cheaper to get a contract if you're buying for two or more people (and plan to stay with the carrier for at least two years).

          On contract for Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, and T-Mobile I'm pretty sure the first phone and its minutes and data cost a lot more than a no-contract plan, but each additional phone shares the plan

    • Bada is dead

      Did Netcraft confirm it?

    • Even being dead, Bada still managed to sell 20% more than Windows Phone in Q3 2012 ( http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=2237315 [gartner.com] ) .

      Samsung Bada phones cost about 20% less than Samsung Android phones based on equivalent hardware (see the Wave 3 vs the Galaxy S Plus for instance). People who buy phones for their out-of-the-box features might be interested in the saving.

  • They can't be serious! (Score:5, Funny)

    by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @09:54AM (#42450147) Homepage

    Are they just Tizen us?

  • What is the point (Score:4, Informative)

    by ZombieBraintrust ( 1685608 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:05AM (#42450221)
    For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by alen ( 225700 )

      the android market is really the Samsung market since Samsung takes home something like 95% of all profits on android phones and sells the most units

      samsung would be dumb not to think about dumping google

    • Re:What is the point (Score:4, Insightful)

      by UpnAtom ( 551727 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:50AM (#42450557)

      It'll be cheaper than iOS of course.

      There's a good chance it'll be faster than Android (no Dalvik layer) but many suspect that HTML5 isn't a good basis for apps and that Sailfish will be the fastest Linux-based operating system.

      If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android. Depending on how open the source is, it may be future proof.

      Tizen was announced before Sailfish and really the latter stole its thunder with the Maemo/MeeGo community.

      Sailfish has compatibility with MeeGo, is largely open source, will probably be very fast and has an advanced UI. Whereas Tizen has Samsung behind it.

      • it'll be cheaper than Android probable, and possibly more profitable for Samsung too (they won't have to pay the Microsoft tax on each android handset)

        As for HTML5, its almost certainly crap for high-performance stuff like games, but perfectly capable for the most low-perf stuff like displaying screens and buttons. But then you can say the same for dalvik - all the high-perf apps I have turn out to be written with the NDK. Mozilla's firefox OS would disagree with you though.

      • Doesn't Dalvik give Android apps CPU independence like Java does, though? I mean, you never know when x86 might actually gain a foothold in mobile, or maybe Hitachi might rise from the ashes with another SuperH chip ...

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Desler ( 1608317 )

          Sure, but many performance-sensitive apps like games use the NDK and are compiled for ARM only.

        • I never really understood what the point of platform independence here is. What is the problem with running a compiler once for every platform you are shipping to, and shipping the right binary to your customers? Is it really worth to pay in performance just to have "platform independence"?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Belial6 ( 794905 )
            Yes it is worth it. Your suggestion is what the old Windows phones used to do. It simply didn't work. Way too much stuff targeted only one processor, and it was often hard to tell if apps were even written for your device. The speed issue is a red herring. Current processors are plenty fast for running an emulation layer that creates platform independence. The vast majority of users would not notice the difference between an emulated environment vs. a native environment. Most phones are not running t
          • Platform independence with Java for Android gave Google three big advantages in additions to the ones Belial6 mentioned:

            1. The barrier to entry for developers was very low. You can write Android applications using a Mac, a Windows PC, or a Linux PC. For iOS and Windows Phone, you need a Mac or Windows PC, respectively, to develop for it.

            2. Java is more widely known and easier to learn than C++ or Objective C.

            3. Java has security features built into its virtual machine - you can launch a Java

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by CAIMLAS ( 41445 )

        If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android. Depending on how open the source is, it may be future proof.

        WTF does this even mean?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Raenex ( 947668 )

        If it's real Linux, it's inherently more secure than iOS and Android.

        Why do you say that? First of all, Android is already based on Linux. Second, Android is already more secure than the typical Linux desktop in that the apps are permission-based, compared with the typical desktop apps that run installers as root and have all the permissions of the user when running afterwards.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Mints ( 146243 )

      For consumers what is the benefit of another choice with more choices?

      Fixed that for you. And the answer is choice is the benefit for consumers. Maybe even competition for consumers by providers.

      • I understand that it is a new choice. But as a consumer why would I choose this OS? I listed a couple reasons people choose one product over the other. What is the two sentence pitch for Tizen?

    • For consumers what is the benefit of another phone OS with another incompatible app store? What features does this OS have. Is it faster? Cheaper? Prettier?

      Probably the same advantages as the Bada OS. In other words, very few advantages for consumers. (Though I'm hopeful that Bada's battery life would get to Tizen. 2-4 days on single charge!)

      The purpose of the new OS is to ensure that the manufacturers have a bargaining chip when dealing with the OS providers, Google and Microsoft. Also they can develop it independently and integrate whatever features they want - if the Google or Microsoft are reluctant to act or demand too high pay for the customization.

      T

    • More competition is always good. Keeps the rest on their toes. That's why I'd like to see MS succeed with their mobile offering - a third player is good, more competition - but unfortunately they messed it up quite thoroughly.

      So well maybe Samsung can manage. They have good hardware for starters. Key problem is going to be the apps, of course. Both Android and iOS have created a very serious lock-in factor that way.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mlts ( 1038732 ) *

        Competition is good, but I don't want yet another locked down app platform to choose from. The least locked down is Android because having full root control of the phone does not mean that apps are in any way less contained (unlike iOS where a JB means that the internal security is completely compromised, and apps can write outside of their cells.)

        If I could have the ideal OS, it would be like Tizen, except it would allow the RPM packages to have signed native code (which can be written in C, C++, or anyth

    • Hence "Linux based." Apps will only need to be repackaged, the source code probably won't even need to be changed.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mlts ( 1038732 ) *

      Bingo. Also as important is their security model and app structure:

      Tizen uses sandboxes (where apps can read their files and system libs, but not other app directories), similar to iOS and a security manager called SMACK (Simple Mandatory Access Control Kernel). It uses two UIDs, root and the UID the apps run under. For package management, it appears to use RPM.

      I see a number of good/bad/ugly points about it. If I have root on the device, in theory, it should not affect app security (unlike iOS where a

      • With Android you can use the Native Development Kit if you want to do things that it's not feasible to do well with Java/Dalvik. So I presume Tizen could do the same. HTML5 would be for mainstream applications like Angry Birds and Cut the Rope and weather widgets. I presume you could still write native applications in C or whatever language you wanted, Tizen is open source after all.

        In terms of performance, Javascript is on a path to become the fastest interpreted language in the world. IE, Opera, Saf

    • This is really a hedge against Google. WIth Google aquiring Motorola Mobility, they are actually posed to start producing their own consumer oriented branded hardware for Android. This far the "Google phones/tablets" have really been aimed at developers, not the end consumers. Therefore they aren't a perceived threat to Samsung. But the instant Google gets serious about releasing their own branded hardware aimed at consumers you'll notice how quickly Samsung will start to ship other OSes.

  • I"m curious to know (Score:3)

    by ClaraBow ( 212734 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:08AM (#42450251)
    Does anyone know if there is an Android comparability layer?

  • I love linux and use it everywhere but let's be honest - Tizen isn't going anywhere. These developers would be better off building a GPL pure ecosystem around Android.

  • The ecosystem is already there (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gmuslera ( 3436 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:09AM (#42450261) Homepage Journal
    is called HTML5. A lot of the stack can be found and used elsewhere (i.e. Apache Cordova [apache.org]) and shared by a lot of mobile OSs (webos, tizen, bada, sailfish, mer, and probably others, and more important, could be installed in the other platforms, including desktop.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      By installing Hydra [maemo.org], the Nokia N9 already supports Cordova, including W3C, Opera and indeed Tizen apps. But it also shows the weak spots: usability, functionality and speed is very much sub par compared to the native Qt environment. And HTML5/JS being a mediocre platform at best for programming applications, I can't find a reason why anyone would want a Tizen device.

      I'm much more interested in SailfishOS, which builds on Qt/QML, but will have support for Python and Android as well. Undoubtedly, since Sailfi

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by UpnAtom ( 551727 )

        Sailfish will be mostly open and compatible with Nemo.

        https://sailfishos.org/wiki/QA [sailfishos.org]

        I suspect nearly all MeeGo apps will run natively assuming ARM architecture. Maemo apps (of which there's about 700) will need minimal adjustment.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Lisias ( 447563 )

      PhoneGap sucked badly on anything except the most basic applications. Little marketing apps were ok (or almost) on it. Everything else endup on a terrible user experience.

      I don't see how Cordova could overcome this.

    • All the HTML5 apps I've seen sucked. Don't take my word for it, Zuckerberg made Facebook go back to a native app. Let's face it web developers and their develoment paradigms are not up to the task of really cool, responsive interfaces. If you disagree with me, then please explain how a very organic, unorganized process of evolution from client/server architecture using HTML 1 to 4 coupled with a bolted-on interpreter, and bolted on Style Sheets produce an ideal app development environment.

      I, and many others

  • Anybody here excited? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by horza ( 87255 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:14AM (#42450287) Homepage

    Going to tizen.org web site, they seem pretty determined to hide information from potential developers. It's not until you get down to the tutorials that they admit supposed "apps" are just html and javascript pages. I can't see a future for a platform with no apps apart from toy ones. I guess it's aimed at dumb-phones given away free by the carriers, but a phone with no apps is going to be a hard sell.

    Phillip.

    • I can't see a future for a platform with no apps apart from toy ones.

      You should get out more often. 90% of time I see people playing some simple games on their smartphones. Remaining 10% mostly browsing, reading news.

      I guess it's aimed at dumb-phones [...]

      You can't imagine how hard right now it is to come by a decent dumb/feature-phone.

      [...] given away free by the carriers, but a phone with no apps is going to be a hard sell.

      Not many people need the apps. A phone which has weather widget and decent browser covers heck a lot of consumers.

      If Sammy/Docomo also would manage to improve battery life (e.g. Samsung Wave with Bada OS can go 2-4 days on single charge) I personally would gladly trade the choice

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by bimozx ( 2689433 )

      It can't be helped that HTML and JS apps on Mobile Phones haven't been taken seriously, but to be fair they are usually treated as a second citizen there. HTML and JS app is actually a pretty good platform to develop with, it's pretty simple and robust, in my experience. And the growth of development techniques and tools used in web development can also propagate to the development of mobile apps that uses the same technology as a platform.

      Also some project have proved that it is feasible to create an exper

  • Samsung/Microsoft joint venture (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:17AM (#42450307)

    Samsung is working with Microsoft in search software for its phones. They're going to call it:

    <puts on sunglasses>

    Bada Bing!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Lisias ( 447563 )

      Samsung is working with Microsoft in search software for its phones. They're going to call it:

      <puts on sunglasses>

      Bada Bing!

      Beakman? It's you? :-)

  • Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tizen (Score:3)

    by ArhcAngel ( 247594 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @10:23AM (#42450361)
    In case anyone was wondering where Tizen came from.

    Meamo (Nokia) + Moblin (Intel) = Meego [meego.com] - Nokia + Samsung = Tizen [theverge.com]

    • Tizen has nothing in common with Maemo or MeeGo. Its Samsung's internal Linux platform, LiMo, and some things from Intel and a lot hidden behind closed doors.

      • Re:Meamo + Moblin = Meego - Nokia + Samsung = Tize (Score:5, Informative)

        by ArhcAngel ( 247594 ) on Wednesday January 02, 2013 @12:59PM (#42452061)
        I suspect you were tl;dr the links I supplied. The Meego web site has a post from Imad Sousou of Intel's Open Source technology center handing the torch off from Meego to Tizen. [tizen.org]

        Tizen has nothing in common with Maemo or MeeGo.

        "There has been a lot of great work done in the Meego project, and we are pleased to see that code carried over to Tizen." - Imad Sousa (Meego’s technical steering group co-leader)

        Its Samsung's internal Linux platform

        If by internal you mean it is maintained by the Linux Foundation [linuxfoundation.org] then OK.

      • Are you thinking of Bada?

  • the market is up for grabs in a GNU/Linux cell phone

    1. I don't think anyone new is ever going to catch apple/android

    2. there is a small niche(self included) market segment, that wants a GNU/Linux phone. These people bought the nokia n900. These are probably the most vicious and loyal fanbois there are, and we've been without a standard phone bearer for 3 years already. There is no reason you won't sell 1 million devices to the same people every development cycle.

    3. Built it we will come. There is no need fo

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