The State of Linux Accessibility 138
Dog's_Breakfast writes "This week's edition of DistroWatch Weekly News features a unique story entitled 'Linux Accessibility — What is it and Why Does It Matter?' The article was written by Robert Cole, a blind person with a computer science degree. Mr Cole points out that Linux offers an excellent set of free tools for seeing-impaired users. Putting together a similar set of tools on Windows would cost at least US$600, about double what a retail copy of Windows itself costs."
Linux (Score:3, Funny)
Dance floor build initiated.
Start the drums. Building graph sequence. And the baseline created the melody. Melody programmed.
Now, add the people. Enter access code... Access granted.
Welcome to the dance floor. Here is your DJ, Armin van Buuren. This is... THE STATE OF LINUX ACCESSABILITY!
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It's super accessible (Score:3)
Because you can do everything with the command line. Keyboard text input. Spoken text output.
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Because you can do everything with the command line. Keyboard text input. Spoken text output.
I guess we'll see a decrease in Perl programmers among non-visual users then.
/:.:/xg;s/:/../g;$Q=$_?length:$_;$q+=$q?$Q:$Q*20;}print chr($q);}}}print"\n";
It's so bad that Slashdot's filter bitched about junk characters until I but out about 50% of the program:
open(Q,$0);while(){if(/^#(.*)$/){for(split('-',$1)){$q=0;for(split){s/\|
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There's always cobol. Of course I haven't programmed in cobol in about 7 years but I remember PIC lines were pretty hellish
001 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
002 PROGRAM-ID. 'HELLO'.
003 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
004 CONFIGURATION SECTION.
005 SOURCE-COMPUTER. IBM-360.
006 OBJECT-COMPUTER. IBM-360.
(Shamelessly copied from wikipedia, but lets be realistic, cobol is not exactly a language for the worlds unique snowflakes, on
Re:It's super accessible (Score:5, Insightful)
Cobol is one of the most audibly readable languages there is.
"multiply a by b giving c" sounds a lot better than "c equalsign a asterisk b semicolon".
If I were to vote for the language that is the hardest to understand when read out loud (whether by machine or human), my vote would not go to perl, but lisp. With perl, at least you have the option to make it somewhat readable. Good luck balancing lisp parentheses correctly.
Not to mention typical block comments (in most any language), where you risk hearing five minutes of "asterisk asterisk asterisk asterisk..."
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If I were to vote for the language that is the hardest to understand when read out loud (whether by machine or human), my vote would not go to perl, but lisp.
I'd vote for APL [dyndns.org] (the FFT example is illuminating). At least Lisp constructs are pronounceable, this [wikipedia.org] is not. Then again, a one-liner for Conways' game of life is impressive. APL was one of the first two computer languages I learned, and it remains one of my favorites.
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I'm guething lithp would have other ithues as well when thpoken.
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The Mac OSX userland is much better than something horrible like Windows but it's very dated compared to a recent Linux distro.
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Apple has really done well with accessibility.
I remember an exchange here that went like this (Google can't find it, because the Googlebot has better things to do than remember four year old slashdot posts. Unlike me)
Primus: .... The Macs UI us hard to use. You need to click on the very narrow window border to resize the window.
Secundus: Very narrow border? What are you, some kind of spastic?
Tertius: Mac fans show their people skills once again.
Something must be wrong with me... (Score:3, Funny)
...Because when I saw "accessibility" I immediately thought "ease-of-use" and had a laugh.
From the article... (Score:5, Informative)
When you boot up an Ubuntu live CD or USB drive, press CTRL+S when you hear a drum sound. This will start the Orca screen reader, and you can either try Ubuntu using Orca or install Ubuntu with your eyes closed; it's entirely your choice. I was able to do a complete installation (including partitioning my drives) without having to look at my screen!
Didn't know about this option. I have to say that this is pretty cool.
Which side is up? (Score:3)
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You've already seen a double side CD? I didn't think so. It does not exists because the CD is 1.2mm thick and the distance btw the laser and the dye layer is supposed to be 1.2mm as well... So your dye layer is necessarily on one edge of the CD. Since it is supposed to be opaque, a laser could not see though it if you flipped it on the other side.
DualDIsc (Score:2)
You've already seen a double side CD?
No, but I've seen a double-sided (stamped) DVD, and I've read of a double-sided (stamped) DualDisc that has a DVD on one side and a (non-conforming) mostly-CD-compatible layer on the other.
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DVDs have been designed to be double sided. They are 1.2mm thick and the dye layer is supposed to be at 0.6mm from the surface, in other words, right in the middle. This allows for double side by design.
A double sided CD/DVD makes the disc not conforming with either spec since it's going to be thicker. It works for the most part. A double sided CD would be much harder since it would have to be twice as thick and that wouldn't work at all.
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You've already seen a double side CD?
i bought the south movie years ago on dvd and it was double-sided
unclefucker
So your answer to "You've already seen a double side CD?" is "Yes I've seen a double sided DVD!" ?
Reading comprehension issue? Sudden inflammatory urge? Anything else?
Fingerprints (Score:2)
Or rely on the fact that a sticker feels different from the plastic on the side with the data.
Do you know of any easy way to rely on that without getting fingerprints all over the data side?
Re:Fingerprints (Score:4, Informative)
Do you know of any easy way to rely on that without getting fingerprints all over the data side?
Sure! Licking it will not leave a fingerprint!
As others have said, CDs and DVDs already have a built-in feature for blind people and people changing discs in the dark. The side that goes towards the laser (usually "down") has a ridge near the hub. It's prominent enough that you can easily feel it through a paper sleeve (and if you have a jewel box, you should already have it the right side up, but you can still feel for it if in doubt).
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Re:Which side is up? (Score:5, Informative)
The edge of the writeable/readable area, you mean (Score:1)
Your comment is a bit confusing, I consider the "edge of the spindle hole" to be the actual physical hole --- but the ridge you're describing is at the edge of the non-writable/readable area around the hole, in the middle of a flat section of the disc. The hole itself is totally flat on the side which goes down, and on the other side has a small step recess (or possibly a better word would be "bevel").
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I think your drive is installed upside down.
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CD? They are blind, not out of date luddites. Inserting the USB boot stick is quite easy for a Visually impaired person
CDs still have some advantages (Score:1)
A burned optical disc cannot be modified by malware --- which is, simultaneously, its strength and also weakness (since the OS burned on it will always boot unpatched).
I'm still waiting for the USB sticks with the true write-protect switches to become available again --- but I'm not holding my breath. Know of any solution for this need? It would be even better if there was some open interface which could lock some partitions while leaving others writeable!
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A burned optical disc cannot be modified by malware [...] It would be even better if there was some open interface which could lock some partitions [on a USB mass storage device] while leaving others writeable!
What would keep malware from connecting to this open interface and infecting the flash drive's "locked" partition?
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A switch that is disconnecting the Flash chip's write line. I dont care how good of a virus writer you are, you will not write one that flips a physical switch.
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Linux allows you to mount partitions as "read only". Also, look up "immutable" (chattr) and the extended ACLs used in SELinux.
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That won't help you if you plug your USB device into a compromised system. What's needed is a real hardware lockout, like the physical switches we had on floppy disks back in the day.
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We have them on CF/SD/MS cards.
It's only USB keys that mostly seem to lack them.
But one of the main points in favour of CDs/DVDs is price. Even though USB keys have gone way down in price, we're still talking cents to dollars here.
Another point in favour for things like distros is that you don't have to burn each of them individually. You can stamp out thousands.
Then there's mailing. You need a box or bubble wrap bag for USB keys, while a cardboard envelope works for CDs and DVDs.
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No you don't. That switch just sets a flag that the OS can choose to ignore.
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No you don't. That switch just sets a flag that the OS can choose to ignore.
Um, so? If the user controls the machine, he can do whatever he likes anyhow.
The switch is useful to protect against accidental overwrites. On commercial software, an SD card with the switch removed serves the same purpose as a no-notch floppy.
With floppies, you could cut a notch, or even remove the spring that checked whether the notch was there (which for one external drive I had made it into "Right side up, write protected, upside down, write allowed").
It doesn't prevent hackers writing; it prevents us
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Read up thread a bit, we're talking about protection against malware. In the case that you're sticking your USB key into machines you don't control (which is largely the use case for USB keys), you need to have your data protected against malware.
And yes, with floppies a user could tape the disc, or modify the disc drive. But a virus could not do either. That's the important point.
Re:Which side is up? (Score:5, Insightful)
Inserting the USB boot stick is quite easy for a Visually impaired person
Or rather, it's no more difficult for a visually impaired person. Even with two functioning eyeballs, it often takes three tries to fit the USB connector.
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Some of mine are so badly made, it takes five tries. How much skill does it take to design a flat connector that takes five attempts to insert it the right way up.
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I just wonder how a blind user knows whether the install CD is inserted the right way up in the first place.
Well...
1) When taking out of the case, it is usually the label side up
2) By feel
3) If the user does not hear the drive seeking or eventually the drum sound, it's worth trying flipping around
4) You can simply try both ways without it causing any damage
5) Ultimately, ask someone else
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Texture. I'm not blind, but I've done this all the time without looking. The data side is much smoother.
visually impared irony (Score:3)
It has tons of accessibility features for the visually impaired if you know where to look.
I get this same feeling every time I lose my glasses. The bitter irony of having to look for your glasses...
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It has tons of accessibility features for the visually impaired if you know where to look.
Where to look might be an issue for visually impaired people...
Then there's Gnome 3, which won't even let you change font and widget sizes and styles.
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Then there's Gnome 3, which won't even let you change font and widget sizes and styles.
They really are dead set on copying OS X, are they...
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Was that really so hard?!?
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accessibility -> text size -> large.
Was that really so hard?!?
There is no "Accessibility" in Gnome 3. Try "Universal Access".
What's "large" and "larger"? Arbitrary figures that some "developer" (and I use the term lightly) thought was as large as anyone would need, regardless of eyesight and DPI, that's what.
And there's no way to choose a font that the user can actually read. For Gnome 3, form wins over function.
You need to let the user decide himself. And just because he wants bread text in 20 pt doesn't mean he also wants titles blown up to 50 pt, which is what
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It has tons of accessibility features for the visually impaired if you know where to look.
Yeah, that's Linux in a nutshell.
Not only the blind (Score:2)
There are a lot of people in the world who have sensitive eyes. A lot more than the blind. And still there is a lot of software that uses the black-text-on-white-background color scheme. Of all the possible choices, this is the one that causes the worst eyestrain. So if you are a software developer, take pity on hurting and watering eyes and allow us to use a darker color scheme. Windows Aero, I'm (not) looking at you!
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All the major GUI toolkits allow you to theme your colors however you like. There are even tools for reconsiling themes across different toolkits. I can't remember the last time I came across an app that didn't source my GTK theme and just look right.
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Those are websites, not apps.
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And still there is a lot of software that uses the black-text-on-white-background color scheme. Of all the possible choices, this is the one that causes the worst eyestrain.
No, that distinction should go to blue-on-black and black-on-blue.
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There are a lot of people in the world who have sensitive eyes. A lot more than the blind. And still there is a lot of software that uses the black-text-on-white-background color scheme. Of all the possible choices, this is the one that causes the worst eyestrain. So if you are a software developer, take pity on hurting and watering eyes and allow us to use a darker color scheme. Windows Aero, I'm (not) looking at you!
Also websites, as people spend a lot of time with those. Currently the situation is that when you set your web browser to force some kind of black theme, it breaks so much that it's not worth it. So a good (and quite simple) solution would be a trend among web developers to make sites offer a black color theme.
I have also been using the Compiz "Invert colors" effect with some success, but it's not the nicest way to do it. :)
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This is a matter of horrible website design, aided and abetted by all the major browser makers. Unfortunately it is indeed very common, and unfortunately the solution you suggest is not simple, and definitely not good. It's trying to patch over a huge gaping wound with a million little individual scabs, each of which would have to come from a different source and be implemented independently.
Instead of offering multiple 'themes' per page, the logical way to do this is simply to use proper HTML, which means
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Actually, the main problem with web pages is the current fad of using div background images as ui elements. "Use my colors" in Firefox turns off all backgrounds, and while that is indeed what I want, the UIs break. The correct solution, of course, is to use the img tag for images that are part of page content. Displaying backgrounds is supposed to be optional and any web designer relying on them for displaying content is doing it wrong.
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double (Score:2)
Putting together a similar set of tools on Windows would cost at least US$600, about double what a retail copy of Windows itself costs
If you want the impaired version of windows, otherwise.....
Orca good? (Score:5, Informative)
I used to work with a blind programmer. He is a Linux geek. Every year or two he tries the screen readers in Linux, and says they all suck compared to Jaws in Windows (including Orca).
So he does all his email, web browsing, etc in Windows, as well as as much programming as he can get away with. For him Linux has been relegated to a toy he plays with once in a while.
Not a Linux geek (Score:1)
I'm not contesting the fact that your friend's blind. He might even be a good blind computer user. But it seems he doesn't meet the requirements of a "Linux geek". A Linux geek is one who doesn't just play with or treat Linux as a toy. How can one be a "something" geek, if you don't use that something regularly. Call him a Windows geek or a computer (in general) geek, but not a Linux geek.
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Actually, I think that runs counter to the notion of calling someone a "Linux geek."
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My thoughts exactly. When I notice things like this, I tend to take every other assertion by the author with a grain of salt.
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Actually, I think that runs counter to the notion of calling someone a "Linux geek."
So, you're saying that if I'm a Linux geek today, go blind tomorrow and can use Linux only with great difficulty afterwards, I need to relinquish my title as geek?
Extremist much?
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Depends.
While I have no experience with Orca, it seems to me most people with sight disabilities should use Linux on the command-line.
I know a lot of people who have that kind of disabilities long for the good old days of DOS 80x25 text screens, and there are tons of programs for Linux that can be really useful even with that kind of screen, starting with alpine, mutt, lynx, links, slrn, vim, emacs, snownews, screen and so on and so forth. Having a GUI is, frankly, not really useful for that kind of user. O
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He uses Linux from the command line. It's not like he has much of an option.
On the other hand, a simple text screen can be "read" with either a Braille terminal or a speech synthesis software.
After installing and configuring JAWS on Windows a couple of times for a blind friend, I can testify that it is the most expensive PoS I have ever seen...
He paid roughly $700 for Jaws. His Braille terminal cost in the thousands (although I think a lot of it was paid for by grants, etc). If someone has to pay out of pocket, Jaws is probably a lot cheaper.
Well, let me clarify that: He bought his Braille terminal a long time ago - perhaps they're cheaper now. However, given how sturdy it's been all these years, the money may have been worth it.
Nevertheless, although he uses his Braille
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I've no doubt that Windows has superior 'kludging some degree of blind usability on top of a GUI' software offerings, because there is some serious cash in the 'corporations that don't like ADA suits' market; but I would(perhaps naively) expect that the unix-style environment(not exclusive to Linux, of cours
Re:Orca good? (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate to say it, but that's the general consensus. And is it surprising that an expensive product put out by a software company is favored over an open-source alternative? The biggest problem with JAWS, from my perspective, is the whopping $1,000 price of admission for a target user group that has high unemployment problems already.
I have to give a shoutout to the NVDA project (http://www.nvda-project.org/), and would encourage your friend to give them a shot if he would like an open-source alternative to JAWS on Windows.
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Notwithstanding the other comments, if your co-worker really was a Linux geek, and a programmer, one of the first things you would think he'd do is write some decent screen-reading software for Linux. Given the tiny number of blind programmers compared to sighted ones, who else is going to write the software? The other comments here have already pointed out that most sighted people don't know how to design something for the blind. Maybe that's why every time he tries the software it hasn't improved...it sounds a bit mean, but you kind of only have yourself to blame if you have all the skills and ability required to solve a problem, but then choose not to.
Defensive, aren't we?
1. I didn't say my friend demands that someone should donate their time to make a better OS screen reader. He's merely pointing out that it sucks. You can be a programmer, a Linux geek, and an OS fan and still point out flaws in the system.
2. Really, all it takes to write a decent screen reader is to be a programmer and a Linux geek? So I take it the reason Gimp doesn't come close to a lot of Photoshop's features is that there are few Linux programmers who like photography? And the reas
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But, lets face it: a linux geek that hardly uses linux (as you seem to claim) is NOT a linux geek. Disagree?
Definitely disagree. A Linux geek is one who knows a lot about Linux, and likes it.
I never said he didn't like Linux. I said he hates the available screen readers.
Here, your own words: "So he does all his email, web browsing, etc in Windows, as well as as much programming as he can get away with. For him Linux has been relegated to a toy he plays with once in a while.". So, not a linux geek.
You make it too easy - let me point out a simple flaw in your defintion. According to you, one can only be a geek in one OS (or language, or whatever). Because if you use one OS more than another, you can only be a geek in the one you use more. Hence you can't be, say, a Linux geek and a MacOS geek.
I simply can't see how using Windows more prevent
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It's that's true (and I sincerely DOUBT IT), then your friend is an idiot. A programmer and Linux "geek" that finds Orca is not good enough, and instead of helping him/herself and improve Orca prefers to bitch it? WHAT THE FAIL!
As a neutral observer, I see no evidence that the blind programmer in question "bitches" about anything -- he simply uses the best (in his opinion) of what is available. As do I. I'm not a fan of most current office suites, but I use MS Office when it's available to me (because it does the job) and I use LibreOffice on my PC (because it does the job and it's free, and it has decent classic keystroke combinations to get stuff done). I know there are flaws in the current suites, but I don't see it worth my
Threat of 508/ADA suit (Score:2)
That's tough if you are a student or if you need your computer for work related activities. Believe me, I've been there.
I think that's part of the problem: employers are willing to pay inflated prices for assistive tech in order to deter disability discrimination lawsuits.
recent HPR episode (Score:2)
A couple months ago there was a great hacker public radio episode where a linux dev told stories about working on accessibility and then cried for helpful volunteers because everyone in the corporate financed linux accessibility community is/was getting downsized.
It was a recording of a speech at a con.
It was an excellent talk, about average sound quality for HPR (in other words not great, but tolerable) and probably in the top 1% of HPR episodes WRT content.
I can't successfully google for it, if someone el
Desktop Linux is for geeks (Score:2)
I'm sure this review proves the suitability of Linux for all other visually impaired users with computing science degrees.
Meanwhile, for all other visually impaired users...
Six hundred bucks is peanuts (Score:1)
"Putting together a similar set of tools on Windows would cost at least US$600, about double what a retail copy of Windows itself costs"
Why the hell is it compared to the cost of the OS? This is like saying, "Broken leg? How much would you pay for crutches? $50, $100? That's twice what you paid for *pants*. Here's this FREE solution of a stick and some duct tape!"
It's great that it's becoming at least partially commoditized, but, really, for something that you will actually use every day that could save you
How about tetraplegic? (Score:1)
It happened to my friend. No hands, no legs.
First we fixed phone: after some research with Android (not really Linux) we ended up
with 5 year old bluetooth car installation: the only one where you can make calls without
any keys, just sound.
Computer is next: some tests were made using joystick (manipulated by head movement)
installed on wheelchair. Not really fun.
There are some expensive monitors with build in infrared cameras tracking eye movement.
Any experience on Linux desktop? Any advice what works?
Thanks,
$300? (Score:2)
A retail copy of Windows costs $300? I guess you're including the price of the netbook?
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A retail copy of Windows costs $300? I guess you're including the price of the netbook?
Seriously, how do people keep not getting this?
Microsoft Store, Retail Windows 7 Home Premium - US$299.99 (download) [microsoftstore.com]. And no, I don't think they throw in a netbook.
Can you get it cheaper elsewhere? Sure you can! Even Ultimate is less than $300 on Newegg.
That does not mean that Windows does not cost $300 - it only means that you'd be daft to pay Microsoft's full price.
Blind Specific Distro? (Score:2)
I was actually looking for information on this for a blind friend. Is there Linux distro anyone knows of with these features already installed and turned on?
Demo of accessibility on Debian (Score:2)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Does it matter? (Score:5, Informative)
And I'll add that this is important because, as a sighted developer who once worked on a website specifically intended for blind users, I know it's ridiculously easy to make really bad assumptions about what blind people want. That design with a list of options arranged to be read first is great for a front page, but gets really annoying after it's read on every page....
Sighted people suck.
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An interesting and related problem: A website aimed at the deaf took the time to provide video of their site translated into ASL. At first glance, this seems stupid - many deaf people can read perfectly well. But it actually turns out that people who were born deaf or became deaf in early childhood have significant literacy problems, especially if they learned ASL first, because reading English engages the auditory senses.
Asking a sighted person on how to design properly for the blind, or a hearing person o
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Because it lends credibility to him writing an article about accessibility, which is mostly about the blind when it comes to computers.
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I hope you did play WoW, just to piss them off.
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Because it lends credibility to him writing an article about accessibility, which is mostly about the blind when it comes to computers.
Why? Better lobbying than other groups?
There are far more severely rheumatic people than blind people, yet little effort is put into giving options to reduce mouse movements (and especially moving between keyboard and mouse) or being able to reassign keys to reachable ones.
Then there are mental issues - another large group. Some effort is put in, but not enough. Some people with dementia may have to learn how to use the computer ever day. If the user can't learn to adjust to the computer, the computer h
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All of those are requirements for accessibility. You're right that being accessible is about more than just about blindness or low vision. This article, however, seems to be pretty specifically focused on the screen-reader issue of accessibility.
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Because as a person with good site your views on accessibility features are quite different then someone who is blind. A webpage using graphic as text without a good alt tag could be the difference between a good ui and a bad one. Or even just the fact that someone when a form requires something to be filled in it may just be in a different color. Most UI enhancements are visual. I myself have good eye site, and operate my computer with the speakers on Mute, So my perception of a good UI is based on
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Dye in a fire.
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What is more irrelevant is the CS degree.
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It is proof positive that he has relevant experience. He's not just guessing what it's like to depend on accessibility tools.
Re:Buy A Mac (Score:5, Interesting)
Odd, being highly visually impared, I've found Windows to be much easier to work with than a Mac. Mind you, I'm not completely blind, so I don't know about how well the screen reader software is (though, in my experience, it isn't so bad). Also, without doing anything special, I can use the keyboard for almost everything in Windows. The only Mac user I know, who uses the keyboard for everything, had to do quite a lot of tweaking to set it up.
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What tools/features are you using for Windows? I'm legally blind, -22 diopters of correction for each eye. What I'm currently using is a modified dark theme so that I can use the built in accelerated magnifier (I can't tolerate bright themes) and I've mapped the magnifier to win+mouse wheel to make it more like compiz. I'm also nearly entirely hotkey driven, I use the mouse very little for every day tasks.
Of course there are so many applications that don't follow the windows colour scheme, even the built
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-26 here.
I use the magnifier (in certain situations), and then the standard font/color change tool. I prefer Windows XP over Vista/7 because you can make input elements separate from other things, whereas in Vista/7 many non-input-elements have the same color as input elements :-(
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I know, the hard coded font stuff pisses me off to no end.
I need win7 for my music production software, it needs a lot of RAM and WinXP's magnifier isn't full screen, doesn't use acceleration so it's a pretty rubbish magnifier for me personally. I really wish I could do what I do, apart from work, in Linux (gaming, music prod) because then I could use KDE/Gnome which is a lot better with themes, and Compiz's magnifier is really nice.
Oddly enough, Windows 8 has much better theme control, although it's bloody
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Yes, it runs in the family.
That's nice to hear, about Win8
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OS X is still the only OS that doesn't have any way to uniformly scale all UI elements up (say, to 150%). Which is a major pain if you have poor eyesight, or just want to use a Mac Mini with a 30" TV.
Re:Linux is awful... (Score:5, Funny)
Anybody who isn't on welfare switched to OS X years ago.
Yep, even my blind aunt agrees. She thinks it's sad Apple ran out of cat names, and that Swahili was an odd choice, but "Ubuntu" is her new favourite OS.