Windows vs. Ubuntu — Dell's Verdict 718
Barence writes "Remember how Dell put up a website declaring Ubuntu was safer than Windows, only to later change its mind? Well, the company has gotten right back into the Windows vs. Ubuntu debate with a highly sophisticated website arguing the pros and cons of each OS. People should choose Windows, argues Dell, if: they are already using Windows, are familiar with Windows, or are new to computers. People should choose Ubuntu if they're interested in open-source programming. Brilliant."
Repositories for the win (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a Mac user, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ubuntu to someone new to using computers. It really is as simple to use as Windows, and repositories are huge win for usability and security.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I think there are a couple Linux distributions that really are "ready" and will actually provide a better experience for normal stuff (e.g. web browsing, email, word processing). A bunch of free apps, kept up to date through a single updater, all free.
However, I've still had some problems with hardware support in a couple cases (each Ubuntu release seems to fix some problems and introduce others) and you're still missing some commercial packages that might be vital for a lot of users (e.g. Photoshop
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
However, I've still had some problems with hardware support in a couple cases (each Ubuntu release seems to fix some problems and introduce others)
At this point, Linux hardware problems are not significantly different from Windows hardware problems (e.g. a fresh install of Linux on any given PC is at least as likely to run fine as Windows, probably more likely since more up-to-date drivers are included), but they're harder to fix when they do occur due to lack of direct manufacturer support.
In Windows it's usually "go download the driver from the manufacturer's site", in Linux that's less likely to be an option, and if it is, the installation process
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I agree with you. I would try to find out what someone wanted to do with their computer before recommending anything. But I thing Ubuntu has got killer features for the novice wanting to do internet-centric stuff.
Novices probably don't need Photoshop, Krita seemed pretty good to me when I played around with it.
Great opportunity for Linux... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you look at it functionally, the iTunes app store is little more than a repo, and Linux has repos to beat all. I'm so horribly spoiled by tools like yum that I'm personally very remiss to EVER leave what's available at a click...
Most of good salesmanship in business is in positioning - how you compare your products to others out there can leave a very strong impression as it lets potential users immediately grasp many of the capabilities (and limitations) of your product immediately without them actually having to learn what those capabilities are.
Now that Apple has everybody understanding what a repo is, we should just rename repos to "App Stores" (or whatever Apple hasn't trademarked) so that people immediately get just how easy and capable it is to use. More so, because Linux' "app stores" are open-ended - anybody can add whatever App Repos they want!
The only thing I'd (STRONGLY!) suggest is some way to filter out all the libraries and stuff that only developers care about so that end users can avoid getting confused by 7,000 libraries that they wouldn't understand anyway. My thoughts are that packages need to describe themselves as two-stage categories: EG: Libraries, ProgrammingTools, Applications and divide each of these categories further, EG: Libraries/Graphics, Applications/Office, Applications/Games, etc. with a default of "Applications" showing.
Lastly, building in a SIMPLE payment tool so that applications can be purchased (and licenses tracked) with yum/apt...
Put all this together, and suddenly Linux has an EXCELLENT commercial alternative to the Apple "App Store".
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a Mac user, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ubuntu to someone new to using computers.
Do you imply the scenario of a newly bought PC with Linux preinstalled? Because aside from that, recommending Linux to someone runs a fairly significant risk of them finding out that some piece of hardware is not supported, or supported poorly (usually it's either WiFi or sound, though more recent kernels have caused some havoc with wired networking).
This can be accounted for by checking hardware compatibility lists, of course, but then you have to forget about buying Best Buy junk, and willing to spend tim
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a Mac user, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ubuntu to someone new to using computers. It really is as simple to use as Windows, and repositories are huge win for usability and security.
I'm an advanced user and I don't every want to know what a repository is. My mom definitely doesn't give a shit.
You don't have to know what a repo is. The default works just fine for 99.999% of users. However, if you are curious and want something the repo doesn't offer, you are free to add whatever repos you like.
Then again, an "advanced" user would know this.
Re:Repositories for the win (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an advanced user and I don't every want to know what a repository is. My mom definitely doesn't give a shit.
So call it an "app store", except all the apps are free. Your mom will eat it up.
Re:Repositories for the win (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Repositories for the win (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again, the average joe probably has no need or desire to install Eclipse in the first place, so maybe that software center isn't such a bad idea.
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Uh, dude, it's what allows Ubuntu to have a (free!) app store sitting right there in the menu bar. You don't need to know what it is to use it. Adding apps is as simple as searching or navigating by category and clicking 'install'. It's seriously easy to use, and has big advantages for security. The apps in the default repository are screened, and cover most things you'd ever want to do. No more searching the internet, downloading random app that 'looks ligit', and istalling it manually.
I wish Macs had some
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You don't need to know what a repository is, you just go to Ubuntu Software Centre and double click to install apps
Re:Repositories for the win (Score:5, Interesting)
.
I bought a real nice Dell Inspiron N series laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed. I think I'm starting to win some hearts and minds here. Everyone who uses it, loves it.
Re: (Score:2)
You're not an advanced user, you're a masochist. And so's your mom.
Would you happen to have her number?
Typical Microsoft price lobbying (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't change your mind we'll stop providing you with cheap licenses and Gold Partner status and cut off your MSDN subscription. I worked for a couple of Gold Partners and it's the same everywhere, Microsoft uses it's monopoly status and high prices to force people into compliance.
Ubuntu is good enough for most people especially when pre-installed on a computer. Unless you're just plain stupid you will be able to work with it and do whatever you need to do. Sadly Windows is so ingrained in users that are resistant to change that it's hard to change platforms for a lot of people.
Re:Typical Microsoft price lobbying (Score:5, Insightful)
Puffing smoke (Score:3, Insightful)
If you don't change your mind we'll stop providing you with cheap licenses and Gold Partner status and cut off your MSDN subscription
Talk like this wastes time.
Walmart carried the flag for OEM Linux in big box retail for the better part of a decade.
It could not solve the problem of marketing Linux to the masses. It could not consistently undercut OEM Windows on price - and in the end it could not justify maintaining a dual inventory and support structure for a product line whose sales barely showed a pulse
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If you install Compiz's settings manager from the repositories, you can turn on a plugin that does exactly that. It's aptly named Window Previews under Extras and its settings are configurable.
Looks more like (Score:2)
os=ubuntu;
Re: (Score:2)
#!/bin/sh
os=`uname`
if [ "$os" = "Linux ]; then
echo "Use Linux"
else
echo "Use cygwin"
fi
Configurability or Games? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Configurability or Games? (Score:5, Informative)
Also note how it's Windows XP they're displaying.
You are familiar with WINDOWS and do not want to learn new programs for email, word processing etc
Does that mean that Dell is willing to sell them Windows XP so they don't have to learn Windows 7 ?
BTW, people using OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc don't have to learn new programs.
TFA should be tagged informative (Score:5, Insightful)
Really. It hurts Linux when people log in and ask for MS Word. It is important to be sure your customer is getting what he wants.
The only part that is gonna get flamed is the last bit on Windows Section: "use windows if you are new to using computers". They should have left this bit out of both sides, IMO. Windows is good to newbies because they can get help more easily from friends, but it is not easier to use than Ubuntu. Just the idea of the software center like ubuntu's goes miles ahead for those who are new to computers
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Oblig. FTFY
Really, it doesn't. The people that can tell the difference can figure it out.
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Re:TFA should be tagged informative (Score:4, Informative)
That's about it. OO Write has been far superior to Word on long technical documentation (doesn't crash, isn't slow, TOC entries are simple, styles are sane). OO Calc is quicker and easier at inserting large amounts of data from text / delimited files. OO Calc and Write can open MS Office 2007 files but MS Office XP and 2003 can't. We have the MS Office "converter" installed on everyone's machine for those 2007 / 2010 documents, and it gives poor results and is the source of a lot of headaches for my department to support.
And then there's the usability issue (at least for me) -- I've been using office apps since GEOS, so Quattro Pro, AmiPro, Lotus 1-2-3, etc menus are familiar to me. I dislike personalized menus and especially dislike the ribbon. I dislike the slow load times of Office in general and the frequent patches / crashes.
Re:TFA should be tagged informative (Score:5, Interesting)
Nope your wrong.
I use Open Office but it really isn't all that much like the current version of Word.
Calc has real issues compared to Excel.
For the Price OO is really very good but it isn't Office.
Also some people don't want to have to "figure it out" they just want to get the job done.
So, no you are wrong.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah. If you're new to computers (who is, these days?), you should use a command line. Seriously, you should. There's no more intuitive way to use a computer than typing in commands as text and having it respond in kind, expect perhaps speech recognition. Compared to that a graphical user interface is far harder to use.
When I used
New to computers (Score:5, Insightful)
I would argue with the "new to using computers" bullet. If you're new to computing, exactly why would it be easier to learn Windows than Ubuntu? Both have their arcane peculiarities and unique paradigms you'd have to get accustomed to.
Hell, if you are totally new to computers and have no interest in learning much of anything about how they work, I'd suggest getting a Mac. Then you need never worry yourself about the internals, it "just works," as they say.
I say this as someone who doesn't use a Mac. Apple built their reputation on being idiot-proof, and as far as I can tell, they live up.
Re:New to computers (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're new to using computers, chances are you don't have a lot of highly technical friends -- but they'll probably have some familiarity with Windows, so you can ask them for help. The new user is more likely to go to the store and buy Encarta on CD, and when they take it home and it doesn't work in Linux, then they're going to be confused and/or pissed off. There is more to "using a computer" than hitting keys and clicking mice, and that's something that often gets lost in these discussions. When your issue is wifi compatability, how are you going to debug your issue without familiarity with A) web search, and B) at least some idea of what question you need to be searching for to get relevant information. The barrier to entry is a lot lower for J Random User who just uses Windows like "everyone else" than the guy who wants to be different for some, probably misguided, reason.
Re:New to computers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:New to computers (Score:4, Insightful)
Point #1 The thing about using linux (even kidified linux), is that it's going to be harder to find the answer to how you do something that's not obvious to a novice user.
You've GOT to be kidding. Where do you get answers to Windows problems?? Every time I go to Windows help I get "help" from the marketing department. If a new user is running Linux, they've got somebody who knows the OS that installed it for them; no novice is going to install any OS.
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Hell, if you are totally new to computers and have no interest in learning much of anything about how they work, I'd suggest getting a Mac. Then you need never worry yourself about the internals, it "just works," as they say.
Somehow I'm not surprised that Dell doesn't offer that advice.
It's all about application support (Score:3, Informative)
A vast majority of the software programs you pick up in Staples, Best Buy, etc are going to be made for Windows. Once hardware gets a bit faster and makes virtualization relatively transparent, this will cease to matter. You'll just optionally buy Windows software support for another $150.
I'm hoping for some badass sandboxing. Imagine automatically launching an entire OS for untrusted operations, like web browsing, or having a few virtual machines running concurrently to provide different levels of access t
Re:New to computers (Score:4, Insightful)
I would argue with the "new to using computers" bullet. If you're new to computing, exactly why would it be easier to learn Windows than Ubuntu? Both have their arcane peculiarities and unique paradigms you'd have to get accustomed to.
There are three reasons that jump out at me as an Ubuntu user since 2006.
Firstly, Ubuntu users are generally assumed to be computer-literate and to have deliberately chosen Ubuntu, which implies that they know the ins and outs of Linux distributions and technologies. This leads to help files that are unintelligible to anyone who doesn't know a thing about Linux - amarok is "a qt media player for KDE", for example, and if you want to install a new chess program you can choose between "X11" and "Gnome" versions. (what?) Similarly, help files and forums have people running shell commands and editing configuration files - that's just voodoo to a totally new computer user, and if nothing else ingraining a "just run whatever the forum tells you as administrator" mindset is not good. All of this is ok if the users are knowledgeable - but these ones aren't.
Secondly, people who don't know a lot about computers are the ones that really need shrinkwrap software to work for them. They're the ones who, not realising that there's a significant difference (a computer's a computer, right?) will be disappointed when nothing happens when they put the disc in.
Thirdly, if you've never used a computer before then you're going to have some problems. When you ring up tech support for the program you bought, or ask your friend or colleague for help, you don't want the answer to be "what's Ubuntu?". Everyone knows someone who is familiar with Windows, and most towns have an evening class to teach totally new users. Not many people who've never used a computer before know any Linux geeks.
Re:New to computers (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a pretty tech savvy user and even I had trouble with Linux when I converted one of my machines over to Ubuntu a while back (I finally just gave up). The documentation is absolutely horrid. Without a good understanding of how Linux in general and Ubuntu in particular does things, it seems like a real chore to do even the simplest thing (I never could get it to recognize dual monitors or get the right screen resolution). And one of the worst things for me was dealing with all the distros and UI's out there and even trying to decide if a given piece of Linux software would work for me. I'm still not clear on some of it. Will KDE software run on gnome? Will gnome software run on KDE? Is the difference just cosmetic? Will a given piece of software run on all distros, or only some? Is the installation different for each distro?
I get headaches even remembering it.
Re: (Score:2)
I'll take your word for it! I've just known a lot of Mac users, and they aren't very technical people. They seem to have a much lower level of frustration than the non-technical Windows users I deal with. Whether that's up to the platform or the individual person, I don't know. The Mac users just seem to be hassled less, overall, by the quirks of their platform.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Not entirely accurate. (Score:5, Interesting)
For most users *any* platform will do. Be it, Windows, Linux or OS X.
Most users will use the computer for Facebook, Twitter, MSN messenger and such. Unless you are a gamer or absolutely need to run a Windows-Only application, ANY OS will be able to get the job done, Windows being the less secure of them for non-techies.
Ubuntu screenshot (Score:2)
Clearly, this is Jobs' fault. (Score:2)
On the positive side (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sorry if this comes off as flamebait but... (Score:2, Flamebait)
AFAIK there should be a training requirement for operating anything other than a kiosk-mode system. _Especially_ basic security.
On some level though that's being handled by learning to use computers in the school system so a large amount of this stuff will fall off when
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why the heck would they have Macintosh there? They don't sell Macintosh. They do sell computers that run Windows and Ubuntu though.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> AFAIK there should be a training requirement for operating anything other than a kiosk-mode system. _Especially_ basic security.
Not really, this thinking is a result of internalizing the "Microsoft Lie" that all computers (by definition) must be as unreliable and insecure as Windows. Which is forgivable since they have spend Sagans of dollars in subtle campaigns to make this assumption almost universal. But it is indeed a lie. However it is the single most important key to their success. So long as
Is it just me? (Score:2)
Is it just me, or did anyone else get the impression that Dell did Ubuntu a disservice by showing it's screenshot as a smaller image.
Seriously, check it out:
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/windows_or_ubuntu?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs [dell.com]
Ubuntu's image is 288x162. Windows is 271x204. A bit narrower, but a lot taller.
It makes Ubuntu look like the smaller "beginner" or "toy" choice, which is wholly inaccurate IMHO.
Their reasons are valid: if you're tied to existing Windows apps
PIA (Score:3, Interesting)
Ubuntu 9 was fine, but it was missing a couple libraries that were dependencies for Fuse 2.8. Not to mention that SMB is broke in 10, the GUI is just awful because it doesn't allow for easy 'run as root'. Want to edit smb.conf, you are SOL unless you go through CLI or create a custom link to your favorite editor. I have no problem going CLI only either, except that in Ubuntu 10 everything has been moved into a slew of *.d directories. As a newbie to 10, where the hell is anything you are looking for? You use the find command and good ol ubuntu leaves out crucial syntax points in their man pages...Often my biggest issue in Ubuntu is not so much that I dont know what I want to do, but rather, I cant find what I want to do. I ahve pretty advanced knowledge of firewalls and routers but WTF do you do when you cannot find the conf file or force it to reload?
For now I think I am going to be sticking with redhat derivatives...seems to be more support there.
If ubuntu wants to win over more windows folk, they really really need to fix that dammed GUI, or at the least work on encouraging the community to be more active. I have 3 separate threads asking for help on either iSCSI, SMB, or NFS. Only got 2 hits and they only posted twice before going MIA. You would think that Ubuntu would be better at supporting communication between windows and Linux.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
... the GUI is just awful because it doesn't allow for easy 'run as root'. Want to edit smb.conf, you are SOL unless you go through CLI or create a custom link to your favorite editor....>
Well, I learned that you can use the CLI and type 'sudo nautilus' to browse directories as root, and then you can still click on things to edit them.
That said, it was a PITA to learn that, and it would be *way* easier if the editor either had a "save as root" option, or the user-level file browser had a right click "open as root" option.
If that were the case, the file browser should tell you about that when you try to save a read only copy of a file.
Honestly though, they should just do it like windows. Let
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not just open another terminal, sudo chmod on the file to allow you to save it and the chmod it back?
Are you joking? I'm going to rant now because I didn't see an indication of sarcasm, so:
Because that's a pain in the ass. I'm editing a goddamn text file. I don't want to use the terminal at all - I just said that you shouldn't have to use a terminal just to edit a text file, and I think thats pretty reasonable. I just want to open it, edit it, and save it. If I need elevated permissions, it should tell me and ask for a password.
And because I haven't learned how to use chmod yet, so I'd have to go look that
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
editing smb.conf yourself is far more technical than opening a terminal and running a single command. If you made editing system files easier you'd make it easier for people to seriously screw up their computer.
Oh and right click on a file, select "Open with other Application" Click the arrow beside "Use custom command" and type in "gksudo gedit". it will open in gedit as root. And once you've done that once you can just right-click the file and select "open with gksudo" after that to open your "root editor
trying to buy more of the N-series (Score:2)
The tragedy is that if you try to "Shop for Ubuntu laptops" from the Dell Ubuntu [dell.co.uk] page that the example from the TFA is linked to - every single option is Microsoft Windows!!! There are NO Ubuntu products for sale! You can't even deselect the operating system.
I bought Dell Nseries laptops for my business in the UK 2 years ago when they were on sale at Dell, mostly XPS M1330N and 1525N - we have no upgrade option at all and cannot replace with Dell. Everytime I ring a Dell account manager, they just say "W
Windows vs. Ubuntu — Dell's Verdict (Score:2)
feedback (Score:2)
Just wanted to point out to everyone that there is a handy-dandy animatey feedback link on the page as well. :)
Gross oversimplification, but . . . . (Score:2)
The computer in our guest room runs Ubuntu.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think I detect a little arm twisting on the part of MS here, but nobody is surprised at that.
When Dell came out with their pre-installed Ubuntu machines a few years back, I bought an E520N the day they became available so as to vote with my wallet that this was a very good idea for Dell.
Thank you (Score:3, Interesting)
Yesterday I installed Ubuntu. I can't install the language patch (click on it in Opera, garbage on my screen. right click and save as, now I have it saved but how to install it??) I can't use bittorrent, (can't install wine because I don't know how to install a package handler because of the above problem)
That said, I find Ubintu easier to understand, more intuitive, and friendlier overall than Windows XP. I've used Windows since version 3.11 and never could positively compare Linux to Windows until today. I will now recommend Ubuntu to anyone who asks and I want to thank the linux community for making this OS possible.
tldr: Thank you.
Re:Thank you (Score:5, Informative)
I can't install the language patch (click on it in Opera, garbage on my screen. right click and save as, now I have it saved but how to install it??)
Um, double-click it? I assume it's a .deb file that you've downloaded, anyway, because if it's something else, then it is not what you need.
Though why not install it through the package manager in the first place? Applications -> Ubuntu Software Center, then use the built-in search to find what you want.
Here [psychocats.net] is a more detailed treatment of Ubuntu software installation options, though most likely the Software Center will cover all your practical needs.
I can't use bittorrent
If you're using the most recent Ubuntu, you should have a BitTorrent client installed out of the box. It's called "Transmission", look it up in Applications -> Networking.
an't install wine because I don't know how to install a package handler because of the above problem
Again, you do it through the package manager.
PORN! I'm surprised no one has mentioned it... (Score:5, Interesting)
On his blog, Ken Rockwell decried the lack of serious photographic hobbyists who actually take pictures. Most of them just buy equipment and geek out over it. He referred to photography as just something that, to paraphrase, "guys do on their computers in between porn sessions."
True that.
How many guys go looking for porn from time to time? A *very* high percentage. And does the search for porn lead to the dangerous back alleys of the 'net? Yep. The relatively lower number of viruses and other malware targeted at all flavors of Linux is a *major* selling point.
If I were setting up a computer for someone who even occasionally looks for porn online, I'd choose Ubuntu over Windows in a heartbeat.
Now, seriously, what percentage of the population do you think falls into that "occasionally looks for porn" demographic? Linux should have at least that big a market share.
Put yourself in the user's head (Score:5, Interesting)
You and I both know that Ubuntu is a far superior operating system on so many levels. It's more secure, it's way faster, it runs on more platforms, you can modify it entirely to your liking, it comes with 'real' software, it's free and it's evolving 2x per year.
For the average user, however, the reality is that many are petrified of their computers. All they know is that it's really bad to screw up and that they will never figure out how to make them run right if they do. They never open manuals or read help files. That is the reality out there - lets' get used to it.
With that said, Lucid Lynx is, arguably, the most user-friendly operating system I have ever used. Coupled with incredible speed, lighting installation and simple interface, it truly stands out for its polish. There's more: getting apps, for the 'newbie' is just a click, a search and a one-click install. Try doing that with a licenced Microsoft Product. You'll be futzing with licence keys and compatibility issues for hours.
Obviously, Linux Mint and others are very polished too, while also taking a run at combining proprietary software with non-proprietary software.
In short, Dell's right: if you're new to computing, install Ubuntu. If you have legacy MS apps, bend over!!
Windows for new users? Oh please, no. (Score:3, Interesting)
Recommending that people "new to computers" use Windows is the worst advice imaginable. We've given Microsoft over 20 horrible years, and they have managed to make computing almost boring in that time. It is well past time to hand the torch somewhere else...ANYWHERE else. The last thing we need is another generation who thinks Windows is what it means to "use a computer".
Even in 1990, the power and potential of machines was staggering. And I'm sorry, but Microsoft has done NOTHING with that potential. Software is still overly-expensive, locked-in, ugly, and crashing, and impressively it seems that basic tasks are even slower today than on machines of the 80s. It really wouldn't have taken much effort to bring the world way forward, to make PCs absolutely marvelous devices. Instead of realizing the potential, these incredibly sophisticated machines still have pretty basic uses, and I find that sad.
We need another generation, the people "new to computers", to use something new. Let them tinker without the chains of some stupid monopoly, and build a better machine.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
Irons with labels that tell you to remove your clothes before attempting to iron them are being truthful, too - but anyone who need a label to tell them that is probably too stupid to be allowed to get near an iron.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a terrible parallel to Ubuntu vs. Windows. For what it's worth, I'm a long time user of Linux - started off with an early SuSE then moved to Slackware. These days, I use either Gentoo (preferred) or Ubuntu (anything other than my main dev box I can't be bothered setting up Gentoo on). And you know what? I'd recommend Windows 7 to most people. I have it on my laptop and though I personally sometimes run into limitations on it, they're not limitations most people will encounter. I can't see my mother complaining that she can't open a bash shell for example.
Ubuntu is probably the easiest Linux out there, but it's not as easy as Windows 7. Some of that results from the world in general being set up for Windows, rather than for Linux, and some of it is due to Ubuntu not being as slick or hassle-free as Windows 7. If you want security, then people are less likely to hack your Linux box than they are a Windows one, that's for sure, and you're not very likely to pick up a virus or be tricked into running some trojan. So as the summary states, there are arguments for and against. But it's pretty far from the truth to start talking about people who don't know enough to remove their clothes before ironing. I need a lot from my OS so I use Linux. But if I just wanted to surf, write emails and do some light word-processing, I have to say Windows 7 would be fine for me. My laptop which is primarily used for those things, has Windows 7 on it for this reason. If I need to do anything more on it, I just open a remote shell to my main system and use Screens and that's good enough for me.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
From my perspective, if all you need to do is surf, write emails and do some light word processing, then Ubuntu is far and away a better choice than windows 7.
I chose to dual boot ubuntu and windows 7 for the following reasons:
It cost me nothing because I had 10 win7 licenses from an MSDN subscription paid for by my previous employer.
I like to play video games, windows has more of them, and wine is generally a painful experience when it does work.
I need to keep my Visual Studio/C#/ASP.net skills fresh in case I need to find a new job and can't find a local java position quickly enough.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It cost me nothing because I had 10 win7 licenses from an MSDN subscription paid for by my previous employer.
So these licenses are owned by a previous employer? It is my understanding that if the company owned it, your rights to use it were lost when you left the company. (from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=2b1504e6-0bf1-46da-be0e-85cc792c6b9d#Overview [microsoft.com] )
And playing games on an MSDN OS is explicitly forbidden in the FAQ.
Using the software in any other way, such as for doing email, playing games, or editing a document is another use and is not covered by the MSDN Subscription license.
(from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx [microsoft.com] )
If you're looking for a valid reason to run Windows, "just because you happen to ha
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It cost me nothing because I had 10 win7 licenses from an MSDN subscription paid for by my previous employer.
So these licenses are owned by a previous employer? It is my understanding that if the company owned it, your rights to use it were lost when you left the company. (from http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=2b1504e6-0bf1-46da-be0e-85cc792c6b9d#Overview [microsoft.com] )
And playing games on an MSDN OS is explicitly forbidden in the FAQ.
Using the software in any other way, such as for doing email, playing games, or editing a document is another use and is not covered by the MSDN Subscription license.
(from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/cc150618.aspx [microsoft.com] )
If you're looking for a valid reason to run Windows, "just because you happen to have an (unlicensed) copy" isn't it.
That makes it pretty difficult to develop software for an OS if you're not allowed to use the OS.
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I think you make a a valid point, in a way, but there are a couple of things to consider. I'm guessing (perhaps wrongly) that you were already pretty familiar with Windows when you started using W7. That makes it seem easier to use than it is. If you are used to something else entirely (Mac OS in my case), or nothing at all, Ubuntu is just as simple. In fact, I find Ubuntu slightly more straightforward than Windows 7, and I dabble in both very casually.
The application management in Ubuntu is superb, providi
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
Eh? What exactly is harder in Ubuntu than it is on Windows?
I mean, just consider this problem I had: I was trying to run STALKER: Shadow of Cernobyl on my Windows desktop. It refused to work; my monitor would just pop up an error message saying that the refresh rate was higher than it could display when I tried to run the game. How could I fix that? There were no Windows monitor "drivers" for the monitor (it's old and shitty), so there didn't seem to be any way to force Windows to use a lower maximum refresh rate. I couldn't find an option that would force STALKER to use a lower refresh rate, either.
Eventually I had to download a sketchy third-party program named Reforce that, despite being written for Windows 2000/XP, managed to do its job in Windows 7; I used it to manually set the highest refresh rate to something my monitor could handle, and STALKER finally respected that.
That's not "just works"; other people completely gave up on the problem (STALKER had just been on sale on Steam, so there was a thread about this in the forums). Sure, it was due to a combination of old hardware and missing drivers, but it still stumped quite a few people who otherwise use Windows.
Of course, in Ubuntu this just isn't a problem because there's no games at all, but that's another issue entirely.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Funny)
Eh? What exactly is harder in Ubuntu than it is on Windows?
Opening a document someone sent you from work in Word 2007 and editing it in Word 2007. Where's the ribbon?
The reply to this is not to say, "well, then, just open it in Open Office." It may look similar to its version in Word, it may not. When Open Office looks exactly like Word 2007+, and works exactly the same way as well, then you can ask your question again.
How about people who have used Outlook for years in an office environment? Nothing, not even Evolution, will look exactly the same and work identically.
You've obviously not dealt with people for whom moving a icon from one place on the desktop to another results in complaints that "my Windows is broken," usually followed by, "I can't do my work until it's fixed."
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't get it.
If you want security, then people are less likely to hack your Linux box than they are a Windows one, that's for sure, and you're not very likely to pick up a virus or be tricked into running some trojan... if I just wanted to surf, write emails and do some light word-processing, I have to say Windows 7 would be fine for me.
If that's all you wanted to do, any flavor of Linux/KDE would be fine for anybody, without having to worry about your machine being infected like you would with Windows.
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But if I just wanted to surf, write emails and do some light word-processing, I have to say Windows 7 would be fine for me.
That is because you are a geek. For the average users it precisely the other way round.
Linux gives them something that just works as much as any OS, is secure (and therefore easy because they do not have to think about things like anti-virus), is easier to install software on, and it is safer (you can research whether a download is safe, they cannot)
On the other hand they should use Windows if they need specialist software that is not available for Linux: this could be anything from a Reuters terminal (they
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
Like Windows!=newbie-friendly. The windows taskbar lacks discoverabilty, because practically everything is jammed into one menu (the start menu), or indecipherable little icons (system tray). Ubuntu's menus say what they are, by giving textual clues. For a newbie, it's actually better to have more on the screen with actual writing than a lot of icons.
Many aspects of the Windows interface are a kludge to differentiate it from the classic Mac OS, with many inconsistencies and non-intuitive behaviours. Linux distros should not copy it for the sake of usability.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Interesting)
Must a man seek alternatives with a reason other than a head full of curiosity?
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The question is, if you have no idea what Windows is, then why did you choose it?
See how everything's different when you switch the question around?
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Because all these people told me that Windows 7 was "their" idea.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
You typically don't really "choose" Windows when you buy a PC. It's just there unless you ask otherwise (and even know that you can so ask).
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
That is the exact point here. Dell is telling customers which OS they should choose so they are capable to make the choice. Personally I'm a little bit surprised they didn't note the games, but casual people buying a computer don't necessarily know that they need Windows for their apps to work. Dell is just helping these casual users.
The only problem I have with Dell's EU page is that it's been so oversimplified it loses any meaning.
I find it curious that Ubuntu has two bullet points and yet from Dell's page on Ubuntu [dell.com] they have several positive caveats about Ubuntu that don't even get mentioned here. For example:
6) Ubuntu is secure
According to industry reports, Ubuntu is unaffected by the vast majority of viruses and spyware.
Why isn't there a bullet point for using Ubuntu if you just want a machine to browse the internet? Could Dell at least toss Ubuntu a bone and say "Linux currently suffers from less viruses than Windows"?
On top of that, why can I only pick two laptops with Ubuntu on them [dell.com]?
Why do you even have a page for Windows 7 vs Ubuntu when I have to buying one of these two machines in the first place?
Dell is telling customers which OS they should choose so they are capable to make the choice.
Wrong. Dell is telling people not to use Ubuntu. Walk down the street and pick out a hundred random people and ask them if they are interested in programming open source. They don't even say "if you are interested in free open source software" they say "open source programming." Do you think you'd even find one person interested in actually programming open source? That's basically what Dell's "comprehensive" Ubuntu list amounted to.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
...but even for that relatively simple job there are big problems with Ubuntu.
I've never had a problem surfing the web using any Linux distro, much less Ubuntu. This includes my days as a linux n00b when I had no understanding of the structure of the filesystem, didn't realize the advantages of a package manager, and feared the terminal. Browsing the web is NOT an issue for Ubuntu, and when compared to the heightened risk of malware/virus infection on a comparable Windows machine I find this to be an odd statement.
When I first visited Linux Hater, I thought I was dealing with extreme ignorance.
My first exposure to Linux Hater was your link, which led to a page where a lunatic is ranting about a font and declaring ogg sucks because it isn't mp3. I think your initial thoughts about that blog were correct.
users still need to have in-depth knowledge to do basic stuff, like install new applications
You consider clicking the 'Applications' menu and scrolling to and clicking 'Ubuntu Software Center' in-depth knowledge?
Dell is right.
Wrong. You've failed to measurably quantify what makes Ubuntu unsuitable for web browsing other than pointing to a blog with an anti-Linux agenda and making weird assertions about the level of expertise it takes to read and use a menu. Ubuntu is perfectly suitable for a wide variety of tasks, and surfing the web is certainly among them.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Informative)
Heh... I question the mods that marked you "insightful"...
I have in hand a .deb or an installer executable file for a given application. How does one install it?
Open up a file browser (i.e. Explorer window...) and double-click on the package in question. In most instances (including many of the games being ported right now...), at this point the GUI package installer will launch or the installer in the bundle will do the same thing. If it's self-contained (meaning no external dependencies) it'll only need the administrator password to install said app. If it's got dependencies, it'll typically explain those up-front or tell you about what it needs pre-installed, much like the story on MacOS or Windows.
What "in-depth" knowlege, I ask you?
Ditto for pretty much all the other "basic" things you do with computers.
And the same applies for pretty much any mainline and many niche Linux distributions.
You said you've been using it for 14 years? Funny...I would have thought you'd have known this was the case then.
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Any comment criticising Linux is bound to be controversial here and I really don't have the energy to respond to everyone who has called me a Microsoft shill.
The people who make a living from Linux, like myself, are those who are best placed to point out where it is lacking. On the server side or for embedded systems, it is great. For me, on my home computer, Linux is also great. Or at least better than the alternatives. But then I have a lot of experience with it, as I said. I'm one of the people who can d
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know how you can honestly say that with a straight face if you've actually used Linux on the desktop since 1996.
We've come a LONG way in terms of the desktop since then. The first "usable" Linux desktop I used was Caldera's Looking Glass Desktop (I think that was the name of it) back in 98-99. And I put usable in quotes for a reason: It was absolutely laughable compared to either current Gnome or KDE desktops of today. I can't speak for KDE's stability - I settled on Gnome quite a while ago, but it's every bit as stable as any current Windows or OSX desktop I've recently used.
Out of curiosity, what huge leaps in security are missing in Linux that are present in either OSX or Windows? I'm asking honestly.
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Ya know, I have had that exact same problem using MS Windows since forever. I recommend dropping that fr
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> Even with a user-friendly package manager you are still faced with a huge noise to signal ratio
> created by the large amount of applications that might do what you want, none of which are the
> application you've heard of.
So? Stop thinking in the Windows box. Do what I do in such a situation and just install every app that might do what I want and spend an hour or two playing with them. Once I pick one I remove the others. Doing that sort of promiscuous software installation on Windows would l
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There have been shiny happy installers for Linux since the 90s. If you want a Windows style
installation experience, it's there. Now a lot of the Linux "shareware" doesn't have this
sort of thing. That's where package managers come in. These are great and easy and very
automated.
Sorting out extra 3rd party freeware crap for Windows is a royal pain in the *ss. The sorts
of sites that like to present Windows software seem to be all hip deep in popups and spam to
the point where it's hard to know what link you shou
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Choose UBUNTU if:
That's not 'truthful', that's paid options that are actually marketing.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be stupid and bad service not to tell that to users, especially those who like things just to work and want to play games too.
You seem to agree with Dell. From TFS: People should choose Windows, argues Dell, if: they are already using Windows, are familiar with Windows, or are new to computers
Which would be everybody not using a Mac, and I say poppycock. KDE is very similar to Windows and has a tiny learning curve; it's trivial to switch. As to new users, I've had friends who never had computers before, and wound up infecting them over and over (despite Norton). After getting tired of reinstalling Windows for them I'd install Linux dual-boot and disable networking in Windows and not install Norton. Every single one liked Mandriva better, and they never got another virus.
As to games, there have been games on Linux for a long, long time. Most people don't play anything much more demanding than Solitaire. And guess what? The Megatouch game machines [meritgames.com] you see in bars use Linux for an OS, and you can buy those games, but they're Apple and Linux only, as they've been written for *nix. They'll run on your iPhone [megatouch.com] but not your Windows PC.
Most users would feel the same way when they thought that all their programs and games would work.
There are free alternatives to almost all Windows programs. Plus, you can run most Windows programs in Linux through Wine or similar emulators, but you can't run Linux programs in Windows at all, unless you have a Windows compiler to compile the (open) source files with.
I can't think of a single thing that would make Windows superior to Linux. Yes, it would be dishonest to make people think you can run WoW or IE in Linux, but why would anybody tell them that unless they just wanted them to hate Linux?
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Informative)
but it's not truthful... A new pc user should use ubuntu as it's EASIER than all version of windows.
Install software is as easy as a single click. A proper Laptop or PC requires Zero configuration. Windows pc's come all pre-configured, so to be fair the ubuntu pc should be 100% configured as well.
They can't get infected with 99.97% of all viruses and trojans out there which affect even seasoned professional PC users with multiple PHD's in PC use. Newbie Pc users click on everything and many trojans are designed to fool them. Those trojans are completely neutered under ubuntu.
Plus there is a ton of free software that is a single click away in the application store. Something that Windows lacks. They can find almost everything they need there.
BUT, it all lies on the back of having the ubuntu pc preconfigured like all windows boxes get.
Doing a half assed default ubuntu install is only designed to screw the newbie. Unfortunately dell will give them a half assed install.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:4, Informative)
> especially those who like things just to work
This pretty much rules out Windows completely.
Once you get beyond the myth of Windows "just working", it's time to consider Linux or Macintosh.
Windows is good for supporting something that is Windows only. This includes a lot of software and a small bit of hardware.
If you are a new user with no legacy expectations, Windows is the worst possible option.
Re:It's about being truthful (Score:5, Insightful)
A simple link to whylinuxisbetter.net [whylinuxisbetter.net] would have done the job (truth and all).
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Now there's an original sentiment. Did you sit up all night coming up with that, or was it just spur-of-the-moment brilliance prompted by an unrelated story?
I disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
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Last time I tried my parents on Linux (Ubuntu, openSuSE), I had problems with (1) Flash video, (2) Printing/Scanning with a Canon printer (took a long time of digging to find Linux drivers for it), and (3) Some minor sound glitches.
It was also actually slower than Windows 7, which was strange and surprised me. Not sure if it was just hardware/driver related.
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I set my parents up with an Ubuntu machine. On the desktop are icons for: Solitaire, Google, and Yahoo! Mail. They have not had a problem since I moved them to this setup.
Ever since I started reading slashdot parents have been used to portray the computer user with no knowledge of computers at all. I wonder for how long this will stay like that. I mean, at some point even slashdot-readers will get children.
Re:I disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
My 67 year old father built his own computer and installed hackintosh and kubuntu on it, and he has windows 7 running in a vm in paralells or something. My 92 year old grand mother is skyping with her 102 year old cousin across the pond. Things are changing :)
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At which point we become too busy to post much.
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I too set my parents up with Ubuntu, and they love it. They no longer get viruses, as my Dad puts it "it's more simple", it makes good use of their old computer's limited hardware and everything they love to do, they can do:
* Web browsing
* Checking email (Mum uses gmail, Dad uses Evolution)
* SIP (We use Ekiga for video chats)
* Storing and downloading photos
* My Mum plays all the games that come bundled with Ubuntu
* [luckily] their Epson multifunction printer