MSI Will Launch iPad Alternative 756
itwbennett writes "Underwhelmed by the iPad? Don't give up on tablets just yet, says blogger Peter Smith. MSI has a tablet coming in the second half of 2010 that measures up on price and size and addresses a lot of the iPad's most noted shortcomings. 'The iPad runs iPhone OS while the MSI runs Android,' writes Smith. 'That means the MSI will multitask of course, and Flash support in Android should be a given by launch time (though that isn't certain). It has a camera. It's running on an Nvidia Tegra2 chip which Ars Technica suggests puts it on par with the iPad's A4 as far as computing horsepower. And of course Android doesn't live in a walled garden.'" The post notes that the MSI device does not support multitouch in its built-in apps. Still, would an Android-powered iPad-alike tempt you?
Update: 01/29 17:58 GMT by KD : Dave Altavilla suggests Hot Hardware's coverage of Asus's recently announced tablet, also based on the Tegra2 chip.
Update: 01/29 17:58 GMT by KD : Dave Altavilla suggests Hot Hardware's coverage of Asus's recently announced tablet, also based on the Tegra2 chip.
Only if it has an IPS panel. (Score:3, Interesting)
While Apple may prove that it is indeed possible to put a better-than-TN LCD panel in a small (laptop-like) form factor, MSI would do well to follow the lead on quality.
That might provoke Lenovo to bring something back to their laptops that has been missing for a while.
Re: (Score:2)
While Apple may prove that it is indeed possible to put a better-than-TN LCD panel in a small (laptop-like) form factor, MSI would do well to follow the lead on quality.
Of course, if you really want your tablet to also offer better-than-eInk readability (readable in direct sunlight without a glacial refresh rate)- you can just wait until the Notion Ink Adam [slashgear.com] (the first device with a Pixel Qi display) comes out.
Re:Only if it has an IPS panel. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet here you are on /.
Re:Only if it has an IPS panel. (Score:5, Funny)
A strange game. The only winning move is not to post.
Shit.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Excuse me. Slashdot exists since 1997. “Web 2.0” is a term from 2004.
Slashdot is so old, it barely counts as Web 1.0.
Also, it’s not ultra-stupid, since there are a ton of actually educated experts here, and their comments are worth a lot.
An example: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1525428&cid=30911212 [slashdot.org]
That’s what makes /. different than Failbook and Twitter, etc.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
An IPS panel is certainly neat, but as you can't really use the ipad for anything that actually demands that kind of screen
You mean like viewing photos and showing it to people who may not be standing directly in front of it? Because the primary benefits of IPS are better color, and greater viewing angle.
Of course, it's not just photos which will benefit. Video, web, and pretty much anything you will see on the screen (and given that you're presumably going to be looking at the screen while you use it, that's pretty much everything) will benefit.
Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
I've yet to see a compelling reason to pay more for a tablet. My Acer Aspire [amazon.com] cost less than any tablet I've seen yet but does quite a bit more. The only thing it is missing is the touch component but I have yet to find an app that makes me care.
If someone comes out with a tablet that is prices competitively with notebooks and has the same level of features, I'd think about it more seriously.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Funny)
You're worried about price/performance ratios and overall utility rather than being cool and popular by jumping on yet another overpriced 'best thing since sliced bread' bandwagon?
You must be new here...or you must actually have a functioning brain!
Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm excited about this announcement. I was also on the "iPad sucks" bandwagon but not necessarily because it's "cool" to hate on Apple.
To explain.
I'm in the market for a new portable computer. I've been looking at netbooks, etc. (Currently I do _not_ own a smartphone.)
Requirements:
Full web surfing capability. This means, even for all it's evils, Flash capability. Hulu, Netflix, Web TV, etc.
I don't need gaming, or at least "real" gaming. I don't need it to run Crysis, or even Quake. Some fun puzzles, etc, would be nice.
Bluetooth support and video camera abilities for video conferencing would be a plus, but not required.
Basically, when I'm out on vacation, etc, I want to be able to read the news, slashdot, gaming sites, etc. I also want to be able to watch Hulu if I get bored and want to chill to a missed TV show at night. Being able to pay bills/access my bank account is very very handy.
DVD playing functionality is a plus, but not required (especially since it would eat into battery life). The ability to connect an external drive would be very nice though (portable movie player).
_No_ _vendor_ _lock_ _in_. No apple store only and no AT&T only.
WiFi alone is fine by the way. A separate data plan just seems, redundant even if you can use it while outside of WiFi range.
But again, I don't have a portable computer right now and I don't need a full blown laptop to do what I need. But I do want an open platform that does what I need it to.
iPad does _not_ fit _my_ bill.
This new device _might_.
One of the other "iPad clones" may as well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
_No_ _vendor_ _lock_ _in_. No apple store only.
So how do you write apps for the iPad? Do you have to get your builds approved by the Apple Store before you can test them?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't completely accurate. You get a free iPad simulator with the xcode SDK. If you don't want to test on physical hardware you can just test on that. When you want to actually put the software in the store though you do need to pay the $99 fee.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
For about $79.00 and a couple of hours of work you can make your Acer Aspire one touchscreen. I found a kit on ebay and made it fit.
it's not hard. give you touch which is actually really nice considering how crappy trackpad pointing is.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I bought my Acer for travel, as I got tired of lugging my 6 pound Latitude around. And my main laptop is too big to use on an aircraft. The Aspire is a great little machine for the road and would probably even make a decent little home entertainment box, it has hdmi out. But I don't use it at home or work. That's why I don't get the tablet thing. I've yet to see an app that makes me think, "Oh- I have to have that, it is so much better than using a mouse/keyboard/trackpad/etc."
When I'm at home
Re:Not really (Score:5, Insightful)
"I've yet to see an app that makes me think, "Oh- I have to have that, it is so much better than using a mouse/keyboard/trackpad/etc."
Microsoft One-Note. It's the killer tablet app.
Than and a program to let you pen markup PDF files. I have switched to only carrying a tablet into meetings because of those two apps. Plus I added a nice little microphone http://www.sourcingmap.com/mini-small-mic-microphone-for-laptop-line-chat-p-29294.html [sourcingmap.com] to the mic in plug and record the meeting audio as I sit there.
You cant look at a tablet as a pc or a laptop replacement. it's a limited use tool, leverage it's advantages and you really see what it's good at.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Informative)
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/onenote/FX100487701033.aspx [microsoft.com]
http://iheartonenote.com/ [iheartonenote.com]
http://tech4teaching.org/wpblog/?p=602 [tech4teaching.org]
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA010789831033.aspx [microsoft.com]
as much detail as you can get, download the demo and mess with it. You'll learn more that way.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)
A tablet? Too big to use one-handed or with thumbs, and no tilting screen.
I tilt my tablet all the time, why cant you tilt a tablet?
also I dare you to annotate an electrical diagram or blueprints on your phone with a client. OR better yet, take notes at a meeting. Everyone else is writing on their legal pad, I write on my tablet. I dont have to go to my desk afterwards and then get those notes into my system. In fact I can email my notes to others instantly with my 3G connection in the WWAN card or use the WLAN connection.
Stop trying to use a tablet as a PC and a lot opens up.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not always how much something does, it's how easy it is to use. I'm going to be watching this very closely.
Re: (Score:2)
That's when I'd be using my phone and annoyed with anything larger - though for me personally even that would have to be kept very brief as I get sick in an automobile if I don't look out the windows.
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Re:Not really (Score:4, Funny)
Like in a yaris, at night, while someone else is driving down a gravel road.
Then buy a Hummer.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Y'know, I love my netbook, but there are some times that it really just doesn't do it for me. Like in a yaris, at night, while someone else is driving down a gravel road. The position you're in is uncomfortable. The keyboard is awkward. The trackpad is tiny and useless when you're bouncing around.
That seems like a pretty high bar. Tiny uncomfortable vehicle, at night, on a bumpy gravel road? It could be that this is one of those times that a person puts the computing devices away. Under those conditions, it may also be difficult to even read a paperback.
Touch is just nice (Score:4, Informative)
Touch interfaces are nice. And multi touch is nicer.
I had to go back from a touchscreen TomTom satnav to a non-touchscreen Garmin -- it just felt unwieldy.
Once I'd used an iPod Touch for a while, I kept wanting to pinch-zoom the map on the TomTom.
There are certain things that just feel nice with mult-touch, and it also saves space by doing away with a trackpad.
As a frivolous example - a game like Crayon Physics will be tremendously more satisfying on a touch tablet, than when played with a mouse. But things like photo browsers, drawing apps, etc. will also benefit.
They need to solve the problem of so many things needing text entry, though. Decent handwriting recognition is surely the answer.
Re: (Score:2)
Android seems to be moving along nicely solving the text entry problem with voice recognition. I think that is the way to go in the long run.
Re:Touch is just nice (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, cause when i am on a packed train, all i want to do it talk my private message into my phone :)
Voice recognition is over hyped, and it will not work as a sole means for data entry, ever.
Re:Touch is just nice (Score:4, Insightful)
A better touchscreen interface is the difference between an app
being something that you are vaguely aware of but never use vs.
something that you use constantly. Your basic input devices are
by no means trivial.
If Apple maintains this edge, it will be hard for competitors that
are more functional in other areas to get any anywhere.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The downside to using a conductive stylus is that performance-wise they don't even come close to comparing to a "real" active digitizer (like a wacom tablet) so those of us interested in using a tablet as a digital sketchbook (cmd/ctrl+z beat using an eraser any day since your document doesn't get worn out when you erase that damn line for the 20th time because it's just not right). Using a conductive stylus for drawing is like using crayons for drawing, it may work for certain tasks but it's very limited a
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"A flatscreen TV is basically just an iMac with a bunch of features removed."
How does removing features from an iMac add a TV tuner?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because some times people with disposable income are willing to pay extra for a product that does particular things well. I could cook my dinner every night on piece of plate steel over a firepit, but I still thought it made sense to buy some nice pots and pans, and a slow cooker, and a microwave, etc.
Re:Not really (Score:5, Funny)
LoB
Re: (Score:2)
you have a good point, and I hope MSI covers it: AKA, let's see this thing be priced well under the apple price (say $300-$400 range). I could definitely see that happening.
Really, it'd be nice to listen to pandora while doing other things. However, it's still all going to be down to the implementation and/or is anything new/significant for it. If it has flash and firefox mobile, that would actually be significant for a tablet.
Re: (Score:2)
The only thing it is missing is the touch component but I have yet to find an app that makes me care.
Gosh, could it possibly that you've never yet found an app that's designed for touch on a device that doesn't support touch???
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
It's fucking differnt then a tablet with a different purpose.
You don't ahve a need for a flat computer with a big screen? fine, but don't compare it to a device in a different market space.
It's like looking at a boat and bitching it doesn't have wheels like your car.
For the Eskimos out there, note I said wheels, not tires.
Your device costs 461, the iPad costs 500 dollars. It has abilities and features the Acer doesn't have, but like I said, thats a stupid comparison.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Acer:
$420
3 lbs
6 hour battery life
8 in x 11.2 in x 1.18 in
No touchscreen
Plastic case with lower coefficient of friction
iPad:
$499
1.6 lbs
10 hour battery life
7.5 x 9.5 in x 0.5 in
Touchscreen
Aluminum case with higher coefficient of friction
The fact that the iPad is half the weight, half the thickness, and has almost 2x the battery life is not something you can easily ignore in a device who's primary goal is to be portable. To setup a litmus test, try to argue that using a netbook to reply to an email while walking through an airport is less awkward than using a touchscreen tablet in the same situation.
Re:Not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
One thing to keep in mind with these ultra-portable devices is that it's bad to pass judgment on them before you've held one in you hands and used it for a while. Remember the initial response to the iPod (no wireless, less space than Nomad, lame.).
People who were expecting something other than an enlarged iPhone miss the point of the device. The point is that an iPhone's functionality can be significantly improved for many applications simply by making it larger. Apple's been watching people do things
Re: (Score:2)
No - it stays cool. It's a really nice little machine that runs much better than I expected. I bought it intending to do no more than browse, email and watch movies but I've ended up putting OpenOffice.org on it and a few other 'heavier' apps that all run fine and it is the only machine I bring with me when I travel now.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or maybe Apple decided that the interface with tablets wasn't up to snuff for being a general purpose computer but it could work as a device with specific uses in mind. Apple seems to care about the user experience and they probably figured out that by pissing off the small percentage of people like you they could provide a sellable experience to everyone else.
Trying to be all things to all people generally doesn't work out well. Doing a limited selection of things but doing them well tends to be the better
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
[...] they probably figured out that by pissing off the small percentage of people like you they could provide a sellable experience to everyone else.
I agree with you except for this part, because it seems that by playing on the massive hype, Apple have disappointed more than a small percentage of people, meanwhile the "everyone else" that this will appeal to is likely to be a much smaller niche market. You can't afford to disappoint a massive section of your potential/existing market even if it does gain you the undying adoration of a very small majority of said market. At least the previous devices (iPod, Air, iPhone, et al) had more than niche market
multitouch? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Not to sound like a OSS or Google fanboy, I really am serious, what does WinMo provide that Android lacks ?
Re: (Score:2)
Not to sound like a OSS or Google fanboy, I really am serious, what does WinMo provide that Android lacks ?
As WinMo is a fairly old platform, and had decent backwards compatibility all along (not as good as desktop Windows, but better than many others in the same niche), it had a few, by now very mature, pieces of software developed for it. Sometimes, those aren't available for any other platform (or they're only also available for S60, another old-timer). It's possible to get hooked onto one such thing, and stick to the platform just because only it lets you run your favorite app.
On Par? (Score:5, Informative)
Highly doubt the Tegra 2 is on par with the A4, unless the A4 has a dual-core Cortex A9... Info suggests the A4 is only a single core Cortex A9 which would make the Tegra2 at least 2x more powerful. Not to mention Nvidia vs ARM based graphics core.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Highly doubt the Tegra 2 is on par with the A4, unless the A4 has a dual-core Cortex A9... Info suggests the A4 is only a single core Cortex A9 which would make the Tegra2 at least 2x more powerful. Not to mention Nvidia vs ARM based graphics core.
Absolutely. Ars is a bit of an Apple fansite. Check out Anand's discussion for more reasonable analysis (Anand uses a Mac for his main personal PC, too, but he's not affected by the RTD), suggesting as you say that the iPad most likely has less than half the CPU power of Tegra 2. Among other things, Tegra 2 also enables 1080p decoding of h.264 content, while Apple's A4 can only handle 720p and is locked to some annoying containers, meaning you'll have to transcode. GPU performance on the Tegra 2 is most
Re:On Par? (Score:5, Insightful)
"most likely has", "is most likely several times that", "power consumption is also claimed to be several times lower than"
Oh! the facts!
Fact is: no official info has been given about the internals of the A4, only rumors. And yet you come to the conclussion that the Tegra 2 is faster both GPU and CPU wise, and yet
consumes less power. And you criticize sites of being affected by a RTD -did you mean RDF-? maybe you are also in some kind of RDF yourself, of another kind.
When a Tegra 2 tablet is released you will be able to compare the systems. Until them saying one is better than the other is just speculation. Well, in fact it is quite easy to compare
them right now: they have the same performance and the same power consumption: 0, as you can not get either one.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm, perhaps the iPad is said to only display 720p video because that's how big its display is???
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The Tegra2 is pretty hot stuff... and cool... average power draw of 500mW. Seriously...
nVidia has done a very nice job on this. Consider that it can play back H.264 in 1080p without using much CPU.. the decoding engine was designed not only to offload the CPUs, but to do the decode using far, far less power than a CPU decode would. There's also a 1080p encoding engine on-chip, so any Tegra2 device with a video camera should be capable of realtime H.264 HD video capture.
The Cortex A9s are like the A8s, but w
Maybe.... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it has more promise than the iWidgets do.
It's a more open platform which IMHO gives it more potential.
Geeks miss the point again. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not about "do more things," it's about "do very few things better."
That's why Apple wins.
My wife asked about the iPad last night (she owns a netbook right now) and now she's drooling over one. Why? It doesn't have "files." It doesn't have "windows." She won't have to worry about "flash drives." And so on. She was so excited about all the things it didn't have (and that she therefore didn't have to worry about) that she was disappointed when I told her they weren't in the Apple Store in Manhattan yet.
Meanwhile, the geeks are running around blasting Apple products for all the things they "don't have" and recommending complex alternatives.
That's why Apple is making $$$ these days. Because they're removing 60 percent of the features and making the remaining 40 percent configuration free and so polished they make your eyes hurt.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Geeks miss the point again. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have an MSI Wind (a hackintosh) that I love but it is not the same thing as a tablet. Too many people view a tablet as "a computer that is just the screen." Apple has gambled (and I am increasingly thinking they're right on target) that a tablet is not a computer - it's a computing device. If you want a computer, you'll use a laptop or desktop. Those already exist and there are hundreds of choices available. A tablet, however, is an ultra-mobile device capable of very specific computing tasks.
In short, I agree - it's about doing few things better. That's why I think the iPad (hate that name) is going to do pretty well as it differentiates itself from the deluge of "computer in tablet form" offerings from other companies. It's not a computer in tablet form - it's a tablet.
Re:Geeks miss the point again. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I most certainly can. Well, I was able to, until I tripped and broke it and my nose when I didn't notice the end of the side walk. Good thing I didn't get hit by the car that came around the corner at just that moment. ...
Standing and using a tablet, fine. Walking and using one, no thanks.
Um, why do you think it's a computer (Score:3, Insightful)
rather than a better Kindle?
In fact, you're imposing your own arbitrary perspectives.
The Kindle is also your basic good old fashioned Von Neumann architecture computer with inputs and outputs. Even a keyboard and a display, in fact.
So why is the iPad a "poor computer" and not an "insanely great Kindle?"
In fact, why is it either?
I have a Kindle. I love it. I use it to read books.
I have a computer. I love it. I use it to manage data, code, and do research.
I have an iPhone. I love it. I use it to web browse, e
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Geeks miss the point again. (Score:5, Insightful)
While I agree with your analysis as to why the Apple iDevices sell so well, I have to state that "the geeks" aren't interested simply in buying from the company that has the best business model... we just want something that works the way we want. We couldn't care less if our purchase includes us in part of a smug team of iTards or anti-Mac... we just want to know if this tablet has the features we require. Example:
I don't need a camera.
I need multi-tasking.
I prefer to have a modable interface to save CPU/Battery power (less is more)
I want an SD or USB port
I need 3G
I need a text and email program.
I need it to be less than $600.
I don't care what anyone else wants nor how successful the company will be (or if it "wins" in the tablet arena)
etc...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't need a camera.
Skype/VOIP etc is going to be enabled over 3G as well as WIFI. A simple front-mounted camera for video chat support would have been nice.
I need multi-tasking.
Most people are not going to do serious multitasking on a tablet - but they will occasionally switch from one app to check something else out and then switch back. If you can suspend your app *AND* return to your previous state in it easily, that should be good enough. It's the lack of consistent "return to previous state" for iPhone apps that make t
Re:Geeks miss the point again. (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, the geeks are running around blasting Apple products for all the things they "don't have" and recommending complex alternatives.
Wait, so multitasking is a "complex alternative"? Please.
Yes, Apple's tablet is meant to be a computing appliance. But ffs, no fucking user-level multitasking? Christ, people bitched and complained about PalmOS and it's lack of multitasking, and now you're cheering it on like it's some kind of feature. It's fucking baffling.
That and the fact that the iPad is a completely closed off system puts it off my list. No, I don't believe a tablet must be a general purpose computer. But I do believe that I should at least be able to install what I want on it from whatever source I like, and I should be able to run more than one fucking application at the same damn time.
I've had a long-running problem (Score:3, Insightful)
with my wife hating multitasking. She never closes a thing (tab, application, etc.) and invariably runs out of memory. Often, there are dozens of background processes. Her hard drive starts to thrash. Things grind to a halt. I get called.
I've tried to explain about things taking up memory, the problem of lots of background applications, the problem of never closing applications. She doesn't want to know what memory even IS. "Why is the computer so stupid," she wants to know, "that it can't figure out that I
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
d) Apple's gonna continue to make bank selling devices to people just like her.
Agreed. However, this is a geek community. We like things like multi-tasking and open platforms. This article isn't about whether Apple will continue to make a ton of money selling intentionally simplified/restricted devices to the masses. It's about an alternative for us. Geeks don't "miss the point" about certain Apple products. Some of us just don't like them because they don't have what we want (or they cost more than their equivalents) in that kind of device.
So its for people too stupid to use a computer? (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course I would not expect you tell your wife that.
Really, your wife is really really ignorant or just really good at selling you on her buying a new toy.
I know lots of people who are bad with computers, I certainly do my best to make sure they don't touch one
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Does your wife get into a car and complain that it doesn't drive itself? Or that back a few miles ago it didn't even bother steering around that poor pedestrian, just plowed right through?
Congratulations on b). Picking beauty over intelligence probably was a mistake. Which is why /. doesn't care about your wife.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny you should mention that...OSX is actually worse at leaving things running unintentionally :)
However with the iPad when she wants to go check that website while she's writing something...oh...wait, your document closed? Your browser isn't on the page you spent 15 minutes drilling down to?
No offense to you or your wife, but if she wants to use a computer she needs to learn how. If she refuses, she perpetuates her frustration when things don't work as she things they should. If she really never *ever*
But Apple has solved that problem. (Score:5, Insightful)
Every iPhone app I have (yes, that's the iPhone famous for "not multitasking") stores complete state information when it exits.
Safari comes back with all the same tabs and windows open. It doesn't have to reload them. It is scrolled to exactly the same place I was at. Partially filled out forms are still partially filled out.
The document I was working on in DocsToGo is exactly the way it looked (with the cursor in exactly the same place).
It's COMPLETELY state-stable and FAST, there's no "saving state" when you switch applications, because they store their state continuously as it evolves.
I am a power Linux user. I HAVE a home-built hardware RAID sitting here on my desktop, along with a triple-head display.
I run from the updates-testing repos on Fedora. I have patched my own radeon_drv.so Xorg module to fix the infamous compositing corruption bug (for those who care, when doing copy-from-screen, first do a test to see if the bitmap being copied is smaller than 32 pixels; if it is, don't copy-from, because the bitmap hasn't made it into the buffer yet to be copied back from).
I'm the sort you'd think would be bugged as hell with "no multitasking."
Only I'm totally not. As far as I'm concerned, for an interface on a tiny screen (where you're unlikely to have multiple windows onscreen at once), perfect stateful information is damn close to multitasking.
The only thing that can't be approximated is background processes (i.e. start it and let it compute while I work on something else), but it's not like I'm going to do a 20-day render on my iPhone, is it? Nor on my iPad.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Only I'm totally not. As far as I'm concerned, for an interface on a tiny screen (where you're unlikely to have multiple windows onscreen at once), perfect stateful information is damn close to multitasking.
1990 called and wants it's Palm Pilot back.
If people were happy about this mode of operation, they wouldn't have bitched about PalmOS for the last two decades.
Re:But Apple has solved that problem. (Score:4, Informative)
I like to listen to music while I read or surf the web. Can it do that? No?
Wrong.
I listen to music while checking email, browsing the web, playing card games, and whatnot on a regular basis.
Please, if you're going to post an opinion on a technological device - especially posting to Slashdot where you're surrounded by tech geeks - at least spend 15 minutes playing with a demo version of at your local computer store so you actually know what you're talking about.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Say what you want, but a) she's my wife, b) she's rather beautiful, c) it's absolutely impossible to even try to say "okay, let me explain to you why..." and d) Apple's gonna continue to make bank selling devices to people just like her.
And then when she says "Why can't my stupid email program stay open while I'm browsing the web on this thing", your answer will be "well, you said you hated multitasking... now lie in the bed you made".
The simple fact is, everyone multitasks *every day* with their computer.
Re:I've had a long-running problem (Score:4, Informative)
And then when she says "Why can't my stupid email program stay open while I'm browsing the web on this thing", your answer will be "well, you said you hated multitasking... now lie in the bed you made".
I can tell you've never used an iPhone. If I'm composing a message in the Mail app, and move to something else, when I return to Mail, the application state is preserved perfectly. The partially composed message is still there with all of its text, the cursor is in the same place, and the keyboard is still up. The same is true of every Apple app and every good third party app I've ever used. And start-up time on these apps is close enough to instant that I don't notice them starting up. From a usability standpoint, this approach is identical to multitasking. From a technical standpoint, I would argue that it's *superior* to multitasking, because the Mail app (and everything else you're using) isn't perpetually running in the background, using memory and precious mobile battery life to do nothing but preserve its state.
The only really compelling reason I've ever seen anyone give for exposing the multitasking capabilities of the OS to third party applications is that it would make it possible to listen to music from a source other than the iPod app (which can already run in the background) while doing something else. That would be cool. But you have to recognize that there's a design trade off here that goes beyond "Apple is evil". If background process abilities were exposed to third party apps, than for every one that used it to accomplish something desirable that couldn't be accomplished any other way, there would be a thousand written by lazy developers that would sit in the background for no reason, killing memory and battery life. And many people who don't know any better (people who are, let's face it, the majority of the market for any mobile device that's had a non-trivial amount of sales) would blame Apple for the iPhone's cruddy performance.
I honestly prefer Apple's approach as an end-user. Luckily android and probably Palm aren't going anywhere, so luckily there is a reasonably healthy market for different approaches to be evaluated. Get a Nexus (or whatever) and let me know if battery life/memory consumption with a large number of third party apps isn't as bad as I suspect.
Missing the point again. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, it's "her own fucking problem" and it looks like iPad is how she's going to solve it, judging by her excitement at watching the YouTube videos and my answers to her questions about it last night. I'm sure you don't care.
Maybe you think she's an idiot. Maybe I'm really bad at explaining. Both of those things have little to do with my suggestion that geeks will likely continue to wonder until the end of time why not everyone wants a bare/caseless single board computer that fits inside a coffee cup, runs
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're the one missing the point here.
Sure, I *can* understand why she would like to get an iPad. I don't wonder at all. The point is that, especially when it is taken to such extreme, it is, well, utterly ridiculous.
Simplifying the user interface is one thing -- it's what people should aim at, especially for mobile devices. However:
1. It's orthogonal to whether the device is friendly to the advanced user (e.g. whether it is "hackable", what a silly word). But you're making it sound like this is somehow inc
It's an easy mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
"For a Mac user it is obvious and when they switch to Windows they wonder why when they try to close one window every other window with that app closes too."
The "shutdown" button isn't used to close the current window.
But when is fewer too few? (Score:5, Interesting)
You make a valid point - Slashdot is not the market segment Apple is aiming at with the iPad. Rather, it's the woman in my class whom I overhead saying "I was thinking about getting a Kindle, but now I might get the iPad - it looks cooler and can do more stuff" or my buddy whom I saw last night saying "The iPad looks so cool, and it's CHEAP! [for an Apple product]"
Problem is, I pointed out to my friend that since the iPad lacks flash, he won't be able to watch Hulu on it. He was very disappointed to hear this. Unless, of course, Hulu releases an iPhone/iPad app. There was a rumor about that last year, but nothing solid so far. ATT complains that the iPhone is already killing their network, think they will really want to let Hulu on the iPhone? How will Apple feel about Hulu as a potential competitor to iTunes? Yeah, there are other streaming apps, but still.
Re: (Score:2)
I get the feeling that people are put off by the fact that the iPad is not what they expected. It's kind of funny that prior to Apple's announcement there was commentary about how no one has been able to make tablet computers successful, and now after the announcement, when it's clear that Apple made the 'big iPod' instead, there's all kinds of complaints that they didn't build a tablet computer.
So I'm agreeing with you and taking it further. I don't think (many, or at least the vocal ones) geeks have even
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I see a lot of people going on with the "can't replace my laptop because" sort of theme, and I'm surprised that it's so unclear to people what this is for. The iPad is a coffee table computer, mostly something that will sit in a living room/conference room for when someone wants to check their email or the news or whatever for a couple minutes.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
... now she's drooling over one. Why? It doesn't have "files." It doesn't have "windows." She won't have to worry about "flash drives." And so on. She was so excited about all the things it didn't have (and that she therefore didn't have to worry about) that she was disappointed when I told her they weren't in the Apple Store in Manhattan yet.
You just wait till she actually uses one for an extended period of time. I strongly suspect that she'll suddenly find out that all those "complicated things" such as files and multitasking were actually very handy to have.
Re: (Score:2)
...but if it runs Android, it will soon run Mer (Maemo), some Ubuntu variant, Windows CE and so on. That's the real deal with MSI's alternative to iPad, at least for me.
Slashdot: why is the "post anonymously" text white on a white background?
Re:Geeks miss the point again. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure wish the trolls would go back under their bridge. The fact that so many Apple trolls are working so hard pretty means they admit Android is superior; else why work so hard to FUD it? Exactly.
For example, app developers on Android can publish without approval, but so can malware developers.
This is true for Apple too. The difference is its easier and costs less to develop for Android. Android is open. Apple is closed. Apple's vetting service is not necessarily in place to prevent trojans. Its in place to protect their property; which is the iPhone its running on. Its hardly unreasonable to believe a trojan can make it past Apple. The only difference is, you'd have to be more ballsy to try.
Basically your position boils down to freedom is bad. People can come up to you and kill you right now so your argument is that no one should have that freedom. Sure its illegal, but they have the freedom to do so. They can freely obtain weapons. They can freely travel to your location. No free society is completely safe. To be clear, this is not a threat - just making a point. The point being, a free society has an inherent risk and certain responsibilities are therefore assumed.
Not to mention, Android limits the amount of disk space for installable apps to something less than 256MB. You can forget about apps that require a large local database, or other large apps like games.
Not true. Even pragmatically its not true. The limits can be changed. But, your comment is completely ignoring the fact that applications are encouraged to use external storage for content. Only absolute dolts would consider 16GB-32GB (and growing) to be a serious limit for a hand held device. Realistically, you're not likely to find an Android application which uses more than a couple dozen MB of internal storage, whereby the rest is deferred to external storage. Just because Android is different and purposely encourages a superior solution doesn't make it bad.
Contrary to your assertions, different is not bad. Freedom is not bad. With freedom comes personal responsibility. It seems in addition to hating freedom, you personally refuse to accept any type of responsibility. In a free society you have that right - but it still makes you useless to society.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Thank goodness there hasn't been any malware on iPhone, eh? Oh, wait, never mind [computerworld.com].
Apple's control over iPhone apps isn't to protect the user or the network; it's to protect Apple's [gizmodo.com]
I can see you're great with non-tech (Score:3, Funny)
people.
"I can either outfit you with Gentoo on an 64-way 128GB NUMA server with a 16TB ZFS RAID that you access via ssh over gigabit ethernet... or with your basic hunk of steel... if the 64-way Linux box is too complicated for you. No, you don't want that iPad. All it does it access the web, your email, Facebook, YouTube, and iTunes with the touch of a finger, but only over a wireless network so unspecial you'll find it anywhere in the world, and it doesn't do anything beyond that, really. Oh, and it won't
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a YouTube app. When you click on someone's YouTube link in Safari or something, surprise surprise, it opens the YouTube app and plays the video.
People who don't have one have a lot of notions about the limitations of an iPhone but a lot of it (missing flash, no multitasking, etc.) is a kind of semantic game: it does things in a new way, which means that the old terms don't quite apply. But then people assume that it's not capable, not just that it's not the same.
Re:I can see you're great with non-tech (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Safari stays active in the background.
2) Use the Facebook app.
It amazes me that Windows and Linux have dumbed down peoples' expectations of what user interaction is to such a degree that most everyone on Slashdot celebrates shitty UI instead of condemning it.
Skip the camera (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The only way around that is to hold the device up in front of your face (NOT!), or having a cool War of the Worlds micro gooseneck. But, then again, if I had one of those, I could thing of far more interesting uses.
KDE4 is designed for multitouch... (Score:3, Interesting)
There is not enough memory (Score:3, Interesting)
Check out 1:12.
He is scrolling through the pics, he exits out, then tries to open the photos again. Instead of seeing the picture, he sees an error box stating
"There is not enough memory to load the photo".
Seems a bit... sad.
Asking the wrong question (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, actually, the post asks the right question in the wrong place.
The question is not what'd be popular on Slashdot - we're not representative of the wider population by almost any stretch of the imagination. Of course Slashdotters want multitasking, want to be able to install ssh, want the option to run their own web server on the thing. Slashdotters will want the darn tablet to support FLAC and Ogg Vorbis/Theora.
But the things that'd make this really popular with Slashdotters are not the same things that'll make a tablet a commercial success. It's pretty obvious the majority of people don't care about multitasking (as long as they can listen to their tunes while they do other things - which is true of the iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad, and most any other device), nor about Apple's "walled garden". What they do care about is the availability of the apps they want and that the features the tablet offers are easy to use and work well.
Re: (Score:2)
The majority of people don't want multi-tasking? Do they have the option to use it and choose not to? Because I was under the impression that the "majority of people" don't even have such an option on their smart phones.
Hmm. (Score:2)
A tablet might be nifty. I will get one when they have either an sd card slot or a little compartment to put an USB stick in. I want to be able to work with the music/video/text/whatever files that are on the removable media, no 'importing' crap.
And if i have wifi and a browser, i need enough flash support to watch Weebl and Bob.
And for blimey's sake, make the screen scratch resistant.
No multitouch? (Score:2)
Or, in this case, is there really no multitouch?
It still won't let me do my job (Score:2)
Productivity (Score:2)
Are there good Word Processors/Spreadsheets/Presentation apps on android yet? Seriously asking. I'm a big Pages fan and am really happy to see they were able to put together an iPad version; and the single-record entry views in Numbers are one of those "duh" ideas that would probably be really useful.
Please don't post to tell me about google docs -- at the very least a "real" word processor should allow more than web core fonts, and should let you set line spacing, tab stops per paragraph, and use named s
Re:Productivity (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want a real word processor or spreadsheet, then just bite the bullet and get N900 - it can actually run OpenOffice [maemo.org] (UI not optimized for small screen, though... but still usable). So far as I know, this is unmatched by any competitor today, and none of them have plans to get anywhere even close in near future.
On par? (Score:2)
"It has a camera. It's running on an Nvidia Tegra2 chip which Ars Technica suggests puts it on par with the iPad's A4 as far as computing horsepower"
What a stupid measurement. A4 is superior for this environment. 300 mw 1GHz. 45nm. I will be might surprise if the Tegra2 can be put into a similiar sized device and still get 10 hours.
Both need better market focus (Score:2)
I see the big problem with both the MSI tablet and the iPad is that both are trying to be everything to everyone. Instead of showing how great the games or "Brushes" or the eBook reader are on the iPad for 30%+ of the launch event, I would have liked to have seen how Apple plans to expand into markets that have been relatively closed to them in the past.
Medicine: the iPad is uni
iPad vs $300 Netbook (Score:5, Interesting)
1.0 Ghz processor versus 1.66 Ghz processor
128 MB of RAM (assumed like iPhone, not explicitly stated in specs) versus 1024 MB of RAM
16 GB of storage versus 160 GB of storage
No webcam versus a webcam
No keyboard versus a keyboard
No Flash veruss Flash
No multi-tasking versus multi-tasking
No Windows or Linux apps versus install whatever you want
$500 versus $300.
The iPad does have a touchscreen. Does that offset the $200 and all other disadvantages?
Target Market (Score:3, Insightful)
One thing that geeks here on slashdot don't seem to understand is the concept of "target market". Often times they assume that just because a product doesn't have some geek feature that they would like, they think the product cannot possibly succeed in the larger population in general. Geeks here on slashdot want certain features. Some of them want more control and configurability. These are not bad things; but geeks here have to understand that they are not everyone. General consumers want different things.
Where Apple has succeeded in the past, contrary to the dire predictions of geeks, is that Apple does not design their products for geeks. They design their products for a target audience. Most of their products are designed for average consumers.
MP3 players existed before Apple. When Apple entered the market, there were two distinct categories: large HD players with GB capacities that were the size of portable CD players and smaller pocket-sized flash RAM players that could hold at most 128MB. While the iPod didn't have all the technical features that geeks here wanted (some of which were not included in other players for years), Apple focused on other aspects which appealed to average consumers. First it was only slightly larger than the flash RAM players but could nearly as much as the larger players. Second, to get music onto a player back then was a pain which required the patience and know-how of a geek. You had to find a ripper and then an encoder which was separate of the program that managed loading the music onto the player. Apple worked on making the music transfer as simple as possible. iTunes did all three.
Years ago, Apple released the MacBook Air. This product was different from other Apple products as it was designed for a different target audience than the average consumer. The MacBook is designed for average consumers; the Air is designed for road warriors who need a lighter computer and some computing needs. But for most slashdot geeks, since it wasn't powerful to decode the human genome instanteously and at the same time, weighed more than a feather, they deemed it a failure.
In 2007, Apple released the iPhone. It was a smartphone designed for average consumers. Unlike the Blackberry, the iPhone was not intended for business or corporate users. Again, the exlusion of a long list of technical features slashdot geeks wanted meant it was doomed to fail.
Some of the same criticisms are being repeated again with the iPad:
Here's where I see this product's market: Those who want more capabilities than a Kindle but not as much as a laptop. Some examples that come of the top of my head: School lessons, digital magazines, personal media players. Basically, the iPad is an appliance not a computer.
Re:"Walled garden"? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't know the meaning of a common semi-technical phrase [wikipedia.org], it's probably better to just look it up, than to loudly proclaim what you don't know.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
How would you like it if this hypothetical tablet of yours came standard with a magnet that would let you stick it to your fridge while you cook?
The Always Innovating Touchbook does just that. The problem? They are hand assembled in batches after enough orders are in to cover the cost of materials. So you would be looking at a 3+ month wait to receive one at the moment.