How to Build Your Own Linux Distribution 192
Shelly writes "Go to the source to learn Linux basics and build the right Linux for you. Linux From Scratch (LFS) and its descendants represent a new way to teach users how the Linux operating systems work. LFS is based on the assumption that compiling a complete operating system piece by piece not only teaches how the operating system works but also allows an independent operator to build systems for speed, footprint, or security."
Sanrionix (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sanrionix (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.exonome.com/fj/phkl/ [exonome.com]
Re:Sanrionix (Score:2)
So? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So? (Score:1)
LFS even has been covered [slashdot.org] by slashdot [slashdot.org] before [slashdot.org].
Re:So? (Score:1)
I suppose that could still be new for slashdot...
Re:So? (Score:2)
They ought to publish a price list somewhere for their "slashvertisements."
Jeremy
Slow News Day (Score:2)
:D:D (Score:2, Funny)
Re::D:D (Score:1, Offtopic)
Huh?! (Score:5, Interesting)
But seriously, LFS is new? I based my distribution on LFS, and it taught me a lot about how linux works, but this was several years ago. How is LFS new?
Re:Huh?! (Score:1)
Re:Huh?! (Score:1)
Old wine in new bottle.
from what i see, this looks like a post by an MBA!
Re:Huh?! (Score:2)
Why fanboys? This is precisely what meta-distributions like Gentoo are for, chuck.
Ultra-tweakers are a (vocal) minority of Gentoo users - the rest of us value Gentoo for its flexibility.
Re:Huh?! (Score:2)
Ultra-tweakers are a (vocal) minority of Gentoo users - the rest of us value Gentoo for its flexibility.
I couldn't have said it better. I love how people think your a fanboy if you start to speak your mind about a distribution.
Re:Huh?! (Score:5, Insightful)
I strongly disagree (Score:2)
Then why does every Gentoo user I've ever seen say exactly that? I think your way off. Gentoo users do mention how they like the Gentoo manages itself and how they are "in control", but 90% of the time I hear about how their OS is "optimized" unlike Red Hat etc and how they are learning what's going on "under the hood".
Re:I strongly disagree (Score:2)
I personally use it because I have full control over what packages have what, etc. I have a source repository, a binary repository, a "altered" repository that I've edited the sourcecode on, etc. It all intermingles into a single portage repository where my systems pull updates from nightly.
These youngsters... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:These youngsters... (Score:2)
Did you use the InfoMagic CD set, or d/l each individual floppy one at a time? ahha.. I remember those days, and I opted for the CD set.
ppp was a real bitch back then... the thing that really tore me apart was after knowing how to do a chat script inside and out, along came prog
LFS.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:LFS.. (Score:2)
nice overview (Score:5, Informative)
Build Your Own Linux! (Score:4, Interesting)
Not entirely, but some broken packages (or installing one that breaks another) is probably the bane of most administrators existence...
This is why a source hybrid (ala. gentoo) system works so well. You compile from source (reaping all the benefits) but something else manages dependancies, conflicts,
(For the record, I used Linux From Scratch 5.0, I built my base system, then stopped before I had an x server or anything [also known as, Beyond LFS]. )
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:1)
LFS is the best way to get a fully operational linux box that will be tight, lean, and mean. okay, you have to know what you're doing.
but
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't understand this "Cult of the Difficult" that seems to be very pervasive in the Open Source community. Software has always been about making the difficult easier. We design and write software to make tasks faster or more easily performed or, in some cases like the spreadsheet, possible.
So I don't see what the fascination is with trifling with the minutia of a system just for kicks. I guess if it's for your own kicks, that's fine, but comments like yours above are very common in the computer technology industry. "If you don't understand the root of this, you will never understand this."
Understanding every little bit of something is not a requirement for using it. For most things, it shouldn't be. And for the best-written software, it isn't. Why, then, do people think that getting your hands dirty in Linux source code is such a good thing for everyone? It seems like a colossal waste of time for most people who would rather get their work done.
I had the same reaction when some Mac fanatic tried to tell me how much more user-friendly MacOS was in one breath and then turn around and tell someone that they need to manually increase the amount of RAM allotted to some random program in the next breath. That isn't user-friendliness. That's OS-retardation.
A good piece of software should anticipate what you want to do and make it easy to do it. It should handle things that you don't want to handle, and it should optimize things that you do often. It should, to steal a phrase from Apple, Just Work.
I don't want to fiddle with Linux's innards any more than I want to fiddle with my own. I am happy with GIGO and am willing to accept it as a black box, but if something goes wrong, I'd rather call a doctor who spent 8 years of their life studying the black box than trying to do that studying on my own.
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:3, Insightful)
anything which increases the level of a persons understanding of a scenario, makes them more competent. competence in this industry is an honored and valuable condition.
Understanding every little bit of something is not a requirement for using it
true, the only 'requirement' is that it be working and usable in the first place. but if you're a linux person, and you like these things, you should
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, why stop there? Generations of having "farmers" has made it so people can't grow their own food any more. Everybody should learn how to grow their own food, and raise their own meat. And hell, when was the last time you met somebody who could make their own clothes? I mean, everybody I know just buys their clothes. If they need a special shirt,
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
We, the cultists, want to know how, from step 1 to step n. Black boxes are uncut jewels waiting our favourite hammer.
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
I don't understand this "Cult of the Difficult"
Then you are just now a nerd. Nerds value knowledge, mostly any kind of knowledge. A nerds enjoys understanding stuff, respects those who value knowledge, and despises people who don't.
I am a nerd. You seem to be too selective about aquiring knowledge. You are not a nerd. I despiiiise you.
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:3, Insightful)
LFS is not for a user like yourself that does not care about the minutia, its for users who want to have a good grasp of the underlying system. You'll be amazed on how much you'll learn about Linux by piecing it together yourself. The knowledge that you gain is incredibly helpful later on as a professional when your fixing some problem with very deep causes. I strongly reccomend that any professiaonal using Linux on a regular basis install LFS. You don't need to use it f
Re:Build Your Own Linux! (Score:2)
Hey editors! (Score:1)
Not really that new (Score:5, Informative)
It's not even a really good way to learn about how "Linux the OS" works. It's just another way of spending an inordinate amount of time tinkering with your computer (not that there's anything wrong with that).
If you want the benefits of LFS without the pain, just stick with Gentoo or Sorcerer Linux and let someone else worry about the sources. You still get the custom compilation benefits but don't have to waste time trying to track down stupid dependency problems (at least not as much as you would with LFS, but more than with a mainstream distro).
Re:Not really that new (Score:4, Interesting)
At the time I was also a modest C programmmer (2nd year at uni), and took the time to look at the internals of many of the daemons and other major components. It taught me a damn lot.
Eleven years on... I've been a professsional unix sysadmin/engineer for around 8 years, with better understanding of unix - ANY unix, the skills are very transferable - than most others in my organisation with twice my experience, because I have an "internal" view of unix in addition to the "external" view your average admin has.
So the exercise most definitely IS worth the effort.
LFS is NOT about "custom compilation benefits", and is ALL about tracking down those "stupid dependency problems" in order to learn how the whole show hangs together.
Re:Not really that new (Score:3, Insightful)
Slightly OT, but I can remember when MS WinNT was available for the Alpha, Intel, MIPS and PPC platform.
The real strength of linux (alright, GNU/linux) is that since source code is available for virtually everything, your favorite distribution can be built on your favorite platform. The real sticki
Re:Not really that new (Score:2)
If you had used LFS, you would have known that it is a book, and a book tailored to teach you specifically how "Linux the OS" works. And it works pretty well, so you are completely off-base. You thought it was a way to spend time tinkering your computer, and did not try anything, and now come saying nonsense out of hot air : this can't be serious.
It shows you do not understand
Re:Not really that new (Score:2)
(yeah, see? that's my cave over there --> 3rd one on the left. what? no. no, I don't get out much.)
Go to the source (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Go to the source (Score:2)
Some info (Score:2, Informative)
And all four newbies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And all four newbies (Score:1)
And actually, it's very straightforward, stable, and runs *very* fast. I don't see what the big deal is really.
Re:And all four newbies (Score:2)
I use Ubuntu at home and Novell Linux Desktop at work - great stuff, point and click updates on both even though one is rpm and one is deb. Having lost a day once trying to get gentoo installed, I have absolutely come to appreciate the convenience of a good distro.
Re:And all four newbies (Score:2)
To me, this is one of the spiffiest things about Free OSs. I'm in a similar position as you -- I'm a user, I want my computer to let me do the work I want or need to do. For me right now, that means Mandrake. I'd like to do a Gentoo install sometime to help me figure some more stuff out, but that would purely be as a hobby, for shits and giggles.
GNU/Linux allows me have a funct
Re:And all four newbies (Score:2)
Microsofts Response (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Microsofts Response (Score:2)
The usual slashdot dupes may be annoying... (Score:2)
... but seeing an article about LFS in the index section feels like travelling back in time.
If only there were something like an article about Apple switching to Intel [com.com] below, the effect would be complete...
This is great... (Score:1)
...if you have all the time in the world. The single biggest advantage to Linux, for me at least, is that it allows me to get my job done faster and more cheaply (although I sometimes wonder if thats the case when something goes wrong).
I think the single biggest disadvantage to Linux is the amount of knowledge needed to do most things. I have been using one version of Linux or another for about 4 years and only now do I really feel like I know how to use it. If you start telling people they have to build
Re:This is great... (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't worry, I don't think the guys who write the LFS book will ever get the idea into their heads that promoting this to general users would be a good idea.
Nice to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
That said though, I don't think it's very practicle for a system that you actually want to use for day to day use. Building a Linux system from scratch takes a lot of time, and then you have to keep track of all of the security patches for all of the packages you used, and if you want to upgrade one of the core libraries for some reason you end up having to rebuild most of the system.
Building a distro for scratch is a fun way to learn, and I encourage hobbiests who are interested in learning how a linux system works to do so, but unless you have a critical mass of people contributing patches, helping with stuff, etc, then you end up spending all your time keeping the distro up to date, and no time actually using the system.
Which, if your just in it for the hobbiest aspect isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I still think it's generally impracticle if you want to have an actually usuable distribution.
Re:Nice to learn (Score:2)
The difference is that Gentoo has a package manager and the way everything gets installed is pretty specific, but if you've ever been through an install you'll realize that you are quite literally starting from scratch. A stage1 Gentoo install is LFS for dummies.
This has a lot to do with the Gentoo is for ricers thing. LFS is like going out and finding each part you'll need for your car and building the whole thing from scratch. Ge
Re:Nice to learn (Score:2)
Re:Nice to learn (Score:2)
I have a LFS based distro since 2001. My family and I uses it every day since january 2001, when I switched every one to my Linux OS. It is entirely automated (with nALFS, in which I contributed in the beginning) and with package management (with paco, in which I contributed too). The most time consuming parts where at start, when I had to create all my custom XML files for apps I wanted on my OS (1200+ files).
Re:Nice to learn (Score:2)
Not that uselss - why not try it yourself? (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmm, in reply to all those who claim that you don't learn anything, and that you're just following instructions, and who recommend Gentoo, how about putting your money where your mouth is and building it yourself? (and pasting the proof here, which will usually take the form of "oh fsck this......how do i fix this?")
Take it from me, when you've stayed up to 2am trying to figure out why this fsck-ing package won't install, and why you keep getting "Error 1:...blah blah", then when you finally figur
Re:Not that uselss - why not try it yourself? (Score:3, Interesting)
Take it from me, when you've stayed up to 2am trying to figure out why this fsck-ing package won't install, and why you keep getting "Error 1:...blah blah", then when you finally figure out why
Re:Not that uselss - why not try it yourself? (Score:2)
Of course not. But then, LFS explains to you why it was done.
LFS is a book made for that. Show me another distro that explains the importance of the "build toolchain", and how to assure its integrity. I don't know one, except LFS, and other books based on it (like DIY Linux).
Show me other distros that explain how to compile things like glibc, how the environment must be before, and why.
Actually, LFS is pretty useful to u
Next on Slashdot: How to Invent the Wheel! (Score:5, Funny)
(A disturbance in the force, as though an entire audience with Asperger's was thinking: "was that supposed to be funny?")
This is humor. Laugh damnit, laugh!
Re:Next on Slashdot: How to Invent the Wheel! (Score:3, Informative)
Not exactly teaching how it works (Score:5, Interesting)
LFS is cool and has a place for those willing and able to make decisions on how base libraries and apps are compiled. Speed? Sometimes, but only of import in limited applications. None of which newbies should be involved with.
I teach Linux use and administration, as well as security. LFS doesn't exactly provide you the opportunity to learn how to secure your system any more than SuSE, Redhat, or Gentoo for example, or even Slackware.
Further, there are many choices you have to make right from the get go. This merely teaches you a way (assuming you are doing more than following the directions), not the way. There are few "the way it works" out there. And that is how it works on nearly all distributions. LFS provides no advantage there.
Indeed, security-wise unless you already know what you are doing, LFS provides you a prime opportunity to leave your system open. Most modern distributions come fairly well locked down out of the box. LFS, by definition doesn't. While you are downloading the packages you are potentially exposed. So you have to follow the step by step directions. Which puts us back to merely following directions.
When I want/need to teach people the nitty gritty, I turn to gentoo, not LFS. I gave LFS a long trial and it failed in comparison to gentoo for this purpose. I've been "doing Linux" for about ten years, so the idea behind LFS isn't new to me. Gentoo provides a solid base on which to build a custom "distribution" (it isn't a distribution if it is for your own purposes/company/use - you have to distribute it to be a distribution).
LFS has it's place, but not as a teaching you how Linux works and how to make it fast and secure standpoint. It is mainly aimed at/useful for the hardcore or people who have very specific unmet software set needs.
Re:Not exactly teaching how it works (Score:2)
I disagree completely. If you actually READ it, instead of just copy + pasting commands, you learn quite a bit about how a GNU/Linux system and its various components work. Or at least I did, after maybe five runs through LFS.
Re:Not exactly teaching how it works (Score:2)
bug fixes, outdated packages, etc. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:bug fixes, outdated packages, etc. (Score:2)
FYI I use a LFS based OS since 2001, and I'm sure it is more up to date than any of your distros.
FYI, there is a site called FreshMeat, where people keeps track of software changes for you. Then, you can subscribe for it to send you notices when a package is updated. That is what I use.
I never overlooked any packages thanks to that site. I even let some Apache versions slip, because I knew that the new version did not gave me anything.
And thanks to my LFS system, I KNO
Re:bug fixes, outdated packages, etc. (Score:2)
To quote a good friend of mine, "There's just no substitute for knowing what you're doing." A good sysadmin reduces the security footprint of the system. It's true that it's a full time job to track every package available for Linux. My suggestion is to not install every available package.
Security? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's probably one of the most common security problems - making a system secure is very hard. Even security experts fail at this. Doing it yourself is only going to make you repeat the errors which have been corrected in other distros.
The only security you could get is security through obscurity, which is not security.
Old news.. (Score:1)
Anyway, does anyone know of a book like LFS except aimed at making you're own bootscripts?
And for those who already know (Score:1)
Too many packages (Score:1)
The "home excercise equipment" of Linux distros (Score:4, Insightful)
I built an LFS system a while back. It was great fun, and if nothing else, it taught me how to compile from source - something I'd always been a bit afraid of doing before. After all, if I messed up, how did I delete the files? The package manager wouldn't do it for me. . .
Some people are saying it teaches you a lot, and others are saying it's no better than any other distro.
I think installing LFS is like buying home gym equipment. Buying an excercise bike isn't going to make you fit, installing LFS isn't going to teach you a great deal.
All either does is provide you with an opportunity to get what you want. You CAN use excercise equipment to get fit; You CAN use LFS to learn a lot about Linux.
If you just follow the LFS instructions and leave it at that, you'll probably be wasting your time. If you take the time to read around what you're doing, so you understand exactly WHY you're doing what you're doing, you'll learn a great deal.
And if you go on to Beyond LFS, you'll come to truly appreciate package managers. When you've done the "To install A, I need B, which requires C, which relies on D. . . " thing a few times, you'll REALLY understand why package management is such a big topic. The amount of running around I had to do to get FVWM running. . .
I liked my LFS install, but once I had overcome the challenge of getting it working, it just became a chore to KEEP it working. So I switched to Gentoo, which is no effort at all to keep up-to-date.
But I'm glad I did LFS first.
Re:The "home excercise equipment" of Linux distros (Score:2)
Re:The "home excercise equipment" of Linux distros (Score:2)
Strangely enough, you had problem keeping your system working. My internet frontend is a P75 200@133 MHz. I think you will understand why I do not upgrade it often (it takes 2+ days to compile the linux kernel, with everything else running of course). Actually, except for the kernel (when it becomes really dangerous not to upgrade) and iptables, I do not u
Best way to learn Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
And it's easy, all you need to do is try to get that weird piece of equipment working, or that x version of software y which isn't in your distributions repository. And Linux will break. And you'll learn it! It's great!
Re:Best way to learn Linux (Score:2)
im using debian now (used to use gentoo after slack) and i miss my rc.local
Re:Best way to learn Linux (Score:2)
Re:Best way to learn Linux (Score:2)
For the user, it may well be faster and more convenient to install everything again, so the merit of being able to fix things is not necessarily obvious. (Though you can reinstall Linux as well.) However, I don't want people to learn that the you can always "fix" things by replacing them with ne
How is this news? (Score:2)
Re:How is this news? (Score:2)
I'm not following you...
Apologies if I'm missing something (I'm not currently a Linux hacker, although LFS does look appealing in a sort of do-or-die baptism-of-fire kind of way...) but that didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me...
An Analogy (Score:5, Informative)
Building your own Linux distribution is like building your own airplane.
People build their own airplanes not because they want Airplane X or Feature Y, they do it because they want to build an airplane. They want to take control of the construction process and be intimately familiar with the final product. They want to learn how the various airplane systems function. They will not necessarily learn the detailed workings of an internal combustion engine, but they will learn how it interacts with other systems.
The same is true with LFS. If you want a generic Linux distribution, then install Fedora, Gentoo, Debian, or whatever suits you. However, if you want to build your own Linux distribution, if want to take control and be intimately familiar with the final product, then LFS is the way to go. You will learn how the various components function. You will not necessarily learn the detailed workings of the Linux kernel, but you will learn how it interacts with other system components.
LFS taught me that Linux == patch-o-rama (Score:2)
About the author... (Score:2)
I wonder if that decision was made before or after 9/11...
This isn't logic (Score:3, Informative)
When we look to Windows admins, do they need to install it from scratch to understand the internals and how to repair things? No!
And that's exactly the same here. We don't need to know how to compile things to know how they interact and how to repair what's broken. Yes, you can learn to assemble an OS but WHO CARES? All the enterprises or people you'll met will ALL used canned distributions of Linux. They all have their own problems installing but also have their way to solve it.
If you want to learn the system internal do it with a distro you like. Install packages one by one and see how they work, what they do, etc. but don't give you the trouble to compile all from scratch.
If you are still searching problems to solve to learn something after that, check out your distro's bug tracker. I'm sure they'll appreciate you helping them solve the thousand problem there are!
The answer is at Distrowatch.com (Score:3, Informative)
Klaus Knopper's Knoppix has encouraged many people build their own distro. Most of these have instructions for remastering the disk and creating a personal Linux disro on a bootable CD.
I'm fond of:
GeeXbox - multimedia player, plays my DVDs on a old machine.
SLAX - based on Slackware, detailed instructions for remastering. Has quite a community around it.
Austrumi - Loads into memory and then ejects the CD. Browser, word processor, Email, multimedia, games, more. It's only a 48 M download, I love it.
Puppy - Good reviews but doesn't work on my hardware.
DamnSmallLinux - Fits on a miniCD. A community is growing around this one also.
Austrumi (Score:2)
How I did it. (Score:2, Funny)
Worked great. Installed everything just fine, found all my device drivers, rebooted and runs great.
SourceMage GNU/Linux (Score:2, Informative)
Re:EVEN MORE!?!?! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:EVEN MORE!?!?! (Score:2)
Re:EVEN MORE!?!?! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:EVEN MORE!?!?! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:MODERATORS (Score:1, Troll)
Was it said already? Yes? Then yes it was redundant.
redundant:
adj 1: more than is needed, desired, or required;
Only one post stating that is needed, desired or required.
Re:MODERATORS (Score:2)
Re:build YOUR OWN linux distro (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Several commercial distributions (RedHat, Novell-SuSE) use their own branch of the Linux kernel.
On the other hand the GPL allows all the changes occuring in separate kernel branches to be incorporated in the main branch.
Re:Gentoo Catalyst (Score:2)
im not an artist, by the way