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A Babe in Tuxland 507

Posted by michael from the baby's-first-apt-get-dist-upgrade dept.
Joe Barr writes "This is the kind of story that WagEd and MS would love to see in one of their astroturf campaigns. But this story is real grassroots, with a real Sysadmin writing it and a real granddaughter as the babe using Linux. A sweet tale, with tips on Linux for kids." Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.
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A Babe in Tuxland More

A Babe in Tuxland

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  • Whoops. (Score:5, Funny)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <CGP@ColinGregor y P a lmer.net> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:23AM (#8803156) Homepage
    Tux babies, not Tux babes [michelazzo.com.br]


    -Colin [colingregorypalmer.net]

  • Sick! (Score:5, Funny)

    by CrankyFool ( 680025 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:23AM (#8803159)
    OK, how many people here were expecting someone, you know, kinda hot?

    SHE'S FOUR YEARS OLD! HAVE YOU NO DECENCY ?!

    -roy

  • Mission (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Daemonik CyCow ( 719521 ) <[moc.seirtsudninrabwoc] [ta] [nomead]> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:23AM (#8803160) Homepage Journal
    Man, I love this. This is the kind of thing I dream about at night, this is total evangelist fodder (can that be used in a good way?)

    • Yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)

      by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:34AM (#8803287)
      Has she compiled the kernel yet?

    • Re:Mission (Score:5, Insightful)

      by B'Trey ( 111263 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:46AM (#8803419)
      Yes, this is warm and cute and cuddly and completely precious. It's also complete and utter bullshit. Not that I'm saying it's not true - I certainly assume that it is true in regards to the facts of the situation. Howver, the conclusions it tries to draw are completely unrelated to the facts. It's a snow job.

      The basic interface between MS and Linux is essentially identical. It's point and click. There's only so much variation you can have. And yes, a child can learn to point and click on Linux just as well as they can Windows.

      But when people say Linux is difficult, they don't mean that it's difficult to figure out how to start a program, how to type text into a dodcument, or how to log on to the system. They mean that it's difficult to configure a printer, to setup the network, to install the driver for that new wireless card, etc.

      I've been using Linux for over ten years, and it has made tremendous strides. An average user can sit down and install Mandrake or SuSe or Red Hat without difficulty. They can fire up Open Office and type out a letter or open Mozilla and browse the web. They can do all of these things without difficulty - IF everything works right. The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows. That's what people mean when they say Linux is difficult to use, and four year old girls, no matter how cute and cuddly, do nothing to address that.

      • Re:Mission (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ckaminski ( 82854 ) <slashdot-nospam@ ... m ['r.c' in gap]> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:52AM (#8803495) Homepage
        As someone who's done his fair share of windows admin work (10 years, 3000+ users and PC's), I can tell you that the same is VERY true of Windows. With the exception of device support, which is unparalleled in Windows, there are just as many times when the shit hits the fan, and there's no quick solution in Windows, as there is in Linux.

      • Re:Mission (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Oblio ( 1102 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:11AM (#8803697)
        The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows.

        I don't know... when I'm diagnosing a friends problem because "things don't work right" in windows, maybe a quarter to a half of the time I end up with "time to reinstall"... The WORST I have in linux is "you compiled your kernel wrong".

        I think I'd rather debug a freak linux problem than a freak windows problem any day.

        That said, my problems with linux come from when you want to do something relatively simple (printer sharing comes to mind) and it becomes exceedingly difficult because there is no clear, concise documented method to get it done. (Note that I found a document that WASN'T the standard HOWTO that walked me through this recently, so I'm not saying that this particular problem is intractable)

      • You're a Troll (Score:5, Interesting)

        by soloport ( 312487 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:42AM (#8804085) Homepage
        So why am I headded over to my friend's house (a VP of Marketing -- no dumbass) this morning to help him get his printer to work on Windows?

        I help CPAs, Morgage Brokers, etc., every single day with the same crap people say makes Linux "hard".

        Look, computers are hard. Can't people see the forest for the religeous trees?! When you get used to one environment, anything else looks "foreing". That makes it real convenient to say "that... that... thing! It made me work at figuring this... this... thing I don't even have to think about in my world."

        You are just adding more religeon to the noise. Windows is much harder to learn -- in many respects -- as is Linux. You just don't run into many folks (yet) who've had to go the other direction: Linux to Windows.

        I've been using Unix for twenty years. Last environment used (before switching to Linux) was Solaris. Let me tell you, young whipper snapper, when I had my first try at Windows (1998). I about had a nervous breakdown.

        I still don't like Windows XP verry well. It just doesn't feel right. Everything is so fucking hard to get done in that stupid practically-windows-only environment, with a command prompt that won't auto-complete! Why is it 2004 and DOS won't auto-complete?! Morons.

        You're missing the very fact that in many, many cases, when "things don't always work right" you can't even get them back to working whatsoever -- as you watch Windows eat itself alive and laugh at you while it makes you play "pin the tail on the problem". It blindfolds you!

        Some people have paid me thousands to fix their Windows problems. Simple stuff, like getting printers to work or their Outlook to quit behaving "weird". Thousands, because they keep asking me to come back to do more -- install this software, fix this little glitch, remove this spyware my daughter installd ("my computer's slow"). Translation? "It's too hard for me to do it". In my opinion, it is Windows which isn't quite baked enough and ready for anyones' desktop.

        You want "easy"? Then everyone should be using a PDA or maybe a Mac.

        • Re:You're a Troll (Score:3, Interesting)

          by naelurec ( 552384 )
          I think the simple answer is "under the hood" Windows is significantly more complex and difficult than Linux. When the gooey goodness on Windows breaks, it tends to be very difficult to get it fixed.

          I do lots of admin -- I found lately I have been on an upswing fixing Windows boxes and realized that so many times the "solution" is a reinstall. Yikes.

          Within the last 48 hours, I have two instances where a full system reinstall is the "solution" -- someone was troubleshooting an email issue on w2k and a OEM

        • Re:You're a Troll (Score:3, Interesting)

          by B'Trey ( 111263 )
          I strongly suspect that you're a troll but I'll take a few moments to reply for the benefit of those that may take you seriously.

          First, I'm not a zealot. Computers are tools. They aren't spouses or lifemates or religions. They're just tools that do a job. I use Linux for two reasons. One - it's cheap. I run a web server, a mail server, a couple of mailing lists, a DNS server, etc. on my home network (seven machines.) I simply can't afford to purchase Windows server software to do all that. (Well, I

  • Why logout? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Metasquares ( 555685 ) <slashdot.metasquared@com> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:24AM (#8803164) Homepage
    We were all surprised when on the second day K.D. asked her mom to log out so that she could have her login.
    Couldn't she have just used su?
    • actually, there is a nice button in kde that lets you start a new X session.

      Szo

    • Re:Why logout? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:45AM (#8803408)
      That poor girl, she's gonna be an outcast because she doesnt use windows. At school, she'll be disadvantaged. "Windows?" she will ask. "What is that?". All the other normal people will make fun of her.

      So, for your children sake, use Windows. Its the only socially acceptable platform available. If she was 16 and 200 pounds with glasses and terrible acne, sure, give her linux, or maybe even an apple (for the alternative lifestylers among us).

      Please, think of the Children. Use Windows.

      • The old circumsicion argument (Score:5, Funny)

        by PetoskeyGuy ( 648788 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:10PM (#8804383)
        A bit off topic, but I just had to listen to a similar argument used for circumsicion. He'll be different from every body else, so you better clip the tip of his penis off. I figure if he's that worried about fitting in when he's older he can make that decision himself.

        Or the truly disturbing one.
        "I want him to look like me when he's older".

        I never understood that last one. Do the kids eventually say - "Uh no Dad, lets not compare units today."

  • I've set up a GNU/Linux machine for my kids too (Score:5, Interesting)

    by darthcamaro ( 735685 ) * on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:24AM (#8803167)
    Like everyone else I've got alot of old hardware that Windoze won't run on - but you can run Open Office, Mozilla on top of KDE/GNOME on a Pentium I and it'll work for kids quite well. No need to upgrade and shell out additional cash. And hey KDE Games are GREAT for kids..and they're free!!!

  • Should have mentioned "parental controls" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bgat ( 123664 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:25AM (#8803174) Homepage
    ... like Linux's built-in features to prevent K.D. from accidentally finding sites that aren't age-appropriate, or at least haven't been pre-approved by Mom and Dad.

  • Four year old... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:25AM (#8803177)
    Yea, that's great. And when she starts having trouble you can just tell her to RTFM!

  • The phrases... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:25AM (#8803181) Journal
    My four-year-old granddaughter, K.D.
    ... and ...
    K.D. had watched her mom, my wife...

    ... have got me slightly worried. Slightly.

  • Sure, if you can dumb it down into a kisok... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:26AM (#8803182)
    The whole idea behind this setup is taking the time to put the system-important screens outside of the 4-year-old's view, so therefore she could click around the screen and even get to the web without getting into much trouble.

    A Windows-expert parent could set up Windows to be the same way. The key thing to having a kid be able to use a computer without breaking it is having a smart admin as a parent.

    • Re:Sure, if you can dumb it down into a kisok... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rusty0101 ( 565565 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:50AM (#8803466) Homepage Journal
      Might want to remember that the article is not about dumbing down the interface to make it "safe" for a child to use.

      It is about refuting the claim that Linux is "hard" to use.

      Can Linux be hard to use? Sure. At the same time if I turn off desktop icons and disable the TaskBar in Windows, you might find it hard to use Windows as well. That isn't the way Microsoft ships it, and the way Joe Barr configured his daughter's account is not the default view for Linux. In the default view for both Windows and Linux, you are working with a Point and Click interface. If you can learn one, you can probably learn the other, either as well, or instead.

      Then again I use four differen't OS's on a regular basis. You might have more trouble switching between two.

      -Rusty
      • a person. In this case its his daughter but same could be said for other types of people. I could go home and install linux for my parents and customize it for their particular needs. Chances are, if I did my job correctly, they wouldn't have too many issues.

        However, the issue arises when an average user has to do some setup themselves.. They buy a new printer, digital camera, etc. Thats where the issues are now in linux. On Windows you put in the cd that came with the product and a few clicks later

  • Kids can do it... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lukewarmfusion ( 726141 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:26AM (#8803184) Homepage Journal
    "My four-year-old granddaughter, K.D., hasn't had any trouble figuring it out, and if she can do it, you can too."

    User Intelligence:
    Boss with MBA 4-year-old girl

    Seriously, though - kids learn at some incredible rates. They pick up language, new skills, etc. so much faster than adults. We often have to fight through a lifetime of doing something one way in order to do it a "better" or just plain newer way.

    BTW, the article is chock full of acronym hell if you're not pretty familiar with Linux (not so worried about the /. community).

    • Re:Kids can do it... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pe1rxq ( 141710 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:34AM (#8803277) Homepage Journal
      One of the key things is wanting to do a job instead of wanting to use a certain tool...

      I have seen kids using sparc xterminals with netscape 4.75 (It was a few years back) on a linux system with twm as window manager for days without a problem, it wasn't until the first parents got to use them that there were complaints about it not being windows....

      Jeroen

    • Re:Kids can do it... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:48AM (#8803444) Homepage
      y daughter uses both linux and windows 2000. I catch her boting into linux on a regular basis to do her homework on OO.o or just plain websurfing or games like frozen bubble..

      I asked her what the difference is to her...

      she said, "nothing. they are both almost identical I like the KDE stuff better as it's prettier" when I told her that lots of people have trouble using linux her answer was, " that is stupid, there is almost nothing different..." my answer to her is "lots of times, adults are very stupid."

      remember that next time you deal with someone in Marketing whining that the color of her desktop is not what she wants or the new version of a app has a different icon or slightly different menu.

      lots of times, adults are very stupid.
    • That's supposed to be:

      Boss with MBA < 4-year-old girl
    • for years now. She's 4 and started using mine when she was about 2. At the time I didn't think she was old enough to use a computer but we bought a box of cereal that had a Mr. Potatoe head game in it. She wanted to play it so I popped it into my computer. There's this one game where Mr. Potatoe Head breaks a picture into 4-6 pieces and you have to put it back together. I glanced away for a sec and then I heard, "All done". I looked back and she had it put back together, I didn't even know she knew ho

  • $699 (Score:5, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:26AM (#8803186)
    These Linux tots better start their paper-routes and set up their lemonade stands early: Darl's going to be on his way to take their candy money.
    • Only if she is planning on using it in a comercial environment. Additionally, workstation fees are under $300 if I recall correctly. Joe may have a $1399 per processor server fee to pay, but only if he has a box set up as a server.

      Granted even the $300 single processor workstation charge is abusive to the consumer.

      -Rusty

  • linux is not hard (Score:3, Funny)

    by kwoff ( 516741 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:26AM (#8803190)
    Linux is not hard unless you convince yourself that it is.
    Somebody let Eric Raymond know that.

  • Wow, I'm not impressed. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:27AM (#8803201)
    A pre-schooler using a computer, I can't fathom that! Come on, seriously, why is this such a big deal? When I was two I could use a Commodore Vic20. That included plugging in cartridges, using the tape drive, and loading programs... Just like Dad and without a login.

    Almost a year ago my (at the time) 4 year old cousin was visiting my parent's house while I was in town. She asked for the laptop and fired up IE. She was on her favorite website (I don't remember what it was, Blues Clues?) in seconds. She knew the URL, she knew exactly where she wanted to navigate to, and she didn't need my help... I was utterly confused by the flashing, moving, and colorful icons. I couldn't discern what was clickable and what wasn't. She knew and that's all that mattered.

    Now... If I sat her down in front of a Linux machine w/KDE installed and told her "this is the IE icon" (or however she understood it) you don't think she would be able to do the same thing?

    This article reeked of parental excitement. Their child was interested in using the computer!!!

    Kids know computers... I realize that they are saying that KDE is easy enough for a child to use... Anything in X was that easy. It's the rest of Linux that isn't so easy.

    She was shoving the system tools off, "out of sight out of mind"... It's not so easy for a regular user of a system to do that. You might actually have to deal w/something on the computer if you aren't 2 years old.

    Linux is getting there but it certainly isn't as easy as they seem to be making it out to be. I wish it were but it's not and while I believe in advocating its use to everyone that might benefit from it, I don't think insulting people by saying "My two year old can use it, so can you" is the best way to go.
    • Yeah, when I was two and a half I could read the newspaper, that doesn't mean that kids who can't read the newspaper at that age are stupid. I was using Apple 2s in the same capacity as you were using your vic 20 when I was four or so (I didn't have access to a computer prior) but that doesn't mean everyone can.

      On the other hand, a four year old can use Windows just as easily as linux. You can do the same stuff to windows that you can do to linux. (Hide the taskbar, etc.) Of course, you will have to get a

      • Saying that linux is easy because a child can play games and mash the keyboard on it is ignorant and overlooks the broader issue of actually using the system to get work done.

        What kind of work do you need to get done? Writing and printing documents, spreadsheets? Sending and receiving emails? Browsing web pages? Designing web applications? All can be done on Linux just as easily as on Windows, provided you're trained in the appropriate Windows or Linux programs.

        Once configured properly (and both Wind

  • Old story, it's easy with a personal sysadmin (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fantomas ( 94850 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:29AM (#8803223)
    Software is easy for you, me or any four year old if you have a personal sysadmin to setup, configure, and support your usage. (grin) ...

    Seriously though the issue is - how easy is Linux/Windows/MacOS/any other software if you don't have a handy guru to help you configure and then support you when it goes wrong?

    The issue is not how easy a kid finds it when their dad is a software guru (though it's kinda cute, my Apple-crazy friend's 4 year old son is similar), but how Joe Public, who has no software engineer friends, finds setup and maintenance and patching.

  • K.D. (Score:2, Funny)

    by ZenBased ( 593709 )
    and her last names starts with an E ? That would be rather freaky ;)

    • Re:K.D. (Score:3, Funny)

      by Ripplet ( 591094 )
      and her last names starts with an E ? That would be rather freaky ;)

      No, it would just mean at least one of her parents was rather geeky ;)

  • Too young? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SirNAOF ( 142265 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:32AM (#8803257)
    As wonderful as it is to see a young child able to use Linux, is it really necessary for children use computers? They are wonderful tools, and there are many games for young children that help them learn, but really, couldn't the parents teach the children just as well?

    The real problem is when parents let their children sit in front of a TV or computer all day. There's a lot more to life than just staring at screens.

    • Re:Too young? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by John_Sauter ( 595980 ) <John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:46AM (#8803415) Homepage
      I think it is important for children to use computers, and not just the games.

      Computers barely existed when I was young, but, remembering that the most important skill I learned in High School was typing, I introduced my children to my Apple II when they were in elementary school. At first we would type their assignments together on the computer; later they did the typing themselves. Their comfort level with computers allowed them to find jobs in the computer industry, and with luck they will be able to support me in my old age.
      John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

    • As a professional programer I can tell you that beyond a shadow of a doubt you are a moron.

      There is nothing out side of the internet, and TV moved inside the net a long time ago!

      What do you think we live in sir? The 3rd world? We have Google!!

      Transportation is exactly that, a way of transporting you between various connections that would otherwise be unaccesable do to inconvienent firewalls.

      Grow up. Close the door. And be soothed by the soft mellow glow of your world.
    • There's a lot more to life than just staring at screens.

      Now why the hell didn't anyone tell me that earlier?! Oh, probably because I spent my youth building forts in a field and shooting BB guns at my friends.

      Remember, folks, people don't put friends eyes out, small brass balls do!

    • Re:Too young? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by javatips ( 66293 )
      No, it's not necessary for children to use computer, but children like to learn things. A computer is like any other thing they play with... And they like it because when they use it they learn stuff. My 3 years old daughter just love playing with the computer. She likes Bob the Builder web site, she like the 101 Dalmatians Print Studio... She can print dalmatians drawing, then she gets some pencils and start coloring them, then she take some scotch tape and tape the colored drawing on the walls.

      Most of th

  • What about seniors? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BillFarber ( 641417 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:33AM (#8803265)
    I'd be more impressed by a 90-year old figuring out how to use Linux.
  • When I was that age, if you asked me how to spell my name I would respond "D A M I A N Return" (Commodore PET user since before I can remember). And I learned how to count because you had to fast-forward the tape so-many-seconds to reach a certain game (TRS 80 model 100). Now maybe if she was programming....

  • Debian JR (Score:4, Informative)

    by robstah ( 537647 ) <robsterNO@SPAMdebian.org> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:33AM (#8803267) Homepage
    The Debian Jr. project [debian.org] has been around for quite a long time. Its aims are to package and maintain a collection of relevant applications for the younger generation within the Debian framework.

    This is very much an active project which is working with some of the other organisations. I myself have experimented with some of the stuff it includes with my niece. As mentioned in the article tuxpaint seems to be very popular for the pre-school age group.

    The growth of these "Custom Debian Distributions" (the contents of which can usually be used on a traditional Debian install) should help bring free software into lots more situations.
  • This is how to get linux onto the desktop and into the home. This girl will probably use linux for the rest of her life. This is great for the entire community. I dont know if one exists, but perhaps a website to turn kids to linux would be a great help the future of the OS. It is not as sexy or carry the bragging rights that kernel development does, but developing more software that a kid can use (not necessarily that young) opens the door to the next generation.

    KDE while not my WM of choice (dont be

  • It's sort of funny.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by budhaboy ( 717823 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:35AM (#8803291)
    reading other's comments that dis the author for merely dumbing KDE down to a kiosk... I presume those folks don't have kids. My son LONGS for the day he can 'use' a computer. He struggles with lack of freedom he sees in having to ask for help in using the computer (when his parents do not).

    It's important to allow toddlers the illusion of freedom, it helps reenforce the idea that curiosity can lead to great things.

  • So... (Score:5, Funny)

    by the_mad_poster ( 640772 ) <shattoc@adelphia.com> on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:36AM (#8803302) Homepage Journal

    My users are dumber than 4 year olds?

    Wait.. that's insulting to 4 year olds... sorry, let me correct it:

    My users are dumb.

  • I've thought to be true for quite some time. Linux really shines in its ability to customize the user's experience to fit the user's needs. This is a strongpoint that really lends itself to application in Elementary and Pre-Elementary learning enviroments.

    This article also highlights a good example of postive computer interacion where the childs family took and interest in their computer activites and really made the whole thing a good experience. Interesting reading.
  • Emily, my three year old could do the Mr Potato head game. What I found curious is the machine is dual boot and she knew which OS had the game. I'm glad other posters have mentioned using X is childsplay not linux. I've still not got full functionality from my radeon 9200 under linux. That said, I'd rather let Emily run amok in linux than window.

  • Perl, SDL, OpenGL, Festival, kids... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Speare ( 84249 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:46AM (#8803421) Homepage Journal
    In the evenings where I'm not busy, I've been writing my own Linux application for edutainment purposes. I call it Toy::World. My daughter is now four years old, and just the other day I created a new account on one home Linux machine for her to use.
    • Perl
      A kid's application should be like clay, changing it on a whim to try new things quickly.
    • SDL
      This Perl module provides scripted access to the SDL (Simple Direct-media Layer) libraries. Hopefully, this whole thing will be mostly portable to Windows.
    • OpenGL
      When the graphics are simple, and hardware assisted, a scripting language like Perl starts making more sense. The actual application logic doesn't need a lot of horsepower.
    • Festival
      I pipe many text messages off to Festival, since young kids aren't going to be able to read a prompt like "How many apples do you see?" I wish the TTS community had better packaging for alternative voices like MBROLA's extensions... I've yet to get anything but three pure Festival voices working.
    • OpenDE
      I want to develop Perl bindings to the Open Dynamics Engine, letting the on-screen toys "fall" and "bounce" and interact realistically. It looks very promising, but I'll save that work for later.
    • Toy::World
      My library consists of about 3000 lines so far, not counting the docs and auxilliary helper routines. I'm working to make extensions as simple and flexible as possible, so the curriculum can grow quickly and spontaneously.

    Toy::World will be able to handle basic lessons and drills at first, such as counting and adding, letter and shape identification. I want to start building on those ideas into the usual early-childhood skills of understanding money, subtraction, words, matching, memory skills, and animal identification.

    I've yet to work out the basic reward system, but I'm thinking of a sort of token-winning, token-spending theme, where you can play certain lessons to win on-screen coin tokens Mario-style, and some lessons may require spending those same tokens (or Mom can check out the totals for a few real-world benefits).

    With a lot more work, I want to get into more hands-on experimentation. Simulated water-pouring, block-stacking, multiplication drills, cause/effect lessons, and even networked "shared toys" simulations involving small groups of children.

    By that time I hope to have opened the project to community help. Contact me if you're interested.

  • Kids are Smart (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:47AM (#8803429) Homepage Journal
    I think this story nicely illustrates how smart children can be. I have a brother who just turned six, and has seen Windows installs so often he can do it (at least he instructed me last time when I did it). That said, he insists on Linux these days "because it has better games". By these, he means rafkill, xonix, and sopwith. For sopwith, he even figured the controls (which are about the most horrible ever - especially on a Dvorak keyboard) in a few minutes.

    I'm gonna give the kid a book about programming and see how long it takes before he writes some revolutionary app that only he could think of...
    • Forgot to add...

      He uses web and email. The other day I was working on a program to stream media over the internet. He asked me what I was writing, so I told him. Later, he woke me up and asked if he could use my computer. I told him to use the other computer, since mine was powered down. But he said he needed to use mine, because he wanted to send a movie to some friend. It took me five minutes to realize that he wanted to use the program I had been writing, and that was why de wanted to use my computer.

    • ... especially on a Dvorak keyboard ...

      You make your kid use a Dvorak keyboard? That's *evil*.

  • KDE, Mozilla Firefox, TuxPaint, TuxRacer ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by daveewart ( 66895 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:52AM (#8803488)

    My daughter is almost 3 and has been using her own KDE session on my Debian box for the past few months. I set up a username for her, so that I could log her in and know that she couldn't mess up anything I cared about.

    We were gobsmacked when we realised that she had figured out how to type her username and password, though. She was *so* pleased with herself when she got that sussed out.

    On her desktop, she has Mozilla Firefox set to go to BBC CBeebies [bbc.co.uk] - appropriate content for pre-school and you can't 'escape' the site, since all links are internal. She also enjoys using TuxPaint to draw pictures for us.

    I'm hoping she's going to do a spot of Toddler Linux Advocacy at the local playgroups soon ...

    • Bearing in mind that kids are pretty smart...you'd better hide the location bar, the "Tools" menu ...oh, and the "Manage Bookmarks" entry in the Bookmarks menu...

      Actually, if she's determined enough to bookmark the site, then edit it to point somewhere else, you'd better stop her saving pages...in case she edits a link and opens up the new, local page which has her link to www.innocentSoundingURLThatPointsToGoatPorn.com.

      I guess this is the same as the real world though...hide all the chemicals and p
  • Like the subject says a live Linux CD is good for
    kids so they can't touch the harddrive. I tried a live Linux CD with my kid but it was just KDE
    (I can recall which - probably linuxforkids.org)
    with some icons for some kid apps. In my opinion
    KDE is too much for kids. For young kids there should just be a icons for the apps and nothing
    else. However I notice in my preschoolers class they have a regular Windows box with kids apps and they see to figure it out.

  • Not a real world example. (Score:5, Funny)

    by doublem ( 118724 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:58AM (#8803563) Homepage Journal
    Based on the complexity of the language in the article, we can safely conclude that the grandfather is of above average intelligence and education.

    Given the warm and caring nature hinted at in the narrative itself, we can conclude that this individual probably married a woman of comparable intelligence, as he lacks the characteristics necessary to desire a shallow woman lacking in intelligence.

    We can also assume that his children, following the usual human pattern of using their parents' relationship as a template, made similar choices in their choice of a spouse.

    Thus we can see that this four year old is the product of at least two generations of intelligent people marrying intelligent people, with a clear value for nurturing their offspring.

    In short, this is about a smart kid with a caring family who learns how to use computers. Not applicable in the workplace, as this kid is probably smarter than most the people I work with.

    • Re:Not a real world example. (Score:4, Funny)

      by TheLoneCabbage ( 323135 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:24AM (#8803847) Homepage
      Given the warm and caring nature hinted at in the narrative itself, we can conclude that this individual probably married a woman of comparable intelligence, as he lacks the characteristics necessary to desire a shallow woman lacking in intelligence.

      Let's be clear about this. NO MAN lacks the characteristics necessary to desire shallow women.

  • Isn't that a little young? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Frag-A-Muffin ( 5490 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:59AM (#8803568)
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope my kids don't take a liking to computers at such a young age. I'm going to try to keep them away from computers for as long as I can. I'd rather them "play" the old school way. Take them outside as much as possible. Make them do more physical activities.

  • Not a surprise (Score:5, Funny)

    by elhondo ( 545224 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @10:59AM (#8803584)
    I'm pretty sure a lot of four year olds have been posting as AC's for quite some time.

  • I'm not surprised (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jht ( 5006 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:16AM (#8803744) Homepage Journal
    My not-quite 2-year-old son has been "using" an old iMac for a few months now. He used to watch my wife and I on our computers, and would scoot up to take the mouse from us and try clicking things. So I took a 4-year-old iMac we had around, set it up minimally, and installed a few kids' programs (Jumpstart Preschool, Finding Nemo, and a couple of others), and set it up so he could just wake it up, grab one of the programs in the Dock, and go to town with it.

    He mastered it very quickly. Now he calls it his "Mac-y", and asks to use it almost daily. We let him have a half-hour or so at a time, and he's picked up a decent amount of skill very quickly. He likes doing letter drills the most.

    Funny anecdote: one of the first times we let him use it, he was having a little trouble pointing the mouse properly. I went to help him position it, and he pushed my hand away and said "No!". After a minute, he figured it out himself. Now I help him with very little and don't volunteer it - I wait for him to ask.

    And a pet peeve: Why do all kids' programs require the CD to be present? Don't you know we can't trust a toddler with a CD? I have to make .DMG files out of each one, and have them automount at startup so he can use all his programs.
  • MS don't need this kind of thing. Everybody knows that a four-year old can use a computer if you lay the icons out nice and easy on their desktop. I'm sure many thousands of four-year-olds all over the world are capable of clicking on an icon and using a program. All my kids have their own profile on XP on our computers. They love it - customising their desktops, trying to guess each other's passwords...

  • So who followed the same procedure as me? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Beek ( 10414 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @11:25AM (#8803853) Homepage
    - Read headline, click on article
    - Quickly scroll through article looking for pictures of this "babe"
    - Found none, went to comments
    - Found out she was four years old
    - Forwarded michael's email address to perverted-justice.com [perverted-justice.com]

  • i started at 18 months (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cheeze ( 12756 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:08PM (#8804350) Homepage
    I started my kid at 18 months. I setup my file server to start up gcompris [ofset.org] automatically. I highly recommend it. It has age-based programs from coloring programs, to advanced math skills.

    I started off with him just adjusting the monitor and sitting on the keyboard. 4 months later, he's still doing some of that, but he's much more interested in the sounds, using the keyboard, and moving the mouse around. I have him using a cheap $20 trackball (the crappy one with the lights in it) and he still hasn't broken it.

    I fully expect to have him doing basic tech support for his mom when he's 3. by the time he's in school, he'll probably be the only toddler with his own laptop.

  • As a learning device (Score:3, Interesting)

    by digidave ( 259925 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @12:31PM (#8804647)
    I've found that my three year old son has learned spelling, phonics, fine motor control and problem solving at a far greater pace than his same-age cousin due to using a computer.

    I bought my son a used computer when he was two as a present for potty training. He generally runs Windows because of all the educational games, but does use my Linux computer for some games.

    My best tip is that your kid should learn to login themselves... it's a great way for them to learn to spell words. Change up the password every week or so and tell them which word it is. My kid learns to spell five or six letter words in a day or two.

    Anyway, despite possible problems with creating a computer nerd with no social life, I think two and three year olds should always have a computer available to them. Just limit the time they spend on it.

  • Linux hasn't been hard to *use* for ages.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by msimm ( 580077 ) on Thursday April 08, 2004 @01:37PM (#8805467) Homepage
    Its the installation, configuration and maintenance. The article isn't really even about Linux its about a few friendly applications and the logon feature. I converted my mother over to Linux a couple years ago and currently my wife has been using it for a little over 2 years (babe in tuxland).

    Its never been the day to do that causes problems, it installing new hardware, needing to change configurations, its all the little things people do in Windows and with their Apples everyday that quickly become monsterous with a Linux distro.

    Managing a Linux workstation still requires a level tolerance and patience that the average computer user doesn't/shouldn't have. I use it because I love using it, but there are times I'd like to throw the whole box straight out the livingroom window.

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