Lycoris Linux at ExtremeTech 360
Eugenia writes "Most of you probably remember Redmond Linux, the user-friendly distro that tried to duplicate the familiar WindowsXP UI feel under Linux. Well, there is no more Redmond Linux. The company recently renamed the product "Lycoris Desktop/LX". ExtremeTech features today a very favorable review of the distro, includes screenshots and information on the installation, network setup, desktop environment etc."
one more time (Score:1, Troll)
Re:one more time (Score:1)
Re:one more time (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:one more time (Score:1)
However I'm firmly against this brainless copying and re-implementing of prior art, you might consider mimicking a competetive product to ease migration for existing users towards your product. I'm not sure however if this is/was Redmond Linux' drive.
Re:one more time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:one more time (Score:4, Interesting)
Judging from the review, the best feature is that it works. The reviewer seems accustomed to Linux distros that fall apart when they're used. Printing sucking, no spell checkers available, difficult-to-install tarballs (I'm not clear on how he found that simpler, but, whatever.)
Making something simpler to use and less broken out of the box is a worthy goal Making things look like things that they are not is not a worthy goal. As I've found myself posting several times over the past couple of days, making something look like something whose functionality it poorly copies is a worse sin than making it look completely alien. If a user sees something, he brings a large set of expectations of behavior with that. When the look-alike doesn't function like he expects it to, he becomes frustrated and rejects it more completely than he would reject something that looked new. I've seen it happen plenty, and it's a foolhardy path down which we travel if this becomes the custom.
Re:one more time (Score:2)
And the basically-functional reader will note that my point wasn't that the look 'n' feel was sinful (I don't really care what it looks like,) it was that the functionality was that of Linux. If it works like Linux and looks like Windows, it'll be confusing. My point, if accepted, refutes your response. An interface that looks like something familiar better work in a familiar fashion, because when the comfortable look works strangely or unfamiliarly, it's a user experience disaster. Especially for the people who want things to be made painless.
Re:one more time (Score:2)
So claiming that it looks like Windows but will work in a confusingly different fashion is just plain hogwash. It doesn't, and it won't.
Max
Re:one more time (Score:2, Informative)
I don't think you would, or that you should, but millions of people are used to the way MS products look, so it's not surprising to see that there's a niche for people who are used to Windows but would like to try out this LUNIX thing. Most existing Linux users probably got there from Windows, originally, even those of us who also programmed Solaris and HP-UX for a living.
There are also aspects of the user interface that Microsoft has gotten right. Having a uniform standard for clipboard editing is good, as is having (fairly) common standards for menu access keypresses and even for keyboard shortcuts.
Funny... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Funny... (Score:5, Insightful)
Though I get your general point, 'Linux' wants nothing. This particular distribution of Linux wants it, and so do its target users.
Another distro, say Debian, can put together something completely different and yet still be a Linux system.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Funny... (Score:1)
There is a small mistake in your statement: Linux wants more users! There are two ways of creating market share: "evangelize and no compromise" (ie: RMS) or "integrate and migrate" (ie: MdI).
Re:Funny... (Score:1)
It does seem like a lot of work but it does help transistion a lot of people over. It what it takes to get my wife moved over. She wouldn't move if she wasn't comfortable and could do all the things she wants to do. I personally have been happy with blackbox but everybody has their own opinion.
Meeting the needs of consumers (Score:4, Insightful)
A wise man once said 'People have an irrational like of rubbish'. Hence Windows is very popular. So if Lycoris can get people to transfer onto Linux by making it 'just like Windows' and then gradually point out its other benefits it should make good progress in the Linux desktop market.
Ironic (Score:3, Funny)
Personally (Score:2, Interesting)
IMHO, Linux will dig its own grave by developing the shiny things that windows has instead of further strengthening its own unique aspects. [The grass is always greener on the other side]
Re:Personally (Score:2)
Re: Digging its own grave? (Score:2)
The OS itself isn't really the issue. It's already built on a solid foundation that other commercial OS's (MS, ahem...) are working quickly to emulate, due to their relatively poor initial choice for a foundation.
What really gives Linux a "bad name" is the slew of half-complete apps that are thrown onto distro CDs, all in an attempt to offer "bigger, better, more!".
Honestly, if you're a regular user of both Windows and Linux environments, count how many beta version of your Win apps you use, vs. beta versions of your Linux apps. I'm pretty confident you'll find at least 5x as many betas in use on Linux.
Being largely freeware, Linux has issues with lots of unstable/incomplete code floating around. (Often-times, code which has been abandoned - in the hopes that some other brave soul will pick up the source and continue the project.)
Distros like this one are sorely needed, because they weeded out most of the garbage, and only installed the apps that don't bomb too often and make the whole OS look bad.
Creativity = 0 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Creativity = 0 (Score:1)
Innovation comes from freedom (Score:2, Insightful)
Ximian didn't invent Evolution, it copied the Outlook (sole decent MS product, hmm, maybe not) application. .NET Framework isn't a Miguel original. It's an MS invention! Where did all creativity go?
RMS didn't invent GNU, it copied the UNIX (sole decent Lucent product at the time, hmm, maybe not) system. Selling a stable OS to home users isn't an MS original, or even an Apple original. It's a Mandrake innovation! Where did all creativity go?
The innovation comes from the added freedom.
Re:Creativity = 0 (Score:3, Insightful)
this could be really good... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:this could be really good... (Score:2)
Now all Lycoris needs is a reasonable marketing budget, and it has the opportunity to chip away some of Windows' user base. Which is the important thing, folks...by any means necessary.
Re:this could be really good... (Score:2)
Re:this could be really good... (Score:2)
Re:this could be really good... (Score:2)
Re:this could be really good... (Score:5, Insightful)
OR
We could make computer interfaces that require only those who WANT to dink with settings to ever have to. We could make OSes that actually get tasks done, and only tasks done. We could open computing to the (hopefully temporarily)illiterate and handicapped. We could, but they might be as 1337 as us then, might'nt they? Can't let that happen, can we, Stanley? I wish every techno-head who states that people should either: a) learn the CLI and the meaning of bin or b) be relegated to an overpriced, crashy, non-secured OS, would have to walk into a dentist office and be handed a drill and told to get to work on themselves. Expertise and aptitude carry as much responsibility as they do priviledge. If you hackers are so hot, make an OS that my cataract-dimmed mother can use to e-mail her grandkids even if she can't see anything smaller than 18-point fonts. Make it free, and make it reliable. If you can't, then go talk to each other in your high towers of computing prowess and leave the other 97% of us alone and in peace. You talk a great game, but the only ones you amuse are yourselves. You sit quivering at the prospect than one day the world might not need you as gatekeepers to the shrine of *nix. Well, quiver no longer. It's coming, and I for one will absolutely have a bald baby monkey when it does from sheer joy. Here, Elroy, have another bottle of Bawls and a light-up keychain that says SLACK. Relax in the knowledge that you don't seem to have a task or an accomplishment, because you traded it in for a lifestyle and a sub-culture.
Pick him up and take him out, I'm through with him.
Kudos to the people who care if people can actually use something, not just "operate" it. Lycoris may not have it all figured out, but at least they understand who made whom.
Re:this could be really good... (Score:2)
Yes, you can protect look and feel by way of a design patent as well as by other means. Microsoft won the Apple lawsuit because it turned out that Apple had licensed the Mac look and feel to Microsoft in perpetuity for no license fees for Windows 1.0. Smart move, Apple. The reason Windows is able to exist is because it is a licensed clone of MacOS.
Tim
Justification? (Score:1)
Re:Justification? (Score:2)
1. A premade CD that you can just pop into your drive instead of trying to do something "weird", like burning a distro set or doing an FTP install. (FTP? What's that?)
2. A paper copy of an installation manual. Nothing like getting confused in the middle of an installation and not having another machine handy for web access.
3. Sixty days of tech support. This is the one huge advantage that Microsoft generally has, so providing solid support for linux is a big step in the right direction.
Re:Justification? (Score:2)
Explaining to a newbie that there is no Network Neighborhood confuses alot of people. If anything it'll make a transition easier.
Re:Justification? (Score:2)
Re:Justification? (Score:2)
Anyway, the distro is really quite nice. You just run the installer, and it takes care of the details. You need to add a user (or users) and a printer, but while you're doing that the pakcages are being installed in the background. Keeping with the Calderalike intaller, you play solitare until the install is finished.
It starts up with a nice, friendly interface. I set some of my windows-only cow orkers on it, and they were able to Get Stuff Done with little to no problem. Wine is pre-configured and starts up windows programs with just a click. The network browser works on a windows network with little problem. About everything just works.
For me, it's a bit too sugar coated - but it's certainly acceptable. If I were going to deploy linux workstations today, replacing all of our windows machines, I would use Lycoris. It's the distro you give to people who aren't already into linux, and people that don't really *want* to get deep into linux.
They actually provide remote tech support for a reasonable fee, too (I'm not sure if it's via vnc, ssh, or something their own). It's really well thought-out and well implemented. The problem will be getting it sold and installed in enough places to keep them around. If they market it right, I don't see why that'll be a problem.
It Just works! (Score:2, Insightful)
Some people feel safe with the MS feel, but thats all it is a feel. Now people might feel safe with the MS feel and the raw nut of the OS.
-- Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled.
Re:It Just works! (Score:2)
Re:It Just works! (Score:2)
bla bla bla. (Score:1)
people want linux to be more mainstream, guess what, it needs to act more like what people are used to. do we rip a hole in nintendo for featuring analog controllers just like sony did? it's about convenience. get over it.
Re:bla bla bla. (Score:2)
Re:bla bla bla. (Score:2)
If you meant, on console, *did* Nintendo beat Sony's Dual Analog stick? I can't remember; I got both at about the same time...
GTRacer
- Doesn't change the fact that the N64 stick sucks...
Just KDE... (Score:3, Funny)
Lycoris? (Score:2)
Re:Lycoris? (Score:2)
I don't know why they took this name, probably nothing software-ish that had this name.
Here you can see some pictures of the Lycoris flower [google.com]
Re:Lycoris? (Score:2)
and now i will just type here for a few seconds so i can hit submit without that damned 20 seconds warning. ok. that should do it... stupid lameness filter.
Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:5, Insightful)
This could be what we need to migrate linux newbies away from Windows... if it delivers on all the promises.
Example. I am a Win95 trained junkie. Certainly not a clueless one who just uses it to e-mail grandman, but my sumo was insufficent to deal with Linux. Last year, at the advice of a friend, I got a second hard drive and installed Debian onto it alongside my Windows disk. Configuration was a nightmare; it took multiple visits by my Linux guru uncle to get the networking going, THEN we had to try and get Xwindows to deal with my video card, and we never got sound to work properly. In the end, the wholly alien system and configuration woes (try as I might, I couldn't get package manager tamed) led me to disuse the Linux side of my computer, and eventually format over the disk so I could have more Win 9x storage.
But this... this could be what I want. Something that's simple without sacrificing power. It doesn't have to clone windows as long as it's not like herding cats trying to get the thing to work properly. Every feature I could want -- autodetecting of video and sound, installation of various key applications, graphical frontend for nearly everything you could need to do -- is here.
So what's the catch? Has anybody worked with this thing? A second opinion is always key. Does it have weaknesses, stumbling blocks that would leave a newbie floundering around in icy water without a life preserver? I might very well join the Linux hordes if this distro meets my needs in a fairly comfortable manner.
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:3, Interesting)
Reading these comments here, I'm not surprised to see a few whiny comments ("We don't want it to look like MS!"), but I *am* surprised to see so much feedback for "starter" distros (like Mandrake, RH, or Redmond). Good. We mustn't alienate as we conquer.
P.S. Why'd they change to "Lycoris"? Someone needs to restore some dignity to the Redmond name. Besides, "Lycoris" sounds like a disease. ("I'm sorry, Johnny, but you have lycoris. You have six weeks to live." "Gosh, Doc, what do I tell my family?")
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:3, Funny)
catch? it's not like windows (Score:2)
Seriously, with a pricetag like that, it sure isn't much of a risk. Why not just give it a try?
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps you should have tried to "deal" with Linux yourself, instead of hiring a sumo to do it for you.
"Spare some salt, tubby?" --Homer
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
Not to start a holy ware, but...
No friend should recommend debian to a complete unix/linux newbie. It errs on the side of making no decisions for the user... which can be problematic.
I would have recommended something like SuSE or Mandrake which have excellent installs and configure everything for you. However, they also allow you to "mature" into not having to use the configuration tools if you don't want to.
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
SDB: Printing with CUPS [sdb.suse.de] looks good... I also had to upgrade the gimp-print plugin to have it work with CUPS. Good luck.
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
Linux filter page for Minolta printers [minoltaeurope.com]
I found that link here:
MinoltaEurope.com [minoltaeurope.com] (interestingly MinoltaEurope.com is running Apache!) - search for "linux" on that page and you can find their announcement about the partnership (no date specified though, could be way out of date).
ESP Print Pro [easysw.com] is based on CUPS but it is a commercial product with more drivers. I found a couple drivers for QMS products with their printer search choice on their page there. Most of the drivers looked to be postscript so you might be able to simply use a standard postscript driver and not have to deal with product specific drivers.
Searching around on usenet at groups.google.com with "linux qms 1100l" found some interesting stuff... Does the printer do PCL? Some tips there.
Good luck and hope you get it working.
Re:Too good to be true for Linux newbies? (Score:2)
You should be running XFree86 4.1.0.
Finally, a distro that gets it (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people might like that other distros give you the option of 5 different CD players, some of which may be in beta, or pre-beta - but most people just want a CD player that works. Ditto with other application categories. It's better to include solid software that is known to work, but might not have every last bell and whistle.
-josh
Re:Finally, a distro that gets it (Score:2)
One of the great things about Linux is that there is so much good software available for Free on the net. No matter how much the distributors cram into their packages, they will always miss some of the more obscure applications I might like to use. Therefore, even as a 'power user' I find this approach much more sensible.
Re:Finally, a distro that gets it (Score:2)
Yes indeed (Score:2)
Which actually supports your basic point. The distro builder's job is to make decisions about what the system should look like, not duck responsibility by throwing in the kitchen sink. As you say, Lycrois seems to get it.
I have a Linux test box with a fairly jumbled setup I've been meaning to reinstall from scratch. Been dithering between Mandrake, Power Linux, and our old friend RH. But now I'm convinced Lycrois deserves a look. If even the network setup works as advertised, the distro will have proved its worth to me.
Re:Hate to tell you this but... (Score:2)
Been smoking a bit too much crack, I see. Windows still doesn't come close to approaching the stability of Linux, even with Win2000 (XP isn't as stable as 2000 no matter what Bill and his fanboys claim).
Microsoft is indeed known for its bells and whistles, but unless you've been living on Rigel VI for the last ten years no one but the most clueless of sods would claim their products are stable.
Max
Gripe all you want (Score:5, Insightful)
'Why do I wan't an operating system that looks like windows?' or 'where do they get off charging $30?' but this has got me to stand up and look.
I use free bsd/linux for servers
the world that NEEDS photoshop, because its what all your business contacts use
THIS
i especially like the sound of the installer
The fact that the 2 main kicks in the article are about its web-browser and e-mail warms my heart, since this is what the average joe in the world uses their computer for anyways. Appealing to the folks who are afraid of anything new is a good step i think.
As for who would want a desktop that looks like windows ? How about every existing customer who currently USES windows ? Folks who 'poo-poo'the windows look and feel should get off their college-I-need-a-crusade-I-will-commit-myself-to-
Most people out of college (lets say
so anything that can get the mass market less afraid is a victory in my opinion.
Re:Gripe all you want (Score:4, Insightful)
i think you'll find mandrake is MUCH easier to install than windows. most people just assume the installer is more difficult because they have never actually installed windows... it just came pre-installed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Gripe all you want (Score:2)
For attended installs, I think that recent Mandrake installs are pretty comparable to a Windows XP installation and a bit easier than a win2k install (the blue screen partition tool in win2k just sucks). And pretty much anything is better than doing a Windows 9x install, I hate those with a passion.
Re:Gripe all you want (Score:2, Insightful)
I know Mandrake and RedHat allow you to do a similar feature. In Mandrake, you can create a special boot floppy at the end of the install that will allow you to perform the same installation steps on a different machine. Mandrake also automagically creates a "replay_install.img" disk image in the
You are right about the bad news with disk cloning software. We got away with it for years here where I work (cloning WinNT) because our hardware has been kept extremely standardized. But now that we are bringing in new hardware, cloning is less of an option.
Re:Gripe all you want (Score:2)
As a Windows user, I object to your assumption that I have never installed the OS!
As a matter of fact, I have to RE-install it every month or so!
The MS Support Tech told me that's what I should do.
Yep Mandrake is easier too install (Score:2)
& the whole installer works without having to reboot half a dozen times like the Windows installer does.
You just boot the CD, click ok about 20 times or somthing, then it reboots & you are on the desktop with everything configured.
Well that's a bit simplified, but you know what I mean.
Re:Gripe all you want (Score:2)
Unfortunately, another thing the average joe windows user wants it to watch (mostly) stupid movies that generally come in quicktime/asx format, and play (mostly) stupid flash games.
I think the biggest area where Linux lacks desktop applications is multimedia. It's not that there aren't any good applications - I get by quite well with xmms, realplayer for Linux, and XMovie for mpegs - but too much content is in proprietary formats that simply can't be used on Linux, and this is generally the more popular content.
Why this is an excellent idea... (Score:4, Informative)
Making the tools similar to what they are used to will get rid of most of that problem.
The big benefits come to an office with what ISN'T included in this package -- BSODs, Fatal Exceptions, and 5x-daily reboots.
It took me two years, but eventually I had trained most people in the office to accept the fact that Excel, IE and Word crashed on a regular basis. No, it was not their fault. Reboot and get on with life.
The final benefit was the statement "it is pure Linux in there".
Power to those that know how to find/use it. Functionality to those that don't.
If it passes the 'wife test' (Score:2, Interesting)
my $.02
Don't be a zealot, guys. (Score:5, Insightful)
A distribution like this can be installed in an office enviroment. Think about it, if you have a small company with little money to spare on software licenses, for $30 you can have a complete turn-key workstation solution for everyone. Just don't give the receptionist root!
Anyway, can we please demonstrate more maturity and wisdom by not instantly bashing a distro that tries to attract new people? These newbies aren't stupid, they just don't want to spend 2 weeks setting up and tweaking out their first linux box. They don't have geek jobs and they make more money being doctors, lawyers, etc.
Victor
Explained.... (Score:2, Offtopic)
Ok, now we know that this review was leaked from the future.
Far future.
EXTREMELY far future, I'd say
Oh, here it comes. (Score:2, Insightful)
No, its not ironic that a linux distro would look like Windows. No, your operating system does not make up for your lack of length. Yes, you do want people to actively explore this option. Unless of course, you like being a bitter little man.
The only way I will ever move the wife and kiddies over to Linux is if it makes sense. It does not make sense to move them to a clusterfcked environment where every dork in a closet wants everyone else to absorb his particular brand of dystopia. It would make sense to move them to a user-friendly, elegant, secure environment where I can turn off options that would let them break things. This is where something that looks and feels like what the wifage and kiddies are used to would come in handy.
It could just be me... (Score:2)
Re:It could just be me... (Score:2)
WINE - for the record (Score:2, Informative)
Just for the record, Wine Is Not an Emulator!
I just had to put that out there so anyone unfamiliar with WINE who read the article didn't learn it the wrong way. The WINE folk [winehq.org] are clear that they like the idea of "Windows Compatability Layer" much better than "Windows Emulator."
Re:WINE - for the record (Score:2)
Re:WINE - for the record (Score:2)
Thanks! It just seems to me that the terms are not always used correctly. Using these definitions, AMD's x86-64 simulator [x86-64.org] is an emulator, and dosemu [dosemu.org] is not (so it should be called DINE :-).
Easy to Use UNIX/UNIX-like distro? (Score:2)
Mom will get MacOS X, my server will get Linux or if I am really nice, BSD.
Excitement (Score:2)
CD burining (Score:2)
They didn't address that in the article, but if I could install it and have evrything working, including the cd burner, I'd go out a buy a copy today.
I purchess all my distro these days. what better way to support Linux development?
Easy install/nice interface is all fine and good (Score:3, Insightful)
But until software developers (specifically free software developers) catch on and learn that new users and people switching to Linux are not going to want to compile every single app, and start providing more binaries, Linux will be a tough switch for the new user.
I'm a long time Windows and Mac user, who recently bought Mandrake 8.1 after I got sick of Windows. Installed beautifully. I love KDE. Plug and Play actually works...
Then I started downloading some usefull apps that I wanted. They were all source. NONE of them would compile on my machine with the instructions that the developer provided. I'm not a computer newbie. I even understand some programming. But I'm not a C expert. Something that most developers seem to think everyone is.
So, this is a message to all you Linux developers, building cool little apps for people to use: We don't all have your development machines, with every single library in existance. You want your software to really catch on and help make Linux attractive to new people? Provide binaries that are easy to install.
My own experience with Desktop/lx (Score:5, Interesting)
I am an Unbeliever, by nature. Tell me that a distro is easy to use, and I will ask you what your biases are that lead you to make such a statement.
SO I ordered a CD of Desktop/lx to run my own tests. I built a box from parts, just so I could have something to test it on. And then I ran my own little lab using Mandrake 8.1, Windows 2000 Professional, and Desktop/lx.
The machine is this: Abit SL6 motherboard, Intel Pentium 4 1GHz processor, NetGear FA310tx NIC, ATI Rage128 Pro AGP card, Maxtor DiamondMax 30GB HDD, a generic 1.44 floppy, HP cd12-series CD-RW. Total RAM: 384MB.
The first install was Mandrake.It installed, but didn't recognize the card on installation. I got it working, but only in 16 color, 640x480 resolution. It did not recognize the VIA onboard sound, nor the CD burner. As an out-of-the-box install, it wouldn't have won any prizes. I purposely did not spend any time on it, as I was testing the distro's ability on a clean, simple install.
Next, I tried Win2K, just to give myself a benchmark. After all, hardware manufacturers almost universally create their wares for the MS world. Surprisingly, the Win2K also did not handle the Rage128 correctly, leaving me with the job of downloading and installing the new driver. Same for the cd-burner. I have to say, I was pretty shocked. I expected the machine to install right away.
The Lycoris distro happened to arrive in the mail that same day, so I blew away the partition for a third time and popped the disk in.
Installation was a breeze. After answering a few questions, the file-copies started, leaving me with a Caldera-like configuration, answering network and user-creation questions. Having answered all those, I got to play solitaire for a bit. After the copying was finished, I started the X configuration. The card was recognized and configured on the first try with no input from me. After I rebooted the system, I was left with a KDE system which had been themed like Microsoft's XP. And here's where things got interesting.
On the desktop was a cute little Network Browser icon. I clicked on it, largely to see how much it failed in my work environment, where I have Win2K servers and workstations, Linux servers and workstations, and Win98 laptops. The Win2K servers are running an Active Directory tree. The browser not only found them all and displayed them, I received access under my normal user account to all resources on the network. On the first try.
All in all, I think this distro is one to watch...
Networking? Jeez (Score:2)
Pity there's no Netware support. Or is there?
I guess the reviewer didn't try a laptop install (Score:2)
Why does everyone say you have to pau to try it? (Score:2)
Autoconfigured WINE info? (Score:2)
We can talk all we want about how we want people to transition over from Windows, and I'm certain many would like to, but they are addicted to a specific windows program that isn't on Linux (perhaps a filesharing program, a game, Nandub, or some such thing). A working WINE would win over so many peeople to Linux that the effect could be huge. Linux advocates simply can't get in through their heads that you can't do everything in Linux that you can do in Windows. When they tell users the opposite and their lie is found out, it makes people bitter, turns them off, and makes them wonder what other lies are a part of standard Linux advocacy. WINE is the way to fix that. If we want to dramatically increase the Linux user base (and it's not obvious that we should) WINE is the answer. I'm glad this distro is taking it seriously, and I hope others do too.
Minor problem: too dashed user-oriented (Score:2)
I will only use it at length once it can do what Windows can do, for my only critical application (Apache).
Re:maybe the wrong direction ? (Score:2)
Wouldn't this mean "follow Apple" ?
other features (Score:2)
Just so long as it does try to duplicate those ever so helpful crashes and blue screens.
Of course, you could always run a shell script and have a blue screen display with the appropriate message at semirandom intervals, just in case people want the complete eXPerience.
Re:Review of New Distro XYZ! (Score:2)
I'm almost certain that you mean "Windows is not easy for me to use." And possibly you can assert "Windows is not easy for me or anyone I know to use." But to make such a bold statement as yours is to ignore a basic fact of user interfaces: not everyone thinks the same way. I'm willing to bet that there are a large number of people who DO find Windows easy to use. There are also people out there who dislike the Macintosh UI. Designers of user interfaces need to target these large groups of people with similar ways of thinking, but must never lose sight of the fact that there is enormous diversity in what people consider "intuitive".
Re:Review of New Distro XYZ! (Score:2)
Windows is also hard to develop an intuition for. I have yet to meet anyone who, when asked to use a feature they've never used before, knows where to find it. People will generally use the same features they're accustomed to using, so people can deal with Windows pretty well: they learn where a few things are, and use those. In part, the Windows UI is broken intentionally, because people will only get a new version if the new version does something that the old one didn't, and, if the new version behaved as expected, people wouldn't use any features other than the features they already knew.
Re:Review of New Distro XYZ! (Score:2)
You're a Mac user (at least, that's how I read "The Macintosh is easy to use."). Fine. Did you have a paradigm shift when you went to either a CLI or to KDE? How difficult was it to re-learn everything? Sure, if you put some effort into it.
But Joe AOL doesn't want to put that effort in. He just wants it to work the way he's *USED TO A COMPUTER WORKING*. And that's the MSWin UI.
Incidentally, that's probably another reason Linux is a harder sell to home users. Is there an AOL client? Don't laugh. How many people out there just want to log in to AOL and check their mail? They know how AOL works, and again, they don't want to put in the time to learn Mozilla/KMail/Eudora/Opera/Konqueror/Whatever.
The laws of inertia (there's got to be a formal HCI name for that) rule.
Re:Review of New Distro XYZ! (Score:2)
Ahem. There are 22 million Americans on AOL. There are 100 million Americans using the internet. Therefore, an AOL client, while a nice thing to have isn't as vitally important as some people seem to think. Not to mention the fact that AOL isn't as popular outside the US.
Re:Review of New Distro XYZ! (Score:2)
Re:Destkop Linux Double Standard (Score:2)
The fanatics - usually not very tech-savvy folks, from what I've seen - seem to think that there's some sort of holy war going on between Windows and Linux and that they are one of the 'chosen few' entrusted with the mission to spread the word. I despise these folks just like I despise the BillG-tools and every other stripe of fanatic out there. Pain in the goddamned ass, they are.
Most Linux folks aren't like this. They don't give a shit about *your* OS. The fanatics are a vocal minority, but still a minority.
Max
Re:A distro my dad can use (Score:2)
This distribution just might be the answer to getting the friends and family set up without having to sign a chunk of my life away as evening tech support. I'm definitely going to have to check this out.
Max
Re:Q for window manager folks... (Score:5, Informative)
Someone tried. The project is "Qvwm". I don't know if it is actively maintained, as I can't hit the website. Try getting more information here: http://www.icewalk.com/softlib/app/app_00661.html [icewalk.com]
Re:How much do I save? (Score:2)
Can't find it on the site, though.