No OLPCs for Cuba, Ever 620
An anonymous reader writes "In a move going largely unnoticed by developers, the OLPC project now requires all submissions to be hosted in the RedHat Fedora project. While this may not seem like a big deal, the implications are interesting. First, contributors have to sign the Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement. By being forced to submit contributions to the Fedora repository they automatically fall under the provisions of US export law. So, no OLPC for Cuba, Syria and the like. Ever."
for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Interesting)
Like John Stewart said, we've given up trying to kill Castro with food poison, now we're trying to kill him with "old age poison." If we wait long enough, the regimes will eventually fall, and we can then claim it was all because of the embargo.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Informative)
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With Cuba, it's personal (plus sugar lobby...) (Score:5, Informative)
But Cuba's main agricultural product, besides tobacco, is sugar, and the US has had high tariffs on sugar for a long time. Not only does that prop up US sugar producers (mainly Louisiana, Hawaii, Florida_) by keeping the US sugar price far higher than the world average, but the High-Fructose Corn Syrup lobby likes high sugar prices because they can put their dreck into our soda, while the rest of the world gets to have Coke with real sugar in it. So the Archer Daniels Midland gang also don't want free trade with Cuba.
I'd recommend that next time you're in Canada, you get some Cuban cigars, except for the problem that they put carcinogenic flammable tobacco products in the things....
Re:With Cuba, it's personal (plus sugar lobby...) (Score:5, Informative)
Florida has 25 elecotoral votes, 4th behind California (54), New York (33) and Texas (32).
The US Electoral College is a winner takes all system, so the presidential candidate who wins the popular vote in any state, no matter how small the margin, gets all the electoral votes for that state. In 2000 Bush beat Gore in FL by a tiny fraction of a percent, winning all 25 of FL's electoral votes, and thus the election. Anti-Castro Cubans are not a big group, but they are concentrated in FL and they are single issue voters (whereas anti-embargo voters are neither), so they can swing a close presidential election. So their influence on Cuba policy is disproportionate.
Something that is overlooked is that even if Castro lives to be 120, the US policy will change eventually because the Anti-Castro Cubans are getting older too, and their children are more moderate. And a lot of them would like to visit their homeland some day.
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the embargo is a two-edged sword (Score:5, Informative)
Here's a perk of living in (even rural) Canada: I go down to the garage/general/liquor store, and there on the shelf is Havana Club, "Ron puro Cubano," mmm, great is right. And cuban coffee in the cupboard, it's only pretty good but it's organic.
There may be long-term competitive benefits accruing to Cuba out of the blockade and its hardships.
The whole island has pretty much gone organic [sustainabletimes.ca], as part of the austerity produced by the embargo, and they're trying to turn that constraint into a strength. When the embargo finally drops in the US, watch for cuban specialty products showing up in the organic food stores.
They need an internationally credible domestic certification system to really flourish, however the embargo has forced them to look hard at their local food security, so they'd be okay if international trade was interrupted. They have international trade in things like organic fruits and coffee, and they've made interesting innovations with domestic distribution in mind, like the Organopónicos. [cualtos.udg.mx]
The embargo has created constraints that make it an interesting testbed for development without the overwhelming influence of large transnationals. It's a race between the international organic sector to help establish Cuba as an entrenched organic ag system and the influx of Life Sciences transnationals that might happen if there's regime change.
Cuba's ripe turf [newsvine.com] for donated linux-ready systems, so support that goal [computeraid.org] in some way. There's enough real zeal [vnunet.com] for independence and common interests to make it a interesting test bed for a society running on open-source software.
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They are already a world power in advanced medicine. I personally know some people that went to Cuba for treatments that don't exist anywhere else. I read they are becoming great at biotech and registering patents like crazy.
Sure, it's a dictatorship but the social indicators for Cuba are among the best in the World. Even in the human rights issue, Cuba ranks better than many american countries, including... cough, cough, the USA. If it wasn't for this dumb embargo, Cuba would have gone democratic many
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Or a direct link to the image of the Coke can with ingredients: http://bp3.blogger.com/_yepdryo6x-A/RmbpSd3a7OI/AA AAAAAAAy0/pdbVoFMNxj0/s1600-h/CokeIngredients.jpg [blogger.com]
Looks like Canadian Coke uses sugar.
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No, they just need to return the confiscated real estate to their rightful owners and/or their kin.
As for China being a worse offender — yes, indeed. Although I doubt, China's "terrible attrocities" match Castro/Guevarra's per-capita, it was a black day, when Clinton gave China a preferred trade status — temporary at first, then permanent in 2000...
US media was applauding him, and the illiberal heavy-weights like New York Times even criticized the few lawmakers, who tried to prevent the bill
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
How are our insurance companies supposed to turn a profit with shit like that going on?
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Informative)
Fixed it for ya.
Oh, damn, I didn't see the "don't feed the trolls" sign. Sorry.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Informative)
Castro lives in a shack compared to the average upper middle class in the US.
When I say that children will get the best first in Cuba its just a continuation of their philosophy. Schools have better computers than banks in Cuba. If you aren't working you are in school in Cuba. They know its the best defense against being exploited again. You can't exploit a society thats smarter than yours.
What you need to do is assume everything you hear on Fox news is the opposite of how it is in Cuba.
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Castro built the system, he dosen't walk around and point to 18 year old girls and say "come with me" and they have to. No, it dosen't work that way. Castro believes in Communism because his early adult life showed him that capitalism (owning of property, having people indebted..etc) lead to nothing but misery for Cuba. Cubans were second class citizens in their own country under American rule (everything owned by
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The embargo also shows how lackadaisical the majority of the Cuban people (that stayed) are. Nice people but will just kinda go with the flow with whatever.
For the most part, the US embargo really did nothing as Cuba was fine until the fall of communism in the Soviet Union.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Informative)
When Castro dies, his brother Ramon will take over. And he is a stalinist-type communist.
Fidel himself was not a (pure) communist from the beginning, but as Cuba was isolated by USA after the revolution he had to go to Soviet for help (economical and other).
And by that the regime went to communism.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Funny)
I thought his brother was Raul?
By the way, did you ever wonder what happened to the other Castro Brothers?
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
It means there's a nice warm international vacation destination with no Americans.
Now, that's something that money just can't buy.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Interesting)
We're not so bad... [reuters.com]
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That being said the reason I think US tourists get such a bad rap with other tourists is because they like to travel aroun
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My wife and I have gone on several trips to Canada (specifically BC and Yukon). We were very happy there were no other Americans around, because even in the metropolis of Vancouver, most people are very friendly unlike in American cities. Actually, we did run across one total jerk; he was American.
So yes, I'm happy to go on vacation where there are no Americans around, and I am an American!
The plain and simple truth is that Americans tend far more often to be assholes than peopl
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And for what it's worth, down at the Jersey Shore, they have quite a few choice things
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Well, French culture (for example) may share a lot mo
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
First off, ram that smug, goddamned smiley back up your rectum where you found it.
Don't give me any of your jingoistic, fascist "love it or leave it" horseshit. Not while we suck the asses of the fucking bastard Saudis (who provided the 9/11 folks), North Korea and the rest of the motherfucking countries willing to accept our "unlawful combatants" for torture, since we want to play Pontius Pilate with them. Sure, let's hear it, America -- "I am innocent of the blood of this beaten, shocked, genitally-mutilated man whom the Turks display to us."
Didn't your mother ever tell you, "Pick on someone your own size"? We fuck over Cuba for the same reason a dog licks it's own asshole -- because he (we) can.
We are a nation of buttfucking, cowardly bullies.
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
And this impression is absolutely right. As the sanctions damage the economies of the countries in question and perpetuate the strife, the regimes do and will continue to change: from anti-US, aggressive, and violent... to MORE anti-US, MORE aggressive and MORE violent.
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Right now, there are some good and bad things in Cuba.
You get decent health care and a good education, but no car, bad food, bad paid jobs and stuff (a lot of bad stuff, in fact).
Let's not talk about lack of freedom of speech, executions without trial, or with fake trials, because that is not inherent to Cuba and its regime.
If Cuba was allowed to trade freely, there would be a possibility that life in Cuba would be better (or not, of course), and that could be perceived as their sy
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
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The US embargo of Cuba is not something people in the US take seriously. One of the "perks" of going to Mexico is bringing back a bottle of Cuban rum or a box of cigars. Most of us are mystified why the embargo wasn't lifed in 1991; engagement works better against communism than isolation (see: China.)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Informative)
If you've travelled abroad lately from the US, you know that the folks at Homeland Security take their jobs very seriously. Also, the State Department has been nailing US citizens who have visited Cuba without authorization with very stiff fines. When they do find out you've visited there from a 3rd country (and they will), expect a registered letter or summons to appear in federal court. It's happened to people I know. Fines and court fees can run in the thousands of dollars.
Cuban products are also considered contraband in the US and therefore are just as illegal as if you were smuggling pot or cocaine. If you are found with cuban made cigars, rum, etc. on your person that you have not declared, you can be detained, prosecuted, fined, and possibly jailed if you get a nasty prosecutor. Not at all worth it for an authentic mojito and a few cojibas IMHO.
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Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Funny)
So, what about Europeans? Can they visit Cuba too?
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
Not too smart, are you?
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
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The crisis all started when missiles were deployed in Turkey. Perhaps a hair over 100 miles but still only 16 minutes from Moscow. At the time the US had 8 times the nukes as the USSR and much better delivery. The USSR had crappy cruise missiles to be launched from submarines on the surface (range about much less the the US polaris missiles 1000 mile range) and like 4 big ICBMs and a few mor
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Informative)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Informative)
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Some of us ARE literate! (Score:2)
-Rick
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Nope. The embargo on Cuba is purely a US matter. There was a time when the US could bully plenty of Central and South American countries into honoring it, but the US is pretty much alone these days. Neither the UN nor the UN Security Council has ever had an embargo on Cuba.
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Re:for always and eternity (Score:5, Insightful)
There are places where economic embargoes, or the threat thereof, may have significant benefit. Libya's acquiesence to UN demands regarding the Lockerbie suspects and checmical and nuclear programs probably came about in part due to economic pressures that prevented foreign companies from investing significantly in its oil fields. And Iran instituted fuel rationing a couple of days ago in response to threat of embargo of gasoline trade into the country in an attempt to build up reserves in anticipation of trade sanctions. Iran has extremely limited refining capabilities, and so imports around a third of its gasoline, and then subsidizes it to 20% of its market price. The response was the destruction of several fuel stations, some small riots, and a very divided and irritated parliament taking up the issue.
However, in order for trade embargoes to really work, they usually have to be nearly universal, though even then there is no guarantee. North Korea is a prime example here, where the leaders keep such a tight lid on the people that they don't fear uprisings, while they live in comfort that their people can barely even dream about. However, recent targeting of leadership assets overseas has brought pressure there that tangible results (a scheduled shutdown of DPRK's reactor in July) may be coming about.
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Cuba never had anything valuable other than location for Russia, ICBMs made it irrelevant long ago
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They won't change unless there is someone in the Whitehouse who isn't too busy doing the "LA LA LA, I can't hear the Commies off the Florida coast..." to change the stupid law.
We trade with China, what's the big deal? Other than dirt cheap [often low quality] products, I fail to see the difference.
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because US laws and export restrictions never change. ever.
When it comes to Cuba, that's pretty much a given. Cuba has vowed to keep their current system in perpetuity and the US has vowed never to lift the embargoes as long as that is the case. That impasse is enforced by the Cuban expatriates and disgruntled corporations on the US side and the Castros and people with deep distrust of the US on the Cuban side. Not only is neither side budging, they aren't even discussing, or daring to suggest that they
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:not forever (Score:5, Funny)
A bit misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
When Castro dies..... (Score:2, Insightful)
- Mutual Defense Pact is unveiled between Venezuela and Cuba, and Castro's successor asks Venezuela for "help."
- Venezuela military moves in under the guise of "protecting" Cuba from invasion from other countries.
- Cuba becomes a satellite province of Venezuela.
Unless the US and other countries have the balls to throw up a naval force and cordon off Cuba so the people of Cuba can handle it for themselves.
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The sooner they pop their clogs the better. Cuba (especially the people of Cuba) don't deserve the treatment they get from the US and the rest of the world is rather mystified why it has taken the US so long to stop being an ass about the issue.
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Re:A bit misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the world has real borders with their enemies, with tanks and missiles and bombers able to cross at any time, and has learned to deal with it. We live in a little bubble protected by two vast oceans and think that anyone saying "boo" from a thousand miles away is a mortal threat.
Our embargo against Cuba is just a pointless grudge that serves one domestic political group and does a disservice to the people of both nations overall.
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Today everything is made in China and nothing is made in the US. Canada and Mexico make a lot of cars for the US, so I wouldn't think getting parts would be a problem for Cuba.
Really, what does the US have that Cuba could possibly want? Wal-Mart? Banks? High risk home mortgage companie
Re:A bit misleading (Score:4, Insightful)
Except that Cuba is not an "enemy" except to Cuban refugees in Florida. They're just a small state that has a government we dislike, but presents no real threat to us now that the Soviet Union is gone. And we certainly do suffer economically from the embargo -- if we didn't, there'd be no need to make a law against trading with them.
It isn't about empathy, it's about having Cubans see us as a prosperous ally they want to get closer to rather than as an adversary they need to set up barriers against. If we had easy tourism and trading with Cuba, it would take about 10 years for it to be one of the most pro-American places on Earth no matter what the government says about us. Money and prosperity have a strange way of bringing people closer.
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You mean unlike before, when when they were trying to stay on it? Or like the way they've finally stopped trying to interfere in US affairs and hurt US industry (through an embargo!) like they did for 50 years? You're sadly mistaken if you think being on the list has anything to do with what Cuba does, other than not whatever we want them to.
Actually, the reason the embargo is being challenged is because US companies have realized they can
This is News How? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet, not too surprisingly, Windows has found its way into Cuba [foxnews.com] and I'm certain the OLPC will also be found there in mass quantities if it is indeed useful/popular. Physical devices may be harder to find there than software but you'll find them there.
This isn't news. The U.S. trade embargos have been in place on Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria for a while now. Furthermore, if the laptops are made and assembled outside the U.S.
So let's get creative here, you make and manufacture the hardware outside the United States. Then you ship them to restricted countries (I think the parts are going to come from China [arstechnica.com] anyway). You leave it up to people inside Cuba or where ever to install the OLPC image. Who has violated the TOS? The citizens of the country who really don't give a damn what U.S. export laws they're breaking.
And if these laws are broken, who's going to enforce them? Redhat/Fedora? The U.S. government is going to show up and stop laptops from going to children? The U.S. government is going to shutdown a free open source software hosting site? I highly doubt it.
Re:This is News How? (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no reason someone can't also distribute the software in another country (like Cuba, Syria, Canuckistan (Canada), Germany, France, wherever ...) The "license" you agree to is not an exclusive license.
The internet has been known to route around damage, you know ...
Re:This is News How? (Score:5, Informative)
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This is a really stupid question but... (Score:2)
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-Rick
Ever? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, like US Law has never ever changed. Remember trade embargoes during apartheid? Castro's ill, it's not clear who will be taking over. New high-level talks have opened with Syria recently also. Not saying that either of these things are likely to change next month, but "never" is pretty long.
Who cares about Redhat? (Score:2, Funny)
This is another triumph of politics... (Score:4, Insightful)
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That the people under their control see we're more successful and prosperous than they are, and begin to wonder why that is and envy our way of life despite whatever propaganda their leadership broadcasts. It worked in the Soviet Union, all of Eastern Europe, and Southeast Asia.
Bombing the world with Hollywood, Levi's, Coca-Cola and Britney Spears has been far more effective at changing enemies into allies than any military operation we've eng
That's a little bit pessamistic (Score:3, Interesting)
In the mean time they could just funnel shipments through a neutral third party. Creative accountants can manage to hide billions from the IRS, why shouldn't they be able to do something socially useful like vanish a couple of shipping containers of laptops.
That'd teach those kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
Middle men? (Score:2)
Sanctions work so well- (Score:2)
I'll give you a hint, lots.
Just because some provision says "no", doesn't make it so
So, why do they need an OLPC? (Score:2)
What is true is that none of these machines will be sold directly to such a country, and therefore will not be as prevalent as other countries, assuming that these machines are going to prevalent anywhere. What it also means is that extraneous thi
0LPC (Score:2)
0 Laptops Per Cubin.
Trivial to work around (Score:3, Interesting)
After years of sanctions ... (Score:3, Funny)
Broader issue that Helms-Burton (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps some other country or countries will be declared official enemies next year. Especially if, say, MS and Intel can persuade a US administration that a mandate for Free Software in, say, Peru or Bolivia, is "contrary to US interests". Or even if such a ban is declared for completely unrelated reasons, the OLPC should not allow itself to be derailed by partisan or sensationalist whims of a USA administration.
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As such, saying that because there's a chemical reaction involved altruism doesn't exist, is like saying that life itself doesn't exist because we can explain all of it's functioning through biology. The explanation of it's function and inn
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There's such a thing as acquired taste. So you could choose to acquire a taste for altruism, even if you don't have a strong innate liking for it.
Or you could choose it as a long term objective decision - many people do things that aren't pleasurable to them, but they get a sense of achievement at the end - even if it's just "Yeeha! Completed my goal".
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Exactly, we get pleasure when we watch someone succeed, so it is in our interests that others succeed. What's so hard to get?
"The fact that we find pleasurable activity in thos
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Sit down, Rambo.
Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I have spent some time in Cuba and have had many interesting conversations regarding the revolution. The funny thing is that many seem to think
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Re:Good. (Score:5, Insightful)
unlike the us government who gives much shit about their people, plunging 400 billions of dollars in a war for the oil industry, refuse to give health insurance to sick americans to cater for private insurance business, wiretap their citizens,
land of the free!
I'd still rather have free beer. (Score:2)
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Re:Good. (Score:4, Informative)
I think GP was reacting to the rather more ridiculous contention that American politicians by and large give more of a crap about the people they govern than politicans in other countries. That the countervailing evidence manifests as health insurance being inaccessible for a huge swath of the working population (when a good portion of the rest of the world has amply demonstrated is not a necessary situation), and the prosecution of an transpatently profiteering war that has killed tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans (which most of the rest of the world considered if not illegal than just plain stupid to get involved in), is simply a reflection of our own neuroses. Other countries screw over their people in different ways, according to different guiding ideologies.
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I'm of the philosophy that proportionality is irrelevant when it comes to existential conditions like suffering. That is to say, roughly, a million people dying early through lack of health insurance is a 'huge swath' whether it is a million amongs three million, or a million amongst three hundred million. And seeing as how it is forty million amongst who-cares-how-large a population, that qualifies in my mind as, to put it mildly, a 'huge swath'.
And, as another poster put it sharply, nobody 'chooses' t
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I get that the US in general has some obsessive hatred of Cuba, but were you to actually go there and meet the people you would come back with the impression only of a society trying to survive under grinding poverty because they cannot trade with a lot of foreign nations due to the embargo, NOT one of wanton cruelty as the Parent is trying to suggest.
Take it from someone who has
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Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97%
male: 97.2%
female: 96.9% (2003 est.) World Factbook - Cuba [yahoo.com]
Re:Good-idiots (Score:2, Insightful)
Sanctions only exist to subjugate the peoples of these countries,increasing the death rates of the young, and lower the quality of life of the citizens. Sanctions, and withholding of technologies of these "rogue states" (read: any states that have the balls to stand up to US economic and social hegemony), only serves to bolster these regimes(many o
Mod parent up. (Score:2)
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You hate the US. Congrats. I'm sure the people in your social circle will acknowledge you and understand that you agree with them. You'll all have mutual camaraderie toward each other and mutual contempt for the "unenlightened".
But beyond groupthink and contempt, what do you have to offer?
I wonder why Cuba and Syria never seem to make some marvelous new technological advances that the US can envy from afar?
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1) Cuba sponsors terrorism directed at the US.
2) The US sponsors terrorism directed at Cuba.
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Excellent point. Without technological infrastructure, things like the DMCA takedown notices, RIAA John Doe suits, Echelon, Carnivore, and CCTV cameras on street corners would all be impossible. Or do you have some other, more narrow, definition of "re