Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PS3 Announced

News for nerds writes "Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 is slated for release mid-November with support for the Sony PS3 first, and support for the former Apple PowerPC product line to follow. Any updates required to support the Apple PowerPC systems following the release for PS3 will be made available via a free download."

PSP Homebrew

[WilyCoder (736280)]

Given Sony's behavior regarding the PSP and using homebrew on it, I am highly skeptical of this PS3 linux project. How can we be sure that Sony will not resort to forcing firmware upgrades on new games? Some of the latest firmware upgrades for PSP do absolutely nothing but thrwat homebrew attempts. Sony has suddenly done a 180 on homebrew? And for its flagship product?

Lest we not forget how crippled the PS2 linux project was (the $700 one)....

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

Sony had its own linux distribution on PS2 (even if they only did a limited run of it), specifically for homebrew, prior to that they had Net Yaroze on the original Playstation. So PSP is actually the system deviating from the norm here. The reason PSP hasn't had one? I don't know. But the constant firmware updates are to patch holes in the main PSP OS, which if left exposed, could offer avenues for piracy. Offering Linux on PS3 does not in and of itself make the PS3's 'Game OS' any less secure - there'll b

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

Sony had its own linux distribution on PS2 (even if they only did a limited run of it), specifically for homebrew

Correct me if I'm wrong but sony never gave away all the information needed to fully utilize the hardware. I won't be excited until I know that will happen this time around. (And STILL won't actually be excited until the systems are available used.)

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

In terms of game development on the hardware, I don't think there were any real restrictions, you just couldn't attach your camcorder or play DVD's.

Actual PS2 games do both. These are both real restrictions. Saying that there's no "real restrictions" when you can't have raw drive access and can't use the i.Link interface is just being a Sony apologist.

I believe that was for piracy concerns - you also couldn't get quality (non-composite) video output when playing a DVD normally on the PS2.

There are

Re:PSP Homebrew

[SQLz (564901)]

Sony is pushing PS3 homebrew development big time. They are building an entire community around Linux PS3 development. This is not normal Sony behavior for sure but, its in their best interest to do so. They are HEAVY Linux in the office ($1 to Microsoft is an investment into Microsoft) and basically, it revolves around the idea that the PS3 is going to be more of a personal computer / home entertainment / gaming box. At E3, Sony exec Izumu Kawabishi said "Because we have plans for having Linux on board the PS3 we also recognise Linux programming activities and we'de like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3". The advantage is that more people will understand the architecture and create cool software for it. Its going to be sweet.

Re:

[badboy_tw2002 (524611)]

They don't really have a choice considering MS is allowing development with full HW access on the Xbox later this year through its XNA program [microsoft.com]. Having homebrew done on their terms means even less legitimacy for such things as mod chips, and control over things like copyright protection. 3rd party homebrew systems won't get much support because, hey, they already give it to you right out of the box. I don't see this as an issue though - this is a good thing, and hopefully both programs will be succesful e

Cell servers?

[otacon (445694)]

Considering IBM is making cell processor blade servers, this release further allows end-users to opprotunity to use that same hardware for production and testing purposes, and at what should be fraction of the price.

Re:

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

Considering IBM is making cell processor blade servers, this release further allows end-users to opprotunity to use that same hardware for production and testing purposes, and at what should be fraction of the price.

Not really. While the processors may be the same, the driver support is likely to be at least somewhat different. For instance, I rather doubt the PS3 comes equipped with IBM's ServerRAID series RAID controllers or with support for fibre channel SAN storage.

seems sketchy

[Aurisor (932566)]

As I remember, Yellow Dog Linux was one of the better linux distros for macs back when they were still on the PowerPC platform. Now that the PowerPC platform is pretty much defunct, I can't help but think that them moving to a:

- Unreleased gaming console
- which has been much-maligned for its excessively high price
- and huge production delays
- on a new processor architecture
- using a WM that's not even out of CVS

seems like biting off more than they can chew, and smacks a bit of desperation.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's possible, and once I get a PS3 (once the prices get down to sane levels) I think it'll be a neat product to play with...but I'm just glad I don't own any stock in terrasoft :)

Re:seems sketchy

[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

Now that the PowerPC platform is pretty much defunct...

You might want to let IBM know about that. It seems that they didn't get the memo.

Re:

[kitzilla (266382)]

... and the tens of million of Mac PPC users who will remain deployed and supported for many years.

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

I think you're going to find that PowerPC is going to go away, leaving only POWER, and embedded PowerPC. Now that apple has gone intel and motorola has stopped making workstations (not that they made that many to begin with) there is basically zero demand for a desktop PowerPC processor outside of IBM. Meanwhile, maintaining an unwanted processor line can only cost IBM money. It makes much more sense, sadly, for them to go with x86-64 than continue to split PowerPC architectures out of POWER ones.

Re:

[Aqws (932918)]

Also send the memo to the guys who designed the X-box 360.

Re:

[Blakey Rat (99501)]

I agree. Part of me says, "well, that kind of makes sense seeing as they want to stay together as a group and keep doing work..." but a bigger part of me says, "why not just make the next release the last release, and concentrate their talents into some other distro?

Or, even better, make a distro that still concentrates on Apple hardware, but Intel hardware instead of PPC hardware?

Either way, moving to PS3 strikes me as a dead-end. It's been a full year and change, and nobody's figured out how to run cust

Re:

[BecomingLumberg (949374)]

Or more directly, why not add the PS3 support into the kernel so that all distros can use it?

Re:

[jmorris42 (1458)]

> Either way, moving to PS3 strikes me as a dead-end. It's been a full year and change, and nobody's figured
> out how to run custom code on Xbox 360 yet... what makes them think PS3 will be any easier.

Well since they are announcing a product I'd say Terrasoft (and Terrasoft has a record of real product releases, i.e they ain't the Phantom Console) actually has PS3 prerelease hardware up mostly running. It would also be a fairly safe assumption that Sony is OK with it because they could shut em down p

Re:seems sketchy

[bWareiWare.co.uk (660144)]

That would be the same PowerPC architecture that the PS3 uses then. The OS runs on the PowerPC derived PPE, the SPE are no use to an OS. All the OS can do is expose them is some useful way to userspace.

Sony are sinking some serious PR money into Terra Soft (the makers of Yellow Dog Linux) to develop some "PS3 based supercomputers":

http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=773 06D92-BC68-4133-B226-23636E116221 [cbronline.com]

- Unreleased gaming console
The CELL was never going to be only for gaming consoles. YDL will be used on several of the biggest supercomputers in the world in a couple of years, not to mention a bucket load of IBM blade servers.

- which has been much-maligned for its excessively high price
No one ever said hi-end computing would be cheap.

- and huge production delays
Yes, but they are backed by Sony, they will already have their shipments earmarked.

- on a new processor architecture
Which is a derivative of the one they are the leading Linux experts on, and is likely to be a very major market in the coming years.

- using a WM that's not even out of CVS
Their core market is servers so this is totally irrelevant. I suppose they just wanted something flashy for the expos. (you don't get more flashy then a WM that can bring a 2Gb dual core gaming rig to its knees running xterm!)

Re:

[the_greywolf (311406)]

- using a WM that's not even out of CVS
Their core market is servers so this is totally irrelevant. I suppose they just wanted something flashy for the expos. (you don't get more flashy then a WM that can bring a 2Gb dual core gaming rig to its knees running xterm!)

Have you used it lately, or are you just being facetious?

E17 uses less than 20MB memory for the entire desktop environment and all the skin flash and bling-bling. (Comare to Gnome, which uses over 100MB alone or KDE which baloons quickly over

Re:

[Chanc_Gorkon (94133)]

PowerPC is NOT defunct. There's plenty of PowerPC servers around. You have IBM's Pseries and a host of other smaller companies. PLUS there's a ton of good PowerPC based Mac's out there that you can still run Linux on. PowerPC is still out there.

Using the joypad?!

[Rik Sweeney (471717)]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but:

Are they mad? How the hell are you going to be able to send an email or write a program using the joypad? That'll take ages! Madness, sheer madness...

Re:Using the joypad?!

[MBCook (132727)]

<sarcasm>Yeah, it's not like the PS3 has USB ports.

Just like the PS2 didn't have USB ports.</sarcasm>

Seriously though, while anyone with a brain would use a USB mouse and keyboard, I'd love to see them make a joypad only interface just for the fun of it. I've got to say this whole thing is interesting, although it certainly doesn't make the $600 price tag any easier to swallow.

Re:

[Manmademan (952354)]

It's already done, actually. If you've used the PSP it allows you to type messages out as one would via cellphone text messaging. Not as fast as using a keyboard, obviously, but light years better than the typical "virtual keyboard" setup. Per the Eurogamer article a couple of days ago that spotlighted the PS3's online service, the PS3 will use something similar in case one does not have/does not want to use a USB keyboard.

Re:

[Rik Sweeney (471717)]

Good God, who the hell modded that up as interesting? Everyone knows that I was joking. You couldn't really expect anyone to use a joypad to write a computer program* You'd use a virtual keyboard.

And a light gun.

*That said, Net Yaroze did

Re:

[xenocide2 (231786)]

Given the asian affinity for DDR, perhaps a Dance Mat input method is in order?

Bluetooth keyboard and mouse!

[IYagami (136831)]

Like the ones provided by apple!

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/ [apple.com]
http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [apple.com]

Re:

[chrismcdirty (677039)]

USB.

Re:

[vertinox (846076)]

Are they mad? How the hell are you going to be able to send an email or write a program using the joypad?

I have a USB keyboard for the PS2. I never used it that much but it currently resides as a keyboard for an old iMac. Its kind of quaint and small form factor. Heck... It even doesn't have any windows keys.

The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far

[RichardMarks (1011125)]

Correct me if any of this is wrong...

I assume the Yellow Dog Linux system will be installed on each harddrive - along with a BluRay system disc for people who need/want to reinstall. I remember someone from Sony saying something along those lines last year.

Full set of PS3 devtools included with each PS3 for homebrew.

The PS3 has full support for USB keyboard and mouse and other standard input devices.

The PS3 will be able to drive a standard monitor at 1080p - 1920 × 1080 rez.

Don't know if there will be two different boot options - or perhaps they will be using some of the OS virtualization stuff Cell supports.

Online gaming will be free - only MMORPGs will be charging.

There will be an online movie/music store.

You will be able to buy/download PS1/PS2 to your PS3 harddrive and play them.

You will be able to buy/download PSP games to your PS3 harddrive and play them on your PSP.

There is stuff where you will be able to stream content wirelessly from your PS3 to your PSP.

1080p games - the list of 1080p native PS3 games seems to keep growing everyday - I think there are about six just for launch and about 10 - 15 I've read about.

1080p BluRay movies

HDMI connector on both versions of the PS3

Full backwards compatibility with PS1 games through software emulation.

Full backwards compatibility with PS2 games through hardware emulation - PS2 chips in every PS3.

You can replace the harddrive with any laptop drive.

Keep hearing about DLNA compliance and people being excited about that - not sure why yet

All that for 499 in the US. Wow.

Also I remember talk of future PS3 versions with more RAM or multiple Cell chips are something Sony is planning. I would die for a dual or quad Cell based system with a couple gigs of RAM running Linux for my desktop.

Re:

[Blakey Rat (99501)]

You've listed all the positives of the hardware, but there are some very big questions remaining:

1) Will Sony allow non-Sony code to run on the console? They don't on the PSP. Why would that policy be different for the PS3?

2) If they want to continue PPC Linux development, and want to use a console, why aren't they using the Xbox 360 which shares almost all of the features above, except has CPUs that are much closer to the CPUs inside Apple computers, and has been out for a full year already?

I think what

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

The only problem is that 256MB is not enough to do much of anything. I mean, you can websurf or read email, but you need minimum 512MB to make a credible desktop system. For $500 I can build a PC which will have better performance on code not explicitly optimized for the cell, and have a half-gig of memory. Ultimately, the primary function of having Linux on the box is that it will make the PS3 a useful media player, and let people do homebrew gaming. For people who only do the web and email things, it will

Re:

[Spruitje (15331)]

The only problem is that 256MB is not enough to do much of anything. I mean, you can websurf or read email, but you need minimum 512MB to make a credible desktop system.


Well, you aren't right.
256 mb is enough to run a lot of apps on it.
Most home servers run perfectly with linux and 128 mb.
So, 256 mb should be enough for most tasks.
Second, there is a rumor that sony will be installing linux on the HD with a lot of development tools so you can build your own games.
Third, with linux on it it will also be possi

Re:

[poot_rootbeer (188613)]

Correct me in turn if any of this is wrong...

Full set of PS3 devtools included with each PS3 for homebrew.

Unlikely. Enabling end-users to do homebrew is anathema to the Sony business plan, Net-Yaroze and PS2 Linux notwithstanding.

The PS3 has full support for USB keyboard and mouse and other standard input devices.

PS3 supports the USB standard. Whether drivers for keyboards and mice will be available is unknown.

You will be able to buy/download PS1/PS2 to your PS3 harddrive and play them.

PS1 possibly, PS2 u

Re:

[RichardMarks (1011125)]

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/16/sony-to-support- homebrew-with-linux-on-ps3/ [joystiq.com]

"according SCE network system development manager Izumi Kawanishi, the console will ship with a built-in Linux OS, complete with compilers and other tools. It would seem that Sony is indeed inviting homebrew enthusiasts to develop basic applications and game content."

Re:

[drinkypoo (153816)]

according SCE network system development manager Izumi Kawanishi, the console will ship with a built-in Linux OS

That doesn't mean that it's going to come with YDL. It may very well mean that the system's OS itself is Linux, and it can boot into Linux from its internal Linux, and let you use YDL. This functionality is not that unusual, for example the Cobalt Raq systems have a Linux kernel in flash as a boot loader, which loads another linux kernel from their internal hard drive when they actually boot u

Possible Uses...

[cfulmer (3166)]

Hmmm... MythTV front-end?

Having a widely-distributed set-top box capable of running Linux could open up all sorts of interesting projects.

Re:

[CastrTroy (595695)]

Isn't mythTV only useful if you have a TV Tuner. Without that, it's just a way to play videos that you get onto the harddrive/network. There's a lot cheaper and easier ways to get a box that will play movies.

Er....

[brunes69 (86786)]

... I already have all of the above with my Xbox and MythTV. And it cost me $400 less.

Only downside is it doesn't have enough juice to play true HD video. But the upscaled DVD is amazing.

Yellow Dog

[From A Far Away Land (930780)]

I can't help but think of Red Hat, and get into the naming frame of mind when I hear that distribution's name. It makes me wonder what other Linux distros we could come up with.

Maybe:
White Boy Linux - it's can't play DDR games very well, but it likes to try.
Green Worm Linux - made just for kids that like to shove gross things into the faces of girls.
Black Velvet Linux - when you positively, absolutely, HAVE TO impress a spouse with the computer.

Re:

[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

Well, considering Yellow Dog was developed as a PowerPC distro based on Red Hat, it all kinda makes sense.

Re:

[AcidLacedPenguiN (835552)]

I'd prefer to keep with the monopolistic naming convention:

purple iron linux
green wheelbarrow linux
orange racecar linux
and finally silver battleship linux.

I may have missed something but I'm sure another /.er will save the day.

Re:

[From A Far Away Land (930780)]

Darn. I guess Eggshell White Boy Linux is still a go though? I bet every PS3 luser would love to have that on their system.

Also, the PS3 supercomputer...

[Otter (3800)]

I've been grumbling [slashdot.org] for days [slashdot.org] about my submisisons on this being overlooked, but Terra Soft isn't just making the OS, they and Sony are building a PS3-based cluster [terrasoftsolutions.com].

You may now return to your regularly scheduled news about Jack Thompson and SCO.

And how will Sony react?

[tlhIngan (30335)]

If YDL is free for the PS3, then don't you think Sony might... object?

After all, Sony's probably heavily subsidizing the PS3, hoping to recoup them by game sales. And of course, you don't have to buy games on the PS3 for YDL...

One of the main reasons the Sony PS2-Linux kit was $250 was basically to cover the PS2 subsidy (so Sony would make up the difference in hardware cost vs. sales price in selling the Linux kit).

PS3 as a GP computer?

[IntergalacticWalrus (720648)]

Okay, console-wise the PS3 is overpriced crap, but if you think of the PS3 as a general-purpose Linux-based Cell computer, suddenly 599 USD seems like a pretty sweet deal, considering all the cool hardware you get with it.

Linux on the PS2 sucked because the PS2 was not well suited as a general-purpose computer (slow CPU even at the time, insufficient amount of RAM, shitty video output capabilities), and the kit was overexpensive because they had to include an hard disk with it (that couldn't be simultaneous

Re:

[RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424)]

Over priced? not likely. It's the same price as an xbox360 + HDDVD Unit.

Re:

[Rude Turnip (49495)]

Unless you're paying for packaging, documentation, support, etc.

Re:hmmm

[MobileTatsu-NJG (946591)]

"what's a linux?"

A very powerful form of birth control.

Funny, but...

[hummassa (157160)]

my two kids + the fact that I'm a user of Linux for the former 13 years ==> linux is not a really effective form of birth control.
Now, living in mom's basement and not bathing regularly everyday would be.

Re:

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

Now, living in mom's basement and not bathing regularly everyday would be.

I think I read somewhere that Linux causes that, too...

The hidden truth is that there's a large segment of *BSD, Mac OS X and Windows users so afflicted; the best we can seem to infer is that the disease is actually platform independent.

Re:

[AcidLacedPenguiN (835552)]

Yes, unfortunately all but 3 of those units are going on ebay on Launch Day plus one.