The Red Hat Diaries

slaker writes "Salon.com has a review of Bob Young's new book "Under the Radar", as well as some commentary on the spectacle of developers versus business-types." Several interesting comments on the article. Hafta add the book to my TODO queue (course since its behind Snow Crash and The Diamond Age it might be awhile, what with my hours and hours of freetime)

Time...

[larien]

...with my hours and hours of free time

But time doesn't exist! [slashdot.org]
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nice if the links worked...

[Mr. Penguin]

It sure would be nice if these links worked. Salon.com is found here [salon.com].
Brad Johnson
Advisory Editor

Huh.

[rde]

"There's a clear advantage to being first to market"
Yeah. And as Gnome 1.0 users found out, there's a clear disadvantage in rushing products out.

Re:Big Ego or Delusions of Grandeur

[Tet]

In my eyes, he's just another greedy "Internet" millionaire making money on other people's work.

As it happens, I don't think there's any of my code in Red Hat. But if there was, I would be happy that Bob Young and the rest of Red Hat became millionaires on the back of it. Unlike many of us, they actually got off their backsides and collected large quantities of the available free software, and put it together into a handy distribution. I guess you probably weren't around in the early days, when we used to have to download, compile and install everything ourselves. Why shouldn't they make money from saving us time and effort by collating stuff onto an easy-to-use CD? If your idea of free software is preventing people from making money from it, then your view is different to mine. Remember: free speech, not free beer.

Offtopic: Rob: get some free time ;)

[Floris]

..what with my hours and hours of free time.

Rob, you really _should_ go and have some time off, read stuff, have a vacation or whatever .. I mean, I'm sure Slashdot won't decay into dust ithout you within a few weeks if you do, and xperience tells me a little "mind refreshing" can be very helpful.

Unless, of course, you love this thing so much you can't be dragged away from it by three turbocharged ferrari's ... but even then a break could be welcome.

but then again.. Maybe a contact-lense sized VR set would do the trick.. ;)

Just voicing a little concern here ;)

F
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Well written

[scumdamn]

Not a bad article. When companies like ZD* are writing hatchet jobs on anything and everything Linux, Salon is writing thoughtful pieces on the political and social aspects of Linux. Unlike ZD* articles, I will actually click a link that leads to a Salon Linux article, or any other interesting sounding Salon article.
Salon Gets It(R). Not too many do.

Re: The Clueless

[mjjareo]

I didn't say he was evil, just greedy. And delusional, if the title and excerpts of his book (or should I say, advertisemnt) are indicative of the entire contents.

And as for the other things, my point was that he wasn't doing anything revolutionary, contrary to what his self promoting book states. Unless you think that downloading sotware, writing some install shells, and mass producing CDs is ground breaking.

Great Book! Way to go Red Hat!!!

[justin_cheung]

I was at Bookshop Santa Cruz yesterday and I cruised on by the computer books section and what do I see? Bob Young's book!! I immediately picked it up and scanned through it... and I have to say it's absolutely amazing and well-written. So I take Bob Young's book, "Under the Radar" to the techie book section and pick up the o'reilly "web security & commerce" book, only because it's written by the same guys that did the yellow spined book, my favorite o'reilly book "practical UNIX and internet security"... yellowbook rules... maybe IDG wll let me write a Practical Linux and Internet Security book... hmm :) The best thing? When I went to the checkout at Bookshop SC, I found that the hardcover Bob Young book was cheaper than the softcover "Web Security..." book... dangit, if O'Reilly books weren't so darn expensive... maybe it's that or maybe what I call "the Red Hat story" is a great deal!!!... Take it easy folks... I gotta go to class! Ciao, Justin "no-K-in-my-name" Cheung ([e-mail]) Open Source Dev and Support Guy for Penguin Computing, San Francisco CA http://www.penguincomputing.com "when downtime is not an option" Founder and Vice-Penguin, Gnuidea Software: "Well-paid developers, Fabulous Free Software"

Re:salon linux strategy

[Andrew Leonard]

I won't deny that we pay attention to circulation figures, but that's not the only reason we cover free software so closely. It's a rare case of instance when a story that we think, editorially, is really important,-- socially, politically, economically -- also turns out to be very popular with readers. So we're running with it. I'm pretty much following this beat exclusively.

And while the slashdot effect is indeed impressive, over time the percentage of readers for a particular free software story that have been referred directly from Slashdot has been declining, which leads me to believe that some people are now checking us independently to see what we have to say.

Big Ego or Delusions of Grandeur

[mjjareo]

"Little did he know that the seeds were being planted for him and his future company to revolutionize the computer industry and electronic communications for businesses and consumers worldwide."

Bob Young sure thinks alot of himself. I hope that this was said by the "omniscient third person". Personally, I don't see how he's revolutionizing anything. In my eyes, he's just another greedy "Internet" millionaire making money on other people's work.

I thought Slashdot checked links ...

[WillAffleck]

Isn't that why all my news items get rejected?

Seriously, though, even though I have a few hundred shares of Salon.com and all my friends love it, I have to question the value of the book itself. Just because something is hot (Linux), doesn't mean a book about key players will be a good read.

This trend towards ghostwritten and/or poorly written books must be stopped. I sometimes wonder if the serialization on the web, where many people post with obvious grammatical and spelling errors, has some impact on the quality of certain books.

Just like the serialization of Sherlock Holmes in a pulp paper of the time was highly correlated ... oh, wait, those were actually good ... never mind.

An appropriate review

[ed_the_unready]

I'm a few pages short of finishing "Under the Radar" and was considering submitting a Slashdot book review, but Mr. Leonard has already said it all. The book was painfully unfocused and managed to say very little to anyone who has even heard of Linux by now. Ah well, at least the title page says that the royalties are going to the FSF.

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Re:salon linux strategy

[jflynn]

Well, I appreciated the article. I was thinking of buying the book, but now I'll wait until I see differing reviews, get bored, or want to make a contribution to the FSF.

As long as the articles on Salon remain critical of Linux and open source, where deserved, I don't see a problem with realizing there is a lot of interest in the subject and capitalizing on it.
Everyone benefits - thats what business is supposed to do.

Your stories, and others' about open source and Linux on Salon have been nearly always been well worth reading, something still pretty rare. Enough so that I do check Salon independently once a day or so, just to know what will be on Slashdot later ;)

Thanks.

Re:salon linux strategy

[Asim]

I respectfully disagree. For one, you get a good overview of a book that, quite frankly, I've heard much about, seen ads for, but haven't the foggiest about what's inside. This is the first review I've seen. And more importantly, it's not a "Rah-Rah" review, nor is it dismissive. Based upon the other information discussed in the review (of which, more later), and the tone of the article in general, it's well worth a once-over, at the least.

But it's not just a piece of the book. He's using it as a jumping-off point to discuss the Red Hat relationship with Linux, and Linux in General. No, it's not new, but it's a fresh approach. In it's timleyness, the reviewer/reporter is able to bring in recent developments with Debian, VA Linux, and Turbo Linux, and shows how their actions may affect Red Hat. Important stuff, for Salon's non-techie audience. After all, someone out there cares about making money with Linux, and who is and isn't this minute?

In this world of "me-too!" articles and bland press releases that we find outselves swamped with, not to forget FUD, it's good to see old-fashioned reporting sometimes about this new-fangled stuff. :)

salon linux strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing to be learned or gained from reading this article. I think that every week, Salon tries to do one article on linux (usually the articles are pretty good). I'm sure the guys at salon have found that if they get thier pages /.'ed, their ad banner revenues increase.

Re:"Under The Radar" looks like toilet paper

[Ben Hutchings]

I heard Bob Young speak at a meeting of LXNY (the New York Linux user group he's a member of) about a month ago. (And then went for dinner with him and others.) He answered a lot of questions during the meeting. He said then that the book wouldn't be worth buying for most Linux users, and we (the attendees) shouldn't bother with it.

Let the hackers do the hacking....

[SuperG]

What appealed to me in the review was the fact that the author explicitly mentions that what is occurring in Linux land at a business level is still allowing the ideals of the free software movement to continue : business types may be able to set up an infrastructure to allow easy mainstream access to Linux, while making a buck; but the hackers can continue to expand and improve the code base at the foundation of it all.

As long as this continues to happen, the success of organisations like Red Hat, TurboLinux or whomever can only be a good thing, not only for the organisations themselves, but for everyone.

Except maybe Microsoft.

Re:An appropriate review

[slouie]

Submit the review. It's good for people to get a few opinions on a book that tries to capture the "essence" of THE business model based off of Linux. More techie people will react to a direct review of the book on /. than elsewhear.

The Salon review makes me leery of buying the book (as does the "insta-biography/tabloid" feel of the title), but I'll probably scan it at the store. It's a good critical article about the book and Red Hat's juxaposition with the current marketplace and industry. Lots of questions, damn few solid answers. Fun! Fun! Fun!


-S. Louie

the measure of success...

[BLiP2]

Reading all the commentary about Linux, everybody seems to be asking the same general question:

Can Linux really be successful if everything's free? How do you have a profitable bussiness model when you give your product away?

I would just like to ask this:

When did the measure of success become how much money one can squeeze out of something?!?! Wasn't Linux supposed to be different? What happened to the idea of doing something just to do something new and cool, and if you happened to get rich off it, thats great. Not the other way around. I hate to say it, but RH sold its soul starting at $14/share.

The question we should be asking is, "Who let these damn greedy bussiness suits in?"

I don't know how many people read the acticle in TIME several weeks ago, entitled "Silicon Valley: The Second Wave" but it really showed what the valley has become. No long a place where innovation drives people, but instead greed. Where the philospohy is "If you happaned to innovate while making money, that's great, a gold star for you."

Re:I thought Slashdot checked links ...

[dkh2]

Just like the serialization of Sherlock Holmes in a pulp paper of the time was highly correlated ...

Actually, serialization in The Strand magazine is how the Holmes stories were published originally. They weren't published in hardbound editions until after they became popular among Strand readers.

As for ghostwriters, it depends on who your ghost is whether you end up with trash or not. I have Kurt Vonnegut ghosting my personal memoirs right now.

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Re:An appropriate review

[phred]

I've been trying to get a copy of this for a week but it's not in stock either at Borders or Powell's. Based on aleonard's review and other comments, I'm afraid it's just another bad writing job by Wendy Goldman Rohm, whose book The Microsoft File was probably the worst-written I've managed to stagger through in the last couple of years. The reason I staggered through it is that she is not enveloped in Microsoft Fog, so there were some pretty good stories and points of view on Microsoft's business practices. But the writing style? Urgh...

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Re: The Clueless

[Arandir]

Why does this come up everytime mention is made of sometime making money off of Free Software? The only software Bob Young is making money on is that software whose authors gave him explicit permission to do so. If you look at the GPL, LGPL, Artistic License, BSD License, QPL, etc., they all give Bob Young permission to put the software into his distribution, sell the distribution, sell support for the software, and many other commercial rights.

Now, you have every right to believe that money is evil, and that Bob Young is exploiting the working class. You also have the right to be wrong.

I've said this before, but apparently you weren't listening: "If you don't want Bob Young making money off of your software, why the fsck did you make it Free?!?"