

Red Hat Unveils Linux E-Commerce Server 115
Wonko42 writes "The subject pretty much says it all; Red Hat is now selling its new E-Commerce server for $149.99. The server is packaged with several other programs, including the Netscape Roaming Module, Squid proxy, and Webalyzer web server log analyzer. And of course, it's built to run on Red Hat 6.0. "
Re:Here's what's missing: (Score:1)
How long is a piece of string? Defining easy to use is harder than defining pornography.
-Graphical database tools
-Simple, graphical server/e-store configuration tools
I don't particularly want these, but I see their inclusion in the grand scheme of things. I don't personally trust what I can't script.
-Web authoring tools
vi, Xemacs, The GIMP, xv, ee...
Re:Apache does Roaming Netscape Prefs (Score:1)
Re: MS Siteserver (was: Why buy this?) (Score:1)
I am not a M$ Salesmen I just use tools that work in the enviroments I am forced to work in.
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
That should put a dent into M$ e-business plans!
Re:Why? Support (Score:1)
If people WANT to pay for something they can get for free elsewhere....LET THEM. It'll let Bob Young and RH get richer, and in turn they help out the rest of the community. We all benefit.
Sheesh. The end.
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
That should put a dent into M$ e-business plans!
Thanks for -rpm ing our other net admin box (Score:1)
oh well enough whining.... at least RH is firing up to help us all out before they get gobbled up by the big ugly dogs.
mySQL Licensing. (Score:2)
If I were them, I'd cut a deal, because this product is bound to sell. Yes, it's an agglomoration of things you could get for free -- but if you've bought a Linux distribution, you've already bought a similar product.
D
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Re:SLASHDOT IS RED HAT'S BITCH!!!! (Score:1)
Re:RED HAT SUX!! (Score:2)
One of the most common real-world consulting assignments is to take existing tools and put them together to make a system work. Whether they are free or not matters little - in fact, you can charge a higher fee if your client doesn't have to pay $ 5,000 for the basic system.
Remember, most software is written as a VAR/consultant for clients, not as packaged stuff.
D
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Re:WebAnalyzer? (Score:1)
I have to comment on this. (Score:1)
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
Wow, you think I'm Bill Gates? Nope, I'm proud to say I now do all my work in Linux.
Have you ever even administered a system? Do you know the joy of installing a new program or changing network setings without having a reboot? NOT WITH WINDOWS!
In my humble way, I have known such joys. And you're right, not with windows.
>I need a better catchphrase paraphrase
Yes you do.
Oh beaked and inebriated one, in the spirit of Open Source, I beseech thee, this wert a call for a little tweaking, not an invitation to a brusque reply!
>I don't think RH's little "solution" here will >make any kind of significant dent in a market MS >has yet turned its eye to.
And couple of years ago people were saying, "I don't think the linux os will make any kind of significant dent in the market"
Look, my point is pretty much the same as what others -- no less pro-Linux than me, and often more so -- have been saying here: this is a *low-end* package. That's fine; I don't think MS has set its sights on that market, so it may well do some brisk business. But it's not gonna bring down MS all by itself. This is a long and involved process, and at best this is a teeny tiny part of that process. Certainly not worth apocalyptic rhetoric.
Wow, arthurs_sidekick, you are very insightful...NOT.
Continue to ignore the facts, it will be yours and M$ downfall!
... and so the drunken penguin continues the rampage. But let's not make assumptions, 'cos you know what they do to U ... and, well, not me, just U in this case.
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
Amen.
I've found a replacement for everything I use under Windows that does what I need under Linux, save for the Money "Small Business" edition.
I'm no accountant and don't much feel like using any of the professional accounting solutions available for Linux (and there are some quite robust ones out there), and none of the GnuCash/MoneyDance/etc. programs do what MS Money does for me. At least not yet -- I have high hopes. I also considered a home-grown spreadsheet-based system, but I'd rather spend my development energy on Mason (http://www.masonhq.com/) projects.
It is a bit irksome, but I'll live with it. I wasn't doing anything fun on the old Windows box anyway.
YMMV.
ObOnTopic: So how is this different from the secure server package RH was selling previously?
Re:Here's what's missing: (Score:1)
Inventory and accounting interfaces?
Does ayone have any information about Redhat (Score:1)
Linuxdom don't cover much of the PC land (Score:1)
Re:what a rip!! (Score:1)
Alliance competition? (Score:1)
types are going to trust their e-commerces to RedHat. They are strictly in the low end market maybe this is good for mom & pop e-commerces sites, but it seems like a bit waste of time and money.
Course I read this article after say that Linux is not a e-commerces solution
So who is responsible when w4r3z kiddies hack it? (Score:1)
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
"Redhat IS the next Microsoft!"
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
Re: Best platform?? Why buy this? (Score:1)
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
give it away. You all will never learn.
Mr. MS
American thought (Score:1)
So maybe this has something to do with that. Maybe, to be taken seriously, they have to price things way out there. Just a guess. Of course, I'm sure they don't mind the extra money.
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
Software may be proprietary, but standards do exist that allow for the movement of your data from one system to another. So long as I never lose access to that, I stand by my point.
Re:Brilliant (Score:1)
Re:E-Commerce on 6.0? (Score:1)
yay readhat! (Score:1)
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
Just watch how we do it, we make it look easy!
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
just that a drunken fool. Do not hesitate and put he in his place, that is in fact what
MS does each and everyday to Linux.
the big question: (Score:1)
Good for them. (Score:2)
Why buy this? (Score:2)
Why?! (Score:1)
I've been to the linked site and read around a bit - it seems full of nothing but marketroid-drivel., but then again I think e-commerce == hype + forms + hype + ssl + hype + CGI, so what do I know?
What about RedHat's "package" is worth the remaining $100 ?
~Tim
--
Re:minivend is cool - Not from what I've Seen (Score:1)
To try and find a game that has good seats available is a real chore - you have to give all of your vital information, including CC#, before you get to see what seats there are.
And if you don't like them you get to start all over since "using the back button on your browser will cause errors".
As I said, I'm not impressed.
Generic red hat response (Score:1)
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
So while you seem to get the code I'm not sure its GPL or open source. At least part of it is proprietary, but maybe they will make it GPL and add the charge for the RSA part. Like leave the code incomplete you need something to do the encryption. Err something.
I really have no idea and am just blathering.
Apache does Roaming Netscape Prefs (Score:1)
Check out:
http://www.klomp.org/mod_roaming/
It works great, and does the job... for free!
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
btw, it is not 'free' as in 'free speech' as some would have it. It is more like 'free' as in 'non-proprietary'. Me, in my experience, most ppl are into it because it is actually 'free' as in 'free beer'.
-- Reverend Vryl
Re:the big question: (Score:2)
No, no, you've got this Slashdot posting thing all wrong: the first question is always
Brilliant (Score:1)
$149 for a bunch of free code, and TRIAL VERSIONS of e-commerce software. What a bargain.
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
Re:Brilliant (Score:1)
Normally I would think that Webalyzer must be some kind of expensive logging software or something... No, in fact it isn't even that wonderful. It does its job but it is free.
I don't get it, lets rake em over the coals now while the Linux hype is up and forget about later...
Re:Why buy this? (Score:1)
Is it really secure by default?
http://ntbugtraq.ntadvice.com/default.asp?sid=1
Also, by the time you have 'complete interactivity with the corporate data' with Site Server, you are half way to a custom solution. Site Server just seems like a pretty low-end product, or at best a bunch of example code for MTS programming.
Re:So who is responsible when w4r3z kiddies hack i (Score:1)
If worrying about timely responses to security problems is your main concern, then RedHat probably wouldn't disappoint you.
Re:MODERATORS ARE RED HAT'S BITCHES!!! (Score:1)
and must you insult everyone?
HuRd == vapor (Score:1)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:what a rip!! (Score:1)
Re:E-Commerce on 6.0? (Score:1)
Actually, just toss out GNOME and use KDE and you will be perfectly stable.
If I didn't have to install a new UPS the otherd day, I could could shown you my RH6 uptime, still from about two weeks after I upgraded to it.
Re:Brilliant (Score:1)
USA and Canada only, as usual. (Score:1)
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
So that is what the esteemed Mr. Torvalds had in mind when he thought up the penguin as a logo. A few beers in 'im and he's all, like "I'm indestructible!" and full of pith and vinegar.
Don't count your uptime until it's happened ... damn I need a better catchphrase paraphrase. But I don't think RH's little "solution" here will make any kind of significant dent in a market MS has yet turned its eye to.
However, just wait til next year!
Re: e-commerce (Score:1)
>and full of pith and vinegar.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
>Don't count your uptime until it's happened
I will put linux uptime againt your M$ uptime anyday! Have you ever even administered a system? Do you know the joy of installing a new program or changing network setings without having a reboot? NOT WITH WINDOWS!
>I need a better catchphrase paraphrase
Yes you do.
>I don't think RH's little "solution" here will >make any kind of significant dent in a market MS >has yet turned its eye to.
And couple of years ago people were saying, "I don't think the linux os will make any kind of significant dent in the market"
Wow, arthurs_sidekick, you are very insightful...NOT.
Continue to ignore the facts, it will be yours and M$ downfall!
- TDP
Re:Why?! (Score:1)
However, all 3 are only a matter of installing packages. You grab squid*.rpm and you're away, or you select mod_perl in dselect (Debian, of course) and apache reconfigures & restarts itself.
This much is definitely easy; what I will grant folks is that there's more backend processing and order tracking, and maybe the RSA license will cost a bit.
Oh well...
~Tim
--
Re:Alliance competition? (Score:1)
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
-awc
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
There is nothing out there that has all the functionality of MS Money 99, that also runs on Linux.
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
It means that the various components weren't designed with eachother in mind. There's no single configuration point.
A truly integrated solution would tie all these things in together, while still allowing you to scrap componants in favor of third party add-ons.
This is only a test (Score:1)
"Good Size" is key phrase. (Score:2)
They are targetting the "home user with ADSL that wants to sell a few things online". Anyone a little bigger would use some web-hosting/co-location setup. Anyone bigger than that would spend the $$$ to plan for the future.
Hmmm... I guess they could also be targetting the "new developer wants to learn about E-commerce" people too.
Re:Why?! (Score:3)
Disclaimer: My employer is in the e-commerce backend business. While we run Red Hat on our site, we are in no other business relationships with Red Hat. None of our products/services are currently in Red Hat's E-Commerce kit.
How about:
hype + forms + hype + ssl + hype + CGI + hype + credit card processing + hype + tracking orders?
People sell these great "e-commerce" solutions that set up a beautiful storefront. They forget about accepting payment.
There's a lot of e-marketing software out there. Tease your eye, get you to buy. The rest of e-commerce is how to get your money, how to get the customer their product, how to track complaints...all the non-sexy stuff.
The packages that the RH kit ships with at least claim to work the backend, from payment processing and credit card authorization to order databases. As to how well the packages actually work, I have no personal experience.
As to whether it's worth the extra C-note, it's the same RH gambit: save you the trouble of getting it off the FTP site, likely bundled in with some installation support. When "trouble" can be measured in engineer-hours, that $149 is chicken feed.
Re:Why? Support (Score:1)
Question is, then, what can we do about it?
~Tim
--
Re:the big question: (Score:1)
Kewl, can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these???
Re:RED HAT SUX!! (Score:1)
Re:Why?! (Score:1)
+ CGI, so what do I know?
Well,
a) Red Hat provides technical support.
b) To use RSA (required for SSL) for
commercial usage you need to license it from
RSA Data Security Inc. [rsa.com] - which is worth $100.
c) It's one package, making it easy for something who wants to use existing tools to setup their own e-store. Time is money, so by including all these products and demos together in one place it can save a lot of time. There is no need to spend time looking at lame solutions or NT-only solutions.
d) Most real e-commerce solutions include credit card processing software or micro-payments, something you can't "roll-you-own" and expect your local bank to let you interface with them.
e) Some people have mentioned Stronghold [c2.net] as if it was free, it's not free for commercial usage! Again, due to the RSA patent issue (b).
f) No one said you had to buy it.
Re:what a rip!! (Score:1)
Spyky
Re:the big question: (Score:2)
Question isn't entirely appropriate. The product isn't an integrated solution, rather a bundle of some open source/GPL'ed tools with the usual Red Hat offering of "TryWare" commercial stuff.
I wasn't going to ask anyone for input for a while, but I've started working on an open source Site System to try and tie in some of the things websites (both small and enterprise) need today, like user membership/personalization, indexing, logfile analysis, knowledge management etc.
I'm working on user stuff right now using PHP and Apache. If anyone is interested in something like this please contact me [mailto]!
Re:Brilliant (Score:1)
Re:Why buy this? (Score:1)
Re:RED HAT SUX!! (Score:1)
Re:Why?! (Score:2)
commercial usage you need to license it from
RSA Data Security Inc. - which is worth $100.
I talked to RSA about a licence. The price starts about $50,000.00 and goes up from there. What you are buying is the RSA LICENCE (and support).
Christopher McCrory
Lead Bithead, Netus Inc.
chrismcc@netus.com
admin@netus.com
"Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware"
Re:Why?! (Score:2)
Have you ever deployed squid? Have you ever deployed SSL+mod_perl? It's not rocket science, but it takes more than just installing some packages. For people who can't or don't want to employ a hacker for that integration, they can buy a package like this one.
There will always be a need for integrating existing softwares in new ways and it takes a certain amount of skill. Therefore, there will always be a market for "integrated" packages which fill a trendy niche. They're selling convenience - just like ready-made cookie dough. (mmmm...)
Re:Brilliant (Score:1)
It is sad.. (Score:1)
Re:the big question: (Score:2)
Open source is nice. Fully funtional is better.
Re:Why buy this? (Score:1)
Re:SLASHDOT IS RED HAT'S BITCH!!!! (Score:1)
adam
Here's what's missing: (Score:2)
-Easy to use database
-Graphical database tools
-Simple, graphical server/e-store configuration tools
-Web authoring tools
They can't sell a package that centers on MySQL, because that would incur their weird licensing costs (Although they can include it as an option), but maybe a PostgreSQL/MySQL option would be allright. KMySQL is a great, free database frontend that has plugins to work with other DBs (no Postgres yet, though) and could be great if RH would invest in it a little.
Templates are easy and/or freely available.
Hmm... what does that leave undone? Easy tools for building e-commerce apps. Something easier than, say, Zope or another real app server. People just want a "Yahoo Store" or the like.
--JZ
MiniVend (Score:2)
Re: MS Siteserver (was: Why buy this?) (Score:3)
Luckily, this is not true. After running Siteserver on a fast-growing e-commerce site for a year, we finally broke down and ripped it out and put a custom solution in its place. Siteserver compatibility generally means only that the product uses the default db table names that Siteserver creates. This can be configured or the tables can be emulated. However, Siteserver itself is little more than a bunch of poorly written Visual Basic Script scripts and some extremely inefficient objects (out-of-the-box, anyway) for storing and manipulating the shopping cart data, bundled with some site analysis tools that we didn't even use. The overhead and inefficiency of the product outweighed any benefits we got, so much that even management suggested we get rid of it.
My advice is, though, don't even start using it, because it _is_ very easy to get stuck with it when you start buying 3rd party software that runs with it, etc. The lock-in effect is harsh. But, as I was saying, luckily nearly 100% of the big-name e-commerce players offer a (usually better and more mature) UNIX version of their software in addition to a Siteserver version. This includes the credit card processors (Cybercash, Clear Commerce), etc. Note that Siteserver does not come with credit card processing software.
This has been my experience. There is no way that RedHat's package could be worse.
bob