Debian Logo Continues 80
weink writes
"Debian is in the process of getting their logo in order.
The vote will take place in about a week. After the logo
contest at GIMP, here are
the options. "
I am so happy that I have my Debian box running again. apt is
so good for lazy sysadmins. Oh, and I vote for Raul's design.
Super smooth.
No a cat hasn't got my tongue.. (Score:1)
I actually don't mind the red penguin logo now that I've finally got used to it. Another thing to consider is that if we want anyone to remember the logo, we'll have to stop choosing a new one every 6 months or so!
Neet (Score:1)
Let's just hope Bill Gates' Corbis [corbis.com] doesn't patent spirally things in logos. :-)
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
That's one other thing I forgot to mention about Debian: lack of documentation. Not for the software (there's lots in /usr/doc), but for the newbie, it's a little confusing. The install manual is pretty bare-bones. And to be fair, it looks like the Debian Website [debian.org] is getting some docs together (though most are in the early stages of development).
Oh, and one other thing: kernel-package [debian.org] is pretty neat. It lets you compile kernel source, make a kernel image package and install it all with just a few commands. It even updates LILO for you. This way you can keep up with new kernels while still maintaining a sane package environment. And with multiple image packages, switch back and forth is a breeze.
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
(I won't plug my own book because it's not being published yet, but when it gets to that point I'll be sure to bug everyone about looking for/at it. It is kinda focused on the new user but it should be cool for all users to read..)
Rob's Logo!! Rob's Logo!! (Score:1)
The question remains however....would it look ok in b/w or 8bit? Maybe I'll mess with it a bit.
(funny. I don't even use Debian. But I do appreciate good graphics & logo designs.)
I'm sorry but... (Score:1)
I'm a bit disappointed to see five choices. That's a shame, considering many of the two hundred or so entered were great.
I admit, I contributed a few myself... where did they go? First of all, the requirement to make the logo with GIMP limits it quite a bit. Vector is the only way to create a logo, period. How well does a bitmap scale? Are we really going to just make an icon and call it the logo for everything that Debian stands for?
Under these circumstances, lots of people made great logos, and I don't see any of those on the list of five. That's a big shame. I had a feeling this would happen. How can you choose between those?
I was anticipating seeing a better logo for debian, but I agree that we're wasting our time with this skimpy selection and poor criteria. I think this should be re-evaluated.
I think this vote should be put off, for now. I completely agree with alpha's points.
-raymond
Raul, yes! (Score:1)
It has to be Raul, nah. It realy is super-cool (to be honest it's the coolest logo I've yet seen in the Linux-world (sorry everybody else
A pole would be oke, I think, so we know ahead who'll win
I second Rob's opinion (Score:1)
jeanette makes the best t-shirts...IMHO (Score:1)
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
apt is the Debian package management tool. It understands dependencies and downloads:
apt-get install foobar
will upgrade your system to the latest version of package foobar, including any libraries, etc it needs. Run from cron, and never worry about security updates again. More info at Debian [debian.org].
As to why it's generating a buzz -- I don't really know. I switched from Red Hat to Debian, and it just seems to hang together nicer. Remember the libjeg debacle on Red Hat (5.0?)? That sort of thing doesn't seem to happen with Debian. Other things are nice too: when an X program is installed it installs a menu file. Each window manager comes with a program that takes all the menu files and builds a menu tree: switch window managers and keep your menu items without having to learn Yet Another Window Manager Configuration Format. There are a hell of a lot of packages as well, clearly separated into free and non-free, which is a bonus. No way I'm going back.
--
W.A.S.T.E.
Debian == bug? (Score:1)
--
W.A.S.T.E.
Or Sega Linux? (Score:1)
I heard Sega were already having to make the spiral blue, not orange, in Europe, to avoid similarity to some European company's logo.
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Hmmm (Score:1)
Daniel
Debian isn't just Linux, though... (Score:1)
Daniel
Oooohhh. Penguins, penguins! (Score:1)
That's actually the current logo that they're trying to replace!
I always kinda liked it, too, but they're trying to not be Linux-specific. And there's no liberal-use logo for it.
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
and why do I want it? Debian is generating
tremendous buzz recently, and I am wondering why...
Hmmm (Score:1)
No, I'm with you on this one too. The only one that is even passable is Raul's. The rest are just bad.
No, I got that too (Score:1)
New Logo, lets get it right this time (Score:1)
Whatever logo is picked, I would like it to have a clean, distinguished look, much like what Raul has done.
Debenhams Linux? (Score:1)
I think they should wait (Score:1)
Oooohhh. Penguins, penguins! (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:1)
The current logo is quite nice, its only drawback as I understand it is that its a penguin logo. Debian now has a Hurd distribution so they wanted to get away from being all penguins.
I submitted several logos but the authoritarian figure at gimp.org running the contest threw mine out without even notifying me. It didn't fit a narrow interpretation of his rules, so out it went without so much as a thank-you-try-again.
Anyway, all these logos suck except for the current one. I may not be a graphic designer, but I know a good logo when I see one. I guess this goes to show you that good developers don't necessarily have to have skills in the graphic arts :^)
I like the penguin (Score:1)
Well, *that's* funny ... (Score:1)
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
apt-get update
If you don't want new packages (that would be default on for a new install) added, you can use 'upgrade' instead of 'dist-upgrade' above.apt-get dist-upgrade
It automatically downloads all the
--
Where is the vote? (Score:1)
--
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
:)
Which one is the best? (Score:1)
IMHO I believe it is because Debian is now no longer just a Linux distribution, it is porting the Debian system to GNU/Hurd. Secondly they were hoping for a better looking logo which would do well on their webpages, and in printed medium, at true-color, 8-bit, and grey-scale. Also a new logo would be released under a new Logo license (don't know what the license says though
So the Logo team picked 5 choices from the those submitted to the gimp contest. And the best way to choose is to analyze all and see which one best fits Debian's needs.
Q: Overall impression.
Option 1 (jeanette):
What does an ant have to do with Debian? Maybe the idea of a community working together for the common good of the community as a whole.
Option 2 (raul):
Now I am confused. What's the spiral have to do with anything? And what's with that genie bottle. Maybe this. By opening up the Debian Genie bottle, your going to be able to make your dreams come true by using Debian. (I know that was lame, I couldn't think of any other reason.)
Option 3 (villate):
It's "debian's seal of approval." Hahaha. I didn't find it that funny.
Option 4 (guatamnlad):
The big D. You can definately see the D for debian and the L for linux. And in the offical there is the shadow of a gnu. Nice and simple
Option 5 (Captain blue-eys):
The old logo, nice and simple.
Q: What's wrong with them?
Option 1:
Ant doesn't have much to do with Debian.
Option 2:
The spiral hasn't got much to do with Debian. Looks a lot like other company logos.
Option 3:
The spiral doesn't have much to do with Debian. The logo shouldn't look very good at 8-bit or grey scale.
Option 4:
The logo won't look good at 8-bit or grey scale. Will we be able to see the D and the L. Will we be able to see the GNU is the background? Limits its use with GNU/Hurd.
Option 5:
He's just old. We needs to be retired. No Hurd support.
Q: What's right with them.
Option 1:
Not many colors, so it will look good with any number of colors. Very original.
Option 2:
Simple, will look good at any number of colors. I find it just interesting.
Option 3:
Looks really nice on a web page. The Seal holding up the earth was a cute idea. (Linux holding up the world.)
Option 4:
Nice and simple. Looks great on a web page.
Option 5:
It worked so far, why do we need to change?
Q: What do I like?
I guess if I had to choose I'd take Option 2. Nice and simple. The spiral just seems interesting. Also will allow the debian logo to be moved around. May the spiral on the left with Debian in a larger point font to the right.
Just my 2 cents.
Option 4 is nice, but.... (Score:1)
I'd change it to greyscale, if I had the time, but I don't. I personally like 2. The swirl is simple and eligant, doesn't say much though, but look at the Gnome Foot. I think the swirl looks nice even without the debian below.
just my $0.02
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
Perhaps this is why I use Debian?
Raul's is the best (Score:1)
Now only if I can vote. Who knows when my application will go through.
First comment? (Score:1)
I wonder if a slashdot poll would be kewl on this?
Or maybe it would piss off the Gimp people...
blotches and penguins (Score:1)
Somehow failing that, surely symbolic-based psychology studies would have something to say about all of this.
"I like the square!"
"Well, that says something about you. Conformist."
"Braaah!"
"Nurse -- help -- hey! H -- Geddim offame!"
Ahem. Sorry. Where was I?
Well, *that's* funny ... (Score:1)
reminiscent... (Score:1)
Lucent logo [lucent.com]
Inferno logo [lucent-inferno.com]
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:1)
apt-get install apache
Answer some questions and it was off and running. That easily!
I never really needed it for anything so I just played around for a while and the removed it. No problem. Debian's package management is great!
-Emilio
A DEMO!!! (Score:1)
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
The following extra packages will be installed:
xemacs20-support
The following NEW packages will be installed:
xemacs20-bin xemacs20-support
0 packages upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 12.3M of archives. After unpacking 33.3M will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-bin [133k]
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main xemacs20-support [12.2M]
Fetched 12.3M in 1m20s (153k/s)
Selecting previously deselected package xemacs20-support.
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Unpacking xemacs20-bin (from xemacs20-bin_20.4-13.deb)
Setting up xemacs20-support (20.4-13)
Setting up xemacs20-bin (20.4-13)
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root@foobar:/home# apt-get update
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/contrib Packages
Get ftp://ftp.jimpick.com slink/non-US Packages
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/main Packages
Get ftp://ftp.fuller.edu slink/non-free Packages
Fetched 593k in 2s (237k/s)
Updating package file cache...done
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
root@foobar:/home# apt-get upgrade
Updating package status cache...done
Checking system integrity...ok
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
root@r-398b:/home#
There are no new packages on ftp, so nothing is updated in the last command.
GUYS, check out this one. (Score:1)
I even remember reading a RMS' post where he said that he would like to see both, a penguin and a Gnu on Debian logo.
Doesn't guatamnlad #4 have a BIG problem??? (Score:1)
Another suggestion (Score:1)
Dig it... (Score:1)
I'm gonna miss ol'Captain Blue Eyes. BTW, that reminds me; does ANYONE know if a *LICENSE* was ever agreed upon?
-RISCy Business | Unix Guru, Unicent Telecom
I like the penguin (Score:1)
Okay, reading some newer comments, some have said that they want to move away from a linux related logo because they will also be carrying hurd. How about combining the current penguin with a GNU drawn in the same style? I would have the penguin riding the gnu, but someone is bound to read some sinister meaning into it (ugh, politics again).
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I like the penguin (Score:1)
I never saw anything wrong with it. It's actually related to linux (and ANT? a GENIE BOTTLE??) and it's stylish. It's also colorful without getting too complex. Unfortunately, after all this trouble, I doubt they'll vote to keep it.
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I like the penguin (Score:1)
Your right - there all butt ugly (Score:1)
Hmmm (Score:1)
Am I the only one who thinks that all of these designs are ugly? Personally, Rob, I like your logo for Debian better than any of these choices.
I'm not making any statement about how good Red Hat is as a product (no flames, please), but their logo is great, it really sums it right up.
I guess Raul's design is the most abstract and elegant, but I think the name could be integrated into the graphic somehow. Get rid of that genie bottle too. What is Debian, anyhow, a 1960's TV show?a tion/declaration.html
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/declar
I like Option 4 the best (Score:1)
I wish it were an open vote...
I like Option 4 the best (Score:1)
is the best one.. Simple and right to the point..
If we wanted, we could draw it on bar napkins
while drunk and leave for other patrons to try
and figure out: "Whats this guy on?" Debian Linux of course!
Well, *that's* funny ... (Score:1)
GLINDA
This could be anything from:
Gnu LINux Debian Architecture
to
Gnu LINux Distribution Alliance
One of the main problems with the term GNU/Linux is pronunciation. I won't use it for the same reason I won't use "International Business Machines"; it's far too tempting to say "IBM" or simply "Big Blue". For the same reason, I pronounce "WWW" as "dub-dub-dub".
GNU/Linux simply isn't easily reducable, and too long to use in normal conversation. GLinux doesn't cut it, nor does GNUnux (though maybe GNUx would--wouldn't that make RMS happy!) GLX sounds too much like a car or a biotech firm. Maybe just calling it "Penguin" would work...
Re:I like the penguin (Score:1)
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:2)
Previously I used Red Hat 5.1-5.2 The nice thing about Red Hat is that it's easy to install.
But Debian is not much more difficult.
The problem I ran into with Red Hat is that the blasted config files are all auto-generated and any effort to hand-edit them is either be wasted (because they get overwritten at boot-up) or results in a broken system because various tools rely on a strict format for the files.
Now perhaps I just did not follow all of the correct procedures, but having come from Slackware (and originally *cough* SLS), I'm used to rolling my own. Often I just don't want to be bothered with linuxconf or the [expletive] control-panel.
I'd describe Debian as Slackware with really, really nice packages. Packages include scripts that get run after installation to configure everything. There's a down side to this, however. You can't just start the install and walk away, because some scripts are interactive and ask you questions. Also, when I installed, the machine must have compiled the emacs math elisp code about 20 times. And this is not a quick process. I'm still not sure why deselect felt it should re-install elisp code several times.
That said, the package manager (dselect) is not as horrible as is generally thought around these parts. Yes, it takes a bit of getting used to, but the on-line help is really fabulous. I did not need to read the "printed" documentation to do simple things like select and install packages. Apparently a new and improved package manager is on the way.
But the truly great thing about Debian is apt. Apt lets you completely update your system with two simple commands:
% apt-get update
% apt-get upgrade
The first updates the list of available packages. Apt knows how to interface through ftp and http so you can scan packages from lots of remote places. The second command pulls down any new versions of packages you have installed. When a bugfix for Debian is announced, I run these two commands and my system is brought completely up-to-date with the latest rev. Apt is smart enough to resolve all package dependencies and also bring over any new packages that are necessary.
The downside to apt is that it relies on the package source location to have directories organized just like they are on the distribution CD. This isn't a problem at debian.org, but installing packages from most other places means you have to ftp and install "manually" (ala RPM). But I figure it's a good sign when this is one of the few "complaints" I have.
Now Red Hat's rpm can also install or upgrade over the net, but is there a tool for updating the package list (over the net) like apt? Perhaps someone can enlighten me. I find it hard to believe it could be any simpler than apt.
One of the few problems I have with Debian is that it starts every bloody daemon in existence by default. I still haven't had the time to go through and shut them all off. Also, my network setup is a little hosed, but I think that's my fault.
I've been very pleased with Debian so far. It's much less buggy than Red Hat (imagine that, quality assurance really does work!), upgrades are a breeze and it just feels rock-solid.
New Logo, lets get it right this time (Score:2)
Maybe just different animals for different kernels - penguin for Linux, gnu for Hurd, etc?
Question from fellow lazy sysadmin (Score:2)
FYI, you can set it up to do unattended installs. There is(are?) option(s) to give the scripts default answers at install time. I've never used this option personally, so I can't give you specifics (sorry), but I've spoken to several people who use it regularly. Check the docs.
Debian == bug? (Score:2)
--Phil (But I really like option 2. Clean, elegant, recognizable, good connotations.)
Genie Bottle (Score:2)
Think we could get Barbara Eden as a spokesperson?
Schwab
Where is the vote? (Score:2)
---
I sometimes get that. (Score:2)
I've been trying to find some pettern, so I can figure out what might be causing it. No identifiable pattern yet, though.
--
- Sean
New Logo, lets get it right this time (Score:2)
I like Raul. Its very clean, works well in a variety of color depths, and isn't too Linux specific. However it has problems. As someone else mentioned, its similar to a few other logo's. (its probably worthwhile to note that its similar in spirit to the Jini logo, though not in execution)
Jeanette is a high quality logo which would scale well and grabs the eye. I do wonder about the association with a bug though, if we are to believe that a logo should be designed to the fit the frame of mind of the masses then choosing an insect, regardless of the true intent, might not be such a hot idea.
Villate probably won't scale well enough, and might not look real good in lower bit depths. Drop shadows look good on web pages, but translate lousy to other media. (Oh the irony [wwu.edu])
Guatamnlad is too linux specific for my tastes. It would however probably scale well and look fine in b&w or 8bit color. Still, I find it unexciting to look at. Redhat has a cool logo, Suse has a cool logo, Debian can do better than this.
Captain Blue Eye must die. I've found this logo disturbing from day 1. Sure it meets the logo criteria for scalability, color, etc. But its just not engaging enough.
So while I really like Raul and I think it would make a fine logo I think we should be concerned about its similarity to other common place logos. A theme I think that Debian would do good to explore is the theme of the Debian wax seal. There was one submission in the Gimp logo contest with this theme, and while it didn't translate well, (bad jpeg compression artifacts really detracted from its beauty I think) it was a really good idea. A stylized wax seal could be just as eye catching as Raul, but avoid the similarity issues. It could easily be transmogrified from a simple 2 tone line drawing to a full-on photorealisitc image, all while retaining clarity and re-enforcing the Debian "brand". All we need now is for someone to go draw it. ;-)
I've taken one or two aborted attempts at this idea myself, but I found that I just wasn't deft enough with the Gimp to do it justice. I'm hoping that someone else gives it a try.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sorry but none of these entries are worthy... (Score:3)
What needs to happen is collaberation. Debian needs to let the artists know what kind of image they want to project. Then the artist will come up with several ideas and sketches. Debian should then look at what it likes out of the entries and thow out what it doesn't. The artist then goes back an comes up with more sketches that expand on the ideas that Debian has liked and maybe coming up with some ideas that Debian might like.
Once all the entries have been distilled down you should have a simple logo that can be printed in both color and b&w without compromising image. The logo should also be able to be printed at different sizes with out compromising quality. This logo needs to be unique so that when people look at it they automatically know 'Debian.'
One of the biggest thing in corporate America is image. I applaud Debian for realizing that they need to improve their image in order to become more mainstream. However I serious hope they turn all of these designs away because none of them are mature, simple, or unique enough to capture a good image of Debian.
At this point I would like to bring up Red Hat. Look at their logo. It is very simple. It can be printed very easily in b&w as well as color. It can be easily scalable. This logo also has the effect of distilling what Red Hat is down into a simple image. This is the type of thing that Debian needs to strive for.
As an artist I would also like to bring up my concern about the limited tool set that Debian was allowing to be used. While I think that The GIMP is a very useful tool, I think that it is not the right tool for this job. Like I said before, corporate logos need to be simple, clean, catchy and scalable. The GIMP is most useful at making complex effects and designs. And while yes it could be used to make simple designs it has one major flaw. It deals with raster based images. Raster based images are absolutely horrible when trying to scale to various different sizes. I believe that a vector based program at least needs to be allowed in to the mix...especially for corporate logo design.
I look forward to any comments people might have...