Are There More Linux Users Than We Think? (zdnet.com) 79
"By my count, Linux has over 11% of the desktop market," writes ZDNet's Steven Vaughan-Nichols:
In StatCounter's latest US numbers, which cover through October, Linux shows up as only 3.49%. But if you look closer, "unknown" accounts for 4.21%. Allow me to make an educated guess here: I suspect those unknown desktops are actually running Linux. What else could it be? FreeBSD? Unix? OS/2? Unlikely. In addition, ChromeOS comes in at 3.67%, which strikes me as much too low. Leaving that aside, ChromeOS is a Linux variant. It just uses the Chrome web browser for its interface rather than KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, or another Linux desktop environment. Put all these together, and you get a Linux desktop market share of 11.37%...
If you want to look at the broader world of end-user operating systems, including phones and tablets, Linux comes out even better. In the US, where we love our Apple iPhones, Android — yes, another Linux distro — boasts 41.71% of the market share, according to StatCounter's latest numbers. Globally, however, Android rules with 72.55% of the market. Yes, that's right, if you widen the Linux end-user operating system metric to include PC, tablets, and smartphones, you can make a reasonable argument that Linux, and not Windows, is already the top dog operating system...
If you add Chrome OS (1.7%) and Android (15.8%), 23.3% of all people accessing the U.S. government's websites are Linux users. The Linux kernel's user-facing footprint is much larger than the "desktop Linux" label suggests.
The article lists reasons more people might be switching to Linux, including broader hardware support and "the increased viability of gaming via Steam and Proton" — but also the rise of Digital Sovereignty initiatives. (One EU group has even created EU OS.")
And finally, "not everyone is thrilled with Windows 11 being turned into an AI-agentic operating system."
If you want to look at the broader world of end-user operating systems, including phones and tablets, Linux comes out even better. In the US, where we love our Apple iPhones, Android — yes, another Linux distro — boasts 41.71% of the market share, according to StatCounter's latest numbers. Globally, however, Android rules with 72.55% of the market. Yes, that's right, if you widen the Linux end-user operating system metric to include PC, tablets, and smartphones, you can make a reasonable argument that Linux, and not Windows, is already the top dog operating system...
If you add Chrome OS (1.7%) and Android (15.8%), 23.3% of all people accessing the U.S. government's websites are Linux users. The Linux kernel's user-facing footprint is much larger than the "desktop Linux" label suggests.
The article lists reasons more people might be switching to Linux, including broader hardware support and "the increased viability of gaming via Steam and Proton" — but also the rise of Digital Sovereignty initiatives. (One EU group has even created EU OS.")
And finally, "not everyone is thrilled with Windows 11 being turned into an AI-agentic operating system."
Betteridge says... (Score:5, Informative)
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Maybe, but these figures already basically match my evaluation of the situation.
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Maybe, but these figures already basically match my evaluation of the situation.
Interesting. If I did a spot poll of my current work environment, Unix desktops would account for approximately 0%.
At my previous job, one with 100,000+ employees, Unix desktops would be approximately 0%. I'm only personally acquainted with one person who insisted on a Linux desktop.
Of all my friends, I can think of on who might have a Linux desktop but suspect he actually uses a Mac.
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Only if you exclude Macs as Unix desktops for some reason. At my work, it is close to 30% as I count Macs as Unix desktops.
Right, same here. But most Mac users aren't using the Unix nature of macOS in any way. I would guess that 95% or more never open a shell window ever.
That said, the article was specifically talking about Linux desktops. Technically, macOS is not based on the Linux kernel so that's why it doesn't count. That doesn't seem the important part, though: how many users actually care what kernel they're running? I suspect what the survey was really trying to find is the systems using open source, non-commercial soft
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Right, same here. But most Mac users aren't using the Unix nature of macOS in any way. I would guess that 95% or more never open a shell window ever.
It does not change the definition of Unix desktop if a user does not use command line. It is still Unix behind the UI. By that argument, HP Unix was not Unix because HP made many functions menu driven by default.
That said, the article was specifically talking about Linux desktops.
And you muddled the conversation by saying there were Unix desktops at your work. That is not true. If there are Macs, there are Unix desktops
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Maybe, but these figures already basically match my evaluation of the situation.
The figures can be entirely correct and still the answer can be "no". Why? Because Android might use the Linux kernel, but it isn't really a Linux distro in any meaningful sense of the word. And Steam Deck and Chromebooks *can* have some reasonable facsimile of a Linux development environment, but I'd expect maybe 0.1% of users to actually turn it on.
So most of those folks are Linux "users" in much the same way that TiVo owners were linux "users", i.e. they are using a device that deep down, at a level t
Re:Betteridge says... (Score:4, Funny)
Betteridge says no.
I used to think like you until I read the headline, "Is Betteridge's Law of Headlines Correct?"
Re: Betteridge says... (Score:2)
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Mod parent funny and file it in the set of sets that do not contain themselves.
Why assume "unknown" is Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is not "others platforms we have identified", it is "unknown". It can be BSD, but it can also be a bot, someone running anti-fingerprinting extensions, a mobile browser in desktop mode, some embedded system, etc... Anything that doesn't match their rules. There is probably a higher proportion of Linux users than Windows or Apple users in there because Linux users are more likely to have a weird setup, but I wouldn't count on it.
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bots seems low for 4% (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why assume "unknown" is Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
I know we're a smaller chunk of the pie, but I do actively run FreeBSD on a number of desktops, workstations, and laptops here at home, of both the x86/AMD64 and ARM/Aarch64 variety. Because FreeBSD lives in the world that Linux did a while back, a fuckton of us fake our user agents because shit ass web devs STILL put hard checks into their code that says "your OS isn't supported on our site, therefor you cannot browse it" even though the OS makes fuck all difference inside of a web browser.
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And isn't Apple based on BSD these days?
Re: Why assume "unknown" is Linux? (Score:2)
If by "these days" you mean "for the last 20 years", then it is.
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Given that I encountered the first Mac in 1984 I think my statement still holds.
A real Mac has a 68k processor! ;)
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Re: Why assume "unknown" is Linux? (Score:2)
Correct. User Agent set to "flip off" or similar.
More the merrier (Score:2, Informative)
They are all quite similar from a user point of view and all based off one or the other NIXes
Re:More the merrier (Score:5, Interesting)
>"If we are adding in FreeBSD, Android etc, might as well also add in MacOS. They are all quite similar from a user point of view and all based off one or the other NIXes"
Not really. It isn't free, much of it isn't open, doesn't use X11 or Wayland, doesn't use any of the Linux desktop environments, and it really only runs on Apple hardware. Very different in many ways from Linux or BSD.
Although I think that throwing "unknown" and "BSD" into the Linux count is not valid.
Do humans hallucinate less than AI? (Score:2)
Would Betteridge say no?
Re: Do humans hallucinate less than AI? (Score:2)
since when are tablets and phones considered (Score:4, Informative)
desktop devices?
There's always been a clear distinction between mobile and desktop computing. /desktop/ devices--that is computers that sit on a /desk/ using a mouse and keyboard as input Linux still lags very far behind Windows and even Apple. Counting laptops among that probably lowers the Linux number even more.
Just counting all mobile Linux usage as desktop all of a sudden to make you feel better about it doesn't actually change the real numbers.
The fact remains that on
Mobile devices can arguably be counted among embedded devices--specialty devices that have tightly curated operating systems and software environments--and here Linux has a very strong presence.
Phones as desktop devices (Score:2)
Hand-held phones you put in your pocket typically aren't desktop devices, but many VoIP desk phones used in businesses are. Some may even run Linux (I haven't checked).
Not all desktop devices use a mouse or keyboard.
That said, the total number of desktop phones running Linux is probably small enough to be considered noise, at least for now. But in a few years, who knows?
Re: Phones as desktop devices (Score:2)
My tablet is usually used on my desktop. But a laptop is clearly not designed for a desktop, hence the name.
My favorite desktop device is a pad of paper and pencil. I even have a pencil sharpener to go with it on my desktop.
Tablet as a substitute for a netbook (Score:2)
I distinctly remember people recommending use of a tablet with external keyboard as a substitute for entry-level subnotebook computers when the latter were discontinued in fourth quarter 2012 [slashdot.org]. This despite that major tablets ship with operating systems locked down not to run the sort of lightweight software development environments that could run on the desktop operating system of a netbook.
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Lots of people use phones as their "desktop."
Technically, phones and tablets are not desktops, or laptops, but lots of people use phones, or tablets, as their primary, or only, computer device.
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I'm using Instapaper on my Kobo.
Via a Firefox plugin, naturally. No cross device downloading service needs to be a core component of a browser.
Of course there are... (Score:5, Interesting)
These stats are collected by checking the OS through the browser.
Quite a few browsers out there spoof the OS to Windows for compatibility reasons.
That alone is causing the Linux numbers to be massively under represented.
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Yep. I had to do that manually a while ago because some crappy websites simply could not deal. I guess browsers do that by default now.
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These stats are collected by checking the OS through the browser.
Quite a few browsers out there spoof the OS to Windows for compatibility reasons.
That alone is causing the Linux numbers to be massively under represented.
I know of no Linux distro or browser currently doing that by default, and I doubt millions of people manually set it so. One the flip side I know the site historically counts all sorts of weird bullshit, like a massive drop in MacOS users that explicably was nearly 100% "Unknown" (much to the disappointment of Slashdot), or that time we all celebrated the massive drop in Windows 11, only for it to reverse course the month after (much to the disappointment of Slashdot).
Do yourself a favour, for your own ment
probably (Score:1)
Alternative browsers on mobile
This could be the year! (Score:2)
Of fake Linux on the desktop statistics.
You interact with Linux all the time (Score:2)
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From self-checkouts running Linux...
Yes, but TFA was a bout Linux desktop systems. I assume that means your typical laptop/deskside computers, not phones, tablets, embedded systems, or rack-mounted datacenter gear.
I spend most of my time in a WSL environment on my Windows laptop. I wonder how that would count.
The debate goes on (Score:2)
It's not very feasible to try and count Linux use, linuxcounter.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The project closed because people stopped, there's a way forward with game compatibility via proton. Most of the web is usable now. Is it worth debating now as there's good parity between them and moving is simple enough.
Linux as a kernel, yeah, it's everywhere. (Score:2)
But if you think about Linux as an OS (what some would call GNU/Linux), you cannot include Android and ChromeOS on that list, sorry. So yeah, it's 3.5% + some of that 4.2% in the unknown, but no idea how much.
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On the other hand, if your realize the GNU userspace is also on Mac, and the xBSDs, the numbers go up.
A flat percentage is really not the way to go for this. Sadly, it is the limit of what most people "understand".
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Both use BSD (style) utilities. The BSDs because they are BSDs why should they use GNU (but you can optionally install it, of course) and Mac because Apple doesn't want their OS to be tainted by GPL to be sure they won't be obliged to share sources of any component they do not want to open source.
Using GPL is the guarantee that Apple and Google keep their fingers off your software.
Re: Linux as a kernel, yeah, it's everywhere. (Score:2)
Apple has a handful of GPL programs and publishes their modifications. Bash being the most obvious example.
ref: https://opensource.apple.com/r... [apple.com]
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Didn't they change to zsh to avoid GPLv3 bash?
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/bin/bash is still installed, so people's typical shell scripts like command-line installers and whatnot still work.
I think the default being zsh is that it's less buggy and has some nice interface features.
The real question we should ask is not why Apple includes zsh by default, but why Ubuntu makes you install it before you can use it.
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Is it maybe a GPLv2 bash forked from before they changed the license to v3? As far as I remember Apple had a problem with the patent clause, which may stop them from suing contributors of GPLv3 programs over using techniques patented by Apple.
Well yeah, of course (Score:2)
I mean services like statscounter typically derive their statistics from Javascript run from ad- or tracking-servers. It is somewhat more likely that Linux (or BSD) users have something like noscript or an aggressive ad-blocker installed.
Then of course there is the point that many, if not most, Windows installations never load a webpage from the Internet. There is a huge chunk of people who use Windows for specialized applications without Internet access. It's a legacy platform.
Android (Score:1)
Yeah, and Android is also "Linux" which makes is the most popular OS in the world.
Very fat sarcasm aside, Android is not Linux (aside from a forked, heavily patched, frozen version of the Linux kernel), ChromeOS is not Linux (it's an atomically (!) updated immutable (!) Linux kernel based OS distributed by Google), and SteamOS is also not Linux (see ChromeOS above), if we are talking about Linux distros containing
* upstream kernel with minimal changes
* glibc and other usual libraries
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Linux fans will obviously downvote me to hell, but I'm OK with tribalism and zealotry because this post contains nothing but facts.
Your first full paragraph is 100% opinion. Run along now.
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Indeed. Funny how people with weakly justified views often have to add cheap manipulation tricks.
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When people refer to Linux they normally refer to an operating system based on it, and the most common and well known operating system using Linux is one of a gazillion of Linux distros. No one has ever thought of Android as the "Linux", it's just bunkers. Why? Because Google may replace the kernel component with something else and they almost went through with that for Android but stopped at certain Nest devices.
Without userspace [the] Linux [kernel] is 100% useless.
My "ignorance" is OK, while your log
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When people refer to Linux they normally refer to an operating system based on it, and the most common and well known operating system using Linux is one of a gazillion of Linux distros.
This article and the data behind it are talking about what is and is not based on the Linux kernel not what the general population defines as Linux. You want everyone to ignore that while making your argument.
No one has ever thought of Android as the "Linux", it's just bunkers. Why?
Strawman argument. Anyone who knows anything technical about Android knows it is based on the Linux kernel.
Because Google may replace the kernel component with something else and they almost went through with that for Android but stopped at certain Nest devices.
Classic whataboutism. You might as well speculated that a meteor will wipe out civilization and no one can update Android anymore. That is equally as relevant as your scenario. Android uses the Li
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Android is (below that stupid UI) very much linux underneath, as any dev who has spent time hacking various android devices can tell you. (and not some social media/stackexchange opinion bot recycling safe pieces of "common wisdom" for likes).
Android is using the same "linux" technologies as any typical desktop, server or embedded implementation of linux (selinux, namespaces, dm-verity, et
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Yeah, Android also uses glibc, systemd, xorg/wayland-something, and linux packages. Oh wait, it doesn't. There's almost nothing from the average Linux distro in Android aside from the built-in kernel features that you mentioned. Nice try though.
Oh, and it also uses the unmodified mainline kernel. Oh wait, again it doesn't. It uses its own heavily modified
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The Linux kernel without userspace is 100% irrelevant and useless and the userspace defines it. The average Linux distro userspace is a complete fucking mess, as Linus Torvalds himself reiterated [youtu.be] a few days ago. Yeah, he said that 11 years ago [youtu.be] and no one has done shit to address it.
I could care less about your car analogy. You got the premise wrong. You call everything with the kernel - Linux. That's not how logic, common sense and reality work.
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The Linux kernel without userspace is 100% irrelevant and useless and the userspace defines it.
1) Linux is a kernel. Always has been. 2) The fact it is a kernel makes it more relevance because people can change the userspace. Linux can be used in a desktop OS, mobile OS, HPC OS, etc.
The average Linux distro userspace is a complete fucking mess, as Linus Torvalds himself reiterated [youtu.be] a few days ago.
A Linux distro is not the Linux kernel. To contort your argument, you are willing to bring in irrelevant facts.
I could care less about your car analogy. You got the premise wrong. You call everything with the kernel - Linux. That's not how logic, common sense and reality work.
No, let's be clear: You don't care about facts. Linux is a kernel. It has been for 30+ years since the very beginning of Linux. Today there are Linux-based OS variants which you have low opinions. But you are wi
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Well, we've found the Stallman zealot. lol
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Another nice insult and, sorry to break it to you, but I couldn't care less about Stallman.
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I agree with you on the points about Android and ChromeOS; they're less "Linux" than a Tivo. You're wrong about SteamOS though, it passes every one of your qualifying tests.
hold your horses, there's a massive over count (Score:3)
Let's just focus on PC usage, leaving out Android phones and tablets, as well as Chromebooks.
If we count users as in people behind the browsers, then just for me, there's a count of about 10. Meaning 10 browsers running just for one user, me. There's a Firefox instance on my primary desktop at home (VNC session in a headless server, to be exact) and a second one in a different account but on the same desktop, then one on a secondary desktop connecting to the net through a VPN (the VM session is called edonkey for historic reasons), a third on a living room music playing session, where requests from YouTube and such can be played. Then there's the projector connected home theater machine, where a Firefox instance gets used for video playback on the big screen (though rarely). Then I use two different laptops from time to time. Three if you count the lesser used Pine Book Pro.
Oh, and if every Firefox container gets counted separately, which technically it should, it's even more, I have and use at least 5 containers on my 3 most used Firefox instances. That leads to me being counted about 25 times.
On top of this, I'm quite an average (not to say mediocre) user when it comes to Linux, many are more skilled and will employ better privacy protecting measures, leading to even more fragmented usage, upping the count even more. So we can safely divide the percentage of Linux users by an even greater number. 50 seems reasonable.
Any honest count is likely a very very small percentage of the official number, which is a mere single digit.
I think with all the writing, Steven J. Vaughn isn't likely to do much coding, there's a few prolific posters here on Slashdot who confess to using Linux, and are too prolific posting to do serious amounts of development.
So yes, we're more than a dozen average users. But not much more. Then, considering all the Linux developments, there must be several 100 if not 1000 developers, who are unlikely to use Windows for development, but some may actually use MacOS.
But since some Linux users are very noisy, we do get lots of usable hardware (drivers state is great nowadays). Because enough noise is made that sounds fitting for single digit percentage PC usage.
Realistically, there's at most a few 100 users and a few 1000 developers. That's really it, guys and girls, everything else is overcounted. I do want to express my sincere gratitude to all those Devs putting on all that effort for me and others like me. Thank you all!!
Apologies to burst the bubble, but no, Christmas is not early and the year of desktop Linux is still not upon mankind.
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Thanks for adding that. The number of people stupid and loud enough to write something like that being fully serious is raising.
Ifs and buts (Score:2)
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts then Linux would be on every desktop.
Android (Score:2)
Android is basically Linux, not Desktop or full GNU/Linux but it is Linux, alright. So is ChromeOS and whatever the F aluminum is.
And with SteamOS / bazzite / etc and Proton, things are indeed looking very bright for people to make the switch - when the alternative is something horribly disgusting like win11.
Linux worked generally great on the desktop for many, many years, but with rock solid gaming support it finally filled the last gap.
Mobiles aren't desktops (Score:2)
I mean if you're going to count mobile, why not count any use frontend use of backend servers as well. After all, slashdot.org is running on Linux, so you're using it now on a desktop or mobile. We don't do this because the argument gets absurd.
Desktop generally counts desktop and laptop type computers and most of them aren't running Linux, they're running WIndows, MacOS, ChromeOS and some kind of Linux (or "Unknown", I suppose). You could count ChromeOS into Linux but that still doesn't beat out Win
otoh Linux is conversationally over represented (Score:2)
... In the sense of "a Linux-using vegan who went to Yale didn't know how to start her conversations..."
of course (Score:2)
There are a lot of Linux users that don't hang out in the same bars as you. It's just like being gay, not everyone is out there and active in the community.
I think there are more than I think; but not 11% (Score:2)
I see more people randomly have a Linux laptop than I saw in the past. Or people I learn are using a Linux at home. So I think there is more than I realize.
But I don't think that adds up to 11% in any way. 1 in 10 would mean it's essentially everywhere. I don't see it everywhere.
Can we please stop using this stupid site? (Score:2)
This is the site that inexplicably listed Windows 11 market share dropping by some 15 million people in one month (given percentages), which resulted in applause from Slashdotters, only for the following month to add some 16million back to the market share.
The site isn't a reliable judgement of any system. There's no reason to assume Unknown = Linux, when the reality is Unknown can mean anything, including Linux and MacOS which the site constantly miscategorises.
It's a rubbish site for anything other than t
User Agent Rubbish (Score:2)
Or, it could just be users using anonymity-hardened browsers that set User Agent to random jibberish.
So commercial distros win? (Score:2)
Setting aside that phones and tablets are not "desktops," the author counts Android and iOS as "Linux on the desktop" and trots out a 72% market share number. But I don't think that those who long for the Year of the Linux Desktop, would find it fulfilling that their long-sought goal was achieved not by a free, open source Linux distro, but rather, by one or more commercial, for-profit distros.
Real nerds can utilize any OS (Score:2)
My left monitor displays my gaming laptop running Windows 11, which is easily travels with me. My right monitor displays my desktop/media server running Linux Mint. My go-to laptop from the couch or walking out the door is an M1 MacBook Air. I'm excited to see Proton ported to it, since I do a lot of gaming on a Steam Deck, which also gets docked to my TV.