Ask Slashdot: Where Can You Buy a Desktop PC That Makes Linux Easy to Install? 233
"It's time for me to build a new Linux PC," writes Slashdot reader eggegick, complaining that while Dell (and Amazon) sell systems with Linux pre-installed, it feels like they're tacking on an unnecessary extra expense.
But then who sells a desktop PC where Linux is still easy to install? Windows seems to make it difficult to use your own (Linux OS) boot media: I guess this is a security measure, but I can think of better ways to implement this, for instance ask the user to type in "yes" or "fire the explosive bolts", or some sort of simple override).... As it is, I hit the F12 key during the boot to enter the BIOS, hoping to tell it to enable booting from the CD. Well I have not looked at a BIOS screen in a long time, and there is no "enable boot from CD option" anymore. There are some options for booting from other devices but it is all fubar magic to me.
One Dell user discovered it's as simple (or as complicated) as going into Settings / Recovery / Troubleshoot / Advanced options / See More Recovery Settings / Advanced Options / UEFI Firmware Settings / Restart to Change UEFI Firmware Settings. (And then under the Boot menu there's a choice called "Secure Boot" with an option labelled "Disabled," after which under the Boot menu the third choice becomes File Browser Add Boot Option / Select Media Driver...)
Is that simple enough — or is it fubar magic? "My question is, who builds a desktop PC these days that is user friendly in this regard (i.e. lets me install the OS I want)," asks the original submission.
Share your own experiences and suggestions in the comments. Where can you buy a desktop PC that makes Linux easy to install?
But then who sells a desktop PC where Linux is still easy to install? Windows seems to make it difficult to use your own (Linux OS) boot media: I guess this is a security measure, but I can think of better ways to implement this, for instance ask the user to type in "yes" or "fire the explosive bolts", or some sort of simple override).... As it is, I hit the F12 key during the boot to enter the BIOS, hoping to tell it to enable booting from the CD. Well I have not looked at a BIOS screen in a long time, and there is no "enable boot from CD option" anymore. There are some options for booting from other devices but it is all fubar magic to me.
One Dell user discovered it's as simple (or as complicated) as going into Settings / Recovery / Troubleshoot / Advanced options / See More Recovery Settings / Advanced Options / UEFI Firmware Settings / Restart to Change UEFI Firmware Settings. (And then under the Boot menu there's a choice called "Secure Boot" with an option labelled "Disabled," after which under the Boot menu the third choice becomes File Browser Add Boot Option / Select Media Driver...)
Is that simple enough — or is it fubar magic? "My question is, who builds a desktop PC these days that is user friendly in this regard (i.e. lets me install the OS I want)," asks the original submission.
Share your own experiences and suggestions in the comments. Where can you buy a desktop PC that makes Linux easy to install?
You build it (Score:5, Insightful)
We're asking this question on a "news for nerds" site? Build the dang PC yourself. I've been doing it that way since I was a teenager and we're talking single core 386 CPUs with a clock speed measured in MHz, not GHz.
Re: You build it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: You build it (Score:5, Informative)
Last one I built uses a Gigabyte GA-Z710X motherboard from 2015. I don't need bleeding edge performance, so this works fine for me. Absolutely zero issues installing Linux Mint 20, or upgrading to Mint 21 last week.
Suggest using SSD for increased zippiness. It runs at least as fast as my work laptop.
Re: Boot Windows from inside Linux? (Score:2)
Re: You build it (Score:3)
Re:You build it (Score:4, Funny)
We're asking this question on a "news for nerds" site? Build the dang PC yourself. I've been doing it that way since I was a teenager and we're talking single core 386 CPUs with a clock speed measured in MHz, not GHz.
Your CPUs were measured in MHz? Luxury! ... -- Said Four Yorkshiremen [wikipedia.org] :-)
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My first computer's clock was 1.77 MHz.
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My first computer's clock was 1.77 MHz.
Guessing a TRS-80 [wikipedia.org]? I had one too.
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>>"My first computer's clock was 1.77 MHz.
>"Guessing a TRS-80? I had one too."
As did I. My first computer was a TRS-80 CoCo 1, with 4K of RAM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
1.79 Mhz. And it was damn expensive. Things like printer and floppy drive had to wait. Hard drive was years away, and I think only when I got the to CoCo 3, and then- wow- OS/9 level 2 on it, man!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Real-time, process-based, multitasking, multi-user operating system with GUI. MS-DOS was so pr
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Re: You build it (Score:2)
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You sure you don't mean 4.77?
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We only had lower case L's.
Re:You build it (Score:4, Funny)
Clock crystal?
You were lucky!
We had to drag huge stones from Wales to Salisbury, bury them half in't gound, wait for equinox and then our clan fathers would cut us in two wi axe and dance on us barrows singing "Hail to to Herne"!
And you try telling young pagans that today...
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I'm not the submitter but although I could build a machine I'd rather not have to spend the time to figure out which components I should get and how compatible it would be with whatever version of Linux I chose. I've never built a machine from scratch but I've replaced enough parts to be confident I could do it. I just don't want to mess with it when I think my time could be spent better doing something else.
My last adventure with Linux was having it work fine in a virtual machine but when I tried actuall
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While that is my answer, anyone who thinks changing the secure boot setting is onerous isn't going to be happy going that route. Just reflect on how many BIOS settings you can/have to fiddle with the last time you replaced your mobo.
The good news is it's easier than it used to be in that there are a number of "check compatibility" sites to verify your processor, memory, mobo, and whatnot will all work together. Without that (or this being something you do all day, every day) it's days of research reading op
News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:5, Insightful)
If your metric for "ease of installing an OS" is based on how difficult the BIOS screen to navigate is, and you find navigating menu options to be "fubar magic" may I politely suggest you ask one of your younger relatives to install your OS for you. I'll grant you a point for falling back to blaming "Microshaft" for your ineptitude though. Thats vintage /. right there.
This submission is ridiculous.
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Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:5, Insightful)
So it's his fault you bought a piece of equipment that isn't suitable for the intended purpose?
And then you call THEM an idiot?
Let me help you with your purchasing processes:
1. determine requirements
2. match products to the requirements
3. purchase a product that is actually supported to handle the requirements.
If you would have properly done #1 and #2, you would have easily seen that installing Linux on a cheap and terrible "consumer" laptop isn't going to be easy, if even possible, and actually have all the hardware working as intended. You get what you pay for - there is a reason why HP makes more expensive laptops with different (read: supported) components inside.
Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:4, Insightful)
If you would have properly done #1 and #2,
This post is by someone asking for advice for doing 1 and 2 properly. But sure, be a smug dickhead about it.
Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me guess, you program your own microcode for the chips you use when you build your PC. Jesus, give the guy a break, you techno-weenie.
Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:5, Insightful)
Just don't ask anybody too young, the generation who computes on smart phones and tablets doesn't even know what a file structure is.
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I have mod points but you can't have them because you can't comment and mod the same topic. And it is much more important for me to comment than to mod. ./s
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Just don't ask anybody too young, the generation who computes on smart phones and tablets doesn't even know what a file structure is.
And? Why is this a problem? The goal of using a PC is not to understand how a file structure works, it's to use the system as needed. Conversely I find plenty of the "old guard" in the PC world can't for the life of them figure out Dynamic Libraries in windows and dump their documents on some subfolder in C:\ and can't figure out how to access downloads on their phones.
You only need to know what you use. Shit man on Slashdot there have been plenty of users who don't understand the basic file structure of Wi
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While this may not be written down in a textbook, it's empirically clear that software is a trap. It is meant to capture you and make you do things one way, the way the software does it. So imho, Apple, Microsoft, and others <adobe, ubuntu, redhat> have effectively done that. They've captured people. They own your mind. Look at the passionate fighting t
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Just don't ask anybody too young, the generation who computes on smart phones and tablets doesn't even know what a file structure is.
Or a "CD"
Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:5, Insightful)
your metric for "ease of installing an OS" is based on how difficult the BIOS screen to navigate is, and you find navigating menu options to be "fubar magic"
Like it or not, that's the average Windows Power User for you. Normies are even worse. A sad but true state of affairs for the general population's level of education when it comes to IT. If you want Linux, or any other OS / UI / software stack (It's all the same to Normies.) for that matter, to grow it's user base and become the dominant player, you'll have to accommodate them. There's no way around it short of giving them a proper education after you convince them that such education is worth having.
Sadly, all of the major players in the IT industry have a vested interest in keeping the majority of the public ignorant when it comes to the technology that runs their lives. In many ways, the fact that this submission exists is a failure on their part to keep the lid on knowledge, and the "confusing" BIOS (really a UEFI firmware config utility) is the technical means by which Microshaft makes a last ditch effort to scare those who found a crack in their smokescreen back inside. As is the very next question which is "Why do I have to disable security when installing anything that's not Microshaft approved by default?" The entire point is to make users feel uncomfortable using anything but Winblows. Another thing is that some devices, hello Microshaft Surface, forcibly display a scary banner declaring that the system is "insecure" when Secure Boot is disabled with no way to turn it off. Unless the owner re-enables Secure Boot. Which if the device doesn't allow changing the Platform Key, again hello Microshaft Surface, means they must also reinstall a Microshaft approved OS otherwise the device will not boot. It's a play straight from the Smartphone world and it's unlocked bootloaders. With the entire point being, again, to make ignorant users feel uncomfortable.
may I politely suggest you ask one of your younger relatives to install your OS for you.
A younger relative probably isn't going to know much about Linux or any other alternative OS in most cases. Yes, you might find the occasional Linux guru hidden in that dark corner of the family, but they aren't the best option to rely on when dealing with something that you need to work correctly on a consistent basis. If you can rely on them, great. More power to you. Most people however would like additional (local) alternatives they can ask for help if something goes wrong. The local freak squad / genius darrrr... isn't about to offer any help beyond "buy a new device and don't fuck it up this time." That means they need help from outside the big support brands if they dare venture out of the vendor's lock-in. (Again, an intentional move by the industry.) For Linux, that typically means you need an additional functional device to ask for help online when your main device gets fucked up. While also hoping that someone can answer your problem, or else it's a reinstall for you and a long time reconfiguring everything from scratch. Most people will go running and begging back to Microshaft when that happens for the first time and their "younger relative" isn't around to help.
I'll grant you a point for falling back to blaming "Microshaft" for your ineptitude though.
The GP isn't wrong. Again, Microshaft and others have a vested interest in keeping the GP and everyone else as ignorant as possible. Most people would disable spying that every major player in the IT industry does (a major source of income for the industry incumbents), if they knew how to do so, exactly what was being collected about them, and how that data could be used against them. If it was quick and painless to use something other than Winblows, without any sacrifices, people would jump ship instantly. (Even more so now with the constantly breaking it
Re: News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:3)
A sad but true state of affairs for the general population's level of education when it comes to IT.
The truth is IT creates too many of its own problems, and people like you call others "normies" and engage in victim blaming. We keep raising the bar, climb over it, then act like everyone else is retarded.
BIOS or UEFI don't need to suck. There's no competition or pressure to unfuck it. Since the topic is system firmware that doesn't suck for Linux, lets take a look at some real Unix firmware that sucks less and reflect on why we don't have that.
First, take your mouse and shove it right up your ass for the
Re: News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:2)
The only thing ridiculous about it is expecting a bunch of neckbeards, whose solution to every disagreement is "fork it yourself" and every display of ignorance is instantly met with arrogance, to care about the plight of others enough to develop an IT industry that is better for everyone.
I reread everything you wrote and I was kind of harsh in my other comment, I think you get the problem I was talking about, we might blame different things as the root cause, but sorry I kind of went off on you.
FTFY: Re:News for normies, stuff for social media (Score:2)
FTFY
may I politely suggest you ask one of your OLDER relatives to install your OS for you
It is the younger generation who are likely to only know how to install apps on phones or how to use PCs that are already built for them. It is far more likely older computer users are the ones who have had to change the BIOS or even jumpers on motherboards. Younger people have been raised on laptops and phones, which don't a
That’s been my experience (Score:5, Insightful)
I’m no stranger to these things, so I can manage it. And Linux kicks absolutely ass in certain industry sectors. But for non-engineer-non-hobbyist individuals, it’s just too technical. Most people just want their car to run, and they aren’t interested in manually tuning the injection sequence every time the weather changes. Same for computers.
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This has been the core issue since the 90s.
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Two things:
1. Your mileage may vary. All but one of my Linux installations have been fast and simple. Just once i had to enter parameters in GRUB to get my nvidia card to display graphics correctly.
2. If you have an ubuntu thumb in your hand, you don't just want to use your computer as an appliance. You are already some sort of computer enthusiast. You know how to put an .iso on a thumb drive and what you should do to boot on it. Even knowing you can install an OS is above passive minimal knowledge.
Re: That’s been my experience (Score:5, Informative)
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I've been using Linux Mint for years now, up through ver 19 and 20, super easy install to replace Win too, 25 minutes, never needed the cli yet.
Sure... but that's a bit like saying you have a wine cellar full of fine, old wines but you have a goon bag in the kitchen so you've never needed to open a bottle.
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My past experiences with Solus and Mint have been okay. Solus (website down now) has a VERY detailed guide on how to install, and the community is pretty decent at responding to even noob level questions.
Some copy and paste at the command line for less than ideal installs, sure, but for the most part installs and use have been very straightforward, and Solus Budgie is sweeet.
The thing holding linux back now imho is the lack of good third party software. Jumping through hoops to use wine isn't going to fly f
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Linux is precisely designed by and for hobbyists who are technical. Anyone who isn't both of those things, shouldn't be installing Linux.
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Microsoft Says No (Score:5, Informative)
As other will state you build it your self since Microsoft pays PC makers to make it difficult to install another OS.
Some manufacturers still leave options in the BIOS/UEFI so that you can easily boot from other media.
My first PC was a custom build from a local PC guy who warned me about pre-built PC's.
30 years later and I still build my own PC's and servers.
If you would like a pre-built Linux friendly PC, then I suggest finding a local shop and getting them to build you a custom PC with Linux on it. I'm sure the advice you receive will last a lifetime.
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Lenovo sell PCs with Linux pre installed, or no OS at all. With a blank drive they boot from CD or USB by default.
Re:Microsoft Says No (Score:4, Insightful)
They also have back doors in their BIOS. And they are owned by the Chinese.
Re:Microsoft Says No (Score:5, Interesting)
Lenovo sell PCs with Linux pre installed, or no OS at all. With a blank drive they boot from CD or USB by default.
They also have back doors in their BIOS. And they are owned by the Chinese.
The Long Hack: How China Exploited a U.S. Tech Supplier (Feb 11, 2021) [bloomberg.com]
Another Pentagon supplier that received attention was China's Lenovo Group Ltd. In 2008, U.S. investigators found that military units in Iraq were using Lenovo laptops in which the hardware had been altered. The discovery surfaced later in little-noticed testimony [assets.bwbx.io] during a U.S. criminal case-a rare public description of a Chinese hardware hack.
From the testimony [assets.bwbx.io]:
Q: Anything else going on during 2008 with other technology that was found to be counterfeit being used by the military in Iraq?
A: The primary thing that was found was Lenovo laptops. IBM Think Pads were outsourced to a company in China called Lenovo to be built. A large amount of Lenovo laptops were sold to the US military that had a chip encrypted on the motherboard that would record all the data that was being inputted into that laptop and send it back to China.
That was a big problem. That was a huge security breach. We don't have any idea how much data they got, but we had to take all those systems off the network.
Superfish [wikipedia.org]
Superfish's software is malware and adware. The software was bundled with various applications as early as 2010, and Lenovo began to bundle the software with some of its computers in September 2014.[4] On February 20, 2015, the United States Department of Homeland Security advised uninstalling it and its associated root certificate, because they make computers vulnerable to serious cyberattacks, including interception of passwords and sensitive data being transmitted through browsers.
The Chinese Threat That's Hiding in Plain Sight (Sep 12, 2019) [thebulwark.com]
Lenovo's Watch X sent user locations to a server in China [techcrunch.com] without their knowledge; its Superfish [wsj.com] adware installed in hundreds of thousands of computers allowed third-parties to spy on browser traffic, resulting in a settlement with the Federal Trade Commission; security researchers found that Adups [digitaltrends.com] data mining software on Lenovo phones could collect personal data without consent.
Lenovo PCs and Laptops seem to have a BIOS level backdoor (Aug 13, 2015) [techworm.net]
The Chinese computer and laptop maker, Lenovo is once again in the eye of the storm after users have found that their PCs/Laptops are shipped with a hidden backdoor at the BIOS level. Earlier in the year, it was found that all Lenovo PCs/Laptops are shipped with a spyware called Superfish [techworm.net].
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As other will state you build it your self since Microsoft pays PC makers to make it difficult to install another OS.
[...]
If you would like a pre-built Linux friendly PC, then I suggest finding a local shop and getting them to build you a custom PC with Linux on it. I'm sure the advice you receive will last a lifetime.
Or blank one but yeah. It's what I did last time. I can build a PC from parts, but I've done it plenty so these days I'd rather just pay someone. I used a company that makes gamerz PCs to orde
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Well, building a Linux box requires doing some research first so you know there are proper drivers for all the components and peripherals. I still do custom builds for clients, I just don't feel it is proper to advertise in a comment.
I also use parts from known good manufacturers not just in quality but ease of replacements if required (RMA). It doesn't do any good to have a compatible non functioning part that you can't easily get swapped out.
It has been fun watching Linux grow in popularity and compatibil
I donâ(TM)t follow (Score:5, Interesting)
Iâ(TM)ve had no problems getting any of the various Linux flavors installed on any mainstream (Dell, Lenovo, HP) computer that Iâ(TM)ve encountered. Macs might have taken an extra step here or there.
Usually itâ(TM)s just a case of figuring out where the vendor put securevoot in the Bios and how to bring up the boot menu to select the usb to start from.
If you canâ(TM)t figure how to do those, then DuckDuckGo is your friend. Ask it how to access your systems boot menu.
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If you canâ(TM)t figure how to do those, then DuckDuckGo is your friend.
TFS quotes a user who thinks you need to trawl through 8 submenus in Windows to get into BIOS, whereas the first result on DuckDuckGo, Google, and oh-hell even Bing will say he could simply hit F2 when the Dell logo comes up.
You're not talking about someone who is capable of a basic search.
Lenovo (Score:2)
Don't know about other Lenovo systems though.
I'd buy a Frameworks one, but they still haven't given an AMD option yet.
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It isn't that hard (Score:4, Insightful)
>"But then who sells a desktop PC where Linux is still easy to install? Windows seems to make it difficult to use your own (Linux OS) boot media"
Not really. MS-Windows has nothing to do with it. I have yet to find a machine that I can't easily install Linux on at this point. I just bought a Lenovo X13 gen2 AMD laptop last month. Went in the BIOS, made sure "Secure Boot" was off that USB boot was available, powered on, booted off a LinuxMint USB stick. Install was fast and then EVERYTHING worked- video, audio, WiFi, USB, suspend, 3D, webcam, media keys, etc. And with a little work, even the fingerprint sensor works, and I can even update the BIOS from WITHIN LINUX. And this was a very newly designed machine, at that.
Home desktop? I built it a few years ago with a quality Asus Prime X570-P AM4 motherboard and AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, Kingston 32GB RAM, Corsair M.2, and a bunch of other stuff. Install was just as easy. HP's and others at work, all install Linux easily.
Granted, I didn't dual-boot, because I don't use or care about MS-Windows. Perhaps that is a little more difficult, I don't know. All the ones I have used, there is one key to use to override the booting and another to get into the BIOS. Perhaps there are some strange machines out there I haven't encountered that do strange things with their BIOSes?
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Have you tried using Secure Boot with Linux? It has some nice security benefits. You sound be able to install your own certificate.
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>"Have you tried using Secure Boot with Linux? It has some nice security benefits. You sound be able to install your own certificate."
I thought about it, but I really didn't feel the need to bother with it. One day I probably should, just to say I did it.
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Put Linux on a Microsoft Surface tablet. I dare you. Then document it. I double dare you.
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>"Put Linux on a Microsoft Surface tablet. I dare you. Then document it. I double dare you."
That is something I would never buy or use. So I will take a pass on it.
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Would a Surface 2 do? (I think it's a Surface 2, it has an I5, 8GB RAM and a 256 SSD.)
Step 1: create USB drive with linux mint
Step 2: change boot order in BIOS
Step 3: boot from USB
Step 4: install
See, it wasn't that hard.
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Nope. Surface original. Has an ARMpit processor. Nice try though.
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Ouch, one of those. Sorry, forgot about that.
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Went in the BIOS
You're replying to a troll Ask-Slashdot where they think the process of entering the BIOS on a Dell PC involves trolling through 8 submenus within Windows rather than simply hitting F2 at boot.
Yes installing Linux is easy. But then so are a lot of things that for whatever reason people in the world are too stupid to figure out.
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>"You're replying to a troll Ask-Slashdot where they think the process of entering the BIOS on a Dell PC involves trolling through 8 submenus within Windows rather than simply hitting F2 at boot."
In reality, I am replying to anyone reading the silly thing that doesn't know better. Yeah, probably a waste of time. But ya never know.
System76 (Score:2)
Quality desktop machines, built in house. https://system76.com/ [system76.com]
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Confirm System76 machines are fantastic. A smidge higher in cost, but fantastic hardware. I have an 6 year old Oryx Pro that is still running very strong. I use it as a test machine for all kinds of things. Annual distro hopping experiments, gaming, and occasionally even real actual work.
It maybe easier.. (Score:2)
No issue here (Score:2)
The biggest problem I've had is with Windows, not Linux. If you mess up its boot block, it is a pain to get working again. (I copied the partitions from one SSD to another and for some reason, this messed up the boot from Windows).
I've also had issues when moving a disk from a legacy bios boot motherboard to an UEFI boot motherboard. I never go
Do NOT buy a "brand" PC (Score:5, Insightful)
Build it yourself from shelf components. Always.
The reason for this is simple. Anything that has a brand will invariably also have custom drivers for their custom hardware. Which will likely not have too strong of a Linux support because the brand has no interest in you installing Linux on it and the OSS community in turn doesn't really have a lot of incentive to support some hardware that maybe only a handful of people use to install Linux on it.
Get a mainboard of your choice, get a matching CPU and ram. The more generic and the less "special" the better. Try to make sure that you have as generic and ubiquitous chips on it as you can. You want as generic a sound, network, USB and WiFi hardware on your mainboard as you can have. Check around for various boards and if they all use the same sound/wifi/network/usb controller chips, perfect. That's what you want.
GPU, I would go with AMD. For the simple reason that they OSS'ed their drivers. You can get nVidia drivers (just please ignore those "noveau" crap or whatever the OSS version of nVidia is called... ok, unless something changed BIG time within the past 3 years, they're horrible garbage) just fine, and they do work fine, too, it's just that they're not OSS, so you will get the evil eye from the purists (and of course Debian). In the end, though, it's entirely up to you.
That's pretty much it. Steer clear from various keyboards and mice with "additional" features, because more often than not they won't get any support on Linux anyway, so you can save a couple bucks there.
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Anything that has a brand will invariably also have custom drivers for their custom hardware.
At least nine times out of ten there is no custom hardware. There are custom drivers for it anyway, but you don't need them, especially on Linux. Even on Windows you can look in the device properties, get the IDs, and google to find drivers.
GPU, I would go with AMD. For the simple reason that they OSS'ed their drivers.
If you want to mess with "AI"/ML etc you will want nvidia, not AMD. OpenCL isn't up to CUDA's level, and even if it were, most projects don't use it. Otherwise, sure.
OMGWTF!? (Score:2)
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Why is Ask Slashdot so full of shit like this?
Clearly people like being abused by raging neck beards.
Or you know, just skip over the article?
Booting up USB isn't the problem. Dual boot is. (Score:5, Informative)
Booting up from an installation usb stick is pretty straightforward, even if it requires significantly altering your BIOS configuration. There are countless guides all over the internet on how to do it so installing a Linux on your desktop is not a problem at all.
Problems start if you'd like to dual boot, i.e. have both Windows and Linux installed on the same desktop.
And it's not even that that some distributions make it difficult to re-enable UEFI/Secure Boot. The problem is that Windows gained support for Linux filesystems and, like Windows, it likes to put its big fat fingers on things which it shouldn't touch. There were cases in the past where a Windows installation would corrupt your Linux instalation and/or filesystem due to a bug or just because Windows simply thought it was a good idea.
Usually, you would solve this problem by installing your hard drives in a multi-drive disk bay and only activate one hard drive at the time in a XOR-like configuration. I.e. you'd have your Windows drive ON and Linux OFF while using Windows, and Linux ON and Windows OFF while using Linux so that neither OS knows about the existence of the other. While inconvenient, this worked pretty for me in the past.
Unfortunately, times go on and now there's another problem to solve. TPM and other hardware components. Both Windows and Linux can use those to store information. Most importantly, TPM is commonly used to store encryption keys of all sorts, incuding hard drive keys if you use software hard drive encryption, or your passwords if you save your system keyring to the TPM.
As you'd expect, Windows doesn't like competition and it will assume that it's the only system present on the box. As the result, very commonly you'll find that Windows will either wipe or corrupt your Linux-related TPM content to restore the reign of Microsoft on your box and things will go kaboom!
Sadly, I do not currently have a good answer to this problem, and it makes dual booting a very risky operation if you value reliability.
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Install Linux on an SSD and set the BIOS to boot it over USB-3. If it isn't connected, the machine boots Windows normally.
In theory... But if one's TPM-enabled boot sequence requires toggling a setting every time, consider getting a second machine!
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As you'd expect, Windows doesn't like competition and it will assume that it's the only system present on the box. As the result, very commonly you'll find that Windows will either wipe or corrupt your Linux-related TPM content to restore the reign of Microsoft on your box and things will go kaboom!
Citation required. Not only have I not found anything about this using a google search, but finding situations where Linux uses or depends on anything TPM related is only slightly less rare.
I.e. your extreme example (if it is in fact real) is an incredible edge case that affects practically no one.
Really? (Score:2)
I have been exclusively using Linux on my gear - at work and at home. So does my wife, but she doesn't care, provided it works.
I generally use customer cast offs for work. I've had my current work PC for at least three years and it was deemed too slow by the previous owner. I do light CAD work on it as well as the usual IT stuff. All I added was a very elderly Nvidia card to get two video outputs.
I run Arch (actually) these days. I use Evolution for Exchange access and Libreoffice for the usual stuff.
Installing is easy. (Score:3)
Now get everything to work.
Buy Linux (Score:2)
Why are you trying to buy a Windows machine that supports Linux? Just buy a Linux machine.
System76 is my go-to, but there are others.
I know Dell used to sell Linux machines as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you talking about their XPS line? If I remember correctly, they still do.
Happy computing, just encouragement from here. (Score:2)
Glad to hear you are starting a new Linux box. A few years ago I set up an AMD Ryzen 4000 series Thinkpad Laptop, about a $900 proposition. Meanwhile I am running a 12 year old Gateway 5064 "gaming" Desktop machine. The Gateway has it's maximum ram plus a 500 GB SSD solid state disk. The old timer pulls 140 watts and it's Samsung LCD display has a hard time striking below 60F.
The Thinkpad pulls 40 watts and it boots faster than the Gateway. But is it $900 better? Not really. What it boils down to is the Ga
dell is easy but still limited to no ram config in (Score:2)
dell is easy but still limited to no ram config in the bios.
Just build your own and you will want to enter the bios on the 1st boot to setup your cpu / ram timings
Disqualified (Score:2)
Dell is built from non-standard PC parts. Why would you ever buy a pre-built.
options (Score:2)
2. Raspberry Pi
3. Use a VM
Like Raspberry Pi (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That would hurt sales! :) My local office supplies store has rows of laptops, side by side by the same manufacturer - one with Windows 11 and the other Chrome OS. It is expected that consumers won't notice that the hardware is 99% identical 'Intel/AMD inside' with different specs for different price points.
My advice - don't buy soldered e-waste. Right to repair legislation where you can swap in a hard drive, upgrade the RAM and replace a battery might make more sense to legislators who don't install Linux o
Re: (Score:2)
Right to repair legislation where you can swap in a hard drive, upgrade the RAM
This isn't some conspiracy, you know. SODIMM sockets are simply not electrically consistent enough to run LPDDR memory.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps consider virtualization? (Score:2)
I've known some people who were not really ready to take the plunge in tossing Windows on their PC, so as an intermediate step, enabling Hyper-V, installing VirtualBox, or even VMWare Workstation, then installing Linux in a virtual machine can be a good "gateway drug" to full Linux installs. At the minimum, it means that a botched Linux install or goofs don't affect their data.
Dual boot can be a pain. Depending one's needs, it may be better to just virtualize one OS or the other, which is a cleaner soluti
Dell users are stupid. (Score:2)
Settings / Recovery / Troubleshoot / Advanced options / See More Recovery Settings / Advanced Options / UEFI Firmware Settings / Restart to Change UEFI Firmware Settings.
Or he could hit F2 when booting, something he would have found on Dell's own website in an FAQ entitled "how to enter BIOS or UEFI" and also the top result on any Google search.
Honestly this is a Microsoft doing the Linux community a favour. If you're the type of person who is looking for the option to boot from CD in 2023 or thinks that the way to get into UEFI menu is via the windows advanced recovery settings, then Linux is probably too complicated for you and you should try again once you've learned the
Don't bother, use VMware or VirtualBox (Score:2)
The Windows for Linux, or WSL, does not work properly and never will, due to the case insensitive filesystem and lack of access to the kernel. But it's easy, and commonplace, to satisfy corporate mandates for Windows only, supported hardware for desktops and install Linux VMs for almost everything else. Richard M. Stallman may dislike it because it's not a truly "free" environment, but it's free enough for most of the work we do.
There's shops selling Linux preinstalled (Score:2)
Tuxedo computers [tuxedocomputers.com] in Germany does this, with worldwide delivery. However, their website does not speak English.
System 76 [system76.com] does this with worldwide delivery too.
Slimbook [slimbook.es] offers computers with Linux preinstalled too.
There's probably more out there.
If you ask google, it'll come up with a bunch of options of no OS installed at all. It's not all that hard.
that, precisely that... (Score:2)
USB (Score:2)
There may be no "boot from CD" in BIOS because these days you install your OS (Linux, Windows, doesn't matter) from an USB stick. And if booting from an USB stick is "all fubar magic" to you, then better don't try to install an OS (any OS) by yourself, ask a friend or a professional for help.
Aside of that, a desktop (not laptop, not 2in1, not tablet) PC has, in this day and age, issues with installing Linux? That wasn't the case even 10 years ago, 20 years ago.
Look at using a NUC (Score:2)
Wait 2024 (Score:2)
Business desktop from Lenovo, Dell, or HP (Score:2)
Better value-for-money than any piece of cheapo consumer bling.
Cirrus 7. Best Linux Desktop PCs ever. (Score:4, Interesting)
Cirrus7 [cirrus7.com].
Best Linux Desktop PCs ever. In fact, just about the best PCs generally (if high-end gaming isn't a must).
Passively cooled. Custom cases that are basically large custom heatsinks.
Good components. Compact design.
Industry grade quality, with total & complete dust-proofing options available, good for very dirty/dusty environments.
Various Linus preinstallations available for selecction,
Windows is an also-ran amoung the choice-list and not a default (cost extra Windows tax though).
Made in Germany.
Look no further, these machines kick ass.
Re: no (Score:2)
I've been using Fedora forever, But the last few revisions having a very painless install on several different laptops and desktops. You should consider trying it if Ubuntu isn't working out for you.
Re: Accessing the bios settings is a NEW roadblock (Score:2)
I think they're gripe is less that you have to go into the bios than the complexity of getting into the BIOS these days with uefi+secureboot+fastboot for short boot up times. It's not so complicated though if you just hold shift when you click restart, All you have to do is click advanced and then select use a device or enter uefi firmware settings.
Re: (Score:2)
Modern BIOS interfaces are seemingly worse than they ever were. What will it take to bring sanity to the madness? When can I have BiOS?
I think that is in response to "power users" that want to be able to tweak every switch, slider, value, and knob in the BIOS.
Others are "wannabe power users" that use it as bragging rights on whatever online forum they frequent.
Perhaps a good idea for BIOS design would be a "basic" and "advanced" menu choice on the main screen. The problem is deciding what is a "basic" BIOS feature that a "normie" might need compared to a "power user".
Re: (Score:2)
You are somehow failing to get to the boot menu in the UEFI menu, which is what you need to modify. With the amount of information you've given, its not possible to tell why not.
Find out how to get into the UEFI boot menu (get someone to help if necessary). Then you need to disable secure boot, pick your CD drive or your USB stick as the first choice boot priority, and go ahead and do the install.
If you can't see your CD or USB stick in the boot choices? Maybe there is a problem with them?
It might be a
Re: (Score:2)
It sounds like you just need to set both your boot options and order. Barring that, you're going to have to take the drive out, hook it up to some other computer, and zero out the first few sectors.
Re: (Score:2)
I think the point of Linux is to enjoy the install process and build process.
BS. According to you I have not been enjoying myself on my PC since two years ago, which was when I installed the distro I am using now. I can't say it was hugely enjoyable (not difficult, just a chore), but for a seriously un-enjoying experience try installing Windows.