Fedora 37 Now Available With GNOME 43 Desktop, Official Raspberry Pi 4 Support (phoronix.com) 79
Fedora 37 is now officially released. From a report: Fedora 37 brings the GNOME 43 desktop to Fedora Workstation 37, updated toolchain components like Glibc 2.36 and LLVM 15 and Binutils 2.38, official support for the Raspberry Pi 4, retiring 32-bit ARMv7 support, Fedora CoreOS has been promoted to a Fedora Edition, Perl 5.36, Python 3.11, RPM 4.18, LXQt 1.1, and a wealth of other updated packages.
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We're really sorry you're so bitter.
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We're really sorry you're so bitter.
I don't have time to be bitter. I'm having too much fun with BSD. Have fun holding hands with Lennart.
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Yet you have time to troll slashdot. Interesting priorities.
Shrug. Meanwhile my desktop and laptops are just tools and they are running Fedora extremely well and the tools Fedora provides me get out of my way and let me work.
Yes I've spent some quality time exploring FreeBSD. Recently did some work on a proprietary system that uses FreeBSD. I upgraded it finally to the latest version and got all the proprietary binaries patched and working. I needed to set it up to run at boot and to be restarted when
Re: Fedora is the bottom of the barrel. Gross. (Score:2)
A few lines of shell script can achieve the same thing. Perhaps you're not as l337 as you think.
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Inittab is a rather sledgehammer-like tool for such a simple need. There are better ways, and supervisord is one of those better ways, even if it is third-party.
Nice l33tism though.
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"Inittab is a rather sledgehammer-like tool for such a simple nee"
Actually init is the complete opposite to a sledgehammer. It does a few jobs very well and (re)starting processes is its main function.
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Not it can't. At least not easily and not without hacks like cron watch scripts, etc.
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Wrong. Back to unix school for you.
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Valid actions for the action field are:
"respawn: The process will be restarted whenever it terminates (e.g. getty)".
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I needed to set it up to run at boot and to be restarted when it quits (crummy proprietary app remember). FreeBSD has no facilities for that,
You could try porting systemd.
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If I want to just keep a process running I have a script I wrote that restarts a program so long as it stays running longer than a specified flap time value. Works dandy.
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Funny how so many different unix operating systems have implemented systems like SMF, launchd, SRC, etc, when there clearly was no need for any of that if only the sysadmins would get a clue.
No for my purposes, supervisord was the right choice. For one it's easy to start and stop the supervised process. I've used inittab before for such things and it makes it much harder to control the process when you do want to shut it down. I suppose you'll say to just change runlevels.
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Maybe it's "we as the Fedora community pledge to collaborate in a respectful and constructive manner, and welcome everyone willing to join us in that pledge."
Or maybe he's against:
Using welcoming and inclusive language
Being kind to others
Behaving with civility
Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
Focusing on what is best for the community
Showing empathy
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Not trolling- I do. That's conviction. If more of you twits had as much conviction as you, at least you'd be closer to respectable.
Most, however, simply still use Fedora, and just bitch about its "wokeness" at the same time, because they like stuff that works.
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I think it's cool that you've chosen an inferior solution as a way to express your discontent with the internal development process that the superior option uses.
Is your favorite color superior to all those other colors? Sounds like to you there is only one right answer. Your fact-free screed didn't do anything to boost your credibility here.
That's conviction. If more of you twits had as much conviction as you, at least you'd be closer to respectable.
Let me introduce you to something called the argument from popularity fallacy. [criticalth...cademy.net]. No, if more people, twits or not, shared my opinion, it wouldn't make one damn bit of difference.. The facts however, do help a lot, and that's why they are all ganged up over here with me.
Most, however, simply still use Fedora, and just bitch about its "wokeness" at the same time, because they like stuff that works.
Oh? Like the fact that they included Pulseaudio from the ver
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Is your favorite color superior to all those other colors? Sounds like to you there is only one right answer. Your fact-free screed didn't do anything to boost your credibility here.
I'll take False Equivalencies for $100, Alex.
Operating Systems and their paired software ecosystems are not colors.
Let me introduce you to something called the argument from popularity fallacy. [criticalth...cademy.net]. No, if more people, twits or not, shared my opinion, it wouldn't make one damn bit of difference.. The facts however, do help a lot, and that's why they are all ganged up over here with me.
I'll take Fallacy Fallacies for $100, Alex.
The point made was that in general, those who think like you are hypocrites.
Less of you being hypocrites would lend your position weight, because you would be more respectable in general. This conjecture has nothing to do with the popularity fallacy, because it's not the popularity of your OS choice that is at issue.
Oh? Like the fact that they included Pulseaudio from the very beginning even when it was so buggy it'd screw about 50% of the people who used it with bugs? They had the same shit sandwich as Ubuntu had for years. The amount of bitching about it was mountainous. Pretending like Fedora "just works" is laughable! These guys onboard GUI crapware and bad ideas as fast as they can and the distro has a history of dealing with fallout from those bad ideas. It wouldn't be so bad if RHEL didn't inherit all their bad ideas, but that's the part that really sucks, because I have customers with this shitware, now.
Pulse absolutely did suck ass. B
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pulse audio has been replaced with pipewire in fedora, which fixes many of the use cases pulse audio straight up could not handle.
On the topic of fedora, I've been using it since before the fedora branding existed. There was a definite decline in quality after around 2008 when the 'woke' mob came in. Nobody cares about politics until it's used as an excuse for breakages. The new guard didn't care about typical power user usages. Thankfully it seems many of that lot (pottering included) seem to be ducking ou
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pulse audio has been replaced with pipewire in fedora, which fixes many of the use cases pulse audio straight up could not handle.
Name one?
The move to PW had nothing to do with PA's "stability" at this juncture as far as I'm aware. It was to keep the stack moving toward full-Wayland.
On the topic of fedora, I've been using it since before the fedora branding existed. There was a definite decline in quality after around 2008 when the 'woke' mob came in. Nobody cares about politics until it's used as an excuse for breakages. The new guard didn't care about typical power user usages. Thankfully it seems many of that lot (pottering included) seem to be ducking out now and the new new guard seem to just be about getting things going in nice ways.
Eyeroll.
You're assigning standard evolution of an ecosystem to politics.
Breakages happen, because existing solutions which sucked needed to be replaced. This isn't a painless operation.
I fear the damage has been done though, the package repositories aren't as well maintained as they used to be and lack a lot of things that used to be no brainers. I still use fedora (with KDE when a gui is used), and don't mind compiling things I need for it. When the effort to keep my system running how I like it rises through lack of maintenance or breakages I'll reconsider my choice.
Fedora repos were never well maintained. It's the bleeding-edge of RH. They've always gotten rid of stuff that they didn't feel was still useful, and added stuff that wa
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Name one?
low latency professional audio. For those using JACK pulse was a major regression in functionality and stability.
Even dmix (alsa plugin for software mixing) was a better choice than pulse at its introduction, and that wasn't exactly complicated or great
The replacement of perfectly functional systems with horribly broken ones is their choice to make, but do it enough and people just ignore what you're doing and do their own thing.. like what most sane fedora users have done for a while.
bleeding edge is
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low latency professional audio. For those using JACK pulse was a major regression in functionality and stability.
I doubt that was much of a concern.
PW cannot replace JACK right now anyhow. JACK has only ever been an add-on for distributions.
PW is, however required, if you want to transport media with Wayland, which is the next transition that is nearly complete.
Even dmix (alsa plugin for software mixing) was a better choice than pulse at its introduction, and that wasn't exactly complicated or great
No, it absolutely was not.
DMIX has the same problem it always has had- ALSA is not user friendly.
There needs to be some middle layer to handle mapping of hardware functionality to UI bits.
The replacement of perfectly functional systems with horribly broken ones is their choice to make, but do it enough and people just ignore what you're doing and do their own thing.. like what most sane fedora users have done for a while.
DMIX/ALSA/OSS were not "perfectly functional" for anyone. You have r
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pipewires ability to re-route audio jack style means for a lot of jack users they can get by with pipe wire. It's not jack but 90 percent there.The developer working on pipewire is being mentored by jack developers.
Wayland is indeed why they are fixing the lack of functionality, but even if you remove Wayland pipewire is more useful than pulse
Yes, the whole point of having the latest is having the latest, which is why I should not have to compile packages myself to get the latest versions. The complaint wa
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The dark ages of Linux sound were the early pulse days. There were many years where everyone ripped out pulse and replaced it with something else for it to actually work.
when people are actively ripping out your default and replacing it with the old to fix it, the old software is not the issue
people don't go to those efforts without reason. Pulse became okay for end user use after a half decade or so, but to pretend it improves what was on its first years is indeed a set of rose tinted glasses
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pipewires ability to re-route audio jack style means for a lot of jack users they can get by with pipe wire. It's not jack but 90 percent there.The developer working on pipewire is being mentored by jack developers.
And that is not why it was adopted by distributions.
Wayland is indeed why they are fixing the lack of functionality, but even if you remove Wayland pipewire is more useful than pulse
OK, gotcha. Then we're on the same page.
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The dark ages of Linux sound were the early pulse days. There were many years where everyone ripped out pulse and replaced it with something else for it to actually work.
Nonsense. The dark ages of Linux sound extended past the introduction of pulse, for sure. But pulse came into being for a good reason. Because it used to be completely normal for sound to just not work on half of the applications on your system.
The fact that pulse, in the beginning, sucked, does not some how mean ALSA didn't also suck.
when people are actively ripping out your default and replacing it with the old to fix it, the old software is not the issue
It doesn't mean that at all. That's not remotely logical.
It means that the replacement was no better than what was being replaced- and to that, nobody is arguing.
However,
Re: Fedora is the bottom of the barrel. Gross. (Score:2)
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I like how he posts, includes examples, you ignore the ones he posts then ask for examples. Then after he gives you a whopper, you try to invalidate it and crawfish more. The Pulseaudio misadventure was totally unneeded. It was Lennart pandering and flavor-of-the-month crap. Notice it's gone now? There was already ESD, Jack, ALSA, and much more (and yes I know they don't all overlap on features, especially JACK). None of them that could shoot your system to 100% CPU quite as quickly as Pulse, but yah, there absolutely were solutions to "more than one thing wants to play sound at once." which was the 99% test case. I know because I used every one of them. If you actually ran Fedora back then and didn't have problems it was probably pure luck of the draw.
Pulse is gone because it cannot do what we need for Wayland integration to be complete. No other reason.
Nobody is going to pay your use case a single bit of attention when your argument seems to be "Lennart is the devil".
Every single application you have on a modern PW system is talking to PW through the PA socket. This is the true value of the Pulse transition- it got Linux off of the fucked up ALSA interface, which was never good for application audio interactions.
Everyone moved to it because they w
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Getting it "working" was easy. If ALSA supports your hardware, it just works.
That was never the problem.
The problem is that device access is mediated through hardware nodes with simple FS ownership permissions, and had zero possibility of any kind of application awareness.
A single application misbehaving literally brought down audio for the entire system, and there was literally nothing that could be done about it.
Mixer knobs were defined by device drivers, not by functionality, and that o
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Everyone moved to it because they were smarter than you
Not even close to "everyone". Plenty of Linux distros laughed it out of town and never suffered through the shit-years of Pulse. Plenty still do. Keep trying to polish that PulseAudio turd and have fun sucking up to/on Lennart and pals.
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Not even close to "everyone". Plenty of Linux distros laughed it out of town and never suffered through the shit-years of Pulse. Plenty still do. Keep trying to polish that PulseAudio turd and have fun sucking up to/on Lennart and pals.
Name one.
The most out-there I can think of, Arch and Slackware both use Pulse, now.
So having said that, name one that has more than 100 users.
I'm one of the loudest Lennart critics I know. I developed software professionally, so I've had to deal with toxic piles of shit like him before.
You obviously have difficulty separating the software from the person.
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NetBSD...
99% of the Applications you run use OSS compat layer, because support for NetBSD's native audio devs is nearly non-existent, and it has all the draw-backs of direct ALSA communications.
Now I see what's going on here.
You can keep your cancer to yourself. Your OS is near-useless for nearly all tasks.
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Name one.
Devuan, Arch, Slackware, Puppy Linux, and Vector Linux all allowed me to have a fully working software-mixer while blacklisting PulseAudio. No problem, no sweat, no issues at all. Fedora was pretty much useless without PA from an audio perspective since the introduction of PA. If you didn't have it, you would not get much sound at all, except from a few CLI apps you could redirect to ALSA or OSS when it was still around. I probably would have had an issue if I was a GNOME user, but I'm not that masochistic.
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You can keep your cancer to yourself. Your OS is near-useless for nearly all tasks.
NetBSD has a great in-kernel software mixer [netbsd.org] with hardware mixing controls as well. I'm listening to Pandora on my workstation right now and I can play other sounds mixed in at will. You mad because they never needed PA? Do you ever get tired of being wrong? NetBSD supports all kinds of modern audio devices and primarily Intel HDaudio is what we'll find most common nowadays. It works perfectly and allows me to remap the input/output ports as needed (analog, HDMI), just like Linux does. I'm running the laste
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Ya, the NetBSD kernel mixing system is so awesome that it's just too good for bluetooth audio without a fucking kernel-level driver to handle the codec and transport with the in-kernel mixer.
With another driver, you can even route between two audio endpoints!
Give me a fucking break, dude.
Your janky ass shit impresses no one.
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Ya, the NetBSD kernel mixing system is so awesome that it's just too good for bluetooth audio without a fucking kernel-level driver to handle the codec and transport with the in-kernel mixer.
So, since you were completely ignorant about the state of the audio features and HDAudio drivers you now want to switch topics to Bluetooth. Hehehe, I'll bet you do! It seems you do get tired of being wrong. However, I'm losing interest in slapping you around as you seem masochistic. Expect some mama jokes, soon. I'd bet you've never even installed NetBSD.
Your janky ass shit impresses no one
Are you upset that nobody is trying to impress you? Have fun in the "mainstream". I'm sure you're great fun at parties, lol.
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So, since you were completely ignorant about the state of the audio features and HDAudio drivers you now want to switch topics to Bluetooth. Hehehe, I'll bet you do! It seems you do get tired of being wrong. However, I'm losing interest in slapping you around as you seem masochistic. Expect some mama jokes, soon. I'd bet you've never even installed NetBSD.
Not at all- I'm merely pointing out another reason why trying to squeeze audio server functionality into the kernel ;)
As I said, NetBSD's sound system has all the downsides of ALSA.
Name of your mixer knobs? Right from the driver. Is it master? Master? What is BEEP?
Audio routing has to be done in-kernel- a kernel-mode driver for every sink and source, huzzah!
How the fuck do I stop firefox from playing any sound? Oh, I can't. Shit.
Why is sound on dumbfuckeryapp7 not working? Why is it trying to talk to t
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Not at all- I'm merely
Merely crawfishing after badly losing an argument you were too ignorant to be in.
As I said, NetBSD's sound system has all the downsides of ALSA.
Bullshit. NetBSD has a software mixer and ALSA does not. The software mixer is the key feature. You do miss quite a lot and are quite slow. Do you ever get tired of being wrong or just repeating the same lies about an OS you've never used after I've already provided URLs to educate you to the contrary?
No, dude. Fucking hilarious.
You sound angry, not amused. How delightful. Keep going. You're likely to have a stroke.
You came here to argue
I came here to to talk about Fedora suc
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Merely crawfishing after badly losing an argument you were too ignorant to be in.
Nope. Just making you my little NetBSD bitch.
Bullshit. NetBSD has a software mixer and ALSA does not. The software mixer is the key feature. You do miss quite a lot and are quite slow. Do you ever get tired of being wrong or just repeating the same lies about an OS you've never used after I've already provided URLs to educate you to the contrary?
Uh, of course it is, lol.
What do you think DMIX is?
Try again though, lol.
You sound angry, not amused. How delightful. Keep going. You're likely to have a stroke.
Oh, I'm very fucking amused.
You do seem like you have trouble interpreting emotions, though.
I came here to to talk about Fedora sucking wind and being used by assholes. Thanks for providing an example and a live demonstration.
Yes, you came here to talk about Fedora sucking while furiously beating away on your modern PC running an operating system that is just a short-and-curly above MS DOS in terms of productivity capacity.
I'm sure everyone is impressed by your credibility saying this. The implication being NetBSD doesn't do shit. OK, Suuuure. Keep saying that and a bunch of factually incorrect hand-waving about shit you've never touched.
NetBSD is a flaming pile of shit for anything except very niche purposes like small-footprint emb
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Oh, I'm very fucking amused.
Sounds like you are mad as hell. Checked your blood pressure? hahahaha
I have no doubt whatsoever that is true.
I have no doubt whatsoever you have no idea what you're talking about, technically. Your angry shorthand has become almost unreadable anyway. However, the emotion is clear. You were stuffed on just about every point (that wasn't unreadable gibberish) and out maneuvered on every post. You were wrong on simple shit then had to have man-pages and simple news announcements pasted over to ya. No wonder you are furious and are acting like it. B
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Sounds like you are mad as hell. Checked your blood pressure? hahahaha
U mad bro?!?
So clever, lol.
I have no doubt whatsoever you have no idea what you're talking about, technically. Your angry shorthand has become almost unreadable anyway. However, the emotion is clear. You were stuffed on just about every point (that wasn't unreadable gibberish) and out maneuvered on every post. You were wrong on simple shit then had to have man-pages and simple news announcements pasted over to ya. No wonder you are furious and are acting like it. Big day for L's for you.
More deflections.
The amount of cope flowing through you is intense. It's worth of scientific study.
Keep saying that. It's helping your credibility immensely.
Do you think my credibility with you is a concern of mine?
Anyone else reading this knows I'm right.
We all had that friend who needed to use NetBSD. Waiting for him to pipe stupid shit into a shell script to get his network working.
Y'all think you get bonus points for having to slog through shit change your wifi password.
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So clever
Nah, I try to keep it simple when dealing with assholes. I don't want to confuse you too much. The way it's going, you're liable to have a stroke at this point, anyway (please feel free).
More deflections.
Sorry you have such bad reading comprehension. Maybe a program at a local library could help. Just don't interrupt the nice lady teaching. She has a lot to offer you.
Anyone else reading this knows I'm right.
Repeat it like a catechism. Maybe at least you can manage to believe your own bullshit. However, don't hold your breath anyone else will.
We all had that friend who needed to use NetBSD. Waiting for him to pipe stupid shit into a shell script to get his network working.
NetBSD network configu
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Nah, I try to keep it simple when dealing with assholes. I don't want to confuse you too much. The way it's going, you're liable to have a stroke at this point, anyway (please feel free).
Still beating that dead horse. Still dodging. Still coping.
Sorry you have such bad reading comprehension. Maybe a program at a local library could help. Just don't interrupt the nice lady teaching. She has a lot to offer you.
Deflection.
Repeat it like a catechism. Maybe at least you can manage to believe your own bullshit. However, don't hold your breath anyone else will.
lol- are you fucking serious?
Are you so steeped in your own bullshit that you think NetBSD is.... liked?
NetBSD network configuration is done with simple text file entries, the scripts are already written in /etc/rc.d, which you would know if you'd ever actually used it. Nobody would be waiting to pipe something into a script. You sound like someone who learned "The Unix" about 15 minutes ago from reading Lennart's blog. You clearly know nothing about the Unix philosophy, it's incredible roots, or the amazing personalities involved.
I know very well how the network is configured in NetBSD.
The specific topic on this one was wireless, which back in the day, one generally employed helper scripts to deal with on NetBSD.
You're proud of being ignorant? Not surprising. That definitely follows all the other bullshit you've spouted. BTW, I can edit a wpa_supplicant.conf with my eyes closed. I specifically avoid GUI crutches that hide the internals. Networkmanager gets disabled and ripped out the minute I take over any Linux box. BTW, I feel sorry for you for a minute here. So, let me explain how easy it easy is: wpa_cli> set_network 0 psk "secretpass"
Holy fuckballs, you neckbeards have wpa_supplicant, now?! It used to be a badge of honor that you didn't.
It must suck to be so slow and ignorant without being able to bring yourself to accept your retardation. I bet that creates a lot of cognitive dissonance. I'd advise you pump up that blood pressure cuff before you reply. I'd hate to for you to have heart attack before you went on to make a further fool of yourself.
Retardation? lol
Fuck, the little BSD bitch i
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What is your definition of woke?
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But in this case, Fedoras is really broad, even among the broadness most of these have.
Guess they were covering for any future social media band wagons they want to jump on.
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Generally, I am upset I am not allowed to be openly racist anymore.
Hopefully you're joking or being sarcastic, but in case you're not...
You're definitely *allowed* to be racist, and openly so, but more and more people are no longer willing to silently put up with bullshit like that and aren't afraid to remind you that your actions, behaviors, etc... have reactions and consequences -- like being shunned.
Enjoy.
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Woke. 1: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
Woke: 2: disapproving : politically liberal (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme.
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Woke means hating people who disagree with your beliefs and banning alternative views from public debate.
It's a horrible new puritanism and it makes the world a nastier place.
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Using welcoming and inclusive language
So, if I accidentally say "he" instead of "she" for some transvestite user I've never seen, that would be a violation. Also, what if one of the admins simply decided that some purely technical post wasn't inclusive enough? The violator would get the boot without any review or adjudication. Despite the claim that both parties will be contacted in a dispute, there is zero transparency to that. They can simply say it happened after one individual give
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who introduced us to Systemd, Pulseaudio, and other Lennart-ware and then got them force-fed into RHEL
Tell us you don't know how Linux distributions are interlinked without telling us you don't know how Linux distributions are interlinked.
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Tell us you don't know how Linux distributions are interlinked without telling us you don't know how Linux distributions are interlinked.
Here [fedoraproject.org] is the Fedora statement explaining exactly how they are interlinked exactly the way I described. Got any other lies you'd like more or less instantly dispelled like a fart into a jet engine?
Re: Fedora is the bottom of the barrel. Gross. (Score:2)
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Another little incel snowflake triggered by a CoC. Excellent!
PDS (Poettering derangement syndrome) as well? Even better!
This "woke lib" enjoys your delicious salty tears.
Re:Raspberry Pi 4 support (Score:4, Informative)
If ARM cared about defining a platform, then we could have Fedora ARM that installed on any Arm board that meets the basic requirements. Orange Pis are quite plentiful now, but sadly Fedora Pi won't boot on them because of non-standard boot systems, hardware trees, hardware blobs, etc.
As it stands now, if you really want Linux in a Pi-like form factor, it's probably worth it to spend a bit more money and get an O-Droid x86 SBC that can run normal Fedora, Debian, or Ubuntu rather than muck about with Armbian forks. Especially if you just want some micro servers. I really want to love ARM. I really do. But I've all but given up on it for many use cases.
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The problem is that SoC designers are free to ignore them.
UEFI for Arm has been a thing for a long time now, but only server Arm parts are using it.
This kind of makes sense, in a way, because all these Arm boards we're playing with are embedded offerings. We're using them as servers or desktops, but really- that's not what Broadcom had in mind, at ll.
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There is a UEFI port for Raspberry Pi as well. I've been using that to run the generic Fedora ARM image on a Pi4.
Wish this was more common.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 support (Score:2)
Who cares? (Score:2)
Seriously, I'm supposed to get excited over support for a platform that is pretty much impossible to obtain, unless you're willing to pay a scalper more than twice the normal price?