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Microsoft Windows Linux

The Best Part of Windows 11 Is Its Linux, Argues Ars Technica (arstechnica.com) 148

Posted by EditorDavid from the superior-subsystems dept.
The best part of Windows 11 is Linux, argues Ars Technica: For years now, Windows 10's Windows Subsystem for Linux has been making life easier for developers, sysadmins, and hobbyists who have one foot in the Windows world and one foot in the Linux world. But WSL, handy as it is, has been hobbled by several things it could not do. Installing WSL has never been as easy as it should be — and getting graphical apps to work has historically been possible but also a pain in the butt that required some fairly obscure third-party software. Windows 11 finally fixes both of those problems. The Windows Subsystem for Linux isn't perfect on Windows 11, but it's a huge improvement over what came before.

Microsoft has traditionally made installing WSL more of a hassle than it should be, but the company finally got the process right in Windows 10 build 2004. Just open an elevated Command prompt (start --> type cmd --> click Run as Administrator), type wsl --install at the prompt, and you're good to go. Windows 11, thankfully, carries this process forward unchanged. A simple wsl --install with no further arguments gets you Hyper-V and the other underpinnings of WSL, along with the current version of Ubuntu. If you aren't an Ubuntu fan, you can see what other easily installable distributions are available with the command wsl --list --online. If you decide you'd prefer a different distro, you can install it instead with — for example — wsl --install -d openSUSE-42. If you're not sure which distribution you prefer, don't fret. You can install as many as you like, simply by repeating wsl --list --online to enumerate your options and wsl --install -d distroname to install whichever you like. Installing a second distribution doesn't uninstall the first; it creates a separate environment, independent of any others. You can run as many of these installed environments as you like simultaneously, without fear of one messing up another.

In addition to easy installation, WSL on Windows 11 brings support for both graphics and audio in WSL apps. This isn't exactly a first — Microsoft debuted WSLg in April, with Windows 10 Insider Build 21364. But Windows 11 is the first production Windows build with WSLg support. If this is your first time hearing of WSLg, the short version is simple: you can install GUI apps — for example, Firefox — from your Ubuntu (or other distro) command line, and they'll work as expected, including sound. When I installed WSLg on Windows 11 on the Framework laptop, running firefox from the Ubuntu terminal popped up the iconic browser automatically. Heading to YouTube in it worked perfectly, too, with neither frame drops in the video nor glitches in the audio....

[T]here is one obvious "killer app" for WSLg that has us excited — and that's virt-manager, the RedHat-originated virtualization management tool. virt-manager is a simple tool that streamlines the creation, management, and operation of virtual machines using the Linux Kernel Virtual Machine... virt-manager never got a Windows port and seems unlikely to. But it runs under WSLg like a champ.
They reported a few problems, like when running GNOME's Software Center app (and the GNOME shell desktop environment).

But "If you're already a Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) user, Windows 11 offers an enormously improved experience compared to what you're accustomed to from Windows 10. It installs more easily, makes more functionality available, and offers better desktop integration than older workarounds such as running MobaXTerm's X11 server."
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The Best Part of Windows 11 Is Its Linux, Argues Ars Technica More

The Best Part of Windows 11 Is Its Linux, Argues Ars Technica

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  • Pro Tip (Score:5, Insightful)

    by divide overflow ( 599608 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @03:47AM (#61876937)
    You can actually install your Linux distribution directly and skip the Windows install.
    It's quicker AND you get even better security.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by serviscope_minor ( 664417 )

      You also get a better gui.

      FVWM 4 lyfe

    • Re:Pro Tip (Score:5, Insightful)

      by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @05:23AM (#61877069)
      Used to dual boot. Realised what a pain in the arse Windows is (deliberately) designed to be (Seems sales & marketing department get the last word on what 'features' get included). At that time, the average time to install & configure Windows on a mid-range laptop was the best part of a day but with lots of interruptions the following couple of days. Start-up times were slow. As many here know, Linux installs, configuration & start-up are like a breath of fresh air after Windows. I migrated everything (incl. multimedia editing) I do to FOSS apps (so they run on Linux too), wiped Windows, installed Linux only & then didn't look back. I also don't have Windows constantly distracting me by tell me what it's just been doing like a needy toddler or tracking me & showing me ads. Linux is an OS for grown ups who have work to get done.

      • Oh dear. Nanny Microsoft won't like that. They'll be around later to rectify your mistake [only joking]

        Microsoft is really trying to lock everyone in before they spring the weekly subscription on the world. They'll have most of you by the short and curlies leaving you with no choice but to start paying up.

        I saw the writing on the wall back in 2016 when W10 was let loose. I don't run Windows now and TBH, I don't miss it a bit.

      • Used to dual boot. Realised what a pain in the arse Windows is (deliberately) designed to be (Seems sales & marketing department get the last word on what 'features' get included). At that time, the average time to install & configure Windows on a mid-range laptop was the best part of a day but with lots of interruptions the following couple of days.

        These days it's abous 20 minutes. Put in a USB stick, power on, choose your language/keyboard.

        Just don't forget to skip the network setup during installation so it doesn't force you to create a Microsoft account. Set up the network afterwards.

        After it installs and boots for the first time you just edit the hosts file to redirect "bing.com" to 127.0.0.1, install a different web browser instead of Edge and you're golden. The amount of drivers it can find/install these days is impressive. Just about everythi

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dryeo ( 100693 )

          Should direct bing.com to 0.0.0.0 to avoid the timeout. Does Windows itself use the hosts file?

    • The best part of Windows always ever was Linux, even back in the day of Widows 95, with no WSL support whatsoever :-)

    • A second laptop for engineering use running Linux is not really expensive to an enterprise and far more satisfactory to the user.

      • Run your Linux Distribution naively for engineering work, and make Windows run as a virtual machine by using VMware Workstation Pro. That is what I do on my works laptop, I have to use Windows Outlook due to Corporate policy. Microsoft do have a Linux version of their MS Teams application which I use on Fedora.

        • Run your Linux Distribution naively ... and make Windows run as a virtual machine by using VMware Workstation Pro.

          Windows 10 runs fine for me using KVM/QEMU ...

          Don't know about Windows 11, my systems can't support it -- CPUs too old and no TPM, but they work great with Win10 and Linux -- but I don't think I care; Win10 will probably be my last Windows version before I make the permanent switch to Linux (or BSD).

          • At least the TPM is easy to solve. There's a software TPM for linux (swtpm) that supports the v2.0 functionality. Run it before starting the qemu Windows 11 VM with the qemu command-line linking to the swtpm interface and your VM has a TPM v2.0 device that Windows 11 is happy with. I've been using it for a few months with the Windows 11 development versions in VMs on openSUSE linux. After the Windows 11 public release I upgraded a Windows 10 Pro VM that has UEFI boot and a v2.0 TPM to Windows 11 using the M

            • Thanks for the info. I knew that QEMU supported a pass-through TPM device, but didn't know about the software option. I've selected specific CPUs for a VM before, so I could run them on different systems (one native and one similar) but didn't know about a clock problem on startup...

              Like you, I actually only "need" Windows for a few things -- for me, that I've been too lazy to migrate over to Linux. I have a few Office files and a LOT of Publisher files (greeting cards) that look to be problematic to mig

            • Too much fuss - Win 11 installs on unsupported hardware without issue - it will advise you your install is unsupported, and ask if you want to proceed.

        • Windows 10 runs like a geriatric dog under my VM on macOS. Horrendous performance, enough so that you can tell that it's working behind the scenes as the fan is blowing full blast even if you're not using Windows at the time. The other way around though I suspect Linux under a VM will run circles around Windows 11, so just keep the W11 around for the mandatory worst-in-class enterprise apps from Microsoft.

      • Exactly. Windows brings nothing to the table, it's just an attempt to lock in a generation of developers by convincing they have to use visual studio.

        And frankly, wsl still sucks compared Linux on bare iron. Christ I can go pick up a few raspberry pis and get a better and more reliable experience

    • It's quicker AND you get even better security.

      [Citation needed] The biggest factor affecting security is the same for Linux and Windows: The user.

      • Re:Pro Tip (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Immerman ( 2627577 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:33PM (#61878337)

        Depends what exactly you're protecting against. As I recall, the overwhelming majority or computer attacks are fully automated, and the overwhelming majority of those specifically target Windows - no doubt due to its fairly homogeneous ubiquity and the fact that most Windows users are completely oblivious to security concerns, while Linux is a very fragmented install base, with most Linux boxes being part of corporate internet infrastructure with security managed by professionals. As I recall it actually saw the majority of human-managed attacks - but human attacks are expensive, so unless someone has reason to target you specifically, you don't really need to worry about them.

        In the face of that - even if the quality of out-of-the-box security were exactly the same on both platforms (a claim I would want some compelling evidence for), the real-world security of Linux is vastly greater. In practical terms "nobody tries to attack me" has exactly the same effect as "my security is so good nobody can breach it". At least so long as no-one of skill is interested in you specifically.

        Moreover, I seem to recall that in the big annual hacking competitions, Windows tends to get completely compromised around 2-10x faster than Linux. And while that's not a direct measure of the actual security of the software, it's probably about as close as is realistically possible.

        • As I recall, the overwhelming majority or computer attacks are fully automated, and the overwhelming majority of those specifically target Windows

          And also nowadays, Android. Pick the biggest target, for personal computing that's Windows and Android.

        • As I recall, the overwhelming majority or computer attacks are fully automated

          Counting the number of attacks goes counter to goal since the overwhelming majority of attacks amount to nothing. The overwhelming majority of *successful* attacks rely on user intervention.

          In practical terms "nobody tries to attack me" has exactly the same effect as "my security is so good nobody can breach it".

          Except that people do try and attack you. That myth that Linux is ignored is just that (see the most prominent of most recent ransomware and the gang behind it). Also even if it weren't a myth you're not doing your own security any favours by promoting the unwashed masses adopt Linux.

          Moreover, I seem to recall that in the big annual hacking competitions, Windows tends to get completely compromised around 2-10x faster than Linux.

          Of course, it's a bigger target with

        • Linux is a very fragmented install base, with most Linux boxes being part of corporate internet infrastructure with security managed by professionals.

          Citation for the professional management of "most Linux boxes" please?

          The low market share of Linux is the pest virus protection feature of Linux.

  • Only one way to improve on that (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tough Love ( 215404 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @03:57AM (#61876949)

    Only one way to improve on that. Run Windows in a vm under Linux. Result: happiness.

    • Even better: put Wndows on VM, put the VM on a thumbdrive, then put the thumbdrive under a bus, then burn the bus.

      Finally, nuke the entire site from orbit.

  • The article is confusing. What is the advantage compared to just running whatever I need directly in Linux?

    • I think the notion is:

      I typically manage windows boxes, such as the fleet of user desktops in the enterprise, but occasionally need to administer some *nix boxes in the network also (such as remote SAN equipment, et al)--- And PuTTY is a bit cumbersome. Being able to do shell scripting and stuff is useful when I need to tell that shit to reboot, or restart its iSCSI chain.

      Compared to the more linux-centric admin folk:

      I typically manage *nix boxes, such as switches, routers, NAS equipment, and border gatewa

      • I'd say: The (very very expensive) error here is, that those desktops are Windows in the first place. As well as that that Exchange server exists. :)

    • Because CygWin is not commercially supported. Some businesses having someone responsible for keeping critical tools working to be vital.especially when another tool such ad a security tool breaks it.

      • Cygwin is pretty great though. If WSL on Windows 11 is better than cygwin I will use it, but I doubt it is. I would love to be proven wrong.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by crispi ( 131688 )

          Cygwin doesn't need Admin privileged to install.
          (setup-x64.exe -B)

          And that's an end of it.

          • What? Where did I mention admin privilege?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by caseih ( 160668 )

              He was simply confirming that cygwin can be a better solution than wsl. The wsl apparently requires admin access to install, whereas cygwin does not.

              I've also used cygwin for many years, mostly to script and automate windows, often from remote machines via ssh.

      • Yes, Linux shops don't like supporting treasonous pieces of software that sleep with the enemy. That applies to WSL aswell. Don't expect our support with that setup. At best, it will be way overpriced.

        • All the big distros are working with MS on WSL so I wonder who you're talking about honestly.

          • Alpine, Kali, Ubuntu, and Debian are not "every major distribution". Those are the 4 listed at the Microsoft Store as supported. There's a complete lack of commercially supported Linux distributions there, especially distributions like SuSE and Red Hat which have their own commercial support from Oracle or AutoCad.

      • I don't think WSL is CygWin, or are you saying I should run CygWin in WINE to get a more Windows-like user experience? What's better about WSL in a Windows VM than just running the Linux stuff directly on the native OS. It could access the Windows VM if necessary.

        • Cygwin is exactly what it's name says it is:

          Minimalist Cyngus for Windows. It's a posix distro for windows.

          It has been around a very long time. (since the win9x days at least!) Its primary reason for existing was because the Posix subsystem for windows has been garbage/unmaintained for at least 4 windows releases, and there was some need for *nix support on windows boxes. (which Microsoft spent at least 20 years trying OH SO HARD to ignore.) Much like WSL, it is a full deployment package that gives an en

          • Back in the day I needed to get a radius server running on a Win2k server. It took a bit of finagling in the Makefile to get it to compile, along with using a utility so the executable would run as a service, but I had a functioning radius server on the windows box in about an hour. The other option was some rather expensive native windows radius servers. Needless to say I was pretty damned impressed by cygwin

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by habig ( 12787 )

      The article is confusing. What is the advantage compared to just running whatever I need directly in Linux?

      my use case - students need to be doing stuff in linux, but they're not geeks, have windows laptops, and aren't about to go blow away their whole computing life for the work they need to do for a class or a small research project.

      Current WSL involves a lot of fiddling which is difficult for that target audience, because adding an X-server never seems to go the same way twice for two different students a semester apart, gotta find the current version, get env variables set, remember to run the X-server, etc.

  • "The best part of Windows 11 is its Linux", not
    "The best part of Windows 11 is it's Linux".

    Apostrophes matter.

    • I thought it was mostly BSD.
      Or is that just the parts that we can't check? :D

      [That's the reason I prefer the GPL3 over the BSD licenses, even though the latter definitely are more free: The "more free" part applies to the freedom of *somebody else* to abuse *you*. Like use your code but give nothing back. And people who support it always believe they somehow will be that somebody else with the power. All of them. At the same time. (Just like 90% think they're among the smarter 50% of people.)
      While GPL is li

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrKaos ( 858439 )

      "The best part of Windows 11 is its Linux", not "The best part of Windows 11 is it's Linux".

      Apostrophes matter.

      They're talking about Windows 12.

    • "The best part of Linux is it's not Windows 11”

      Ahm, yes, apostrophes, and the ordering of words. And proper negation. And the primary OS, that also matters :-p

  • Explain to me how X-server software is "obscure???"

  • Microsoft doesn't give WSL proper network access (Score:5, Informative)

    by Generic User Account ( 6782004 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @06:01AM (#61877115)

    Next time start with that. You can leave out the "killer-app" bull to make room.

  • Running Linux under MS Windows means that Microsoft can get to snoop any password that is typed and potentially pass it on to the NSA. Now that an account registered with Microsoft is mandatory the NSA have a better idea of what those passwords might be for.

    MS Windows under Linux is much safer.

  • But... (Score:3)

    by countach ( 534280 ) on Sunday October 10, 2021 @06:37AM (#61877157)

    Getting better, but it's still crap. You can't mount any old drive in WSl, only NTFS (aka no Paragon file system drivers, no Google drive drivers), you can't mount ext4 natively (though I understand that's in beta now)... and I don't think you can run Gnome and other desktop environents can you? You can run individual apps, but not a window managed environment. Every time I use WSL, I'm thinking, this is neat and all, impressive, but a ways to go before I can take it seriously.

  • The Best Part of Windows 11 Is Its Linux, and the best part of Linux is it's not Windows.
  • As someone who spends 8 hours a day using vscode with WSL I'd love native support for running multiple copies of the same image. Systemd support would be cool, but I feel mentioning that might get me in trouble.

  • So, I briefly attempted to use windows on the metal and WSL / Hyper-V etc to stack VMs on for "real work"

    I need to run Windows, Linux and macOS VMs for mobile development environments

    My pain point was that nested VMs inside all expect to run nested items (like Docker) using HAXM or QEMU etc, which did not seem possible as soon as you even attempt WSL.

    As a concrete example, let's say you need to spin up a macOS VM (which is typically done with e.g. OSX-KVM) and that's QEMU so now that's working with Docker a

  • In all likelihood, MS has seen the same light as Crapple, and intends to become Unix rather than keep patching their kludged up I roll my own system.

  • The screenshots I've seen of Windows 11 remind me of something designed by a girl about to go through puberty. Useless, annoying items front and center, colors all over the place, lack of coherence, and on the whole, pretty much unusable.

    But that's what the programmers at Microsoft get paid for. Whatever it takes to justify their existence even if it means making something more difficult to use.

  • why would you want that bloated surveillance suite on top of your operating system?

    it just SUCKS that we can't run a lot of line of business apps which is forcing us to keep windows to ensure 100% compatibility.

  • If you're forced to use Windows for *reasons*, why use an abortion like WSL, when you can either use Virtualbox, if you like Oracle (shudder) or, I suspect, you could use the built-in HyperV (I *assume* Win11Pro will have HyperV... Ya never know with MS) and run your distro of choice as a full VM.. I do the opposite, I use Linux and run a heavily castrated Win10 as a VM for the things I need to run that Wine upchucks over.

  • I've used Linux for engineering applications, such as Salome Mecha, Code Aster, Saturne, OpenFoam, Paraview, and others. I wouldn't want to lose either the processing resourced--nor could I afford the memory waste by running those applications in a hybridized mode.

  • Desperately seeking Susan. Or Gloria. Or Fred. Or Cruella de Vil. Or some reason to consider using Windows 11.

    Another juicy target with nary a Funny to its discussion.

    Well, at least the FP didn't stink. But I think it was more Funny than Insightful. Your moderators may differ. Obviously.

  • But all of the pandering to the lowest common denominator, largely due to popular culture telling people what they 'want' has stolen the spotlight.

      This is not at all limited to Windows, as this has infected every major (consumer) OS now in use.

  • The day Microsoft has a viable fully POSIX compliant environment for Windows is the day that macOS will die, so please for the love of god, please port the macOS graphical interface and developer tools to run on top of a Linux kernel with GNU Sys V style userland instead of the current Mach kernel with BSD style userland. I would really appreciate not having to try to remember two separate dialects of the POSIX standard.

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