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Open Source Linux Apple

Linux For Apple Silicon Macs Gets Closer To Reality (substack.com) 53

Posted by EditorDavid from the important-ports dept.
"Asahi Linux for Apple M1 Macs is moving closer to reality," writes Slashdot reader TroysBucket.

An Asahi developer posted a detailed status update on Twitter. Linux enthusiast Bryan Lunduke offers this succinct summary:

- The Asahi Linux team has Linux (Debian, in this case) booting and usable with network support.

- They now have (very early) display drivers which "take full advantage of the display hardware."

- They have at least two base distributions — both Arch and Debian — working and functional (to some extent).

They also have, according to their latest update, "boot picker" support so that you can manually select which OS / Drive to boot from on the M1 Macs... I, for one, can't wait to see the first public, functional release of Asahi Linux — and will be following it extremely closely.
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Linux For Apple Silicon Macs Gets Closer To Reality More

Linux For Apple Silicon Macs Gets Closer To Reality

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  • Okay (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @08:54AM (#61787887)
    This is pretty cool.

    But did anyone else read that as "Boot Licker" support?

    Seriously, welcome to the M1 Linux boot licker support..

  • But I have a measley 128gb ssd that is soldered onto the board, it barely fit my mac os files

  • Who's going to use it? (Score:3)

    by HanzoSpam ( 713251 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @09:23AM (#61787947)

    I have a hard time believing there are many people who buy Apple hardware specifically to run Linux. It's too easy to get something cheaper that's probably better suited.

    • Re:Who's going to use it? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ToddDTaft ( 170931 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @09:37AM (#61787991)

      I have a hard time believing there are many people who buy Apple hardware specifically to run Linux. It's too easy to get something cheaper that's probably better suited.

      You're probably right that not many people would buy Apple hardware to run a single-boot Linux system, but I could see using it as a dual-boot system or to extend the useful life of Apple hardware by installing a Linux distribution once the system is too old to run current versions of MacOS.

    • I'm not currently interested in this, but I appreciate their (monumental) effort.

      I've got an M1 MacAir and fairly happy using MacOS on it. But I know that at some point in the future Apple will drop support for the hardware and I'll be looking for a Linux fallback.

      The sooner the heavy lifting gets done, the sooner full support for my Macbook Air will be in place. If it takes a few years, so be it. Apple generally supports the hardware for 5+ years.

    • I would, if Linux ran with full support on it. I've used Linux on various Mac laptops, from Air to Pro, and it's excellent hardware for the OS. The M1 has power where I need it for a laptop system. It makes the correct trade offs for my needs. I would go for one in a heartbeat.

      • I would, if Linux ran with full support on it. I've used Linux on various Mac laptops, from Air to Pro, and it's excellent hardware for the OS.

        Excellent hardware?

        No.

        I have a recent macbook pro for work, upgraded from the last gen because like half of the macbook pros of that gen the dreadful butterfly keyboard broke. At lest the new one has a half way functional keyboard. But it's not very good.

        If you plug too much stuff in on the wrong sides, the USB-C chips overheat. You can't drive two 4k monitors and h

    • I have a hard time believing there are many people who buy Apple hardware specifically to run Linux. It's too easy to get something cheaper that's probably better suited.

      I don't have a hard time believing people will buy hardware specifically for running Linux. Benchmarks on the Apple M1 systems shows a very impressive advantage over Intel systems. There's ARM based laptops and tablets not made by Apple out there with ARM based CPUs but none near as powerful as what Apple offers.

      If you don't see it then maybe you need to look closer.

    • I have a hard time believing there are many people who buy Apple hardware specifically to run Linux. It's too easy to get something cheaper that's probably better suited.

      Well, Linus Torvalds did just that a number of years ago, using an 11" MacBook Air. In fact it seems he would use the M1 Macs for Linux too, if all the necessary driver support was there, but indicates this may be a challenge if Apple doesn't help out here:

      https://www.zdnet.com/article/... [zdnet.com]

    • Architecturally, people are interested in ARM64. The problem is that there hasn't been commodity Linux-specific hardware that offers a compelling advantage over Intel/AMD.

      i.e. Raspberry Pi improves with every generation and there are single board computers with Amlogic, Allwinner and Rockchip but none are performant enough to replace one's primary x86 machine- while the Google-Qualcomm alliance in Android hasn't proven great for GNU/Linux due to OEMs' reluctance to mainline their kernel forks to Linus upstr

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by quenda ( 644621 )

      I have a hard time believing there are many people who buy Apple hardware specifically to run Linux.

      Many years back, Apple laptops were extremely popular with Linux users. Believe it or not they were considered excellent value on a purely hardware basis back then. If by some miracle, Apple decided to provide driver support for their silicon, it could happen again.

    • To someone making tech money a thousand or several for a tool they'll use isn't much at all. (Many mechanics making far less spend far more on their tools. I'm a mechanic.)

      I've zero personal interest in Apple hardware, preferring desktop replacement notebooks like my two P52 where I can have more RAM and multiple hdds, but many Apple users like what they sell and would like Linux on the same hardware.

      A thousand dollars or several is cheap for someone making tech money (Bubba the mechanic down the street oft

  • One question - why? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by filesiteguy ( 695431 ) <perfectreign@gmail.com> on Sunday September 12, 2021 @12:01PM (#61788287)
    I love Linux and use it daily on at least one PC. But I recently bought an Apple laptop for work. It is UNIX. I can add repositories, run bash command lines, I can compile my own apps.

    Why would I want Linux?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by jeremyp ( 130771 )

      I can think of a couple of reasons.

      1. you're ideologically opposed to non free software.

      2. Your laptop is old and no longer supported by Apple.

      3. You develop software that's Linux specific e.g. systemd.

      For the last one, I'd normally say "use virtualisation", but I don't think there's an M1 laptop with enough RAM to do that currently.

      • but I don't think there's an M1 laptop with enough RAM to do that currently.
        The smallest ones are 8GB if I'm not mistaken.
        So: yes, they have enough RAM. Or do you plan to nest VMs inside of VMs indefinitely deep?

      • Don't forget the price. My wife bought an Acer laptop (Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB disk, no Windoze) for 225 euros some years ago. It runs Linux (SuSE) perfectly. To take it to the extreme, I ran Linux (Ubuntu Mate) in Raspberry PI 2B. It cost about 60 euros without the monitor. I couldn't be happier with it. I used web mail, I browsed the internet, I watched utube. I ran Office applications, CAD, finite elements analysis. All my programs run without any issue after a recompilation.

        The real question is, why

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by caseih ( 160668 )

      Mainly because I constantly find things about the macOS UI that annoy me and hinder me, despite the supposed consistency macOS tries to bring. I've never liked the terminal emulators on macOS either. Partly a matter of how macOS keyboard conventions (no home and end for example) conflict with how I use the terminal. And then there's the focus policies, especially how MacOS used to eat mouse clicks when focusing on a different app. Not sure if it still does that now, but it annoyed me for years.

      I'm far mo

      • Mainly because I constantly find things about the macOS UI that annoy me and hinder me, despite the supposed consistency macOS tries to bring. I've never liked the terminal emulators on macOS either. Partly a matter of how macOS keyboard conventions (no home and end for example) conflict with how I use the terminal. And then there's the focus policies, especially how MacOS used to eat mouse clicks when focusing on a different app. Not sure if it still does that now, but it annoyed me for years.

        I'm far more comfortable and productive on my Fedora box with the Mate Desktop.

        macOS has ALWAYS had Home & End - learn to use the Fn key! Focus has always been the BEST (in my opinion) on macOS. You can even pass-thru a mouse click to an app that doesn't have focus, by holding the CMD key (been this way in all macOS/OS X versions). I've NEVER had it eat mouse clicks. Windows & Linux are just the opposite, in my opinion - I never know if a mouse click in another app not in focus will be "eaten" or work/pass-thru to the app when I click it. Maybe you should learn some &

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by caseih ( 160668 )

          Sorry, but the fn keys don't work in the terminal. bash does not normally recognize them.

          I had forgotten about the pass through click feature. That is indeed nice, but still doesn't remove the frustration.

          In Windows and Linux a click on another window is *always* passed through to the app, and depending on the raise policy, will focus and possibly raise the window. This is very consistent. Windows never eats clicks and makes them disappear like mac does.

          Look, it's a matter of personal preference. To tel

          • My reply wasn't personal. It was a rebutal when someone posts inaccurate information. Fn-Left Arrow does send "Home", even in terminal. Fn-Right Arrow sends End, also. By default, in the built-in terminal app, the Home & End keys are used to scroll the view to the top line in the terminal or the bottom line in the terminal. They could be reassigned to whatever you wanted in BASH (remove them as shortcuts for the terminal.) And my personal experience is that Windows inconsistently passes clicks thr

      • I agree with @caseih. I've used MacOS off and on for over 10 years but only rarely had to use one full-time until recently. Mostly I'm okay but there are constant annoyances.
        1. I'm used to Linux and so the command-C and command-V dance is annoying. Why not just select, paste with middle-click?
        2. The middle-click to push a window back is probably my biggest pet peeve. There is no comparable feature in MacOS. None. Cycling through windows to get the same effect is not the same--it's a lame workaround.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by caseih ( 160668 )

          Well said.

          To be fair, Gnome developers are desperately trying to eliminate all the features we use like middle click paste. They aren't friendly or discoverable to "new users," whoever they are. Gnome also pretty much eliminates any distinction between active and non-active windows. I've given up on Gnome and now use Mate or Cinnamon. KDE is still a good option, but you need to spend time tweaking it (as usual) to get what you want.

          The mac model with a single menubar isn't completely broken, it's just diff

    • Like the other guy said, "Your laptop is old and no longer supported by Apple."

      It's probably less an issue for laptops, but Apple's 5 years of support is inadequate for a desktop. I have a 2009 mini that still works fine, but the last supported OS was El Capitan, and that support ended in 2018.

      Mint Linux 19.3 works fine on it, and is supported until 2023. I could even try 20 point whatever, but I'm not sure how a core 2 duo will do on a 5 point something kernel.

      Apple's least green policy is early abandonme

      • Ahh! So you want security updates. Yep. I'm still pissed that most major OS vendors have such a short end-of-life for their products. Nevermind that we still have a mission-critical application running on a 1988 IBM server. Fortunately, it is on an isolated network, but it amazes me that we haven't been able to find a suitable replacement.

      • Like the other guy said, "Your laptop is old and no longer supported by Apple."

        It's probably less an issue for laptops, but Apple's 5 years of support is inadequate for a desktop. I have a 2009 mini that still works fine, but the last supported OS was El Capitan, and that support ended in 2018.

        Mint Linux 19.3 works fine on it, and is supported until 2023. I could even try 20 point whatever, but I'm not sure how a core 2 duo will do on a 5 point something kernel.

        Apple's least green policy is early abandonment of still useful hardware. I can see cutting off the OS versions as the the feature creep outruns the hardware, but a few more years of security updates wouldn't bankrupt them.

        Ah - so you contradict yourself and show you are a lier, "Apple's 5 years of support is inadequate for a desktop. I have a 2009 mini that still works fine, but the last supported OS was El Capitan, and that support ended in 2018." By my count, that's 9 years of support, right (2009 thru 2018)?

        • I guess it's a matter of what you call support. El Capitan came out in 2015, and was abandoned in 2018 after one year of life and two years of security updates.

          I also have a 2012 model mini that was sold until 2014. The last supported OS on that is Catalina, which came out in 2019. So the last non-security bug fix was in 2020, and next year the security updates stop.

          After 5 years Apple puts a PC on the "Vintage" list which means no more hardware repairs (if it dies, it's off to Ebay for parts, if you are lu

    • I love Linux and use it daily on at least one PC. But I recently bought an Apple laptop for work. It is UNIX. I can add repositories, run bash command lines, I can compile my own apps.

      Why would I want Linux?

      You may not want Linux, but there are reasons for wanting it. One would be simulating and supporting deployment environment, or using applications that are Linux only.

      Many production servers are running Linux, so being able to ensure your software runs correctly in a near identical environment would be useful. Certainly there is a good chance you would still need to run an x86 emulated Docker container, but with some new server hardware being ARM based that wouldn't be an issue there.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Orlando ( 12257 )

      Why would I want Linux?

      You're new here aren't you?

  • Why would I want this? (Score:4, Informative)

    by RogueWarrior65 ( 678876 ) on Sunday September 12, 2021 @12:14PM (#61788339)

    OSX is essentially Linux already and has a far better user experience than any of the Linux desktop flavors. If you absolutely need that, virtualize it.

    • OSX is essentially Linux already and has a far better user experience than any of the Linux desktop flavors. If you absolutely need that, virtualize it.

      macOS X and Linux only share the aspect that they have a Unix-like flavour, with a number of libraries and applications benefiting from that. Otherwise when it comes to the kernel they couldn't be more different. The macOS Kernel is known a XNU. I did try looking a good comparison of both the kernels, but you'll need to start with these:

      - https://www.linuxandubuntu.com... [linuxandubuntu.com]
      - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      • OSX is essentially Linux already and has a far better user experience than any of the Linux desktop flavors. If you absolutely need that, virtualize it.

        macOS X and Linux only share the aspect that they have a Unix-like flavour, with a number of libraries and applications benefiting from that. Otherwise when it comes to the kernel they couldn't be more different. The macOS Kernel is known a XNU. I did try looking a good comparison of both the kernels, but you'll need to start with these:

        - https://www.linuxandubuntu.com... [linuxandubuntu.com] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        macOS is not "Unix-like". macOS is certified as UNIX. Linux is not. https://www.opengroup.org/open... [opengroup.org]

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          macOS is certified as UNIX. Linux is not.

          Which means jack shit.

          Now that Linux runs most of the world apart from the desktop, Linux is the standard now, not 'paid for UNIX certification' MacOS.

    • "better user experience" depends on preference. Honest questions: Can you resize a window to any side/corner, even without going exactly to the corner or side of the window? Move a window with the mouse anywhere inside the window? Move a window without it jumping to the front/out of order?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      > far better user experience than any of the Linux desktop flavors

      That's a HIGHLY subjective claim that is simply not true in my case.
      For me part of the user experience is the ridiculous and unjustifiable cost of Apple hardware, and also the lack of ability to access a ton of free and opensource software from a package manager like you can with Debian.
      Also I really don't feel like I'm missing out on anything with Ubuntu, other than the hole in my bank account, and looking like you're just another image c

  • Nothing. If you're buying Apple hardware to run Linux in it, you're in the wrong path to start with. All this time and energy could be better spent contributing to improvement of the Linux desktop(s), the only thing that stops Linux from becoming more popular.
    • It is not a wrong path at all, once the installation is smoothed out. The M1 packs a lot of processing power with long battery life in a semi affordable machine. And, within the next month or so we should see the release of M1X / M2 machines which, if rumours are correct, may well more than double M1 performance.
      • Agreed. I still think there are better-integrated alternatives out there (e.g. System 76) than buying an Apple machine to run Linux on it.

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