Linus Torvalds Isn't Worried About Microsoft Taking Over Linux (zdnet.com) 141
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: At the 2019 Linux Plumbers Conference, I talked to Linus Torvalds and several other of the Linux kernel's top programmers. They universally agreed Microsoft wants to control Linux, but they're not worried about it. That's because Linux, by its very nature and its GPL2 open-source licensing, can't be controlled by any single third-party. Torvalds said: "The whole anti-Microsoft thing was sometimes funny as a joke, but not really. Today, they're actually much friendlier. I talk to Microsoft engineers at various conferences, and I feel like, yes, they have changed, and the engineers are happy. And they're like really happy working on Linux. So I completely dismissed all the anti-Microsoft stuff."
But that doesn't mean the Microsoft leopard can't change its spots. Sure, he hears, "This is the old Microsoft, and they're just biding their time." But, Torvalds said, "I don't think that's true. I mean, there will be tension. But that's true with any company that comes into Linux; they have their own objectives. And they want to do things their way because they have a reason for it." So, with Linux, "Microsoft tends to be mainly about Azure and doing all the stuff to make Linux work well for them," he explained. Torvalds emphasized this is normal: "I mean, that's just being part of the community." James Bottomley, an IBM Research Distinguished Engineer and top Linux kernel developer, sees Microsoft as going through the same process as all other corporate Linux supporters: "This is a thread that runs through Linux. You can't work on the kernel to your own proprietary advantage. A lot of companies, as they came in with the proprietary business model, assumed they could. They have to be persuaded that, if you want something in Linux, that will assist your business -- absolutely fine. But it has to go through an open development process. And if someone else finds it useful, you end up cooperating or collaborating with them to produce this feature." That means, to get things done, even Microsoft is "eventually forced to collaborate with others."
Bottomley concluded: "So it doesn't matter if Microsoft has a competing agenda to Red Hat or IBM or anybody else. Developers are still expected to work together in the Linux kernel with a transparent agenda."
But that doesn't mean the Microsoft leopard can't change its spots. Sure, he hears, "This is the old Microsoft, and they're just biding their time." But, Torvalds said, "I don't think that's true. I mean, there will be tension. But that's true with any company that comes into Linux; they have their own objectives. And they want to do things their way because they have a reason for it." So, with Linux, "Microsoft tends to be mainly about Azure and doing all the stuff to make Linux work well for them," he explained. Torvalds emphasized this is normal: "I mean, that's just being part of the community." James Bottomley, an IBM Research Distinguished Engineer and top Linux kernel developer, sees Microsoft as going through the same process as all other corporate Linux supporters: "This is a thread that runs through Linux. You can't work on the kernel to your own proprietary advantage. A lot of companies, as they came in with the proprietary business model, assumed they could. They have to be persuaded that, if you want something in Linux, that will assist your business -- absolutely fine. But it has to go through an open development process. And if someone else finds it useful, you end up cooperating or collaborating with them to produce this feature." That means, to get things done, even Microsoft is "eventually forced to collaborate with others."
Bottomley concluded: "So it doesn't matter if Microsoft has a competing agenda to Red Hat or IBM or anybody else. Developers are still expected to work together in the Linux kernel with a transparent agenda."
Trust (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has built up so much distrust over the years from Linux supporters that it's going to take more than a few "friendly engineers" for us to forget the really shitty things they've done in the past.
Anyone else remember the Halloween Documents?
Re:Trust (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone else remember the Halloween Documents?
From 21 years ago? When Microsoft was run by different people, had far more market power, and had a very different strategy?
Yes, I remember.
That you had to reach back that far for an example of evilness says a lot.
Re: (Score:2)
That you had to reach back that far for an example of evilness says a lot.
It was a long time ago, yes. But point was that the level of damage will take more than a few good vibes to undo.
Re: (Score:3)
''It was a long time ago...''
Apparently you haven't had any devices you're responsible for maintaining functionality with a MS OS installed.
People responsible for user's systems that are forced to service MS OSs still feel like a one legged guy in a two legged ass kicking contest. Their mentality of ''all your base all are belong to us'' hasn't ever changed.
It will be even worse when they stop distributing executables.. just wait.
Re:Trust (Score:5, Insightful)
Tricking/forcing people to install Windows 10? Options to disable telemetry which don't disable telemetry? Don't play willfully ignorant. Microsoft has a long history of abuse [wikipedia.org] and nobody who's not aware of it is qualified to comment on this story. You're either completely unqualified, or playing such which is even worse. Which is it?
Re: (Score:2)
Does it matter? As Linus points out, kernel development is set up so that anyone with bad intentions won't get far. If it wasn't then it would have been screwed long ago. Linux would be riddled with security flaws introduced by nations states and full of proprietary crap.
Re: (Score:3)
Does it matter? As Linus points out, kernel development is set up so that anyone with bad intentions won't get far.
Microsoft are only just starting to take Linux seriously. Don't under-estimate what they are capable of doing, they employ some very clever lawyers.
Re: (Score:2)
So to counteract a 21 year old example of anti-competitive practices against Linux you come up with an example that has nothing to do with Linux at all? If anything MS is only abusing its own customers at this point.
Re: (Score:3)
From 21 years ago?
And since then Microsoft has only become more insecure, narcissistic, and desperate. Think of the stagnation in the software industry that Microsoft is solely responsible for. Look around - is what you see something you would call 21 years' worth of technological progress?
Re: (Score:2)
From 21 years ago? When Microsoft was run by different people, had far more market power, and had a very different strategy? ... Yes, I remember.
That you had to reach back that far for an example of evilness says a lot.
Their strategy has changed because the world has changed, not because MS has become nice. They have become nasty in different directions according to present day needs.
What has not changed is the requirement for royalties to be sent to MS every time a consumer grade PC is purchased, instead of pre-installed Windows being an optional extra. Get back to us with your MS apologies when the latter becomes the norm.
Re: (Score:2)
The fish rots from the head, the head hasn't changed much.
Re:Trust (Score:4, Informative)
Or more recently, their pushing of their proprietary documents to try and force out opendocument, their stacking and corruption of the iso process and their bad faith implementation of the opendocument format itself...
Or how about the "get the facts" marketing campaigns designed to slate linux?
They are opening some things up out of necessity, because despite their best efforts linux has become very strong in some markets.
Re: (Score:2)
Or more recently, their pushing of their proprietary documents to try and force out opendocument
Errr. 11 years ago, also a very different Microsoft with an entirely different C-suite and an entirely different business strategy. You're going go have to come up with something actually recent to make that point.
Or how about the "get the facts" marketing campaigns
2003 ... 16 years ago.
Re: (Score:3)
From 21 years ago?
The senior execs who are calling the shots now were working for Microsoft back then. That means that those people are OK with working for a company that behaves like that.
I can't trust such people, it's really that simple.
I remember everything. (Score:5, Insightful)
* Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. E.g. for JavaScript or SQL. ...
* Buying up so many small companies to kill off competition.
* Buying their employees until the company died from it.
* The murders of Netscape, Borland and Nokia (in a vulnerable moment), as notable examples.
* The Sun almost-murder.
* The neverending SCO nightmare.
* The endless FUD and even open hate from Ballmer against Linux.
* All the monopolism, from forcing Windows onto every sold PC to
* making IE the only allowed browser on Windows Phone, the *day* their probation officer left.
* Getting sentenced oh so many times!
* When they "paid" their fine for committing monopolism *in the form of software licenses for schools!!*
* Generally never really paying notable fines, except with the EU in the end.
And even old stuff.
Like where DOS came from (some student),
that they popularized the new concept of paying for software,
where Windows came from (from copying Xerox Alto, MacOS),
where Windows NT came from (thanks to the help by IBM [OS/2]),
what MS Office software was a rip-off of,
their nonconformant SQL "Transact SQL", and "JScript" nightmares,
and what ripped-off standards their incompatible ActiveDirectory is based on.
And thatwas just off the top of my head.
Re: (Score:2)
''* The murders of ......and Nokia''
And for that may we have a moment of silence and pontification over the loss that we will never EVER know the significance of.. [as sad as Erickson].
google it kids.
Re: I remember everything. (Score:2)
Such a bad name that they had to change back to Borland, but it was too late. They had 2/3 of the PC programming languages market all by themselves, and they ended up selling off the programming language products a
Re: I remember everything. (Score:2)
Visual C++ 2.0 killed Borland.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft didn't have much to do with it.
What a load of bullshit. Microsoft had everything to do with Borland's demise.
Microsoft hired away Borland's top engineers [eetimes.com] in an effort to "brain drain" Borland into paralysis. It worked. Borland stagnated while Microsoft developed the next generation of leading Windows development tools.
For example, Anders Hejlsberg [wikipedia.org], the original author of Turbo Pascal and chief architect of Borland's Delphi, ended up working at Microsoft. He developed the J++ programming language, the Windows Foundation Classes, and was t
Re: I remember everything. (Score:2)
And the Halloween Documents ... (Score:3)
And don't forget the Halloween Documents [wikipedia.org] which exposed how Microsoft worked to undermine and malign free software, mainly Linux ...
Re: (Score:3)
* where Windows NT came from (thanks to the help by IBM [OS/2]),
Actually, the Windows NT kernel was a re-implementation of DEC's VAX/VMS, whose design was based on DEC's RSX-11M. All three developments were led by Dave Cutler.
Unleashing Stephen Elop upon Nokia (Score:2)
* The murders of Netscape, Borland and Nokia (in a vulnerable moment), as notable examples.
Vulnerable moment that Microsoft managed to engineer themselves by casting the Stephen Elop plague upon Nokia [blogs.com], I might add.
(As opposed to Netscape which was slowly getting bogged into an overbloated Netscape Communicator 4 and their great plans for an overlong overhaul of Netscape 5/6(*). Of course what mostly killed Netscape was Microsoft leveraging their Windows monopoly to bundle in IE, but they weren't as healthy as when Nokia was making a killing by building a Symbian ecosystem of feature-phone for th
Re: (Score:2)
Like where DOS came from (some student) ......
where Windows NT came from (thanks to the help by IBM [OS/2]),
DOS was written by Tim Paterson of Seattle Comuter Products, not a student. Imfamously, MS bought DOS from SCP at a knock-down price using deception as to the purpose, and then hired Paterson to port it to the IBM PC. Later SCP got an additional financial settlement from MS, but a drop in the ocean compared with what MS made from it.
http://www.patersontech.com/do... [patersontech.com]
There were parts of OS/2 in Win NT, which MS had a right to, but basically it was DEC's VMS. This time MS did not buy it, just stole it, b
Re: (Score:2)
So nothing from the past 15 years then, or nothing from the past 5 years where the company changed entire leadership, cycled many staff, engineers, and took a
dramatic shift in changed corporate strategy. Your grudge borders on the nonsensical.
Re: (Score:2)
The fact that they've failed doesn't change the fact they tried... Intent is very important, thats why things like "attempted murder" are crimes.
Re: (Score:2)
Would you allow someone convicted of attempted rape to spend time alone with your daughter?
The fact it didn't work is not relevant, the fact is that they tried which shows their intent... Given the opportunity, they will try again in a similarly hostile way.
And even tho they failed, they caused a lot of damage and pain for people along the way.
Re: (Score:2)
Linus has no problem because he's covered his back through GPL, which limits their ability to EEE.
So when you come up with a strategy that doesn't work you just flog that dead horse for decades do you?
This is the whole point...
Their initial strategy hasn't worked, so they will try something else - but their ultimate goals and intents remain the same.
Re: (Score:2)
A good, well understood license and the fact of acting in jurisdictions where copyright law is respected mean that trust is not the be all and end all of the relationships.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you think a technology company is gonna think the same way now it did in the 90s and still be in business?
That's an irrelevant argument. Nobody is claiming that Microsoft is doing precisely the same things they are doing before. They are claiming that they are precisely as unscrupulous as they always used to be. And there is no counter-evidence to that.
Look its REALLY simple...the old MSFT wanted to be Apple, the new MSFT wants to be Google...tada! The old MSFT was about selling the brand, just like Cupertino,
Totally false. They were about vendor lock-in, just like Cupertino would have been if they weren't an also-ran which never had more than 11% of the PC market at their peak.
the new MSFT wants to sell your data just like Google is doing as we speak.
[citation needed]
And I hate to break the news to ya Sparky but the OS? Don't mean shit anymore, its all about how much data they can suck down about you and sell to anybody with a buck.
The OS is spyware by definition, and it's part of their spying infrastruct
Re: (Score:1)
I honestly stopped reading his argument after the first ad-hominem attack.
Re: Trust (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Name calling is also considered an ad-hominem attack:
https://www.logicallyfallaciou... [logicallyfallacious.com]
Re: (Score:2)
It's called a logical fallacy for a reason-
There's no fallacious logic involved with insulting someone. Only if you use the insult as a point in your argument, or an attack against theirs does it become fallacious logic.
I would think this would be pretty obvious given the nomenclature.
Wiki. Citations are there. [wikipedia.org]
Association with insults It should also be noted that an ad hominem fallacy occurs when one attacks the character of an interlocutor in an attempt to refute their argument. Insulting someone is not necessarily an instance of an ad hominem fallacy. For example, if one supplies sufficient reasons to reject an interlocutor's argument and adds a slight character attack at the end, this character attack is not necessarily fallacious. Whether it is fallacious depends on whether or not the insult is used as a reason against the interlocutor's argument. An ad hominem occurs when an attack on the interlocutor's character functions as a response to an interlocutor's argument/claim.
Re: Trust (Score:2)
Okay, fine. It isnâ(TM)t ad hominem, I was wrong. But the insults (in both his and your posts) are totally unnecessary.
Re: (Score:2)
You look like you're really reaching.
Re: (Score:3)
They are doing this because they are trying to move into cloud hosting, where linux is dominant...
They are screwing desktop users even worse than before, because they still have a stranglehold over that market.
They only ever play nice when they're in a weak position in a market, if they manage to dominate a market they twist the screws as much as they can, and they try to leverage dominance in one market to dominate another. This has always been their strategy and nothing has changed.
Re: (Score:2)
the new MSFT wants to sell your data just like Google is doing as we speak.
I think you're confused about that, they aren't "selling your data". Google are selling a service that allows you to target certain demographics with advertising. You can't go to Google and just say "sell me all the data you have on Joe Bloggs".
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think that?
The fact that you can't. What makes you think that you can do that?
Everybody has a price. You offer Google more than their price and I bet they suddenly would sell you all the data they have on Joe Bloggs.
But they don't, that's the point. The claim that Google is selling your data is false, that is not their business. Saying they could sell your data is a very different thing. You could murder somebody, should we throw you in jail for that?
Re: (Score:2)
And if MS wasn't controlling the OS and Apps, they get a royal squat's worth of data to pimp.
Re: (Score:2)
will never believe it until (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:will never believe it until (Score:5, Informative)
You do not recall correctly, and in fact that was never the case. Secure Boot works just fine with any key, or can be disabled so it works with no key, IF YOUR DEVICE plays nice.
If you're buying a Windows RT tablet or some other shitpiece, the UEFI may prevent you from loading your own keys. In that case, you need to install an OS or a stub (bootloader) that is signed with an approved key. Every Secure Boot enabled mobo I've ever seen owned given me the option to completely control the keys and disable Secure Boot if I so please.
UEFI isn't the issue, Secure Boot isn't the issue, locked down hardware is the issue. Don't buy locked down hardware. Or, if you cuck yourself with locked down hardware, go find a bootloader signed by an approved key.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: will never believe it until (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, since hardware typically only ships with Microsoft's key, linux distro's must get their bootloader signed by Microsoft in order to boot seamlessly on shipping hardware. But you should be able to sign your build with your own key and install it on your own hardware.
I would prefer Microsoft & linux distro's form a new committee / not for profit, for auditing and signing boot loaders. Including submitting MS's bootloader for external review. But the current process does work.
Re: will never believe it until (Score:2)
Can you name a single device where you canâ(TM)t just disable secure boot in the bios? Every machine with it that I have ever seen it can be easily disabled.
Re: (Score:2)
A summary: Not your secure boot private keys - Not your hardware.
Some ARM devices are already fully locked down - You can't set your private keys. Sadly, this is just a matter of time before we will see the same behavior on the PC market.
Re: will never believe it until (Score:2)
Do you own your iPhone, Android, kindle, playstation, car stereo, washing machine?
Did you know, when you bought them, you couldnâ(TM)t install your own software on those devices without some hackery? If you want your machine to be user-serviceable buy a user-serviceable machine, otherwise stfu.
non-x86 (Score:3)
Can you name a single device where you canâ(TM)t just disable secure boot in the bios? Every machine with it that I have ever seen it can be easily disabled.
Answer: non-x86, non-desktop/workstation/(real)laptop.
The ability to turn-on and -off Secure Boot and to load your own signing keys is only mandatory for UEFI implementations on x86 hardware such as your desktop, workstation or working (true) laptop. /. geek, most of the hardware you encounter (things that you buy as a geek and things you see at your workplace) have no problem at all with Secure Boot.
So as
The problems come with the *other* hardware (the one that you SO is using at home - if you happen to ha
Re: non-x86 (Score:2)
Ok, so youâ(TM)re saying that on historically non-open systems Microsoft is no worse than most other manufacturers? I canâ(TM)t install anything else on my iPhone, or my kindle, or my car stereo.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a baited response, of course you can install other software on your iPhone and some of the Kindle devices, or an Android based car stereo.
Apples for apples (no pun intended), you can't replace the "OS" on those devices - without exploiting some sort of flaw. That is what SecureBoot would stop on x86 if it couldn't be disabled.
Re: (Score:2)
i obviously meant operating system. you can't on those devices unless you jailbreak. microsoft's no different here. most people are more interested in security than being able to tinker, and often restricting the software you can install helps to cover the cost of the hardware - Apple couldn't sell its phones at a loss if it didn't make 30% on the app sales. you _could_ buy a phone that's completely unlocked, that you can install whatever the hell you want on it, but nobody's going to support it because it'
Re: (Score:2)
But you can disable SecureBoot on most UEFI computers and install other operating systems.
So no, Microsoft isn't really any worse than other non-open systems manufacturers in that context. Even a lot of Android devices have locked bootloaders.
Re: (Score:2)
I will never believe it until Secure Boot is opened up
Oh I never realised secure boot is locked down. Certainly it was completely configurable or even disablable by end users on every device I've seen. Even on Microsoft's own Surface devices Secure Boot isn't locked down.
Well, even MS has to hire open-minded people. (Score:2)
Gates and Ballmer are gone. The new crowd is more generic manager people. Who focus more on the topics of their world. Like gaming and "clouds" (not the smoking kind).
Still, of course, the corporate "culture" of a massive corporation has massive intertia.
Let's hope for the best (that it will die down more) and stay vigilant and expect the worst (that it will bubble up again).
In the end, they can even do both: Want to take over, but not in a Microsoft way. They would e.g. only have to hire Poettering, to be
Bill Gates still manages Microsoft. (Score:2)
The last link in this Slashdot comment (The link to Charlie Rose.) shows that Bill Gates still manages Microsoft:
Articles that show Microsoft's VERY poor management. [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's the right attitude to have. (Score:4, Insightful)
No-one says you have to forgive and forget. However, look at the more recent actions from Microsoft - there's been a complete culture change. Ballmer was toxic and I'm glad he's gone.
I believe we need to encourage Microsoft to participate in open source. If they make money from something they contribute to the open source ecosystem under open source and / or permissive licensing, we're all winning - they get something and we get something. They see at as viable and continue to contribute more.
The Microsoft hate is getting old.
Re: (Score:2)
However, look at the more recent actions from Microsoft - there's been a complete culture change.
Yes, it's very different. Now they aren't only incompetent, they're also distributing malware.
Re: (Score:2)
Like I said, the MS hate is getting old.
Remember when Ubuntu shipped a bunch of Amazon crap baked into their desktop? Or how they continued to push Unity even though a lot of people weren't happy with it? What about the uproar in many communities over systemd?
Anyone can make dumb mistakes, not just "big bad" Microsoft - just happens to be a lot more noticeable given their marketshare.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Like I said, the MS hate is getting old.
Boo. Fucking. Hoo. Cry me a river of bitchery.
Remember when Ubuntu shipped a bunch of Amazon crap baked into their desktop?
That you could easily remove, you mean? Oh noes!!!!!!!!1!1
Or how they continued to push Unity even though a lot of people weren't happy with it?
Also irrelevant, since they continued to distribute multiple other desktop environments.
What about the uproar in many communities over systemd?
The uproar over that is because it makes Linux more like a Microsoft OS.
Anyone can make dumb mistakes, not just "big bad" Microsoft - just happens to be a lot more noticeable given their marketshare.
Telemetry is not a mistake. It is intentionally distributed malware. Microsoft apologists are dumb as fuck. That means you.
Re: (Score:1)
Says the ignorant Freetard. I use MS products and I use Linux.
I pick the best tool for the job without letting some elitist freetard bias getting in the way.
Re: (Score:2)
I pick the best tool for the job without letting some elitist freetard bias getting in the way.
I note you did not rebut a single one of my arguments. That's because you don't have any rebuttal. Now run along, the adults are having a conversation about convicted monopoly abusers and willful distributors of malware, and how they're still assholes.
Re: (Score:2)
I guarantee that if you kill yourself, you will feel much better. Please try it.
Did your mother have any children that lived?
Re: (Score:2)
Like I said, the MS hate is getting old.
It's old because the shit started coming from them a long time ago. But it's still coming today.
What is getting old is Linus Torvalds. It's time for a new kernel lead developer.
Re: (Score:3)
The Microsoft hate is getting old.
Microsoft's abuses are getting old. Get pissed at them for causing the hate, not for people who are responding to being abused.
Go ahead and try to tell me they have turned a new leaf. Windows 10 says you would be a liar if you said that. AND, Windows 10 is current, not twenty years ago.
It's a sad day... (Score:2, Interesting)
... When Linus Torvalds becomes a paid Microsoft shill.
Re: It's a sad day... (Score:3)
Quick! Jump ship to FreeBSD before it dies!
Torvalds Doesn't Care (Score:2, Interesting)
Torvalds isn't worried because he no longer cares. He checked out officially when he let the code of conduct bullshit infect Linux.
Wake up, losers. Your heroes have aged out. Carmack, for example, latched on to VR (a dead fad already), moved to Oculus, and is now a Facebook zombie.
Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame? He's now operating the largest scam outside of Washington DC, and he's calling it Star Citizen.
Homer Simpson was right. Don't trust anyone over 30.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Linus, RMS and others all checked out years ago. Its all been on auto pilot for a while.
Linus, if you're reading this, remember:
Embrace
.
.
Extend
.
----- we are here
.
Extinguish
It's just a matter of time now. Microsoft has sunk deep into all of the OSS projects, purchased their means of distribution (github) and is fervently fucking with all of the lead developers, all the
Re: Torvalds Doesn't Care (Score:2)
... and the worms ate into his brain...
Re: (Score:2)
Hey idiot, look at the little list I made. We haven't gotten to the extinguish part yet. Then again if you had any fucking intelligence at all you wouldn't be posting as anon
Re: (Score:2)
Some day you'll be over 30 yourself, moron. And then you'll get it. And, like most people over 30, you'll look back, and shake your head at the clueless, idealistic, delusional fucking kid that you were.
Watching you kids is painful. It's like watching little eight year olds who think their are sooooo clever and soooooo "grown up". It's pathetic.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
My impression for quite a while is that Linus doesn't give a damn about anything outside the kernel, because it's not his problem. I appreciate the work he's done for the world, but really, I have a hard time trusting any of his opinions and predictions.
I think Microsoft won't control the kernel, but the rest of the infrastructure is fair game. Currently, it's a massive clusterfuck, and it won't take much for a few blowhards to swoop in and start "standardizing" things, which effectively gives them contro
Standardizing (Score:3)
Currently, it's a massive clusterfuck, and it won't take much for a few blowhards to swoop in and start "standardizing" things, which effectively gives them control of the platform.
Or, Lennart Poettering could do his thing and swallow the whole Microsoft (the whole company and its eco-system) into a microsoftctl submodule of systemd.
You never now.
MS merely moved their cannon aim (Score:5, Insightful)
How long will that last? Roughly a decade ago MS decided that their future was in services, networking infrastructure, and cloud (SNIC). While OS and desktop are still cash cows, MS forecasts these revenue streams will gradually dwindle.
So far their SNIC plan is paying off. That means they have little incentive to get into an OS war. However, in the future if SNIC fails to deliver for whatever reason, they may turn back to their old battles, including Windows vs. Linux.
Therefore, I don't necessarily believe that MS is inherently "friendlier", it's just that Linux is not directly in the way of their current plans. In a practical sense, yes, currently they are friendlier to Linux than in the past. But I'm not convinced they simply shed some evil.
If the dragon is currently busy spewing flames on other knights, enjoy the respite while it lasts.
Re: (Score:2)
They've already lost the strangehold on their users, at the start of 2012 mobile had 8.67% market share on StatCounter. At the end of 2016, it was at 48.33%. There are some areas where Windows is extremely dominant like their 96% market share of Steam users, but a whole lot of people would be fine without any Windows exclusive applications. More and more back-end services run on Linux, even Microsoft has more Linux than Windows servers on Azure and it's probably more skewed elsewhere. And if you want to del
Re: (Score:2)
not directly in the way of their current plans
If you actually believe the increasingly diverse OS market is a future profit centre in a world where PCs are getting ever less relevant then I don't at all believe you have a grasp on business strategy.
Torvald is just an insignificant detail (Score:1)
Torvald is overestimating the importance of himself.
What happens in the kernel really isn't that important anymore as it was 10 years ago.
The real battle is about what's put on top of it.
It isn't Microsoft who we should be watching,
it's those sneaky people from SystemD.
Goes both way. (Score:2)
It isn't Microsoft who we should be watching,
it's those sneaky people from SystemD.
On the other hand, Microsoft should be also watching Lennart Poettering themselves.
Given the track record of the guys, they might wake up one morning and realise that they (The whole company) has been trapped inside "systemd-microsoft".
Microsoft? Change? (Score:2)
Nope. People forget how closely they worked with IBM, and then shafted them big time.
That even given IBMâ(TM)s fearsome legal people.
Take it as a given, that Microsoft will shaft GNU/Linux when they feel the moment is right.
No one cares about desktop operating systems (Score:2)
Torvalds isn't worried about it because NO ONE cares about desktop operating systems. Neither Microsoft, Google, Apple or Torvald care about desktop operating systems as they have become merely a shell between the hardware and a web browser.
All the development has switched to cloud platforms on the back-end and web browsers and javascript frameworks on the front-end. Microsoft is focused on its Azure Cloud platform, it's practically giving away Windows these days.
Another thing to look out for is Typescrip
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft is focused on its Azure Cloud platform, it's practically giving away Windows these days.
OK where do I download a "practically" free copy of Windows. I need one in a VM for scam baiting.
Why would he care? (Score:2)
GPL protects nothing (Score:2)
Not worried because the kernel is protected by the GPL license?
It doesn't protect it from anything, it will only help in keeping the source code open.
MS can fork the kernel and take it whatever direction they want.
And they would have the power to make their 'linux' more popular than the original if they wanted to do that.
Imagine Ubuntu, but 100x worse and a budget that has no end.
It doesn't matter at that point that us geeks would still use the original linux kernel/distro's, we would be a minority again.
Th
Re: (Score:2)
Not worried because the kernel is protected by the GPL license? It doesn't protect it from anything, it will only help in keeping the source code open.
Indeed. MS will make mincemeat of the GPL with its lawyers and its deep pockets.
Re: (Score:2)
Then a CoC for the end users.
Linus Isn't Worried? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Linux community should never, under any circumstances, trust Microsoft.
M$ is a linux company (Score:2)
"Follow the money":
- Azure has surpassed windows / office revenue somwhere around march 2019.
- They double in growth every 12 months (!)
- 70% of Azure workloads are linux tendency rising.
I.e. at this point Microsoft makes more Money with Linux / OpenSource software than with its own products.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're poisoning the well, but oh well.
Microsoft's continuing business practices include requiring PC vendors to preinstall Windows on every PC as a condition of getting any Windows licenses.
Their current OS includes the exact same kind of code (with corresponding click-through agreements) that I used to install anti-spyware programs to search for and remove back when I used Windows.
Yes, Microsoft has changed--but not enough.
When Linus says Linux, he means the kernel (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure that Linus is only concerned about the kernel when he says Microsoft is not a danger. And he's probably right in that sense. Microsoft has made its peace with Linux servers. Azure, if not already, is going to be majority Linux in the future. And Windows10 has that linux command-line add-on to try to keep developers on Windows desktops.
But the Linux desktop is still very much in Microsoft's crosshairs - or at least there's no evidence that it's not. Sure, the FAT patent (expired? near e
Re: (Score:2)
It's really a competition between MS and google now. In losing the mobile platform, it appears that MS is now looking at a software first strategy with a longer term goal of being platform agnostic. Considering some comments around their adoption of android for their newly revealed phone, it appears that their business strategy is looking at a future after windows.
Meanwhile in google land, the once champions of open source have seen that they need to be using their ownership of the platform to their advanta
Has Microsoft stopped being abusive? (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft's new small print -- how your personal data is (ab)used [edri.org]
Quoting: "Summing up these 45 pages, one can say that Microsoft basically grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write with and on your devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties. The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent 'or as necessary' ".
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC."
Has Microsoft stopped being abusive? No. (Score:2)
Has Microsoft stopped being abusive or incredibly badly managed? Updates to Windows 10 often cause problems.
Warnings Issued For Millions Of Microsoft Windows 10 Users [forbes.com] (Oct. 5, 2019, 3 days ago)
Re: (Score:2)
In addition, North Korea and South Korea will peacefully merge and Donald Trump will post a thoughtful post on twitter where he resigns for the good of the country.
That's in addition to Microsoft being a good friend to Linux you mean, and Pol Pot being bestowed with sainthood.
Re: (Score:2)
Linus has almost never been wrong. If he's not worried? I'm not.
I take that as an attempt at humour. Mods : tag this as "Funny".
Re: (Score:2)
Last four or five years, the major linux distros I've used are horrible which idle with 15Gig of ram
Bollocks. I just checked out of interest (KDE on Debian, several apps running) and I'm using 5.5Gb